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TBH inquest – Porntip sure not suicide

Otw 2ShahAlam 4TeohBengHock inquest mired by controversy over last-minute appearance of yr-long TBH note. Porntip 2testify after 2nd autopsy
08/18/2010 08:48 AM

Air of expectancy in ct. Waiting 4coroner’s apprnce. Porntip here. Also Karpal Gobind MalikImtiaz TBH fmly members. Porntip shd open inquest
08/18/2010 09:25 AM

Coroner enters court 2start today’s inquest proceeding
08/18/2010 09:28 AM

Porntip recalled 2witness box.
08/18/2010 09:31 AM

Porntip again takes oath. Examined by MalekImtiaz counsel 4 Selangor govt
08/18/2010 09:33 AM

Porntip referred 2her testimony of 21st Oct lastyr, abt TBH’s wounds which looked like from beatings n not compatible from fall from heigh
08/18/2010 09:38 AM

And her conclusion tt probability of TBH’s death from homicide 80% suicide 20% but needed re-autopsy 2b sure. She confirmed.
08/18/2010 09:42 AM

Porntip being questioned on 2nd autopsy of TBH.
08/18/2010 09:44 AM

Porntip’s conclusion from 2nd TBH autopsy: body well-preserved in the area of the bone. Body sufficiently preserved to arrive at conclusion
08/18/2010 09:52 AM

Neck haemorhage but ruled out manual strangulation appeared 2b caused by direct hit by blunt object with bigger force or weight
08/18/2010 10:03 AM

Porntip does not rule out tt TBH may have lost consciousness in the fall
08/18/2010 10:08 AM

P of opinion TBH unconscious during fall as there is no pathology to show he was conscious
08/18/2010 10:15 AM

P disagreed w British pathologist Peters on cause of neck wound n tt TBH was conscious n had tried 2break fall landing on feet. Gave grounds
08/18/2010 10:25 AM

P – having examined body in a second autopsy she is sure it is not a case of suicide
08/18/2010 10:46 AM

Malek finishes n Gobind takes over questioning.
08/18/2010 10:51 AM

Asked by Gobind, P said if a note is found accompanying death police must examine DNA n fingerprint n not just handwriting.
08/18/2010 10:55 AM

MACC counsel Razak attacked Porntip saying she graduated from Mahidol University Thailand which is not recognised in Msia. She said Mahidol is top5 in Asia
08/18/2010 11:07 AM

Razak accused Porntip of speculation taking sides which drew her response she is not testifying 4Selangor or Msian govts but for the dead.
08/18/2010 11:14 AM

52 Replies to “TBH inquest – Porntip sure not suicide”

  1. Wah lau, dat dumb Razak another musang tried 2 insult Dr Porntip’s qualification
    He no knows Mahidol University’s reputation
    n standing
    Don’t play play with Mahidol University leh

    “I work for the rights of the dead, not the Selangor government,” said Porntip
    Very cheem ooh, Razak musang mana can understand 1?

  4. After suicide note, the AG is going to produce a statutory declaration by TBH that he indeed jumped down on his own. It appears that the SD was written and signed in mid-air, moments before his body hit the ground.

  5. A lawyer who resorted to stupid & unrelated personal attacks on a witness, when the case at hand is the mysterious death of TBH! Can you imagine that? A LAWYER….. doing that. This can only happen in m’sia.

    That’s the problem with this case here. Any smart lawyer… actually any qualified lawyer with a moderate intelligence would NEVER accept the job to represent MACC in court after reviewing the facts.

    So only dumb lawyers would take up this job. Dumb lawyers who don’t even know where to look in a stack of evidence. Dumb lawyers who can’t understand the implications of the evidence presented. Dumb lawyers who don’t even know how to handle a trial. Dumb lawyers who were awarded lavish scholarships to overseas law schools though he fared miserably in his SPM.

  6. Razak where do u graduate from?People like u should be fit for the tong sampah and consider yourself to be lucky to land a job in MACC.Dr Porntip maybe from Thailand BUT from her credentials and her forensic expertise are world renounced not like our backyard so called experts.Whatever happens all of us can easily predict the outcome of the final verdict from the our lopsided judiciary system here because this is Bolehland and everything can be make possible.

  8. Every human who’re not brain dead are certain to believe that TBH case is not a suicide one.
    Macc have already given us the hints now and then and what’s more do we need.
    The witholding of documents, the non existence recording on that fateful day and the suicide note at the last minute clearly showed conspiracy involved.
    Getting Porntip to prove it will not do any good either as the law here are actually not any law at all.
    They’re only rules that are made to follow and judges are only put up there just for a show.
    Even an ordinary kid can outdo any professional lawyer in court cases and
    it depend entirely on which side you’re.
    Evidence could be treated as non evidence while a fake could even be treated as a real one.
    What’s more than that!
    Problem will be that this ongoing trial were be going to be a long one, until the day someone gets real bored and tired that the case will finally be thrown out.

  9. Truth for TBH! another pipe dream… ‘they’ are piping off that dream.

    To those involved, look at this : ‘One day you have to anwer the malaikat, alone, no slective memory, whole truth…. can you die with this? nanti malaikat pukul, faham?”

  11. Dr Pornthip said the two pathologists who conducted the first post mortem did not open the skin at the site of the anal injury to determine the nature of the tear. This was done during the second post-mortem, she said.

    Our own stupid pathologists dunno how to do their work, and yet stupid Razak still wanna question Dr Pornthip’s qualification!!!

    Razak , I have a question whether you are a lawyer or not!!!

  13. Where did this Razak come from?

    Stooopid, 24 years in law and he asked Dr Pornthip why her “findings” in just one(1) sheet of paper!
    – dumb Q! Does a big file demonstrate one’s expertise and capability to tackle a job well? LOL!!!

    and he went further:

    “I spent three days reading. If you say blunt object, where is the weapon?”
    – what a Jackass, if the weapon had been found, is there a need to unnecessarily prolong this Inquest?

  14. I think the lawyer needs to watch the Astro channel 314 @7pm and learn from the ‘lawyers’ how to question and present evidences to win a case. But too bad, the series finished liao. But.. nvm, astro got recording package if you subscribe one…

  15. Now what ? Two government pathologists say it’s not murder. The British “expert” also says it’s not murder. Porntip says it’s not suicide. Where do we go from here ?

    Coroner issues “open” verdict….and life goes on except for the one which has been taken.

  17. How can our MCCA rotten lawyer brushing off Thai expert by claiming that her degree and expert is not recognized by Malaysia, ONLY this time??? The fact is she more qualified than those HP6 in our Bolehland!

    [deleted]

    I’m waiting for another cooked up sh*t to be announced soon. This is Bolehland. Apa-apa macham pun-Boleh! In other nations, any government officers, civil servants and politicians found misleading and lying to the public must be resigned without fuss…

  18. Malaysia top university is rubbish. I know a phd from UM, he spends more time on his facebook than doing his research work. He has the latest i7 Intel PC which was bought by UM, our tax payer money. He also receives monthly allowance of RM3000 per month. Worst thing about him is that he knows nothing about his work. This person I knew is a Chinese. I guess UM intentionally gave scholarship to this student who is ‘below’ par so that he could match the rest of the majority. Now, I felt ashame when Razak asked Pontip about her qualification!!

  19. Pornthip 2 Razak: U graduate of apa nama univ?
    Got GD or got Honours or not? What class?
    Consulted 4 other governments or not?
    English OK aah? Took 3 days 2 read my report?
    Consulted Lingam? Correct, correct, correct?

  20. Qualification not recognised in malaysia huh? Then consider this. If A dies in say china and a chinese doctor there certified the death is A dead? No. According to cintanegara’s beloved umno the certificate is not acceptable because it was issued by a certain unrecognised chinese doctor. So A is still alive and kicking, cintanegara would say! And can A’s family members give factual testimony as to A’s death; that he has since been reduced to ashes and no longer has any whatsoever meaningful existance? Again no. Because A’s family members are not qualified. They possess no qualification at all unless amongst them is a recognised doctor.

    Errr can A still vote in GE 13 then? Certainly!

    Jib Jib Boleh.

  22. Let’s have a recap what MACC said when they were damn blardy sure Porntip will not be testifying due to you-know-who’s political pressure:

    “Wednesday April 14, 2010
    ‘Pornthip must testify to ensure justice’
    By JOSHUA FOONG
    [email protected]

    PUTRAJAYA: The Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) wants Thai forensic pathologist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand to give her statement in the Teoh Beng Hock inquest to ensure justice is done to both the family as well as to the MACC.

    The commission said the pathologist need not fear for her safety during the inquest, which resumes on April 20, as the Malaysian Government including the Home Ministry, Attorney-General and the police had guaranteed her safety.

    “She should be present to ensure justice is done to both the family and the MACC,” the commission said in a statement.

    Dr Pornthip, who was engaged by the Selangor government to give her expert opinion in the inquest into Teoh’s sudden death on July 15 last year, was reported by an online news portal last Sunday as saying that she had pulled out from testifying because of “political pressure” that could affect her work in southern Thailand.

    The director-general of the Bangkok-based Central Institute of Forensic Science, Dr Pornthip had in October last year told the inquest that she was “80% certain” that Teoh’s death was a homicide.

    Her claim led to Teoh’s body being exhumed for a second post-mortem. ”

    So, MACC, don’t let me hear one freaking word from you people condemning Porntip’s testimony.

    My greatest respect for this gutsy lady who really made the effort to help the dead seek justice despite being politically pressured and stepping out of her comfort zone into a danger zone.

  23. Pornthip has to respond that Mahidol University from where she graduated, is among the the top five universities in Asia. That is certainly better than the universities in Malassia, and so Pornthip is not less qualified than the three pathologists who held opposite opinion.

    MACC counsel Razak said that Malaysia operates on majority basis. To him, there is no question of right or wrong, where science is concerned and majority wins. It is possible to have MACC expert witnesses who could claim that the earth is flat, and so it will be flat and accepted by MACC court. Wonder whether the judge decides based on probable truth or majority opinion.

  24. If the government wants to come clean on this TBH case.The best thing to do is get the real killer. With this then you can win the hearts of Malaysians.
    __________________________________________
    Rahmanwang,

    This is no drug addict case!
    It’s a very high profile case involving big shots.
    If the real killer is handed out, he would expose everyone out, including u know who!

  25. Oh! oh! oh! cik razak….cik razak. Nak memalukan orang lain tepi sekarang sendiri kena kau kau. Lain kali kalau nak tunjuk kepintaran kamu, dahulu pastikan kamu berdepan dengan siapa. Itu Pornthip terkenal diseluruh dunia ( household name ) Awak razak apa, razak dari mana, razak dikenali siapa. Sekarang nak simpan muka engkau dimana?

  26. Pornthip said that TBH did not commit suicide. TBH died from a fall, and he did not jump because he was unconscious at that time. It is clear that it was homicide, and it was conducted in the premise of MACC. The head of MACC would be responsible to get the murderer(s) for justice to be served.

    MACC counsel Razak said that only Pornthip but not the other four pathologists noticed the ‘evidence’ which confirmed her opinion that the injuries were inflicted on TBH before his fall, and that TBH was unconscious at the time he fell. Dr Peter Venezis might be excused for not noticing the crucial evidence because he was only an observer during the second autopsy. But the other pathologists were involved in the first autopsy and they should have seen the crucial evidence if they had been performed professionally to determine the cause of death. It could be possible for them to ignore the evidence if such evidence present problems to them to accomplish the mission to conclude that TBH killed himself. It is difficult to prove oneself to be competent if he is not well trained, but it would be a simple matter to pretend to be incompetent .

  27. The whole malaysia people are watching.. No one can hide the truth. The more the government want to hide it, the more it will be revealed.

    Itu Pornthip terkenal diseluruh dunia ( household name ) Razak itu apa? shame on him.

  28. Pornthip highlighted d lack of proper professional SOP in handling d suicide note
    Incompetent IO n AG just kept d note
    Did not declare d note 4 proper custody n record of chain of custody
    No checking of fingerprints n DNA, only tampering of evidence
    Incompetent fools trying 2 fool d rakyat

    Our local forensic pathologists did not come out as experts at all in dis case
    Their examinations n conclusions were NOT accurate n correct, pua tang jui
    We must DEMAND all previous death cases examined by them b RE-EXAMINED by real experts 2 find d truth leading 2 death, ie, CAUSE of death

  29. Thong ping sian lian. Translated it means: people struck by the same disease understand each other best. They sympathize and help each other. Justice for TBH will be late in coming; when PR take over the Federal Government

  30. I am going to make this very clear.
    Mahidul University is ranked at 28th in Asia, while Malaysia’s top university lied ‘proudly’ at 42nd.
    So, he proudly said that Mahidul University is not recognised in Malaysia. I don’t want to, but I just can’t resist myself to say that this is the MOST ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
    Let us see IF something that happened to TBH was repeated with Rancak and family, let us see if he will be able to make a foolish statement like this.
    By the way, Dr Pornthip doesn’t works for Selangor, she works for JUSTICE for the DEAD. She is prominent worldwide for bringing out justice from cases she solved, BUT somehow, out of ‘something’, she was deemed to be unqualified in Bolehland.

  31. This is what I read from other blog, just joke:

    Razak: Do you know how long it takes for Teoh to fall from the 14th floor?.

    Pornthip: You are the lawyer acting like MACC, suggest you jump and count?

    Razak: 2 minutes! you don’t even know that, how do you run the autopsy?

    Pornthip: How could you be that sure? Did you fall that before?

    Razak: I do not need, my MACC officer recorded that during Teoh’s fall!.

    Pornthip : 24 years with MACC! you surely act like one!.

    Razak: Are you insulting me?

    Pornthip: No! it is a compliment to MACC.

  33. cseng :
    This is what I read from other blog, just joke:
    Razak: Do you know how long it takes for Teoh to fall from the 14th floor?.
    Pornthip: You are the lawyer acting like MACC, suggest you jump and count?
    Razak: 2 minutes! you don’t even know that, how do you run the autopsy?
    Pornthip: How could you be that sure? Did you fall that before?
    Razak: I do not need, my MACC officer recorded that during Teoh’s fall!.
    Pornthip : 24 years with MACC! you surely act like one!.
    Razak: Are you insulting me?
    Pornthip: No! it is a compliment to MACC.

    This shows that rotten lawyer of NEP byproducts! Keep up Bloehland! Unprofessional questions! Laughing and almost falling out of my chair…..

  34. Her Institution is rated 5th in Asia and our Universities cannot make it to the top 500 in Asia alone….

    God…we are a banana republic and Razak fellow has a banana degree as is allowed to be DPP…..Malaysia has made a complete fool of themselves when it comes to credibility….

    I think Razak fellow better sell goreng pisang and Shahidan run a banana plantation….

    One way or the other, this government has to go…otherwise Malaysians will be seen as gutless fools all over the world…

  36. Thinking of razak’s behaviour at the TBH inquest, my mind wanders to my primary school days. There was this Malay school mate whose father was a JP ( Justice of the Peace ). Everytime he was teased or could not out-talk other boys he would ‘bring’ out his father: ”My father JP, your father what”? When they said ”jaga pintu,” this manja kid would threaten to bring his father ”tomorrow”

    Razak is like that little boy. I can envisage a rude and spoilt brat telling Pornthip: ”My father UMNO, your father what”?

  38. Another joke from another blog, (Joke only):

    Razak: I will prove to the court that you lie! Your grounds are all wrong.

    Pornthip: I based on scientific evident, fact, no fantasy! Like 2mins to sustain a fall from 14th floor.

    Razak : 2 min, that is what it takes to prove you wrong!. Remember the note, why it is relevant before you testify today? We Macc have a protocol!, a strict protocol to record in/out of MACC premises, even the window!. We clocked 2 mins, free fall took 5-6 second the most! the rest is how long it took for TBH to sign on it. That’s enough to prove you wrong!

    Pornthip : I am impressed but shocked!

    Razak: Shocked? Now, I put it to you, the 2min logic has proved you wrong? Scientific or not, it is wrong!. Do you agree?

    Pornthip : Disagree, evident never lie!
    Razak: Do you want to have a test with our MACC protocol? To agree upon! evident? We have plenty including the note.

    Pornthip: No, you have what it takes to prove me wrong!. 24 years of experience in Malaysian court, did make you a great lawyer!

  40. Whether a person is dead or otherwise, whether a person has sustanined injury and the nature of the injury and the most probable cause of the injury are all questions of fact which anyone who is sufficiently or suitably experienced can ascertained. For eg, your child is crying and his little finger is bleeding. And you noticed a neat straight wound. We may not be doctors but from experience we can conclude that the wound was probably due to a cut from something sharp. Experts in court need not necessarily possess qualification but they must certainly satisfy the court that they possess the necessary knowledge. So you see an experience car mechanic can very well testify in court as expert on matters relating to his field of work (ie as to the condition of a car engine) even though he is not an engineer or has any engineering qualification.

    But I think we better have a word with prontip. Did she eat any rambutans lately and if so where did she get them from? This is crucial.

  45. Since Dr. Porntip has concluded that Teoh did not die of suicide, Teoh’s family has every good reason to push for a Royal Commission Inquiry.
    _________________________________________

    Beleive me!
    It will be a very long process and after that, back to square one.
    Why take so much hassle?
    Put our brain to work and make every effort for PR to govern in the next GE.
    Spread all the news out to our friends in Sabah and Sarawak and to every corners, including the jungle.
    Let every one knows, even if it’s an elephant, tiger or monkey.
    Let’s beat the “war drum” now!
    We need to get Karpal as our Chief Justice and Gobind to be our AG.
    [deleted]
    Tell it the world that we will make it and make it as a responsibility to each and every one of us.
    Indons have done it, Fillipinos have done it and even Taiwan have done it so why not we???
    We need to show others that we are not the ” Sicko of Asia”.
    We’ve got less than one and half year to do and we’re not going to let TBH and others died in vain.

  49. It is very telling when Porntip pointed out that TBH had no fractured wrist which he would likely have if the was concious during the fall because it is natural human instinct to try to break the fall with the hands. My wife fell down a few flights of stairs and she fractured her left wrist when she tried to break her fall with her hands. A young woman in the hospital bed next to my wife’s had BOTH wrist fractured when she fell from a short ladder. So it is not possible to escape a fractured wrist if TBH was concious and falling from the 14th floor. He has to be unconcious when he went out that window. Which begs the question: How could he went out the window on his own if he was not concious? No need to look further, Coroner.

  50. TBH could not be both conscious and unconscious at the same time during the fall. The two pathologists who conducted the first autopsy said TBH was conscious. They did neither comment on the injuries to TBH’s neck nor on the evidence that TBH suffered from cerebral edema before the fall which was caused by a stoppage of at least 5-minute in the supply of oxygen to the brain. Dr Peter Venezis, the pathologist who investigated Princess Diana death did not rule out that TBH was unconscious during the fall. Thus the two Malaysian pathologists did not do thorough job in the autopsy.

    Pornthip said that TBH did not commit suicide. TBH was injured before his death. It is MACC’s duty to investigate who among the officials on duty that night who caused bodily harm to TBH, prior to throwing him out of the window. It is most probable that MCAA officials used force on TBH to make TBH say what these officials wanted to hear. Sensing that TBH could not regain consciousness, they chose to cause confusion by throwing or dropping TBH from the high floor knowing that TBH would not survive the fall.

    The police knew very well that unless TBH could be said to have committed suicide, somebody in MACC’s employ would have to answer for homicide. The two pathologists confirmed that they conducted the autopsy on instruction from the police which was to search for supporting justifications to conclude that TBH had committed suicide. That revelation is shocking as the terms of reference of pathologists should be to seek truth based on evidence. The directive given by the police to the pathologists shows that the police was biased and that it wanted only to show that MACC was not responsible. The police can wish MACC well, but it is against rule of law to obstruct justice.

    Pornthip commented that if there should be any written document left in connection with a death, evidence of any third party finger prints could point to foul play. It is most ridiculous that the note was said to have been found two months after the incident, rather than immediately after the event, if it ever existed. Now the AG and the police owe the nation an explanation why the police could not use the so-called not to hunt for murderer but chose to use it to shield MACC from answerable to the crime. Incompetence among the police and the AG offices might be of a lesser evil. The worst is the police and the AG are seen to be in collusion in using their authority to cover up crimes committed by staff in their employ. Nobody would think that it was the head of MACC who wanted TBH dead. Why is the whole government machinery trying to cover up a crime committed by one or more of the operatives in MACC, as though the position of Najib is under attack? No government in the world would stake its reputation to prevent justice the way MACC and police together with the AG office tried to make a homicide look like suicide.

  51. Prior to the 43rd day of the inquest into the death of TBH, video recordings of the proceedings were available to the public over the internet. Anyone could go to the agc.gov.my website and download the videos to view at their leisure.
    However, inexplicably, after the gaffes by MACC lawyer Abdul Razak Musa, there are no more updates!
    Is this because the AG’s Chamber is SO ASHAMED of the conduct and performance of Abdul Razak Musa’s cross-examination of Dr Pornthip, that the videos are no longer to be made available?
    IF this is the reason (there may be other alternative reasons, eg ‘technical’, ‘unforseen’, ‘Act of God’, ‘need to verify authenticity first’, ‘too busy bonking’ etc) THEN it only serves to bolster the perception of the public that the government is good at hiding what it does not want others to see!
    I do hope that this is NOT the case.

    Read this story in TheStar first:
    bit(dot)ly(slash)99tTu4

    This is the link to the
    “Inquest of Teoh Beng Hock Videos”
    bit(dot)ly(slash)cfPiJp

  52. If Razak is challenging the acceptance of DR Porntip testimony, should Malek and Gobind take the stand from the court?

    In the lawyer assaulting clients case in Penang with photos taken during the incidents both by the clients and the lawyer’s son and staffs, Police and AG failed to come up with an investigation report and AG silent. Police and AG are in concert to breach their duty and obstructing Justice!! Police had not gone to the site when Police was called or report was made and they advised that they had not taken Statement from the Lawyer and have problem in getting the lawyer’s son for statement!!
    Nothing from the Staffs nor the Neighbours watching the incident!!

    Can Justice be accounted by Police and AG in this country?
    Even GH is trying to stay away from present blood pressure data of the victim!!

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