By Dr Chen Man Hin, DAP Life Advisor
PM NAJIB RAZAK MUST FULFILL HIS PROMISE TO FIND THE TRUTH BEHIND THE DEATH OF TEOH BENG HOCK IN MACC HEADQUARTERS.
CORONER INQUEST NOT THE SOLUTION
The explanation by AG Abdul Gani Patail for a coroner inquest, is an insult to the intelligence of the people. his statement gave the reasons why there has to be a coroner’s inquest besides having a commission of inquiry into the death of TBH, a political aide to a selangor exco member.
Every educated person knows that an inquest is imperative in a case of sudden death from unknown causes in ordinary cases but the case of TBH is no ordinary case. The circumstances of his death in a government building with tight security, point to the conclusion that MACC officers are involved in one way or another.
MACC is a government institution. In such a situation an inhouse panel is out of the question. You can’t have a government officer or officers to be impartial, when investigating the death of TBH where high and topmost officialdom are implicated.
A coroner inquest panel is an inhouse panel with government officers and they are likely to be sympathetic to their own kind, and impossible to be impartial.
The investigating panel has got to be fully independent and free from government officers. The coroner and his panel therefore cannot qualify to investigate the case of TBH.
Immediately on his return from mecca, PM Najib promised there would be a royal commission to find out the truth relating to the death of TBH.
The royal commission with qualified independent persons will be transparent, accountable and competent to weed out the truth behind the death, and do a better more reliable job than a coroner’s inquest.
The AG Ghani Patail can quote the criminal procedure code as much as he wants, but this is irrelevant, because what is lacking with a coroner’s inquest, are independence and impartiality.
AS FOR THE ROYAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY (RCI), AG GHANI PATAIL SAID “THAT THE RCI IS RIGHTLY AND LAWFULLY FORMED FOR THE PURPOSE OF INQUIRING INTO THE PROCEDURAL ASPECTS OF THE MALAYSIAN ANTI CORRUPTION COMMISSION IN CARRYING OUT THE INVESTIGATIONS.”
Here he is so wrong again. The RCI is not meant to study the standard operating procedures (SOP) of the MACC.
The RCI formed of prominent upright citizens with great experience will enquire into all aspects related to the death of TBH, which has evoked wide interest among the people in Malaysia and in Asean countries.
The mysterious circumstances of his death will be investigated. How is it possible that a healthy young man could enter the MACC headquarters alive, and alert for questioning at 5 pm, could end up dead and cold, when his body was found on the roof the 5th floor of MACC headquarter at 1.30pm the next day?
How did he die? Was the death due to a fall from the window of the 14th floor? Was the body alive at the time of the fall? Was he already dead before the fall?
Why did he die? He held the job of a political secretary. Why was the interrogation so long, sources say for 8 hours. What secrets did he have to warrant such a prolonged questioning?
What was the nature of questioning? Were the tactics similar as those employed by the Kempetai (Japanese secret police) during the Occupation?
Why were only opposition exco officials suspected and accused of corruption? Why were Barisan excos left alone?
TBH was alleged to be involved in misuse of RM2400, and was grilled for 8 hours. He died because of RM2400?
Why did MACC not investigate the former MB of Selangor, although he owns and stays in a RM24 million mansion?
Is MACC involved in a grand conspiracy to destroy the reputation of the leaders of Party Rakyat with false allegations of corruption?
Who were the people behind this grand conspiracy? MACC was meant to be an independent body but is obviously obeying orders from some high source. Who are the masters of MACC?
These questions and many more are the reasons why the people are insisting on a Royal Commision of Enquiry, and not for problems of standard operation procedures (SOP) as alleged by the Attorney General.
The mysterious death of TBH has raised vital issues of the question of integrity, honesty and discipline of our institutions. MACC, the police and other institutions are supposed to be guardians and protectors of the people. If they fail to do so then the future of the country will follow the way banana republics.
Already there are signs of deterioration of the moral culture in the country. TBH died while in custody. There are many instances of detainees who also died while in police custody. Altantuya was blown to bits with C4 explosives.
These are disturbing signs, and unless there is a transformation, the culture of violence will spread and will bring down the nation.
A Royal Commision of Inquiry into the death of TBH and the circumstances related to it, might hopefully reveal truths that would guide the nation along the right path.
I think almost everyone has missed the point. The RCI is called by the Agong, not by the Agong upon the PM’s advise. Why the heck are the Rakyat and others who are keen on the RCI not pressuring the Agong? What the heck is the Agong doing? Still enjoying polo and his cuppa tea as people die in custody?
Dr Chen, you have raised many obvious questions which to me have obvious answers if the police inject some “kugan” elements into the investigation. Of course to the authorities and their collaborators, there are no obvious questions and there are no obvious answers. Let me guess – at the end of the enquiry, “it is an unexplained death”
Hello loose cannon, if you do not know how the system works, please don’t simply insult the Agong, you can be charged for sedition, you stupid loud mouth.
As usual … ignorance is bliss. Someone needs to read the Act before they talk so much. Amazing how ignorant some coffee shop politicians can be. :)
Ya, you should read the constitution and the overall system of government before, as usual, open your big mouth. Ya jury trail in Malaysia for murder cases, tell me how can i trust an ass like you?
SpeakUp, although Commissions of Enquiry Act 1950 and the letter of its provisions say that Yang di-Pertuan Agong determines appointment of commissioners, frame of reference and manner of conduct RCI, it is the general impression that such acts are on cabinet advice per overriding prescription of our Federal Constitution (not sure, I think articles 39/40?).
Except as otherwise provided for by the Constitution as regards his position and authority, the Yang di-Pertuan Agong usually acts in accordance with the advice of the Cabinet or more specifically, of the Prime Minister, in the exercise of his functions. However, the Yang di-Pertuan Agong is entitled to and at his request, any information concerning the government of the Federation which is available to the Cabinet.
Although the Yang di-Pertuan Agong is to act on the advice of the Cabinet or of a Minister or after consultation with or on the recommendation of any person or body of persons (other than the Cabinet), His Majesty may act in his discretion in the performance of the three following functions, that is to say:
· The appointment of a Prime Minister;
· Consent or the withholding of consent to a request for the dissolution of Parliament;
· The requisition of a meeting of the Conference of Rulers concerned solely with the privileges, position, honor and dignity of Their Royal Highnesses, and any actions at such a meeting.
Appointment of RCI commissioners is not one of these defined exceptions.
The King is expected to act on Cabinet’s advice because we are constitutional monarchy and not absolute monarchy, and the constitution being supreme to a legislation like Commissions of Enquiry Act 1950, the latter should be read subject to overriding provision of constitution requiring cabinet’s advice.
Jeff … by convention perhaps but the Act gives the Agong the powers to call for a RCI to be set up. That is not curtailed by anything (there is not proviso to the section in question) but its up to his own discretion. The Act is clear on that.
What I say is based on a feudal system that a monarch is given the position as long as the monarch also provides protection to its subjects. Loyalty for protection.
I believe the issue of absolute monarchy does not arise here. The Act is clear. No need for Golden Rule etc etc. That is my take …
Section 2(1) of Commissions of Enquiry Act 1950 reads:
1) The Yang di-Pertuan Agong may, where it appears to him to be expedient so to do, issue a Commission appointing one or more Commissioners and authorizing the Commissioners to enquire into—
(a) the conduct of any federal officer;
(b) the conduct or management of any department of the public service of Malaysia;
(c) the conduct or management of any public institution which is not solely maintained by State funds; or
(d) any other matter in which an enquiry would, in the opinion of the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, be for the public welfare, not being—
(i) a matter involving any question relating to the Islamic religion or the Malay custom; or
(ii) in relation to Sabah or Sarawak, a matter specified in item 10 of the State List.
Appears to the Agong expedient to do so … in Agong’s opinion be for public welfare …
My take on the Act is its an instrument that ensure checks and balances on the Government, a power that is vested in the Monarch to ensure that this country is not what it is today. Hence, it is the Monarch’s duty to ensure this power is wielded in times such as the one we live in.
Our Constitutional Monarchy is with purpose, its not for ceremonies only. When the British drafted our laws and constitution they put in many safeguards knowing that we would be a fledgling.
Many things were codified but many common law principles were changed to ensure a better working legal system. This is seem clearly in things like the Contracts Act etc.
We are entering the Mahathirism era of tyranny rule. TBH mystery death is just the beginning of more cruelty incidents to recur. This is the price the nation and the opposition have to pay for reformation.
I have no confident of any actions againts MACC officers involved because conspiracy has been plan and the aim is to topple the Selangor state government.
Chen MH wrote:
Why did MACC not investigate the former MB of Selangor, although he owns and stays in a RM24 million mansion?
correction:
the former MB has not stay in the nearly completed Istana. He is staying in a rented luxury bungalow in Glenmarie costing RM18,000 a month.
Anyways, frankly, I doubt the former MB’s home is 24M, its not RM3M but I think RM24M is very exaggerated. Not bad … a dentist who has not renewed his dental practise license can say that he has been puling teeth to pay for his home! Hahahahaha … Malaysia Boleh.
Dr Chen,
While I agree that an impartial and independent investigation should be carried out to find the truth about TBH’s dead, I find your assumption of MACC’s guilt in this matter disturbing. Let the investigation run its course but until then, such blatant and wild accusations have no merit, especially coming out from someone who is called `DAP Life Advisor’. I am sure you’ve heard about `innocent till proven guilty’ or do you not subscribe to such democratic principlie?
Firstly, Najib neither knows nor understands the meaning of truth.
Secondly, even if he has a faint or vague idea, he wouldn’t be the first to rush to the streets to tell the truth.
Altantuya’s silence. TBH’s RCI. Scorpene. Najib’s record is dotted with too many deaf stones dying to speak out the truth.
imranj78 … sorry la, the presumption of innocence only works for PR. You will note how some of them are happy to call BN kakis interesting names like MURDERER etc but when their own is investigated (more than often unfairly I have to say) they scream its all innocent, not even the presumption of innocence, just plain innocent. Interesting right?
May the murderer of Teoh Beng Hock be tormented in HELL FOR ETERNITY!
If you know the right and wrong, if you know fair play, if you know justice and if you know decency, you would not have said those things above. Therefore, I am not wrong in labeling you simpleton, bias, have hidden agenda, a loose cannon and a loud mouth. Hello, we are not fighting for a perfect society; we are fighting for a relatively decent and clean society. You must be a real moron not to get it despite repeatedly told.
Imranj78, well said, but unfortunately past records do not seem to suggest what you said is going to happen. How many investigations involving dubious deals and incidents have run their proper course? You can’t blame the people for being suspicious, can you? Unless of course you are also one of those with hidden agenda.
Hmmmm … there goes the neighbourhood.
“Imranj78, well said, but unfortunately past records do not seem to suggest what you said is going to happen. How many investigations involving dubious deals and incidents have run their proper course? You can’t blame the people for being suspicious, can you?” – so says Lim Kam Put who in earlier thread “Inquest into Teoh Beng Hock’s death on Wednesday should be halted to allow Cabinet to review and widen terms of reference of Royal Commission of Inquiry into causes of Teoh’s death to command public confidence in public institutions and the Prime Minister” takes the following positions:-
· “To me both the inquest and RCI are useless…. Why can’t the police investigate this case based on murder or foul play?”
· “Now we are crying and insisting that we should have RCI. My view is that have we insisted enough that this case be investigated under murder or foul play first, which I believe would definitely attract more vigorous investigating procedures and methods”
· “why can’t we make more noise on insisting that this case be investigated under foul play or murder (by the police) when circumstances have pointed toward that?”
Lim Kam Put is still talking about pushing the police to investigate murder/ foul play. Forget about RCI or Inquest or which is better! (He must be a very unusual mind to make an analysis – and conclusion – of the obvious that all others have failed to discern!)
We all missed the point that he has got.
Then he comes out to tell Imranj 78 : “unfortunately past records do not seem to suggest what you said is going to happen. How many investigations involving dubious deals and incidents have run their proper course? You can’t blame the people for being suspicious, can you?”
Exactly. According to statistics revealed in Parliament last year, there were a total of 1535 custodial deaths in the country between 2003 and 2007. None of of these have been investigated to the point that revealed a single foul play. Then we have the latest, A Kugan. Until today justice has not veen served. The perpetrators have not been identified and punished.
And now he is saying the RCI being placed more confidence by civil society including Bar Council, the Opposition, YB Lim Kit Siang, Dr Chen Man Hin and many others to investigate Teoh’s death missed the point whgen the real point is to pressure the police to investigate the case on basis of murder and foul play!
I don’t see anything consistent or rational in what he says on this subject!
It is only your twisted mind thinks what your wrote above was what I said. You just can’t put think in context because you never bother to really read and understand what others are trying to say. You just think that you are too smart here.
It is ok, I need not reply to you point by point. You write whatever you like and I will do the same. Let others read and form their opinions.
Damn it, if I said police investigations have not been effective, it does not mean that we should not try to make it more effective, got it pea brain? Why can’t an issue be tackled in multi-prongs approach. Why an issue needs to be tackled sequentially. Only pea brain who can only handle one variable at a time will think like that. Chi shin lah to talk to you.
I did not write what you said. I merely quoted verbatim what you said.
“Why can’t an issue be tackled in multi-prongs approach” rather than “sequentially”?
You mean have RCI, Inquest, police and MACC all multi-prong investigate the same death at same time (concurrently) and all 4 institutions investigating the same subject possibly coming out with different conclusion?
Since your brain can handle more than one variable at same time, whats your solution to all 4 coming out with different conclusions of Teoh’s death?
//Damn it if I said police investigations have not been effective, it does not mean that we should not try to make it more effective??
How do we make police investigations more effective? What’s your proposal, Lim Kam Put?
I thought the idea of a RCI is to impartially make such findings, define such a parameters and make such recommendations that will provide impetus to the police to investigate more effectively but you pooh pooh the idea of either RCI or inquest.
So how do you recommend that we do it?
Investigations into A Kugan ‘s case have also not been effective. Lets hear how exactly you and the people can make police investigate custodial deaths more effectively (other than prior deliberations and recommendations of RCI).
//I did not write what you said. I merely quoted verbatim what you said//
Precisely this is how a pea brain works. When you quote verbatim, it does not mean you are saying the right things. You have simply taken out of context all I said.
Now you are talking about “how”. That is for all right minded people, NGOs and political parties to think and to pressure the government to do the right things when investigating cases of this nature. Am I supposed to give you the how part each time I make a statement? You too have been giving out lots of sh!t, did anybody ask you the how part? I am telling you RCI and the Inquest are most probably not going to be effective. You disagreed, now can you tell why and how they can be effective? I don’t label you stupid for nothing, you are.
When I said multi-prongs, I mean precisely what I said. We should try to ask the government to investigate the case under murder or foul play, failing which or concurrently, also ask for inquest or RCI. For you it is we “have passed” that. Who the sh!t you think you are to tell others whether we have passed that or not. Why worry about different methods (if indeed the government allows it) will yield different results. I know this is possibility that some quarters have been talking about it. My question is so what? Let this case tear apart as widely as possible the institutions of government.
You have consistently asked others to be civil and don’t indulge in names calling. At least I am direct in whatever I said. You, on the other, are the one suffering from Schizophrenia, for you do not know what you are doing. Be civil my foot when you can’t take criticism and will resort to all kinds of name callings. You have no problem with others because they have essentially let you roam about and after a while you think you are really that great. Talking about aggrandisement, how fitting this applies to you.
Lim Kam Put, Let me take you through the merits of your preceding posting.
You said in 1st para – ///….“You have simply taken out of context all I said”. If so you have in your posting #20 and #22 an opportunity to restate context. From what I can see, you have been wailing all over the place and yet have not yet said anything coherent.
For example, lets look at your 2nd para in which you said /// “Now you are talking about “how”. That is for all right minded people, NGOs and political parties to think and to pressure the government to do the right things when investigating cases of this nature. Am I supposed to give you the how part each time I make a statement?”…..///
I thought “right minded people, NGOs and political parties” are now lobbying for expanded frame of reference for RCI so that its impartial recommendations may hopefully exert appropriate pressure on authorities/police to do a more thorough investigation on Teoh’s mysterious custodial death than what they had done so far labelling it “sudden death”.
Now Lim Kam Put, you derided that idea of RCI (Quote :“I am telling you RCI and the Inquest are most probably not going to be effective”), so I asked you now how else you want to achieve best result. [You don’t pooh pooh what others suggest here as “pea brain” and when asked what’s your alternative bright idea, you replied “Am I supposed to give you the how part each time I make a statement?”] This is pathetic and irresponsible. You wanty the house torn down saying that it is wrongly built and when asked how to correctly rebuild it, you say “how am I supposed to know?”
Then you said to me ///You too have been giving out lots of sh!t, did anybody ask you the how part? /// as if to confirm/admit that all that you have posted, contradicted others and created ruckus are “lots of sh!t”.
Your 3rd para: ///….When I said multi-prongs, I mean precisely what I said. We should try to ask the government to investigate the case under murder or foul play, failing which or concurrently, also ask for inquest or RCI. For you it is we “have passed” that. /// Hello isn’t it understood that we have already done and passed that? Is not this your statement senseless? – “we should try to ask the government to investigate the case under murder or foul play” – as if there were elements of such murder or foul in Teoh’s case the police need be told by all that they should investigate the case appropriately under murder or foul play, and that it behooves upon “right minded people, NGOs and political parties” to lobby, send memorandum, write to press, raise in parliament, demand etc – “please police do that, please do that!” before all of us are entitled to ask for RCI???
I think Lim Kam Put, you have lost it – your marbles (the one in your head, I don’t mean between your legs)!
Coming to your last para // …. “You have consistently asked others to be civil and don’t indulge in names calling. At least I am direct in whatever I said. You, on the other, are the one suffering from Schizophrenia.etc..Talking about aggrandisement, how fitting this applies to you…”// – it actually does not dignify a response because its “non-rational” and a lot of pungent foam but no beer stuff..
I note that you have assumed that when I talked about self -aggrandisement in Schizophrenia generally, I was actually obliquely referring to your goodself.
Well if you find a hat that fits appropriately your head, there is nothing wrong for you to take and wear it!
See, some people need to really make a mess of a nice place when their own place has NO VISITORS. Sigh …
//I note that you have assumed that when I talked about self -aggrandisement in Schizophrenia generally, I was actually obliquely referring to your goodself. //
Precisely this is your problem: you have always assumed that others are stupid and you are clever. Well you assume wrong! Assumption is most probably applicable to sidekicks who can’t hold more than variables in their heads.
//Hello isn’t it understood that we have already done and passed that? Is not this your statement senseless? – “we should try to ask the government to investigate the case under murder or foul play” – as if there were elements of such murder or foul in Teoh’s case the police need be told by all that …//
See, again you are saying things which you think you have the final say. What senseless, who are you to decide we have passed or otherwise.
Then you said “as if there were elements of such murder or foul in Teoh’s case the police need be told by all …” Yes, that was what I said, do you have the problem with that? The police need to be told and continuously pressured to do the right thing. May I know what is wrong with that? You find nothing wrong with all and sundries pressuring the government to widen the scope of RCI, am I right? If you think that is the right way to do it, why can’t I said we should continue to pressure the police to the right and necessary things.
Ok, you can write a rejoinder if you want. But I think I am tired with this endless debate which carries us nowhere. I need to earn a living despite whatever you fellows talked about me. Bye for now, but it does not mean I will not be watching you.
You know nothing about me or the site that you talk about. Please don’t continue to say things you know nothing about. If you just learn to shut your loud mouth for one day, I may just let you go.
Ya, jury trial for murder cases in Malaysia, god helps this country when we have a self claimed intellectual who is nothing more than a loud mouth in a kopitiam. Tell me who can trust whatever you said here, loose cannon?
Well there’s nothing in your latest comments that add coherence to what you said, so I think there’s no need for a rejoinder. Regarding your statement “I need to earn a living despite whatever you fellows talked about me. Bye for now, but it does not mean I will not be watching you”, I can only say “likewise”.
sorry repost, leave out some words:
//I note that you have assumed that when I talked about self -aggrandisement in Schizophrenia generally, I was actually obliquely referring to your goodself. //
Precisely this is your problem: you have always assumed that others are stupid and you are clever. Well you assume wrong! Your assumption is probably applicable to your sidekicks and those who can’t hold more than one variables in their heads.
//Hello isn’t it understood that we have already done and passed that? Is not this your statement senseless? – “we should try to ask the government to investigate the case under murder or foul play” – as if there were elements of such murder or foul in Teoh’s case the police need be told by all that …//
See, again you are saying things which you think you have the final say. What senseless, who are you to decide we have passed or otherwise.
Then you said “as if there were elements of such murder or foul in Teoh’s case the police need be told by all …” Yes, that was what I said, do you have the problem with that? The police need to be told and continuously pressured to do the right thing. May I know what is wrong with that? You find nothing wrong with all and sundries pressuring the government to widen the scope of RCI, am I right? If you think that is the right way to do it, why can’t I said we should continue pressuring the police to do the right and necessary things.
Ok, you can write a rejoinder if you want. But I think I am tired with this endless debate which carries us nowhere. I need to earn a living despite whatever you fellows talked about me. Bye for now, but it does not mean I will not be watching you.
///If you just learn to shut your loud mouth for one day, I may just let you go.///
Who are you to tell others whether or not you might just let them go?
The game can be played both ways, you know : it is not a threat but a promise!
Jeff … I really could not care less. Mr Lonely wanna ‘Let me go’? Wow … I am ever so terrified. Hahahahaha …
Each time someone says something we have a reply from Mr Lonely that belittles them without any basis. Forumers are called a BAYI, stupid, ignorant, loud mouth, loose canon, loose canon2, loose canon ii, Paid Blogger, answerable to BN etc.
Nothing pleasant or edifying is posted. Just someone who seeks attention like a child but in fact is a frustrated adult who has no real understanding of how to relate to others.
He/she is a classic example as to why Malaysia is not ready for TOTAL FREEDOM. It gets abused … Malaysians unfortunately are pretty famous for it. Hence, we got banned years ago from places like DalNet.
This is sad … very sad.
Democracy is going to demise in Malaysia.
The court has been under control by the unscrupulous, the media will be ordered to shut his mouth,the civil servants who are supposed to be neutral never acts neutrally instead it becomes the henchman and component party of BN.
The people are required to shut their mouths when they are trying to tell the truth.
The law of this country is put into the hand of some sophists, where some people are given immunity to sedite and take bribes, where some people cannot hold the candles.
Where some people can demonstrate to their hearts content.
Some people say there is a 1Malaysia but the people who promote 1Malaysia are actually telling their rights and privileges will be deprived by non-Malay who loves this country.
“If you just learn to shut your loud mouth for one day, I may just let you go.” nincompoop
Ooooh! I’m scared. Aren’t you, SpeakUp??
If you guys google ‘paranoid schizophrenia’ this is what you get to read:
Patients diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia tend to suffer from delusions and hallucinations. A delusion is a belief about the world that is not consistent with the facts. For instance, a patient may believe he or she is someone other than who he or she really is.
The symptoms are there. Don’t you think? The only cure is medications and more medications.