Deputy Prime Minister and Umno Deputy President, Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin is the latest political leader to perform the somersault – taking a diametrically opposite position from the one he had postured only a few days or even a few hours ago!
Speaking in Kuala Krai this morning, Muhyiddin said Umno wants talks on a unity government to be sped up and asks PAS leaders to forget past conflicts in the interest of the unity of Muslims in the country.
He said he wanted the talks to materialise because he feared that if the matter was allowed to drag on, it would create disunity among the Muslims.
He declared: “We will not impose any conditions and we accept whatever terms set by PAS. As far as I’m concerned, we have to be open.”
The Umno deputy president urged PAS spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat to forget about the conflicts between PAS and Umno in the ‘70s, when both parties cooperated to form the Kelantan state government and the national government.
“As Muslims we are encouraged to forgive. That was in the past,” he said.
He even expressed the hope that the meeting between Umno and PAS could take place “in the next few days, anytime, no problem.”
This is a fantastically speedy turnaround for Muhyiddin who had been adopting a very critical and even sceptical stance to the Umno-Pas unity government proposal.
From his first public stance in Sri Kembangan on June 9 wanting Pas to explain what it meant by a unity government; to the critical position in Langkawi on June 13 questioning the seriousness of Pas in proposing Umno-Pas unity government as “Until today, there is nothing concrete” and predicting that the proposal would not become a reality because of “differences within Pas itself and the other Opposition parties”, Muhyiddin has transformed himself to become the foremost champion for Umno-Pas unity government talks, abandoning all his earlier reservations and pre-conditions to propose the holding of immediate Umno-Pas unity government talks “in the next few days, anytime, no problem” on “whatever terms set by PAS”.
Pressing for such a Umno-Pas unity government meeting in the next few days, Muhyiddin said
that initially the meeting should be between PAS and Umno only before the matter was discussed in a comprehensive manner with component parties of Barisan Nasional (BN) and the opposition alliance.
Many questions come to the surface. Is Muhyiddin speaking for the Prime Minister and Umno President Datuk Seri Najib Razak, and if so, why such a desperate hurry and even unholy haste?
Did Najib and Muhyiddin get the approval of the leaders of the other Barisan Nasional component parties, in particular MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat, Gerakan President Tan Sri Dr. Koh Tsu Koon, MIC President, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu that Umno to conduct such “Umno-Pas unity government talks” or is there just no necessity for such prior consultation as MCA, Gerakan, MIC and the other Barisan Nasional component parties are just pawns, digits and ciphers which just do not matter or count in the Barisan Nasional scheme of things?
Thinking Malaysians must be asking however how Umno’s support for “Umno-Pas” unity government talks reconcile with what Najib claims to be the underlying philosophy of his premiership –“1Malaysia” concept.
Surely, Najib does not expect Malaysians to take his talk on “1Malaysia” seriously when the first fruit of the Najib premiership is “Umno-Pas unity government talks”!
It would appear that it is none other than Muhyiddin who is making the strongest repudiation of the “1Malaysia” concept!
Don’t worry. I think UMNO will also initiate the unity government talk with Singapore soon. With UMNO, everything seems possible.
Those component parties (MCA, Gerakan, SUPP..) that were against PAS, what you say now?
obviously the guy had a change of heart. experienced an epiphany the night before during which god told him to end the division and unite. unite the muslims against infidels.
the battle for the hearts and minds of the people has now been turned into a crusade led by lim kit siang as king arthur. just who is lady guinevere??
can you trust anwar to play sir lancelot, the trusted aide of king arthur?
It does not matter who start the so call unity talk or rather more appropriate should be call Malay Unity talk, but UMNO has capitalize this issue to break the Pakatan bond.
First only PAS was invited by UMNO to have a talk to unite? What to unite? If only Pas is invited surely people perception is they come together to talk about Malay. But when Najib start with his PM days with the 1 Malaysian talk, why they are so keen to start with this unity talk. If there is any unity talk is should be between all parties from BN and all parties from PR.
This Nasah guy has been caught and being play out by UMNO and they see this clear opportunity to break the unity among the PR parties, this is the real interest why UMNO was suddenly so keen to hold unity talk with PAS.
PAS has to be very mindful why non Malay has given them the full support in the last GE! People wish and want a change in the political scene where UMNO has dominated for so long and Corruption has become the same as what UMNO mean now. If PAS want to associate with UMNO, PAS will not have the future in the next GE. Simply people has totally lost the confidence of UMNO politic and they are depending on life support from those who has interest with them and those simple folks whom they can still manipulate. With the new young voters coming into more aware the old tactic politic by UMNO will not survive. So IF PAS wish to continue with this courtship they will finish and this is Tok Guru Nik Aziz can see it with his wisdom. This is why he was so upset with his deputy continue falling into UMNO trap.This was why he call for Nasha to resign. To Tok Guru Nasah is just a young kid and he has been play like a toy by UMNO.
PAS must act decisively and simply tell UMNO off. Finish no more courtship. But UMNO will not let go so easy and they will try very hard to continue with this issue until damage is done on PAS relationship with PR.
//that initially the meeting should be between PAS and Umno only before the matter was discussed in a comprehensive manner with component parties of Barisan Nasional (BN) and the opposition alliance.//
Hmmm, first among equal again! Surely it will be a special agreement within an agreement.
Just don’t blame UMNO alone. It is its survival; after all MCA, Gerakan and MIC are almost useless to them now.
Sdr Lim, why do you bother with what UMNO leaders said? The main concern is PAS, your partner. You have a partner who thinks, behaves and acts chauvinistically (and perhaps materialistically) just like UMNO.
I dont think the master, especially a racist one, needs to be accountable and get approval from his slaves; [deleted]
Napoleon has his Waterloo, Hitler has his Stalingrad, Anwar has his Saiful and pas has its Nasharudin
Tonberry, any idea where are Uwno keep their things? hahaha in china they hang at kitchen or bed room. said can keep away black magic. haha by the way.. Muhyiddin, i dont think he bring out everyday. cos he keep in peti sejuk to keep segar!
well, what this fat guy said is nonesense, did Pas agree for meet up yet? 1 hand clap no sound lah. LGE n AI wont allow this happen. PKR is our hopes…
“PAS has to be very mindful why non Malay has given them the full support in the last election …” allan tham
pas is being consistent in its approach, contrary to popular belief.
pas hitches a ride from political rivals like dap etc to get to where they want to go despite their differences. having demonstrated to umno how useful they are as partners, it is now time to hitch a ride from the incumbent party. pas leaders are not country bumpkins unskilled at what they do. they are blessed with good negotiating skills. it is a mistake for those who underestimate them.
even nincompoops can see that.
In fact, I would say that the Opposition is redundant. As far as UMNO is concerned, it has enough OPPOSITION from within already. So what is the big idea of putting up the stupid UMNO (UNITED MALAYS NATIONAL ORGANIZATION) signboard above PWTC?
Eureka, even a dumb can see the strategy of PAS.
if you say it is a stupid idea then they must be doing something right.
i’m very sure you politicians of all politicians can see through the tactic by bn goons of unity talks is TO SPILT THE VOTERS ESPECIALLY THE PAS SUPPORTERS!!!
if a anti-bn voter feels that pas will eventually goes to bn, he might as well not vote meaning if more voters like hik think like that, no one will vote for pas or the numbers will decrease thus making bn goons win the election.
very cunning of bn but SO AM I…..
“”Deputy Prime Minister and Umno Deputy President, Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin is the latest political leader to perform the somersault – taking a diametrically opposite position from the one he had postured only a few days or even a few hours ago!”””
Perhaps Muhyiddin Yassin should offer to surrender his “deputy Prime Minister post” to PAS’s president -Hadi Awang to form the so-called ‘UNITY GOVERNMENT’ ? !
FINALy.. MCA deputy Dr C had made the staement. he can talk to PAS lol….
“Did Najib and Muhyiddin get the approval of the leaders of the other Barisan Nasional component parties, in particular MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat, Gerakan President Tan Sri Dr. Koh Tsu Koon, MIC President, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu that Umno to conduct such “Umno-Pas unity government talks” or is there just no necessity for such prior consultation as MCA, Gerakan, MIC and the other Barisan Nasional component parties are just pawns, digits and ciphers which just do not matter or count in the Barisan Nasional scheme of things?” (Lim Kit Siang)
YB Lim,
You must be kidding! When have you ever found that Umno leaders as the Big Brother to all other component parties such as MCA, Gerakan, MIC of Barisan Nasional have to waste their precious time in seeking for prior consultation from other smaller brothers or sisters of BN?
Perhaps Muhyiddin Yassin has already been enlightened by Najib out of a sudden about the true meaning of the 1Malaysia Concept. 1Malaysia may simply mean “One Malaysia Nation being ruled by the Malays in the joint-effort of Umno and PAS as the mainstream political power, leaving all other minority races behind as simply the peripheral political decorators which serve the purpose of window-dressing Barisan Nasional as a coalition of pseudo-multi-ethnics, pseudo-religious-tolerance, and pseudo-magnanimity!” Umno is just trying to turn the political atmosphere of Malaysia which currently suffers from big financial stresses into the stretching end of the continuum of racist extremism, by inviting PAS on board for a free hitch-hike ride!
Are PAS leaders smart enough to resist the sweet-talk enticement of Najib and Muhyiddin? Only time itself can provide us a good answer to this question!
MCA deputy had voice up, wait for gerakan n MIA. wondering… what this 2 slave will talk about or remain silent? PAS.. is time for you to fan the fire… brovo!!
If ever Muhyiddin be a PM…Malaysia is finished.
That downright low IQ racialist is tying hard to focus on race and religion out-dated politics.. ..so dumb…you can ignore whatever he is saying now.. or in the future.
Recollect Dollah said UMNO do not play race and religion politics at all.
Now he can eat his words.
UMNO no race politics is not UMNO.
Just listen to Najib and Muhyiddin speeches and you cannot help laughing…how the contradict each other.
Dare Najib scold Muhyiddin…like PAS Nik did to one?
Nik Aziz has already stated in no uncertain terms that he will not agree to any unity talks with UMNO.
Hadi cannot claim to represent all of PAS and that PAS wants to have unity talks with UMNO. It is only him and his supporters that want unity talks.
I pity the position that Nik Aziz is right now. Nik Aziz knows that unity with UMNO will surely split PAS and even destroy PAS. Not only will PAS loose the trust of non-Malays but also the respect of many Malays who despise UMNO’s corrupt ways. Nik Aziz is desperately trying to save his party.
Unfortunately, i believe that it would be best for all if the opportunists in PAS leave and join UMNO. Let them go. Better these … reveal themselves now rather than wait for the next GE.
they can form a new party, leave Pakatan and join BN. what is there to stop them? whether the base of the party will follow them is another matter.
If PAS joint UMNO sure will be mati.
That day read the news that a YB from Primie Minister saying that Malaysia is a MUSLIM state which is totally a lie.
It is stated very clearly in before Malaya Indepedent the Malaya Federation Constitution Proposal written and stated very clearly MALAYA will be secular STATE.
Even the late first prime minister Tunku Rahman saying it very clearly to the newspapers and public.
The UMNO think the MALAYSIAN a bunch of stupid human being meh.
Why keep on tell us Malaysia lie that Malaysia is not a secular state.
UMNO people are crooks and liars with no shame.
SURE, PAS join UMNO(crooks, liars) will be end of the road.
“It is stated very clearly in before Malaya Indepedent the Malaya Federation Constitution Proposal written and stated very clearly MALAYA will be secular STATE.”
which page, which article??
which page, which article?? tom dumb
If you can finish reading the whole consitution, then you will get the idea. The problem is, can you read?
I mean the original constitution , not the one after you were born.
“Unfortunately, i believe that it would be best for all if the opportunists in PAS leave and join UMNO. Let them go. Better these rats reveal themselves now rather than wait for the next GE.” (katdog)
katdog is absolutely right by the above statement. Why should Nik Aziz keep the opportunists in PAS and allow these opportunists to lure PAS members with Najib’s goodies and candies into doing some immoralities in PAS? It had better for Nik Aziz to cut off the rotten arm now before it was too late to see that all the cancerous cells had been spred via the infected arm to other healthy parts of the body until the whole body was found to have chronic cancerous cells! Better for PAS to act fast than no action at all!
Now the porno king wants MCA-DAP “engagement” for the sake of rakyat. See how despicable they are.
It is more for the sake of saving their own skin. Goodness me, they are really desparate.
“He (Muhyiddin) said he wanted the talks to materialise because he feared that if the matter was allowed to drag on, it would create disunity among the Muslims.” (Lim Kit Siang)
Unity of Muslims in this country is not a good and justifiable rationale for Muhyiddin to use as a persuasion to approach PAS members for a marriage! God never said that all believers of Him should unite in order to build another Tower of Babel for purpose of challenging God for a second time in human history! God only said that all His believers should obey Him and should shun evil. No one good follower of God should allow himself to compromise and team up with the evil-doers, such as those scams in Umno!
ReformMalaysia Says:
“Perhaps Muhyiddin Yassin should offer to surrender his “deputy Prime Minister post” to PAS’s president -Hadi Awang to form the so-called ‘UNITY GOVERNMENT’ ? !”
Would this happen without problems ?
This unity call may serve Najib’s purpose to sideline himself from his no. 2 after using him to dispose of AB.
pw: HP. stretch
Muhyiddin Yassin used to be the Menteri Besar of Johore for many years and he should pay much more attention to the traffic congestion problems of Singapore-Johore Causeway. He should not waste time on talking about the Muslim Unity, because unity of the same mankind was never the will of God, as shown in the ancient history which mentioned that the act of God had destroyed the symbol of human unity, i.e. the Tower of Babel.
Muhyiddin as a Johorean should be brave enough to point out Najib’s mistake in making a hasty decision to develop a Third Link with Singapore at Pengerang, a place which is too far away from the Johor Bahru City Centre or Kota Tinggi Town Centre and is too remote for majority of Johoreans to enjoy the benefit of a cross-national bridge!
His Royal Highness the Sultan of Johore and Tengku Mahkota of Johore will not simply accede to Najib’s unjustifiable Third Link Proposal at Changi-Pengerang. Perhaps Muhyiddin should advise Najib to renegotiate again with Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong for selecting a new Third Link location that will link up Danga Bay of Johore and Kranji Road (or Lim Chu Kang) of Singapore, for the nearer location to Johor Bahru City Centre will tend to maximise the utility of the new Third Link and benefit a much larger number of Johorean population and Singaporean population as well.
Since the Third Link is a much more important issue than unity talk between Umno and PAS, Muhyiddin should focus his attention on studying the feasibility of this Third Link project and should not challenge God by not following the will of God which requires pluralism in politics so that no one will have too much power to despise God.
Muhyiddin on UMNO-PAS unity government talks ………..” We will not impose any conditions and we accept whatever terms set by PAS ”
A matter as complex as the UMNO-PAS coalition government will require a lot goodwill from both sides. Muhyiddin has shown himself to be a visionary leader by acknowledging this fact and hence, his preparedness to make sacrifices by ‘taking TWO steps backward to allow PAS to move THREE steps forward’
This dance steps created by Muhyiddin will bring more problems for UMNO than helping to solve the many existing problems within the party. PAS will ask to have some ministerial posts including the DPM’s. Is Muhyiddin magnanimous enough to make way? Najib will have to reshuffle his cabinet for PAS sake and this , of course means that many current BN ministers will be replaced. Who then will go? Can we envisage the in-fighting with one more warlord to making it ‘The Four Kingdoms’?
PAS-Umno union will diminish the chance of Mukhriz Mahathir of becoming the PM in future, which is his old man’s dream. Very soon the old man will jump and bellow at the idea.
All said, PAS-UMNO marriage will benefit PR in the long term?????
Perhaps Muhyiddin has out-of-a-sudden been enlightened by his think-tanks in order for him to offer his DPM seat as a strategy to please PAS leaders. His willingness to sacrifice the post of DPM for the sake of so-called Muslim Unity will later on help Muhyiddin to win the majority support in Umno and Barisan Nasional. Then the time will soon be matured for Muhyiddin to abruptly overthrow Najib and to safely take over Najib as the Umno President and as the new Prime Minister of Malaysia!
It is logical for Muhyiddin to want to see a unity government to be formed between PAS and Umno in Perak as quickly as possible, so that the success in forming a unity government will help to create a good track record for Muhyiddin in terms of his good negotiation skill, which can then help to build up the political legitimacy for Muhyiddin to launch a coup upon Najib during the next Umno annual general meeting, which is expected to be held in October 2009.
Bravo, Muhyiddin, the one who overthrew Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and also the one who is going to overthrow Najib very soon!
Did Najib and Muhyiddin get the approval of the leaders of the other Barisan Nasional component parties, in particular MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat, Gerakan President Tan Sri Dr. Koh Tsu Koon, MIC President, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu that Umno to conduct such “Umno-Pas unity government talks” – Kit
====================================================
MCA, Gerakan and MIC have no choice if UMNO goes ahead to conduct such “Umno-Pas unity government talks”, since UMNO – being the Big Brother of the coalition – has absolute right to do whatever it pleases irrespective whether the younger siblings (MCA, Gerakan and MIC) like it or not.
If Muhyiddin is really keen to make the dream of PAS-Umno unity government in Perak come true, then he is required to seek royal patronage of the Sultan of Perak first.
The Court of Appeal has already ruled in the case of Nizar vs Zambry that the Sultan has the discretionary power to decide on who and who His Royal Highness wants to be the members of the State Executive Council. The ultimate power of forming a unity government is not vested in the hand of the Prime Minister or the Deputy Prime Minister. This is the consequence of a court judgement, which has given the Sultan much more power to appoint and to dismiss than the Prime Minister. Therefore, Muhyiddin has better sought the royal consent first about the possibility of forming a unity government, lest he may be embarrased if the Sultan is to reject his unity government proposal later.
Obviously, after the case of Nizar vs Zambry, a great mess in the Government Power Structure has already been created by the judgement of the Court of Appeal in relation to the limit of the Sultan’s power!
Joshua: do you think this fatty can let off his deputy PM!!! dont be silly, he bite the chair since pak la step down. even at night he is hugging his kris sleep. Nik … i’, feel very sorry to your student. you should buy some cane from night market to teach the naughty students. MCA deputypls dont be copycat, stay away, the are talking about muslim, you are not.
It is obvious that Umno is now desperate so much so that even Muyudin does not know his own stand !!!
They are just trying to cash on the disunity in Pas over the issue in which its deputy president Nasarudin is now in hot soup.
Regarding other component parties in BN, as has been shown by Umnoputra leaders, you can forget about them. Just give them some positions, you can get them to do what you want !!! My god, unbelievable, inconceivable but it is true . Cheese.
The Prime Minister has not much power nowadays because the Prime Minister will not be able to decide on a smalle matter such as the location for building a bridge if he does not seek the royal consent from the Sultan first.
Muhyiddin as a Johorean should be brave enough to point out Najib’s mistake in making a hasty decision to develop a Third Link with Singapore at Pengerang, a place which is too far away from the Johor Bahru City Centre or Kota Tinggi Town Centre and is too remote for majority of Johoreans to enjoy the benefit of a cross-national bridge!
His Royal Highness the Sultan of Johore and Tengku Mahkota of Johore will not simply accede to Najib’s unjustifiable Third Link Proposal at Changi-Pengerang. Perhaps Muhyiddin should advise Najib to renegotiate again with Singapore PM Lee Hsien Loong for selecting a new Third Link location that will link up Danga Bay of Johore and Kranji Road (or Lim Chu Kang) of Singapore, for the nearer location to Johor Bahru City Centre will tend to maximise the utility of the new Third Link and benefit a much larger number of Johorean population and Singaporean population as well.
Since the Third Link is a much more important issue than unity talk between Umno and PAS, Muhyiddin should focus his attention on studying the feasibility of this Third Link project and should not bother too much about forming a PAS-Umno unity government. After all, the Sultan of Perak, rather than Najib, will have the final say on who and who His Royal Highness wants to sit in the State EXCO as the Executive Councilors. Najib is just a lame duck Prime Minister who has no say in the unity government!
PAS is an islamic political organisation or party.Similarly why not christians too form a political organisation in the country to protect its interest just like PAS or Umno.And following the DPM’s calling for all muslims to unite,I think the christians too have the same right to call for all christians to unite.Please think about it,dear christians brothers and sisters .
in making overtures to a key component of Pakatan, it not only hopes to retain control of the federal government and regain control of states they lost, but if that materializes it would be the end of Pakatan.
a brilliant move by UMNO, wouldn’t you say? that is why there has been so much condemnation so much name calling. it is obvious for a long time that PAS is Pakatan’s Achilles heel.
I remember last year, UMNO was criticised by other BN component parties for not discussing change of PM plan with them. After the complain, Abdullah Badawi decided to hold a BN council meeting to discuss the PM transition plan.
But now, under Najib, no BN component parties dare to even make a sound or complain on the unity plan between PAS n UMNO.
frankyapp Says: why not christians
Well, that’s you and Lee Wang Yen, maybe Onlooker Politics – he’s been putting his dog collar on to post recently. I wonder who’s going to play the part of DAP’s Tok Guru and tell you to ‘sling your hook’ before you cause any chaos?! You really think a Christian Democrat party in Malaysia would be a good idea right now? You would have to have ceramahs in churches, out of the public eye, in case a Muslim saw you and reported you for evangelism!
The best reason of all is in your comment: to protect its interest. Malaysian voters are turning away from self-interest parties because they are self-interested. You can’t credibly claim to have the rakyat’s best interests at heart if you’re overtly campaigning for your friends only. It doesn’t matter whether its race or religion – self-preservation societies are on the wane in Malaysia and it’s a very good thing too.
I would hope your dear christian brothers and sisters would think about it and realise that if they want future political success, they really ought to stick to political platforms that affect all voters and not the divisive communal politics of the past.
” … following the DPM’s calling for all muslims to unite,I think the christians too have the same right to call for all christians to unite.Please think about it,dear christians brothers and sisters.” frankyapp
of course you can. it is your right to form a political party and fight for the legitimate rights of non-malays. it’s all there spelt out in the country’s constitution.
indians can form one party. don’t know how they could unite under one since indians are hindus, christians etc. chinese can form another. don’t know how that would unite since chinese are buddhists, christians etc. the malays?? the malays are 100% muslims. do the maths. nincompoop would tell you that if voting is along racial and religious lines, the malays would come out on top – always.
don’t need to hold elections. elections cost money to run. with the money saved, pas can build more mosques. brilliant idea.
This issue of `unity’ talk has been blown out of proportion by everyone! While UMNO is jumping into the bandwagon, we should first remember that it is PAS who have been actively bringing this matter up and not the other way around. I don’t believe this is wrong as it is their right, or anyone’s right to talk to anyone they want. That is the essence of democracy and Nik Aziz of all people should know this. To be honest, I am disappointed with Nik Aziz as he is letting his emotions get the better of him.
In Islam, unity among the Muslim ummah is something that is expected and this is what I believe the unity talk is all about. The unity talk proposal is not about forming a political entity nor is it about UMNO abandoning its BN partners. Unity talk here is about bringing the biggest two parties together to discuss about matters affecting the ummah as espoused by Islam and does not mean it is sidelining the non-Muslims. Is this wrong? Definitely not as it is within their right to do so!
imranj78 Says: Is this wrong?
Irrelevant! The question of right or wrong has been dealt with under the heading ‘kataks – see Anwar’. I think the final answer is “depends on whether the reader benefits or suffers from it”. What might be chafing people’s most sensitive parts is that they voted for PAS in large numbers on the understanding that they were voting for Pakatan Rakyat, or at very least voting against UMNO/BN.
The Constitution defends the Right to Freedom of Association (with obvious exceptions), so you’re perfectly right to say “it is within their right to do so!”. The problem is that people’s expectations vary as to how Free their fellows are to Associate, from time to time and place to place. We’ve had the example of our spouses offered before where they are Constitutionally Free to Associate, but there are few among us who would willingly accept our spouses exercising their Right and really Freely Associating. I think there’s some natural expectation that a person or party you vote for would keep to its pre-election promises, even if they are tacit ones. Yes, they’re Right to explore their political sexuality, and yes we think it’s wrong. Are we wrong?
Umno politicians are no fool and they had observed how the PR and PAS was tearing itself apart due to this controversy. What is really interesting is the reason of ummah for holding the talk. Now no one can question the talk as this would be questioning muslims doing their thing. So the unity government has now morphed into a more benign form or is it ?
The need to provide such euphemism and using islam for political gain is really dirty politics. Nothing is sacred to these wielders of powers.
Either the PAS members unity talk leave the party.
Or the non-malay voters should not vote these both parties any coming election.
They both parties want unity talk mean they plan to alien you non-Malay Malaysian as a second class citizen, the unity is about alien other races into second class citizens, not about united all Malaysian as one.
Either they die or you die as a second class. Which side you take?
UMNO now shows what it means by “1Malaysia”. Unfortunately the leaders of MCA, Gerakan and MIC are so subordinated that they dared not ask their big boss UMNO to explain why “1Malaysia” has become “1Malay”.
This unity talk idea is great. PAS unity talk with UMNO. DAP unity talk with MCA and Gerakan. MIC unity talk with Hindraf. In the end have the final unity talk amongst all this united groups and we all become united.
OrangRojak says ( yesterday at 23:41.01 )
Agreed 100% UMNO is using race and religion to divide the people for their own selfish gain. Let us not do what they do, otherwise we become racists ourselves.
UMNO and PAS should be united based on the teaching of Islam so either UMNO is gone for going against the teaching of Islam, or PAS is gone for being corrupted like UMNO, and is no longer a religious party. What is left in PAS will have no where to go except joining PKR, and help boost the quality of PKR candidates. The PKR kataks of Perak would not happen again come GE 13.
MCA and MIC remains as junior BN window-dressers, whether PAS joins as UMNO or a second-most senior BN party. The few ministers are quite happy retaining their position. They will be quite sure of getting elected in Malay majority areas, and that counts for them.
The urban Malays know who to vote in the next election. If PAS remains in GE13, they will still be supported by non-Malays. If PAS becomes part of PKR, it will still receive Malays’ support.
DAP will still have to depend on non-Malays to get into parliament. The only way to change the federal government would be to gain support from the east Malaysian states. Have the non-Malays bumis there come to the realisation that they are still a class behind Peninsular bumis? If they had, then they should know that UMNO could not be trusted.
If Malays want to stay united, they have every right to do so. But to be a bigger bully based on united Malays’ strength would not help reform in Malaysia. But then who ever believe that BN leaders care for the wellbeing of the country.
MR LIM,
…..you mean somersaulting like fish out of the water and struggling to survive?. Ha ha ha!
If you recall past Harakah issues, Hadi Awang condemned and called UMNO and its leaders by all sorts of names. But now he wants to work with UMNO again! Why, this man has no principle. He is like what the bible says: ” A dog returning to its own vomit ”
Nik Aziz Nik Mat is a true Muslim and champion of Malays and Malaysians. Hidup Tok Guru
MCA said DAP showed its true color by working with PAS. They insisted that DAP apologize to the Chinese.
Should’nt the MCA now state their stand on the PAS-UMNO unity government talks?????? ( 4 horses cannot chase to bring back the words spoken out in haste?? )
OrangRojak,
Your point on the `natural expectation’ of people with regards to association when voting a party is noted. But I think PR has no `moral’ ground of using this excuse as they themselves were courting BN reps to jump over i.e. `Sept 16′ project by Anwar. BN themselves are no angels as well when it comes to this matter of course.
I believe the support for these unity talks within PAS is bigger then we think. For example, only 10 out of the 23 PAS reps came out publicly to support Nik Aziz’s stand. Could this mean that the other 13 did not agree with Nik Aziz but were aligned with Hadi instead? Only time will tell but this is a likely scenario.
a2a,
Again I reiterate my point that `unity’ talks doesn’t mean that it will sideline the non-Muslims. I can understand however the fear that such talks could create a situation where the Muslim majority virtually control the running of the country as between them, PAS and UMNO can easily control parliament and turn Malaysia into an Islamic country (which I am sure PAS is very well aware about). But again, that’s the essence of democracy i.e. the majority rules so there’s really nothing undemocratic about for as long as the rights of the minorities are upheld.
\Either they die or you die as a second class. Which side you take?\a2a
I’ll take the left side. the window seat if you don’t mind.
PAS-UMNO unity talk. Unity of muslims… I can see that nearly every one is getting paranoid about this development. I had thought that PAS is a party guided by strong spiritual values but it now appear that there are elements within the party that subscribe to communal ideology.
Trying to stop them talking would make them even more determined to talk with UMNO. I say: Have no fear! Let them talk and see what comes out of it. They are after all ideologically incompatible. UMNO is using the other to break up the opposition alliance while PAS side I believe is using UMNO to check PKR’s influence in the alliance. Such is the nature of politics. In time these self serving politicians will find that they cannot go it alone and will come to terms that the Malays, Chinese, Indians and other races have to live together in harmony. I may be the odd one out… But I am watching with great interest how these politicians seek to manipulate people’s emotions and most of all fear.
I would like to say it again. Have no fear. Let them talk. If it should lead to PAS being split, so be it. The winds of change that has taken place since the last GE cannot be easily stopped. I believe that we have reached the critical mass of a new consciousness that will sweep new Malaysians along the road to non-communal politics!!!
imranj78 Says: that’s the essence of democracy
To misquote Star Trek:
The ‘association’ issue is key here – there would be no hue and cry if people really did grant the people they voted for the Right of Freedom of Association, but they don’t. And they’re right not to. The natural outcome of elected but totally ‘free agents’ is no protection at all in a system where most of the power and money is concentrated on one side. A majority might vote for the poorer side, only to see them collect their new Mercedes and work for the richer side while the campaign flags are still lying on the ground. The more honest ones might declare themselves “Independent” while painting a big target on their backs, complete with price tag. The smarter ones in a first-past-the-post system would sign up to whichever poorer party is most likely to win a seat.
If the wishes of the majority of voters are not represented after the election, then in my view it isn’t really democracy. Saying that the ‘majority of elected officials’ is what counts is disingenuous, particularly so in an environment where neither promises nor principles appear to count for much. Thanks for reminding me that ‘Anwar started it’. If you re-read my post, you’ll see we agree on our attribution.
“Let them talk and see what comes out of it. They are after all ideologically incompatible.” lkt-56
they are not ideologically different as they are made out to be. they share the same core aspirations regarding religion, language and education. how different is a muslim malay from another muslim malay? pas recently toned down its rhetoric on issues like islamic state. umno has upped the ante. declaring the country is already an islamic state. this play on words remains as what it is i.e. a play on words. the reality? both want to see islamic values govern and guide the day-to-day running of government. the intrusion of islamic values into homes of both muslims and non-muslims.
if umno is one islamic party (to all intents and purposes you cannot say it is not) pas would be to the extreme right of center and umno under the present leadership, right of center. together they would be able to function as one party – but not so with dap. they are incompatible ideologically speaking and can never be.
so you should be scared shit that they are talking to each other.
If every race and religion aspire to gain control of our multi racial and religious country without regard to the sensitivity of others,this will create a very explosive(liken C4) situation and when it happens what do we all benefit from it ?.If Umno/BN are sincere in unity,it should not just call on PAS but all other political parties as well.How nice to hear ” malaysian unity talk ” instead of what we are now hearing “malays and muslim unity talk “.
“the malays are 100% muslims” -TomThumb Says
This is only because our constitution defines a Malay must be a person of muslim faith. In truth, outside Malaysia, there are many Malays that are not neccessarily muslim, but we do not recognize them as Malays, as they do not fit our constitutional definition. Whereas, within our borders, we have many people that are non-Malays but actually still ‘constituationally’ a Malay.
“PAS and UMNO can easily control parliament and turn Malaysia into an Islamic country” -imranj78 Says
That statement is incorrect. Number of parliament seats, UMNO – 78, PAS – 24. Total 102. Not enough to form even a simple majority government. And don’t talk about majority rules crap. BN has for years ensured that opposition held territories are always allocated fewer seats compared to BN areas.
Example, P125 – PUTRAJAYA (BN), total voters: 6608, P51 – BUKIT GELUGOR (DAP) – Total voters: 65,614. Seats like Putrajaya are an incredulous abomination that should never exist in the first place.
In the United States of American,through it’s a multi racial country,its citizens seldom talk about white’s right,black’s right,hispanic’s right or yellow’s right,most of the time they talk is about “american’s right “.The american federal government leaves all the rights of an individual to determine their own religion .It definitely shows its maturity as a united country. Malaysian should emulate the American and the federal government should also do like wise. Nothing is impossible should we have the will and determination to make our country a great nation for all malaysians to live in peace,harmony and prosperity.
“But I think PR has no `moral’ ground of using this excuse as they themselves were courting BN reps to jump over i.e. `Sept 16? project by Anwar.” – imranj78
Fair enough, but i think talking about moral standpoints is besides the point.
The point is, can PAS’ core standpoint of an incorruptible and just government rooted in Islam be compatible with UMNO’s lax morals and convenient manipulations and abuse of law and power for personal benefits? Can PAS work with UMNO, and yet be able to keep themselves untainted and claim to represent the true teachings of Islam?
Niz Aziz knows very well that this is probably impossible and that the credibility of PAS would forever be damaged in the eyes of voters. Hence his vocal objections to any unity government.
But as i said, let the unity government supporters go talk to UMNO. Let them work out whatever sweet deals they desire and let them crossover. We’ll see what happens to BN then.
Imranj78 says “PAS and UMNO can easily control parliament and turn Malaysia into an Islamic country.”
This maybe an old issue since 1957 as some are tempted to interprete the Federal Constitution that way with the official religion. Would that really be good for Malaysia as we have seen that in 52 years? And surprisingly Najib comes up with the title in Kuching as ”
http://www.theborneopost.com/?p=53460
Friday, June 19th, 2009
We’ll not take away your land: Najib
By Raynore Mering and Samuel Aubrey
Ibans assured government will solve problem of uppermost concern to them — land
LUBOK ANTU: Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak yesterday assured the Ibans that the government will not snatch their land away from them.
He even went further to assure them that problems related to their land would be solved by the Barisan Nasional (BN) government.
“… have confidence in the Barisan Nasional (BN) government. We have no intention of grabbing anybody’s land. The Ibans should not worry. The BN government will not snatch your property,” Najib said at a huge gathering at Rumah Manai, Nanga San, here.
“We want to ensure the future of the Ibans and we will solve the land problem that I know you are concerned about,” he added.
pw: Mcaerneyy latrobe
TomThumb,I beg to differ that “malays are 100% muslim ” In Sabah alone,I have said it before and am now repeating it again that I have several malays friend who are born muslim malays but are now christian.One of them is a Pastor of a church and all of his family members are christian as well.
“Again I reiterate my point that `unity’ talks doesn’t mean that it will sideline the non-Muslims. I can understand however the fear that such talks could create a situation where the Muslim majority virtually control the running of the country as between them, PAS and UMNO can easily control parliament and turn Malaysia into an Islamic country (which I am sure PAS is very well aware about). But again, that’s the essence of democracy i.e. the majority rules so there’s really nothing undemocratic about for as long as the rights of the minorities are upheld.” -imranj78
PAS will never join UMNO, period! Stop daydreaming!
“In Islam, unity among the Muslim ummah is something that is expected and this is what I believe the unity talk is all about. The unity talk proposal is not about forming a political entity nor is it about UMNO abandoning its BN partners. Unity talk here is about bringing the biggest two parties together to discuss about matters affecting the ummah as espoused by Islam and does not mean it is sidelining the non-Muslims. Is this wrong? Definitely not as it is within their right to do so!” – imranj78
Talk cock! Where in the world got unity among muslims? Only in hell you can marry Islam and corruption.
Nik Aziz and gang can stay with Anwar , dap and the rest of pakatan to ‘berpakat pakat’ , all the president men of PAS must response to Muhyiddin …..today Umno tomorrow BN ….
Dap overture to MCA……why not…
Dear Kit,
Can PR send an independent during the July 3 nomination day! If PAS does not come out openly and ask UMNO to go to hell with Unity Talk. We will vote the bloody PAS out.
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2009/06/referendum-on-pas-unity-government-on.html
Shiok Guy
//the reality? both want to see islamic values govern and guide the day-to-day running of government. the intrusion of islamic values into homes of both muslims and non-muslims.// tom dumb
I don’t think this is entirely the right observation. If truly Islamic values and principles were used to govern the state and our home, Malaysia would not have so many problems today. The REALITY is Islamic values and principles are abused by politicians in order to galvanize parochial supports, subjugate others and exclude the infidels. They were never used to govern and guide the day-to-day running of government and our home as the dumbo has said.
Look at Iran now, what Islamic government and values are they talking about? Look at Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan and Afghanistan. If truly ISLAMIC values and principles are inculcated and practised, these countries would not be shamble.
Since no country is able to successfully practise any form of religious government, it is best that religious are kept out of government and also be kept out as an intrusive guide to our daily life. Let religions be the personal matter between a person and his creator. Let him pray in the privacy of his room, not at the street corner as Jesus had said or shout through the top of his voice for these are mere religiosity. For centuries religions have been used and abused by politicians for their own selfish ends. I don’t understand why Malaysia would want to work itself into that hole again unless we are dumb like this dumbo.
Is there a way to turn the situation into a situation of advantage for pakatan? Any idea?
“Is there a way to turn the situation into a situation of advantage for pakatan? Any idea?” -taiking
Easy. Let Hadi take his supporters over and join UMNO. Hadi will now be the nuisance for UMNO and thorn in BN’s side. All the call’s for ‘Islamic’ laws will now be coming from BN. And Hadi’s supporters now need to be given positions in the government, which will annoy some UMNO men who will now lose out on the getting of said positions.
taiking Says:
Today at 09: 49.37 (51 minutes ago)
Is there a way to turn the situation into a situation of advantage for pakatan? Any idea?
1)Do not fear those who are intent on using race and religion to further their selfish interest.
2)Do not come to the conclusion that allowing that faction of PAS and UMNO to come together and talk is dangerous for non-muslims(non-malays). For the outcome is far from clear.
3)Trust that wisdom will guide leader with good hearts to make the right decisions.
4)Trust that the trend towards non-communal politics will prevail over the old-styled politics of the communal politicians of yesteryear.
5)If you have the above presence of mind would you still be fretting over these bankrupt politicians who are out to exploit your fears?
6)If you are unmoved by their antics you will remain clear headed and wisdom will be in every decision and action you take.
In short there is no need to “turn the situation” into an advantage for to do so you are no better than those who are out to manipulate. Any effort to counter these unity proponents will only give them more strength to generate more fear and finally these fears become a self prophecy.
taiking Says: advantage for pakatan?
Yes, once every 5 years.
I think there’s an opportunity for an ideological split in PAS. The most likely outcome is an uneasy truce, as I doubt anybody in PAS would be able to overcome pride and give up being PAS. I don’t know. I think parties like Germany’s Christian Democratic Union is an anachronism – I’m surprised the EU still allows political parties with an overt religious affiliation. On the other hand, it would be fantastic to see Malaysian Muslims declare themselves to be fully behind democracy as the only inclusive political system for all Malaysia’s citizens and resolve to be fully committed to their faith in the discharge of their political responsibility towards all Malaysians, regardless of citizens’ faith.
Islamic Democrats, anyone? We need competent, principled people to run Malaysia. It’s a nation, not a place of worship (despite what the Rukun Negara says). Being a political leader is a job offered by the people, not a calling from God. If a group of people are helped by their religious conviction to be better politicians, that’s marvellous for all of us. The last thing we need is “we’re moderate really, vote for us”, only to reveal themselves as power-hungry conservatives as soon as the counting ends.
TomThumb asked “how different is a muslim malay from another muslim malay “?. My answer is plenty.For instance TDM sticks to only one wife,through he can afford to have three more. Certain sultan’s son just married an Indonesian beauty for the pleasure of torture,gosh she’s pretty smart and managed to excape.Certain malay millionaire simply married a muslim celebrity,threw a grand party,only to agree to a divorce in last than 6 months. PAS muslim malays are mostly islamic or islamists and some are extremist.A couple of dozens are good muslim eg Nik Aziz. Umno muslim malays top leaders are fanatic,corrupt,mean and hypocrites .The list goes on. I rather stop here and will reveal more should the needs arise.
It would be bad for democracy and a boost for corrupt practices if the unity talk aims at forming an enlarged BN. But the Muslims are perfectly entitled to have a unity talk ending in an enlarged UMNO and weakened PAS, in number, or an enlarged PAS and a weakened UMNO. All those who are envious of how UMNOputras became wealthy are free to join UMNO, and those who consider UMNO religious in political gain but a-religious in life would be free to join PAS. After the reshuffle, we shall hear less of the need of unity among Malays as though the Malays are ganging up against other races.
We are only against UMNO for usurping power; reading more meanings into the constitution that what it provides. For example, when a reasonable proportion of educational places mandated to be reserved for Malays and natives of Sabah and Sarawak, it did not mean 100 to 90% of the places to be reserved, and that it was to be reserved for Malays only. When Razak said that NEP was to be implemented for a generation, of 20 years, he did not say that so long as there are Malays driving for Chinese, the period ought to be extended. So the unity talk should aim at uniting Malays, of the same feathers, and not at weakening the resistance to corrupt practices.
Tok Guru wanted Pakatan to remain united and he suggested tat PKR and DAP join the talk so a form a damage control. If there are rots in PAS, let it show now. Tunku said that even when there were only a few MCA members remained he would still work with MCA. Pakatan should hold the same view and accepted the surgical remains of PAS. The current President and his deputy should be encouraged to leave PAS.
N41 Manek Urai would be tricky if PAS and UMNO go for friendly contest.
That happened once in Sabah’s General Election when PBS pulled out of BN in 1990 suddenly for the Parliament contests which turned out to be friendly contests and DAP lost out badly.
Is it UMNO’s desperate strategy to win this by election? After that PR would be betrayed byPAS.
pw: surprised Therefore
Now MCA deputy president Dr Chua Soi Lek @ porno actor has come out saying he’s confident proposed UMNO/PAS Malay unity talks as spelt out by Muhyiddin will not be detrimental to the non-Malays. But everyone knows he’s scared as hell to say the truth because Muhyiddin would just silence him. There’s a lot of unhappiness and fear among MCA members that their party will be sidelined even more. Muhyiddin does not give a damn for the feelings of OTK and what is left unsaid but understood by OTK and Chua SL that if they don’t like it, MCA can just leave the BN….Muhyiddin knows OTK too much concerned about his ministerial post and all its perks, so what can an idiot like him do, but to just quietly swallow the insult and move on.
“The list goes on. I rather stop here and will reveal more should the needs arise.” frankyapp
according to you there are pork eating malays, church and temple going malays praying to stone images of hanuman, kali and krishna, stone images guanyin and lu shing god of wealth, chang’e etc.
don’t stop. do go on.
” … it is best that religious are kept out of government and also be kept out as an intrusive guide to our daily life.”
[deleted]
TomThumb,it’s your words,not mind,please don’t put your words into my mouth.Please be polite.What I said is a fact.You can check it if you wish.Whatever list if I wish to add,you can be rest asure it’s factual. Please don’t create fire intentionally to hurt others. It may backfire.
that is one way to get you to focus on the meaning of what was actually written. if your argument is followed through then that would be how you appear to be saying. follow??
distorting the meaning of what was written through the magic of ‘cut and paste’ is not the way forward.
“how different is a muslim malay from another?” is a rhetorical question.
this is not an invitation to you to talk about universal values of right and wrong. it is wrong to assault another person. it doesn’t matter what religion you belong to. i