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All eyes on MCA Ministers in Cabinet today – censure Hamid for RPK ISA detention and harassment of Wee Meng Chee?

The formal detention of blogger Raja Petra Kamaruddin (RPK) hours before his habeas corpus application hearing at the Kuala Lumpur High Court yesterday is a gross violation of human rights, a blatant abuse of power and downright contempt of court by the Home Minister and a travesty of the rule of law in Malaysia.

One would have expected that being a lawyer by training, the Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar would have greater regard, respect and understanding of the principles of a just of rule and would not do anything to frustrate the legal process as in RPK’s habeas corpus application hearing yesterday. But Hamid has proved everyone wrong.

The Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail should explain whether he was privy to the Home Minister’s decision on Monday night to frustrate the legal process over RPK’s habeas corpus application hearing yesterday challenging the police detention under Section 73 of the Internal Security Act (ISA) by the simple but most cynical and irresponsible expedient of the Minister signing a formal detention order under Section 8 of the ISA.

Was the Attorney-General consulted and his agreement sought to this irresponsible ploy to frustrate RPK’s habeas corpus application and did he advise the Home Minister against such flagrant contempt of court and to trust in the impartiality and integrity of the judicial system to pronounce on the legality of the police detention of RPK under the ISA under Section 73?

Whose idea was it that the Home Minister should abuse his powers to expedite the formal detention of RPK under Section 8 of the ISA in order to frustrate RPK’s habeas corpus application, when RPK had been detained for only 10 days under Section 73 which provides for a 60-day police custodial detention?

All eyes are on the four MCA Ministers in Cabinet today – will they censure Hamid and demand immediate release of RPK under ISA?

This is because MCA Ministers and leaders have been going to town in the past few days declaring that the MCA will continue its call for the repeal or review of the ISA, in particular the comprehensive review of the draconian law to ensure that the ISA is applied strictly to cases relating to terrorism and subversive elements to prevent possible abuse of the law.

As the MCA Ministers and leaders have declared that RPK is not a suitable case for ISA detention, Malaysians want to know what the four MCA Ministers are going to do in Cabinet apart from making statements in the newspapers.

Are the MCA Ministers prepared to spearhead a decision in Cabinet dissociating Ministers from the contempt of court perpetrated by Hamid in his abuse of power under Section 8 of the ISA to frustrate RPK’s habeas corpus application as well as to demand the immediate release of RPK from Kamunting Detention Centre under the ISA?

The MCA Ministers should also raise in this morning’s Cabinet meeting the three-hour questioning of rapper Wee Meng Chee and express disapproval for any vindictive action against Wee for his “Negarakuku” rap video and to demand immediate end of police harassment of Wee.

If the police and the Attorney-General’s Chambers are not prepared to take action against the suspended Umno Bukit Bendera Chairman Datuk Ahmad Ismail for his offensive, provocative and racist “penumpang” reference to the Chinese in Malaysia, what justification can the police give for the harassment of Wee as subjecting him to questioning and possible prosecution under the Sedition Act?

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87 Replies to “All eyes on MCA Ministers in Cabinet today – censure Hamid for RPK ISA detention and harassment of Wee Meng Chee?”

  4. Whether ISA is retained, amended or repealed/abolished, the whole episode underscores the importance of an Independent Judiciary.

    Independent judges are the only protection citizens have as a bulwark against abuse of power and encroachment of their liberties by the those in power and authority.

    There was this case of Liversidge Vs Anderson in 1941 (England) facing the threat of Hitler’s blitz.

    Liversidge was detained under Defence Regulation 18-B, which something akin the language of our ISA, provided that ‘…if the secretary of state has reasonable cause to believe any person to be of hostile origin or association and that by reason thereof it is necessary to exercise control over him, he may make an order against that person directing that he be detained.’

    Liversidge filed a case for false imprisonment. The Home Secretary Anderson merely merely asserted that he (Anderson) had reasonable cause for the arrest.

    The issue was whether judges were independent enough of the Executive to dare review what the Home Secretary Anderson decided. Or judges were timid to defer to what Home Secretary decided and would assume, without further investigation, that what the Home Secretary must have been founded on good reasons beyond judicial review.

    This has got bearing with the invocation of ISA on RPK, the order for which was signed by our Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar ostensibly on grounds that RPK insulted Islam in his articles.

    It all boils down to the question whether the discretion of the Executive represented by the Home Secretary in the English case and the Home Minister in RPK case is absolute and beyond acountability and review or otherwise subject to safeguard of review by judges.

    In Liversidge Vs Anderson the House of Lords by Majority decided in favour of the Home Secretary.

    Malaysian laws – and ISA – have followed that English case even though that case no more represents the law of England today.

    To be fair to the majority of the House of Lords, their judgment was a judgment of those dangerous times when England was in the time of maximum peril.

    In September 1941, Hitler’s Rommel was taking over large swathes of Northern Africa; on the northern front, Germans invaded and were encircling Leningrad and Moscow; the Japanese invadede Malaya and Singapore; and the United States was yet to join the war with England alone facing German control of most of Europe, saved, for the time being, only by the moat, the English Channel.

    We’re not living in such times now.

  5. But even in those dangerous times of September 1941 there was a bold and independent judge, Lord Atkin whose lone dissenting judgement in Liversidge v Anderson has since created history and inspired every law student reading Administrative and Constitutional Law . There are 4 paragraphs of that dissenting judgment, passionately written, that have since then and over time become the benchmark of the importance of independent judges in upholding human rights and liberty….

    I quote here in full the words of Lord Atkin:

    (Quote)
    “I view with apprehension the attitude of judges who, on a mere question of construction, when face to face with claims involving the liberty of the subject, show themselves more executive- minded than the executive,….

    In England, amidst country the clash of arms the laws are not silent. They may be changed, but they speak the same language in war as in peace. It has always been one of the pillars of freedom, one of the principles of liberty for which, on recent authority, we are now fighting, that judges are no respecters of persons, and stand between the subject and any attempted encroachments on his liberty by the executive, alert to see that any coercive action is justified in law. In this case I have listened to arguments which might have been addressed acceptability to the court of King’s Bench in the time of Charles I.

    I protest, even if I do it alone, against a strained construction put upon words, with the effect of giving an uncontrolled power of imprisonment to the minister. To recapitulate the words have only one meaning. They are used with that meaning in statements of the common law and in statutes. They have never been used in the sense now imputed to them. …

    I know of only one authority which might justify the suggested method of construction. ‘When I use a word’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less’. ‘The question is’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean different things’. ‘The question is’, said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master that’s all”… [the question is whether the words ‘if a man has’ can mean ‘If a man thinks he has’, I am of the opinion that they can not , and the case should be decided accordingly.”

    (Unquote)

  6. Dear All,

    The current crop of MCA ministers are too weak to bring forward this agenda to the Cabinet. Ong Ka Ting has said it loud and clear in the past that he prefered to discuss sensitive matters in private. I have no idea the terms “private” meant to Ka Ting but one thing am certain was that Chua Soi Lek has came out to say that the current regime had been too quiet and it time to change.

  7. What happened to RPK and Meng Chee is of no concern to MCA. What Lim Kit Siang alleged to have said is more important. Everything Lim Kit Siang says would be reported to and recorded by Ong TK.

    For that matter if Malaysian become the subject of UMNO’s arrogance – not MCA’s problem, fat chance MCA dare to speak to Syed Hamid. If they take such task as one of their “coalition” and “political” responsibilities, MCA would have done that and other similar things ages ago. Forget about MCA is its role. Next election, bury MCA.

  8. The MCA will get the chance to walk the talk in today’s Cabinet Meeting by having the guts to stand up against Umno’s hegemony by censuring Albar and demand the immediate release of RPK under the ISA. And as YB Lim Kit Siang put it, “Are the MCA Ministers prepared to spearhead a decision in Cabinet dissociating Ministers from the contempt of court perpetrated by Hamid in his abuse of power under Section 8 of the ISA to frustrate RPK’s habeas corpus application as well as to demand the immediate release of RPK from Kamunting Detention Centre under the ISA?”

    As we all know, rapper Wee Meng Cheng has apologized to the Nation for his ‘Negarakuku’ video, yet he was grilled by the Police for 3 hours. What are the MCA ‘Big Mouths’ Liow Tiong Lai, Ong Tee Keat, Ng Yen Yen and Ong Ka Chuan going to say about this in the Cabinet meeting? This is the moment of Truth for the MCA. This is the time for MCA to break away from the shackles of Umno and put Umno in its’ place. The time has come for MCA to walk the talk or to shut their ‘Big Mouths’ for good.

  10. ‘In England, amidst country the clash of arms the laws are not silent.They may be changed, but they speak the same language in war as in peace.’. Jeffrey.

    Thanks Jeffrey for bringing up the case of Liversidge Vs Anderson in 1941 and highlighting it to show the contrast with which ISA is used in England which is at
    wartime at that time and Malaysia in time of peace with the communist insurgents long gone.Even then Liversidge is given a chance to have his case heard and one can even find a dissenting voice from Lord Atkin whose written judgement shows how liberty is valued and this can only come from a nation with a tradition with a great sense of fair play.This must be the basis for your making the statement that laws speak the same language in war as in peace. Unfortunately in Malaysia such sense of fair play is non existent,instead unquestioned conformity to authority is the order of the day.The government is completely aware of this Asian trait and therefore has found it convenient to turn this ISA into an instrument to perpetuate its hold on power.

  11. Did Raja Petra really write the articles on Malaysia Today? I found this rather shocking: –

    To all Malaysians:

    Raja Petra DID NOT write the articles in Malaysia Today. I hereby statutorily declare that I am the author of “MalaysiaToday” in all your websites” All the articles were written by me aka DatukGoh.com.

    Sorry to break your bubbles!!!

    All roads lead to BodohLand.com

  12. Slowly MCA is losing its relevance in Malaysia politics.

    The only sure-fire way to regain its standing is to get back to basics….to (really) speak out (loud and clear) for chinese rights!

    Until that happens, MCA can continue to be a ‘good doggie doggie’ and lick …..

  14. Thanks to MCA for fulfilling your Mission for UMNO for the past 50 years. May your ministers be blessed with all the wealth and status at the expense of poor marginalised people.

    Time has come for you to go and say good-bye.

    MCA, you have all my best wishes.
    Go and pack yourself.
    It is time to go!

  15. Kit:

    May I suggest that you stop the ongoing harassment of MCA. The rakyat know what is happening, and MCA is history as far as the Malaysian Chinese are concerned. Their “muteness” will be their legacy, and we should just let it be their swansong.

  16. 1. What YB Kit has highlighted in this blog thread is that RPK’s habeas corpus application, which stood a good chance of being successful on procedural ground to procure RPK’s release from police detention under Section 73 was wrongfully frustrated and superseded by Home Minister quickly signing the detention order and changing the detention to a permanent one in Kamunting under section 8 of ISA, which is outside judicial review/oversight.

    2. Is this unholy haste of Home Minister’s signing of detention order to place RPK’s detention by police under section 73 (within judicial review) quickly under that of Kamunting ISA detention under section 8 (outside judicial oversight) proper and legal?? ( when it is blatantly unfair) – that is the question.

    3. Eventually the question in 2 will be brought to the courts by RPK’s lawyers and the issue is whether our judges are brave to say that Hamid’s signing of detention under section 8 is improper.

    4. The message of Liversidge & Anderson is what Lord Atkins said – we need independent judges – not judges (in Atkin’s words who “show themselves more executive- minded than the executive”).

    5. That’s where the first importance of Law/judicial reforms liee, ISA or no ISA ….It is ultimately the judges, the referees, and how to interpret ISA, whether like lions or timid mouse – that makes the difference.

    It is sad that Datuk Zaid has thrown up his hands, and said he could do it – the reactionary elements around are just too many, & PM not giving support.

  17. Will MCA stand to justify the MALAYSIAN they represent? Private or openly is not important, what is important is that they have to stand on their thought during cabinet meeting or open debate. They shall not be relevant should they back out. Please remenber MCA represent MALAYSIA C.A.

  18. “what justification can the police give for the harassment of Wee as subjecting him to questioning and possible prosecution under the Sedition Act?”

    In BN, justification does not exist. They bully Wee because he is a “squatter” and also to remind us of our inferiority status.
    Ahmad? Oh, he belongs to the Ketuanan group and is above the Law.

  21. After 308 MCA decided to maintain a greater media presence and a higher public profile. They have been quite active in this aspect.

    But that is for show only. We all know that. They thought we all dont know.

    In cabinet meeting see what they say. Once a begger always a begger.

    But seriously, I think we ought to thank ahmad ismail for blasting the pendatang issue out into the open. Because of that we all can openly debate the issue (in the name of countering him) and even criticise many related aspects of that issue.

    Because of him we all know that the malay race is actually made up of fragment of races and that 90% of them are also pendatangs like us non-malays.

    Imagine if the issue was brought into the open not by a ahmad, but by say a chinese. More than one keris could have been raised by now.

  22. It’s really shocking to see what’s happened to RPK, and a terribly sad day for the principle of the freedom of expression. It is clear that the judiciary are under the bums of the ruling executive, and the whole farscical scenario has all got to do with Syde’s Law, along his gang of dinosaur-cronies, who happen to use the ISA as their personal property. What a sad and disturbing era for Malaysia, my heart bleeds for your country!

  24. WMC, also criticized the Chinese Msian in his video, for working like crazy to chase for material wealth and thus suggested them to learn from their Malay friends who take life easy.

    A large part of the video clip are in Hokkien/Mandarin. Many Chinese of other dialects could not understand the true message that WMC was trying to convey. Only people who know Hokkien, Mandarin, and BM can understand his song. (Few in Msia)

    The whole message the WMC tried to convey was that he loved his country very much even though he, like other non-Malays are unfairly treated. Also advised Chinese Msian to be positive, take the discrimination as an extra training for the Chinese youth.

  25. Please send Raya Cards or any post card to RPK to show our support for him:

    Y.M. Raja Petra Kamarudin
    Tempat Tahanan Perlindungan,
    34009 Kamunting,Taiping.
    Perak, Malaysia

    I bought a pack of 5 cards. Sent them all. My wife also sent.

    Let’s do this in our little ways, at least.

  27. We all know MCA has their constraints, let’s not put too much hope on them. Whatever they push for in the cabinet, it’s not going to change the end results. Is there anyway of getting international bodies to put pressure on the unruly decision makers to at least grant RPK a fair say?

  28. Heard Syed Hamid censured all his Cabinet colleagues saying he has reason to believe that they all in need of “protection” and “rehabilitation” so that they can all be turned into useful “members of society who could contribute to nation building”.

    Mumbled something about 8-1. Is that his prediction about Liverpool vs Chelsea?

  34. England have grown out of Liversidge and the prevailing law is that espoused by the minority judgement of Lord Atkin. But we are still stuck with Liversidge, with that “subjective” test that if the Minister is satisfied, the judge is not to interfere or infer otherwise.

    It is not a case where our judges are more executive than the executive but one where they are cowed by or are thinking and acting subservient to the executive. The focus should be on and the finger pointed at the judges for it is they who ultimately determine whether we have an independent judiciary.

    The majority of the present crop of judges being promoted from the Judicial Service and therefore ex-civil servants is unable or unwilling to assert that kind of independence necessary to give meaning to the Judiciary as a independent constitutional institution whose most important function is to uphold constitutionalism and protect the subject from the excesses of the Executive by controlling and limiting executive actions.

    The execuitive everywhere not just in Malaysia being human wants absolute power and it is the job of the Judiciary to control and limit the use of executive power. Even if Parliament enacts a law with a provision that the use by the Executive of that law is not to be subject to judicial review, still the Judiciary has to be independent enough and jealously guard its constitutional function and significance by finding ways out of that restriction and assert its role of being the arbiter of what is right or wrong between the executive and the subject. Take that judicial power away or if the judiciary gives way easily to the arrogance of the Executive, there will be no one else to protect or provide protection to the subject.

    In RPK’s case, while the black letters of the ISA require only the satisfaction of the Minister as to the reasons or grounds for detention without trial, I still think there should be a collective Executive decision which means that the matter should be discussed in a Cabinet meeting and a collective decision made after a vote has been taken before such drastic Executive action can be taken.

    We just cannot have the liberty of a subject be determined by just one other person. Events have proven over and over again that we just cannot trust the impartiality and the objectiveness of the decision of only one Minister. It is just too dangerous and the danger is compounded many folds over if the right to judicial review is statutorily curbed or if the Judiciary for whatever reason does not or would not assert its independence and constitutional role and decline to question that Ministerial decision.

    If we have a bad judgement from a less than impartial judge, there is the avenue of appeal and the law and principle of stay of execution we can resort to and ultimately, for major cases at least, we have the benefit of our case being decided by a panel of judges. But it seems certain that short of a political upheaval resulting in the installation of a PR government, RPK’s fate and liberty will hinge on the decision of just one man. And one with a very dubious reputation of being fair or intelligent.

    As for the MCA censuring Hamid, I think they would not even talk about RPK’s detention in the Cabinet for fear of being themselves censured and admonished for interfering in Islamic affairs. After all, RPK’s detention is premised on the allegations of insulting Islam.

  35. What! YB Kit, did I read you right when you ask the 4 MCA Ministers to censure Hamid and demand immediate release of RPK under ISA.You have to be kidding or you are probably not in the state of mind for even the mere mentionof suggesting to them to persuade Hamid to change his mind and revoke the signing of detention under section 8 of the ISA would have made them cower with their tails behind their legs!

  36. Mr. Lim , when are you taking over the government? people are getting restless and angry- some of them felt cheated others lost their confidence of pakatan rakyat! what is happening Mr. Lim? why everything seems slowed down? Do you all really has the 30mps? or no? it gives very negative feelings towards PR. 16th sept came and went , 23rd sept came and went..now what? i had so much of trust in PR at the beginning.. i thought our life will change … PR is our Saviour!! but unfortunately , it turn out to be something else……im very disappointed Mr. Lim…..

  38. Now we are seeing the evil BN in full color. Over and over again we are allowing the PM and that Botak to supersede and frustrate the Law. The latest blatantly unfair move to detain RPK permanently is evil, very evil. With such evils running the Government we the rakyat will be going through hard times. We are being bullied, silenced and some are jailed. And don’t ever think that only the Chinese and Indians are marginalise and suffering, we see that the Malays are suffering the same fate. The Malays, Chinese and Indians are but sadly in the same boat…suffering the same fate.
    So, how on earth are we going to overcome all these? We had pin our hopes on Anwar. Like it or not Anwar is the most qualified at the moment to lead us through this journey against the BN. However unlike all journeys this one is treacherous, we can see how treacheorus the journey is since the BN lost the 5 states. Anwar has to defend all the way from accusations after accusations, from sodomy, anti Malay, being US agent and the latest rumored that he may be ISAed.

    Yes It is shocking, how a minister with a trained lawyer backgroung practise such ruthless tactics of imprisonment without trial, such abuse of power and invade our liberties. We must record such abuses and demand full accountability.

  41. 1) Syed Hamid definitely knows the law of the land and hence, gross abused and manipulation of it. He is making a mockery of the judicial system. This man have no principle, dignity and soul. I pity his family and children.
    2) MCA will be keeping their mouth shut so tight even air cannot flow thru during the cabinet meeting, that’s a given! They know how to talk, talk and more talk but carry no weight.
    3) I pity Namewee despite his apology and the case was 1 year ago, why bring this up again? Doesn’t the government and police have better thing to do? This case will be used as a whip by UMNO on MCA for not towing the line in ISA and AhMAD Ismail issues. Gerakan will also kena lah.

  42. It’s not a surprise that Malaysia’s TI CIP rating drop again. What do you expect when you send the police after a boy that have publicly appologise for his mistake but not even dare to touch a single hair of an arrogant a****** who have openely make racist remarks and refuse to appologise. This is what Malaysia have becomes today. IMHO, the justice system is dead. The one we saw nowadays is only a tool for one dude to misuse so that he can get rid of another.
    So often have we heard of credit card / car loan fraud stories. One guy suddenly get a call from the bank that he had taken a loan for car when he doesn’t even have a driving license. Or a guy who have never apply for a credit card suddenly got a call from the bank that he owe the bank thousand of ringgits in credit card debts. Soon, with the new DNA Bill, we are going to hear some more scapegoat stories. A guy who just had his hair cut but forgot to collect back each and every strand end up in jail for a murder of another guy who he had never met.
    This is the justice system in our beloved country today. Laws are no longer passed to benefit the society but instead misuse again and again for personal gain. The people who swore to represent us can only talk and talk and talk and talk. No action whatsoever. Just talk. Plain talk. It’s time to walk the talk. I don’t want to just see smoke. Show me some fire dude… IF you still have the balls. I hope so but ironically, I doubt so. Their balls is long gone. Many many many years back. Lets just hope that they still have their spine. Wake up MCA !!!

  43. yup, 23 come and gone. Too much of an ISA talk, how about the follow-up meeting by PR when the emergency call of Parliment meet was rejected flat? PR has sidelined what their own component parties can do and instead, banking (and banging) 100% on other component parties to make things happen.

  44. Those spineless, selfish and talk only MCA bums will be waging their tails in the coming cabinet meeting.
    Dont waste time telling them what to do.
    Baldie the toad will be there with a whip to make sure that they ddd=dudok diam diam.

  45. What for waste time on four MCA Ministers as if they could do anything to help Raja Petra Kamarudin (RPK)? Let’s try to look for something more concrete.

    Anwar & his lawyers are back today to argue before Sessions judge SM Komathy Suppiah whether the AG’s application for a transfer of Anwar’s sodomy case from Session Court to High Court should or should not be allowed.

    Anwar’s defence team objected to the transfer being signed by attorney-general (AG) Abdul Gani Patail. Their objection was based on the ground that the AG should not have played any role in this case as he was being investigated following a complaint by Anwar that the had tampered with evidence in Anwar’s cases 10 years ago.

    The principle here is that when a qausi judicial or administrative decision is made by an officer like the AG, it should not only be actually free from bias but also to be seen as free from a real possibility of bias.

    This is fundamental principle to avoid “conflict of interest” in decisions or participation in decisions. For example a director having a personal interest in a contract ought to excuse himself and not participate in board of directors’ deliberation to approve the contract.

    The general principle is that if a decision-maker has some interest in the matter being determined then it will fail the test of impartiality – not that actual bias need be proven but the likely possibility of bias is enough to vitiate that decision by the interested party.

    It will be interesting to see how Sessions judge SM Komathy Suppiah would decide and whether she would uphold the test of impartiality above stated.

    For it will have bearing also on RPK’s ISA case as here it was the Home Minister Dato Seri Syed Hamid who personally signed the ISA detention order under section 8 of the ISA incarcerating RPK for 2 years.

    This is what RPK said : “The Monday before my detention, my lawyers sent Syed Hamid Albar a letter of demand, demanding that he apologise for alleging that I insulted Islam. He was given three days to apologise and on Friday, the 12th of September 2008, instead of apologising, they detained me under the ISA” – see link here : http://bloggingr4life.blogspot.com/2008/09/heads-they-win-tails-i-lose.html

    On 9th Sept RPK’s solicitors Arbain & Co had sent Hamid a letter of demand, demanding apology and suitable recompense in 3 days or else legal proceedings would be commenced against Hamid for libel.

    Hamid therefore has a ‘personal interest’ upon such a letter of demand being given to him. He is not entirely a disinterested party influenced only by what police advised regarding threat to national security.

    When he signed the ISA detention order against RPK could be said that – apart from question of actual bias – he could be seen to be absolutely free from real possibility of bias against RPK????

    The answer is no. He would fail the test of impartiality.

    On this ground alone the ISA detention order signed by him personally cannot be allowed to stand in law as valid exercise of ministerial discretion (passing the impartiality test), and RPK should be freed!

  46. where’s our human rights be? get imprisoned without any trial??! this is ridiculous!

    any alternatives to speed up the gov takeover? This is crucial in preventing any further wrong doing/ judgement keep happening..as when Abdullah has switched to be our Ministry of Defence, things turned complicated…

    A comprehensive review on ISA is the foremost, no doubt!

  50. ‘It will be interesting to see how Sessions judge SM Komathy Suppiah would decide and whether she would uphold the test of impartiality above stated.’. Jeffrey.

    Perhaps it might be more appropriate to ask if Komathy has the gumption to uphold impartiality for to do that will definitely require strength of conviction that
    will not allow itself to be influenced by other powers bent on advancing their own cause.

  51. It is as trite as it is commonsensical – and I take it to be self evident truth – that any person, whether AG or a Minister or any decision-making body, that has something personally to gain or lose by the outcome of making that decision should not be allowed to make it, especially when it involves something as fundamental as the freedom and liberty of a Malaysian subject.

    And if he has already made that decision or sign that order under conditions that did not satisfy the rudimentary conditions of being free from bias or the likelihood of such bias, then that decision or order signed should be rescinded, struck down or vitiated as failing to comply the fairness or impartiality test.

    This kind of notions that decisions should be free from bias or seen free from possibility of bias – and decisions should be free from conflicts of interest – are embedded in our conscious as well as subconcious minds regarding what is fair and just.

    Such issues are not the exclusive province of philosophers or great legal jurists and minds.

    The common man, average man – even the illiterate man – can grasp the simple truth that a person having a personal interest in a matter cannot make an objective decision on it based on merits of the facts and law.

    Having regard to human nature, a person in conflict of interest position should not be allowed to make it.

    For to allow him to do so, especially when that decision affects weighty issues affecting another liberty and freedom of another person whom the decsion maker has a beef or grievance against – is manifestly and potentially unfair and unjust to the first mentioned person whose liberty is curtailed.

    Unless our law factors the above principle into consideration and upholds it, the law won’t be just and people will not respect the law by reason that it is not just.

    Then the people who have administered the law in such an unfair way that make people lose trust and confidence in the administration of the law – they are the ones who have really committed acts of sedition by making people lose trust in the law.

  55. cheng on, you said:

    “WMC advised Chinese Msian to be grateful to Msia govt for giving them “extra training” in preparing them for life challenges? ”

    – I agree, alot of wits in it. Nothing wrong with his message of wisdom, his expression from the heart and soul. I think much has to do with his body language that was expected when doing a rap. It was rather crude. Had it been done in a ballad form, don’t think anyone would have bothered noticing him.

  56. Will MCA ministers bring up RPK’s detention in the Cabinet meeting?

    It is pertinent to ask, “Does a dog dare to bark at its master?”

    It may bark behind its master’s back or bark at others in front of its master to prove its worth but it will definitely not bark at its master.

    MCA are all lapdogs, barking in the press to show their worth but worthless in taking real action.

    Although I’m no fan of Samy Vellu, I respect him for meeting the PM personally to press for Hindraf 5 release. At least he’s one notch above the MCA lapdogs.

  59. Kit,

    Personally, I think your strategy of attacking MCA and making MCA the attention of focus is wrong.

    If you attack UMNO relentlessly, there will be a continuously off-tail sparks hitting MCA. After a while the heat from the sparks will be too much to bear and MCA will have no choice but to take action on UMNO to prevent the sparks flying off from UMNO.

    But if you focus on MCA, not only will MCA enjoy the limelight and attention given to it, but like a snake being cornered, will recoil and strike back at you. When it happens, UMNO will just fold its arms on the side line and enjoy the side show stupidly put up by two chinese parties!

    My advice is to concentrate your continuous relentless attacks on UMNO. Don’t waste your energy unnecessarily on MCA. It is not the same as before because the table has already turned on MCA – more chinese now trust and vote for DAP than MCA.

    You got to change your mindset in changing circumstances! Forget about MCA, Gerakan or MIC! Don’t use old strategies for new problems which UMNO is presently doing. And I am not giving this free advice to UMNO.

  61. MCA show your sincerity.If you really care for the Rakyat in general and the Chinese in particular.Tell your tai ko,UMNO(racist bigots), that you want the ISA repealed and all those detained be released immediately. If Tai Ko refuse to listen, withdraw from the coalition just like what SAPP did.This is what I called having the guts. Otherwise stop your whining the people are already fed up with this show.They want action.

  62. *** k1980 Says:

    Forget about MCA, Gerakan or MIC? umno survives to this very day because of support from MCA, Gerakan and MIC!***

    MCA, Gerakan and MIC’s numbers in BN were greatly diminished in the last GE. UMNO survives to this day is because of the BN component parties in Sabah and Sarawak; not MCA, Gerakan or MIC.

    Last time MCA was big (seats in Parliament) and DAP was small. You play a certain strategy – focusing on a Goliath by taking small pot shots. Now DAP is big and MCA is small, do you still employ the same strategy or is it time to use a new strategy? Why would DAP want to increase the visibility of a dwarf who was once a giant?

    All I say is DAP should be innovative and not use old strategies in changing circumstances. By entering into a quarrel with MCA will only benefit UMNO more than DAP. The chinese are mostly now on the side of DAP. There’s no longer need to employ the old strategy of running down an opponent to fish for chinese votes. It should now be MCA who should be playing that game now, not DAP.

    Look at the Teresa’s ISA case. Unwittingly, because of the dog food criticism brought up, the focus in the media is now on the food rather than the injustices of ISA.

    The chinese should unite not splitted further; Then we will have a real chance of removing this corrupt UMNO once and for all!

  63. YB Kit siang,
    I concur with 9to5,leave those desperados(MCA,MIC,Gerakan,etc) alone.They are a spent force.You should concentrate your attack on the racists,UMNO.From the replies received over the last few months just from your mailbox alone,you find that harshest comments are mainly reserved for the bigots.Why waste your time on the others when they are of no consequence to you or DAP.Go on the offensive.Show no mercy!

  65. Sorry if Anwar can not help now then we have to have an alternative plan of action to free RPK. Remember when Anwar said he has a number of PKR parliments seats to choose from for a re-entry to Parliment.

    What better time is now then to have one of the opposition MP resign his or her seat and force a by-election. This way we can see if they are willing to help and payback the support RPK has given to the opposition parties. Get RPK to stand as a Independent or a PR candidate supported by all PR parties. He should not stand for PKR , DAP , PAS ,or PS but as a apolitical candidate. support his and make sure the BN candidate looses his or her deposit. This will remind BN how unpopular they are.

    The ball is now in PR’s court and what do you all say

  66. MCA, Gerakan, and MIC cabinet ministers are there at the courtesy and mercy of Umno.

    Sooooo so grateful alreadii. How to speak up during the cabinet meeting against Hamid over RPK ISA detention and harassment of Wee Meng Chee?

  67. A govt consists of 3 separate branches: legislative, executive, judiciary. Each such f unction separately without interference. The home minister is clearly interfering. A govt who does not respect law is no longer a lawful and should resign en block. This govt is setting bad precedence. They have no moral basis to continue to rule.

  68. Anyone involved in subversive activities that are detrimental to the social stability and peace of a country needs to be dealt with. I don’t think any country would compromise their security in the name of civil liberties.

  69. MCA Cabinet Ministers famous phrase among themselves.

    “They know it’s not fair: unjust, imperfect, victimizing; Yet they give “place” to it, even give lip service to it and worship it, enforce it, as if it were Godly.”

  70. (1) Despite all the curse and anger, MCA’s ministers are happily sleeping in the cabinet for 50 years …

    (2) My advise, DO NOT curse MCA.

    (3) Let’s thanks MCA for what he has done to the people.

    (4) And launch a farewell party to our MCA ministers.

    (5) To MCA … good luck and bye bye!!!

  71. kiren Says:

    Today at 12: 02.00 (6 hours ago)

    Mr. Lim , when are you taking over the government? people are getting restless and angry- some of them felt cheated others lost their confidence of pakatan rakyat! …

    … it gives very negative feelings towards PR. 16th sept came and went , 23rd sept came and went..now what?

    **************

    With all due respect, kiren, your restlessness and anger is clearly and obviously misdirected.

    If there is one person or groups of individuals that you should be angry and express your anger, it should be against the ruling Government for abusing their powers for personal gains than acting in what should be in the best interest for Rakyat over the next 4.5 years.

    On my part, there was no major negative impression, as I had always treated 916 as symbolic and not literally. And so it is with 923. We knew Abdullah will never just give up his powers just like that, but Anwar have to go through the motions anyway just to clearly show the entire nation that he has examined every single avenue, before he goes to the King. This assumes he still has the numbers.

    If not, then, let’s judge Anwar accordingly later whether he lied. But at this point in time, I am of the opinion that we just don’t have enough data to conclusively judge this yet, that Anwar didn’t have the numbers. The only objective conclusion is that we still don’t know yet.

    Notwitstanding this, let’s not judge Anwar just based on this 916 date, or this 31+ MPs number. Let’s not forget the atrocities committed by the ruling BN Government. Let’s not forget that Pakatan Rakyat is attempting to right what has been wronged. Let’s not forget that the wrongs committed by the ruling Government remains “wrong”, even if Anwar failed to meet 916, and so, the wrongs deserved to be condemned by all right-thinking Malaysians, even if Anwar don’t have the 31+MPs. Yes, if Anwar don’t have the 31+MPs, then, he is also “wrong”, but how “wrong” is this when compared to the huge corruptions, the huge abuses of ISA, the huge mismanagement done by the ruling Government?

    Let’s keep these things – 916 & 31 MPs – in their proper perspectives.

  73. mca will say nothing at all about the ISA issue because when a king bite a nail in his mouth, he can’t talk! (ong ka ting). Uncle Lim, if you bring up this ISA topic with mca, they will run far far away (ng yen yen), biting hard-holding onto their getaway boat (ong ka chuan) with their tails between their legs – before being pursuit by their BeeNed boss calling “liow tiong lai”.

  74. Hiyaaaa Those MCA people only bark to show the rakyat only .In actual fact when they are in the cabinet meeting they are the first to chicken out and hide in the cabinet.You people don’t know ahhhhh.The hokkien people say ” ai heow phor lan pah “knows how to carry people’s balls only.Hiyaa fed up nak comment lagi senang saja suruh dia orang pi mampus.

  76. Its easy to elaborate actualy, ” WHY” after 51 years MCA/Gerakan still ongoing with BN’d cronies?

    lets us compromised between these two:

    1) MCA/Gerakan…. DO they get paid for their works?… YES!

    2) Does MCA/Gerakan visualy seen as extortionist and opportunist to gain wealth?… YES!

    3) Are MCA/Gerakan was chinese perpetrator by selling out our rights when they stands in shadows by their masters (UMNOputras) claim chinese are Squatters/ISA’d etc. Why they didn’t dare to boycott uplift UMNOputras wrong doing? Coward!?

    On other hands:
    1) Does DAP get paid monthly after 51years of hardwork to warship OUR RIGHTS as Malaysian Chinese? NO!

    2) Does DAP sacrifised had turn them ISA’d victims without Much Nation cared in the past? YES! Cuz they lost by the media role unlike today…

    3) Will you do it without salary by risking yourself for years in battle with the BN cronies and ISA’ed instead? i know MCA nor Gerakan members won’t!…

  78. js, well if RPK shows signs of improvement through religious rehabilitation that JAKIM will be conducting, he will be released sooner than 2 years. Director-general Datuk Wan Mohamad Sheikh Abdul Aziz said the programme was aimed at enabling the faster release of Muslim detainees.

  80. Raymond Tan of SAPP said he was the one who stopped PM from arresting Yong Teck Lee. So we now know it’s the choice of BN politicians and ministers and not the rule of law that applied when dealing with offence. RPK’s detention is another such decision of a minister who defy basic human rights and principle of law.

    And he is the home minister we have…

    For me I don’t even regard him as human being anymore!

  81. pulau_sibu Says:

    Yesterday at 12: 13.33
    All Malaysian Chinese should vote and see who are representing them.
    UMNO, MCA or ….?

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Pulau Sibu ,
    May be should rephrase it as “All malaysian chinese should vote &
    see the chinese want which party to reprsent them” ???

  82. I Malaysian, “basic human rights” go out of the window when there is a very real risk to national stability and social order. No country who compromise on their internal security in the name of human rights. As for the “principle of law”, ISA safeguards the principles of law; this may sound contradictory but every nation has a mechanism to ensure continuity where there is danger.

  83. RPK does not share the same views as his ‘muslim brothers’ in UMNO. And that makes him dangerous. He must therefore be silenced to maintain the peace and harmony. For this is the true path of universal peace. When everyone is of one mind and thought. Then all wars in the world shall end.

  84. katdog Says:

    >> RPK does not share the same views as his ‘muslim brothers’ in UMNO. And that makes him dangerous.

    Not quite. In fact he has been disagreeing with others for the past few years and no action has been taken against him. It is only when he defames, slanders and disparages the fundamental Islamic tenets and values which has got him into trouble. The fact that he proclaims to be a Muslim is of no significance, his words and writings say it all.

    Like the heretical Ahmadiyah religion in Indonesia, if they claim to be Muslim that it is verified through their creed. They can not call themselves Muslim on one hand and go against the very foundations of Islam that establish a Muslim’s identity.

    So you see, your understanding is flawed to say the least because there is no political conspiracy against RPK, he is more than capable of landing himself in prison through his irresponsible and blasphemous writings. If he stuck with his political agenda, this would have been better for him but no, he decided to touch upon religion and decided to disparage Islam and it’s Prophet.

    Night night.

  85. Zak, Zak, Zak. No political conspiracy against RPK? How naive. Of course his arrest had been politically motivated.

    Whether or not he really disparaged Islam and it’s prophet, i cannot judge since i don’t really know the true teachings of Islam and therefore do not know what is considered as blasphemous.

    But from his writings i do know that he was never trying to preach or establish some other sect of Islam. Nor was he trying to disparage Islam in anyway.

    He has already made his reasoning clear. He was trying to point out the hypocrisy of many of these so called ‘defenders’ of Islam. They would raise arms in loud furor when a someone questions the teachings of Islam claiming that Islam has been insulted. However, these same people stand idly by when gross injustices, bribery corruption and thievery occur right in front of them.

    These ‘defenders’ make loud noises when someone questions the teachings of Islam, but cares not when these very same teachings are violated?

  86. zak_hammaad Says:

    September 25th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 15: 55.32
    “…..“basic human rights” go out of the window when there is a very real risk to national stability and social order. No country who compromise on their internal security ..”

    How dumb can you get??

    This is not an issue over ‘threat to national security’ – what is a ‘threat to national security’ anyway? Who says what is and what is not?

    It is all about the presumption of innocence – a human rights issue. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you are accused of a crime let’s see the evidence. You do not detain somebody solely on your belief that a crime has occured. What of the constitutional rights of the individual – right to a speedy trial among them?

  87. MCA – Molotov Cocktail Associates! Hahahaha! They speak up against their political masters? All they know how to do is mark their territory with their piss. Raise one leg here, then the other leg there. Thank god, the average misled Chinese are now wiser and have decided not to let MCA piss on them anymore. Let us all not forget, it was Chew May13 Fun who took a spin on Kerishamuddin’s keris waving antics and warned the Chinese against supporting the opposition lest another series of molotov cocktail party erupts. Then, MCA got wiped out in Selangor. Now molotov cocktail has happened against Teresa Kok, what will they do? As they have always done – piss on it.

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