by Martin Jalleh
Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar believes it is his prerogative and position to preach to the Catholic community in Bolehland on what they should and should not believe in.
“Religion and politics should not mix”– he pontificates. This is ludicrous especially coming from a Minister whose political party’s interpretation of its own religion has politicised almost everything in Bolehland.
The Home Minister hops on the bandwagon of the horde of “little mullah napoleons” (LMNs) in the country to dominate, dictate, decide and even define what non-Muslims can and cannot discuss, deliberate on, and display in print.
He joins the LMNs in his ministry in hounding The Herald. He says he was not aware of the instructions by his Ministry to decide whether to suspend or revoke The Herald’s publication permit, yet he decides to threaten the publication.
An official in his ministry had said that Herald may have its permit suspended if it goes ahead and publishes an editorial on the Permatang Pauh by-election, because an editorial on the by-election was a topic under current affairs and politics (Star, 13.08.08).
Yet, as was pointed out by The Herald’s editor Father Lawrence Andrew, the officer had not even seen the editorial. Yet he had the audacity to issue such a threat. And as it had turned out the editorial was only asking people to pray for a just and fair by-election.
So now it appears the LMNs even feel they have the right to tell adherents of faiths other than Muslim what they can or cannot pray for!
Rites & Rituals
“If you are to write on religion, then you are supposed to touch on matters pertaining to questions on rituals, adherence to God, followers and anything related to your divine mission.
“If you go beyond that, definitely you have committed some breaches,” so declared Syed Hamid when responding to questions from reporters on The Herald being given a show-cause letter and several warning letters for writing on politically-related issues and events.
In response to Syed Hamid’s hype the Catholic Lawyers’ Society of Kuala Lumpur homed in on the fact that “(u)ltimately, the interpretation of what constitutes religious matters should be left to the leaders and adherents of the faith”.
In a recent press statement, its president Mabel Sabastian said that the reporting in The Herald was “in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church in social and political charity”.
“The Home Ministry is not in a position to dictate to the Catholics (or for that matter, the proponents of any other faith) the scope of their religion,” she drove home the point.
“In seeking to control the contents of The Herald, the Home Ministry’s warning and show-cause letters go against Article 3 (1), Article 10(1)(a) and Article 11(3)(a) of the Federal Constitution, that is, the right to freely practise one’s religion, the general freedom of speech and expression and the right of a religious group to manage its own affairs.”
“Such controls will deprive the Catholic community of current information and education in relation to their faith. Such an act by the authorities is tantamount to curtailment of religious freedom,” she concluded.
Dangerous dichotomy
Contrary to the narrow and naïve definition of religion by Syed Hamid, the Catholic Church teaches that her religion must go beyond the realm of rites, rubrics and rituals and be one that seeks to respond radically to her “divine mission”.
In fact, the Catholic Church has warned her adherents of having a religion that is “nothing more than the fulfillment of acts of worship and the observance of a few moral obligations”.
She calls the “compartmentalization” of faith (as dictated by Syed Hamid), “one of the gravest errors of our time”. She says that “the dichotomy between the faith which many profess and their day-to-day conduct” is vehemently denounced in the Bible.
Catholics are taught not to view their faith as a purely private affair. It may be true that there are personal dimensions of faith but there are also social dimensions that require believers to live and take their faith into the public and political arena.
Indeed, far from pietism and personalized salvation, the Catholic faith is profoundly social. “We cannot be called truly “Catholic” unless we hear and heed the Church’s call to serve those in need and work for justice and peace,” a Church document succinctly puts it.
In sharp contrast to the narrow perspective of the Home Minister, the Catholic church also believes in carrying out its “divine mission” in solidarity with others. It proclaims that “no matter our national, racial, ethnic, economic or ideological differences, we have a global commitment to love our neighbors and to work for justice.”
“We also have a commitment to work towards a just, even and fair development of our world, where no one society is exalted materially above the rest, and no other society is left, quite literally, in the dust. Development must respect the rights of all nations and their people, always promoting the moral, cultural and spiritual dimensions of each person.”
If Syed Hamid is sincere and serious about religion being related to “your divine mission” then he can find no fault with The Herald which has only been reporting and reminding Catholics of their divine mission – which is the same as Jesus’ divine mission of bringing “good news to the poor, liberty to captives, and new sight to the blind” (Luke 4:18) – a mission that clearly and inevitably and ultimately involved the political realities of his time.
The Catholic Church also teaches that “(t)he members of the Church, as members of society, have the same right and duty to promote the common good as do other citizens. Christians ought to fulfill their temporal obligations with fidelity and competence. They should act as a leaven in the world, in their family, professional, social, cultural and political life” (Justice in the World).
As an organ of the Catholic Church in Malaysia it is The Herald’s responsibility and even sacred duty to keep Catholics informed and involved in playing an active role as citizens of this country –and this logically includes the political sphere too.
Wisdom & Will
The ignorance displayed by Syed Hamid is so reminiscent of what the Prime Minister had warned us of when he opened the “International Conference on Religion in The Quest for Global Justice and Peace”, in July this year.
He had called on religious scholars and intellectuals to engage with the wider public in order for them to play a vital role in “combating ignorance and the perversion of religion” and “in broadening public understanding of religion, and its role in promoting justice and peace,”
“Our religious education should convince us that the dignity and integrity of all human beings is worthy of our respect. Religion should inculcate a truly universal and inclusive outlook, not a mentality that is narrow, exclusive and parochial,” Pak Lah added.
Pak Lah also stressed that there is “the need to amplify the role of the media in promoting a universal and inclusive dimension of religion that focused upon justice and peace”. Will this point by the PM hit home, Mr. Home Minister?
Perhaps there is no better statement by the PM himself that exonerates The Herald, affirms what it has been doing, and spurs the publication on to continue to translate into reality its “divine mission” than the following:
“Journalists and media practitioners in general should deepen and broaden their understanding of religion, in order to play a more effective role in advancing the universal values of justice, peace and compassion which lie at the heart of our great religious philosophies.”
Come this 31st August, may we be able to truly celebrate our freedom from all religious narrow-mindedness. May God grant to the adherents of each faith, the wisdom, will and way to live out fully their divine mission for the good of all. Merdeka!
(20 August 2008)
the police and aca has never been so efficient and responsive.
the opposition will be scrutinized and tailed.
beware of entrapment.
be whiter than white, purer than pure.
Malaysiakini:
“Those who organised the forum are non-Muslims and how can they talk about something like that? This has hurt the feelings of the country’s Muslim population,” said Zulkifli Noordin in Parliament.”
very touchy, hyper-sensitive, intolerant, one-sided attitude for a pkr man.
“If you are to write on religion, then you are supposed to touch on matters pertaining to questions on rituals, adherence to God, followers and anything related to your divine mission.
“If you go beyond that, definitely you have committed some breaches.”
Ha ha ha, someone never failed to amuse each time he opens his mouth!
UMNO has politicised their religion in all aspects during its rule as BN. Religion should never have been a part of politics, but who are we, the multi-cultural and multi-religious rakyat, to say this? BN suppression on the freedom of religious expression for 51 years!
Isn’t the recent UiTM student protest related to religion indirectly? Malay aka islamic supremacy? Immaturity at its lowest level!
Enough said! 2020 developed nation? Sounds more like an eternity!
Don’t waste precious time listening to this person with no substance.
The bloggers should have a poll to vote which minister will win the wooden spoon of the year….I will never have any doubt, Syed Hamid will win it hands down!
This traffic controller, Home Minister, has no moral standing to comment on religious affairs…full of bankrupt substance in his botak head!
Religion cannot mixed with politics. Yes, it may be true, but what has UMNO done when it mixed Saifool swearing on the Quoran? We have sodomee, a new polireligious faith propagated by UMNO, now trying to draw adherents from the people of PP with its daily screening and ceramah!
I think it is like never ending story. No matter what we say and write it matters nothing to this man and his colleagues.
The least we could now is to work hard for major victory in Permatang Pauh. A victory that comes with 20,000 majority or more.
Article 3
1. Islam is the religion of the Federation; but other religions may be practised in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.
Article 10
Subject to Clauses (2), (3) and (4) –
(a) every citizen has the right to freedom of speech and expression;
Article 11
Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion and, subject to Clause (4), to propagate it.
Every religious group has the right –
(a) to manage its own religious affairs;
If one is not catholic why bother to read the Herald, if u don’t like DAP why comment in this blog. The news is for Catholics. Does Syed Hamid Albar want to control what they preach inside the church? If u know its XXXX will u go in to see what they show then only object? Is the Herald circulated for free? If u have to pay will u buy? If u are not catholic then u buy only to cause trouble cause u are the home minister!
Any idea what his portfolio would be after Pakatan form the next federal government?
Maybe he might get out of politics for good and become a caddy for Saiful.
“It’s a hole-in-bum sir.”
Let not the “crab” which walks sideways teach anyone else to “walk straight”!!!!!!!!
So, Syed Hamid bin Syed Jaafar Albar again huh? The second generation Malaysian borned to the first generation Malaysian.
And huh, oh yes, Syed Hamid is of Hadrami Arab descent. But in Malaysia, he is a Malay.
A bit of history. His father, Syed Jaafar bin Hassan Albar, the first generation Malaysian, was labelled an ultra.
Back in 1964, there was a race riot in Singapore. Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Race_Riots
Singapore Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew and several other foreign observers attributed the riots as the result of agitation by Syed Jaafar Albar and other elements of the ultra-nationalist faction in UMNO. According to the Australian Deputy High Commissioner, W.B. Pritchett:
“…there can be no doubt that UMNO was solely responsible for the riots. Its members ran the communal campaign or allowed it to happen.”[2]
The riots occurred during the period when the PAP-UMNO relations were severely strained after the People’s Action Party challenged the UMNO in the March 1964 Malaysia federal election with the campaign slogan of Malaysian Malaysia.
….. so now, we are facing the second generation Malaysian huh? the state of our nation today can be summed up by this event:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Jaafar_Albar
Lee accused Albar of being an “ultra” for making remarks such as “Wherever I am, I am a Malay.” Lee excoriated him for this, asking “If I had been going round and saying what [he] has been saying — wherever I am, I am a Chinese — where would we be? But I keep on reminding the people that I am a Malaysian. I am learning Bahasa Kebangsaan (Malay, the national language) and I accept Article 153 of the Constitution.”[6]
… enough is enough. this 51st Merdeka, we emphasise on the dark blue canton in Jalur Gemilang that spells PERPADUAN or MALAYSIAN UNITY!
regardless of race and religion, the dark blue canton in Jalur Gemilang must reign supreme this year! MALAYSIAN UNITY!
and huh …. maybe this botak hamid is the Menteri Pelancungan huh?
Saifool’s hobby fast catching on among the rank and file of ummno
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2775432866_3c82ab602b.jpg
An excellent piece from Martin, and one that comes from the awakening to such hurdles as presented by Albar. This takes me back to that pupae breaking thru the cocoon only to become a strong Rajah Brooke.
And so, why should not Albar go ahead and give and edge to his religion? After all, its more than likely that his religion also calls for the dissemination of divine teachings, I mean all religions profess to have its intrinsic divines.
To Alber and Martin, one of th left and the other right hand without which we hear not the joys of clapping sounds. To the Albars, go on an be encourage; to the Martins- theres your cocoon.
How I wish the world is free of religion for once!
UiTM demonstrations … truths unfurled …
“Dalam pekeliling tersebut, saya telah diarah untuk melakukan demonstrasi membantu Menteri Besar. Saya juga dimaklumkan jika mana-mana pelajar yang ingkar, semua kemudahan yang diberikan oleh UiTM akan ditarik balik dan kemungkinan akan diberhentikan dari pengajian,”
http://terangbulannegaraku.blogspot.com/
oops sorry … typo mistake .. should read ..
membantah Menteri Besar ….
soli soli soli
so now membantah Menteri Besar … is
correct correct correct
Don’t meant to be racial or religion bias. But if the smart Home Minister says this “Religion and politics should not mix”, does he mean that Islam is not a religion, since UMNO keep on talking about what is right and wrong in Islam.
Anyway, who gave the license to UMNO and PAS to say what is right and wrong in Islam since the Quran should be final say.
Just side track, if Avril Lavinge is “sexy” please walk around in KL and I think you have to close down the whole KL.
I quote from the article by Martin above where he cites the following remarks by Syed Hamid,
“If you are to write on religion, then you are supposed to touch on matters pertaining to questions on rituals, adherence to God, followers and anything related to your divine mission.”
“If you go beyond that, definitely you have committed some breaches”.
“Some breaches” it seems. “Mr Minister sir, you ought to be more definite and certain” I would tell him. He is better of keeping mum.
I was at first dumb struck by the stupidity of that “have committed some breaches” remark – by the general and all embracing nature of that remark. How sure can he be that there would be some breaches? How does he know?
Upon reflection, I reaslise that he actually makes good sense. We must remember that he is an UMNO man. One who breathes the UMNO culture and one who is fully armed with the UMNO mentality and ways. Once this crucial fact is pinned down, the remark immediately bore its true meaning.
UMNO is an expert in creating wrongs where none had been committed. Here lies the foundation of his confidence in making the general remark that some wrong must have been committed. For he is well positioned and well equipped to ensure that that remark is and will remain true and correct.
There is another thing about the remark. For matters concerning constitutional rights (right to practice a religion is one such right) the law would be applied generously and widely. So unless a certain act is expressly prohibited by law, it must be permitted and it must be lawful for one to do that act.
Syed Hamid has decided to apply a restrictive interpretation to the constitution. He appears to have said that an act which is not expressly permitted by law, is prohibited and therefore would consititute an unlawful act if it was performed.
Wrong. He cant be wronger. And worse, he is legally qualified and was a practising lawyer before.
“Religion and politics should not mix” – Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar. “If you are to write on religion, then you are supposed to touch on matters pertaining to questions on rituals, adherence to God, followers and anything related to your divine mission”, he added.
However Mohandas Gandhi said “Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is” !
Of course Hamid would know but he is just saying things selectively to suit his agenda. How could UMNO take position that Malaysia is an Islamic state and yet say politics has nothing to do with religion or vice versa? I am sure he has heard of the expression “Political Islam”.
It is regretable that The Herald has been targetted at this moment by “little mullah napoleons” (with which Hamid aligns) to show cause all over the place to bolster the Ruling party’s broad agenda of canvassing Muslims’ votes in Permatang Pauh.
The dungu don’t even know his own religion, let alone comment on others. Let us ignore this irrelevant person.
if this sha bigot is a practising lawyer, mana boleh cari makan. with his stupidity, siapa mau hire him.
“IPOH: Two Perak state executive councillors are among six people arrested by the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) for alleged graft involving a proposed housing project in Seri Iskandar worth RM180mil.
The two exco members are Changkat Jering assemblyman Kapt (Rtd) Mohd Osman Mohd Jailu, 57, and Behrang assemblyman Jamaluddin Mohd Radzi, 52.
State Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) director Samsiah Abu Bakar confirmed the arrests.”
PKR is full of cowboys.
There will be by-election at Changkat jering and Behrang very soon.
BN going to win the two seats and take over the Perak State again.
a bait or sting job by umno on the unsuspecting but corrupted councillors to tip over the state govt?
Syed Hamid and Home Ministers being like LMNs? What is so surprising? The issue really is Syed Hamid is taking this to a new level of hypocrisy and risk.
The fact of the matter is that the Herald have always made comments like these on political situation in the country. In the past only minor comments have resulted. Why now and the fervour?
Because its Anwar and non-Muslim are important voters in Pematang Pauh which has turned into something symbolic. They are pulling out all the stops to attack Anwar and put a stop to what started in 308. They are reaching and reaching hard to do this…
umno/bn have used all the machinery/media including saifool, sodomee, nst, star,utusan etc and bribery money from hong kong for this PP by-election, what is wrong with the Herald asking its readers to pray for a fair and just election or even asking its readers to support PR/PKR.
YB LKS;
Ignorance is too kind a word for him….Incompetent brainless cow fits him perfectly.
Not surprising. Umno and BN have been practising the rules of the Animal Farm. Double standard and no principle! This is Y Malaysia, after 45 years of existence, is in a mess!
In Malaysia, people very soon realised that there are hardly any principles in place.
Even a simple act of swearing on the Quran has no rigid principle of right or wrong – some learned Muslims said it is a proper Islamic practice, while other learned Muslims said it is not a proper Islamic practice. Really funny and confusing. Looks like apa-apa pun boleh!
UMNO is using Islam, Religion and Malay special rights to win support, today, people has awoken, people believe in the country to progress as a Nation and not just one race or religion.
It is time for a change so that our country will not fall behind others.
The system is quite stiflying when the rights of others are concerned.
Look at the way the police allowed protesters to disrupt the Bar forum and now Avril’s concert is being disrupted on such a flimsy ground. Guess the Culture Minister is learning fast from his most senior colleagues.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/08/aftermath-of-bar-forum-chaos-now-avrils.html
The little mullahs are actually getting bigger and uglier. They seem to hold the monopoly to Truth.
In no time they will call themselves prophets.
I think it is just one little mullah who is making decision in the ministry. He must be replaced with a level minded civil servant, not a mullah.
There is a religion called ‘Hypocrisy’.The ‘followers’ of this religion confess that they can do any evil on earth and yet God won’t mind.
Their ‘text’ for their beliefs varies from time to time,occassion to occassion,situation to situation. They even change their ‘text’ as when they like because even God has to beg under them for mercy.
These beleivers are so powerful that each one’s death date is in their hands.They believe even God cannot shake them.God has to ask them first for approval before He does anything.Hypocrites!!!!
Syed Hamid is not law, or is he? Do what we need to do and be damned. Look, the tribal mentality people will lose. We shall prevail.
Tribal people are not our teachers. Because they gave Datoship to Malaysia’s spaceman@”can-or-not”, we must also give datoship to Nicole and LCW. I think this is stupid. It all boils down to desperate politicians desperately wanting to share some limelight no matter how ridiculous the acts may be.
Sport is now a vocation. If sportmen and women achieve greatness, it is well and good. I don’t not see the need for special award or consideration each time they achieve something. That is what million of people in other professions accomplish everyday. If a sport man spends his lifetime trying to put a ball into a hole, how is he different from a carpenter doing his job in terms of accomplishment? We have too many stupid people around paying too much to this group of fellows whose contribution to the world is at most “entertaining”.
Day after day, you see so clearer many actions by the BN government. Actions that are wasteful of tax monies, and are merely just politicking. Where is the real work? See KLSE. Only taichi works which are getting into a bigger mess, which is like ‘rojak’ now. Rakyat work hard for money, suffer higher costs of living, and have been struggling to make ends meet. Some commit suicide, some have gone missing, some commit crimes to survive. And BN government just take the easy way out. Other members of BN remain so silent. Respect is only for great fighters. As a Malaysian, it’s very sad to see our nation going backward. Really sad and sick. Now, you see this PM shoe polisher talking rots.
The future of Japan is in its economy.
The future of China is in its people.
Tell Syed Hamid that the future of Bolehland is in Saifool’s ass. That’s all we have.
Dear All
Here’s my suggestion for a research project:
“A Comparative Analysis of the Educational & Professional Credentials of Malaysian and Singaporean Cabinet Ministers and Their Relationship to the Quality of Policy Pronouncements”.
P.S. By the way, I am no fan of the arrogant and authoritarian PAP leaders! May they lose their 2/3 majority in the next Singapore General Election. See the “Singapore Democrats” website.
Phua Kai Lit
Ask Syed Hamid what he intends to do with this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=akRCLUMdvsNM&refer=home
Hamid made such comments merely to please Abdullah that he (Hamid) is doing a grand job as Home Minister. With a little analysis, it is not difficult to see that Hamid’s comments threaten BN survival. Religiously speaking 60% of Malaysia’s population are Muslims, the rest are mainly believers of other faiths. If Hamid continues to criticize and exert pressure on believers of other faiths, eventually the latter will be antagonized. Come the 13th GE these believers of other faiths will vote for the Opposition. At the same time, if only 11% of Muslims turn to PKR then BN can only get (60% – 11%) or 49% support from the rakyat. This level of support will prevent BN from forming the federal government.
Hamid must think thrice before he criticizes or takes drastic actions against believers of other faiths.
*******************************************
Dear YB And ALL
*******************************************
If religion and politics should not mix, then all MALAYSIAN
irrespective of Malay, Chinese and Indian should have freedom
of Religion !!!
This is the ONLY way left to UNITE MALAYSIA. Then only we
have a true Malaysian Breed !!!
********************************************
k1980,
That photograph of BN supporters speaks a thousand words or is a zillion words! What are the BN goons trying to teach? Looks like they are promoting sodomee. Pathetic is the way they go about showing their mentality and passion for the back door.
DISGUSTING!
He is one of those UMNOputras.
He is also part of the problem.
So for him ignorance is bliss and he’ll want everyone to follow him.
Nor Mohamed Yakcob, The Second Finance Minister and Member of Parliament of Tasek Gelugor has openly said that “Arif Shah is a gone case” during the Nomination Day in Institut Perguruan Tuanku Bainun in Bukit Mertajam….
http://kickdefella.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/umno-permatang-pauh-facing-extinction/
Religion and politics should not mix! says the Minister. It always amazes me, as to how, UMNOPutras can say one thing and do another with a straight face. Are they not afraid of God? even if they are not afraid of men? They have no shame, no sense of right or wrong. God help them, at the here after.
Part of the clause allowing the publication of the Catholic paper is that it will not involve in politics; Clearly if the authorities feel that they have contravened this policy, then the publication can be reviewed to have it’s permit revoked. There is nothing sinister about this motive against. As for the “politicisation” of Islam, then you must understand that politics is an inherent part of Islam (and not vice versa). In Christendom, I understand the Church and state are 2 distinct entities; this is NOT the case with Islam.
Zak hammaad ,Have you read the Herald which is the Catholic,s paper ,I don,t think so if you did, then good for you.
The Herald did not touch on politics at all.All it did was to ask the Catholics to pray for a fair and clean election without any trouble.Is it wrong …
What i see happening is that the UMNO led BN Government want to cancel the permit .Because of the pending court case.No Herald no case.The whole world is laughing at us…
“Religion and politics should not mix” Syed Hamid
Coming from someone who believes in Islam, this cannot be right!
Islam is more than just a religion. It is a way of life and as a way of life you cannot separate Islam from politics. Any boundaries could only be artificial and attempts to keep them apart would not succeed.
Hence the western model of democracy is at odds with Islam. Muslim societies are more amenable to an autocratic or authoritarian forms of government much like Confucianism with its emphasis of filial piety is.
ooops on filial piety
Only during ELECTION you will see UMNO TALKING about being fair to the INDIANS and CHINESS.When not in election mode they draw the kriss and warn the CHINESS and INDIANS.
Saw ariff on TV giving a ceramah in MANDERIN.Sunddenly the other races are important.
undergrad2, i think you are getting slow. When Syed Hamid said that, he is not referring to Islam.
The abuse of one’s position of authority is one of the worst kind of corruption that can happen in the world of politics and administration.
A position in government is one which is tied to the votes he/she received in an election, and thus that person is directly responsible to the electorate and should endeavour to protect and advance their interests and concerns.
Now, when you have an elected representative going against the wishes of the electorate what should the latter do? Surely, the electorate have their rights. They could elect to exercise that right to admonish the representative for not doing the necessary.
What more when the representative went to the extent of threatening the electorate with this and that action?
The state of administration in Malaysia has fallen to such abysmal level that it smacks of “jungle rule”. There seems to be a total lack of common-sense in dealing with day to day affairs. Issues are blown out of proportion. When just a sensible reply is the required response to placate a situation, an orchestrated oversized reply is given instead to complicate matters – creating unnecessary fuss and misunderstanding. Goodwill seems to be lost. No more mutual respect and tolerance are exercised. What a sad state of affairs.
With this kind of seemingly high-handedness and wanton attitude what can we expect of the administration? The rakyat are indeed restless and agitated and driven to their wits end.
Hope good and common sense will prevail.
the chinese will vote for him because he speaks mandarin?
people will vote for him just because he looks lembek and amiable?
what a gimmick!
we prefer substance over such superficiality.
PP voters, Never vote for bn, whether their candidate speak, Mandarin, Urdu, Telugu?Punjabi, Tamil, Malay, Malayalam, Thai, Teochew, Hokkien or whatever.
to read the full editorial from herald about the permatang pauh by election(mentioned by martin here) including the prayer, hop over to my post.
The government should leave religion alone.The teh tarik sect in Terengganu went far before it was brought down.Syed should concentrate on other work and take in more non malays in his ministry so that he gets good advice.
Badak said:
“Only during ELECTION you will see UMNO TALKING about being fair to the INDIANS and CHINESS.When not in election mode they draw the kriss and warn the CHINESS and INDIANS.
Saw ariff on TV giving a ceramah in MANDERIN.Sunddenly the other races are important.”
Yeah. Us chinese and indians are truly staple and standard election fodder.
I kinda like this word “fodder”.
You tell me,zak-hamaad,how can praying for a free and clean election be interpreted as contravening the policy of not involving in politics.If at all this is to be construed as playing with politics then it should be seen as playing good politics for the prayer comes from a wish of trouble free election!
The trouble with Islam in Malaysia is that it wishes to intervene into the lives of non Muslims who have their own religion or no religion.It would be perfectly all right for anybody if Muslims stick to their way of Islamic life for themselves without trying to impose it on to others.There are around 45% non Muslims in this country and you want to have an Islamic state to impose your values on them.Christianity was once like that,not being able to separate religion from state matters.Over time it has come to accept that the church has no business in
matters of state only in matters of religion.
Secularism ought to be the best solution since it is neutral in its treatment on all religion preferring neither this religion nor that religion.I am an agnostic and it simply beats me why secularism is not acceptable??
And cannot be accetable!
If DPM (read : the government and their agents and followers) is sincere in the the importance of the Chinese language ( Mandarin ) and dialects ( eg. hokkien, cantonese, etc. ) as he has emphasised again and again in the run up to the PP by-election ( as displayed by the BN candidate’s ability to speak fluently in Mandarin & Hokkien ) then there is some hope yet for the development of Chinese schools and Chinese language in main stream schools.
If the government sees the importance in knowing, thus learning of, the Chinese language, then we should see more activities in the training and recruiting of teachers for that purpose. Our education ministers and higher education ministers should begin to take urgent and serious measures to address the matter. They should take the cue from the DPM.
Else, it only boils down to mere rhetoric and cheap publicity and deceiving the community that it is important to learn the Chinese language.
What about the Tamil language? How come no emphasis given? It would be prejudicial to give attention to one and not to the other. As if Tamil is not important or has no place?
We need answers. Thank you.
badak, I do not disagree with what you’ve wrote and I was simply pointing out that if the Herald did contravene it’s terms and conditions (re: politics) then it is for both parties to sit down and sort it out. My personal opinion like yours is that praying for a free and fair election is not political but a moral statement.
undergrad2, yes you are very much on the ball; western model of democracy is not only unsuitable to Muslim countries, it is also unsuitable for many Asian and African countries as you can see. What some have done is taken the most suitable of elements (and what overlaps) from the Western systems of capitalist democracy and atuned it to local geo-social-demographics. I also agree that Muslim societies are more amenable to an autocratic or authoritarian forms of government because Islamic governance does not accept a 2-party system as it’s history has shown.
AhPek, the “trouble with Islam in Malaysia” is that the authorities who are seen to be championing Islam are actually contradicting it in many facets of public life. Until they either fully accept and explain (or do away with) Islamic governance, the confusion that you clearly portray will remain. Islamic governance has never been about intervening into the lives of non Muslim citizens; and again history has shown quite the opposite. How Muslims can restore what they have lost in terms of transparent and clean governance is the question.
I would also argue in the same breath that it’s the Christian missionaries are also contributing in creating a climate of conflict in this region by their brand of covert prostelizing. Please refrain from making statistical errors as this will not help your cause; There are approx 62% Muslims in Malaysia (which would make the remaining 38% non-Muslims). I know that people have a fear of stats and I know that by manipulating these figures, you think you can stake a bigger claim in terms of ratio; you can’t change the demographic reality in Malaysia, which I believe favours the Muslims. Applying limited Islamic laws for the Muslims should neither be seen with distrust nor apprehension. This in no way contravenes non-Muslim rights in Malaysia.
Speaking of an Islamic state is nonesensical at this moment in time. If the demographics change to reflect 90%+ Muslims, perhaps then, this question of creating an Islamic state with all it’s rules and regulations can be addressed.
Over time, Christianity may have accepted secularism (perhaps this is also the reason why it has lost most of it’s original teachings) and may be accustomed to making it’s religion as it goes along, but Islamic fundamentals do not change with time, space or location.
Secularism by default contradicts Islam at it’s very foundation and hence will never be accepted as an alternative mode of governance in any Muslim society. Turkey as an example still reels from an identity crisis since it abolished the caliphate. It continues to “sell it’s soul” in order to be recognised as “Europeans” and to be accepted into the EU. This of course, will never happen.
Our country has roughly 62% “bumiputras”. That works out to a figure of 15.8 million people (thereabout). The 62% or 15.8 million bumiputras are actually made up of malays and non malays. The latter group has 2.8million in total numbers and by a simple deduction, the former has 13 million in numbers.
Assuming that all malays are muslims then we have 51% muslims in the country.
Assuming further that half of the 2.8 million non malay “bumiputras” are also muslims then the percentage of muslims in the country would increase to 56%.
So it would be quite accurate for me to say that muslims in the country ranges from 51% – 56% of the whole population.
Some of the muslims are actually recent imports from indonesia and the philippines. They should not have been present here as citizens of this country. Realistically, their numbers should not be included in the calculation above. Which is to say, the real percentage range would really be lower than the 51-56% as calculated above. The actual reduction is an unknown to all of us unless the relevant authority tell us the numbers involved.
Even as things now stand, it is clear that muslims in this country do not enjoy a clear majority in terms of absolute numbers. It is only a slight majority we are looking at.
Racial composition of a country is a strange animal. It is nothing like say a slab of meat with 51% meat and 49% fat – i.e. what-is-not-meat-is-definately-fat sort of situation. This is because part of the 51% (or 56% if you like) may, for reasons of their own, chose to to go along with the other 49%. You cant stop them.
In other words, racial majority does not permit a neat translation into better rights. Things are not so straightforward and simple. This is where UMNO failed – for giving racial composition too simplistic a treatment.
taiking, it is funny that you did not include any of the 2.8 non Malay bumiputera into your Muslim equation of 51%. As I figure it, out of the 11% non Malay bumiputera, 3% are Muslim. Out of the approx 8% Indians, 3% are Muslim, Chinese Muslims now make up approx 1% of total population and there are small pockets of Arab and other ethnically diverse Muslims (totalling another 1%). Therefore, figures cited here would put the Muslim population in Malaysia at 59% – It is true that a credible census is not available; but logical deductions will suit me fine for now.
Realisitically, we should include every Malaysian citizen who is a Muslim. The “imports” you speak of is wholly inaccurate and not backed by any solid facts; could this be your envy and emotions doing the speaking for you. Taking the classic example of Singapore of today, you would understand that each state implements some mechanisms to make sure that those who rule are not made a minority in their own country. FYI – Migration and trans-migration is as old as man himself and no one person or race or religion can claim exclusivety to any place.
zak-hamaad,
Whether I twisted the figure or you twisted the figure or taiking twisted the figure is of little concern, the fact that the census from the Statistic Department has not been credible suggests that the Department being an appendage of UMNO like every civil service department has dutifully done the job of cooking up a more than actual percentage of Muslims in order to emphasize the dominant position of the Muslims while down sizing the very large significant non Muslim population and even larger non Malay population(49%) in this country.After all Mamak is the master mind behind all this by taking in large number of Indonesians first into Peninsula and second bringing in both Indonesians and Muslims Filipinos by design.This is an insidious and systematic method to suppress the percentage both non Muslim and non Malay
population in the country altering dramatically the demographic landscape of the country.
The population statistics of Malays in 1938 found in the”Malayan Postscript” by Australian war correspondent Ian Morrison states:
(a) Chinese 2.22 million
(b) Malays 2.21 million
(c) Indians 0.74 million
(d) others 0.95 million
TOTAL 6.12 million
Most of Indians (mostly indentured Tamil labour employed in plantation and road building) and others (mostly Orang Asli,Europeans and Eurasians) are almost 100% non Muslims.AT most I give it 2%.The Malay population is 36.1% and Muslim population is 38.1%.Look at the present figure and see the steep climb of Malay population 51% and Muslim population(45%-60%). Isn’t that shocking?
Should be the population statistics of Malaya.
this man is sick and very sick, there is no medicine to cure him.
you cannot be more motivated than him because he has to prove he is more malay than those in Hum no.
Every one knows he is a rojak, having roots in some minority group in mid east desertlands.
He cant go back , there is no future there and standards of living is relatively lower and tougher and no good hospital and doctors.
He cant join MIC , he is not wlecome, he certainly wont join msee air.
he cant form a club of his kind , there is not enougn of his kind.
so it is by convenience you scratch my back i scratch your , what more better i called my self maly.
Errrrr…what you want me to do, round up the the….the …okay considered done…right away sir.