Who would have thought that the RM100 million spent last year to celebrate the 50th Merdeka anniversary celebrations proved to be so short-lived and ephemeral, making so little impact on the Malaysian psyche and nation-building process to unite all citizens with the common sentiment and vision that they are Malaysians first and Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadazans, Ibans and Orang Asli second!
This is why one of the fundamental questions confronting Malaysians today is: –
Why not Barisan Nasional-Pakatan Rakyat talks instead of Umno-Pas talks if the top national priority is to save Malaysia from being a “failed state” and establish that on the eve of the 51st Merdeka anniversary, we are Malaysians first and Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadazans, Ibans, Orang Asli second and not vice versa?
This is particularly pertinent as the great challenges of Malaysian nation-building today concerning justice, freedom, solidarity, integrity and progress can only be addressed in an effective and meaningful manner through BN-PR talks and not through Umno-Pas talks.
The proposal by the PAS spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat that the implementation of Islamic hudud and qisas laws, among other things, be the basis of Umno-PAS co-operation and even merger, has raised serious concerns.
It is not only against the well-known position of the DAP, running counter to the secular character of the founding national “social contract” and Merdeka Constitution publicly upheld by the first three Prime Ministers, but also contrary to the fundamental commitment of Pakatan Rakyat to uphold the rights and interests of all Malaysians, regardless of race and religion, as enshrined in the Constitution.
The foremost challenges facing Malaysia today is not one of race or religion but whether we can harness and mobilize the talents, resources and energies of all Malaysians as one dynamic, vigorous and progressive entity to stop the nation from becoming a failed state like Zimbabwe and Myanmar when half a century ago, we were the second most developed nation in Asia after Japan.
[ML has just emailed an article by former Bernama general manager, Ahmad Mustapha written last year on Lee Kuan Yew’s 84th birthday on September 16, 2007 and why Malaysia has been left behind by Singapore in the past four decades. If Mustapha’s warnings are not heeded, then there will be no way to check Malaysia’s continued decline down the league of nations. Mustapha’s article should be serious food for thought by all Malaysians.]
“The proposal by the PAS spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat that the implementation of Islamic hudud and qisas laws, among other things, be the basis of Umno-PAS co-operation and even merger, has raised serious concerns.” – Uncle Lim
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PAS couldn’t be trusted, can you? Forming an alliance in Pakatan with PAS is a mistake in the first place. PAS has been consistently expressed its intention to form an Islamic State with hudud and syariah as the basis of the Malaysian Constitution. Do they care about the plight of other non-Muslims? The answer is NO!
What’s the different between Pakatan Rakyat and the disband Barisan Alternative?
Nothing…….Just the name’s sake……
We want PAS out of Pakatan.
I think we r moving backwards. No eye to see.
PAS & UMNO do not share the same dreams.
How can they share the same bed?
Dear YB,
PAS and UMNO has the same genetic code, so they will always tango together and usually PAS will be the loser at the end.
If PAS never learn from the past screwed up by UMNO, they are most welcome to be screwed again and again!
To me I am sick of PAS, Unfaithful and Ungrateful
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/07/unfaithful-partner-pas.html
Forget about them,, PR move on and charge forward..
Shiok Guy
I believe that the PAS-UMNO talks is a grand strategic design by UMNO firstly and primarily to divide the Pakatan Rakyat’s solidarity and create mistrust , infighting and disunity among component party members. Divide and rule is their game. They are not interested in working with PAS at all. Just grab back power and then use their “keris” to stab PAS again in the back as in the past. Maybe Tok guru knows better.
This is a cheaper option to grab power without spending hundreds of millions to sway PAS. Just stroll into the corridors of power through this option.
Doesn’t PAS ever learn their lesson ? Never allow UMNO ever back at the pilot’s seat again in PR ruled states through this dubious means. Do not play into their hands. They want Karpal Singh to say something divisive so as to get the ball started for the initial crack to open.
Once you let them back to power it will be difficult to get it back . Remember the rakyat needs 50 long years to dig out all the scum and dirt and left the country rotten to the core ! It is now like a rotten tree trunk : only nice to look at the bark ( cosmetics ) but as you scrape a little bit deeper , the whole core is rotten.
Secondly, UMNO is now faced with an internal tussle and the fear of losing power at the Federal level. This is a diversionary tactic to focus UMNO’s energy using the talks rather than directing their attacks at the leaders.
The only comment here is your are wise. possible to step one more step ahead to lead the team will be better…
My writing on this issue:
Will PAS Embrace Islam Hadhari or Join BN?
Link:
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com/2008/07/will-pas-embrace-islam-hadhari-or-join.html
Hudud Law? How many times PAS have told us their true motives in implementing Hudud Law – Its perfectly ok provided it applies only to Muslims. Go ahead, implement whatever Law you want but do not force it on Non-muslim to comply. Do not blame other races or religions for the difference in mentality or humanity or quality of life. Statement like “Pls respect PAS decision” “Nobody can question PAS” is outright Mafia style. We want to respect PAS – Just showed it to us- HOW? with what? Dictatorial style of management, no difference from Taliban lah.
Its sodomy played out against our Principle as Pakatan Rakyat. PAS jumps at any opportunity that suits their “homogenous, one religion, one race plan and have absolute lost all respect from us.
PAS are given a great opportunity to improved and progress but choose to pursue its idealogical fancy dreams by building castles in the air and expect everyone to move in and later collect rental also.
FOr every ‘one’ step PAS walk forward, it hops 3 steps back. Soon PAS will discover, its back to Jurassic Park where, canabilisation will be its hallmarks. People walk around without limbs and the rest, spending time about SURVIVING life forgetting about LIVING LIFE!.
We just need to pray hard that God will have mercy and let not be distracted by evil doers into forming a better country like Malaysia.
Malaysia Boleh also.
It is better for PAS to leave PR and join BN, here’s the reason
After PAS join BN, PAS will become as tiny as other BN coalitions such as MCA, MIC, SUPP, they can’t fight UMNO, UMNO will not form an Islamic State with hudud and syariah, so PAS in BN is nothing. So BN will not get stronger with the join of PAS. We all still remember how UMNO treat PAS 30 years ago.
The next GE the PR will be consist of PKR and DAP, so no more conflict especially among DAP and PAS. Without PAS, I believe PR can perform better. Please faster kick PAS out of PR, I too really sick of them. Let’s new PR (DAP and PKR) fight for a ‘Malaysia for Malaysian”, and rule the federal government by then.
Ha, ha – LKS baru tahu what kind of bed fellow he has been sleeping with in the last few months!! Be careful, very careful indeed, not to be sodomised by the sleeping partner under the same blanket!!
There is no way Malaysia is moving ahead on a racial-blind path. It has been, is, and will be always Malays and hence Muslims first. BN is under the control of the racist party, Umno. The true natives of Sabah and Sarawak have been tricked to join Malaysia and now their treasures, wealth, and political power have been siphoned off into the hands of Umnoputras.
Singapore certainly has no regrets leaving Malaysia!
1965, S$1 = RM1; 2008, S$1 = almost RM2.40!
And the funny thing is Malaysia has oil, palm oil, tin, rubber, etc.
PAS and UMNO talks about Islamic laws and Malay rights is clearly a sign that they forgot that these country is made up of multicultural and multi-religious citizens. What they are doing is against the basic constitution rights of any citizen of Malaysia.
Yes, I would agree to a BN and PR discussion to benefit the nation but racial talks such as UMNO and PAS’ are making the whole nation uncomfortable.
Thanks yskong, you said it all. Agreed!!
Welcome, just a moment…
anyone, why is it my comments are still stuck in awaiting moderation? How long wld it take to released?
Some of our politicians are so confused. If Umno wants to discuss with PAS on Malay-unity, then by all means discuss it. But why bring religion into it? Granted that all Malays are Muslims, but not all Muslims are Malays. So if you want to discuss Malay-unity, why not approach the Malays, say, in PKR too. On the other hand, if you want to discuss Muslim-unity, you may want to talk to all parties because there are Muslims in each one of them. I am very disappointed in PAS for falling into an Umno’s trap whose objectives are as clear as daylight. Meantime, while you guys are sorting out the whole equation using your blinkered racial lens, suggest that you empower the non-Malays (Muslims, Christians, Hindus and Taoist etc) so that we can revive the sagging economy.
Even if a one-party-system government does evolve after the BN-PR talks, there must be an authoritative and effective mechanism to check corruption, graft and power abuses and those who take part in such misdeeds are seriously dealt with. The current mechanism adopted by BN could hardly work!
BN + PR instead of BN vs PR.
Not a bad (but clearly unworkable) idea.
BN wants corruption
PR hates corruption.
BN cannot do without corruption.
PR cannot do with corruption.
Impasse = End of discussion.
Close file.
Go home.
Why not BN-PR talks rather than Umno-PAS talks? – YB
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The answer to this is very simple, BN is UMNO and UMNO is BN, UMNO can leave all other component parties and form the govt by itself which it had claimed so whenever any component party is trying to talk to UMNO as equal partner in BN. But the situation had changed after the March 8 political tsunami. UMNO can no longer making such a claim and it knows that it needs to be strengthen so that it will not be blackmailed by other component party e.g. SPP or Sarawak CM. As UMNO knows very well that all other BN component parties are begger parties and now UMNO has to kowtow to this kuching kurup instead. How humiliating!!!
UMNO has considered the worst scenario where it will no longer relevant in Malaysian political scene and thus it has to find someone to be its partner in order to stay in power and PAS has the best criterias for UMNO to work with as PAS has more common grounds than with any other entities e.g. They are muslims, Malays, Supreme race mentality, they marginalise non muslims, they eat the same and talk the same, they lie without blinking their eyes, they cheated on their partners, they say one thing and do the others etc etc. , all these make them the best brothers in town.
UMNO will agree to every thing PAS asked for as long as they stay in power and continue to enrich themselves, but this will happen only if the worst scenario happens in the near future, else UMNO will still prefer to let the Casino, TOTO shops and Nightclubs open to feed themselves!!!
I share the view of Kit that why not BN and Pakatan Rakyat start talking on political reconciliation for the good of the country.
I cannot avoid but feel envious with the development taking place in Singapore, a country of no resources and yet is very far ahead in all spheres of development.
We should seriously start nation building based on meritocracy and inculcate national spirit to be Malaysian first and Malay, chinese, Indians, Kadazan and Iban second.
This is imperative if we want to progress ahead.The present policies of BN government is so retrogressive to Nation building.
There is one common trait shared between PAS and UMNO and that is this feeling of inferiority complex, which, sad to say, is no longer a feeling. It is becoming a trait.
In PAS the need to enforce Islamic principles on others is evidence of this. To me, if one truly believes that if one practises true Islam, then the good actions will be followed by others without enforcement. In this respect, I think some of the PAS followers may not have a good understanding of their own religion. Frankly, if you wish to spread Islam, what better way than intermarriages. Isn’t that what religious people are supposed to do … spread the teachings of their religion onto others? Tyranny works through ‘force and fear’ because without them, there will be no ‘willing followers’.
In UMNO, the inferior feeling is very much more visible and blatant. Their belief for Malay unity, for Ketuanan Melayu, speaks volumes for their lack of confidence and faith in their own race. They have no faith and confidence in themselves. And I don’t blame them for feeling this way since they have never bettered themselves and their race in knowledge, skill and wisdom, as evidenced through the recent stupid behaviours of our current and incompetent politicians for all the world to see. The only ‘skill’ they (UMNO) have learnt very fast, is the art of corruption and suppression … corrupt the yourself for your own benefit and suppress others for your own benefit. (And the most recent skill … the art of sodomising.)
Hence, it is clear that the level of competence among the Malays (since UMNO is made up of only Malays) has deteriorated so badly, that even in ‘crime’ they lack clear thought.
There is only a handful of Malays who one can say are truly successful (not moneytary-wise), e.g. RPK, Bakri Musa, etc., who have developed true skills, and certainly not by believing in Ketuanan Melayu. These people have learnt to integrate well with all other races, and in doing so have broadened and enriched their way of thinking. I only wish all Malays here can follow suit. Wouldn’t our country then be truly rich.
In all the 50 years of independence, never before has our beloved country ever faced such humiliation & embarassment in the WORLD for all to see as we have today. And if our politicians cannot see this, then they are truly idiots with thick skins.
Hello all, Malaysia is not prepared for globalization, what we see now after the 308 Tsunami, is just the tip of the iceberg. Globalization impact everyone, if there is no one to strong enough to stand up and fight for the people like what Dr M did in the past we will ended up been a jokes.
Unfortunately our Govt. made up by BN clowns are not prepare to face it, they rather prefer to make opportunity from their 2/3 majority priviledge in the past. As a result, mass corruption, and biasness occured. Najis is well aware the root cause of his wrondoing all from a single mistakes, getting the commission from submarine, if he didn’t make that mistakes, he could well be the prime minister don’t have to wait another 2 years.
“Why not Barisan Nasional-Pakatan Rakyat talks instead of Umno-Pas talks” – Because this country belong to ketuanan melayu. We non malay are only pendatang.
“if the top national priority is to save Malaysia from being a “failed state” and establish that on the eve of the 51st Merdeka anniversary, we are Malaysians first and Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadazans, Ibans, Orang Asli second and not vice versa?-
When they said we are pendatang, we always second, and when they said they are ketuanan we are also always second.
So what? If we talk more, pas & umno will group up and will tell us “kalau tak suka boleh keluar” so where are we going? back to china? taiwan? or singapore?
let it be, let it be, just accept it and let it be.
DEAR YB And To All of you here:
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Many times we have known and learned via history, still we are so stubborn and naive
What ever political changes or drives or happenings, the minorities chinese and indians are always being taken for a ride finally.
Ultimately is just about the Malay Supremacy and we minorities are just “transitions”.
I wonder, in time to come in next 50 years where the chinese and indians are about 15% of the population, what special privilege and rights they are talking about? Shouldnt be the special privellege and rights should be on our side i.e. the minorities?
Anyway as our forefathers always said, special rights and privilege only EXIST because of the the existence of chinese and indian. If there is so few chinese and indian, what is the meaning of special rights and privilege all about? Can anyone in the parliament answer this question?
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UMNO is eyeing PAS only in states that are controlled by PR. UMNO has authority, power and control of other states. If UMNO is sincere, it should immediately offer PAS Wakil Rakyat positions as state exco in these states without string attached. By targeting PR states only, it just shows that UMNO ultimate aim is to gain power instead of true unity of Malay or Islam.
PR states has offered jobs to BN members but not the other way round. This goes to reflect that when BN is in power, UMNO is not looking at sharing power as it only offers or rather confers power to those within BN umbrella regardless of ability. When not in position of strength, they are willing to sacrifice anything for the sake of getting a piece of the cake.
PAS ultimately must fight for an Islamic State or country. This is tenet of PAS members belief that who so ever violate this means he/she is against Allah. The only leeway is how PAS will deal with non-muslim, their stance on religous freedom, minority rights etc. to make the state/country still acceptable by “non-believers”. Between PAS and UMNO NEP, PAS ideology looks more palable for I see that PAS can be flexible when it wants to make PR a success. It is impossible to change one’s race but one can change one’s religion albeit a controvesial move.
Dear All,
It is very difficult to be able to please each and every segment of the society in Malaysia. It is a fallacy to believe that the real multi racial society a.k.a. Bangsa Malaysia would thrive in Malaysia. It is because the very moment such notion is being proposed or mooted publicly, you will have groups coming out shouting different slogans complaining that their rights will be compromised if the government administration is to be administered with the Bangsa Malaysia model. It is sad but unfortunately we all must reconcile with the fact that our country is yet ready for such concept.
We can take note from the recently concluded local councillor selections by the Pakatan Rakyat administration, there are obviously disgruntled groups and individuals alleging unfair practice and selections were based on racial basis. For instance, there are groups claiming that Ronnie Liu has been trying very hard to only appoint Chinese councillors in the Shah Alam local council. Another example was shown whereby only 8 Malays out of 24 were chosen in the Majlis Perbandaran Subang Jaya which consists of Puchong, Kelana Jaya and Serdang. The point which am trying to raise is that people are still comparing the number of Malay, Chinese or Indian councillors appointed by Pakatan Rakyat vis-a-vis Barisan Nasional. As it is now certain groups claiming to be representing Hindraf are already voicing discontentment that Pakatan Rakyat has failed in its duties assisting the Indians. The fact is that the racial thinking in us has been deeply rooted and would take a major storm to have them uprooted.
It is also disheartening to read that corruption is widespread and there are very concrete signs showing that the government is rather reluctant to take actions against the individuals involved. How many more years before the entire wealth of this country be plundered? We can write, condemn or even shout in Parliament on these issues but they just remain unresolved. We all know that YB Lim had in the past talk about BMF scandal in 1982 but what happen after 26 years? Such scandal is still happening and the worst thing is that the tune of the amount had been multiplied by more than five times or even more.
Anwar to contest Permatang Pauh, Wan Azizah tenders resignation to Parliament.
Salam and Greetings to All Malaysian,
First of all, we need to reflect on ourselves. An intelligent person would not have jump to conclusion at a slightest news which are made available or purposedly being spoon fed to them.
Secondly, ALL of US need to reflect on ourselves. Why this things happened and how can we overcome the predicament?
Finally, ALL of US need to ask ourselves sincerely on the way to proceed, the path to be taken and how to bridge the racial divide.
We need to ADMIT that MOST of us have been brought up in our own ways. That all of us, either consciously aware or not have a perspective which have been tainted by prejudice as a results of racial politics, conditioning and hate-divide politics for the last 50 years. This is the very effective ways that have been practiced by our formal colonial master’s and have been made into perfection by the UMNO-led government. Btw, dont just blame it on UMNO but blame it also on the willing partners in MCA, MIC, GERAKAN and all parties inside BN. In this sense, we as a “whole” are equally guilty…
Obviously, as the world that we live in cannot be merely seen in either black or white. There are various shades of grey in between. The same can be said about us and in this particularly, about DAP and PAS.
Why DAP? Obviously about it’s paranoia on Islam and on anything Islamic such as it’s Islamic Laws or Hudud. Dont they know that:
(i) Islamic Laws or Hudud is only applicable to muslim only?
(ii) Under Islamic Laws, Non-Muslims are allowed to choose the type of Law which they are comfortable with…
Why PAS? In it’s quest to implement Islam, some of them have become too ambitious, too zealous to actually “see” the actual FEARS in the Non-Muslims on anything Islamic. I’m not blaming the Non-Muslims here. All of those corruptions, kickbacks, injustices, swindlings, power abuses, mismanagement of the countries have been commited by the so called “Muslims” from UMNO. However, the Non-Muslims haven’t got a slightest ideas that in Islam; those who confess to be muslims but their very actions are totally opposit to the teachings of Islams are either called as a Munafiq or a Fasiq. These are what UMNO’s actually are. A bunch of Malay Despots or Bigots who are actually a munafiq or fasiq muslims at best! Called whatever it is but a spade will remains as a spade.
I’m a malay and I’m a muslims who try very hard to practise Islam in the way it should have been practiced. Not only limited to the rituals; i.e. prayers, fastings etc without comprehensively understand on the actual meaning of it. And I do see that we, as Malaysians in general, the “muslim” malays and the “Non-Muslims” in particular are equally guilty as well. For we are the one who have been voting this corrupt government into powers. The “malay” muslims for their very faith in the corrupted UMNO and the “Non-Muslims” for having faith in BN all these while…
Please UNDERSTAND this. The very fundamentals of UMNO led BN (MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, etc..) politics is all about “DIVIDE” and “CONQUER”. The two most mighty; (i) RACIAL and (ii) RELIGIOUS divide have been used effectively before and it’s being played again even now. It’s just like a game of chess. These are merely pawns used in a “mentally retarded” political game with the rakyat. If we, the rakyat, the normal “Ah Chong”, “Muthu”, “Abu” failed to see the game, and keep playing it to the tunes that have been played, then may GOD help us all! We, as the “rakyat” are the biggest losers…
UMNO is not about malays; as in MCA is not all about chinese; as is MIC is not all about indians. They represent NOTHING of except THEMSELVES! A bunch of UMNO-PUTRA, MCA-PUTRA and MIC-PUTRA. It’s about time we see the various shades of grey.
To PR (both DAP, PAS, PKR), please WISE up. DO NOT DANCE to the tune of UMNO again. Please resolves all of your differences internally and please dont be afraid of your own shadows. Obviously, we’ve got our own differences. Every single one of us has. Infact, the whole world is about differences. Embrace it with an open heart. Malaysia is a blesssed country. If managed prudently, the wealth it has is enough to be used for the benefits of all of it’s citizens. The country urgently need a good leadership in terms of a honest, trust-worthy, intelligent and wise coalition fronts that resembles a truly united Malaysians.
In conclusion, I wish to make a mental note on the following verses:
Al-Hujarat (049.013)
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
May all of us be righteous in our deeds….
Lakilompat,
Please dont praise TDM for “defending” Malaysia in globalisation, he didnt help Malaysian at all by doing so, he is only prolonging all the illnesses of our beloved country and he is not treating them which he should have done in the first place, at the end of the day, when we no longer able to protect ourselves from globalisation by learning new skills and acquire the required knowledge to be competitive, we will be taking over by others or overcome by natural disasters whether we want it or not. Just look to North Korea, Myanmar and other countries which stay stagnant for the past 40 to 50 years without progress!!!
With PAS and UMNO merging and introducing Islamic hudud and qisas laws, I don’t think the other partners, like MCA, MIC, Gerakan including of some major players in Sabah and Sawarak will have any credibility left… should they remain in BN. The future of these parties are bleak and soon will be history.
How many times PAS have told us their true motives in implementing Hudud Law or we ‘PR’ are adamant for not listening- Its perfectly ok provided it applies only to Muslims. Go ahead, implement whatever Law you want but do not force it on Non-muslim to comply. Do not blame other races or religions for the difference in mentality or humanity or quality of life. Statement like “Pls respect PAS decision” “Nobody can question PAS” is the same statement the current Gov’t is using – Dictator style. We want to respect PAS – Just showed it to us- HOW? with what? with this kind of statement, you expect respect? It can only work within your own family maybe: Father and child: I say, you listen.
Its sodomy played out against our Principle as Pakatan Rakyat. PAS jumps at any opportunity that suits their “homogenous, one religion, one race plan and have absolute lost all respect from us.
PAS are given a great opportunity to improved and progress but choose to pursue its idealogical fancy dreams by building castles in the air and expect everyone to move in and later collect rental also.
FOr every ‘one’ step PAS walk forward, it hops 3 steps back. Soon PAS will discover, its back to Jurassic Park where, canabilisation will be its hallmarks. People walk around without limbs and the rest, spending time about SURVIVING life forgetting about LIVING LIFE!.
We just need to pray hard that God will have mercy and let not be distracted by evil doers into forming a better country like Malaysia.
Malaysia Boleh also.
UMNO meeting up with PAS to talk on Malay unity, sounds so much like wanting to cause racial havoc. A dirty Umno trick & pity PAS fell for it. Imagine if DAP holds Chinese unity talk with MCA & Gerakan, all hell will break loose. Time for PAS to wake up and champion a strong Malaysia of all races & religions, in the course, they may make Islam a more attractive religion.
UMNO PUTRAs are the most racist people in the world. U can make your own judgement by reading KHIR TOYOH’s blog and try BIRO TATA NEGARA yourself.
KUDOS to Pas’ recent decision after majlis Syura that reject any cooperation and merger with UMNO.
PADAN MUKA KAU UMNO! Even your own race reject you outright and you are still dreaming of forming state government in Perak?
HIDUP DAP, PKR and Pas, HIDUP PAKATAN RAKYAT.
Adolf_Napoleon Says:
Today at 15: 19.41 (50 minutes ago)
DEAR YB And To All of you here:
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Many times we have known and learned via history, still we are so stubborn and naive
What ever political changes or drives or happenings, the minorities chinese and indians are always being taken for a ride finally.
Ultimately is just about the Malay Supremacy and we minorities are just “transitions”.
I wonder, in time to come in next 50 years where the chinese and indians are about 15% of the population, what special privilege and rights they are talking about? Shouldnt be the special privellege and rights should be on our side i.e. the minorities?
Anyway as our forefathers always said, special rights and privilege only EXIST because of the the existence of chinese and indian. If there is so few chinese and indian, what is the meaning of special rights and privilege all about? Can anyone in the parliament answer this question?
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We should not be ignorant to think that the Malays majority are very much benefited by the UMNO slogan about Malay Supremacy and rights by continuing to work only in the well protected non productive public service and other loss making GLCs, at the end of the day, it is UMNO elites and their cronies that are stealing much of our country’s wealth hiding behind all these slogans and lies!!! of course, the malay majority are also given peanut if you compare them with other marginalised races who have to toil the lands for food and survive on their own!!! So, only the renaissance of the Malay will be able to overcome all these ills based on democracy of majority votes!!! Without this renaissance, the malay majority will continue to be misled by UMNO and continue to marginalise other races!!!
I believe what Sdr. Lim is alluding to is that supposedly, on paper, the long term goal of BN and PR is closer – multi-racial, non-Hudud law, democratic etc. What Sdr. Lim is trying to allude to is the fact that the truth is BN and PR is further from the each other than BN and PAS but ironically PAS and PR are closer to each other in reality.
Basically BN has no real ideology except to keep itself in power with as much advantage as it can. Its an animal based on short-term practicalities. It is not a system of governance but a system of governability. The only true god of BN is the NEP – a system of subsidies that it has little idea why it has not failed and what real benefit it has brought other than to the party and its members. Think of it, we have a govt whose ideologies is subsidies and distortion as the basis of nation building. How screwed up is that??
The BN has no real intention of making a multi-racial country democratic country. It is NOT completely against it BUT it really don’t care for it either. It does not believe in it. It is ultimately a party of cynics.
We are not a nation by any measure. We are groups of people that has to live with each other. A dysfunctional society is what we are. On the surface, we look OK but deep down the scars are deep and psychotic. Hindraf is only a warning of how the scars will surface in disaster in the future.
They want us to point out a reason that why Islam Country is unacceptable in Malaysia, for me this is an outrage that we are not particulary good at criticising other religions and they wanna create religious tension in Malaysia. If they can’t be tolerant to others religion, then there is no point for them to stay in the pakatan rakyat.
I think the DAP and PR have to seriously sit down with PAS as mature leaders to resolve/reconcile/iron out all your differences on how to govern a multiracial, multi-religious country. As the leaders of PR, I think it would be timely if your goodself, DSAI and Datuk Nik Aziz come out with a joint Merdeka statement/speech affirming your beliefs in this nation’s values as enshrined in the Rukun Negara. Do this on the eve of Merdeka Day so that the Rakyat can appreciate the sincerity of PR versus PM in his Merdeka speech. A joint statement by by both PR/BN would be ideal.
At this juncture of the nation, Msians are truly in need of moral uplifting as they have been badly bruised by the recent politicking and disheartened by the problems facing their elected representatives.
Read my latest post on Ends & Means Out of Msia’s Stalemate at http://www.jeremiah.blogspot.com:
“Never trust politicians/religious leaders who advocate or adopt dubious means to achieve a supposedly great objective. The test of the ethics and honesty of politicians is the effectiveness and soundness of their methods. Everyone can have a great vision like Vision 2020 but look how the politicians have clouded that vision with poor policies. That’s probably why Obama is considered to be a smarter and more adaptive politician in regards to his Middle East policy compared to McCain or Bush.
One of the latest unsavoury methods of political power-grabbing is the agenda of the talks between PAS-UMNO based on the unity of a certain race.”
Sorry, the right website above is:www.jeremiahliang.blogspot.com
UMNO is not bothered about PAS or MALAYS in general or even ISLAM.If they are, there are many other Malays NGO, NON MALAYS ISLAMIC NGOs who they can also have a talk with.
This PAS UMNO talk is just about politics.UMNO is slowly but surely losing its grip on the MALAYS and they know it.
yup. you’re right there mr. badak hehee…
UMNO has nothing to do with Islam. It does not have any interest in Islam. Most of it’s actions can be proved easily to be contrary to Islam! This makes one really wonder why those DIMWITS at PAS trying to broker a talk with UMNO? For what reasons?
Neither do UMNO cares much about malay. It’s all a staged soap opera to conveniently “sodomizing” the DEB to the fullest!
They may be arrogant, they may be bigots, they may be greed, they may be habitual liars but dont count them as stupid! Obviously they knew that they are losing grips on the malays. Who knows to what extent that they will do to make sure that they will forever stay in power for the next milennium? One would make to shudders of all the possibilities….
AS LKY said:
“Please do not assume that you can change governments. Young people don’t understand this” – MM Lee Kuan Yew on the results of the 2006 election
UMNO, like PAP considers its birthright to forever rule the country; they would rather see civil strife than to relinquish power.
Jamesy Says:
>> We want PAS out of Pakatan.
PAS remains the lynchpin in the equation of weaking BN or strengthening PR and vice versa.
Bigjoe Says:
>> Basically BN has no real ideology except to keep itself in power with as much advantage as it can.
This is very true. On the other hand the secular ideology that DAP proposes is impossible for most Malays to stomach because it directly contradicts Islam. I continue to believe that PAS simply wants copy what they have in Kelantan to the rest of Malaysia, they are not stupid enough to ignore the social demography of Malaysia and insist on bringing policies that non-Muslims are uneasy with.
It’s elementary , my dear Watson.
I hope Kit Siang will not take offense , but I know he’s purposely throwing this question at the mosquito parties in BN.
To UMNO. all the other parties in BN are insignificant. They have all along been hanging on to UMNO’s coat-tails.
So, UMNO wants to talk to PAS, UMNO talks.
THe mosquito’s parties opinions or objections are inconsequential.!!
Loyal Malaysian, how do you think PAS’s “opinions or objections” are taken in PR? Portraying PAS as being intolerant of other faiths if the first folly.
The stability of Malaysia is reflected in the way we bahave towards each other. I think it is the inter-generational conflict that is stifling our communities who have already pledged their allegiences to various political parties.
Let’s be optimistic instead of scare-mongering people into the possibility of a civil war.
if umno is really sincere with pas for team up,why choose perak ??why not pas counter propose to umnogoons that pas would be given one of the menteri post either in johore?pahang? or even malacca to replace that rustam, for a good start to profess umno sincerity??why perak n selangor???pas would then be the biggest winner n gainer!!!clear cut,pas is being jus used as a tool for umno’s evil agenda on their desperate move on the preservative of power!!
p/s,is malaysiatoday being hacked again???the website is screwed up again!!umno desperation in full manisfectation…
Between PAS,s ISLAM and UMNO,s ISLAM, I prefer PAS at least PAS is consistent in its policy.From day one they wanted to made MALAYSIA an ISLAMIC STATE.I have yet to hear any PAS leaders who said that MALAYSIA an ISLAMIC STATE.But all UMNO leaders had openly announce that we are an ISLAMIC STATE.When our constitution clearly states that we are a secular state with ISLAM as the official religion.
How to trust UMNO,They are always using different hats when speak…
UMNO, like PAP considers its birthright to forever rule the country; they would rather see civil strife than to relinquish power, zak
you are wrong again, zak. PAP ain’t UMNO. PAP has moral decency to rule and govern. UMNO, is a tribal party that abuses, corrupts, and steals. PAP has no problem reliquishing power if the people really don’t want them, UMNO is like a dictator riding on a tiger. They can’t get down.
I really hope that Nik Aziz’s intention of talking about hudud laws is to:
1) kill off the dialogue between PAS and Umno because he knows that Umno cannot accept hudud laws. If implemented, all Umno politicians will be without limbs, and
2) indirectly telling the young turks in his party (e.g. Nasharudin) to lay off in case they get tempted with sweets from Umno.
However, if the Tok Guru meant what he said, then, boy, we have been lead down a rose garden path in the last election.
“# boh-liao Says:
Today at 13: 55.15 (7 hours ago)
Ha, ha – LKS baru tahu what kind of bed fellow he has been sleeping with in the last few months!! Be careful, very careful indeed, not to be sodomised by the sleeping partner under the same blanket!!
There is no way Malaysia is moving ahead on a racial-blind path. It has been, is, and will be always Malays and hence Muslims first. BN is under the control of the racist party, Umno. The true natives of Sabah and Sarawak have been tricked to join Malaysia and now their treasures, wealth, and political power have been siphoned off into the hands of Umnoputras.
Singapore certainly has no regrets leaving Malaysia!
1965, S$1 = RM1; 2008, S$1 = almost RM2.40!
And the funny thing is Malaysia has oil, palm oil, tin, rubber, etc.”
But Singapore has got lots of Chinese so got otak whereas M’sia has lots of Malays so….
PAS+UMNO= Party Islam Malaysia
DAP+PKR+MCA+MIC+GERAKAN+PPP and non muslim parties= PR
So we’ll have only two parties and everyone knows who’ll be in the power after the next gen.election!
Its high time for the other parties of the BN to sit and decide what to do next.
limkamput Says:
>> PAP has moral decency to rule and govern.
Instead of imposing your views on others, you should speak to Singapore Democrats and other opposition groups who would disagree with you.
UMNO is very much like PAP in that they will do everything in their power to remain in power.
>> PAP has no problem reliquishing power if the people really don’t want them,
If you actually believe this, it shows the level of your prowess and limited reading horizon.
shadow, we don’t usually see things as they are, we see them as we are. Dividing politics between Muslims and non-Muslims in Malaysia is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. Do you want a full scale civil war to destroy society and country?
Singapore democrats? who are they? you mean a few losers here and there? you mean PAP not democrates. They have election there you know.
>> PAP has no problem reliquishing power if the people really don’t want them,
If you actually believe this, it shows the level of your prowess and limited reading horizon, zak
Huh reading horizon, what the heck is that? At least PAP is not a desperate as your tribal party. Totally rejected and still want to cling on to power. You have no shame, the whole of Wilayah Persekutuan KL has rejected UMNO and yet you still want to cling on to major post and run the city. Baloney. HAS IT ever occurred to you that your tribal party is now only supported rural population who are probably shut out of information and news.
Dividing politics between Muslims and non-Muslims in Malaysia is a guaranteed recipe for disaster. Do you want a full scale civil war to destroy society and country? zak
May I know who are doing that other than the race supremacists and religious bigots? Are you one of them, zak? No need to pretend, we know who you are. Who want civil war, you? I have no doubt about that.
zak_hammaad Says:
Nope. You’re wrong there. PAP is very much different than Umno. PAP put Singapore on the world map. Umno also put Bolehland on the world map, but for the wrong reason.
UMNO is very much like PAP in that they will do everything in their power to remain in power. zak
Frankly PAP is not my concern. Is it your concern? Right now, I only know UMNO will do everything in its power to remain in power and this is my concern. What about you, is it your concern, or you actually want to tell us that it is ok for UMNO to cling on to power because PAP will do the same thing as well? Look, my little finger is smarter than you.
sorry repost, due to mistakes
>> PAP has no problem reliquishing power if the people really don’t want them,
If you actually believe this, it shows the level of your prowess and limited reading horizon, zak
Huh reading horizon, what the heck is that? At least PAP is not as desperate as your tribal party. Totally rejected and still want to cling on to power. You have no shame, the whole of Wilayah Persekutuan KL has rejected UMNO and yet you still want to cling on to the mayor post and run the city. Baloney. HAS IT ever occurred to you that your tribal party is now only supported by rural population who are probably shut out of information and news?
devilmaster, that is not the point; the point is about thirst for leadership and doing everything possible to retain that, even if it means playing dirty politics and scare-mongering.
limkamput Says:
Today at 23: 24.20 (28 minutes ago)
sorry repost, due to mistakes
>> PAP has no problem reliquishing power if the people really don’t want them,
If you actually believe this, it shows the level of your prowess and limited reading horizon, zak
>> Huh reading horizon, what the heck is that?
Reading: Do you ever pick up an book a read? Do you ever get out of your house and travel and see the ground realities? Do you have anything tangible to offer apart from we need to do this? What difference have you made in your immediate locality and region? What positive impact have you made on the neighbourhoods that you live in and around?
Be practical for once and get your head out of the theatrics you unassumingly indulge in.
>> At least PAP is not as desperate as your tribal party.
“MY” tribal party, I have yet to vote in any election :^)
You hate and envy assumes to much, perhaps this is why you make laughable mistakes and continue to misunderstand.
limkamput Says:
>> Singapore democrats? who are they? you mean a few losers here and there?
What you count as few, they count as many, what you count as losers, they think they can change the face of S’pore politics (just like PR in M’sia). Like I said before, governments generally have a fear of numbers and manipulate stats to justify their continual policy political repression, very much like BN.
limkamput i don’t think theres any need for you to defend PAP. PAP has successfully led Singapore, regarded as one of the Tiger’s of Asia, to where it is today. That achievement is recognized by everyone in the world except UMNO their many envious supporters. What PAP has achieved cannot be denied.
Contrast this to what Malaysia can show after 50 years. Losing out in almost every way to other countries. Malaysia even have to import in nurses from India today. Thailand gets more FDI then Malaysia consistently. Singapore, Korea is way ahead in every aspect imaginable. All courtesy of 50 years of BN, NEP and Ketuanan Melayu.
Do you ever pick up an book a read? Do you ever get out of your house and travel and see the ground realities? Do you have anything tangible to offer apart from we need to do this? What difference have you made in your immediate locality and region? What positive impact have you made on the neighbourhoods that you live in and around? zak
Who is your favourite authors, name me two and tell me the titles you read. Quick, I am waiting.
Where is the furthest you have travelled? Have you been to all the continents of the world?
I have already told you earlier, you are not my headmaster or scout leader, why should I be accountable to you what I have done or not done. By the way, what about you, what your done, since you like to ask others alot?
boh-liao,
Let’s get REAL. It takes two to tango and no UNILATERAL views are deemed as acceptable to anybody. This is a facts. With the kind of statement that you have made; the racial politics of UMNO will always be valid!
“Ha, ha – LKS baru tahu what kind of bed fellow he has been sleeping with in the last few months!! Be careful, very careful indeed, not to be sodomised by the sleeping partner under the same blanket!!”
>> What kind of statement is this? The actions of a few people inside PAS certainly doesn’t reflect the position taken by the party. Most importantly, the party has make it’s clear stand on this matter! If PAS really want to “screwed” PR, they can do so in both Perak and Selangor with ease…
“There is no way Malaysia is moving ahead on a racial-blind path. It has been, is, and will be always Malays and hence Muslims first.”
>> Wake up! Get real! The issues are always UMNO first! Even then, those who really benefits from it is those UMNOPUTRA. Common UMNO members has nothing to gain. PAS is a majority malay “Muslims” party and they are treated as some kind of “pariah” or “lepers” by UMNO! Open your eyes and please dont ever be ignorance…
“BN is under the control of the racist party, Umno. The true natives of Sabah and Sarawak have been tricked to join Malaysia and now their treasures, wealth, and political power have been siphoned off into the hands of Umnoputras.”
>> Yes! And so do the willing partners in MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, SNAP etc… All are equally guilty! Dont leave them out of the equation.
“Singapore certainly has no regrets leaving Malaysia! 1965, S$1 = RM1; 2008, S$1 = almost RM2.40! And the funny thing is Malaysia has oil, palm oil, tin, rubber, etc.””
>> You are equally right and wrong at the same time. There is no denying that as a government, the PAP led S’pore governments are truly very successfull in managing the economics of their country. However, to say that all Singaporeans have no qualms about their country is also equally wrong. Tell that to the opposition parties in Singapore, and you may got your answer…
“But Singapore has got lots of Chinese so got otak whereas M’sia has lots of Malays so….”
>> Shame on you boh-liao! It seems that you are no difference from those bigots from UMNO! Both of you shares the same distorted views based on racial supremacy.
The only reason why our country is in the despicable state that it is now is is because of people like you, people like us who did nothing except never ending complaints at the comfort of your own home, safely hidden from at the back of your own computer! How many people here who really wants to make a difference? How many people here who really have the guts like Lim Guan Eng, or Tian Chua, or Sivarasa, or Abdul Malik Hussin, or Syed Husin Ali or the various other “nameless” detainees of the notorious ISA? All 25000 of them since 1960? Where are us when these people is captured and detained without trials?
I still remember the common answer of many non-bumis/non-muslims in the many previous elections prior to 2008. What is their common answer? Do I need to elaborate here? Most of us have been a willing partner in this government in one way or another. Our hands are tainted. So do the hands of our forefathers…
Until we stop bulshitting with one another, and started to do our part as a larger community, do not expect anything to change here in Malaysia…
Zak_hammaad:
‘ secular ideology that DAP proposes is impossible for most Malays to stomach because it directly contradicts Islam’.
This is a question best answer by DAP senior members. Sdr Lim care to answer? I will put my two cents worth on it.
I agree that the Malay oppose the idea of secularity but I my view is that its populist not based on facts.
Firstly secularity does not contradict Islam otherwise why would all rich Muslims spend so much time and even migrate in droves to Western secular countries? There is big difference between absolute separation of religion and state as constitutionally pioneered by the United States and secularity. Most countries practise secularity without absolute separation of religion and state. So the idea that secularity cannot incorporate Islamic principles is wrong. It just can’t incorporate ALL of it absolutely which in reality is what most Malays have been practising ever since they adopted Islam and basically have in mind.
DAP has shown while it fights for the ideals of separation of religion and state HAVE NEVER STATED its for ABSOLUTE SEPARATION. this is because we are way too deep already in mixing religion and state and its just pointless to argue about absolute separation. For the record, PAP, the older brother/cousin/relative of DAP does not practise absolute separation of religion and state, it practises what it calls ‘managed separation of religion and state’.
break a little bit.
can we interview muslim chinese in china and muslim indian in india…to say what they feel…then you can make wish judgement on malaysian politics scenario. if you can only talk…and talk…and only see your neighborhood…never do your own research..then you are only talk rubbish….
Heheheeh.. I have dollahed you all for the past 5 years
http://sloone.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/walktogether.jpg?w=300&h=240
Answer: $
Do you think amno can survive without cronyism?
Bro bigjoe,
Zak_hammaad is right when he says that:
‘ secular ideology that DAP proposes is impossible for most Malays to stomach because it directly contradicts Islam’.
I can actually agree with the statement as being a malay muslim myself, it directly relates to me. Although I do not consider myself as ultra-religious, my conscience is clear that one day I’ll be able to practice the teachings of Islam whole heartedly. There is absolutely no doubts about that!
You are misguide when you say:
(i) The “Malay opposed the idea of secularity based on populist and not based on facts”.
(ii) Secularity does not contradict Islam.
As a race, the “Malay” can choose to be whatever that they have wanted to be. That’s why you’ll see so many malays in the like of UMNO’s ultra-elite, those “punks” from the ranks of malay youth, those “mat & minah rempits”, those “bohsia’s”, those socialite’s who frequently goes to pubs, discos, bars etc… These malays doesn’t quite take Islam seriously and they themselves are sometimes are misguided about Islam. That’s why you can see a lot of “self-confessed” muslims asking for bribes, are corrupted to the core, racists and doing a lot of things which are a blatant contradictions to the teachings of Islam. However, I’m not condemning anybody. It’s a freedom of choice and it’s up to them to be whatever they’ve wanted to be…
However it is very much different for real “muslims”, who wants or hope to really practice Islam in it’s entirety. Muslims are not bound by race. Muslims are supposed to be as anybody in this world who confess to the teachings of Islam. How can these people accept Secularism when it is actually the opposite of Islam. Literally, Islam means “submission”. It is a “way of life” for a life long journey. A journey for oneself until the time we all die. Therefore, how can a muslim accept secularism when Islam is supposed to be a way of life?
About the so-called rich Muslims who spend so much time and even migrate in droves to Western secular countries, it’s all about a matter of preferences. Islam never forced anybody to confirm to it’s teachings. It’s up to the individual. Islam is also about practicality. It does not enforce itself on any country where the majority of peoples are not muslim. Neither does it cordoned the oppression of minority where the muslims are the majority (That’s why the very practice of UMNO here in Malaysia has nothing to do with Islam). That is why you’ll see temples are allowed to be built in Kelantan under PAS-led government. That is why all of the talks regarding racial issues with UMNO is very un-Islamic and shouldn’t be allowed to happened in the first place.
That’s also why I cant understand the “phobia” of DAP or any “non-muslims” in Malaysia who will jump to the merely words on anything islamic? Try to understand this. UMNO did what it did because it choose to be an “Ultra-Nationalist” malay party. Nothing to do with Islam. The word Islam comes later when UMNO is in a dilemma when the malay world is experiencing a revival in Islam. So as any political party, in order to become relevant it has to also associate itself with islam, albeit in a very suspicious manner.
Zak_hammaad asks readers on this blog:
Q1. “Do you ever pick up a book and read?”
Q2. “Do you ever get out of your house and travel …?”
I am here to report that we are all illiterate or semi-illiterate at best. If we could read at all, our reading skills, unlike yours, are limited to reciting nursery rhymes. As for travel, the furthest we have travelled has been as far as our own backyards to tend to our cows and goats – unlike you who has traveled the world, been there done that.
Secularism, as I understand it,is adoctrine of separation of state affairs from religious affairs.It simplymeans preventing any religion from controlling government or government institutions and exercising political power.It is officially neutral in matters of religion,neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs or practices.Precisely because of this, secularism offers the best protection to religions pratised by minority groups of any country.
Zak,how could secular idealogy be so inimical that Malays can’t stomach it because it directly contradicts Islam.How could that be since secularism is neutral
in religious matters,neither supporting nor opposing any particular religious beliefs and practices, unless of course you tell me that Islam’s objective is to make any state they are in Islamic and replace existing laws by installing syariah laws.If you say it is then I can begin to understand the fundamental problem afflicting our world today.
As far as I know you would not find objections from other religions like Hinduism,Buddhism, Christianity,Taoism in embracing secularism because inherent in its practice is a sense of fair play.
Secularism by definition means ‘off this world’. Basically the system of government must be based on human reason above all else and divinity is not a begining of everything which is theological. Check your definition and understandings. Most Malay if you ask them if secularism is ungodly, agree which just goes to show their idea of secularism among them is not based on facts. Just because Secularism means human reason is to be used, its up to us to chose how much divinity we want when human reason fails. The US has took a stand of never, its not necesarily so although its 240 year experiment has proven to be very interesting and powerful.
Zak for your eyes only:
PAS+UMNO= Party Islam Malaysia
DAP+PKR+MCA+MIC+GERAKAN+PPP and other small parties= PR
I want peace and not disaster and that we can definitely get in this beautiful country for years to come. We need only the right person to manage this country. You know what I mean.
Should this be the case:
Chinese tax-payers pay into a Chinese-only fund.
Malay tax-payers pay into a Malay-only fund.
Indian tax-payers pay into an Indian-only fund.
Each race will determine how the tax-$ to be spent.
so on & so forth.
I was trying to understand why so suddenly the issue of “PAS talk to UMNO” covers this page again. Anything happened recently that PAS is caught talking to UMNO again? I thought that issue was over and PAS has reiterated many times here and there that PAS will stick to PR and won’t pack with UMNO.
OIC, the real messege by LKS above is not about that, but it is on LKS’s indication of his deep worry about PAS’s policy of implementing HUDUD/QISAS (whether together with UMNO or independently).
A good number of comments here are indicating that PAS should leave PR. For good? It is not ok for PAS to be in PR and implement hudud for muslim s(only for muslim)? Is is really better to require PAS to leave PR and implement Hudud with UMNO instead? Are you sure?
DAP wants the Malaysian Malaysia (Still a racial issue). But PAS wants HUDUD for MUSLIM – Muslim ONLY – this is not a racial issue. And still you saying PAS is THAT BAD?
Will “HUDUD for MUSLIM” spoil your “Malaysian Malaysia” agenda?
Do you actually wish to say that there shouldn’t be any Pas’s Syariah/Hudud Law (only for Muslim) in Malaysia? Syariah Court must be replaced with DAP’s Secular Law? Is it like that?
Be careful, friends! UMNO is your “enemy”. and PAS seems to be your enemy too? Then…. how? Go back to UMNO, right?