SMS and phone calls have been flying around of imminent police action against Anwar Ibrahim.
I have spoken to Anwar over the phone and he is expecting the worst.
Malaysiakini had filed the following report two hours ago:
Aide alleges sodomy: Report lodged
Jun 28, 08 11:03pm
Updated June 29, 08 01.30 amA police report has been lodged against PKR de facto leader Anwar Ibrahim for allegedly sodomosing one of his aides – the second time that such an accusation had been made in over 10 years.
The report was lodged by the 23-year-old victim at the Jalan Travers police station at 6pm.
KL police chief DCP Muhammad Sabtu Osman has confirmed that the report had been made.
It is learnt that Anwar met with a number of party leaders at an emergency meeting late tonight.
At 11.15pm, PKR sent out an SMS message stating that the police had detained Anwar’s special aide Saiful Bahari this afternoon and forced him to lodge a police report about being sodomised by his boss.
It added that the police are expected to arrest Anwar soon.
Meanwhile, Anwar is expected to comment on this latest crisis at a pre-arranged press conference tomorrow.
The press conference is scheduled to be held after a meeting between Anwar and all PKR members of parliament and state assemblypersons.
Accused of sodomy in 1997
Anwar, a former deputy prime minister and finance minister of Malaysia, was sacked from the government in 1997 for allegedly being involved in sodomy and abuse of power.
In 1999, he was sentenced in a highly controversial trial to six years in prison for corruption, and in 2000, to another nine years for alleged homosexual acts.
However in 2004, the Federal Court – the country’s highest court – reversed the second conviction and he was released.
Anwar has always maintained that the charges were a government hatched political conspiracy against him, a move denied by the government.
‘A very serious situation’
Party sources said that Anwar was chairing a party supreme council meeting at a hotel in Shah Alam when he received an SMS at about 9pm on Saturday night about the police report lodged against him.
He apparently then told the party leaders that his aide Saiful had been missing for two days.
“He then received another SMS at about 9.30pm and his faced changed dramatically after reading that SMS,” said a party insider.
“He did not reveal the details of the SMS but merely said that the situation was very serious,” added the insider.
Anwar is said to have left the supreme council meeting to meet his lawyers until about 11pm.
The council however continued their meeting without Anwar.
Party leaders are saying that they have to be prepared for any eventuality.
Meanwhile at about 1am about 400 people hade gathered outside the hotel in Shah Alam to ensure that nothing happens to Anwar.
Sounds more like a desperate act strategised by the people at UMNO.
They’re definitely going by, Kill or Be Killed!!
To frame anyone for any false charges and later planting false evidences is diabolical.
Imagine what the Police can do. With a reciprocal tolerance from their political masters, one can evidently notice why police reports lodged against BN politicians or prominent figures connected to the powers-that-be are mostly uninvestigated and the police abuses are mostly whitewashed by their own men. No wonder until now the IPCMC still failed to be enact.
I am wondering as well who is really in charge? Is it PM Najib Tun Razak?
If Anwar did not do it as I believe that the police report was premeditated with coercion on the complainant who alleged that Anwar sodomized him, Malaysia is definitely not a safe place to live in.
A coordinated sweep by UMNO, they are trying to pin point one by one…
But on the other side, Anwar will have the chance to clear his name if their plan does not go well…
People will be watching, we can see much clearly this time…
in 1998, it was M’s conspiracy (watch this, clearly explain – http://jahilgoblog.net/?p=76)
after 10 years, they expect the same old stories can turn ANWAR down again!
Well, let see how many Malaysians will believe this lame, dirty, ugliest political (i wont call this is conspiracy, as it is so OBVIOUS!) tricks AGAIN! we have grown 10 years smarter dear UMNO!
I believe most of us are furious now!
Well, if ANWAR will be arrested due to such cause, NAJIB should be arrested as well for a 1000X worse allegation! However, i dont have faith with our judiciary and police forces. The only hope is PEOPLE. RAKYAT. We should all unite to save ANWAR as how to pledge himself to save us from BN’s dark days!!
if it’s UMNO’s doing… it’s just too damn obvious and old…
i’m not saying it’s not them tho…
just hv a feeling there’s more to it….
anyhow, next week’s petrol hike rally may just hv another agenda added to it….
Guys,
This time don’t let UMNO/BN push DSAI around….AGAIN!
We have had enough.
Please put a stop to all this nonsense.
We need a steady government and everyone is/was looking for him to do it.
We have to save our country!!!
Please! This is the last straw, period!
Now or never, if not Malaysia will go down the drain from here on!!!
This country is a goner…..because people in general just do not want to fight for anything…….if Anwar was set up…….a million people should be out in the streets tomorrow………but the KFCs, Mcdonalds, and the Jaya Juscos will make certain that people in their comfort zones will remain there….if we dont warch it…..we will be a Burma….not Thailand or Phillipines…….the Badawi junta with the help of our very very very corrupted police force will rule this land…….the people must rise or the Agong must send in the army…….the buck has to stop here……
29
Jun
08 Press statement on police report
— PRESS STATEMENT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE —
June 29, 2008, SHAH ALAM, MALAYSIA
The police report lodged against me earlier today is a complete fabrication. I believe we are witnessing a repeat of the methods used against me in 1998 when false allegations were made under duress. This is clearly a desperate attempt by the Barisan Nasional regime to arrest the movement of the Malaysian people towards freedom, democracy and justice.
The report has been organized by interested parties to attack me in retaliation for evidence I have recently obtained implicating IGP Musa Hassan and the AG Gani Patail in misconduct including fabrication of evidence in the cases launched against me in 1998-1999. This vile attack will not prevent me from releasing this dossier to the public.
I urge the Malaysian people to stand against the repressive forces that will be unleashed by the government in the coming days and weeks. We expect the media, the judiciary and the police force to all come under the direct and unchecked control of the executive.
My fellow Malaysians – we took a bold step forward on March 8th towards a new dawn for freedom and justice for all of our citizens. This people’s movement for change must go on with all of our strength and conviction.
ANWAR IBRAHIM
What an unexpected made up event.
We need a real revolution
AN APPEAL TO MALAYSIA’S ATTORNEY GENERAL
Please, please if you want to have Anwar charged with some crime, please do not let it be ‘sodomy’. There is talk now of demonstrators gathering in front of Malaysia’s Consulate in New York. Every American would think that Malaysian leaders have nothing better to do than sodomising their aides!
THIS is the defining moment in the history of our nation. Whether we wither away or emerge a trully great nation depends on the events of the next few weeks.
This is DSAI’s press statement:
— PRESS STATEMENT FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE —
June 29, 2008, SHAH ALAM, MALAYSIA
The police report lodged against me earlier today is a complete fabrication. I believe we are witnessing a repeat of the methods used against me in 1998 when false allegations were made under duress. This is clearly a desperate attempt by the Barisan Nasional regime to arrest the movement of the Malaysian people towards freedom, democracy and justice.
The report has been organized by interested parties to attack me in retaliation for evidence I have recently obtained implicating IGP Musa Hassan and the AG Gani Patail in misconduct including fabrication of evidence in the cases launched against me in 1998-1999. This vile attack will not prevent me from releasing this dossier to the public.
I urge the Malaysian people to stand against the repressive forces that will be unleashed by the government in the coming days and weeks. We expect the media, the judiciary and the police force to all come under the direct and unchecked control of the executive.
My fellow Malaysians – we took a bold step forward on March 8th towards a new dawn for freedom and justice for all of our citizens. This people’s movement for change must go on with all of our strength and conviction.
ANWAR IBRAHIM
———————————————————–
Ever wonder why there is no action on the recommendations of the Royal Commission on the Police? Ever wonder why there is a deafening silence on the reforms within the Judiciary? Want to bet whether there will be any positive outcome to deport illegal immigrants in Sabah?
I don’t need to point you to an answer because the answer is already there for all to see. The De Facto Law Minister has noble intentions but it is obvious there are others more powerful than him or the PM within UMNO. If I were him, I would resign in a huff because you cannot teach old dogs new tricks.
I have digressed, but the point is if we have the same government we will see the same abuses repeated over and over again for the next 50 years simply because they are hoping they don’t have to change. They want to maintain status quo for the same reasons a dog will clutch on to his bone until he chews the marrow off it and reduce it to pulp. They will not change because they don’t want to change and they hope they don’t have to because in time we will forget.
So we must not (forget). We must hound them with their abuses and misdeeds and pounce on them when the time is right. They will bark, gnarl and growl, they will chase us and they will bite us but we must not let ourselves forget.
As we await with bated breath on the outcome of the police report against DSAI, we must not forget that:
We want a government of the Rakyat, by the Rakyat and for the Rakyat. Politicians are the servants of the Rakyat. We are paying them to build a better future for the Rakyat, not for themselves. Enough is enough. No more politicians enriching themselves at the Rakyat’s expense, no more wastages of our country’s resources, no more abuses of power for personal agendas, no more BN.
Jokes aside, we cannot let this happen!
So how will Abdullah respond? Party officials told The Malaysian Insider that the PM has been briefed on the move to outflank him. His supporters are in fighting mode and believe that Abdullah should use all the powers of incumbency as the PM to fight any attempt to usurp his position.
Instead of going meekly like Ghafar in 1993, they want him to borrow a page from the Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad playbook and fight like the former prime minister did when Anwar moved against him in 1998. But party officials close to Abdullah say that he and Dr Mahathir are as different as light and day and the former is unlikely to use all the “tools and tactics’’ of incumbency to stay in power.
read more here
it is like the writer has PREMONITION or could he be one of dot dot dot?
It can be depressing or it can be a blessing in disguise depending on how you look at it. I prefer to look at the glass as half full. We may not have to wait until September for it to be FULL full.
To be or not to be, that is the question. We can sit pretty under the air-cond and sigh and talk about it with friends and family or we can decide to do something about it. It may not have to be something as drastic as rushing out to bomb all bridges leading to DSAI to prevent the police from arresting him, perillous since only a “C4 expert” can carry it out and we only have a handful of those (experts) in Malaysia ;)
My point being, every small little action helps. From the disseminating of information via email, blogs or sms on any news you find helpful, moral and financial support, even prayers for his safety will be a jolly good way to start.
My view is Malaysians are more informed and smart nowadays compared to 10 years ago. You may fool some people some time but you can’t fool all the people all the time. Any foolish moves from the powers that be such as this is miscalculated and will only harden the resolve of the Rakyat and at the same time hasten the BN’s demise.
So bring it on I say. Make the Rakyat angrier as if we are not angry enough with oil prices, inflation and shrinking savings. 10 RPK arrests cannot beat this mother of all arrest. HIDUP DSAI!
OMG! I can’t believe it! What the hell is wrong with these people! Please, please don’t let this happen again. The RAKYAT must be strong and stay united against this hopeless, corrupted and heartless government. If they get around having their dirty way again this time, I’m afraid that is it for Malaysia..that is it :'(
Is it the strategy of somebody to divert the people attention regarding the C4 case?
1st = Petrol hike
2nd = Put Anwar into jail
3rd = ???
4th = ???
5th = ???
Dear BN, you can never gain my vote until the day i die.
While I enjoy the cool summer day in UK, this is indeed shocking news. Does the end justifies the means?
Will all the brave men and women in Malaysia, show the corrupt BN government that it is people power that decides Anwar’s fate.
May our great God/Allah protect Anwar and Malaysia from the new round of victimisation.
Battle Stations!! Code Red !!
Talks about staying united don’t mean much if right thinking Malaysians are going to be mere bystanders yet again!! If Anwar is arrested Malaysians should take to the streets this time. It is time they make a difference.
Key members of the police and the armed forces should be made to ‘declare’ their loyalty now to King and country. Our Armed Forces have been subservient to civilian authority for far too long and should see their role more as keepers of that moral authority which BN has recently lost – the legitimacy and the moral authority to rule in a democracy dedicated to freedom, justice and the rule of law.
The Malay Rulers must be involved in the process. Otherwise it is déjà vu all over again!
Even if Annuar goes there are other capable leaders who can helm the party.This arrest if made will make way for the total capture of the country by the alternative government in the next election.UMNO had forgotten about the black eye which led to the defeat of BN in Terengganu.This time around the country will see some dramatic response unlike during the Mahathir era.Such a move to bring down leaders will not do good to the country.The police with the help of anybody can frame any charges but it will finally reflect on them.Are we becoming another Mugabe?
I am deeply sadden by this horrendous news!
This absurd accusation can happen to anyone … we must put a stop to all this.
10 years ago, although i knew DSAI was innocent i could not do nothing to help. Seriously, please tell me how can I help?
Police officer gets a mere DISCIPLINARY ACTION for raping a 17-year old girl in polic station.
A thorn in the flesh like DSAI? 10 years? That is if IGP Musa Hassan and AG Abdul Gani Patail can pull off another fabrication trick on the rakyat. We have wised up, mind you!
So DSAI & RPK, show us the proofs
Holy sit, here we go for again to annul the anal.
If there is a time our ‘rulers’ has a role to play as the defender of the people, this is it. The citizenry have practically exhausted all venues for justice, and we are taxed and strained mentally and physically to the limit of our resolve. What more must we sacrifice that we might see righteousness?
This is total disregard to the peoples political will.
Are we heading towards a pariah nation ?
Are we ready for sanctions from the international community ?
There will be another political tsunami to sweep away the BN for good.
The government is underestimating the peoples’ will.
Let all Malaysians learn from the history of the world: In every political crisis, the first thing and most powerful thing to do is to pray to God that He will interevene for the truth to prevail, the lies to be exposed, the injustice to be reversed and the innoncent to be protected from the evil that has taken the hearts of men.
So let us unravel the enemy’s plans and bind their feet before they take further action by praying for God’s divine intervention.
2008 was prophecied by a foreign visitor last year as a year of change and birth pangs for Malaysia. If the Opposition leader is charged and arrested, is now the time for all citizens to gather their families and friends together and pray as a nation that the next tsunami will be as peaceful and mature as the first one on 8 March 2008?
This government is losing its credibility. It is taking us all to
‘ holland ‘
To most Malaysians indeed they view with concerns how polarized PDRM management is towards the RPK SD [in connection with murder case of the Mongolian] versus the sodomy report [against DSAI]. Going by PDRM verbage as reported both in the msm and alternative media, the partiality of PDRM towards the sodomy report is clear: action against the perpetrator.
In the RPK SD, PDRM action is mooted against RPK the ‘reporter’ who made the declaration.
It is modus operandi of the PDRM, and many police around the world, to work with the informants or the reporters in the first place. Many Malaysian can testify with their first or second hand experiences to this.
So what and why, in this sodomy report, has caused PDRM intensity and focus not on the aide who made the report? This indeed is a major diversion from the norms.
More baffling still. PDRM know the Malaysian public can see through this, and yet they are doing it. One explanation such attitude is borne on the confidence that the Malaysian public is lethargic at large, and devoid of the will and courage to rise against them however the man on the street is abused.
Perhaps, so long as the subject matter does not spell directly an affront against melayu, PDRM know for sure the Malaysian public will not bother.
The country has gone to the dogs. Nothing better than Mugabe’s regime. Perhaps a retaliation for linking him to Mongolia. Sodomy again? They can’t be so uninventive. Or are they getting secret advice from the former PM?
OK! OK! Where’s the mattress?
Clearly now its an all out declaration of WAR!!!
This time there will only be one winner!!
Looks like we are heading towards a declaration of Emergency and a suspension of Parliament – on the worst case scenario.
I am shocked hearing such accusations. Just cannot imagine how on earth can some people in UMNO or Govt be so so so evil to try concort such allegations again. Dont they have any heart inside them?
The police seems to act so quickly…..and its them against us rakyat. Remember the BMC case? Police can gang up to beat, kick and battered a young man till he is like a pulp…and any actions against those who did it? NO! They even have the nerve to say its his facult. Who in their sense of mind will dare to knock into a police?
The police are licensed gangsters. Rakyat must wake uo to such accusations and showed the police their unfair un just biasness is all rubbish. I wan to puke.
This is what happens when the Police, the AG’s Chambers and the Judiciary are beholden to the executive. Badawi will never institute reforms as promised because UMNO can never afford to have independence of such institutions. Their entire reason of survival is the use of such institutions against those who oppose them, those who expose their wrongdoings.
Such acts of desperation can only be equated to those of Mugabe. There is no other parallel. Even Kim Jong Il has decided to come clean with the rest of the world.
If Anwar is arrested for a mere police report lodged against him, then there will be such an outcry amongst the rakyat that there will be insufficient prisons to accomodate those of us who are outraged.
WTF?
I didn’t know September starts tomorrow for BN
haha they got so scared they are doing expected craps
at the wrong time. Can they be any dumber? Maybe they cud be!
Pathetic Political Move
Desperate people will do desperate things. Mahathir was desperate to be rid of Anwar in the 90s, and the den of thieves is desperate to be rid of Anwar now. The mainstream press is again shamelessly questioning the credibility of Anwar, when it took them almost one week to print the Declaration of RPK.
We really need to get this country on the right footing, and no half measures this time. The den of thieves must be made to account for their lawlessness.
Yeah, Najis, go find a mattress, a DNA expert, a judge, a butt doctor, some police investigators and we can repeat the trial of the 90s.
The preliminary thought that comes to mind is that we should brace for difficult times of protracted political uncertainty aggravating a deteriorating economic situation.
The news on Anwar is not only bad for him but bad for the Opposition (Paktan Rakyat) of which he is defacto head and, ironically, bad too for the government, which knowing it, it will pursue Anwar’s prosecution.
I say this even IF Anwar were really guilty of the latest allegations (which I am not prejudging or saying, at this juncture that he is or is not).
In matters of this sort, the truth matters not, what matters is evidence and even more important public and popular perception/bias of what is the truth.
No matter what – even if the state were to produce DNA as evidence, the public will not, at this juncture, believe.
In the first place the Federal Court on 2nd September 2004 overturned by majority of 2-1 Anwar’s earlier conviction on Sodomy.
To charge him once again, his lawyers would straightaway raise preliminary procedural objection of what is known as ‘double jeopardy’.
Derived from a fundamental and ancient rule of law that extends back to the time of the Ancient Greeks “autrefois acquit” or double jeopardy is both a rule of law and a legal right that no person should be tried twice for the “same offence” of which he has been previously acquitted or convicted. This principle deeply ingrained in Anglo-American system of jurisprudence find expression in Article 7(2) of our Federal Constitution.
The underlying idea – and spirit behind Double Jeopardy rule – is that the State with all its resources and power should not be allowed to make repeated attempts to convict an individual for an alleged offence, thereby subjecting him to embarrassment, expense and ordeal and compelling him to live in a continuing state of anxiety and insecurity, as well as enhancing the possibility that even though innocent he may be found guilty….
How the rule is applied in Malaysia is not very developed by past cases, and much will depend on the lawyers arguing what is the scope of the expression “same offence” and whether a fact matrix involving different victim, a different time and place would exclude double jeopardy application on grounds that it is not same offence. Even if double jeopardy is thrown out, they will still have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. All this investigations, trial motions will drag and take time, maybe years.
The problem is – even if the technical requirements of double jeopardy could not be established by Anwar’s defence team – the spirit of what double jeopardy seeks to guard Anwar against would be satisfied, in lay public opinion.
The government is in the eyes of the public already guilty : the Lingam video clip shows a judiciary compromised by executive interference; past prosecution of Anwar has been shown to be political persecution vindicated by his earlier sodomy conviction being overturned; questions swirl around the manner of state prosecution of Altantuya Shaaribuu murder case especially in light of RPK’s statutory declaration, and people question why when it comes to sexual deviance like sodomy there is more enthusiasm and alacrity to pursue investigation twice over than a graver offence like murder, and so and so on….
Against this backdrop of negative public opinion, there is a real risk that if Anwar were prosecuted, many people would take to the streets, which the government may respond by crack down.
The gridlock is that if authorities manage to procure convincing evidence (DNA for example), the ‘powers that be’ will not give up bringing down he who represents the biggest threat to their political survival and relevance – and equally no matter how convincing the forensic evidence, it will not convince an iota of the pre-set beliefs of people to whom the very existence of BN is disaproved as a scourge on this country : they will say the evidence is fabricated/manufactured; the complainant aide (mere 3 months recruited to help in election) was planted as agent provocateur; that the whole prosecution is mala fide trying to undo and unwind the people’s gain from the poiltical tsunami of 8th March.
The government including its entire criminal justice and administration system will not be given the benefit of doubt in the Court of Public Opinion and this is where the gridlock lies – two opposing positions neither giving in to the other.
So all this means that if the authorities persist in prosecution (which it is 99.99% likely to do), it may – though I hope not – lead to massive confrontation and unrests on the streets, bad for peace, bad for investment, bad for everybody.
I don’t know the background of Anwar’s aides, Saiful Bahari. Was he formerly a member of UMNO before joining PKR?
I think PKR should admit UMNO ex-members into their party with the utmost caution in case they are spies of UMNO or sabotagers.
Saiful Bahri might not have been an UMNO member before, but decided to try his luck after being lured by money and promises offered by UMNO.
The police were said to have FORCED Saiful Bahri to lodge a police report about being sodomised by his boss. Rarely we see Malaysian police so zealous in their work; obviously they are being controlled by powerful unseen hands.
Would a person, seeing that he has a good chance of becoming the next PM (the highest office in the country), do anything negative to jeopardize his chances? I think he certainly would not.
Before the elections, I was having a chat with a senior Treasury official, and he advised us to brace for difficult economic times ahead. He said that BN was spending money like there was no tomorrow, Badawi went against Treasury advice in giving out the quantum of increases to the civil service, etc. That was when oil was at US$100 per barrel.
Now with oil at US$140 per barrel, the US (our largest trading partner) heading into stagflation, Badawi throwing cookies to renegade states and trying desperately to throw cookies to the UMNO grassroots to ensure his own survival, there is no money left in the federal coffers. Contractors big and small have not been paid, prices of raw materials are skyrocketing, and there are so many stalled or half-completed projects.
What do we expect this corrupt regime to do ? The tactics that they learnt from Mugabe – diversion, distraction and if these don’t work, go on the offensive.
I am dumb founded. People who are desperate can resort to desparate measures. Unless the country is purged of such evils and wickedness in high places we the rakyat will forever be doomed to live under the rule of darkness.
After my initial horror reaction to the news, I now realise how desperate the BN gomen has become. It is now so blatantly obvious that this gomen is clinging onto straws to stay afloat. Battered by pressure from every kopitiam corners from Perlis to Sabah, the enemies of the rakyat have resorted to another dastardly act of extreme evil.
However, the rakyat has wisen up. Unlike the last time, DSAI was totally defenceless. But today, he has strong backing from all four corners. Yes, the gomen will not stop at disparaging all that acts against its wishes, rightly or wrongly but its time is UP!!
DSAI should be able to deflect this latest accusation and start his own counterattacks. No doubt BN has copied Sun Tze’s ART OF WAR but they haven’t learnt that from the failure of the first attempt that eventually collapsed. This time, they shall not be forgiven. Like I said before, its time to build a BIGGER, LARGER SG BULOH JAIL but this time, the INMATES SHALL BE THE ACCUSERS!
“No person shall be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb” (it sounds odd because I’m borrowing the language of the Fifth Amendment, U.S. Constitution).
What is the ‘same offence’? Only conduct that occurs in one criminal transaction can be treated as one offence. A single criminal transaction is one episode so closely linked in time place and circumstances that it must be examined as one unitary whole. Thus you are not placed in jeopardy twice for the same offence when you are prosecuted twice, once for stealing the hubcaps on the left side of the car and once for stealing the hubcaps on the right side of the car the following day. But if you had stolen all four hubcaps in one criminal transaction, all four hubcaps would constitute the same offence.
It is true if you’re not careful you could go wrong easily as to what constitutes a continuing criminal conduct. But what should be clear is that a retrial is not possible when the accused has been acquitted.
The fact that Anwar had been charged some time ago with the offence of sodomy does not mean he is now put at risk twice if charged for the offence of sodomy. It is not the ‘same offence’!
I don’t know where you are going with your comment:
“To charge him once again, his lawyers would straightaway raise preliminary procedural objection of what is known as ‘double jeopardy’”
There is no double jeopardy involved.
Sorry, above comment is meant to address issues raised earlier by Jeff QC.
“Now with oil at US$140 per barrel, the US (our largest trading partner) heading into stagflation…” Godfather
Don’t know about stagflation but the word most feared today is recession. DOW plumetted to a new low, consumer confidence is low, people are not spending etc. Food prices are rising. Everyday you hear people getting laid off, losing their jobs as businesses try to cope with the declining demand. People who should be retiring are not retiring and are working off whatever income they could earn.
IRS has issued the first round of tax rebates in an attempt to make consumers spend money. The second round is coming soon. But it is a case of too little too late.
ooops tax rebate checks
I read with sadness about the state of Malaysian politics of today. To revert to barbaric political tactics to stay in power is both ruthless and shameless and simply appalling. My thoughts and prayers to the Leaders who try to make a difference and a change to all Malaysians. God bless.
So far it was 23-year-old Anwar’s aide, Saiful Bahari who lodged the police report of being a victim of sodomy at the Jalan Travers police station at 6 pm 28th June. Police have not yet investigated the report, much less submitted their findings to AG, and AG for the govt has not preferred any charge yet.
However as preemptive move, Anwar said in his statement – “The report has been organised by interested parties to attack me in retaliation for evidence I have recently obtained implicating IGP (inspector-general of police) Musa Hassan and the AG (attorney-general) Gani Patail in misconduct including fabrication of evidence in the cases launched against me in 1998-1999. This vile attack will not prevent me from releasing this dossier to the public.”
Can Anwar disclose and prove who are specifically the “interested parties” who ‘organised’ Saiful Bahari to lodge a report that Anwar alleges “fabricated”?
Anwar has made a serious allegation which, if true and proven, is not only exculpatory of allegations against him but in addition also implicate Saiful Bahari and all those parties” who ‘organised’ him to lodge the report in the offence of criminal conspiracy.
The onus is on whim to prove what he alleges and how he could in first instance exercise such lack of due care to have placed himself in a position of appointing a political aide, whom he now alleges is in apparent conspiracy with “interested parties” out to destroy him.
Anwar said unscrupulous persons filed the sodomy report against him because he has collected evidence of wrong doings of two top police officials M. H. and A. G. (see Malaysiakini, Chinese Edition). He said the sodomy accusation would not stop him from publishing and exposing their wrong doings.
He urged Malaysians to be prepared for a government repression in the next few days or weeks.
Undergrad2,
I understand what you’re saying about double jeopardy & separate offences but this guy (Anwar) is a smart guy with smart lawyers coming out with his latest statement (earlier posted.
The test for double jeopardy is whether it is a continuing same transaction between the first offence of sodomy for which he was charged, convicted and acquitted and the second that he thinks that he will be….
So to show same continuing transaction of the first to the second, his latest statement – (quote) “ I have recently obtained implicating IGP (inspector-general of police) Musa Hassan and the AG (attorney-general) Gani Patail in misconduct including fabrication of evidence in the cases launched against me in 1998-1999. This vile attack will not prevent me from releasing this dossier to the public.”
See the drift and connection (in light of double jeopardy’s objective – to not allow repeated attempts (one continuing to the other as if one transaction albeit separated by different victims and time) from one “interested source” to convict an individual for an alleged same offence, thereby subjecting him to embarrassment, expense and ordeal ? :)
PR leaders must closely scrutinize the background of their aides to prevent gold-diggers such as Azizan the driver and Saiful Bahari who can easily be bought over. This dirty tactic has been successfully applied by African despots to get rid of their opponents, so there is every chance that it will be successful here, too.
If the police believe that they can walk up to Anwar’s spacious home, whisk him away in unmarked police cars and detain him indefinitely under the Internal Security Act like they did in 1998, they will be in for a rude shock. Not only will Pakatan Rakyat bring large crowds onto the streets across the country but the authority of the BN government to rule Malaysia will be severely undermined.
Anwar has to be given due process, the police investigations must be transparent, and the evidence must be able to withstand the toughest scrutiny. Otherwise, it will be Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and his administration which will end up being on trial. And it will not be a pretty sight.
http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/home/42-lead-stories/1172-a-different-malaysia-10-years-on
People, please .. this may be an attempt to sidetrack us from major issues. Please concentrate Fully on C4 , Altantuya and the Statutory Declaration
Read his statement – “I believe we are witnessing a repeat of the methods used against me in 1998 when false allegations were made under duress. ..The report has been organised by interested parties to attack me in retaliation for evidence I have recently obtained implicating IGP (inspector-general of police) Musa Hassan and the AG (attorney-general) Gani Patail in misconduct including fabrication of evidence in the cases launched against me in 1998-1999. This vile attack will not prevent me from releasing this dossier to the public….”
In double jeopardy the “same transaction” test has been used. Here the preemptive move is to say that first sodomy charge and the future second though involving different victims and facts and separated in time are on both occasions triggered by same motivations and same set of interested parties against which justice requires that he should not be subject to two times jeopardy which is what the rule, at its heart, is all about.
This raises troubling questions. 1. it is very serious allegations he has made against the two top law enforcement officers in the nation, which if he has no such a dossier or if he has the dossier does not contain evidence that could stand the light of judicial scrutiny, Anwar will be in deep trouble over a separate issue/offence; on the other hand if he had this dossier all along, it raises troubling question of why didn’t he disclose its existence earlier (at the time he showed executive interference of judiciary by revealing about Lingam clip) .This is no good as this will lead to further questions of why he keeps dossiers (and not disclose them to public until he’s under pressure as like now) just like what he accuses his political enemies of doing by way of political blackmail!
God bless Malaysia !!
God bless Anwar !!
Justice will prevail !!!
To Undergrad2,
On the basis of what I said, he will likely raise “double jeopardy” defence – that the first offence of sodomy and the future second though involving diifferent victims, facts and place are still “same offence” (not as it is understood commonly by laymen) but in the special context of what it is intended in law of double jeopardy linking the first and second by “one transaction” criteria. You wiull note that his latest statement was made after legal advice.
UMNO sounds so great since it declares its’ Ketuanan Melayu and its’ Kedaulatan Melayu. Why is it attacking its’ own people ? There are other politicians committing moral crimes but they are so well protected and allowed to go on with their political careers. Why not just open up all the pandora boxes and see what interesting articles are inside ?
Let’s face it, if it is fabricated, they will have made sure that Saiful Bahari did have anal sex. Contrary to what many might think, anal sex is quite a frequent occurrence, despite of being looked down on.
So let us assume that the hospital does find traces of anal penetration. Who knows by whom? What next? Proven as guilty?
Please, not again!
The Federal Court on 2nd September 2004 overturned by majority of 2-1 Anwar’s earlier conviction on Sodomy. From then until now he has never raised any issue about AG or IGP’s role in 1998-1999 or anything about his dossier. Neither was there a need to : he was acquitted. So why now – and the inuendoes of link to Saiful Bahari? I thought it was obvious. In a nutshell he’s already premptiing and saying that they (authorities) don’t have to prove beyond reasonable doubt his guilt on sodomy because regardless whether Saiful Bahari’s allegations were true or false, provable or not, he is protected by rule against double jeopardy in article 7(2) of the constitution based on “same transaction” test.
UMNO can arrest and charge Anwar, nobody is going to believe UMNO.
See how the mainstream media works – their silence on RPK’s Statutory Declaration implicating Deputy Prime Minister Najib and his wife Rosmah and Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi, was deafening for days!
Now this Aide’s allegation against Anwar Ibrahim just couldn’t wait to get reported, even on last night’s news. This is Malaysia and its crony-owned controlled media, how dirty they are?!
RCI on Lingamgate implicated people like Tengku Adnan. He still remains as Sec-Gen of BN, and a senior cabinet minister. Yes, he has filed for judicial review, but he still struts around without a care in the world. Maybe he knows that with the AG’s Chambers, the Police and the ACA in cahoots with the BN administration, plus certain senior judges being tainted, there is practically no chance of him being brought to justice.
Justice is what UMNO says it is.
only those nobrainers will be swayed away by this stupid nonsense and those who fabricated this matter are worse than nobrainer
Don’t follow you Jeffrey QC!
What is that ‘same offence’ – that one criminal transaction, that one episode?
Only conduct that occurs in one criminal transaction can be treated as one offence. A single criminal transaction is one episode so closely linked in time place and circumstances that it must be examined as one unitary whole.
They could not make an Anwar movie of the type Chua Sial Leg is capable of, so they have to resort to this no-brainer
Umno would have planted him three months ago.
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If they arrest Anwar Ibrahim on Saiful Bahari’s polis report, while Deputy PM Najib and his wife Rosmah Mansor who have been implicated in Raja Petra’s Statutory Declaration, allegedly to have involved in murder of Mongolian Altantuya Shaariibu, also the Prime Minister of Malaysia Abdullah Ahmad Badawi as accessory to the crime, are still having a free run, then Malaysians must all take to the streets in protest! This is so one-sidedly unfair, despicable, and dirty. Are they above the law?
Double jeopardy won’t work in this case, but allegations of conflict and bias may sway the courts. Anwar is going to lodge police reports against the AG and the IGP.
If this is really fabrication, then PR should thank them for this stupid move, because even fence-sitters, non-Anwar fans and anyone with brains would be wondering…
Even if Anwar really does have perverted tastes, can he be soooo stupid as to put himself at risk, especially at this moment in time? No brainer.
This might actually hasten the demise of BN…
If Anwar has made report against IGP and AG for misusing their office, and misconduct, then they also should not be allowed to be involved in investigations into Raja Petra`s SD on the Altantunya case.
Only way is to have a Royal Commission Of Inquiry into the PM, DPM, Rosmah and Khairy
Is Malaysia a democratic country? Thought no one is guilty until proven. Or has the Rule change? This, I blame the component parties of BN – MCA and the likes. Silent for their vested interests until even our constitutional rights are gone. May this be a lesson to all elected representatives, the interests of those you represent must take precedence. We, electorates are no more ignorant. Time for CHANGE!
This is another BN’s tactic i.e. “fighting a BUSH FIRE(Altantuya aka C4) WITH BUSH FIRE”. They know they cannot fight a bush fire with a bone fire, so they create a “BUSH FIRE”….smart isn’t it!
It looks like BLOODAWI AND HIS GANG, NAJIS AND KHAIRY are sooooo BANKRUPT OF IDEA THAT THEY HAVE TO BORROW IDEA FROM MAHATHIR….what a shame!
Malaysiakini report June 08 9:42am – “a Police report is expected to be lodged against the police chief Musa Hassan and attorney-general A Gani Patail this morning over their alleged misconduct during Anwar Ibrahim’s trials in 1998-1999. Lawyers acting for the PKR de facto leader are expected to lodge the report.
You asking IGP to invetigate himself or AG to charge himself?
Of course not. The police report is to pave way for the defence of double jeopardy (if charged)…
The interesting point is that Saiful Bahari has only lodged a report. Police have not completed investigations; they have not said they would be arresting Anwar; the AG has not charged him.
So why out of a sudden lodge a report against the IGP & AG?
He got proof that Saiful Bahari’s report was linked to any conspiracy with the two top officers?
If not why lodge a police report of the alleged misconduct of these top officers during Anwar Ibrahim’s trials in 1998-1999 them only NOW and not before?
DSAI, you have to think most carefully of the consequences of your actions, and don’t listen to just legal advice without weighing against common sense and political judgment. Your lawyers may be good trial and legal strategists in court room and they give you good legal perspective but good legal perpective and preemptive measures may not necessarily be good political strategies, which only you should judge. Many (not all) lawyers have a myopic tunnel vision of analysing every move in terms of legal strategy. They think of winning their legal battles sometimes causing their clients to lose the bigger war.
Mahathir got away with it the last time……this time BERSIH, HINDRAF, REFORMASI MUST BE ON THE STREETS……..the people must save this land……….the PKR/DAP/PAS must mobilise their forces now…..this government and this police force must go…..the Agong must call in the army….BE PREPARED!!!!!!
Agree with Raven77,
A lot of Malaysians are cowards and ignorant. Thats why for 50 years we bieng fooled by BN.
If anything happens to DS Anwar Ibrahim, ITS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE ON TO THE STREETS AND FIGHT FOR A REVOLUTION!
No more 100k or 200k protesters, we need millions this time! And I am Definately ready to go on to the streets if DSAI got arrested. BN is Too Much. No point staying at home do the same thing you always do while LIFE is getting tougher due to BN’s action.
IT’S TIME!
I was shocked when i learned about this news because it’s so obvious they running out of excuse. What a joke! Guess we won’t see the coming debate between Datuk Ahmad Shabery with Datuk Seri Anwar then.
The latest development appears to be quite a desparate attempt to stop Anwar from carrying out his threat to entice the BN MP’s to defect to PKR.
The March 8, 2008 politaical tsunami is process towards change after 50 years of being governed by a powerful political party that has lost touch with her people. This augers well for the nation as we witness the emergence of a two party system and therefore more accountability. This is a creative process if we look at it from the natural five element theory … The March 8, 2008 tsunami is a water process and it nurtures ‘wood’ or change.
The move to re-arrest AI and hence create instability is a ‘fire ‘process… fire donsumes or destroys wood (change). Hold your breaths my fellow Malaysians… In nature no single force can absolutely overcome the other. We are just spectators to this powerful interplay of opposing forces… ;)
/// Michael Sun Says:
Today at 04: 12.47 (7 hours ago)
Does the end justifies the means? ///
Michael, this would be hilarious if the accusation against Anwar was not serious and tragic. I don’t think your pun was intended, but given the gravity of the situation, you should have been more careful with what you said.
Don’t worry, with hindsight – I don’t think your faux pas was intentional.
Undergrad2,
It is interesting for you to look up the scope what costitutes same offence by the “same-transaction” test in relation to double jeopardy developed after US supreme court case of Ashe v. Swenson, 397 . Here the one relying on such a defence has to show a consistent mala fide prosecutorial intent to get a person for certain offence (say) sodomy and where the earlier one failed, another one is soon after concocted, albeit based on different victim and place of offence, and upon such a single prosecutorial goal or intent being established, it is then proceeded to be argued that the first and second cases (though involving different victims) may yet be considered “same offence” by the same transaction test. Admittedly this same transaction test and its scope are still fraught with contesting different opinions and is being subject to further judicial refinement.
I suggest you all under People’s Party ……insist..Anwar to be like Lee Kuan Yew…sue and prove he is totally innocent and value his reputation…thus protecting the clean opposition image.
I hope People’s Party leaders…do not be like UMNO guys…talk alot…dare not sue.
Why do you say Anwar is expecting the worst?
Don’t tell me…he is expecting another kangaroo court case….to find him guilty? How can that be so..when oppositions are so strong…and no more dictator….ruling the country.
This will be a good test…how sincere and strong is People’s Party.
Maybe DAP is contented with Penang only?
Alas what have we become !
A 23 yr old strong young man could not fight the action of a 62 yr old weaker man !!
So hard to believe……..
This is what happens when some people don’t think twice during the recent GE12 and voted for the damn BN. Fuel price hikes, increase cost of living, economy going down the drain, Msia becoming a laughing stock of other countries, and the most recent news – Anwar Ibrahim being framed for sodomy again.
If the damn BN thinks that the people are stupid, they are definately insulting our intelligence. We, the ordinary Malaysian citizens are not stupid. The damn BN people are. Its time for us to wake up and stop voting for BN.
WE NEED A CHANGE!!
Why government always does something against the poor?
Now they want to collect wind fall tax from the small estate holder.
When the crude palm oil drop below RM 100 per ton, they never help the small estate holder, now the price become better, they want to impose will fall tax?
http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/9361/84/
Saiful Bukhari Azlan works for Deputy Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak.
Full Name: Mohd. Saiful Bukhari bin Azlan
IC No.: 850706-01-5687
IPTA: UNITEN
Student ID: EP075085
Course: Electrical & Electronic Engineering
Friendster: http://profiles.friendster.com/saifulbukhari
Other Activities:
* Participant, 2nd ASEAN Student Leader’s Summit & Cultural Festival, Philippines (January 22-26, 2007)
* Deputy President (I) Majlis Perwakilan Pelajar UNITEN (2006/2007)
Pak Lah & Najib are getting desperate…both see their grasp of the PM’s post slowly slipping away!
Desperate people will do desperate things.
They don’t care who they hurt or who the destroy as long as they achieve their selfish ends.
How long must we take this type of behaviour?!
God help Malaysia & Malaysians!
Not wanting to sound “I told you so” but this was what I wrote two days ago.
citizenwatch Says:
June 27th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 15: 26.15
The way BN and especially the PM and DPM go about with their daily routines despite RPK’s SD, among other things, as though nothing happened, is probably pointing to a bigger major plan by these heartless UMNO politicians. The 9MP Mid-Term Review is a subterfuge to buy time and also with the hope to convince the rakyat current economic woes are a result of global problems and will dilute whatever mismanagement and corruption by the government.
Despite their flip-flop ways, they are planning something which we have to be cautious about. They can either have the strategy of cut and run or continue with ruling, ‘business as usual’ with protracted strategy of misinformation through MSM until the next GE. Meanwhile, someting is up their sleeve while we underestimate them.We can’t let our guard down and get caught unaware.
*********************************************
The police report against Anwar is BN’s strategy to stop him and PR in their tracks and at the same time as a distraction to the explosive SD by RPK. BN is getting into the parameters of the psychology of bloggers by diverting attention from RPK’s SD which has been a hot damning topic for BN to Anwar’s so-called ‘faux pas’ hoping for negative feedbacks. But the govt’s credibility has taken such a beating if they conceive a badly planned script it will only backfire and what they say will not hold water.
The pro change blogging community should do well to continue to relentlessly seek for the truth and justice, press for more transparency and accountability from the govt, police, judiciary. The blogging and polemic for RPK’s SD have naturally cooled down but we are not going to let that happen. Don’t let the new episode from the BN script attacking Anwar distract us from continuing to do what we are here for.
“The damn BN people are. Its time for us to wake up and stop voting for BN.” – Cynthialeow
Cynthialeow, I think that the BN will do a Zimbabwe in Malaysia.
Win or lose, they’ll not relinquish power.
Time to think of the next move.
Citizenwatch, yes I read what you wrote and thought about it, that you may be right. You are.
Btw Din Merican has a pix of umno implant Saiful on his blog and this is what he wrote today:
“This is the accuser, Saiful Bukhari (picture in red neckie). My colleagues and I knew that he was planted by the other side. So we kept him under surveillance since the day he turned up in our office just before the March 2008 elections. It was a matter of time and we would have exposed him as someone with links to the office of the Deputy Prime Minister. He knew that the noose was tightening around his neck.
There was no security breach because he was not directly involved in the strategic activities of Parti KeADILan Rakyat. He was merely a coffee boy or a butler type.—Din Merican “
First – Anwar
Second – RPK
Third – Operation Lalang
Need to get ready for more
Din Merican’s blog:
http://dinmerican.wordpress.com
So how does that 35 year-old (sorry, now 45 years old) virgin fit into all this? How will she make her appearance again?
http://www.weebly.com/uploads/7/4/5/0/745037/4728017.jpg
“I suggest you all under People’s Party ……insist..Anwar to be like Lee Kuan Yew…sue and prove he is totally innocent and value his reputation…thus protecting the clean opposition image.” – Monsterball
Monsterball, I think that you’re out of whack this time.
This is Malaysia, not Singapore where everything is squeaky clean.
With the loaded dice against you, what chances have you got?
Your chances of winning in Genting is far better!
Good Luck to Malaysia!
10 years ago not many people knew of the INTER-NET.
10 years ago judges could be easyly bought.
10 years ago most people my age did not care about politics.
10 years ago 70% chiness believed what the goverment said,was all truth and nothing but the truth
10 years ago 80% of Indians believed what the goverment and Samy Vellu said was the truth and nothing but the truth.
10 years ago there was no HINDRAF.
10 years ago opposition was weak.
NOW 2008 WE MUST ALL ASK SHOW US HARD EVIDENCE .NOT HALF BAKED EVIDENCE .MOST OF ALL NOT JUST “HEAR SAY”PROVE AND MORE PROVE.
The ancient rulers of China consulted the “Yi Jing” for wisdom in dealing with difficult situations. Technology affords easy access to this ancient wisdom. For those interested particularly leaders of Pakatan Rakyat… this is what a quick consultation with this ancient method of divination reveals:
The PRESENT (Hexagram 36) is represented by the hexagram Ming Yi or brightness hidden:
The hexagram depicts the sun setting under the earth and darkness descending. It symbolises that disorder and chaos will prevail and all the evils associated with darkness have become rampant. In such a distorted and confused state, a wise man will quickly adapt to the changes, lie low or even feign weakness, becoming receptive, abating, and reducing his involvement in order not to attract the attention of the wicked. He may even go into exile or live in seclusion to avert danger. In this way, he lives a simple life and keeps himself healthy and fit. Saving his energy and remaining in his calmness, he reaffirms his goal and waits for the turn of his fate…
What’s in the future…? It lies in Hexagram 26: Da Chu or Great Accumulation
Be guided by wisdom….
I have reservation on RPK SD likewise I have the same opinion on the allegation on Anwar.
The government is not that dump, knowing very well Anwar aims and intentions, must already have intelligences monitoring his activities long time ago. Hence they would have all the evidence in picture or video form of Anwar’s wrong doing. What the government have to do is just release the picture or video and Anwar will automatically plummet. No need any police report, this only tell me that they do not have such bona fide proof, just another spin
I also do not believe that Anwar is that stupid to involve such in activities knowing very well that people have been watching him closely regarding such matter.
This tit of tat is not surprising, but the actions of both party are irresponsible. I pray for Royal intervention before it get worst.
Cheers
Ok so according to Din Merican/RPK’s blog, Saiful Bukhari planted with links to DPM office, so if its all fabrication, easy to rebut (given present climate of public opinion), why the need to lodge police report against other parties – examples IGP & AG – (knowing nothing its ‘pissing’ in the wind) over a dossier, onbly now disclosed to have existed and in his possesion but not before? What’s the rationale & strategy? Explain.
The following police report was made on 28 June 2008 at 5.45 PM by Mohd Saiful Bukhari bin Azlan, who turns 23 next week (i/c no 850706-01-5687):
“Saya Mohd Saiful Bukhari b Azlan ingin melaporkan bahawa saya telah diliwat oleh majikan saya. Perkara ini berlaku tanpa kerelaan saya. Kejadian terakhir berlaku 26/6/08 di Unit 1151, Kondominium Desa Damansara, Jln Setia Kasih, KL. Oleh itu, tujuan laporan ini dibuat untuk mendapat pembelaan dan keadilan keatas diri saya. Saya juga berasa bimbang dengan keselamatan diri dan keluarga saya jika perkara ini tersebar luas di khalayak ramai. Majikan saya Dato Seri Anwar Ibrahim – Ketua Umum PKR.”
Quoted from :http://rockybru.blogspot.com/
My guess is that some Bn seat is about to fall vacant, and they dont want DSAI contesting and winning it. So they came up with this charge, as a means to avoid losing to him in a by-election. They want to keep him out of parliament.
The renewal of sodomy charges against Anwar may be BN’s fatal mistake. The accuser was reportedly detained by the police for 2 days before coming out with his allegation. It looks like a repeat of 1998 just as Anwar is on the cusp of gaining political power.
However, the standard of proof required now must be very high. It cannot be based on the “confession” of one dubious accuser (who was not even medically examined) and forced out of 2 others by torture. The judge can be as biased as he wants, it does not matter. Malaysians will not be fooled.
To repeat the chicanery of 1998 would be a monumental error. The anger and revulsion will force this govt. from office. The people are braver now, the opposition is stronger, the govt. is weaker and the alternative media is fully developed. Even the mainstream media is less slavish. This may be BN’s last stand.
They must have thought that DSAI are as naive as he use to be. He is consider a hero and battle-scarred veteran now. Bring it on BN/Umno !!
Believe it or not, this latest episode from the BN script of attacking Anwar is the last straw for BN, the final nail in the coffin, spells doom for them.
The people get more furious, eyebrows raised in parts of the world. BN MPs with conscience and empathy who are undecided can start making ‘right’ decisions.
Right thinking people want to forget the black era of judiciary when droll antics of mattresses being carried into a court which was labelled after an iconic hopping animal in Australia, fabrications, flip-flop dates which were supposed to be incriminating, etc. Now this new script with an old story from BN surfaces like the fabled raising of the Titanic. It caused quite a stir but let’s see who gets shaken most.
To Jeffrey and Undergrad2,
I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that Undergrad2 is right that two different alleged cases of sodomy do not constitute the same offence.
It seems to me that we have to distinguish between ‘continuity within a single event’ and ‘continuity between different events’. Jeffery is of course right when he says that there are some continuities between the two different alleged cases (events) of sodomy that involve different victims, times and circumstances: a similar political motivation (i.e. the same trick), a similar circumstance under which the trick is played (‘under duress’) etc. But I think this is a continuity between different cases (or different transactions of offence) rather than a contuinity within the same offence. No doubt Anwar appeals to such continuities in his media statement when he uses phrases like ‘repeat of the 1998’. But that does not mean that Anwar and his defence team are appealing to ‘double jeopardy’. They could be appealing to the same (or very similar) motivation to make false accusation and fabricate evidence in two different alleged cases of sodomy. Rather than revealing an intention to raise an issue about ‘double jeopardy’, it seems quite obvioust to me that appealing to the 1998 case is merely to lend credence to the claim that the current accusation is false, since Anwar has been acquitted of the former allegation when his conviction was overturned in 2004.
This is only my 2nd time ever posting a comment here.
enough of this talk. Why isn’t PR organizing some mass rally in the streets to show our people power?
Guys – at times like these – all your so called intellectual talk and bombastic english is cheap. Have some gumption – aka BALLS. Go out there and rally some real support for Anuar. Don’t just type some angst filled words from the comfort of your own home. Frankly, i think anyone that just complains via words are just a bunch of cowards.
Quote: “Saya Mohd Saiful Bukhari b Azlan ingin melaporkan bahawa saya telah diliwat oleh majikan saya. Perkara ini berlaku tanpa kerelaan saya. Kejadian terakhir berlaku 26/6/08 di Unit 1151, Kondominium Desa Damansara, Jln Setia Kasih, KL….”
The accuser does not have a time where the incident was alleged to have happen. What kind of sloppy report is this? How is the accused going to prepare his defense of alibi?
We must remember that in 1998, the AG changed the date the act was alleged to have been committed twice. For the first date, the condominium where the act was alleged to have been committed was not even built yet!
Malaysians will not put up with more blatant deceit and chicanery as if we are all fools and idiots. How this investigation and trial is conducted will be the paramount because it is the BN govt . which is on trial as much as Anwar. A repeat of the circus of 1998 will make Malaysia ungovernable.
To KennyGan
‘Alleged sodomy was ‘in a Damansara condo’
Jun 29, 08 1:01pm
breaking news The sodomy allegedly committed by de facto PKR leader Anwar Ibrahim took place “in a condo in the Damansara area”, according to the police report filed by his 23-year-old aide yesterday.MORE’
Of course, I’m inclined to think that all this is fabrication. But if they can make a false accusation, it’s not difficult for them to fabricate the relevant details.
What is the problem? Saiful can have his butt investigated and see who did it for him (must be done by one of the BN politicians)
Tell that impotent Government of Badawi that the age of impunity is OVER! They will not succeed nor get away with such tactics.
DSAI – we support you!
Hmm ,,,CNN & Al Jazeera has pick this
up in their headlines, now the whole world can look at this 23yr old butt,,
Jeffrey has a question as to why Anwar has not yet released his evidence against the IGP and AG. However, he might just have obtained the evidence recently and was about to release it before this report was lodged.
Who should be the next PM ?
Express yourself at votingmalaysia.blogspot.com
The old fox must be smiling now
I think Abdullah learned from the old fox
He also learned from the old fox about ISA
They can fabricate anything. They can buy almost anybody. They must have been trying to nail their political opponents since March 8. Last bastion of hope is the judiciary, but given the Lingamgate issue, who can trust the judiciary ? Will they ask Augustine Paul to hear this case ? This is a government with a third world mentality.
Will Yong Tek Li now lodge a report that he was also so-so-ed by AI in Hong Kong earlier this year? This Sabahan jackal can also be bought over, provided the price is right
Lets stay calm and act wisely without heavy emotions. The govt may just be waiting for civilian outbreak so that they can take control of the whole situation and this may mean all the PR states.
The public is well informed nowadays and smart Mamalk the crook TDM is out of the picture this time, there will justice done.
Funny; how the real accused gets away. Not that easy for you now
i have NO faith in our Police Force…it’s pity..
This BN govt habis moda la. Same case. Looks like less people are buying into this allegations unlike 1998. BN is stupid to take this action.
and may i congratulate the police for such speedy work. if only they can do this with other police reports. :p
now who is going to carry the mattress? sure get promotion le!!! He2. will we hear Not relevant again in the court room.
The BN govt, police, judiciary and the AG have very little credibility in the eyes of many Malaysians and either way they are going to get whacked by this. Anwar will come out of this winning.
There is a cobra and a BN politician, which one do you eliminate first?
Bodowi said that it is common for an accused to
claim he is innocent.
Why did he gave a different answer when asked on RPK’s SD regarding Rosmah? Why did he said that they are innocent & NOT it is common for them to claim innocent?
Exciting time again, boys and girls.
Soon, our mass media and courts will again be filled with terms and lucid diagrams that elucidate various human sexual practices (sodomy, anal intercourse, anal sex, buggery, oral sex, blow job, fellatio, cunninglingus, etc.) – kind of revision to those who heard and read about them 10 years ago. Explicit sex education, another great project on offer to the world by the BN government.
Interesting to know that sodomy is such a powerful political weapon in Malaysia.
Wonder if Saiful Bukhari’s damaged @sshole will be submitted as state evidence. Will Saiful Bukhari’s rectum be examined to see if its inner surface has markings (ridges and grooves) that fit the ridges and grooves of the accused person’s dick? (Just like in forensic ballistics: the ridges and grooves engraved on the surface of a fired bullet case match those in a gun barrel from which the bullet exited.)
Will this be the watershed in Saiful Bukhari’s young life? Will he eventually become a pilot (his dream job) or CEO of a GLC?
Strange things happen and wild dreams fulfilled in Malaysia.
First of all I would like to tell everyone that I’m not a DSAI supporter but I really pity this poor guy. I think the chances he going to be jailed is very high as Malaysia BN government do have a special law to deal with Opposition. I just wondering is anyone out there believe DSAI really did it. Not for me because he is getting so much suport and the odd is all on his hand. DO you think he will do such a think even if he is really gay to jeopardize his chance to become a Prime Minister. NO WAY
Why such abnormal and weird incident could occur just in seconds? If to say that the aide of AI is compelled to lodge the complaint under duress, why no one could validate to know the fact?
It may somehow true???
KJ is the most suspicious mastermind behind this conspiracy. He has been attacking Anwar in Parliament day in, day out. The Sleepyhead is too dumb for this.
I believe this is the last resort to kill Anwar’s political career.
How come a 23 yo young man cannot fight off, a 60 yo man, if he do not wish to be sodomized by the 60 yo ? or was the 23 yo under influence of some drug or drunk? Strange?
http://riwayathayat.blogspot.com/2008/02/selamat-maju-jaya-saiful.html
“Untuk pengetahuan semua, keputusan peperiksaan saya amat teruk semasa saya berada didalam MPP. Sem 1 06/07 GPA 1.0, Sem 2 GPA 0.8 dan CGPA saya sekarang 1.69.
Secara logiknya, untuk saya menaikkan CGPA saya dan menamatkan pengajian ia akan memakan masa selama 5 semester = 2 1/2 tahun lagi. Jadi bagi saya, ia tidak berbaloi.
Semenjak dari kecil cita-cita saya bukan seperti yang saudara-saudari sangkakan iaitu menjadi seorang ahli Politik. Tetapi cita-cita saya adalah untuk menjadi seorang PILOT(Juruterbang). Saya mengambil bidang ini pon kerana pada ketika itu Allahyarhamah ibu saya sakit tenat, beliau sudah menyimpan wang untuk saya mencapai cita-cita saya tetapi pada ketika itu wang itu terpaksa digunakan untuk menanggung kos perubatan.
….. saya akan cuba sedaya upaya juga untuk menjadi seorang juruterbang.”
Maybe now Saiful Bukhari Azlan can not only be a pilot but the next space tourist.
Maybe now Saiful Bukhari Azlan can not only be a pilot but also the next space tourist.
Guys things are moving fast:
“Wan Azizah was visibly agitated over the allegations and death threat, the second time it has happened, to her husband.
“This is a second political conspiracy…and attempted murder,” she announced.
She then proclaimed that she had a picture that implicated the alleged assassination to a very level in government.
She whipped out her Blackberry mobile phone and showed a picture of a young man, said to be the person who lodged the sodomy report against Anwar, standing next to another young man outside what appears to be the office of a senior member of the Abdullah administration. ”
quoted from malaysian insider
now “PKR vice-president Azmin Ali says Anwar at Turkish embassy. Anwar’s wife Wan Azizah will visit him there at 4pm.”
What’s happening anyone??
Saiful Bukhari Azlan (left in blue shirt) and Khairil Annas Jusoh (right) work for Deputy Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak. http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/9361/84/
God help Malaysia & Malaysians because we have Satan & his minions running our beloved country!
How low can they go?
Take a cue from Zimbabwe!!!!!
Wouldn’t a simple DNA test prove or disprove the allegation?
Malaysiakini has been slow in reporting new information, and not many news reported. I think they need to work harder.
BN is truly desperate now that Black September is approaching.
This evil scheme to prevent Anwar from challenging BN is a cowardly act of indecency typical of 3rd world politics aka
Barisan National.
We the Rakyat will never ever believe this ‘chicken’ hatch-out 2nd-hand story.
This is also a direct challenge to the Rakyat who want a CHANGE for accountability, transparency, fairness, justice and humanity.
A desperado knows no decency, rule of law, sportmanship nor the Commandments of God.
We the Rakyat therefore must fully support Anwar to the end. There is no better alternatives to a brighter future than to stand up against this devious act of desperation.
[deleted]
Suspect: This guy Saiful Bahari is a Mole of BN. Keadilan must investigate.
“What’s happening anyone??”- Old dad
If all these allegations are true to assassinate Anwar stealthly sanctioned by the Govenment, then Malaysia is a very dangerous country to live in, including investors and expats, considering Altantuya Sharibuu as an ex-expat.
This is not a government that cares about its people.
A government that cares would have prepared its people well before hand for fuel price hike by small percentages and over a period of time. The sudden 40 increment is the strongest indication that the government is determined to stir up ‘CHAOS’ to destabilize the country so the nation can go under perpetual emergency BN rule.
They have failed in their attempts through race & religion issues, fuel hike also seemed to have failed and had drawn widespread condemnation instead up & down the country.
Now, “sodomy” is the next trick that they hope will create the “HAVOC”.
How disgusting!!!!
40%
I challenge the BN govt to call for a snap election NOW. We’ll see the results that we want!!!
Latest news on thestar website says that Anwar has gone into hiding after receiving death threats. What’s becoming of this country???
I am glad that country like Turkey dares to take the risk in taking care of Anwar. This will involve a diplomatic conflict. Now our country is unable to ensure our safety, and we have to reply on others. Anwar can be out only if BN will lose power.
the C4 connection?
the 23yr old guy has been photographed with one Khairil Annas Jusoh who work in the DPM office. A picture is worth a thousand words,, see it at http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/9361/84/
Even if a person is addicted to sodomy, and it is not an offence to commit it outside Malaysia, would persons who have the means to do it outside the country choose to risk the law inside the country? It is clear that the police report was a political ploy. But Malaysia practices rule by law, and a police report is good enough to detain whoever the police chooses to do. Is it not a police state we are in?
Ok so according to Din Merican/RPK’s blog, Saiful Bukhari planted with links to DPM office, so if its all fabrication, easy to rebut (given present climate of public opinion), why the need to lodge police report against other parties – examples IGP & AG – (knowing nothing its ‘pissing’ in the wind) over a dossier, onbly now disclosed to have existed and in his possesion but not before? What’s the rationale & strategy? Explain. — Jeffrey
Even if all right-thinking rakyat believe it’s a fabrication, it is useless because the judiciary, AG’s office, police and ACA are controlled by the executive. Don’t, for even a single moment, be naive enough to think that BN gives a hoot what the public thinks of it. A team of renowned lawyers and people marching in the streets did not prevent Anwar from being sent to jail on the previous occasion.
If Anwar has evidence to defend himself, I would suggest he keep them until the time is right to use them. This is the only way to fight against the entire corrupt establishment.
I think it would be better to be asking Najis about the even more serious C4 allegations because that one involves a DPM and a Mongolian national, and has the potential to strain ties between two countries.
Abdullah seems to know everything at the speed of light. He has answers to all your questions. You can also ask him about the 4-digit and the oil price of tomorrow. Any questions, please. The guy is now almost a prophet
[would a thief tell you that he is a thief? of course, he would deny it at all cost]
PM: Gov’t not involved in sodomy allegation
Jun 29, 08 2:31pm
Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has denied that the government is involved in the explosive allegations that de facto PKR leader Anwar Ibrahim had sodomised an aide.
According to the Malaysian Insider:-
“Anwar has got solid proof, documents, since his trial in 1998 against two important government officers, i.e. the attorney general and Inspector General of Police, had manipulated evidence against Anwar.
“He had the documents more than two weeks ago but didn’t want to disclose them in view of so many things happening now. He didn’t want to water down their importance,” he added.”
________________________________________________________
Considering the present AG and the interim IGP who both had a hand in prosecuting Anwar Ibrahim way back in 1998, I don’t see any credibilities in police investigations and the AG’s chambers other that vengeance.
We really needs United Nations intervention urgent if :-
-such trumped-up police reports is a tools to serve false indictments
that entails any political leaders fall and impending incarcerations
-Government sanction political assassinations.
I will feel safer as a Malaysian living under the care of the supervision of UN or under British rule.
For some commentators to suggest that Malaysia is no difference from Mugabe regime of Zimbabwe, you are absolutely right or almost there.
///Wouldn’t a simple DNA test prove or disprove the allegation?/// – TheWrathOfGrapes
It ought to. DNA profiling has been used in many jurisdictions for judicial determination of paternity suits or to identify and convict suspects in especially sexual crime.
Given what happened before, you can bet that they (the authorities) would not bring a charge unless armed with DNA evidence from accused’s semen. (They would be very stupid otherwise). And if they could indeed come out with positive DNA matching (presumably taken from the complainant immediately after a so called act of sodomy in what must have been a consensual situation), it would lend credence to the speculation of a very high probabilty of the complainant being “planted’ in proximate position right from the beginning to compromise and bring out a person’s momentary weakness. So if they would not bring a charge unless they are armed with DNA evidence, the moment they could bring a charge armed thus with such evidence, there’s very little defence an accused can put up except only a procedural one (rightly or wrongly) – Double Jeopardy, which as a defence stands independent of proof of inocence or guilt! Whatever you can also bet that given the mood of the country and the prevailing anti BN sentiments and the fact that all collective hopes for transformational change for the better repose in the person accused – and the fact that the ruling coalition has every reason to bring his political down fall – no amount of DNA matching no matter how scientificaly convincing and persuasive, a conviction based on guilt would not be accepted by large sections of the public who are already convinced, in their perception, that the BN is guilty as charged for 50 years of depredations and misfeasance and has no moral legitimacy to assert any moral or legal claim to truth on any matter. That is the current position. (As I said earlier in public matters, it is perception of the Truth than Truth itself that matters).
UMNO’s calendar
March-April-May-August-September
Thats why they’re peeing in their pants now, pulling the last straw. And yeah, thats why the fuel price increased. Theres no June nor July there…
WHAT NEXT? OUR BROTHER LKS CHARGED WITH SECRET MEETING WITH CHIN PENG AND TOK GURU CHARGED WITH HAVING CONTACT WITH OSAMA!
Solidify before fragility sets in
Link: http://www.kingsmary.blogspot.com/
It is expected that the corrupted bunch will go for broke. As there have been no other ways to deter Anwar, this is their last resort – to kill, kill and kill whoever gets in their way, the same old trick used on the Mongolin beauty. Let me tell you Babarian Nasional, if there is anything happened to Anwar, Malaysia will have to face the first internal war. I am serious.
I strongly feel that Malaysiakini has not been as critical to the government as before and there are signs that their reporting has been pro-government. I suspected they have been bought out by BN. Very dissapointed with Malaysiakini that they have eventually given in to money. Malaysiakini, pui!!
Just read the Malaysian Insider that there is also a death threat against Anwar and that he is seeking refuge in the Turkish Embassy. Can someone from PKR confirm on this.
The story is now on BBC and is a top story of the Sunday Times (Singapore).
Neobanchuan, Malaysiakini’s professionalism is to report news as they are – whether pro or anti govt or opposition. Regarding your remark – “Malaysiakini has not been as critical to the government as before and there are signs that their reporting has been pro-government. I suspected they have been bought out by BN. Very dissapointed with Malaysiakini that they have eventually given in to money. Malaysiakini, pui!!- I don’t share it. I don’t feel what you say is fair to the team especially Prem & Steven Gan.
Jeffrey,
It would be easier to get the AG for prosecutorial misconduct and the IGP for abuse of power should they proceed. Easier, of course, does not mean easy!
Well, Jeffrey, anything is possible. The fact is BN has got money. Knowing the fact that Malaysiakini controls a large group of readers and played an important part in the result of this GE, it is not surprised that they will use money to buy it out. Imaging if they put 10 million instant cash in front of you, and you needed this money very badly, what would you do?
The news also made one of the headlines in CNN and surprising on USA Today and I believe in many other newspaper around the world.
Some will believe Anwar is 100% guilty ..
Some will believe Anwar is 100% innocent..
Some will believe Anwar 100% deserve it…
Some will believe Anwar 100% don,t deserve it.
Yes that was 10 years ago…
Now less 10% believe Anwar is guilty…and this are the people who will even believe.. if the Police, AG and the BN Goverment SAID THAT ANWAR IS A JEW….
Badawi: ‘No, the government is not involved in the sodomy allegation.’
Ms. curious: ‘Anwar has denied sodomising his aide. What do you think?’
Badawi, ‘Well, it is usual for the culprit to deny when he/she is accused of an offence.’
Ms. curious: ‘Does it apply to your denial a few seconds ago?’
Mr. observer: I think Badawi may reply as follows: ‘Well, I said “it is usual”, but my denial is an exception rather than rule.’
That’s why we need justice in this country.
Now all the Rakyat finally see the true face of Anwar. First allegation people will think it is being made up but a second allegation surely reaffirm that it is not a made-up.
Yes anything is possible but I think we should try not to speculate based on our feelings but to interpret whatever based on incontrovertible facts as they unfold (to be fair to others).
To Undergrad2, whichever, whether double jeopardy or if that fails prosecutoral misconduct, its oK as long as it is good for defence. Public mood is such that whatever evidence tendered, it will not be easily believed (nationally or internationally) knowing the low mark or point of the BN’s credibility. So that means there will no charge be preferred – unless with convincing DNA matching evidence – and even that, many won’t believe – but because the courts may believe, then the only defence left, in pre-emption, is double jeopardy. If that could be established (whether one calls it by that name ‘double jeopardy’ using the ‘same transaction test’ or prosecutorial misconduct), it is still procedurally a complete defence that is independent of and separate defence from the question of innocence or guilt or proof of either, making that question irrelevant. Think about this implication and wait for more developments as they unfold. However as you said – correctly – neither is easy, and “easier for one, of course, does not mean that easy!”.
I agree with Jeffrey that Malaysiakini has been very fair in reporting the news and the accusation that it is being bought out is totally ridiculous. I believe Malaysiakini will continue to paly its role and exercise its professionalism in news reporting.
Pace Kasim Amat, the second allegation resurfacing under dubious circumstances (look at the pictures of the accuser posing with various BN leaders) after the first legally OVERTURNED and in many respects clearly concocted allegation reaffirms the likelihood of fabrication.
Anwar should just go to the US and lecture at Georgetown University. Wait till we overturn this corrupt regime and reinstate the independence of the ACA, Judiciary and AG’s Chambers.
With these institutions in cahoots with UMNO, there is zero possibility of a fair hearing.
Anwar had a black eye the last time he was at Sg Buloh. No need to ponder what could happen this time as the stakes are significantly higher now.
But will he be allowed to leave the country?
Kasim Amat:
Are we having our Ali-Baba business for differentiating bumi vs non-bumi fuel ?
And where are our APs ?
Anwar is now under the protection of the Turkish Embassy. He should be allowed to fly out under diplomatic protection. With the world’s news agencies watching our every step, I doubt the corrupt regime would do a Benigno Aquino.
Any charge unsupported by convincing DNA profiling and matching will not stand. It suggests to everyone here and overseas that it is a complete fabrication a case of political persecution after political tsunamy using tried and unimaginative methods. This suggests that the authorities will not proceed with a charge unless it is supported by convincing DNA profiling and matching. Now the question remains : what if such a charge is actually preferred meaning that there is such convincing DNA profiling and matching? The question is how was that specimen obtained if it were extracted from semen? That too will be consistent with and not neccesarily contradictory to the many suggestions here of implantation of an agent provocateur and his links.
Wan Azizah said that Saiful was a volunteer who joined to help the party during the general election period three months ago. She added that little was known of him and that no background check was done on him as he was just a volunteer. He later become a special assistant to Anwar. It is a mystery why Anwar chose this sort of person of which little was known and no back ground check made as his political aide. That’s another part of the question.
All I can say is that it is hard to say whether as a society we’’re maturing or as a matter of fact regressing. We seem obsessed with sex & sex scandals. We cannot accept it is a natural thing, like leaves to trees. It will be eons before we could think that what politicians do between the sheets, whether with heterosexual or same sex partner, married or not married, is not the public’s business or has nothing to do with his performance or capability as a leader discharging his duties in good faith to people over whom he leads.
When some one or persons in concert cause great and irreparable public detriment to extent of RM 4.6 billion in PKFTZ bailout, no police report made, no charge of any person for CBT or acting outside scope of ministerial authority, no sensation, no crime, no victim, no nothing in comparison!
DNA profiling would not be difficult as these people already have Anwar’s DNA from the previous case. Can they find a mattress ? Can they fabricate the stains ? Can they find a “compliant” chemist ? Can they “select” the judge ? I think the public knows the answer to all these questions.
Guys,
This is not the time to take a philosophical approach to events now unfolding, punctuated with cynicism and a perverted sense of political humor.
I think Godfather has a point here.
By the way, I’m not an Anwar fan.
But everything seems to clearly indicate that all these are fabrications.
or should I have said “convoluted”?
What perverted sense of Humour ? You think that there is no possibility of Augustine Paul presiding over the new trial ?
Lee Wang Yen, If Rakyat are saying that they have lost confidence in the judiciary system in Malaysia, then how can you say the second sodomy allegation has been “correctly” overturned?
Anwar is now internationalising his personal matter. He is hoping that other countries will stand on his side so I think this is simply part of his political game.
I’ll take what I said back. It is natural to resort to comic relief when all else fail.
Kasim Amat:
Mana kita punya AP ? After all your nauseous support for the Sleepy Head, you must be entitled to APs. Kita buat Ali-Baba bisnes ?
Nobody has been charged yet and already you guys are speculating about evidence and miscarriage of justice.
“You think that there is no possibility of Augustine Paul presiding over the new trial ?” Godfather
It is possible that they may have cloned a few.
Well, if the judiciary is in general unreliable during the relevant period, then neither the acquittal in 2004 nor the conviction earlier in 1998(?) are reliable.
In that case the dubious circumstances involved in both allegations (in 1998 they were irregularities like an alleged victim changing the story many times, the prosecution changing the dates of offence many times, and the reference to a condo which had not been built at the time of the alleged offence) cast aspersions to the truths of both allegations.
“Anwar is now internationalising his personal matter.” Kasim Amat
It is not a personal matter that Anwar is internationalizing but a national matter!
Note that if neither the acquital in 2004 nor the conviction earlier in 1998(?) are reliable, there is no reason to think that the first allegation in 1998 is true.
The assumption of the unreliability of both the acquital in 2004 and the conviction in 1998 is NOT a case of self-referential defeat. If the original conviction in 1998 is unreliable, an unreliable acquital a few years later does not cast aspersions (i.e. doubt) on Anwar’s innocence, because the subsequent acquital (whether reliable or not) becomes unnecessary once the original conviction is found to be unreliable.
“In that case the dubious circumstances involved in both allegations (in 1998 they were irregularities like an alleged victim changing the story many times, the prosecution changing the dates of offence many times, and the reference to a condo which had not been built at the time of the alleged offence) cast aspersions to the truths of both allegations.” Lee
An understatement.
Irregularities and inconsistencies in the evidence cast doubts on the prosecution’s case but the verdict is an open indictment of the very same legal system that sentenced him to eight years jail.
I believe all this fabrication is done by the UMNOs
I AM suspicious of the TIMING of this new report and happening…
WHY now… when the DPM wife issue is hot… when the Sept is closing ….
“The assumption of the unreliability of both the acquital in 2004 and the conviction in 1998 is NOT a case of self-referential defeat. If the original conviction in 1998 is unreliable, an unreliable acquital a few years later does not cast aspersions (i.e. doubt) on Anwar’s innocence, because the subsequent acquital (whether reliable or not) becomes unnecessary once the original conviction is found to be unreliable.” Lee
Can you put it in a less philosophical language so that ordinary mortals could understand – please?
Godfather,
Where’s KJ’s alter ego? Busy planning the next move??
Kasim Amat Says:
Today at 17: 44.25 (1 hour ago)
“Now all the Rakyat finally see the true face of Anwar. First allegation people will think it is being made up but a second allegation surely reaffirm that it is not a made-up.”
So the fact that you stole earlier, you must have stolen this time?? The fact that you have been convicted of the murder of X, that makes you likely to have murdered Y?
Yep, ppl like me sekolah attap ta’faham langsung. Susah, you guys just hentam saja.
If previous convictions are not relevant, how could previous allegations especially when proven false be??
OK, got it. Let it be reminded this is not a loyar website, agree? :D
I would like to ask Amat Kassim a question:
If A believes that system J is generally reliable (note: generally reliable does not mean absolute infallibility. It means reliability in, say, 70-90% of the time).
System J examines case S in 1998 and yields a result g.
System J reexamines case S in 2004 and yields a result ~g.
Given that A believes that J is generally reliable, is it rational for A to believe g?
If A answers yes, then he is saying that J is reliable in 1998 but unreliable in 2004. That is consistent with his belief that J is generally (not infallibly) reliable. However, A clearly assumes that a generally reliable system can fail at times (i.e. it fails in an instance in 2004). Without assuming this, he would have to accept that the ~g result in 2004 is reliable and thus rationally defeating his answer that it is rational for A to believe g.
Now the punchline is this: If A has to assume that a generally reliable system can fail at times, why can’t someone think that a generally unreliable system can be reliable at times?
Therefore, those who believe that the judiciary is generally unreliable between 1998 and 2004 don’t have a problem at all with claiming that Anwar is probably innocent. They can either say that
(1) even if both the conviction in 1998 and acquital in 2004 are unreliable, this still shows that Anwar is innocent (assuming the principle of English law: innocent until proven guilty) (I have elaborated this point in my previous comment.)
OR
(2) As I say in this post, a generally unreliable system can sometimes yield reliable result (e.g. the 2004 acquital).
timing, timing, timing…
financial crisis/bailout… liwat round 1…. anwar 1st time
yong teck lee no confidence motion…. ACA probe
sept16 2008 plan……. liwat round 2…. anwar 2nd time!!!
coincidence? hahahaha!
In response to undergrad2’s request, Let me try to rephrase one of my previous comments.
Amat Kasim implies that those who believe that the Malaysian Judiciary (let’s call it J) is unreliable cannot rationally believe that Anwar is innocent for being acquitted in 2004.
His reasoning may be analysed as follows:
You PR supporters believe that J is unreliable
J acquitted Anwar in 2004
Therefore, PR supporters who believe that J is unreliable cannot rationally believe that Anwar is innocent.
This reasoning is only correct if one assumes that the only grounds for believing Anwar’s innocence are the acquital in 2004.
But this assumption is false, unless Amat Kasim were to adopt the principle of Dutch law (i.e. one is guilty until proven innocent). In fact, according to the fundamental principle of English law (i.e. one is innocent until proven guilty), we are rational to believe that Anwar is innocent until there is reasonable evidence (i.e. at the very least, evidence without the kind of irregularities and inconsistencies involved in the 1998 conviction) to prove that Anwar is guilty. But those who believe that J is unreliable in 1998 is rational to believe that the conviction in 1998 is unreliable, and therefore rational to believe that Anwar is innocent.
As I predicted, assissanation will come……….
As I predicted, assissanation will come……….he should find a second man to help to diversify his risk as if in the event of non existence, tat person should be able to help and stablised pakatan rakyat. More importantly, establish 2 party system in a country in future.
If the sodomy accusation against Anwar turns out to be a BN fabrication to block his political resurgence, Anwar will receive even bigger support (at least sympathy support) from the people, and BN’s reputation will be badly damaged as people then know BN is no longer a party which adheres to moral principles.
Fellow Malaysians and members of the international community, let it be clear that this is another despicable and condemnable attempt by UMNO and its cronies in the police force and judiciary to incarcerate Anwar Ibrahim by fabricating another sodomy charge against him. May Allah be with him and all peace-loving and right-minded Malaysians. We will not allow this to happen to Anwar again. We will use all powers within our means to prevent any injustice against him, and subsequently to bring the real culprits and criminals, who have done immeasurable damage to Malaysia, to justice! Allah selamatkan Malaysia!
BN’s reputation will be badly damaged as people then know BN is no longer a party which adheres to moral principles… when was the last time BN adheres to moral principles?????
Jong Says:
Today at 19: 04.55 (41 minutes ago)
“OK, got it. Let it be reminded this is not a loyar website, agree?”
Jeffrey is the only QC (or Queen’s Counselor) on this political blog. You’re not about to deny his constitutional right to free speech, are you – political blog or no political blog?
On subject of what the Federal Court on September 2, 2004, really decided – well, it decided by a majority decision of 2:1 to acquit Anwar on the charge of sodomy on Azizan as stated on the charge.
For the record, he was acquitted on technical grounds that it was unsafe to convict him mainly on the uncorroborated evidence of the Azizan of the alleged crime done to HIM only.
The Federal Court did not exonerate him entirely in other respects
* Read link :
http://bigdogdotcom.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-rebuttal-on-anwar-ibrahim/
under heading 2. The Offence of Homosexual Activities
I believe the quotes are authentic extracted from Federal Court Judgment. It was also highlighted in newspapers.
Lee,
Are you the same Lee Wang Yen?
“Wang-Yen Lee
College: St Edmund’s
Year: PhD 3
Supervisor: Tim Lewens
Thesis Title: Simplicity and Abductive Arguments for Scientific Realism
Research Interests: Philosophy of science (confirmation theory/inductive logic, scientific realism, explanation, Popper and Kuhn); epistemology (theories of justification and knowledge); philosophy of religion (natural theology, religious epistemology); science and religion.”
Someone who was called the “Cambridge brat” (by the smart limkamput who has since disappeared, too embarrassed to appear in the face of the recent allegations against him masquerading as a Chinese when he is in fact a Malay, a retired government servant with a PPN title to his name) showing nothing more than “hollow sophistication”??
Of course, I don’t believe limkamput. But, respectfully, I think you’re a little out of your turf here when you write about law. Sad to say but it is true there is nothing logical about law.
I thought Dr. M admitted doing Anwar wrong by charging him with sodomy? So, is Anwar so desperate as to commit sodomy again? It is very clear that all these are “frame ups” and before long, we can see policemen carrying mattresses to court again and perhaps they may even put Augustine Paul on the bench again to hear Anwar’s charges!
BN and AAB are so desperate to get rid of Anwar that they have to resort to such “dirty tricks”! Everything is so clear!!!!!
[deleted]
“For the record, he was acquitted on technical grounds that it was unsafe to convict him mainly on the uncorroborated evidence of the Azizan of the alleged crime done to HIM only. The Federal Court did not exonerate him entirely in other respects” Jeffrey QC
There is this popular misconception that when an accused charged and tried and acquitted, he or she is innocent. An accused does not have to prove himself or herself innocent, just not guilty.
Lee may want to give his input on this issue.
The moral of the story- “Don’t hold BN Dog’s leash too tight, i will start to bite the leash holder”. These BN DOG’s are with rabies.. acute hydropho.
RPK and DSAI made the BN Morrons straining at the leash too much. the inept IGP and AG tried their luck to hold RPK and end up having their “Bad Ass” reputation jeopardized by DSAI’s report. So it better to go for DSAI first before handling the petite whistle blower RPK.
Do there Morrons really think the Rakyat is STUPID. They will learn soon not to play around with Rakyat.. they will pay the heavy price… and those in so called GOVERMENT.. count your days.
what we Rakyat can do now to help DSAI or Pakatan Rakyat?
Now it seems like the gov is above the law can do what they want. It is really sad to even imagine the situation and mentality of Malaysia being just like Zimbabwe. Is there a way where the Rakyat can seek for help from the United Nation for justice?
# Lee Wang Yen Says:
Today at 18: 02.33 (2 hours ago)
But will he be allowed to leave the country?
____________________________________________________
Seeking asylum in any foreign embassies gives one total immunity against any sorts of invasion, siege within the jurisdiction of the parameter of the embassy.
As long as you leave the parameter of any embassy, in this case, the embassy of Turkey, the Malaysian Government has every rights to haul Anwar up if he is wanted by the Malaysian authorities.
He will have to play the “Hindraf” card anew, that is to prove that his claims of sodomy in 1998 was trumped-up allegedly by the AG Gani Patail and the investigating officer, now IGP, Musa Hassan
for the international communities to exert substantial amount of pressure on the BN Government.
That might be his chance and of course with the upheaval of many Malaysians.
If he is on foreign embassy grounds, then he is on foreign soil. Malaysian government has no jurisdiction.
It looks like Patail will be busy again to prepare the case againts DSAI. Come to think of it he does not win any high profile case except DSAI. The ‘Hacks’ judge will be called up for duty again since he has got the experience. So all the actors and actress will be called for casting and I hope they won’t forget about the matress.
This means “Goodbye, so long, UMNO!”
Before M’sia end-up like Zimbabwe, to the point of no-return, where the country is permanently ruin (with inflation at 10,000%!!)
the People must rise & demand 3 changes without compromise,
1) UMNO be disbanded & all its top leaders be sent to Kamunting
coz they are a threat to the security of the common people
2) The Judiciary(from Mahathir-era) be thrown in jail for manipulating the law for their own purpose
3) PDRM is the worst of all should be disolved & all it’s top-ranking be sacked because peoeple who follow orders without thinking & rule-of-law are worst than the criminals who they are supposed to catch…………….. & one more who more qualified than Anwar as PM
What is unfolding here in Malaysia is frightening and it is indicating the country is picking up speed towards becoming like Mugabe’s Zimbabwe ..a failed state!
There are more important and urgent cases that needed sorting out and in order to divert attention they put up this new trumped up sodomy charge against Anwar and if he is arrested I should think Malaysians should take to the streets to force a regime change.Waiting for September (according to Anwar claim of MP’s desertion for opposition party) or the next election might be too long.
Yes, what can we do for Anwar?
It is high time Malaysians clamour for sodomy to be decriminalised. People should be allowed to pleasure their orifices and organs in whatever way they so please as long as it is consenting. The state has no role to play in our bedrooms.
To date, this law has served no purpose other than to frame political opponents. Clearly it does not appear to be a deterent, as even after fall from high office, a black-eye, 6 years of prison life and public humiliation Anwar is alleged to be at it again.
If Saiful is alleging that Anwar raped him, then obviously the anal intercourse was not consensual. But what is mind boggling is that he claims he was sodomised a number of times. Why did he allow himself to be raped so many times? It just does not add up. If it was consensual then why did he make a police report?
I think the clue lies in the numerous photo-opportunites this Uniten drop out had with UMNO bigwigs including Azlina, Shahrir, and Najib’s aide taken at the deputy PM’s office.
I wouldn’t stake my life to proclaim that the man is innocent. Nor would I judge him guilty. But let’s just not forget his chamelon-like character and his inclination for high drama. Whether the allegation is true or not, one cannot rule out the possibility that he may be making use of the situation as a way out to save his own face just in case the “prediction” that he made concerning the collapse of the govrenment does not materialise. If his prediction fails, he can now say, “They played dirty. They threatened my life. If not …”
LIKE FATHER LIKE SON? SAME PLAY OF 1969?
AAB WILL BE A ‘CEREMONIAL HEAD’ FOR NEXT 2 YEARS AND NR WILL BE THE CHAIRMAN. AAB WILL BE POWERLESS AND NOT LIKELY BE CONTESTING IN DECEMBER AS THE ‘NEW HEAD’ ENSURE
ALL SUCH ‘POWER TRANSFER ASAP.
MAYBE, MM SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SAME ADVICE TO NR.
DESPERATE PEOPLE WILL DO ANYTHING TO STAYS IN POWER.
LET THE PEOPLE STANDS FIRM AND BEHIND ANWAR IBRAHIM AS WE DO NOT HAVE ANY FAITH AND TRUST ON THE UMNO-BN PARTNERSHIP ANYMORE.
LONG LIVE MALAYSIANS AND LONG LIVE ANWAR IBRAHIM.
DL
that saiful bahari wears lipstick n high heel ah?
Truth shall prevail. Let’s pray for the country. It is in such a mess. Just back from Singapore, sad to read a book on forthcoming Asian economy crisis. Predict Malaysia ‘a boleh land would be a bodoh land’! What a sad comment.
Mr Anwar told the BBC’s Newshour programme he was “seeking personal protection because of my fear of my personal safety in case they arrest [me], and I don’t want to repeat the assault and near death under custody of the… Malaysian police”.
Can a small size 60 yo man sodomize a big size 23 yo man, must use pistol or what? No logic lah?I no believe ?
I think the BN would not do this kind of thing in the current situation. I think Anwar has more to gain than BN in this current situation. Maybe this is one of the steps Anwar masterminded it to overthrow the gov on the 16th sept. I would prefer if he waits for the next GE if he wants to form a new gov.
The umno goons will do whatever it takes to stay in power . There are just too much as stake for them to loose grip of power. I guess all Malaysians are being ‘sodomised’ by UMNO once again !!! There is just no hope stay in BN. BN is no longer relevant after the 8th March. We love Malaysia but we hate the BN government !!!
I wonder what type of physical inspection and evidence they have in this case. First, they have to get an independent physician to inspect his behind and that evidence that DSAI actually visit that place. Or is this more his-his words. It will be interesting. Maybe, DSAI need to get a foreign expert to ceck that soo to be rich boy behind and see if he was ever sodomised. If he was it might confirm he is probably gay because you and I know DSAI didn’t do that. … The saga begins but let us not forget the foreigner that was killed by C4…. because this is an attempt to bring te eat of that one.
Miss Logic of Cambridge who usually spoke in strange tongue wrote: “But everything seems to clearly indicate that all these are fabrications.” While there is no “R implies S” or “~S” or whatever here this time, only plain English this time, I wonder what “everything” points logically to “clearly indicate” the “fabrications”. Just for the record, I am neither fan nor foe of Anwar, but one who is in general just wary of smooth speaking politician.
What are thos froggies waiting for? Haven’t they seen enough and what those umno despots are capable of? The should all do the quick jump NOW and Pakatan Rakyat can just take over the federal government and arrest those “trouble-makers”.
Comments in this and other blogs have been almost unanimous in condeming this second alleged ‘sodomy’ case as a deperate attempt to thwart Anwar’s end-game moves. It is easy even for fence-sitters to see this as such and what more for staunch Anwar supporters and Malaysians who are eagerly anticipating the much touted changes to the political scene.
If this is indeed a fabrication, it may not necessarily be a daft move, for whoever planned and set it off would know very well how preposterous it would seem seem and calculated on the magnitude of pubic protest leading on to unrest. And this can be very worrying indeed. This could be a bait for opportunities to bring in the clamp and sledge-hammer…..
…public protest…that’s what I meant….you know that!!
What in Hell is going on! A leader in our community whose wife and daughter are MPs in our Parliament have to hide in a foreign embassy fearing for his life. What then, ordinary people like us. This is Malaysia and not Zimbabwe but from DSAI actions it would seems like nobody is safe anymore and law of the jungle is about to begin.
I AM umNO-BN SUPPORTER. I BELIEVE THAT umNO-BN OR Kurang aJar DIDNT DO IT. OUR MALAYSIAN POLICE ARE VERY HONEST AND VERY PROFESSIONAL. I HOPE umNO-BN CAN RULE MALAYSIA FOREVER. I WILL LIVE, SUFFER AND DIE FOR umNO-BN.
WTF…..umNO-BN.
I DONT TRUST YOU ANYMORE……..WTF.
For once, I have seen a very sane and objective discussion on the subject matter. I personally believe this is a fabricated police report.
On the question of DNA proof, wouldn’t it be very easy to get a sample of AI’s tissue – from dry skin flakes on a hotel pillow? hair sample from his haircut? etc? DNA can be extracted from these samples and then be falsely medically reported as having been obtained from his aide’s annnus?
Will appreciate comments on the likelihood of this possibility. Thanks.
Yeah, this is Malaysia to the world today – Malaysians have nothing better to do but sodomise each other and when they don’t like each other, they just use C4 since it’s so ‘easily available’.
And if you don’t want your spouse to know you have been and out of the country, just go to the immigration and have your records erased. Simple, this is bolehland? Our neighbours are all choking in laughter, seeing how silly Malaysians have become!
REFORMASI !!! reformasi again … of course this time. from BN to PR. Let’s start the war drum … haha
What is happening and why BN UMNO so cheap. Mongolia case not arrested and come to PR Police and AG ready to arrest.I think the nation should support DSAI
Hamidah Osman “Pukul India Dulu” Indian still never learn their lesson of supporting the BN UMNO. Hamidah Osman should charged for creating racial issue
Jong,
If you think ‘sodomy’, ‘C4’ and delete records are bad enough, there are ‘Lupa-lah ex-PM, suap ala correct-correct, ‘bocor’ MP, beruk and goblog and ‘go-starn’ vips and press-free parliament farce to be added to the laughing stock for our neighbours.
It’s sad and frustrated to see what is going in Malaysia. BN has no other Menu to cook except the same old “Sotong Mee”. Do you think a 60 year old man would want to commit such a sin knowing that he is so charge up to get PR to take over? He will be insane to commit it, after all those years spending in prison, is that not enough for him?
BTW, undergrad I think you must be missing limkamput! I guess he is must be busy and out and not fair to attack him when he is not around. If you have been reading his blog, I don’t think he is a Malay.
After hearing what the CID DIRECTOR said on the 8PM news on 8TV.The events leading to the police report does not add up..It clearly shows ANWAR is being frame…
pgsillai,
It matters not if anybody is – or is not. But it matters to some readers if somebody thinks he could hoodwink them into believing what he is not, acting as an agent provocateur bashing the Chinese using an obscene handle like ‘konek’ and then bash the Malays. Fanning racial hatred among readers is not acceptable – at least to me.
Be that as it may, there are more important issues to discuss today than the lack of respect for civil behavior in a political blog. We have a popular and charismatic opposition leader forced to take refuge in the security of a foreign embassy – something unprecedented.. Don’t you think?
I believe plenty of people have seen the following video. But then again, plenty more may have not. So to those who have not, listen for yourself what TDM admitted about the DSAI case 10 years ago, and judge for yourself.
Search google for the following (no quotes needed)
mahathir admits abuse youtube
or just paste this search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mahathir+admits+abuse+youtube&meta=
Every right thinking person knows that the sordid allegation against DSAI cannot be true. On the cusp of obtaining political power, no sane person would risk everything by committing such an act.
The police appears to be building a flimsy case against DSAI as a prelude to arresting him.
Once in custody, all hopes for a transition of power to a better government are gone.
DSAI has foiled their evil plans by taking refuge in the Turkish embassy. Malaysians must stand up and condemn this despicable government for trying to sodomize the rakyat a second time.
forget about sex in the city, we have a best seller here!!! Sex in PutraJaya !!!!
It is obvious that Anwar will be PM…..many people in position of power, trust and influence, present and past, are very worried and insecured!
Some people seem overkeen to raise AI to the status of a hero or even a martyr.
Take a look at the article by the STAR at the link below:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/30/nation/21695182&sec=nation
There are some questions raised and not answered. How did AI so quickly worked out the “connection” between the aide and DPM, whereas he previously did not? Where did the pictures come from so quickly? In some reports, the aide was described as “special aide” to AI. Could a volunteer be a “special aide” without being screened? If the death threat was received 4 weeks ago, why nothing was done about it then?
If I were the wife of a man who has received death threat and is in so deep a trouble that he has to take refuge in an embassy, I wouldn’t be smiling so sweetly. If I did not know what the photo in the link was all about, I would have thought it was a mobile phone advertisement.
fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
half baked american say: “Our Armed Forces have been subservient to civilian authority for far too long and should see their role more as keepers of that moral authority which BN has recently lost – the legitimacy and the moral authority to rule in a democracy dedicated to freedom, justice and the rule of law. The Malay Rulers must be involved in the process. Otherwise it is déjà vu all over again!”
This half-baked American who is enjoying the best of both worlds must be using his toe as his head to call for army or even the royalty to intervene in the present impasse in the civilian government. Those are not democratic institutions, and to call for their involvement is most short-sighted. They can not be expected to exercise moral authority or to restore democracy no matter how protracted and helpless the country is now facing. Let the people make their stand clear and let the international community exert pressure. But no army, police and royalty please.
For a wannabe lawyer to write in this manner really disappoints me to the core. It shows no clarity in thought and immaturity in outlook – a typical fellow who has no qualm of trading short term expediency for long term misery. Just look around you in countries where the army play a prominent and dominant role. Yes, they have always come in with moral authority and restoring peace as their primary reasons. But we all know this would be the beginning of endless coup, abuse and dictatorship.
Hello American Ah beng, i am telling you for the last time i dont know what you are talking about. This Konek is NOT me. In fact i have even deleted his posting in my blog intending to cause trouble for me. I suspected it was you. You are well-known for playing double personality. I know and you know, so don’t be a hypocrite.
Here we go….
As long as the truth is out, we are willing to pay for any price.
Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democratic rights & freedoms
Shiok Guy
By the way guys..notice what Dr M said “Let the GOVERNMENT decides on the allegations”.
Doesn’t this sound funny? :) Is it the GOVERNMENT to decide or the Police and the Judiciary?
Doesn’t Mahathir just implied that the GOVERNMENT controls the Police and the Judiciary?
Or is he trying to tell us that this is the GOVERNMENT’s act?
“In fact i have even deleted his posting in my blog intending to cause trouble for me. I suspected it was you” limkamput
Like I said “Why should anybody want to visit the blog of a nincompoop”? It is your narcissistic personality getting the better of you like always!
Then to insist you’re being shadowed by someone is a sign of paranoia. When combined it adds to “paranoid schizophrenia”. Have we not gone through this before??
But then what can anybody expect from an old retired government servant with a cheap title to his name given for long service, the type of title given to drivers who have driven enough miles through the years – and one who has serious with issues about his ethnicity??
“Hello American Ah beng, i am telling you..” limkamput
You don’t seem to have enough of the racial slurs. What has happened to “Hey tambi”?
pgsillai,
Whoever wrote “There is no need to discuss long and wide” is thinking in Malay and writing in English. You see nincompoop is one of the many Malays who think in Malay and write in English.
Don’t you think so??
There is no such expression in English like “no need to discuss long and wide”. It is direct and literal translation of Malay of ‘tak payah cakap panjang dan lebar”.
He is caught flat footed here as always!
Let the trial begin.. Then and only then the truth will be told.Only then the whole world will know if the trial is held in a court of law or a kangaroo court.As the whole world know that the last sodomy trial of ANWAR was held in a kangaroo court.
Yeah, the trial may begin and the kangaroos are in the kagaroo court. But where is the defendant?
Remember the poem: Who killed Cock Robin?
Haiya, it doesn’t matter he is Chinese or Malay la. We are all Malaysians. Our issue here is how long Anwar is going to seek sanctuary in Turkish Embassy and when this is going to end?
Today a lot people here is very busy selling of their stocks n funds.
Food price hike and stocks going down. Very depressing!
SPREAD THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq0cQuBwAyg
To know the truth behind the allegation in 1998 and you know what DSAI meant as a replay from the culprit (brainless one indeed, cant they think of other ways if want to play dirty?)
My writing on this issue:
Drama Minggu Ini : Sodomy (Again ?)
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 08: 44.52 (5 hours ago)
Some people seem overkeen to raise AI to the status of a hero or even a martyr.
[snip]
If I were the wife of a man who has received death threat and is in so deep a trouble that he has to take refuge in an embassy, I wouldn’t be smiling so sweetly. If I did not know what the photo in the link was all about, I would have thought it was a mobile phone advertisement.
————–
Why are you jumping to conclusion that quickly? I thought you were telling others not to jump to conclusion.
Someone who seems to have English comprehension problem wrote: “Why are you jumping to conclusion that quickly? I thought you were telling others not to jump to conclusion.”
The passage where the English comprehension problem arose is: “If I were the wife of a man who has received death threat and is in so deep a trouble that he has to take refuge in an embassy, I wouldn’t be smiling so sweetly. If I did not know what the photo in the link was all about, I would have thought it was a mobile phone advertisement.”
If you read the statement I made carefully, it’s a question-no conclusion was made. Anyway, I did not tell others not to jump to conclusion, but only said (somewhere else before) that “I (myself) wouldn’t be too quick to jump to any conclusion here…” Others can jump to whatever conclusion they like in this matter, but I would not.
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 14: 43.11 (15 minutes ago)
Someone who seems to have English comprehension problem wrote: “Why are you jumping to conclusion that quickly? I thought you were telling others not to jump to conclusion.”
The passage where the English comprehension problem arose is: “If I were the wife of a man who has received death threat and is in so deep a trouble that he has to take refuge in an embassy, I wouldn’t be smiling so sweetly. If I did not know what the photo in the link was all about, I would have thought it was a mobile phone advertisement.”
If you read the statement I made carefully, it’s a question-no conclusion was made.
—————–
Er … I thought there is such a thing call a “?” i.e. a question mark. And we use them whenever we pose a question.
Pardon my poor command of the English language but I do not see any question being asked.
The mole..
EAsY DOES IT!
“Pardon my poor command of the English language but I do not see any question being asked.”
Yes, I did expect that someone would not be able to see the question or even questions raised. Perhaps the fact that questions can be put into the mind of people without “?” is new to someone. I wouldn’t say more on this. Any further question?
I’m 48. Dunno whether I can take the streets against BN. But I’m watching. If Msia needs me, I’m marching.
Yes, Max2811, march for your country if and when she needs you. But march not for any one man or woman (whoever he or she may be) for you would be dissapointed.
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 15: 17.40 (7 minutes ago)
[snip]
I wouldn’t say more on this. Any further question?
———————-
Yes, sir. One more question – do you want to say some more or not?
If you do not want to say more, then you should end there and not ask if I have further questions. Make up your mind and do not be such a fence sitter.
Some people just don’t get it. Some questions are not meant to be answered even though it ends with a “?”.
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 15: 35.54 (2 minutes ago)
Some people just don’t get it. Some questions are not meant to be answered even though it ends with a “?”.
————————–
Sorry, I did not know that you were asking me a rhetorical question. It just wasn’t obvious.
I kind of agree with Jeffrey on the “Double Jeopardy” argument..that DSAI cannot possibly and should not be charged a 2nd time for the same offence..
More so, by the same judiciary system which has already been proven unreliable and contradictary – conviction in 1998 and aquital in 2004, whether or not we believe that a reliable system can fall at times or that an unreliable system can turn reliable at times.
I suggest PR / DAP to work towards bringing this up for international hearing (may not be easy since this is effectively still M’sia internal affairs).
The public in general today, has lost confidence in our government, police force and judiciary. So no matter what the verdict turns out to be, whether DSAI is proven guilty by DNA, mattress, semen etc.. I do not think it is easy to get the public to accept the judgement. Lee Kuan Yew has recently pointed out that it is important for a good government to be accepted with confidence by the people, to the extent they will support the goverment even in times of unpopular policies.
So if the public will not believe in the system anyway, why the need to fabricate these charges?
Is UMNO/BN just being bloody stupid or is it more likely that DSAI has made this whole thing up to gain political mileage, or in fact, to have a backup excuse to explain in case PR taking over federal govn does not materialise?
I am just exploring all possibilities. But one thing for sure, to believe that he actually did the act at this point in time is totally crazy and illogical.
Like I said “Why should anybody want to visit the blog of a nincompoop”?
Well, don’t be too sure. The last time i checked you had, and was probably impressed. I am sorry, i have been very busy these few days – you know have to work harder earning a living unlike someone who is just leveraging on some international organisations. NO time to talk comment much here.
Now, only a nincompoop would say that without giving the visitors’ IP addresses. Only a nincompoop would allege, without more, without revealing the same IP address that they ‘share’.
You are true to the nick you gave yourself, buddy!
pgsilai Says:
Today at 12: 58.40 (6 hours ago)
Haiya, it doesn’t matter he is Chinese or Malay la.”
Like I said earlier, and like you, I feel it does not matter. But it does matter when he masquerades using one handle to bash one race and then another to bash the other race. We call that fanning the flames of racial hatred.
Don’t you agree with me, friend?
no body agrees with you anything. you are talking to yourself and accusing for nothing. Now, only a hypocrite will do that – a hypocrite who wants to enjoy the best of both worlds.
The UMNO/BN do it because they want to divert the PEOPLE attention from the ATTANTUYA case.
DSAI I believe need to be careful in appointing aides.
how come nobody can come up with the dirt page on the lesbo
C’mon nincompoop! You can do better than that! You sound like an old broken record. Give me something new to read!
I’m waiting for you to provide me with your ‘bunch of IP addresses” that you claim to have or else wallow forever the way kerbaus do in the shi*t you created that has got you bogged down.
LOL
there are many ways to get a Rm1 mil,
Some need to get a gold medal in 2008 Olympic games.
Others need to work very hard and be successful in business
A few get it by winning lottery
but, perhaps someone can also get Rm1 million by agreeing to ‘kow tim’ certain person by admitting being sodomised by him…..
So cheap one, Rm1 million? It’s more, mebbe USD 1 million. Hope he gets full-blown HIV virus and lay dying of AIDS for the next 10 years before summoned to meet his maker in the underworld
if there is any broken record here, it is you. Why are you so interested in me. I am not gay by the way. Frankly i dont know where your accusation is coming from. Yes i am a nincompoop. If only you can also set up a blog and start writing, I promise i will visit and give you constructive comments. BUt my guess is you are not capable of doing so. My blog: “limkamput-nincompoop” is good enough for many, may be quietly including you.
Maybe, maybe Saiful Bukhari Azlan is a great fan of the 2005 romantic drama film “Brokeback Mountain” and fantasised himself as Ennis Del Mar. Of course he then has to fantasise his rodeo cowboy Jack Twist as well. While working at PKR HQ, he must have gradually imprinted in his mind the cowboy character onto a real individual he worked with.
In this digital age, we have come across virtual sex. How about virtual sodomy?
wah…………… heheheh what a storyline to tell….again?? I dun know la bout this thing……….coz I seen few well known people n briliant also like to sodomy…..gile n insane but in this case……………..no comment at all….
I like seeing Anwar capturing the limelight and later who knows he might be the Prime Minister and because at that time….surely he kicks KIt SIang over the edge…..heheheheh u’re nyanyok like Tun aaa….i like Guan Eng much more…….his drama is more real than yors
I have a sneaking feeling, Saiful has managed to get more evidence than what we thought was available so far.
There have been a deafening silence and an air of confidence among the UMNO leaders. So far, they appear to be happy to let Anwar roll on uncontested. On the contrary, Anwar looks subdued, uneasy and has to pull up every serious effort to counter the allegation.
Saiful was no doubt a planted agent to entrap Anwar. He has infiltrated the system for a long 3 months since March 2008. I don’t think Saiful political masters would be satisfied with just a cursory police report made by a young 23 year old freshie implicating Anwar.
They got the PDRM and police intelligence under their wraps. They have got the latest, state-of-the-art technology surveillance equipment. They have got the money and resources. The stakes are high – their very survival and billions of $ in gravy train.
And they came up with nothing but a freshie’s words against Anwar?
I think Saiful and the manipulators managed to get more evidences; maybe voice or tape recordings or other more damaging evidences.
So far there have been an errie calm before the storm. Time will unfold the drama in full!
I sure hope Anwar will come out on top of this one.
9to5 Says: “I sure hope Anwar will come out on top of this one.”
I would also hope for the same but only if I could be first convinced that he would be good for the country. March or fight or even give your life for the good of your country but not for one man.
Nincompoop!
I have a confession to make. Out of curiosity and against my better judgment I peeked into your blog just now. There are hardly any visitors who made comments to your blog! There’s just one or two! The rest is you talking to your alter egos – how pathetic.
I’m still waiting for you to provide me with your “bunch of IP adresses” that you claim to belong to the same poster. Otherwise, like I said earlier, feel free to wallow in your own filth.
hongsichuan Says:
Yesterday at 17: 31.35
9to5 Says: “I sure hope Anwar will come out on top of this one.”
I would also hope for the same but only if I could be first convinced that he would be good for the country. March or fight or even give your life for the good of your country but not for one man.
———————–
I beg to differ. This is change. This is about changing a system that this not working. This is about fighting a system that is inefficient, corrupted and unjust. This is about fighting a system that is trying to undermind the demoncratic process.
To summise or to suggest this all to just one man is too simplistic. It is also not giving due credit to the other leaders that have fought for the ideals above.
Sure. But listen and watch carefully: who is talking that he would be the PM in the new government (if there is one) even though he is not yet elected by the people. Beware, lest you are used to advance the ambition of one man. Change a system that is not working, if you can, but if you are not careful you may end up with the same or worst still an even worse one.
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 08: 40.32 (28 minutes ago)
Sure. But listen and watch carefully: who is talking that he would be the PM in the new government (if there is one) even though he is not yet elected by the people. Beware, lest you are used to advance the ambition of one man. Change a system that is not working, if you can, but if you are not careful you may end up with the same or worst still an even worse one.
—————————
This is precisely what the BN govt wants – prey on the fear for change and maintain the status quo.
My opinion is that things are so bad that people will take their chances. And if there is a change in govt, unless there is a challenge to the leadership of the current opposition, Anwar as the de facto leader of the opposition will be the next PM.
Najib or Anwar, is this such a tough choice?
I did not say that you have to be afraid of change. But only that if you have to sacrifice yourself for change, make sure that your sacrifice is worthwhile. Who says it has to be Najib or Anwar? That’s what he would like you to believe!
CTO says: “Najib or Anwar, is this such a tough choice?”
Yes this is what the man would like you to believe. Is Malaysia so short of capable men and women that this is the only choice you have?
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 15: 13.46 (8 hours ago)
CTO says: “Najib or Anwar, is this such a tough choice?”
Yes this is what the man would like you to believe. Is Malaysia so short of capable men and women that this is the only choice you have?
—————————-
OK. So can you please list down some of the other candidates with a realistic chance of becoming the next PM in the immediate future?
Should not be a difficult task if there are as many candidates as you are suggesting or asserting.
CTO: “OK. So can you please list down some of the other candidates with a realistic chance of becoming the next PM in the immediate future?”
It is such thinking that enable people like Adolf Hitler to come into power. If the choice is between two despots, I don’t need to support any one of them. However, if the people want one of them, let them. At least, I wash my hand off the matter if any one is elected. Yes, in answering your question “Najib or Anwar, is this such a tough choice?”, the answer is, “No. Neither of them.” There is a third choice, even a fourth, a fifth choice, which is even better.
As for Malaysians who are more qualified to become PM, I can think of many. Can’t you?
hongsichuan Says:
Today at 12: 14.11 (9 hours ago)
CTO: “OK. So can you please list down some of the other candidates with a realistic chance of becoming the next PM in the immediate future?”
[snip, drivel referencing Aldolf Hitler]
As for Malaysians who are more qualified to become PM, I can think of many. Can’t you?
—————————
Er …. Sorry, I can’t. Not with a realistic chance in the immediate future.
Why don’t you enlighten me?
hear this saiful went to a hospital 4 checkup then only in KLH.the 1st hospital found nothing,is it true?????
Well, looks like we have the case of poor comprehension of English again.
I said there are “many Malaysians who are MORE QUALIFIED to become PM” and our friend cannot even think of one! Being qualified to be a PM has nothing to do with having a realistic chance. A person who is bad for the country can boost his or her chance to become a PM through smooth talk and deceit, but that does not mean he or she is more qualified than one of my good neighbours (Naim, for example) to be PM of Malaysia. If another example is needed, don’t you think that Mr Lim Kit Siang is qualified to be PM. The odd may be against him because of conventions, traditions or what nots, but his character and ability to do good for the nation should be a better determinant of his qualification to be PM rather than whether or not he had a “realistic chance”.
Well, Adolf Hitler had a realistic chance of being elected to be the Chancellor of Germany. This did not mean he was qualified to be a good leader of Germany. In fact, history showed that he was a bad leader. Should Germans vote for him just because he had a realistic chance at that time and had no better choice presented to them? As I said before in a different way, if, in an election, you were presented with Hitler and Stalin as the only two competing candidates, you don’t have to vote for any of them. The third, fourth, fifth and so on better choice is your conscience, that is, to vote for neither of them if you know that either one is not good for your country.
Enlightened?
My apologies for my poor command of the English language and also for being so painfully pedantic. :)
Your statement that there are so many so many qualified Malaysia for PM is of no value if there isn’t a realistic chance of them being elected. Likewise your statement asking others to be careful about sacrificing is merely stating the obvious and is of no value if you cannot provide an alternative. Unless of course, by providing no viable alternatives, you are taking the default position and supporting the incumbent.
Hilter and Stalin? Surely, you jest. I would not go so far to suggest that Najib is like Stalin or Hitler. There is really no need to be that dramatic. If indeed that these are the only two viable alternatives and you do not support either of them, then you are by definition supporting the incumbent. If that is your position, then please simply state it and let’s not hypothesize something that is not realistic.
Enlightened? Yes, very much so. I understand your position. You will do better if you do not try and masquerade as an intellectual fence sitter.
Oh btw, thanks for your kind comments on Uncle Kit. I am quite sure the other readers appreciate it as well.
“…if you do not try and masquerade as an intellectual fence sitter.”
Well, I don’t need to masquerade as one. But if I were indeed an a masquerader, you had wasted much of your valuable time engaging me.
I am also not even remotely suggesting that A and N were like Stalin and Hitler. (Once again, poor comprehension of English.) There was also no attempt on my part to be dramatic. There are already too many dramas going on in Malaysia during the last few weeks. My view, which you may choose to accept or reject, is that when one is confronted with two bad apples one doesn’t need to choose any one of them to eat. The bin is the suitable place for them.
Every Malaysian who is eligible for voting has only one vote to take care of. As far as I am concerned, when I don’t vote for either one, I am not for anyone, incumbent or otherwise. How others use the votes is beyond my control.
And don’t you worry about my vote! If and when there is a leader whom I believe would be good for the country, I will cast my vote wisely… Maybe I shouldn’t write too much here lest it leads to further miscomprehension.
Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan had accused Anwar Ibrahim of sodomy on eight separate occasions in a police report on June 28.
Questions: If MS was sodomised by AI against his will, why did he not report the act after he was poked the first time? Did he consult NR after his vigin penetration?
Dear Boh liao,
Some people say that politics is an art of perception. Perhaps Anwar should take the advice from Dr Asri, the Mufti of Perlis. Dr Asri suggested the using of time tested method of u;timate truth recognised by Muslim community: swear in the name of Allah.
Way back in 1998, Anwar , despite suggestion by many, refused to perform such an act. Why Anwar hesitates is beyond my comprehension. If I were to be accused of sexual act that I had not committed and resulting in my sacking ( not a minor post but that of a powerful office of Deputy Prime Minister), I would rush to perform such an act in full view of press.
So, Anwar, what are you waiting for? By the way, Dr Mahathir is not the first person to tell Malaysian he believes Anwar is homosexual. The honour belongs to Vice President of PAS, Mohd Sabu.
Before Anwar was sacked, he had field days in condemning Anwar on alleged homosexuality. Dr Mahathir was not spared either. He was challenged by Mohd Sabu to sack Anwar.
How can we help Anwar …..?
Stupid BN Government!!
If only Pakatan Rakyat have a few more seats in Parlimen. All those idiot can’t say anything anymore.