Who decided on the Cabinet gag order on any public discussion of the “Allah” controversy announced by the Deputy Prime Minister, Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin after the Cabinet meeting yesterday?
Was it with the full support of the four MCA Ministers and all other non-Muslim Cabinet Ministers – or did they express and register their protest and objection?
Malaysians had been told that the Cabinet operates on the principle of consensus – which means that if there is one Minister objecting, a decision on a new policy or measure would not be taken by the Cabinet.
If so, if the four MCA Ministers had spoken out against the gag order and asked the Cabinet to consider resolving the long-protracted “Allah” controversy by deciding that the Home Ministry should withdraw its appeal against the Lau Bee Lan judgment in the Kuala Lumpur High Court in January this year
which allowed the Catholic Church to use the word “Allah” in the Bahasa Malaysia section of its publication, Herald, the Cabinet would not have imposed a gag order as announced by Muhyiddin yesterday.
The UMNO stand on the “Allah” controversy is untenable and exposes the mockery of Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak’s 1Malaysia slogan and policy.
Even Umno veteran Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah had criticized the Umno leadership for failing to provide leadership in the “Allah” controversy, asking why Umno is “digging itself into an intolerant hardline position that has no parallel that I know of in the Muslim world” when PAS is holding onto the “more plural and moderate position”.
It is all the more pertinent that the four MCA Ministers declare whether they had acted yesterday to oppose the Cabinet gag as the MCA President Datuk Seri Dr. Chua Soi Lek had publicly said yesterday that the MCA Ministers had been instructed to speak up on the resolution of the “Allah” controversy.
As Najib was absent in yesterday’s Cabinet meeting, would the MCA Ministers re-open the subject at next week’s Cabinet meeting when the Prime Minister returns from his overseas leave?
For the life of me, I don’t understand why UMNO leaders like Muhiyiddin don’t get it they can’t win this? It does not matter what the court says at all given that PAS has gone against it. Are they delusional they can out-Islam, real or imagined, PAS? Wouldn’t it just be better to resolve this by backing out of it and take any hit internally and move on?
I understand there is a constituency they want to win and keep but seriously, do they believe those very same constituency cannot be largely won over with simple largesse and the rest can be neutralized by pointing to PAS position? The stance by people like Muhiyiddin seems just unnecessarily stubborn and short-sighted. It seems to me really emotionally unintelligent and desperate. Its really dumb leadership where they don’t recognise its better to focus on something else that is more rewarding than waste resources and effort on something that is just not worth it.
Honestly MCA and Gerakan leader shows how pathetic they are they can’t point to Muhiyiddin how wrong he is from UMNO’s point of view. Its like they have gotten dumber from associating with UMNO leaders.
Cabinet meeting? What Cabinet meeting?
They all go there to be lectured and threatened by the UMNO fellows and then say meekly:
“Setuju”. “Kami sokong”.
Meeting is then adjourned.
UMNO is now in a shiite hole unable to get out. It can’t even get its own “Interfaith Committee” going. What is the progress? What has Koh Tsu Koon to say?
It is not one person who decided on the ban but the entire umno leadership, though some may pretend to be the good guys and others the bad guys. The god of the crusaders is not to be equaled to their god
Now we believe there are indeed “trojans” in BN which are out to sabotage Najib’s administration, and to accelerate BN’s demise in the upcoming 13th GE!! ;) Good news anyway.
How could MCA & Gerakan ministers n all other non-Muslim cabinet ministers speak or object during d cabinet meeting
Their mouths were stuffed full, just like Kam Ah Lan of MIC, who easily trumped ZI in d court
Ex defacto Law Minister pun cannot lawan d High Court judge
Look, our civil service is still not bloated
D gomen plans 2 hire 5,000 more MACC officers, translated 2 additional 5K votes 2 UmnoB/BN, goodie goodie
“GOD’ ALLOWS
U-TURN
How can you expect the beggars in MCA ,MIC,Gerakan,etc etc to sound out their protest during the Cabinet meeting? All the they can do is to look down and utter meow meow at the big brothers stern eyes and then shut up or else no more gift Parliamentary seats.All these buggers have No guts and all they can ever do is to say– Yes tuan Minta maaf Ribuan maaf Kami bersetuju.
I recall this saying:
“those whom the gods seek to destroy, they first make mad”
that could be the reason for this gag order on ALLAH. It’s a bit similar to the order during Badawi’s time when the series of meeting to discuss inter-faith issues was cancelled as Muslim extremists were allowed to confront panelists.
This sh!t thing is we have stupidly allowed religion playing a pervasive but phony role in our life.
The Chinese in MCA and the Christians in PBS, etc are mere eunuchs in the UMNO court. Maybe even worse than eunuchs.
They give numbers in terms of Parliamentary seat for UMNO to rule and suppress them.
So the Christians in BN support UMNO to ban the use of Allah.
Shame on you.
Any Christian party would cut off ties with a regime than works against your interests.
Even Umno veteran Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah had criticized the Umno leadership for failing to provide leadership in the “Allah” controversy, asking why Umno is “digging itself into an intolerant hardline position that has no parallel that I know of in the Muslim world” when PAS is holding onto the “more plural and moderate position”.//
Simple, UMNO has done the maths. At least they think the majority of the Malays still prefer that allah be banned among non Muslims. Of course, knowing their mathematical skill, they could be wrong.
As far as this controversy is concerned, PAS, out of political reasons (viz-viz for the sake of its so-called ‘supporters’ from non-Muslims in DAP and PKR) had conveniently decided to play a very mild and passive stance in this.
This objection to the use of the word Allah is not aimed at looking down, discrediting or ridiculing people of other religions. It is just to put matters in the right factual perspective.
It is simply that the common name ‘GOD’ is not synonymous with the Proper Noun ‘ALLAH’ and is not an equivalent for “Allah.”
Therefore one SHOULD NEVER TRANSLATE THE NAME “ALLAH” AS “GOD.”(Yazir,Hamdi of Elmali; Koran Interpretation, [Religious Affairs Directory, Vol.1, p.24-25])
It is wrong and false to claim that Allah is a synonym for God, when the word for God in Arabic is “ILAH” which correctly derives from the root word “alaha”. There is NO root word for ALLAH.
And in reference to the Bible there is nowhere in the Bible in which God says that his name is Allah.
What Muslims tend to do is go to the Arabic translation of the Bible and then say that because “Allah” is used for “God” than it is okay to call God by this name. Thats what the Indonesians do too and thats why Indonesian Bibles read by our non-Muslim, Christian brothers and sisters in Sarawak & Sabah use the ‘Allah’ for ‘God’.
The problem with this is that God’s name isn’t God. Nor does the word Allah mean God in Arabic anyway. Allah is a personal name of the Eternal, Indivisible Creator Who does not beget nor is He begotten. To take that personal name and make it a common adjective is the equivalent of this example:
Kit Siang is man. Here we see that Kit Siang is a man. So using the Muslim propogation technique we can now say:
Man is Kit Siang. The problem with this is that if you use this method, then everytime you intend to use the word “man” you would have to say Kit Siang.
That man is 65 years old.
That KIT SIANG is 65 years old.
The above example clearly shows how incorrect it is to take a personal name and apply it to the term it describes, in the case of Kit Siang, we are describing a man.
In the case of Allah we are describing God. The Arabic language has only one word for ‘deity’ or ‘tuhan’ and that word for god or “GOD” is ILAH, not Allah.
And PAS just kept quiet. There should be no hard feelings here if they had stood up to their ‘faith’. Yes, Indonesians and some Arabs have used the name ‘loosely’. Should we also follow blindly? My respect for PAS has gone down the drain.
They open their mouths to say something, they will be dropped from the Cabinet.
That’s about it.
This matter is sensitive to East Malaysian Christians. The gag is for the sake of peace. I don’t agree with it. Neither do I agree that people should fight, burn churches over this. BUT, the facts should be presented. Are we afraid of hurting the feelings of Arab and Indonesian Christians too?…
The ulamas should do their jobs, no matter what their political affiliations are because by right, this thing has nothing to do with politics.
Wow, Melaka CM so progressive sexually – he encouraged young Muslim teenagers 2 get married if they cannot tahan having sex n promised $$$ 2 help them start a family
Melaka plans to start providing RM500 2 young couples who want 2 get married, n also considers building a special school 4 teen n pre-teen girls who become pregnant
“These people, you can’t just stop them from having sex,” Melaka CM told The Associated Press. “Muslim girls also want 2 enjoy (sex).”
Suddenly boh-liao changes the topic. There was in fact an expnation from the Melaka State govt. It is not a blanket approval. It is a case-by-case thing if it is to be implemented. The aim is to arrest the problem of unwed mothers, irresponsible ‘fathers’ and illegitimate children which is plaguing the Malays. To me this is a case resulting from parents not taking care and disciplining their kids. In the West they supply their kids with condoms. We have our own religious principles and cultural values to consider. Again I also blame this on the ulama for not playing their role in educating Muslims. They are too busy ‘politicking’ and ‘spitting’ at fellow Muslims that they neglect their most important duty to God and to the Muslim society. And they have the audacity to call themselves ‘ulama’.
But if boh-liao decides to view this in the negative, narrow, pedestrian ‘rocket’ way at seeing things, then what to do.. he got boj-liao ideas.
OMG, there is no hope for this country. I thought only the CM is a caveman. But apparently not, almost all of them, educated ones included are also cavemen. The purpose of child marriage to is to curb unwed mothers, irresponsible ‘fathers’ and illegitimate children. Hello morons, you don’t solve a problem by creating a new one. How do you know child marriage will curb lust, ignorance and irresponsibility? Real stupid morons. Then we have this moronic “case by case basis”. When is it allowed and when is it not allowed? I guess when if it is Me_ly_yu’s sister or daughter it should be allowed. Case by case, base on the merit of each case – it is precisely mentality like this that is killing this country. We always want discretion, exceptions, and extenuating circumstances so that morons can discriminate and abuse their authority and practise their bigotry.
Well, well MCA is now saying Gag order yes, back down no. Looks like they are painting themselves in a corner. The case is continuing in court, if it is not stopped soon, what is MCA going to do then?
The more MCA open their mouth, the worst they get themselves into just like Najib.
Things are starting to fall apart for MCA and Najib will follow.
Just sweep it under the carpet.
To my mind there are two allahs.
(1) allah as the world knows it and
(2) allah-jenis-umno in whose name umnoputras habitually cry ketuanan.
And we have an expert here telling us that use of the word “allah” as a reference to “god” was started by the indonesians and in the manner he stated. I certainly hope that he knows what he is talking about.
Call God whatever names, and if God is really really God, He will understand. There is no need to argue endlessly about all these nonsense.
Now, Ahmad Ismail d Pg Umno warlord infamous 4 his pendatang remark dah lost his jantan
He would be taking a one-year leave of absence fr politics
Ha, ha – Allah is great
UMNO B ….the so call protector if Islamic faith is simply full of that.
Without protecting the race and the religion….UMNO B politicians cannot survive.
So protect the race by feeding selected ones loyal to UMNO B…made all relax…rich and happy doing almost next to nothing.
To Allah …they will lay down their lives…like others are faithless…and animals.
So Najib treat us like animals…..and meanwhile put out open arms to call all be “1Malaysia” …while he remains the ONE…representing Allah.
All sounds great and noble….if we ignore CORRUPTIONS…and know they are a band of thieves and robbers.
Now all known…UMNO B is such a low class bunch of hypocrites trying to fool Muslims.
The show is still playing…for Najib’s slogans proven worthless…exactly like Mahathir’s slogans.
These 2 crooks with their slogans …doing the opposites….are the lowest political scumbags we can find….keep using Allah and fooling Muslims.
So great are their plans…all come tumbling like Humpty Dumpty.
Yes UMNO B is broken into pieces with all scrambling to save it with their repeating sickening acts.
Bro Lim, MCA ministers where got the balls to protest and object. Everyone of them has got skeletons inside their clossets and UMNOB know where to look for them. Got to be kuai-kuai or else MACC Will come aknocking on their doors. Even their leader got grievances but cannot open mouth because UMNOputra have a videotape of his blockbuster movie.
Rakyat malaysia sudah biasa dengan kontroversi. Dulu tak boleh tampal poster ALTANTUYAA. Kemudian tak boleh sebut nama ALTANTUYAA, TV tak boleh cerita tentang ALTANTUYAA. Sekarang tak boleh guna perkataan ‘ALLAH’ pulak….. macam menteri-menteri dijankiti mad cow disease.
We have no respect for the judge who had ruled that Allah can be used.Perhaps a Muslim judge should have heard the case for he/she would have quoted the Quran thus educating the Muslims in Malaysia.We are wasting our time finding solutions to problems that will not be accepted by BN Muslims.We have created a lot of controversies that are changing the mindsets of Muslims in Malaysia.Are we ruled by bigots?
For some time we were all melayu babi, keling and china kui. But we were all happy. Kuli was right. Super Mok, Soh Chin Aun, Arumugam and Santokh were then the heros of all young malaysians. The rest of the world continues to produce such national heros. We stopped doing so with dr mamak. He turned himself into some sort of hero. But that is still alright provided he championed the nation’s cause. No. He decided to emphasise on umnoputras. He set about creating a group of rich umno malays. This group has now turned into a super greedy and power crazy inner group. And worse. This group of people now dictates to the umno gobermen what to do and what not to do.
Sickening. Isnt it?
Jib jib boleh.
One One Ooooleh.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/breakingviews/article/whose-credit-not-mcas-of-course-thomas-lee-seng-hock/
Would Soi Lek commit hara kiri/kanan if mca members follow the advice in the above article?
hara kiri/kanan means the knife is plunged into the left side of the stomach and then dragged over to the right side as its contents spill out.
hara kanan/kiri means the exact reverse.
Either method should had be performed by Soi Lek the moment his hotel room video leaked out to the world
I think committing hara kiri/kanan is too extreme just for a sex scandal as that is par for the course for many politicians.
Maybe losing billions of ringgit of taxpayers’ funds is a more worthy reason.
The best method is to elect a government that takes proper care of the Treasury.
nice and this will again make it to word news
#20
Yes, I stand by what I said. The WORD “God” was translated to be synonymous with the NAME “Allah” in the Bahasa Indonesia translation of the Bible (which is used by East Malaysians, and which inspired the Peninsular Malaysian Catholic Church to use in their publications). The Arabic language Bible also uses the NAME “Allah” to mean the WORD “God”.
This error has got to be redressed and corrected.
The Bahasa Indonesia/Malaysia Bible should use the word “Tuhan” which means “God” and The Arab Language Bible should use the word “Ilah” which means “God”.
Allah is a name, a specific name for The Creator.
Let me repeat the example I gave in case you still cannot understand:
To take that personal name and make it a common adjective is the equivalent of this example:
Kit Siang means ‘man’. Here we see that the NAME Kit Siang is made to be synonymous with the WORD ‘man’. So using the Muslim propogation technique we can now say:
Man is Kit Siang.
The problem with this is that if you use this method, then everytime you use the word “man” you would have to say Kit Siang.
That man is 65 years old.
That KIT SIANG is 65 years old.
That man got knocked down by a lorry
That KIT SIANG got knocked down by a lorry.
That man looks like a square-headed nerd.
That KIT SIANG looks like a square-headed nerd.
See?
So, I think the incident in which the Catholic Church or that particular Catholic Church brought this matter to court is in a way a blessing in disguise for. It is high time that people who have been using the name “Allah” without knowing or in ignorance or in assumption, learn. The fact that it was declared valid by a judge in court was purely a technical legal judgement, a judgement by a judge who has no knowledge of Islamic theology or even Christian theology.
To Christians, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost may be three ‘personages’ of God in one. And if the name ‘Allah’ is used in place of God, it is actually you who are insulting your own religion. (bearing in mind that Allah does not mean God and that one of the attributes of the one by the name of ‘Allah’ is that He is indivisible).
So, it is safer for Christians who speak BM or Bahasa Indonesia to use the word Tuhan. This has nothing to do with ketuanan Melayu whatever. Even Malays use the word Tuhan for God. But when we go down to defining more His attributes than we specify it by saying “Allah” or “Tuhan yg namaNya Allah.”
Still cannot undesrtand? Still want to look for the negative side? As our national language says it, Tepuk dada, tanya selera.
Anything can become negative, if you decide to make it negative and if your intention is nothing but negative, from the very beginning.
And also, Muslims have no qualms whatsoever if Christians were to say “Yesus adalah anak Tuhan” in their Bible. But, to say that “Yesus adalah anak Allah”, it is the most ridiculous, blasphemous, false, the most heinous insult to Allah. They have no business using the name Allah in the first place as it has never in biblical history been used. Even the usage of the ‘Al-Kitab’ for the Bible is quite ridiculous actually, but no harm is done theologically. But, I still wonder why they resort to using an Arabic word. ‘Al Kitab’ means ‘The Book’ in Arabic. Whereas it is Bahasa version, not Arabic. Why don’t they just use the word ‘Buku’?
Either they are lost in translation or there is some other hidden agenda? I prefer to remain positive and tell myself that they are lost in translation.
Just look at Mel_a_yu mad dog total nonsense comments on LKS.
And boy….we are back again…Malaysia is the protector of Islamic faith…sort of telling the world largest Muslim country….Indonesia to keep quiet and learn.
I am sure countries like Singapore and Indonesia have no time with UMNO B stupid dirty politics…and so many just treat Mel_a_yu …a mad dog.
I have battled such nonsensical guys on religion in the past.
Mel_a_yu love to instigate and provoke for a debate on religion right here.
He will not get the pleasure …for mad dogs must be avoided…unless gone too far like Liong Sek and become the chosen clown.
Our clown here is worthless.
I suggest he get a bible from any Indonesian hotel and read the translations…to Bahasa Indonesia.
How come our brave protectors dare not confront Indonesia for allowing bibles to use “Allah” and shout like crazy nuts in Malaysia…protesting?
#34
Monsterball, Just admit that you are not intellectually & rationally capable of grasping the point that I was making. Don’t give other bullshits.
Mel_a_yu on Friday, 6 August 2010 – 9:35 am wrote
… snip snip ……
To Christians, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost may be three ‘personages’ of God in one. And if the name ‘Allah’ is used in place of God, it is actually you who are insulting your own religion. (bearing in mind that Allah does not mean God and that one of the attributes of the one by the name of ‘Allah’ is that He is indivisible).
snip … snip
Still cannot undesrtand? Still want to look for the negative side? As our national language says it, Tepuk dada, tanya selera.
Anything can become negative, if you decide to make it negative and if your intention is nothing but negative, from the very beginning.
—————–
Actually, I personally do not believe that Christian will react badly if muslim wants to refer to the trinity as “Allah” provided it is used in a respectful manner as the Catholic church as done in this case. Likewise, if muslims wants to refer to Buddha as the God and pray to Buddha, I do not think that Buddhists will take offence.
What you are putting forth is an argument based on semantics, and there is no religous basis. Have you considered that this perhaps is the reason why PAS has been mild in its response? This matter shouldn’t have been made a political issue.
I do agree with your last statement above i.e. anything can be made negative if that’s the intent. So to bring this whole argument down to earth, let me assure you that I would be honored if you want to name your son, or your daughter or your dog that you love after my name. I see this as a positive and I would not be offended.
Mel..a..yu,
The Holy Quaran clearly states that there is no other god but the Almighty Allah. Since the muslims believe there is only one God, then I think it is not wrong to say “Yesus anak Allah” because here the christians are refering to God who the muslims believe there is only one. So where is the problem?
Anyway, whatever views one may have on the controvercial issue, I would like to say that it is more important to be spiritually clean, it being the attribute God looks for in a person.
God, by whatever name we may call Him, does not need mere humans to defend his Holy Name for He is the Almighty.
Mel_a_yu on Friday, 6 August 2010 – 9:35 am says
—- snip snip snip —-
That man is 65 years old.
That KIT SIANG is 65 years old.
That man got knocked down by a lorry
That KIT SIANG got knocked down by a lorry.
That man looks like a square-headed nerd.
That KIT SIANG looks like a square-headed nerd.
——————
The big different here is that your examples above are aimed at insulting KIT SIANG. Whereas the Catholic Church was worshipping Allah as God.
If the Catholic Church has used the term Allah in the negative way, then yep, the Catholic Church should stop using the term Allah and apologize to all muslim.
As it stands, I think you owe Kit Siang an apology.
#36 cto, I appreciate the fact that at least you have attempted to be clever about it all.
But, to me you still have got your pieces of matter up there scattered and not in place.
Its not about ‘name’ per se. Its about what that name signifies.
Let us look at the English translation of the Qur’an.
I’ll give you examples of translations by three well-known translators:
YUSUFALI: In the name of ALLAH, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: In the name of ALLAH, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
SHAKIR: In the name of ALLAH, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
The could have put the word GOD instead of Allah of Allah is synonymous with God. The point is Allah has never been used as a word for “God” or “god”. There is no corresponding word in English or any other language. Those translators only use the word God when there is a corresponding word ‘Ilah’ meaning God in the original Arabic. Allah is the name of this ‘Ilah’. The word Allah (the stress is on the last syllable) has neither feminine nor plural, and has never been applied to anything other than the unimaginable Supreme Being.
and as to your >>
>> “Actually, I personally do not believe that Christian will react badly if muslim wants to refer to the trinity as “Allah” provided it is used in a respectful manner as the Catholic church as done in this case.”<> ” Likewise, if muslims wants to refer to Buddha as the God and pray to Buddha, I do not think that Buddhists will take offence.”<<
My comment: Yes, I'm sure they will not take offence, in fact they will be delighted. Imagine, Muslims elevating a man by the name of Gautama Buddha to be The Creator of the Universe. Muslims will NEVER refer to Buddha as god and pray to him.
No, this is not about semantics and semantics per se. This is about theology, the Unity of Allah. The knowledge about The One who created everything including us, out of His love. It is about the Creator of Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad the persons.
The ancestors of the Malays were Hindus and Buddhists. We are no more in that predicament. I don't want to say more about that as it would easily be misinterpreted & create unnecessary misunderstanding. I will leave it that that and trust you to think for yourself.
Errata: typo:
They could have put the word GOD instead of Allah if Allah is synonymous with God. The point is Allah has never been used as a word for “God” or “god”. There is no corresponding…..
some words missing:
>> “Actually, I personally do not believe that Christian will react badly if muslim wants to refer to the trinity as “Allah” provided it is used in a respectful manner as the Catholic church as done in this case.”<<
My comment: Yes, I also know that they won't react badly. Its a compliment to them in fact. Its the opposite to Muslims. The point is Allah is not the trinity and the trinity is not Allah.
Mel_a_yu on Friday, 6 August 2010 – 12:24 pm wrote
——–snip snip ——-
No, this is not about semantics and semantics per se. This is about theology, the Unity of Allah. The knowledge about The One who created everything including us, out of His love. It is about the Creator of Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad the persons.
———————
The Catholic Church is using the term Allah to mean God. They have been using this term for years and no one is bothered by it until this became a political issue. Why is this a theological issue?
If this is really a theological issue, then muslims in Malaysia ought to have a theological debate with their Indonesian and Arab muslims first (cos’ they do not see anything wrong with Christians using the term Allah) and sort out what is theologically correct before dishonouring what was decided in the court and insisting on the ban.
With all due respect, I personally do not believe that the vast majority of muslims in Malaysia even think about any theological implications on this matter before they protest the court decision. It is a emotional reaction cos’ this matter was politicised. Irresponsibly, I might add and muslims were led to believe that the court decision is a defeat.
Dear Mel_a_yu,
Thank you for your explanations of Islamic beliefs. I think this discussion blog does not concern so much about what Muslims or any other religion believes. As far as the United Nations is concerned and even for most Islamic countries, the rights of religions are respected.
As far as this court case or issue is concerned, it is about respecting the rights of Christians to use the word “Allah” in their publications. If some Muslims feel offended, it’s their problem … but the rights of other religions must be maintained and that is what this discussion blog is all about. There is definitely no intention on the part of the Christian paper to insult or offend other religions – I hope this is clear. Their insistence on their right to use the word “Allah” is based on their historical usage for more than a hundred years. The word has become a part of the “East Malaysian” Malay language used by the East Malaysian Christians for more than one hundred years.
Mel_a_yu on Friday, 6 August 2010 – 12:33 pm wrote
My comment: Yes, I also know that they won’t react badly. Its a compliment to them in fact. Its the opposite to Muslims. The point is Allah is not the trinity and the trinity is not Allah.
—————
All christians and muslims with any knowledge of their own respective religion know that “Allah is not the trinity and the trinity is not Allah”. There should be no confusion here if one is properly grounded in one’s faith. When the catholic church uses the term Allah in the christian context of the trinity, any muslim with any knowledge of Islam would know that this is refering to God.
You should give more credit to your fellow believers. They cannot be so easily confused. And for those that are easily confused, would you even bother to listen to their theological argument?
Likewise, if muslims want to use the term Yahweh in their prayers instead of Allah, I do not think that Christians will not be confused and take offence. Again, provided it is done in a respectful manner.
Why do you compliment the tolerance of Christians and yet not condemm the intolerance and lack of understanding of Muslims in this regard?
The country has gained independence for 53 years now. The term Allah has been used for much longer. There was no problem until the former Home Minister wanted to leave a mark in the cabinet and government. He thought that he would be better remembered if he could create some controversy, and religious matter is among the easiest. Now we see people debating what Allah should mean.
A persons who practices any religion knows what he believes. It is not for a third person to tell him whether it should be God or Allah or Xin that he believes. It is none of the business of the government to tell what is the right term for them to believe.
Article 11: Freedom of religion of the Federal Constitution states:
(1) Every person has the right to profess and practise his religion and, subject to Clause (4), to propagate it.
(4) State law and in respect of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Labuan, federal law may control or restrict the propagation of any religion doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam.
By calling God Allah, Christians cannot be said to be propagating Christianity to Muslims.
If Christians are not allowed to use the term ‘Allah’, then Christians are deprived of their right under Article 11 of the constitution.
DPM Muhyiddin did not want MCA to raise the Allah issue. To Muhyiddin, when dirts are swept under the carpet, every thing is clean; his cleanliness is carpet deep. Muhyiddin will keep adding more items as sensitive matter, and pretty soon Malaysians might not even be able to talk about weather when some people believe weather is the results of act of God, and others would invite Allah to be involved.
Some people talk of one god while others talk about trinity.
To me, it is all the same.
You can see God in one dimension or you can see HIM in three or more dimensions. You are still seeing only ONE god.
How many dimensions or facets you want to see HIM in is up to you.
It is called personal choice in democracy. No need to twist and turn.
Malaysia has many races but we are all still classified under one category, “Malaysians”.
hi Mel_a_yu …focus on the Ingel and Torat.
Tell me..what is the differences between Christian and Islam?
For centuries…both fought with millions died with one difference….still fighting and not once they fought over the words of “ALLAH”
Why you UMNO B toads keep talking cock….concerning these two religions??
yeah monsterball you did the right thing.
Just stamp your monster foot on that fellow.
Mel_a_yu ….Huhh…Even the name sounds racist..
Christians believes in the God that created Adam and Eve, the phrophets(exclude Mohammad) and Christ as the Messiah..
Muslims believes in the God that created Adam and Eve(Hawa) the prophets(including Mohammad and even Jesus/Isa)
So both Muslims and Christian believe in the God that was worshiped by Moses(Musa), Abraham(Ibrahim) etc..
Now is the God worshiped by Christians is different from the God Worshiped by Muslims?
Off course Muslims can claim exclusive right on Mohammad as their prophets…. Christians do not believe in Mohammad
But Christians believe that there are no more prophets after Jesus Christ…. and Jesus Christ is of utmost significant in Christians’ faith…. as HE is “….he way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father-God except through Him..” (John 14:6)
And another significant difference is polygamy is not allowed in Roman Catholics/Christianity…
If God permitted polygamy -he could have created more that one woman for Adam! Being the mighty God he could not have been underestimate of overestimate His own creation….from the beginning… now and forever He knows everything!
Typo…
But Christians believe that there are no more prophets after Jesus Christ…. and Jesus Christ is of utmost significant in Christians’ faith…. as He is “….the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father-God except through Him..” (John 14:6 -paraphrased)
Are we diverting the issue and talk…’Who is God?”
Wow you guys….listen to me…keep to your faith and do not insult a religion.
It has always been politicians and so call holy ones interpret and explaining to sort of control wild minds..for the good of mankind….and in modern days….we have read and seen enough…drastic changes for the better to move forward.
However..in Malaysia…UMNO B loves to stay put and move backwards….for forwards..means no more half past sixes votes to support them.
I hope you have enough knowledge to talk religions and not talk from what you read and listened to others…without the great foundations of Comparative Religions studies…and researches you have made …talking to high ranking authorities of both religions.
Have you at least read the Koran and the Bible for a start?
I have refrain myself for talking religious stuffs to avoid giving pleasures to fanatics from both sides…..as changing of the government is riding high…with CORRUPTIONS as our inspirations to vote UMNO B out..why fall into traps to talk cock with Mel_a_yu?….which will hit you hard if you insult the Koran.
That is exactly what he wants.
Please read my #46 message and let Mel_a_yu respond to that. Thanks.
oooooop..I..My comment has changed from #46 to # 48 now.