FreeMalaysiaToday
Sat, 26 Jun 2010
By Hawkeye
GEORGE TOWN: Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng is demanding an apology from MCA and MIC over the latter’s apparent move to roundly criticised him over Penang’s contentious decision to ban sports betting.
The retraction by Prime Minister Najib Tun Razak had liberated Pakatan Rakyat which had earlier condemned the move to legalise sports betting and took action when Penang and Selangor ban any gaming outlets from offering betting packages.
He said that he together with Pakatan became victims of baseless and wild accusations when Penang was the first state to ban sports betting.
With Najib’s decision, “it is only fair that the detractors such as MCA and MIC apologise to the Penang government including me”, Lim said.
Najib yesterday revoked an earlier decision by the Finance Ministry to legalise sports betting in the country, which was approved on the pretext of controlling illegal gaming activities which had reportedly ballooned to RM10 million in the underground economy.
“It is an unprecedented move. A shocking move! Najib seems to support Pakatan on this matter. It is a good decision. We (Pakatan) did not see this coming as earlier MCA, MIC and former premier Dr Mahathir Mohamad had supported the move to legalise sports betting,” Lim told a press conference.
On how to reign in the lucrative illegal betting industry, Lim said the only answer is through enforcement.
“We cannot simply legalise something which is wrong. We have a sand-mining issue recently where some folk had illegally exported sand to Singapore from Johor. Should we legalise sand mining then? We have some Umno leaders who speak from one side of the mouth but think another thing. These are double standards and we cannot condoned this,” Lim said.
He hopes Najib’s move would put an end to the issue as it is clear that majority of the people do not support the move to legalise sports betting.
Since Umno youth is against legalising sport betting it is of little surprise that Najib got to toe the line to regain popular support with the umnoputras.We have already more than enough of legalised gambling which burdened the poor rakyat with the number of draws per week.The way to get revenue from the ppl is throught efficient enforcement of the law and bringing corruption down to the bear minimum such as the recent sand smuggling to Singapore where hundreds of million is lost by the govt all because the corrupt practices.This further proves the foresight of the PR governance that it is the party that truly cares for the well being of the rakyat and the time is ripe for the ppl to change our future for a better tomorrow for our future generation,a more progressive modern Malaysia.
If Sports Toto has 3 draws per week / 6 bet types ( 4,5,6D and 3 types Jackpot draws) ie 18 bets per week, in what way is this less “addictive and destructive to healthy lifestyles” than Sports Betting for it to be allowed under the Local Government Act Section 101(v) of Penang where Sports betting is not?
What about the many “licensed” slot machines in the many clubs owned by “you know whose brother” whose draws and bets are continuous and repetitive every night and day as long as gaming establishment is opened and customers are lured to put in money for bets?
Why are these not similarly opposed against and banned under the Local Government Act Section 101(v) ?
You think about it – casino by Genting and Sports Toto are both licensed by MOF. Thats not all. Genting & Sports Toto are both public listed, and hence there’s another second tier of regulation from regulatory agencies like Bursa Malaysia & Bursa Listing rules, as would the case of Sports Betting given to Ascot controlled by Berjaya. There’s so much bourhaha on this but none about the gaming slot machine outlets of which there are more than 367 of these throughout the country with I don’t know how many in Penang.
80% of these owned by 2 groups. Ask yourself who own these and their background? Are they listed companies?
Their draws and bets are nonstop and “unlimited”. They readily give you a membership card. You go in start betting – no limit to number of bets, only limited by your purse. Beers drinks and buffet are on the house, 7 days a week.
These are more “addictive and destructive to healthy lifestyles” if you ask me compared to sports betting after FIFA world Cup! So aren’t you gonna think of banning these too?
umno seems to believe that the rights of the Chinese is to gamble, just as the rights of the Indians is to drink toddy.
And the rights of the malays to to perpetually enjoy the nep
I have personally seen poor families broken up suffer because the parents waste their hard-earned money on gambling, instead of for the welfare of their children.
Flip Flop again? Najib is worse than the sleeping PM when it comes to flip flops!!
Najib’s handling of this betting licence issue is a fiasco and mega disaster of biblical proportions!
And if the licence had not been issued, what was ther to “withdraw?”
See how this UMNO/BN Govt and Najib twist and lie. All that $77 million paid to APCO is proving to be an utter waste of the Rakyat’s hard earned money!!
It shows what a poor administrator he his and what a poor bunch of advisors he has. They should all quit!!
Who’s going to compensate Berjaya Corp shareholders when the KLSE opens for trading Monday morning?
dpp
we are all of 1 race, the Human Race
Jibby was quietly reading his paper when his wife sneaks up behind him and whacks him on the head with a frying pan. “What was that for?” he whimpered.
“That was for the note in your pants pocket with the name Altantooya written on it”, she replies.
“Two weeks ago when I went to the races, Altantooya was the name of one of the horses I bet on”, he explains.
Rosma looks satisfied, apologizes, and goes off to do work around the house.
Three days later he’s again sitting in his chair reading when she nails him with an even bigger frying pan, knocking him out cold. When he comes to, he demanded, “What the hell was that for?”
“Your horse phoned.”
BRAVO Lim Guan Eng..standing firm for right decision….for Malaysians in Penang.
Those puppets to Najib will never apologize….as they are trained not to admit any mistakes..to
show weakness by Mahathir.
Mahathir supported Vincent Tan…twisting t to support Chinese gamblers.
Najib need to support Mahathir…and he UMNO B Supreme Council unanimously rejected it….actually shaming Mahathir and Najib.
But it is nice to read how Hawkeye put in such diplomatic way.
To me…Najib have been outwardly proven to be a show dog PM..no power when come to serious matters..except very powerful…if he can find ways and means how to get billions for UMNO kitty bank.
Rakyat voice not only to heard, tries to secede the irresistibles eartshaking voices of rakyat who always agitate by your flip flop decision no longer accepted no more.
BRAVO, well done and hats off k1980.
Despite the mayhem and chaos inflicted upon us, it is such sense of humour that keeps us all going, day in and out.
another flip-flopping policy of BN
Now that all bets are off sports betting, the RAKYAT must insist that Magnum 4D, Da Ma Cai and Sports Toto must have their licences revoked next.
Hey, look, what is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander, ok! If sports betting is wrong for all those reasons, Sports Toto, Dama Cai and Magnum 4D are also wrong for exactly the same reasons, no less!
So, for consistency, Pakatan states: Penang, Kedah, Kelantan and Selangor must ban all outlets (or not renew their premise licences upon expiry). Otherwise, PR states will lose face for not walking the talk. I think this will be a breath of fresh air for the landscape and the RAKYAT will agree. After all, billions are lost by households every year and only a miuscule few are lucky enough to hit the jackpot. But the greater good of the people must prevail . This is one of the obvious cases where Big Brother knows best from the trail of history. Undoubtedly.
SUPPORT POURING IN
I am with banning all sorts of gambling.
What I meant was gambling of all sorts should not be legalized!
Gambling can certainly have undesired consequences. But it is a decision for the people to make whether they choose to gamble or not.
The 4-D license given to Magnum used the excuse that if it is not legalized, gambling would go on underground and the government loses revenue. But then why was there a need to give license to Sports TOTO and the 3-D when they operate the same gaming bets? The government should have limited gaming license to Magnum but increase the tax rate when the company’s earnings exceed some ‘expected return’ – threshold for the financial year. That would have allowed government to increase its revenue without promoting gambling in the process.
If the total volume of bet for sports amount to only 10 million ringgit, why does the government bother to legalize it. Obviously Berjaya would not be interested to obtain the license if the revenue amounts to only 10 million a year which is only enough to buy half a frog from Perak legislative assembly. Giving license for sports betting would only increase the bets.
There are certainly many things that Pakatan Rakyat should object, and the sports betting issue has just arisen, and they are opposing it at the right time.
Najib’s decision is good because it opposes what Mamakthir was advocating. Mamakthir sneers at the Chinese for eating pork and gambling, and pretended to be civilized to allow Chinese their choice. Chinese choose to have Mathematics and science taught in Chinese in Chinese Primary schools and they voice it loud and clear, but Mamakthir bulldozed through the change to using English as a medium of instruction. Mamakthir imagines that Chinese love to gamble and eat pork. The fact is not all Chinese lose their sense when they gamble as Mamakthir wants others to believe. Chinese are prepared for the outcome it they partake in any gamble. Chinese eat meat including pork and they love pork as much as any other meat that they do consume. Muslims do not take pork and that is their choice. They are not supposed to take crab too but some are seen openly eating crab.
I am happy that Whatever Mamakthir proposes Najib opposes. The Sultan of Johor supports the crooked bridge, just like Mamakthir. I hope Najib sticks to the decision made by AAB which he supported as DPM. There is no need for Najib to respond on the matter; just let the dead project RIP. Gambling can certainly have undesired consequences.
OVERWHELMING SUPPORT!
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So what is the PRECISE reason Penang State Govt oppose and intend to use Local Government Act Section 101(v) against Sports betting??? Is it because gambling is immoral or promote unhealthy lifestyle per se? That although it helps in revenue for the state – that could be used for good purposes – yet the indirect costs of gambling, such as its tendency to fracture family unit, crime and lost productivity that gambling tends to induce, cost the state more or that the end of revenue for the state does not justify the bad means to obtain it? Yes & No.
No, because, if one reads carefully Lim Guan Eng (“LGE”)’s Wesak Day announcement on June 1st 2010 “the Penang state government IS NOT OPPOSED to betting or gaming outlets in Penang.” [Maybe (I guess) this is because the DAP does not want to appear “moralistic or religious” like its partner PAS opposing gambling in principle; neither does DAP wants to appear to promote the “Nanny state” telling citizens what is good or bad in denigration of civil liberties and freedom of choice including to freedom to choose bad habits that don’t harm third parties].
Yes, in the sense Penang Govt is opposed to only the mode of gambling like Sports Betting where it promotes “excessiveness” – as adjudged by LGE’s statement – “However we are concerned at the EXCESSIVELY high number of draws -12 draws or special draws conducted weekly by the three gaming companies licensed by the BN government, which should be reduced”.
(Please note here Penang is not against gambling per se but the excessive number of draws). The argument is not harmfulness of the gambling activity but the “excessiveness” in the number of draws or special draws!
That is why I ask if that were the criteria (of excessive number of draws/special draws) whether Penang has determined the position of: –
· Sports Toto that has 3 draws per week / 6 bet types ( 4,5,6D and 3 types Jackpot draws) ie 18 bets per week; and
· slot machines in licensed premuises that (theoretically) allow draws/bets without limit, with limit only to the size of gamblers’ purse with beers drinks and buffet on the house, 7 days a week to encourage one to stay on,
licensed by the BN govt earlier that the Penang Govt presently allow to carry on when their draws are arguably more excessive than Sports Betting ?????
It is strange that LGE should deem it fit to use Najib’s retraction of Sports betting as basis to demand an apology from MCA and MIC over the latter’s criticism when Najib’s retraction has nothing to do with LGE’s rationale for the ban – but has more to do with UMNO Supreme Council/certain sectors within UMNO opposing licensing Sports Betting on political/morality grounds that it would be inconsistent with Islamic precepts of morality that will alienate the Malay Vote. Now that’s not LGE’s rational because he has said explicitly in Wesak Day statement – “The Penang state government IS NOT OPPOSED to betting or gaming outlets in Penang” (in principle).
It is not strange Jeffery.
It is a diplomatic insult to Najib…by a smart politician…hahahahahahahaha
MCA & MIC are irrelevant to their communities and without supporting PM & TDM, they will be long gone from BN. That’s why their communities don’t trust them, as we are always made scapegoats by the UMNOputras. Both these parties has fallen into the UMNOputras trap and there’s no turning back. Money and power are the greed of the day and our communities had enough of the power struggle for personal gains. BN are too dirty and the strongest bleach even can’t clean a portion of it. Even their main Malay rights movement, are so engrossed in securing this sports betting licenses than fighting or protecting their rights. Money and connection are considered a ‘tool’ in such social ill business licenses. Hopefully, all the communities work together in ONE voice and condemn them in the coming general elections.
Jeffrey & Loh, ok – the apology thing LGE demanded is politicking, albeit a reasoned and justifiable one considering MCA, MIC’s stance.
Now this bit u suggest that Penang govt’s stance that it is NOT opposed to betting, gambling on moralistic/religious grounds does not mean that Penang govt is cribbed or cabin’d by its stance. If the vast majority of the people does not want gambling in the state, so be it. U don’t need to be ‘moralistic’ or religious to see the devastating effects of gambling on lives and homes. OK, the purist will see morals in every action. I say we just look at the effects.
Now if u want another justification, this is it – MCA will be denied a source of funds from Magnum 4D; Vincent Tan will hv less to bankroll BN; Ananda Krishna will hv less from Da Ma Cai to bankroll BN too. There u go, killing 3 birds with 1 stone.
Just say that the “effects justify the means”.
The UMNO goons are so vociferous and bellicose when it comes to claiming to be holier than the other Muslims worldwide. They even claim to be the champions of the faith and would readily go on a jihad to save the same.
Yet, what a shame! They can’t divest their greed when it comes to money secured through gambling which is HARAM in Islam. These munafiqs would find excuses such as being generous to the non-Muslims especially the Chinese who have the gambling genes in them.
Such hypocracy can only be found in the UMNOputras in Bolehland.
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If GMJ cannot stop all gaming company, at least try to reduce some. It’s too rampant and doesn’t benefit the society even a little bit.
LGE should be honour for his stand.
Mr CM these two “Beggar Political Parties” MCA and MIC will not apologise to you lah …you do not have the repulsive smelly aroma of their masters, UMNO. These dogs will not hesitate to lick their masters’ toes if summon to do so. Forget them lah…they are too busy making porno movies!!!
MCA, MIC, and Umno soon to be wiped off and left become endanger species.
Basically, like cigarettes, gambling ought to be banned, as both in one way or another has brought more sufferings than goodness to mankind. Unless LGE also take a hard stance in delegalized all gambling activities in Penang, stopping sports betting inevitably will be seen as purely a political move, and there’s no point denying that is a fact, because at the end of the day it is having that political will to do what is right that counts. To associate not banning cigarettes because that would be deemed as a step to curb or crackdown to freedom or human rights, and delegalized all gambling is seen as pro islamic are largely a political myth, it is like saying we have more smokers in the country than non smokers. If LGE got booted out because he has done the right thing, so be it.
No doubt, LGE’s stance against Sports betting is 100% defensible if based solely on political expedience and pragmatism as mentioned by ENDANGERED HORNBILL in 2nd last para of his posting #22. Most pertinent is the unstated reason of DAP’s need to show solidarity with DAP’s partners PKR & PAS, which being more Malay based than DAP, are desirous of leveraging the religious card (against gambling) to canvass for Malay votes of their contitutencies, with the next GE in view.
However if one sets political expedience and pragmatism and talks strictly of “principle” only thats where LGE’s decision becomes “controversial”.
For in advocating a ban, there can only, in principle, exist two approaches: one is either taking the religious/moralistic/theocratic stand OR the secular stand. PAS definitely takes the first approach ie gambling should be banned because its haram per se.
Secular approach is different. It is based on Jeremy Bentham (John’s Start Mill’s father) theory of utilitarianism. By this, the State does not side any moral or religious view point; it is neutral; whether it criminalises an act depends solely on harm to others, hence robbery theft and rape are criminal. When it comes to acts that harm no third party but only one ownself (& family) – such as alcohol/cigarette indulgences, driving with seat belts or not, and gambling – then whether to allow or ban the activity or allow some degree of it depends on weighing the “utility” value of allowing against prohibiting, in other words a decision based on economic/social cost & benefit analysis and SWOT analyses.
Hence in secular states one does not ban gambling per se but license its use. (This is so in US, UK and most Western countries claiming to be secular democratic where the democraaric right/civil liberty of an individual to choose between doing desirable/moral and immoral/undesirable activity is, for so long as it crosses NOT the line of inflicting harm on 3rd parties – is allowed and stoipped by criminal law. Even the paternal Nanny state of the “progressive” Red Dot (Singapore) down South has done the Cost/benefit/Swot analysis and weighing all advantages of reaping revenue from gambling which otherwise will be reaped by underground gambling or Genting over this side against social costs (mitigated by imposing a levy on its nationals so that only locals who could afford this vice would have access), it has come down in favour of Gambling by licensing its casinos.
So far LGE/DAP has not taken the PAS line that gambling is bad per se. Thi is evinced in his first Wesak Day statement – “the Penang state government IS NOT OPPOSED to betting or gaming outlets in Penang.” So LGE is assumed to take the secular line of weighing benefits against cost/SWOT analysis on issue of Sports betting and has drawn a “tipping point” at lig should be taken to be takes the “secular” approach, saying the line of what is permissible and what is “excessive” is somewhere at 12 draws or more – ref his statement “We are concerned at the excessively high number of draws -12 draws or special draws conducted weekly by the three gaming companies licensed by the BN government, which should be reduced.” What is controversial is whether there is factual basis/empirical evidence to support that threshold to ban Sports betting but not the prevailing Sports Toto, magnum & other slot machines still in his state when he indirectly denies he is banning it for political expedience to show solidarily with rest of partners relating malay votes since his ground for banning is different from at least PAS’s!
Sorry typo omission – “However if one sets political expedience and pragmatism ASIDE…”
This issue is not that simple as it seems. If one takes secular approach and bans sports betting based on tipping point of 12 draws one has a hard time to explain why one permits slot machines of unlimited draws or Toto/Magnum of cumulative more draws! If one uses “lifestyle” argument to stop something like that, then the theoretical challenges are limitless. For examples: Ok you allow alcohol/smoking though its bad for heath (a secular reason) – then should you limit in Penang the sale of beers/whiskey to any one particular patron to not more than 4 glasses (since more than that its binge drinking, bad for heath and prone to accident inflicting economic/social costs)? Then why stop at drinks? What about Saturated fat consisting of triglycerides/saturated fatty acid radicals – the main dietary cause of high blood cholesterol – found in junk food/buffet especially in fried stuff like KFC that our children consume without restraint? Weighing social/economic costs and benefits should we curtail KFC’s advertisements as we do smoking advertisements? Then what about the video arcades in Selangor and Penang: though not gambling it is an addictive habit for our youngsters who are induced to play these games hours at end in some dinghy outlets exposing themselves to truancy and bad elements? Should we curb their Licences if these are surely not healthy lifestyle?
If one says none of these reasons really count – and that looking for consistency is pedantic – then what’s the real reason for the ban?
If the DAP/PR admits that it is actually to accommodate Malay voters wishes for pragmatic political reason to try win votes in next GE – and yet skewed on alternative secular basis of excessiveness based on number of draws – then there will arise legitimate concerns on part of DAP’s traditional supporters whether DAP is sacrificing its time honoured/tested principle of plural secularism and that its “Middle Malaysia” incorporate certain common shared norms with that of PAS’s Islamic State! If so the concern is that the way DAP compromises to its Malay based coalition partners requirements will also follow the very same routes of MCA and MIC within BN to submit to UMNO’s hegemony because of the political importance of the Malay vote. This is not to factor in the other angle that if Najib has relented to Mahathir’s point of view of licensing Sports Toto then it becomes ironical that the BN and Mahathir will, in that limited sense and outward appearances , look as if they uphold the “secular” principle and the principle of acknowledging non Malay rights to gambling better than DAP or Pakatan Rakyat. (I say “limited” and “outward appearances” because people also know the tune is such because a crony benefits from licensing).
One should look at the stand of Pakatan Rakyat (PR) secretariat coordinator Datuk Zaid Ibrahim.
His is subtly different. He does not reject Sports toto or any other gambling outright or excessive or bad lifestyles. That it is a bad habit/social vice is granted/assumed. Instead Zaid calls on PM to set up a Gaming Commission to REGULATE (meaning also to license) betting licences in an effort to curb the social fall-out from gambling. That means like S’pore stance, Zaid is calling for a secular Cost/benefit/Swot analysis of how to get the revenue from taxing gambling to finance other good national causes and mitigating the fall out of gambling at the same time.
Sorry, typo mistake in 3rd parta from bottom – “This is not to factor in the other angle that if Najib has relented to Mahathir’s point of view of licensing Sports BETTING (not Toto) then it becomes ironical…”
Both MIC and MCA are lap-dogs. They only know how to bark and lick.
Will Vincent Tan still donate RM 525 million to charity then?
Let us hope he does so as he was ‘inspired’ by Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.
Ha ha ha Najib’s cancellation of the sports betting permit proved all along the Penang CM Lim Guan Eng’s contention that additional gambling is not good for the people.Am pretty glad that the PM has admitted the mistaken.And all those especially MCA and MIC leaders who initially blindly supported the PM’s decision and critized LGE should apolozise for being hasty. Frankly once again it proved that all component parties in the BN are ball carriers ,just supporting the PM’s decision without any substance. For you guys info,Gerakan and LDP in Sabah are now at war of words with Umno over a seat in Kalabarkan,Tawau.However let’s hope this battle of words from these two small boys would not be ended like hot chicken’s shit.
Please ban all legalised gambling and betting. The Government is not doing the Chinese a favour or protecting their right to gamble. The government just want the Chinese to remain in the quagmire of hopelessness and continue to pay good taxes to the government.
Why worry about gambling going underground if we ban legalised gambling. At least you are not exposing the new gamblers everyday to the game. Let’s those who want to gamble illegally do so at their own risk. The government must vigorously enforce the law if it genuinely care for the welfare of the people.
About legalised gambling, may I know how the numbers are drawn? Are we 100% sure it is completely above broad. Who monitor and supervise all the draws. What is the pay out ratio of all the draws? How the gambling outlets licences are decided and approved. Have we checked the assets of those who approve gambling outlets? To me it is a bl**dy scheme meant to impoverish most sucker Malaysians especially those from the middle and lower income groups. We should move one step further, ban all legalised betting – it is just simply too simple for too many people to be hooked to this stupid habit. Please ask around, there are many who spend easily four to five hundreds a month on 4d and sport toto.
First, the (rumoured) payout to buy the three silver frogs. Next, the pr show of bravado – the donation he promised (will he honour it now?). Vincent anak berjaya’s recent investments seem to have all gone down the drain. Or have they? I think not. Esp if the rumour is true for then vincent anak berjaya surely would have his hands firmly on the rope with noose round umno’s neck. Errr pudu prison. And that large plot of vacant land beside the prison. Yes. Who will be developing it? I heard (another rumour?), yes, its vincent anak berjaya. Part of a greater plot? Smells like it to me!
Now, the Chinese has a Malay leader to champion their rights– da mamak has defended the rights of the Chinese to gamble (till they commit suicide by jumping off buildings. Then their wives and children can be expected to pay off their debts). Now what about their rights to scholarships?