By Farish A. Noor
In his book ‘Torture and Modernity: Self, Society and State in Modern Iran’ (1994), the scholar Darius Rejali looks at how the processes of torture and punishment have evolved over the centuries in Iran, from the period of the Qajar dynasty all the way to the regime of the Shah and the Islamic Revolutionary government. He makes one interesting and important observation which remains relevant to all of those who are concerned about the use of corporal punishment and torture by modern states today: that corporal punishment dates back to the medieval era where the popular perception of punishment was that it was a public spectacle that ought to be enacted upon the body of the individual, and not the subject him/herself.
In this respect, the modes of torture and punishment that were used in pre-modern Iran were no different from the modes of punishment that were used in China, India, Africa or Europe. Throughout the world during the pre-modern era the popular understanding of punishment was that it was meant to be a form of public humiliation, operating through the mode of public violence, that was intended to compel the guilty to repent and alter his/her ways through the threat of violence and force. Hence we see how in medieval Europe, Asia and the Arab world the modes of public punishment were all equally gory and bloody: Heads were chopped off, bodies were impaled, whipped, burned, branded, broken, quartered and sliced to pieces. Most of these punishments were carried out in public, ostensibly as a ‘lesson’ to others. But as many modern psychologists have pointed out, these public spectacles of violence also served the voyeuristic inclination of those who relished the sight of bodies being violated in public, and were thus also forms of bizarre public pornography.
In his study on the evolution of torture and punishment in Iran, Rejali notes how this medieval mode of punishment gradually developed to become a more sophisticated mode of care and policing in*stead. The violent spectacles of state-sanctioned violence that involved public enactments of torture eventually gave way to the regime of the prison and the culture of pastoral care and reform of the Self instead. Why?
Simply put, the reason behind this evolution lay in the growing consciousness that the medieval modes of punishment of the past were simply barbaric, primordial and missed the point. Particularly after the advent of the Iranian revolution, Iranian lawmakers realised that
the aim of law enforcement was not simply to exercise legitimate state violence upon citizens, but to help citizens reach their full potential as rational agents and responsible individuals. Medieval modes of violent punishment could not do that for the simple reason that by abusing and violating the bodies of the condemned, they were targeting the body, and not the conscious Self.
The argument can be illustrated thus: Pre-modern modes of punishment assumed that if an individual had committed a crime or a wrong against society, then the offending organ or part of the body of the individual would pay the price. Hence in many primitive societies we come across instances of bodily abuse and torture that target the organs or parts of the body that were to ‘blame’: The person who lies or slanders, for instance, would have his tongue cut out. The voyeur would have his eyes gauged out. The thief would have his hand cut off. The rapist would be castrated, and so on.
Such modes of physical punishment were, however, deemed to be less and less effective and furthermore failed to solve the problem of criminality itself, for the punishment was not being inflicted on the truly offending party, namely the subjective Self. For it is not the tongue that lies, but the person. It is not the hand that steals, but the person. It is not the penis that rapes, but the person. Addressing the responsibility of the person entailed going beyond the body, and dealing with the psychology of the individual itself. This in turn
meant that violence was not a solution to the problem, but in fact only made things worse: For a state that endorses violence as a means to achieve justice eventually arrives at a different destination altogether. Such a state merely normalises violence and makes violence
more and more commonplace and acceptable. Rather than morally uplifting society, it debases and brutalises society even further. An example would be the case of the French Revolution, where the revolutionaries who executed the leaders of the old regime eventually
ended up being murdered themselves too, including Robespierre, who died at the guillotine that he himself introduced.
The development of the related notions of justice, care, reform (of the Self) and responsibility (of both the State and the Individual subject) only came about much later, with the development of modern social sciences that included political sociology, psychology and
notably the psychology of criminality. The modern age marks its difference from the medieval age by accepting that bodies are not to be blamed, but rather subjectivities and selves. In other words, modern human beings relinquished their obsession with violent torture and punishment when they realised that torturing and abusing people would not make them better human beings.
Which brings us to the current debate about caning in Malaysia, be it caning that is enforced by civil secular law or by Islamic law. Already in Malaysia we have the instance of a woman who may soon be caned for the Shariah offence of drinking beer. And meanwhile in
Malaysia we have illegal immigrants being caned for over-staying their visas and entry permits in the country. Human rights activists who oppose caning and other forms of state-sanctioned physical violence do so on the grounds that we believe that such violent punishments do nothing to solve the attendant problems and issues that need to be
addressed in another, more intelligent way. Caning an illegal immigrant does nothing to reform the person, but merely violates and abuses his/her body. Likewise caning someone for what is perceived to be a moral crime by religious law does nothing to reform the person’s subjectivity, but merely abuses the body of the person instead. Why, even in the Islamic Republic of Iran the regime of the Ayatollahs realised that physical torture was never and could never succeed in making someone a better human being, but would actually lead to the opposite and create a society that was more and more violent and accustomed to violence. Hence their use of public education and counselling instead.
Malaysians are now faced with a similar question and we need to ask ourselves whether the time has come for this society of ours to understand and accept the fact that violence is not and will never be a solution to the social problems of our times- be it criminality, corruption, abuse of power or the breakdown of the social contract. The modern human subject realises that one cannot be forced to be just or good, and that a good society cannot emerge out of violent compulsion. State violence merely brutalises us further and denies the value and primacy of human reason and the capacity for human beings to think rationally and to alter themselves rationally too. Whipping someone into submission cannot ever do that; for violence and reason are never complementary.
This article will take us all over. Back to the same ageless arguments … capital/corporal punishment or not. If we agree with HH’s article then HH is against hanging for murderers and drug traffickers?
HH … such punishment is for retribution and as a deterrence. That is the legal basis for it. Perhaps its archaic but it does make some sense.
Question is do we just lock them up and talk to them nicely? I wonder … sometimes who not God just strike us down and we cannot argue with it since God is the maker.
I wanna see DSAI’s stand on this caning of Kartika. That will be a good one. Whole of Malaysia is screaming about it being unfair but what is DSAI’s stand? :0)
“Civilized” Europe invented one of the most barbaric forms of execution– Hung, Drawn and Quartered
1. Dragged on a hurdle (a wooden frame) to the place of execution
2. Hanged by the neck for a short time or until almost dead .
3. Disembowelled and emasculated and the genitalia and entrails burned before the condemned’s eyes
4. The body divided into four parts, then beheaded
Better think twice before you decide to convert.
//…Particularly after the advent of the Iranian revolution, Iranian lawmakers realised that the aim of law enforcement was not simply to exercise legitimate state violence upon citizens, but to help citizens reach their full potential as rational agents and responsible individuals.// – Farish A Noor.
I doubt the Islamic Republic of Iran is as enlightened as what they claim.
Detainees arrested after the recent post-election protests had been tortured in Iranian prisons at Evin in Tehran or at Kahrizak detention centre outside the capital.
A top judiciary official acknowledged on Saturday Aug 8th that some detainees arrested after post-election protests had been tortured in Iranian prisons, the first such acknowledgment by a senior Iranian official.
Caning of Kartika cannot be for ‘retribution’ based on concepts of approximate repayment or return suitable as recompense to any victim or victim’s family – because in Kartina’s case there is no victim in her beer drinking, except herself (if she drinks too much).
Aiyooo SpeakUp, you ar? Always like this! Why you make life so difficult for DSAI? You really put him on the spot. He see wind. Now the wind tak ten tak tu (that’s how my late father pronounced tak tentu)…. how to act? Give him some time laaa… when the wind is constant, I am sure he will make a stand… not his stand, but your stand, LOL.
Jeff … I meant retribution for going against God’s laws as what they see it. This is what some would see it. The so called Holier Than Thous.
As long as he dun stand behind me I am ok! Hahaahaahahahaaa …
Pain can sometimes be an end in itself.
limkamput derives sexual gratification through physical and emotional abuse. He said so which explains why he took to walking the streets at night.
* Kartika-drank-beer saga has put Malaysia in a spotlight about enforcement of Shariah laws in Malaysia. She is sentenced with 6 lashes, RM 5000 fine and/or 3 years imprisonment.
* The are some issues that can be brought up such as corporal punishments. Is corporal punishment still relevant at this civilized age?
* Human rights group and ultra-feminists seem to condemn corporal punishments to Kartika. I think they are not clever.
* If I were her, I’d rather take the six lashes and move on with my life. It’s not like we Malaysians haven’t experience any of the rotan lashes in childhood.
* 3 years jail time is a bit too much for me, and mentally torturous. And I can buy a brand new laptop with 5000 bucks.
* I’d take the six lashes. According to Shariah law, lashes should only be mild, not torturous. Of course there is humiliation (and so does imprisonment), but at least can recover faster and move on with life.
* Can Kartika’s kids survive with their mom 3 years behind bars? I think the lashes are far more humane.
* Then there’s another issue: interference to our personal lives by the religious police.
* Drinking a bottle of beer won’t make you drunk. But vodka and tequila surely would.
* Families are destroyed with alcohol. Many road accidents are caused by alcohol. Then there’s alcoholism. Delirium tremens. Blabla… the bad effects of alcohol.
* Some years ago, the South Korean police would leave drunk husbands who hit their wives and kids alone. Personal matter, as they quoted.
* But now, South Korea enforces its police to arrest drunk and dangerous husbands. That’s surely personal matter, but the police still have to arrest the drunkards, else that family would be severely traumatized.
* What’s putting Kartika in a spotlight is that she alone is being punished for drinking beer in Malaysia right now, as if there are no other Malaysian Muslims who drink beer.
* I don’t like to be raided by the religious police either. In fact, I question if this raid is even Islamic.
* But if you’re saying that alcohol is personal between you and God only and nobody else would be affected, you’re wrong.
http://efenem.wordpress.com
If Kartika can be lashed for drinking beer, how come Bugs Razk Bunny can get away without punishment from his affair with Altontoyo?
I have to agree with Jeffrey re Farish’s observation on Iran. Sometimes I wonder he talks through his posterior or he has an agenda re Islamic government/state.
//…Iranian lawmakers realised that the aim of law enforcement was not simply to exercise legitimate state violence upon citizens, but to help citizens reach their full potential as rational agents and responsible individuals../
Yes, my foot.
Elementary, Mr Watson. It all depends on whether you are protected by the UMNO umbrella. Doesn’t takes a genius to figure out why a guy who is alleged to have received an RM112 bribe gets a thorough MACC investigation while another who is alleged to have received a multi-million ringgit bribe gets away scotch free.
Islamic logic is something that no one without at least a PhD degree should even attempt to fathom, LOL. It is therefore beyond my ability to figure out in what way UMNO champions Islam.
the bad effects of alcohol
Extended longevity? Good times? Lower risk of stroke? Lower risk of senile dementia? Oh sure, it has bad effects too, but let’s not all jump on the ‘demon drink’ bandwagon.
Punishing people for drinking alcohol is bizarre. I imagine a possible reason for it is that it is a wilful impairment of one’s own judgement. By the same token, we should also punish people for going to bed late, falling in love, or even for fasting. Of course, the crimes commited when in a judgement-impaired state are crimes all the same (in my opinion worse if commited while wilfully judgement-impaired – it should never be an excuse).
Reason is utterly irrelevant in a religious setting. If Muslims wish to whip each other and to be whipped for drinking beer, and they appear to be otherwise sane, then I think it’s as wrong to stop them whipping each other as it is for them to come between me and my next drink. I don’t think the ‘rest of the world’ will be that easily upset by whipping – if it appears to be something that those subject to it have submitted wilfully to. Nobody but a few bitter prudes was really upset by the Max Mosley (F1 boss) revelations. If Max Mosley can do it, why not Muslims?
I’d say the huge difference is consent. Kartika appears to be consenting, so I say “why not? Don’t make the poor thing wait!”. The problem for Malaysia is that – even though this first person appears to ‘cherish’ the sentence – in general, the consent of a majority of Malaysians to whipping is never sought. Many Malaysians are put at risk of whipping purely by a government that assigns its citizens to separate streams of law based on ancestry. I think it’s this facet of the issue that will appear to the modern world to be most barbaric.
somebody start playing religious issue , use cow head to protest..
beware pakatan supporter
Agree! whipping is medieval modes of punishment of the past.
How about “haramkan penjualan arak”, Hadi said ‘arak’ is like ‘aedes’. To get rid of dengue you get rid of aedes, the same analogy applied for beer. Aedes bites without approval, arak did not get into stomach without your agreement.
Innocent beer! beer did not drunk you, your attitude make you drunk, beer is merely a convenient excuse. So, keeping beer out of reach help? Maybe? This is a way but not the way!.
You see, in order to prevent your kids from drowning. You can choose 1) Whip them if they play with water, 2) Keep them away from water, 3) Expose them with water, teach them how to swim.
This is real world, we are surrounded by lot of thing, some good some bad, no way you can isolate them out. In real world we live together with H1N1 virus and many more viruses, we learnt how to avoid from infected; can you isolate H1N1 out of real world?
Muslim who drinks beer committed offence, you can catch them, you can charge them, you can whipp them. But, beer is innocent , don’t lock them up! Please!
BTW, even you lock the beer up, no big deal compare to corruption.. so PAS still not that scary compare to Umno.
//I’d say the huge difference is consent. Kartika appears to be consenting, so I say “why not? Don’t make the poor thing wait!”.// (OrangRojak)
OrangRojak,
I don’t know anything about Kartika’s background therefore I am not able to comment on whether your stand that “Kartika should be whipped because she has given the consent for the whipping” is an appropriate one!
However, the benefit of doubts should be given to Kartika’s voicing out her consent for whipping punishment to be carried out on her because of the following reasons:
1) Kartika may not understand that an ordinary male will have to lie down with his buttock facing the roof for about two months from the day of being whipped at the buttock before getting a complete healing on the skin, bone and flesh on the buttock. She may not understand that after receiving whipping punishment, a person will not be able to fall asleep for about one or two weeks due to exceptionally unbearable pain caused by the wounds on the buttock!
2) Kartika may find it stressful and tortured to live alone in Malaysia especially when she has already used up all her money and is temporarily being released from detention on bail but is being denied from taking back her own passport! What she really wants is to get back her passport and go home as soon as possible.
3) Kartika may have suffered from paranoia after being charged to the Syariah Court! It will not be appropriate for the court to punish someone who suffered from paranoia!
SpeakUp, you must be joking. Your backside is not halal, so don’t worry. If you need insurance, I can cover you cheap cheap… premium only RM10 for every RM1,000,000 coverage. Can still discount if you take up more than RM10 million coverage, LOL.
After the caning, we will next see some stoning. Would be an interesting spectacle.
“The person who lies or slanders, for instance, would have his tongue cut out. ”
Wahhh, this one more interesting!
Kartika’s caning has been postponed to the end of the month of Ramadan. What is the reason for that? Is it an Islamic tradition not to punish but to forgive during Ramadan, the month of forgiveness, only to pursue it after that, LOL?
I got this from http://www.shelfari.com/groups/28014/discussions/67527/Ramadan-month-of-forgiveness-Why-forgive-others-during-the-Islam :
“One of the distinguishing features of Ramadan is forgiveness. Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) explained in one Hadith that Ramadan is a month whose beginning is Mercy, whose middle is Forgiveness and whose end is freedom from the Hellfire. This makes it a great time to ask Allah (SWT) for His Forgiveness. It’s also a wonderful time to open our hearts and cleanse them of grudges and bitterness by forgiving others.”
I strongly suggest that Kartika seeks God’s forgiveness and see if it’s effective enough to escape a punishment that is not mete out to others who have committed crimes many many times the gravity of what she had committed.
And sex offenders …all to become Eunuchs.
Also burn to death…if you offend Islamic religion.
I read and knew all these did happen…thousands of years ago….by cruel dictators …supported by corrupted and sex crazy religious advisers…from so many countries.
Malaysia mus have a chosen one..with many deciples…to fight this evil.
Oh monsterballssgoh, so you were the other person just now when there were 2 online users, LOL. By the way, how many members does DAP have? Looks pathetic.
Najib advised Kartika in a public message that Kartika should file an appeal to the higher Syariah Court, a court with higher rank than the Syariah High Court!
However, the deadline for filing an appeal already expired. If Kartika is to file the appeal now, will she be entertained by the higher Syariah Court? If she will be entertained even after the deadline, how is the higher Syariah Court going to maintain its integrity in the enforcement of deadline rule? If Kartika will not be entertained anymore by the higher Syariah Court, then what has it gotten to prove to Najib? Is the higher Syariah Court ready to tell Najib off that Islamic Law enforcement is none of Najib’s business because the jurisdiction of Islamic Affairs is in the hand of State Mufti, who is being appointed at the sole discretion and pleasure of the State Ruler, namely the Sultan?
Why are we making such a big hoohaa over Kartika? Out of some 17 million Muslims in Malaysia, she is the only one to offend the Syariah Law so far, so why shouldn’t we punish her? kekekekekeeeeee
Caiaphas, the chairman of the Pharisees said that it was better for one man to die, i.e. for Jesus Christ to be cruxified, than for the whole nation to be condemned.
Now it is better to cane Kartika to cover up the sins of the others.
somebody start playing religious
Wow, I’m really impressed. I’ve been in demonstrations / protests in the UK where we had thousands of participants and all we could manage was some pieces of old cardboard and marker pens for signs. Those guys are really professional – look at their signs! I think Malaysia can teach the whole world about protesting.
Also, your police are so laid back and friendly. Threatening bloodshed is obviously just hyperbole, isn’t it? In the UK the police have no sense of humour at all if you intimidate someone – on a megaphone – by promising to spill their blood. It can really ruin your day when you try to exercise some protester’s license and the next thing you know you’re being politely asked to accompany a constable to somewhere you didn’t expect to go.
Religion is between man and GOD.It’s quite personal and it’s not up to some religious elders or muftis or institutions to tell people what to do and not what to do,through rules and regulations as if they are GOD.After adam and eve,GOD told all his children to go to the four conners of the earth to multiply and eat eveything that HE had provided.GOD never said any exception ,only said what you eat or drink,do it moderately.Some religious institutions banned liqour,beer,gambling,pork/ham for its followers/members saying these stuffs are the source of trouble and death.Now if this is true,why money ,automobile,airoplane are not banned ,aren;t these not the source of trouble and death too ? The fact,they seems to ignore is that human is the root of all troubles,evils and deaths.My suggestion to these guys is don’t undone what GOD had done.
I think we have something to learn from Hinduism. The Bhagavadgita talks about man’s higher impulses struggling against evil. The greatest victory is victory over self, i.e. to conquer or control one’s own greed, hatred, and egotism. Till date, no man has fully succeeded to do that and to try to punish another person is the ultimate hypocrisy.
When you want to embrace Islam, embrace UMNO together. Then it should be fine.
While we are in the midst of chaos and troubles, God remains quiet. Sort of. We cannot hear Him with our physical ears. Ever wonder why ? Why He still allows all His children to keep playing with fire ? You want to spank her, go ahead. God will not stop you. You do not want to spank her, go ahead also. God will not stop you from not spanking her. He does not say yes. He does not say no. At the end of the day, it is between this lady and God. If there is any spanking business, a lot of people will have to be spanked including all the so called holy people. Being spanked following a set criteria is nothing compared to being stoned in Afghanistan.
ekompute….Buddha is the only man…did that…defying the Maharajahs and their holy advisers.who are corrupted…rapists and racialists..2500 years ago.
May I add..Buddha started the first hospital…treated women as equals…established the Nuns…equal to monks..and taught humans not to simple believe…making minds strong an independent.
Now compare this with UMNO…on religion…no need for me to go into details.
The canning episode is a political show……useless to comment. Let Muslims hang their heads in shame or be so proud ….Allah’s commands are almighty.
To me….this is indirectly shaming UMNO.
UMNO dare not take sides…fearing the Muslim voters will all run away.
By not stepping in and comment..Najib’s “1Malaysia” is a joke.
Strange..cow heads….he acted so fast. This canning business…no comments.
That shows…Mahathir and Najib know how to play race and religion politics…understanding the weaknesses of some Malays..,and take advantage to control their minds..with such great success.
UMNO is exposed in the 12th GE and the 7 by-elections.
They cannot change.
New style…new games thought out by Najib…starting with …con job..”1Malaysia”…trying to kill millions of birds with one stone.
Innocent students and idiots plus MCA will surely support. Once students learn to compare and reasoning…it will not work…especially for children whose parents are slogging to keep them alive and healthy.
There has been change in Iran and other parts of the world… One only hope that there is more… I read with trepidation how an Iranian student who was featured on the front page of the magazine “The Economist” during the Iranian Student Revolution of 1999 had been imprisoned and tortured inhumanely for about eight years and escaped to America… only last Spring!!!!!
In prison, he was savagely beaten and was forced to say untruthful lies such as the bloodied shirt of a fellow protester in the Economist photo was not splattered with blood, but tomato sauce!!!! Those who are imprisoned lately after the Iranian elections could be in danger of suffering inhumane treatment too?
CBSNews’ 60 minutes had an interview with Ahmad Batebi (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/03/60minutes/main4917310.shtml)
”Iran denies that it tortures prisoners. An Iranian official who did not want to be identified told 60 Minutes, “There are no types of torture used on prisoners.” Three years ago, when Iran’s judiciary admitted that torture was used to extract confessions, they had promised it would stop. But human rights groups say it has not.” From CBSNews (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/03/60minutes/main4917310_page4.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody)
The transcript of the interview “How Ahmad Batebi Survived Torture In Iran” and the video of the interview was published online on April 5, 2009. However, history repeated itself just a few weeks ago in Iran after the elections. Reports of violent treatment towards unarmed Iranian protesters reach our ears again.
However, in the same report, Hadi Ghaemi (the leader of International Campaign for Human Rights on Iran ) says: “The work of human rights defenders worldwide is made so difficult and almost impossible in holding governments like Iran accountable and shaming them as long as we have torture in places like Guantanamo.” (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/03/60minutes/main4917310_page4.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody)
In response to calls for closure of Guantanamo Bay prison, the Obama administration have been taking positive action. Reuters (verify): “The Obama administration plans to transfer six [Malaysian] prisoners abroad from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, a U.S. official said on Wednesday, part of the effort to close the controversial facility by early 2010.”
(http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-BarackObama/idUSTRE57I5ZZ20090819)
Back to question at hand, caning or no caning in Malaysia? … The answer: does violence solves matter?