Kit Siang calls MACC ‘Gestapo’, asks for controls
By Neville Spykerman | The Malaysian Insider
PETALING JAYA, Aug 15 — DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang today slammed the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) as the Gestapo for its high-handed manner in arresting political aide Wong Chuan How.
The special assistant to Selangor executive councillor Ronnie Liu for the Barisan Nasional-held Sungai Pelek constituency was injured during a scuffle with MACC officers outside his office yesterday.
Lim said the MACC officers who when to meet Wong at his service centre in Sungai Pelek had gone back on their word by trying to arrest him.
An appointment had been made earlier for Wong to meet the MACC as a witness in ongoing investigations into alleged impropriety in state allocations. But five officers turned up at the service centre said he was a suspect and wanted him to follow them to their office in Putrajaya.
“How did he become a suspect when he was previously just a witness and this shows they are not sincere in their investigations,” the Ipoh Timur MP told reporters.
In light of what happened to Teoh Beng Hock who was found dead last month at the MACC office, two lawyers with Wong insisted he lodge a police report at the Sungai Pelek police station before he followed them to Putrajaya and the MACC officers agreed.
However, three unidentified men tried to handcuff and drag Wong to their car as he walked out of his service centre.
There is no question about Wong resisting arrest because the men did not identify themselves, Lim said.
In the struggle, Wong fell to the ground and injured his right leg while struggling with the men.
Lim noted that MACC had broken their promise again and called on MACC advisory panels to rein in the MACC which seem to have even greater powers than the police.
He also pointed out that the MACC seems to be overly focus on Pakatan Rakyat while ignoring the ongoing RM12.5 billion Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ) scandal, Datuk Seri Dr Mohd Khir Toyo’s alleged RM24 million mansion and the RM10 million donation received by MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Kiat.
Wong, whose right leg was bandaged and was seen moving with the support of a walker, confirmed he did not know who the three men were and said he has no confidence in the MACC.
“The MACC is not independent and a tool which is being used by the Barisan Nasional to topple the Selangor government.” said Wong, adding he was not even found guilty yet but was treated like a criminal.
Wong’s boss Liu took the MACC officers to task for refusing to identify the three men involved in grabbing his assistant.
“I asked several officers to provide us their names but they themselves claim they did not know who they were,” Liu said, adding he did meet the men at the police station later.
Liu added there is no doubt the MACC was being selective in their prosecution.
He claimed no investigations has been done on the previous Barisan lawmakers who had spent RM500,000 in annual allocations, in just two months, prior to the March 8 general elections last year.
—————-
Wong tells his side of the story
Andrew Ong | Malaysiakini
What would a rational person do if they were grabbed by a group of unidentified individuals? Escape obviously – and that is what DAP political aide Wong Chuan How said he did.
When several Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) officers tried to arrest him yesterday, Wong put up a struggle because he was “worried for his life”.
“The tried to put handcuffs on me, but they never once said who they were and where were they taking me,” said Wong, who suffered injuries to his knee during the scuffle.
According to Wong, prior to the incident, he had reached an understanding with five MACC officers that he would not be taken to the commission’s headquarters in Putrajaya until he lodged a police report.
“I wanted to lodge a police report to prove that I was still alive at that time,” said Wong, in reference to the death of another DAP political aide Teoh Beng Hock last month in MACC’s premises.
Wong was speaking to reporters today at a press conference at the national DAP headquarters in Petaling Jaya, flanked by DAP top brass.
Yesterday morning, five MACC officers had met Wong at Sungai Pelek DAP’s service centre where he was supposed to be questioned as a witness.
‘My duty to cooperate with MACC’
However, Wong, flanked by his two lawyers, said he was stunned when the five MACC officers produced a warrant of arrest for an unspecified offence.
After some reservations, the MACC officers allowed Wong to lodge a police report before being taken to the commission’s headquarters, but upon stepping out of the building, several men in plain clothes tried to put handcuffs on Wong.
Wong was heard shouting, “I want my life, I don’t want to die” during the melee where he was grabbed from behind by an unidentified MACC officer, before the 50-year-old fell and injured his knee.
Three X-rays were subsequently performed at the Sedang hospital. He was discharged at about 10pm last night, after his wife posted a RM3,000 bail to the MACC.
Despite the drama, Wong said he will still cooperate with the MACC because it was his responsibility to do so as an aide to Selangor exco member Ronnie Liu.
He appealed to the MACC to be “less hostile” in the future to other suspects or witnesses, adding that even criminals should be treated humanely.
‘MACC akin to gestapo’
Wong is believed to be investigated over irregularities in the use of state funds in the BN-held Sungai Pelek constituency.
DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang (left) was incensed with the MACC for going against their word twice during the episode yesterday and likened their conduct to “gangsters and gestapo”.
He said there was no need to use force on Wong when he had already agreed to surrender himself after lodging a police report.
He also chided MACC for the need to arrest Wong, without prior investigations.
“Did they arrest anyone in the RM12 billion Port Klang Free Zone scandal? What about Khir Toyo’s RM24 million mansion?… Do they have the power to arrest anyone based solely on suspicion, and thus create terror?” he asked.
Meanwhile, Wong’s employer Ronnie Liu said there was no excuse for the plainclothes MACC officers for not identifying themselves to Wong.
“Even the FRU (riot police) wear their identifications now. Why should MACC officers be an exception?” he asked.
He added that during the last state exco meeting, it was decided that the MACC would only be allowed to have copies of state assemblyperson’s expenditure and not the originals.
“This is to prevent possible tampering,” said Liu.
MACC denies pushing Wong
MACC, in a statement yesterday, denied that force was used against Wong.
“Our officers served the notice of arrest under Section 53(3) of MACC Act 2009 on Wong.
“The officers also explained the notice to Wong and requested him to sign it but he refused,” the statement said.
Wong was escorted to the MACC car which was parked outside the premises.
At this juncture, he refused to get into the car and walked away but the officers tried to stop him and insisted that he got into the car.
“He then fell to the ground by himself at this point,” the statement said.
The MACC officers had lodged a counter police report.
Of course he tried to handcuff himself and then he intentionally fell and landed on his own knees. No one pushed him. Ask nazri. He knew all about it even before the whole thing took place.
It is now clear that najib is going for max damage infliction upon pakatan. His strategy is this. Never mind if umno and bn are buried deep in shet, just focus on bringing pakatan down anyhow by any which way.
Umno is growing more desperate than I had anticipated. Is the end of umno near?
Kit Siang calls MACC ‘Gestapo’, I called them Rottweilers.
Nazri is an exemplary Muslim. I don’t believe he tells lies, LOL.
Nowaday, it is very disgusting to see the word “MACC”.
They digging a grave for BN/UMNO.
Let’s be frank, there are two stories and I think both are fabricating to a certain extent. Both are playing games.
Why does Wong need to shout that he wants his life? Its melodramatic. He was served the warrant of arrest, there is nothing he can do. Yes MACC are probably being VERY high handed but what Wong is doing is only causing more problems for everyone.
Wong should not need to lodge any pondan style police report as he would be in MACC custody if he died. If he was arrested by unidentified officers he should SUE their ass off! Teach them a lesson. Make them bankrupt!!!
MACC was said to be better than ICAC of Hong Kong. We now know that it was intended to be utilised to bring down state governments not under BN control. That is the reason why MACC had to be more powerful that ICAC which deals with ordinary citizens.
When the court is under the control of government, accused do not fall to their death. Many suspects die in police custody; they had to answer for the alleged crimes. But MACC has gone a step further. Anybody who is expected to have information, or can be made used of to facilitate trump up charges cannot resist from giving cooperation. They can be arrested for refusing to give information, rather than for being suspect of criminal activities. MACC is now more powerful than the police in terms getting people into custody. Malaysia is not a police state; it is worse than that.
I think we should look at this MACC thing as over zealous of wanting to harass the opposition. Any other view is a nincompoop’s view which we find plenty here, like for example the views expressed by SpeakUp@monsterball above. The problem with a nincompoop is sometimes he does not know what he was talking. Sometimes he was just asked to say things that he does not understand.
I guess some people do not understand about laws on arrest and the required procedures. If arrest without identification and stating reasons it’s wrongful arrest whereby the person wrongfully arrested can sue with ease since like Wong is saying it’s wrongful. Remember the ISA detainee who was wrongfully detained? the court awarded him a very handsome amount for damages. Like LGE says, sue them all! We don’t need Indian movie. Hit them where it hurts
It would not be so easy to sue the ass off MACC officers when they are purportedly carrying out their duties because the MACC Act grants them immunity unless one could prove – and it is not easy to prove – that they have acted not in ” good faith”, whatever that means…
///….If arrest without identification and stating reasons it’s wrongful arrest…///
Yeah it is mentioned above – “However, Wong, flanked by his two lawyers, said he was stunned when the five MACC officers produced a warrant of arrest for an unspecified offence.”
An unspecified offence???
When arresting they need to produce a kind of “Notice of arrest” which shall be explained to the person to be arrested to the following effect:-
“You have been arrested/informed that you may be prosecuted for [ ] … (the possible offence under this Act).
Do you wish to say anything? If there is any fact on which you intend to rely in your defence in court, you are advised to mention it now. If you hold it back till you go to court, your evidence may be less likely to be believed and this may have a bad effect on your case in general. If you wish to mention any fact now, and you would like it written down, this will be done”.
Was the part in [ ] … (the possible offence under this Act) filled up and shown to Wong??
MACC has got the 007 license from UMNO to do as it likes, even to kill.
Why keep slamming the Jews for being inhuman when the MACC officers are just the same.
There is something racial about the whole thing here.
MACC officers are like wild boars, hyenas and raw meat eaters.
Speakup seems to be improved version of undergrad2
I wonder how much Najib pays the cybertroppers here.
Beware of UMNO/BN’s fiery darts, more legalized gangster-like institutions will spring up in attempts to harass and intimidate the Opposition parties.
MACC =MA44= MA die die and what is next?
//He was discharged at about 10pm last night, after his wife posted a RM3,000 bail to the MACC.
//
Why bail to MACC ? Who actually issued the warrant of arrest?
pw: pretence $914.7-billion
Off topic… this post is addressed to Loh. Loh, thanks for your clarification. I added something to the thread at Principled Politics: http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/12/principled-politics/#comments
MACC above the law, ISA above the law, and Federal Justice Mohd Suffian Mohd Hashim saying, “Even if the Enactment is contrary to the Constitution, the Enactment is not void.” Why do we still need the Constitution and the laws then? Better we operate by the law of the jungle.
DAP man.
Phark! You got it spot on. MACC is licensed to kill.
There is one thing though. MACC is one up on the double “O” seven agent. MACC can kill and call it suicide.
Yes in Bolehland we have the Hilter Najis, with his deputy Mussoliniyiddin, the Najis propaganda Minister Goebels Rais and the Gestapo MACC thugs to send the Pakatan into the gas chambers.
Last time they use ISA, now they use MACC. Looks like a slight improvement…. I mean no one has died under ISA (or has there?), but MACC has already one death in its premises in such a short period.
Thank You MACC for acting, as you have proven beyond any doubt that you are biased and a running dog for BN.
‘When arresting they need to produce a kind of “Notice of arrest” which shall be explained to the person to be arrested to the following effect:-
“You have been arrested/informed that you may be prosecuted for [ ] … (the possible offence under this Act). ‘ (Jeffrey)
Jeffrey,
I think you have been holding an over-optimistic view about the professionalism of the security enforcement units of Malaysia such as the Police Force or the MACC.
Let me tell you how I was being arrested many years’ ago.
The police constable just told me this:
“You are under arrest… under ISA!”
“You don’t try to run away! Otherwise, I will shoot you!”
I was detained under the ISA for 44 days. The reason for such a long detention was that the Bukit Aman police had not decided on what to charge me in court!
Of course, I was being prosecuted after being released from the ISA detention. However, the court legal proceeding was delayed for six years. I guess the long delay was because I refused to pay the prosecuting officer any single cent. The case had to be granted an acquittal by court because the prosecution side had difficulty to locate the witness after six years’ delay, and further lingering would likely cause a waste on the tax-payers’ money. This is Malaysia! Sometimes if you are unlucky, you will be set up by some dirty corrupted police officers. Sometimes if you are being blessed by God, you would also be able to find a judicial judge who would drop judgement in your favour!
It is completely accurate to call MACC Umno’s Gestapo now. They are in charge of fabricating evidence against PR politicians to try to bring down Selangor.
The MACC dogs don’t even pretend to investigate corruption. They are nothing but a pile of smelly rubbish in the eyes of the public.
Umnoputras and the Utusans are becoming insane with KJ and his goons launching a serious attack in Shah Alam last night.
Now with the Gestapo and SS in their hands, what other things they wouldn’t do ?
Be prepared for a long battle.
MACC’s selective prosecution is damaging its credibility. Why they interrogated Tiong King Sing for 6 hours but did not interrogate Ong Tee Keat?
Shouldn’t Ong Tee Keat be interrogated first as the taker of bribes is deemed to have committed a bigger crime than the giver of bribes?
I bet MACC is being controlled by the ruling regime.
Need it be said? LOL
uncle lim keep bark to health minister about H1N1 case..
but why pakatan state government not start do something ? should compulsory all people must wear mask at all close area, mall, cinema ..
MACC is better than the ICAC in Hong Kong, in persecuting the Opposition but leaving all the big sharks for PKFZ and Khir Toyo. For that, they deserve the UMNO medal of honour.
The way the Umnoputras and the Utusans are going, the country is heading for instability.
This is what they are hoping to achieve and declare emergency in order to perpetuate their rule.
Is the PR prepared for this eventuality ?
Tiong now said it’s a donation to MCA
RM10 million in CASH
100,000 RM100 notes
Malaysian Anti Corruption Commission or MACC should be neutral and should not be implicated in any case like the death of Teoh Beng Hock. It is painting a bad picture of itself. May be the correct objectives should be hammered deeply into its’ organization so that it will know how to act right. Malaysians are more alert now. Therefore those in authorities should not think that they are the Almighty ones.
Truth be said, MACC is a laughing stock and a bad joke. Now we know why ACA was so “ineffective”. Who can they catch at that time when they are not allowed to catch BN politicians? The way MACC go at PR politicians, you know that they are no better than those samsengs.
Mana dia dapat so much salary to pay for private jet expenses? Next, he will say I will page Tiong 10 million out of my own pocket?
>Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat’s office says he will personally honour all payments for flights he took on the private jets owned by a company linked to the Port Klang Free Zone scandal
Carboncopy … I am paid so so much. You can’t believe it.
What I meant is those who were unidentified BUT again with a warrant and already being so called taken by the first group there may be no need to state the arrest as he has already been arrested.
What brainless Ministers we have in Malaysia! Can’t afford private plane, sit for what? And why do you need to waste money on private jets when your backside is no more than 18 inches across? Would you charter one bus to sit? Errrr, maybe… if it is a flying bus, LOL.
ekompute … why did he take the flight? Simple … here are the reasons:
i. they are good friends;
ii. OTK is like a jakun, opportunity to sit on a private jet, its a new experience and this comes because he is a Minister;
iii. OTK is MCA big boss, he enjoys the position and loves the lifestyle that he watches on TV.
So you see, enjoying the so called PERKS that comes with the job is killing him now. Good for him. Such an idi0t …
How much does a Minister make? How much in RM is USD40K? Let’s see him cough it up.
Don’t underestimate Ds Tiong, he knows what he is doing. He is hurting OTK in so many ways:
i. financially, because he knows OTK HAS to personally pay for the trip since he cannot claim it under the Ministry;
ii. politically with the public, now the public is wondering why the heck is this OTK enjoying such perks;
iii. politically with MCA, MCA will now ask, did OTK pass over RM10M in cash to MCA itself;
DS Tiong is no fool. Not one bit. Now Wee Ka Siong is also named. DR Tiong is showing them all that they should not ‘f’ with him. How nice …
Let’s remember donating RM10M is not an offense and giving rides are not one too. But the underlying implications are dire when its revealed. Basically, DR Tiong has a little black book, he is opening it VERY slowly.
*************************************************
Rakyat Malaysia tidak akan ‘crying for them’..
tetapi Rakyat Malaysia cuma mampu..”crying for
Malaysia..” .Setiap hari setiap saat yang berlaku
kini..tidak pernah tidak membuatkan insan
yang mulia-suci terasa..terhiba..terpilu..kerana
Akal-Minda yang amat berselisih.dari segi segala
gaya pemikirannya…! Bilakah Negara
tercintaku..insaf-faham benar-benar berusaha
kembali ke landasan benar..realiti dan mulia
sebagai insan terdidik..termulia..terhormat..
supaya bersatu-hati bersatu-jiwa ingin mencapai
sebuah negara yang disanjungi.. dihormati…
dicontohi… di mata dunia…..kerana atas
satu ikrar satu amanah..kepada Anak-anak
Malaysia yang amat bertuah di tanahair ibu-pertiwi
Malaysiaku tercinta demi Satu Harapan Satu Impian
Satu Malaysia…!
Count on us..Malaysia…! We want achieve..We can
achieve..One Malaysia…! May God Bless..
One Happiness One United Malaysia!
****************************************************
I have read much about Nazi and Hitler and you give them to much credit. They may be ‘Gestapo-like’ but they are no Gestapo. The Gestapo were highly efficient with little conscience or emotion. They don’t let things get out of control. MACC make be brutul but they get emotional.. They are not in the same class. Najib’s ‘iron hand’ is pig iron essentially brittle and soft inside like the man..
If I were Najib and I wanted to be like Hitler, I would not be focussing on this. I have a bigger problem – PKFZ is going to bite even bigger because the trails leads to UMNO.. Rural Malays may forgive Najib for being cruel to non-Malays BUT they won’t forgive UMNO for being corrupt. If OKT and MCA got $10mil from a multiple billion ringgit project, UMNO share is likely to easily be $100mil or more. That is typically how it works and that bites a whole lot more than getting the credits for beating the non-Malays and ‘traitor’ Malays..
He got it all wrong and is a screw up..
To you nincompoops out there. Before you talk too much, please bear in mind this: in law we must abide given our present circumstance. But if in law you hope for fair play and justice, you must be a nincompoop like this SpeakUp@monsterball. In Malaysia, laws and institutions have long gone to serve justice. Those who still can’t see it must admit they are nincompoops. Even our in house mighty constitutionalist (Jeffrey) is talking about the law of jungle now.
Politics=power, and power needs to be purchased using Money. The politicians need money to secure their position. But all these money come from the people. We don’t know how much of those money are floating around for vote buying, at different levels. These are the BLACK MONEY
MACC knows DAP is an easier target then PKR or PAS. They tried this stunt with a PKR MP but she stood up to MACC and called reporters. DAp member need to stop being so cooperative. They need to stand together and insure every move made made MACC has the appropriate warrant and not let them search your centers without warrant.
Encrpt every file , every electronic transmission. Insure strict tracking and third party audit on your accounts. Why not get P&G to do an audit on all DAP MP spending so MACC has no leg to stand on.
///Even our in house mighty constitutionalist (Jeffrey) is talking about the law of jungle now./// Lim Kam Put
In order that my position be not misrepresented, I’d like to clarify the following:
The Law of the Jungle” is an expression (popularised by author Rudyard Kipling in his work, The Jungle Book . It is law code used by wolves and other animals in the jungles of India. It is often to mean “survival of the strongest/fittest. Taken to its logical end, it means “every man for himself” or “eat or be eaten” (a phrase popularised in Elton John’s song, Circle if Life)!
However if every man is for himself in a milieu of eat or be eaten, any sociologist will say there cannot survive a social organisation, a society. There will be chaos, and civilisation cannot develop or taken to next stage. Hence the need for enactment and enforcement of laws – not of the jungle kind but man made, whether from the hallowed chambers of Parliament or the private studies of dictators or clergymen.
Necessarily, the second cateogry of Man-Make laws in relation to which no man, no matter his social status, is above – and which objective is to treat all equally and aims to do justice according to law – act not only as an instrument of social order but also represent an aspiration towards which all are supposed to uphold.
By definition an aspiration means a strong desire for high achievement, a desired objective, an ambition….
For aspiration of Man Make Laws (to do justice and treat all equally) to be attained, it depends on the calibre and character or even morals of the people administering the laws, whether as lawyers arguing them, prosecutors deciding whether to charge or not charge, and most important the judges interpreting the laws. I call them the “Legal Guys”.
So whether Man Make Laws attain their objective depends on the type of Legal Guys in the game – whether they know the law but more important whether they have justice and fairness in their hearts, which in turn is influenced by human nature, their upbringing inculcated or internalized moral values.
Where the Legal Guys are Ok, the Man Make laws attain their aspiration; where they are not OK (in the sense that they bow to power and personal gain or political bias), then the first Law of the Jungle will rule and laws and Courts become a disappointment. So it really depends on the Legal Guys and the type of Society, and whether laws attain their objective becomes “situational” depending who’s on the stage at that moment.
The fact that in a given society the Law of the Jungle prevails more often than the Rule of Law – and the Rule of Law becomes subservient to the first Jungle Law – is, of course, no reason for the denigration of Man Make laws.
For – no matter how unfairly the Man Make Laws are interpreted, administered and enforced by the Powerful and Rich – the Man Make Laws are still the only hope, and shield the multitudes, who are powerless and disenfranchised, have against the more flagrant assertion of the Law of the Jungle.
For this reason just because I have explained in this or that situation (eg arrest of Matek anak Geram) the law of the Jungle applies and always applies does not mean that I advocate the opposite ie the abandonment of Man Make Laws, that they are of no relevance, and we should not be concerned with
them – for no matter, how we perceive Man-Made laws are unfairly administered or Courts are bias, we still have to respect the laws, operate and leverage within their constraints and fight the unfair and powerful men who are controlling and enforcing them.
Otherwise there is no benchmark, and the only alternative (to leveraging on Man Make Laws) is to go to the streets and fight (in full fledge law of the Jungle) and be faster clobbered and killed by the Powerful and the Rich.
Yes we are kaput now. When most of the advisers and commissioners who oversee MACC don’t appear to be interested to do their jobs or appear to be impotent, then all is lost. MACC has become Frankenstein on the lose.
2009 UPSR arithmatic Q [under embargo at the moment, OSA]:
1. A corrupted politician received RM10 million and then paid out RM150,000 for expenses incurred.
Did he untung or tak untung?
If former, by how much?
2. A playboy minister had X C4 plastic explosives. He used two to blow a Mangalian beauty to kingdom come. He still had 7 C4 left.
What is X?
So much have been targeted at MACC and MACC has defense themselves as fair and transparent.
But, let look at some facts. It did not go too far, just look at how ACA/MACC take on PKFZ.
Let not talk about report lodged by DAP man Ronnie Liu as MACC may think he is political motivated on PKFZ. But what happen on the disclosure by the reporter from the SUn, Mr Nades on PKFZ. He even challenge ACA then to take on him and he can provide all documented evidence but nothing as seem Nades is non existence. Now, what has happened after such a long years, only form 30 men task force to investigate. MACC, give us an satisfactory answer why did not you act when Nades start disclosed on the possible wrong doing in PKFZ project but only now ? So how you can act swiftly on PR when ever there is slight noise here and that? Why can you see it fit to interrogate day and night on just a supposed witness? Why you see fit to handcuff a political aid ? When you see fit to let PKFZ with possibility of billions corruption and ABUSED OF POWER, to slip off your hand? Why was it no urgency to act and handcuffed? Was it because he carry with political link allied to you? Was it because he have not get a green light from the highest level?
MACC, SHAME ON YOU. You are agency to rid off corruption and abuse of POWER, but you are the agency who abused your power to the full limit. It was only exist in Malaysia, and carry out your duties with full open broad day light .
Can’t you MACC understand the shamefulness that you have shown the world.
MACC,you are agency that are sick and with all psycho officers who willingly to lick the xxx of your master.
VERY shame on you MACC.
Actually, MACC is the puppet. They are good for nothing axcept that being manupulated by someone behind.
What happen to the case of PKFZ,Khir-land, Ong vs Tiong case ? Why are they all out to interrogating DAP/PKR aides ?
If they want to side on BN, don’t do it such as obvious way. Even the blinds know that.
The older they are, the faster they die. umno, like Japan’s LDP has 1 foot in the grave.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6797783.ece
(1) The idea of the law, its aims, the need to abide by it or work within it (ie Sanctity of Law) is a thing apart from (2) the legal guys who administer or interpret it.
Just because the legal guys who administer or interpret it in (2) are bias resulting in the law being administered unfairly to our disappointment, it is wise that we decide to give up on the very notion of Sanctity of Law in (1) itself or to flout it?
Not unless you are Mahatma Ghandi and could mobilise a mass civil disobedience movement and even then it because there are other developments conspiring to facilitate Ghandi’s objectives – ie the British’s political decision, in the aftermath of World War II to decolonise most of her colonies.. in part due to her depleted condition and also no small part pressure from the Americans who having played dominant role in victory of the so called “Free world” wanted to assume the mantle of No. 1 in supercession of “Great” Britain. Arguably if these factors were not in play, Ghandi could have been locked up for good like Myanmar’s Aung San Suu Kyi and his movement fizzled out!
///For – no matter how unfairly the Man Make Laws are interpreted, administered and enforced by the Powerful and Rich – the Man Make Laws are still the only hope, and shield the multitudes, who are powerless and disenfranchised, have against the more flagrant assertion of the Law of the Jungle. ///– Jeffrey
I have to disagree. Secret societies are the example of Law of the Jungle among human beings, they are not as bad as secret society organised at the scale of the federal government. When the government administers through the rule by law, they are behaving just like the legalised secret society.
In jungle animals are concerned about satisfying their needs. Once the needs are satisfied, they kill no more. But human greed are insatiable desires. They kill more than to satisfy their needs.
I agree with Limkamput that we outwardly have Law but just for the favor of some powerful group. They talk about Law when the Law favor them, when the situation dont favor them, they use force. And the force is above the Law that No One shall question Even God lah. Baiscally, the bird is in their hands, when you say alive, they Cekik the bird; when you say dead, they Dont Cekik lah. These are the situation here, and I believe at least 13 millions malaysians realise this, the rest are you know under which group lah.
Those who still can say WE HAVE LAW THAT IS JUSTICE, please lah, you still very naive (sorry to say that folks, i terpaksa lah to WAKE YOU UP BEFORE TOO LATE, like i have been cheated for 40 years, dont you think is enough). You still do not realize the case of Teoh, what else you want after so many things happen and some people try to cover up and some people still believe the shit…..pity lah. The chinese saying, ” the needles must pinch on you then only you feel pain”, you try to be Teoh and I say VERY FAIR TO YOU THAT YOU COMMIT SUICIDE. How would you feel friends, PLEASE WAKE UP LAH, YOU ALL EAT TOO MUCH BN brand Mc Donald, KFC, Nasi Lemak, newspaper, Durian etc that having mental BLOCK. You need Penawar lah…Ask your God to help you OPEN your blocked mind.
Sorry to offend some of you. I really tak tahan lah..
thanks.
Mongolian girl – TBH, who is next ???
Todays media reports – MACC director of investigations has suggested that all investigations involving politics be suspended temporarily with immediate effect .
“The very people who talk about wanting to fight corruption themselves are creating all the problems. Their action in barring their employees from assisting us or coming to the MACC office as well as announcing to the world their people are being investigated and highlighting them in the media is hampering our investigations,’’ Datuk Mohd Shukri Abdul, MACC’s director of investigations said.
Mohd Shukri claimed that whatever the MACC did was not right in the eyes of certain political parties who kept on accusing the MACC of conspiring with the Government or were being biased and selective in their investigation.
Ask them lah whether in light of the “immediate effect” statement of its director of investigation, the MACC is now going to stop or suspend investigating special assistant to Selangor executive councillor Ronnie Liu, Wong Chuan How???
See – http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/15/kit-siang-calls-macc-%e2%80%98gestapo%e2%80%99-asks-for-controls/comment-page-1/#comment-189848
Jeff … I need to read more books. I always enjoyed watching the cartoon of The Jungle Book. I guess books are better. :)
Well said, Jeffrey. But I would like to debate further the following points.
I think it is beyond the legal guys. I believe, everyone one of us have some sense of justice in our hearts, including the wicked one (in case you misunderstood me, even a wicked one would like to see justice done to others so long as it does not affect him adversely). So, I believe the law of jungle is not really due to our lack of sense of justice. It is more like they are prevented from doing so, having now served as an instrument or apparatus to political masters. There is saying “all roads lead to Rome”. In Malaysia, all problems, be it MACC, Police, PKFZ, ISA, lead to the apex of our leadership. It really depends on how those in the apex leadership look at themselves – as an instrument to further the greater good of society or as a mechanism to sustain and reinforce the power for their own preservation and sustenance.
Now, throughout history, while occasionally people of extra-ordinary moral standard would come along to do for the greater good of society, most sadly are not so. That is why governments every where must be circumscribed.
You mentioned aptly about the law of jungle and how sociologists would say that such law can not lead to sustainable organization and society. I agree with your observation and now let me ask you whether the “government system” we have today is sufficiently circumscribed in order to retain its sustainability. To me it is not, but if you think it is, may I know how and what need to be done to reinforce it?
In order to make myself clear, I did not say that we should not follow the laws as enacted. What I am concerned with is by following the laws, would our society become better? By following the laws would our society achieve the desire change that most of craving for? Change here refers to a society that is more open, fair, and transparent where all institutions of governments play their role strictly and professionally, no fear and favour.
Of course it is beyond legal guys extending way to the Powerful seeking to control the laws and legal guys but who ultimately controls the Powerful by virtue of their political positions?
The expression “all roads lead to Rome” means in our context all roads lead to majority voters in a given society.
If they keep on supporting and voting in thiefs and rabble rousers of race and religion, and if those who advocate transcending race and religion in the interests of nation and common humanity are at best denied of votes and worse accused of insulting relgion and breaching Social Contract why is there to say (except the people get the government they deserve)?
Blame Law or Democracy (one man one vote system oppressing the minority)?
Which is why the belief is that better results are obtained if one educates people from bottom exerting pressure upwards rather than top down? Thats why people discourse, make contributions in blogs like this, write to Online (not manacled by printing press Publications Act), participate in public seminars, fight tooth and nail for the principle of Freedom of speech (all in order to help educate the broader masses and broader/majority vote bank). Whether this has helped in our Malaysian Context is debateable though.
This is exactly why Malaysia’s education system is getting from bad to worse. They keep lowering the standard so that everyone gets a paper qualification even after learning nothing. Nowadays, most Malaysians don’t know English so that we can remain a katak di bawah tempurung, effectively cutting off from the rest of the world. Open the internet and the only websites they can visit are those written in Bahasa Malaysia or Bahasa Indonesia. The more educated the people becomes, the faster UMNO has to go, LOL.
Are democracy and all its attributes depending on election only, although I agree that we should educate our people to make them more aware of their right and exercise their voting power more prudently?
Off topic… Limkamput, message at “DAP does not insult Islam” waiting for your response.
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/15/dap-does-not-insult-islam/#comments
I think PM NR must put a stop to further arrest of more DAP aides.The MACC is nothing but a hound dog.The real culprit is NR. Oh come on Mr Prime Minister,please be fair to all,why don’t you order the MACC to arrest your own people also. Every body knows,most of your ybs and other closed aides of yours have involved in many illegal and corrupted dealings,yet there’s hardly any arrest.You cannot fool the people but youself only.The voters are smart now,if you don’t stop this nonsense arrest of DAP and PR aides,you and your Umno/Bn friends will be become history comes the 13th GE.
Democracy is an ideal that was invented by the Athenians. But give it to monkeys and they play monkey tricks. They do gerrymandering, vote-rigging, vote-buying, and all the tricks that they can think of. In reality, democracy is actually aristocracy and the candidates that are put up are almost always the same few people. Even banana republics practise “democracy”. Look at Myanmar. When they lose, what do they do? They put the winner under perpetual house arrest. Maybe UMNO, knowing that they are likely to lose, should send a delegation ahead of the 13th general election, LOL.
CORRECTION: Maybe UMNO, knowing that they are likely to lose, should send a delegation to Myanmar ahead of the 13th general election, LOL.
In the Philippines, “To get rich is Gloria”
In bolehland, “To get back Selangor is MACC”
Malaysia is going to the dogs. There is complete lawlessness as we can see now and this, of all people, is exacerbated by the very people whose job is to ensure justice, law and order. Public confidence in the government, the police, and the courts, is at an all time low. Despite everything that Najib has tried to do, things are getting from bad to worse and the recent use of MACC as an UMNO weapon seems to be a sign of his utter desperation.
Well, what goes up must come down and UMNO’s 50-odd years of hegemony must inevitably come to an end. We can’t blame Najib if UMNO goes kaput because this is the way it is. He is the last UMNO Prime Minister, as prophesied by the RAHMAN Prophesy. What UMNO should do now is to quickly send a delegation to Myanmar to learn from those monkeys how to sabotage democracy so that they can continue to govern, irrespective of the results of the 13th general election, LOL.
Hi ekompute wait a second ” despite everything that Najib has tried to do ” to do what ? I think everything he does has an evil agenda,a kind of destroying his main political foes ie PR. At the same some covering up and protecting all illegal and corrupt activiies for his BN closed aides and friends.These are the core causes why things are getting from bad to worst like you said.
Hahaha… that is the problem with we people. The bad things we see instantly, the good things, we don’t. Well, at least he did attempt to come out with 1Malaysia, and he did try to make it work… and we (meaning yours truly too as in http://malaysian-politics.dummipedia.org/Blog:1Malaysia ) run him down. He is relaxing some scrotums, oppphhhs, quotums, opphhhs, quota in public universities, he joins some morning exercises at Stadium Merdeka or whatever and someone points to the crack in the plywood 1Malaysia logo that to me is so childish. But LKS did find it amusing enough to put it as an article in this blog. Wait until someone does that to him when he becomes the government and we will see how he feels about those childishness, LOL.
It gives me comfort to read what RPK wrote “How they prostitute Islam for political gains”. RPK hit the nail in the head on their selective harrassment of PKR and DAP.
If only they know that Msians all over are viewing their actions with utter disgust. We wish you all at PKR and DAP every success and the best for the future.
I often wonder whether politics and religion can go hand in hand…
In theory, it should. Religion should provide the necessary value system to guide politics, a potentially dirty sphere of human endeavor, but still a necessary evil. In reality, however, religion, and by extension, God, ended up being made use of by politics, LOL. So who is the real God when one combines religion with politics?
Sorry, incomplete….
I often wonder whether politics and religion can go hand in hand…
In theory, it should. Religion should provide the necessary value system to guide politics, a potentially dirty sphere of human endeavor, but still a necessary evil. In reality, however, religion, and by extension, God, ended up being made use of by politics, LOL. So who is the real God when one combines religion with politics? The God of politics or the God of religion?
ekompute, you have forgotten the Money God?
It is known by different names by different people. Sometimes He is unnamed but plays the most important influence in people’s lives.
For the Chinese a famous God of wealth is Tsai Shen Yeh aka Lu Shing. This God sits in the entraces to many Chinese houses. This vantage positioning helps to re-route wealth and prosperity into the houses and its occupants.
The Money God is very powerful. Reverance of Him is not always due to crass desire for greed, ostentiousness and good living.
He plays on one’s honour. Hence (for example) a girl may do an unhonourable – and many say immoral – sex work (prostitution) – to earn money to pay ) not for high living and material things) but for the bills of paying for poor aged parents’ medical bills or siblings education.
In a word, do an immoral and unhonourable job for a moral and honourable Cause.
So the Money God does not only leverage on your baser and selfish instincts for aggrandizement and showing off. He leaves you helpless when He catches you
you by the Balls to do His bidding for the Honourable thing.
DON’T WORRY YE OLO MEN
Good trick! Bang hard on DAP, then say all investigations involving politics be suspended temporarily with immediate effect, as if it is like doing the Opposition a favor. No wonder BN politicians can sleep soundly with immediate effect. Mohd Shukri should tell us the progress of the multi-billion PKFZ scandal… that is if he has done anything at all.
Com’on, I am not so stupid to fall into MACC’s tricks. ‘Em monkeys just do their work conscientiously… oppphs, this people have no conscience, let me find a better word… do your work according to what is prescribed in your job description, that should suffice…. you are in the civil service, not the UMNO political party. And let God (if you believe in any) be your guide.
Them monkeys are real monkeys. Their work should not be partisan, but they don’t know where they stand. Or rather, they know where they stand, LOL. Just wag your tail when you see your masters, otherwise you won’t be a dog tomorrow.
What can we expect, when MCAA is stuffed with Celaka goons and samsengs similiar products like those in Permuda UMNO….
uneducated and kurang ajar goons to control corruptions????
A#se wiping, perhaps. These are the Ketuanan Me-la-yu that UMNO boasts so much about….puiiiit!!!
MACC should be revamped and the whole department contracted out to Singapore or HK.
Ekompute wrote:
// The God of politics or the God of religion?//
here is the answer:-
http://politics-mission.blogspot.com/
pw: wolfed absolutely
Dear SpeakUp:
As your login suggests, I would like to hear what your opinion is about this matter of MACC and their unlawful ways. I would like to hear you say something useful other that the bile you have been spouting on this site.
It is now time for you to really speak up (pun intended) and align with what is the rightful side. You chose a justice-type login so lets hear you.
Even a BN sympathizer knows the difference between right and wrong. Forget politics. Tell us if there is anything positive here you can say about your stance other that you are going to read “Jungle Book”. If that is the best you can do, please do not feel slighted when I inform you that my 4 year old daughter reads Jungle Book and she knows that hurting people is wrong no matter who you are. In case you did not get that, I am telling you that a child knows the difference and apparently you may not.
No-Money-Politics … from your comments in the last para it would seem that I have no sense of the fact that hurting someone is wrong? I am pretty amazed how you came to this.
Read my posting carefully, did I say that the MACC was not wrong? When did I say that? The fact is simple … MACC was high handed and that is a fact BUT then our friend is also trying to create a Bollywood movie for some political mileage. That is also a fact.
When will all this senseless nonsense end?
I have spoken once before when it can end. When PR learns to work as ONE. When ar5es like Wee Choo Keong stop their nonsense, when people like DSAI learn that they have been elected to serve the people, when some people here learn that we are not here to OVERTHROW but here to seek changes for the betterment of the nation. Too many in Malaysian politics are too filled with hatred, the same hatred that will corrupt.
So pray tell, what else you wish for me to speak up about? You may list it one by one and I shall be willing to let you know my opinion.
Sympathised with what Wong went through but not as bad as I went through in private sector by an employer schemed devious ways to get rid of me.
Imagined being surprised at a very last minute and forced to undergo unnecessary medical check that include highly risky full body CT scan, probably hoping to induce whatever benign inside me into something malignant and conveniently board me out. And best of all the private hospital went along with it just because the one footing the bill was a big paying institution.
Dont see why a visual problem requires such scan when other specialists (private and Govt) already gave the clear and the problem was managable. Its like a ‘surreal genocide’ attempt on me.
Seems that corruption not limited by those the Govt.
Any advise where I can seek help? PKR? BN? MACC? MUFC?
silversurfer … its an employment issue. Unless your employment has been ‘compromised’ (sacked, demoted, transferred etc) nothing you can do at the moment. You cannot be forced to go through a CT scan. Not if you have a mere growth only. AH1N1 then they can force you to get treatment la, that would be reasonable.
bro SpeakUp … I wished it was but that was one of many incidences including once where some at the helm of authority would even use faith and race as reasons I’m not qualified to apply for added benefit when it was improved during a revision. And when it came to promotion exercise, you got run down on poor command of English (and that has always been the flavor used) but those who would most likely make Queen Victoria roll in her grave, bagged it.
Then you observed certain common factors/patterns on those who gets and those who can only watch from the sidelines. You cant help thinking that it was more to do with bigotry and being spiteful at the same time.
Like to know how you feel when lying in a hospital bed trying to recover from an emergency lung puncture, your immediate superior arrived unannounced with colleagues in fair mix of races (each are not close to the other and to me) and in front of your wife and all to hear (plus the sick guy in the next bed), to be mockingly told that the Head finds that you can’t be doing the job anymore. That was rather audacious, arrogant but yet he dared as if he knew he is well protected. Maybe the company now so brazen enough make a new policy to treat certain type of staff like me this way.
There seem to be a lot of bad sentiment being thrown around nowadays and its encompassing every level of society.
So does racial, bigotry, abuse of power exist in the public sector solely but not the in private sector?