I am disappointed by the Cabinet decision on the mysterious death of Teoh Beng Hock.
There will be no Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes of Teoh’s death although an inquest would be held.
A Royal Commission of Inquiry will be set up, but only to look into the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission’s (MACC) investigative procedures and to determine if there were any human right violations when Teoh Beng Hock was being interrogated.
This falls short of public expectations and is unsatisfactory and unacceptable.
What the Malaysian public want is a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the mysterious causes of Teoh’s death at 14th floor of MACC Hqrs, the investigating procedures of MACC as well as into the independence, professionalism and integrity of the MACC whether it has become the catspaw of its political masters to declare war on the Pakatan Rakyat instead of declaring war on corruption.
MCA, Gerakan, MIC and SUPP Ministers have led the Teoh family and the public “up the garden path” into believing that they support a Royal Commission of Inquiry into Teoh’s death.
Did they press for a RCI into the causes of Teoh’s death and were outvoted by the rest of the Cabinet or had they agreed all along to only have a RCI into the investigative techniques of MACC but not into Teoh’s death.
Let MCA President and Transport Minister Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat, Gerakan President Tan Sri Koh Tsu Koon and all the other Ministers concerned speak up!
So it falls short of expectation. So what you gonna do now??
Well, another wayang kulit.
Up the Garden path it is, I register my disappointment of those BN leaders who promised the Teoh family the truth !
Be patient, and wait for something BIG to happen.
“if there were any human right violations”
There are reports of “Members of the police committed occasional human rights abuses.”
“Police killed a number of persons in the course of apprehending them, and there were deaths in custody as well. Other problems included police abuse of detainees, use of the Internal Security Act (ISA) and other statutes to arrest and detain persons without charge or trial, persistent questions about the impartiality and independence of the judiciary, and restrictions on freedoms of press, association, and assembly.”
lets be honest, while Malaysian especially the Teoh family think its only right that RCI into Teoh’s death and MACC be formed, they never expect it. BN’s decades of divide and conquer make each of us cynical of each other i.e. that our fellow Malaysian have for too long, learn to be PATHETIC, brainwashed to be practical and give up on idealism far too quickly and too much.
We don’t believe in each other especially strength. We don’t trust each other, we are too cautious to give to each other. Each think we don’t believe in the same thing not only of our fellow Malaysian, but our neigbours, friends and even family. Its why unity is a sham, our peace a facade.
So we expected it, what do each of us do? Teoh Beng Hock is looking down from heavan and asking us what do we do? Those people who attended his funeral, forums, protest and those who expressed it online, what are you going to do? The whole world is watching us what are we going to do?
Kit, I am glad you call this one out. I share your disappointment as it is a RCI inquiry into Beng Hock’s death we want. This is a broader scope as it will also cover MACC’s investigative procedures.
A pattern is becoming more and more clear with Najib’s sleight of hand – the deceit of appearing to heed the public’s call, but in reality not heeding the public’s call. Let’s be wise to this strategy and keep pressing on. No compromises till a RCI is set up to inquire into Beng Hock’s death.
Someone asked a very good question. So, and it is not unexpected, that the government once again fails us by wearing kid’s gloves dealing with intransigence within it’s own backyard. So what do we do? Well, if anyone had any reservation about striking out against the government because there’s some hope that they will do the right thing this once, it’s time to let go of that reservation. The time for outpouring of OUTRAGE is NOW!
RCI on MACC ? we have too many advisers already . RCI to justify and to fine tune MACC and congratulations them
Inquest on Teoh’s dead? Now you can see how wonderful Malaysia politic can be. All can be done and they are very creative. As I always believe do it and justify later semua ok in Malaysia.
Any way for those who believe in RCI and any other inquest will bring justice please read commends by KULI.
We need a TRUE RCI to investigate Kugan, Anwar (not DSAI) and Teoh cases!!!
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Lets talk about common sense
Regarding with the probably cause of Teoh Beng Hock death
***************************************************
1. Committing suicide?
-why should he? As he is getting married and become a father too
-No suicide note
-no reason and motive to commit suicide
>>So most probably not
2.He fall down from the window?
-Was the lower part of the window is below Teoh Beng Hock waist level? He would be only likely to fall down through the window if the window level is so that low (I have not seen one… and most Malaysian too have not seen one!) -but from the picture appeared in Newspapers, it is just a normal window…. above an adult’s waist level! Otherwise many MACC personel could have already fallen down to the 5th floor from 14th floor! … That did not happen!
>>So it is too unlikely that he just fall down through the window by himself!
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ow up to the own imagination to figure out what could have happened that fateful morning.
So what happened? Malaysian need to know. To discover the truth, a Royal Commission to make impartial and thorough investigation is a must!
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Najib must walk the talk… the people are fed up with the political rhetorics. You can’t earn trust, respect ad support by merely making empty promises!
THey think they are very smart trying to give us sweets to soothe our anger.
For we are no 3 year olds. Stop insulting the rakyat. We shall feed them with chili next GE.
On day one the plan was already set. TBH’s death was classified as “sudden death” and CID had already sounded that an Inquest will be held for “sudden death”. Can the police re-classify the nature of TBH’s death?
Since the RCI is going to be set up, why can’t the RCI hear the causes of TBH’s death? This 2 in 1 will save a lot of time and money.
Redundant!
If it is only to seek human rights violation then SUHAKAM can do the job. Why set up a RCI for that?
The whole country wants to know HOW he did?
We all know human rights have been tramples on with impunity. Do we need a RCI to tell us that, stupid.
From the very beginning, I am dead certain that nothing will culminate from all the outcry. Let’s all be clear of one thing! The govt IS DEAF to our voices and WILL CONTINUE TO BE DEAF to our voices until they lose the power to decide.
Our power are not in protests and outcries. Our power are in our VOTES. They will know who’s calling the shots when we wipe them out with our votes in the next GE. I hope people will remember this rage we are feeling now when they put in the ‘X’ in the voting form!
I personally think an RCI into the cause of Teoh’s death would probably be a waste of time. If we really believe there is evidence that he was unlawfully killed, the place to look for them would be his body: have an independent (preferably overseas, the Dr Porthip was a good idea) pathologist conduct an autopsy.
Without evidence from the body, I suspect the best evidence (unless the perpetrators videoed themselves for YouTube) that could be found would be circumstantial, food only for more conspiracy theories. I understand his family are expecting a progression of events after his death. Is disinterment entirely incompatible with their metaphysical beliefs?
Someone was telling me earlier that Teoh’s phone holds nothing of interest. What data has the network provider given? Just out of interest, what network is his phone on, and what kind of phone is it?
The macc interrogators will undoubtedly defend themselves, making up a cock-and-bull story of holding a stag “party” for Teoh BH’s wedding the next day, whereby he was so intoxicated with alcohol that he fell down from the 14th floor on his way home from that “party”.
The Public satisfy and Happy….up to 1Malaysia…
As expected, Najib agreed to set up the RCI.
But, it is a big but, he is whitewashing with the simple terms of reference for the commission.
Can the public have confidence in such a narrow framework within which the RCI shall operate ?
Not to mention who shall be appointed to head it
Yes, Najib tried to pull off a sleight-of-hand but he may not be successful. I can’t see how an inquiry into whether there were human rights violations in Teoh’s interrogation can be separated from the cause of Teoh’s death.
If the interrogation methods were the cause of his death, this will be revealed provided of course that the RCI can get at the truth.
The only way not to touch on the cause of Teoh’s death is if the RCI investigates general interrogation procedures and not specifically Teoh’s interrogation. Watch out if they try to do this.
However whether the RCI can get at the truth is another matter. You can’t get anything out of people who have the protection of the top.
The MACC interrogators have not been suspended. Only the head investigator has been re-assigned to HQ in a cosmetic move. Whether anybody will finally be punished or not is a big question mark.
From the beginning, I already knew that this was a hopeless situation. It’s no point to set up any “RCI” as long as the crooks have a hand in it. Anything that UMNO has a hand in automatically becomes toxic and worthless. Only thing we can do is to kick UMNO out in the next GE big time. The opposition has to build up its competency and work dilligently and sincerely. A vote for UMNO and BN is a vote for more corruption, silent murder of dissenting voices, mismanagement of the country’s economy and wealth, and destruction of our children’s future.
These GOONS can’t differenciate between WHITE and BLACK anymore. To them everything is GREY cos in their head they don’t possess any GREY matter, what they possess up there is GREED matter!!! Bangsats.
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely – may even be lethal
“You don’t lie. This is MY PLACE. I can HIT YOU. Believe me!”
Did this occur in a Gestapo torture chamber or a Kempeitai dungeon, WWII?
In Abu Ghraib prison?
In apartheid South Africa?
Kit,
I think it will be better if you can educate us more about the difference between judicial inquest and RCI, and the scope of power of them.
Kit,
Looks like you have made your point. Looks like you have won the battle. Mr Teoh’s death has given MACC, hopefully, a mortal blow. But, please plan to win the war. We need a change. I am sure that they will manipulate the RCI. Even if the RCI finds foul play, they will ignore it. Remember the Lingam Tape RCI? They forget that ignoring the RCI recommendation is insulting the King. We rakyat can see it. Please work very hard to built a creditable opposition, a creditable alternative.
This is a sham RCI and this sham inquiry will come out with some idiotic conclusion like all those court cases against the true Perak government.
A person has die under the custody of the malay establishment (NST term) and this inquiry is not looking into how and why of the death of the Mr. Teoh. The question in everybody mind is what is the purpose of this RCI?
///Umno members gather in support of MACC, police
Tarani Palani | Jul 22, 09 5:32pm
UPDATED 7.17PM Ampang Umno division chief Ismail Kijo also warned the opposition not to exploit Teoh’s death and evoke racial sentiments./// –Malaysiakini
What do the UMNO members support the MACC for? Is it for its investigation that produced death? Do they already know what happened that cause the death of Teoh? Have they decided that whatever actions that produced death should be repeated? Are they against the cabinet decision to set up a Royal commission of Inquiry? Or they have concluded that the Commission would endorse whatever MACC had done?
MACC and Police are government institutions. Comments on a government institution could only be seen to have racial connotation if UMNO youth consider the two institutions UMNO’s apparatus serving its racist objective. After the warning, what would UMNO youth do nest; a procession with MACC and police serving as outriders?
I think it is sheer stupidity for UMNO to stage a show of support for MACC. “Silence is golden”
A magistrate will be appointed to make inquiry into Teoh’s death. Therefore, it is good enough for the RCI to limit its scope to make inquiry into the interrogation procedures, the permissible interrogation techniques, the limit of the power of MACC in relation to arrest, detain, or keep under custody a suspect or a witness, and whether there was a check-and-balance system being adopted in relation to MACC’s investigation.
“You don’t lie. This is MY PLACE. I can HIT YOU. Believe me!” Whether such a Samseng-style interrogation technique shall be permitted to be used in the MACC on someone who had a respectable profession as a political secretary like Teoh is a big question for the RCI to provide an answer.
One important clue about Teoh’s death could be found from Kajang Municipal Councilor Tan Boon Wah’s confession in his cautioned statement recorded by the Police. It was reported by a Chinese Newspaper that Tan confirmed that Teoh was still alive when Tan saw him walking around at the pantry. That was the last time Teoh was known to be seen by someone.
It seemed that nothing much which had been disclosed by the Selangor Police so far was able to help to solve the puzzle about Teoh’s mysterious sudden death. If I were the member of the autopsy team, I would most likely get some samples of Teoh’s blood and of the remains from Teoh’s stomach and send these samples to Lab for getting a chemical analysis in order to find out whether there was a possibility of alcoholic intoxication, drug influence, or mental-disorder causing gas poisoning. Teoh had been starved from 5:00 pm 15.07.2009 to early morning (about 6:00 am) 16.07.2009. There was a possibility that Teoh might have attempted to get something to eat when he was near the pantry, probably being served some foods by the interrogator. And the foods could have been contaminated with some poisonous rat baits, which could cause high to the rats shortly before the rats had climped up to the rooftop and died!!!
Very disappointed! Can’t trust or rely on them anymore.
When you want to see the original, they give you the “wayang kulit” version.
Nazri must have had his way. The others were just intimidated.
Loh,the simple reason why Umno members support the MACC is because the MACC belongs to them,not us,not opposition party and not any honest guys.
I did not expect much, but still it is a disappointment to hear about this.
What can we do?
Royal Commissions of Inquiry should inquire the Right Thing : Death of Beng Hock !
http://sagaladoola.blogspot.com/2009/07/royal-commissions-of-inquiry-should.html
Any right thinking person would support the MACC,just as the Umno members especially when the MACC keeps an eye closed on any illegal actitivies you do and if there’s an investigation on you,they(MACC) would keep the other eye closed as well and let you go sccott-free. Who wouldn’t support them.Only a fool would not.In the case of TBH,what’s good about RCI ?.Don’t we have RCI on the PDRM and the Lingam case ? What had happened to these cases ? Why the dead silence ? For you guys info,all these have been thrown into the windy wind.By now it’s all been blown into the wind,no smoke,no dust,no nothing.It’s all been done neat and clean.Hope KTK would give 100% KPI mark for such efficiency to those who did it.
I totally agreed with u. We want a Royal Commission consists of penal who is hv reputation in the eye of both Pakatan & BN to investigate the real cause of Beng Hock death ! Dr Koh SK, Ong TK, Liow TL etc, pls tell Najib clearly what Teoh family want. Otherwise, pls resign before we vote u out !
YB Kit,
The Govt. proposes (1) an inquest led by a magistrate to determine where, when how and in what manner Teoh Beng Hock died and whether any person or groups of person are so implicated in causing it and (2) RCI to determine if there was any human rights violation during the interrogation of Teo. (1) is admittedly unsatisfactory but is compensated by (2).
Why is Inquest unsatisfactory? Reasons: (i) Inquest is unlike an adversarial trial where 2 sides fight each other with judge determining probabilities of what happen, a magistrate in an Inquest cannot determine on probabilities but proved facts. In custodial deaths, facts of torture are almost impossible because of esprit de corps of Securities Services not to snitch on one another; (ii) there’s no assurance that a particular magistrate assigned case will be independent/competent (iii) history of Inquests show that they were usually held months or even years after the death with verdict (in Teoh’s case) might be after our next General election (iv) verdict is likely ‘open’ verdict ie. a verdict that says, in absence of proved facts, no conclusion may be arrived as to who caused death : precedents of such inconclusive open verdicts are cases of Mr. Rumie Azzan Mahlie (2004) & Loh Kah Kheng (1990) both mysteriously falling to death exactly like Teoh from high levels of STA (Sarawak Timber Association) Building of which Inquests concluded nothing!
Securities Services are comfortable with Inquest because no Inquest (due to constraints of law ie Criminal Procedure Code) has (historically) been successful to implicate any of their members for abuse/torture. Yet one faces an uphill task to fault the Govt for recommending Inquest (that leads nowhere) for 2 reasons: (a) in many other cases of custodial deaths or even unexplained killings of 6 people who were killed in the Kg. Medan Tragedy, Inquests were requested by family members but not granted by govt, so the granting of an Inquest for Teoh assumes complexion of a “concession”, however (b) there’s yet a bigger second reason, and that is, it is a requirement of law (I think) under Criminal Procedure Code (334 & 337) (“CPC”) that when anybody dies in custody of police, psychiatric ward or hospital, the Inquest is appropriate mechanism where no one has yet been charged by Public Prosecutor. (IPCMC recommends legislative amendment to CPC on Inquest to remove its undatisfactory constraints) but as at now this has not been done yet, its therefore still law, so how do you fight to say RCI is better when our CPC says custodial death should be investigated by Inquest in lieu of police?
You should look this way: even if unsatisfactory Inquest returns “open verdict”, the RCI in the process of investigating human rights violation during the interrogation of Teo will achieve a measure of yours & NGOs objectives. As Kenny Gan posted above (July 22nd, 2009 21:18) (whose comments I associate), “I can’t see how an inquiry into whether there were human rights violations in Teoh’s interrogation can be separated from the cause of Teoh’s death. If the interrogation methods were the cause of his death, this will be revealed provided of course that the RCI can get at the truth.”
If RCI opens leads from establishing human rights violation and torture of Teo won’t this connect to his death ??? The idea is to have the RCI before or at least concurrent to the initiation of the Inquest.
An Inquest’s unsatisfactory open verdict does not and ought not necessarily to preclude public pressure for police investigations (suspended because of Inquests/RCI) and AG/Public Prosecutor to charge culprits, if connection between human rights violation and death is probable.
Here the govt is juggling between 2 imperatives and opposite camps: (1) to satisfy security forces & arguments of law based on CPC by having unsatisfactory Inquest on cause of death and simultaneously (2) to try ameliorate public outrage and satisfy opposition & NGOs’ demands by giving in to RCI to investigate human rights violation and torture of Teo.
Don’t forget for majority of custodial deaths, Inquests not even granted; yes those limited cases granted have been satisfactory but they were all not accompanied by a collateral RCI hearing on a connected issue – whether there’s human rights violation/torture just prior to sudden death, and the probable connection between the two!
On premises of above, the Cabinet’s decision is (realistically though ideally) the best available deal on the table.
Sorry, typo omission nin 2nd last para rectified in capital : “…yes those limited cases granted have been UNsatisfactory but they were all not accompanied by a collateral RCI hearing on a connected issue…..”
And: “(realistically though NOT ideally)”
“I am disappointed by the Cabinet decision on the mysterious death of Teoh Beng Hock.”
What is there to be disappointed about? Obviously, after much discussion since Najib came back, they could find no way out for the Commission to return a verdict of no guilty and absolve the government. So a half solution is offered so that if you say there is no Commission, there is one, but if you say there is one, there is none. Normal trick laaaa. Truth be told, Teoh’s death is indeed “mysterious”. I see absolutely no reason for him to commit suicide and I don’t believe he did. No one will commit suicide for the problems that Teoh had encountered.
Yeah ,Sagaladoola,you are 100% correct .The RCI should investigate the death of TBH in relation to the MACC grilling on him for more than 10 hours.The core point is what exactly had happened between TBH and MACC’s investigators in its office during the more than 10 transaction.The deceased’s family and the public would surely like to know how a young and healthy man died of “sudden death”.
oh,sorry,I mean 10 hours
You look at it diapassionately: assuming we have RCI not just on human rights violation of Teo but also cause of death and whodunnit (without the ineffective Inquest) and RCI recommends the culprits be charged, and govt desists from acting on the recommendations as they desisted in last two RCIs to act on them, whats the difference? Same – justice not done.
So whats difference if you now have an Inquest that stonewalls and returns open & inconclusive verdict blaming no one but a RCI to balance it?
If assuming RCI conducts nvestigation/hearing properly and convinces public that torture and human rights violation probably took place in Teo’s case leading to his death, and on basis of that recommends that police investigate and AG charges, and that is not done, will there not be negative political repercussions that govt wants to avoid ?
Yes one may argue, whats the point of all the hassle of RCI that is intended to connect human rights violation and death and culminate in police investigation – when police investigation is precisely that which is not trusted by public, for if it were otherwise acceptable there’s really no need to have RCI in first instance?
Well the difference is that an independent RCI’s findings before pressure on police to investigate creates a different climate and is different from police investigations without a prior or any RCI’s finding of fault.
If police investigations are desultory or perfunctory in face of a climate of RCI’s findings of fault/guilt, the police institution itself and not just MACC will be put on second round on the dock of public judgment with all its attendant political repercussions in next GE.
If you insist that RCI and not Inquest should investigate cause of death, how do you reply (1) the point about not following prescription of law/CPC ((334 & 337) for custodial death and (2) also establish that RCI has better investigative/forensic infrastructure than (say) police in investigating a killing/homicide (though no one disputes that RCI is more independent and impartial)?
///…how do you… (2) also establish that RCI has better investigative/forensic infrastructure than (say) police in investigating a killing/homicide (though no one disputes that RCI is more independent and impartial)?///
What do i mean by that?
I give one example: say one is trying to establish facts whether a suspect/witness committed suicide by walking on his own to the window on 14th floor and jumping off on his own or some people forcibly held him upside down and threw him off.
One would need to cordon off the whole 14th floor, make sure evidence not tampered, one such evidence (forensic) is foot prints at the window ledge on 14th floor or near the ledge: does evidence show the deceased foot prints consistent with him walking on his own to jump off or multiple foot prints of 2 or 3 others consistent with them going to the window and throwing him off? Who has power to cordon off the whole 14th floor and the forensic equipment to examine tell tale signs of foot prints whether they match the deceased’s shoes/soles or officers boots? Will RCI have that power/equipment to do better than (say) the police?
If the Gov’t keep continue to abuse their Citizen, The BN will vanish in the thin Air in the next GE. No more BN Gov’t. very simple.MACC is just another Tool to destroy the Opposition Not to eradicate corruption & go after the small fish only. Another ways to waste Tax payers’ fund. The world is laughing at Malaysian Gov’t & MACC. The spirit of TBH will haunt his killers forever.
Dear YB Lim,
The foreign forensic-pathologist to be engaged by Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim is Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunan. However, she required one day notice before she can fly into KLIA.
But Teoh’s parents do not want to prolonged his funeral and we must respect that. Khunying Pornthip is one ‘kick-ass’ lady and she can make the dead talk to her. We just misssed the help of this remarkable lady.
Dr Pornthip credentials : http://absolutelybangkok.com/t…#more-5208
Please ask the PR leader if they can still secure the help of Dr Pornthip as an independent forensic pathalogist expert.
It doesn’t matter if Dr Porntip can’t perform an autopsy on Teoh’s body but she can still give her opinions based on pictures taken, review evidences gathered and visit the crime scene. Dr Pornthip may also collaborate with Dr Prashant Samberkar as he was at the crime scene and I believe Dr Prashant was involve in Teoh’s autopsy.
Prior to the Cabinet meeting yesterday, Bakri Zinin, the Federal CID Director and the bloke who assaulted Raja Petra Kamarudin, has already given a clue on how Teoh’s case will be investigated.
Here : http://malaysiainsider.com/ind…eohs-death
Otherwise we may never seek JUSTICE for Teoh and the TRUTH shall forever buried with him. Believe me.
Thank You.
“Well-placed sources and officials close to the MACC said Teoh was “manhandled and threatened” by investigators during a 10-hour interrogation as part of a political conspiracy to bring down opposition leaders, led by Anwar Ibrahim, and to implicate them for alleged misuse of funds.
“When he refused to do so, the officers dragged him to a window on the 14-story building and threatened to throw him out,”said the source who was not authorized to speak to media.”
Well, this piece from Malaysian Mirror is interesting. Check it out at:
http://malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/5374-you-stupid-china-man
dpp
We are all of one Race, the Human Race.
That is all that really matters.
1. The Abuse of Human Rights and Abuses of Procedures are obvious in this case and MANY MANY others. So, the setting up of an RCI on ONLY these TWO is BLUNTLY admitting the Government and ALL those agreed to it – NONSENSE!! Such as
a) Rejecting the accompany of lawyer
b) Continuous interrogation
These are on the General Operation of MACC. As such ALL other cases in Questions should be be included. And, other such as the Independency, Competency and Very Selective Action of MACC NOT on other BIG or Gigantic Cases should be included.
2. The Problems in 1) above and the Death of TBH is one INTEGRATED case. The Truth cannot be found if under TWO HANDS and into TWO PARTS!
Especially, when MACC, Police and the Court are solid proven NOT COMPETENT, nor Independent for a FAIR, TRANSPARENT, ACCOUNTABLE and Professional job.
A COMPETENT AND TRUST-WORTHY RCI must be there to SEE that STRICT Rules and Regulations are to be followed by Competent Parties – including the Forensic.
3. The Investigation of Death by the Magistrate Court can NEVER be acceptable as they are depending on the Competent of the Police, the Forensic, the Medical Officer, AG and the Court! Where by the understanding of the General; Public, they had lost their Credibility in many cases in the past! Even a simple Lawyer assaulting Clients case, obvious Gang-up of Police, KUP. AG and Medical Officer can already be found, just because it is on a notorious Lawyer!!
4. Cause of Death –
a) it is BIAS to declare it as Sudden Death under 329 e) and not 29 d) of CPC (Criminal Procedure Code)
“that the body of a dead person has been found, and it is not known how he came by death”
b) What had been done by the Medical Officer is the BASIC questions to Start!!
Any X-Ray, or Even CT been done?
Had sufficient samples of Blood and Stomach Fluid as well as the nail or hairs been taken, or, even eye Images?
And, dissection, …..
c) The Medical Report should be provided before the Body of TBH should be buried!!
d) ANY CORONER BEEN CALLED TO THE SITE BEFORE MOVING THE BODY? (This is not stipulated in the CPC. But, this is why the CPC is much outdated!!)
d) Referring to CPC 333-339, the Decision to Inquire the Cause of Death lies with AG and the Magistrate. Both are to decide on Report being presented. 338 2) the inquiry can exclude the Public!!
e) With what happened to other cases, it will be on the list of LONG LONG QUE!! Or, Witness Statement no available due to the transfer of MACC personnels over the period!!
f) NOT ONE SINGLE MALAYSIAN CAN FIGHT AGAIN THE TAICHI OF THE POLICE/KUP/AG/COURT SYSTEM !!
g) There is no Appealing System for such an Inquiry?
(ALL MALAYSIAN LAWS ARE LAWS FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT THE PEOPLE!!)
5. What had been done by the Police so far?
a) Did they complete taking the Witness Statements for the WHOLE period when MACC started to take in TBH until he was found death?
b) What had they found from the CCTV recording they had taken from MACC?
For the lawyer assaulting clients case, the Police did not pick up the CCTV from the lawyer’s office, had not completed the witness statement for more than one year!! The lawyer was not taken into custody even it was a seizable case of violence!!
ANY LITERATE MALAYSIAN CAN SEE MACC, POLICE, KUP, AG HAD BEEN VIOLATING OR IGNORING THEIR CODE OF PRACTICE FOR YEARS!!
A COMPETENT RCI with INDEPENDENT AND COMPETENT PERSONS MUST BE SET-UP FOR A FULL PICTURE OF THE CASE!! OTHERWISE, IT IS AGAIN A JOKE!
Well, whatever it is, it will be another Kugan case….OPEN ENDED CASE…….sigh, this is Malaysia.
Clearly, the police, MACC, judges are all siding towards BN. Where is the justice in this country ?
What I can say the “Justice” and “Democracy” in this country are DEAD !! The world is looking at us, laugh at us, it becomes the joke of the year in the world news !
For those who still harbor hope there will justice in Malaysia please read the article by NH Chan at Malaysiakini– “Perverse reasons pervert justice in Anwar v PP”
Kit,
Please don’t let Najib con Teoh’s parents. They must be told that the RCI is not to investigated the cause of death. They are simple people who will not the the terms of reference of the RCI is to to fool the country.
Tell them to make known their objections to the fake RCI when Najib visits them.
Uncle Lim,
As expected. RCI was set us to fool those who want ROI, just for the sake of ROI. What is the point of having RCI without investigating the cause of death which is the key of the issue. We’re equally disappointed like you. You want apple, we give you orange. It’s fruit. What you expect?
You expect the RCI to investigate the root cause of the case which shall set a precedent for us to press for the RCI for Atantulya’s death.
This is the way that PM is leading us. Let you feel “syok” but not “steam”.
Sorry. I am refering to RCI not ROI. Stay corrected.
Sorry YB, don’t know what happened to my link. I try again
http://absolutelybangkok.com/the-police-minder/#more-5208
http://malaysiainsider.com/index.php/malaysia/32837-cid-hints-at-possible-coroners-inquest-into-teohs-death
The stage is set, Najib just made his move. Now the people must make theirs. Its the will of Najib-led UMNO/BN destructive elitist self-protection vs. the people’s will of the right and proper thing…
Each Malaysian must ask – are you a self-interested PATHETIC loser or are you going to make UMNO/BN pay?
The aim really is to skirt the real issue. Its a poor deception. 40yrs ago, similar deception may actually work. Umno really is 40yrs out of date.
We want a full Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes of and culprits for TBH’s death. Other than that, don’t waste time and the taxpayers’ money. Najib, your “PEOPLE FIRST” is meaningless and noises only.
We also want a crystal clear and explicit answer to “Who initiated and instructed to start a campaign of intimidation and harassment against Pakatan which set off a chain of events that ultimately led to TBH’s death”?
What a whitewash!
Our PM is not sincere and truthful in looking the causes of Teoh’s death. He is just playing politics and to deceive the public to win their hearts and votes! Sly, dirty and hypocritical politician. He should consider RCI instead of just an inquest by a court magistrate?????????????
To PM,
Teoh’s family members and the general public want to know the truth on the causes of the Teoh’s death by RCI and not by an inquest and also not just the investigation procedures by MACC by RCI.
To MCA leaders esp. Ong Tee Keat,
What promise you have made to Teoh’s family members? Also are you really sincere to find out the truth concerning the causes of his death or just concern for the investigation procedures by MACC on Teoh or have you bowed down again to your master UMNO? Why during the cabinet meeting yesterday, you did not voice strongly concerning RCI on the causes of Teoh’s death and not just the procedural investigation of MACC by RCI.
We feel that our PM, HM, Police and MACC have already a mindset that Teoh’s death is due XXXXX. Thus what a farce and hyprocrisy is the present on -going Police Investigation.
This is blatant hypocrisy at its best and practised at the highest level. It is a naked attempt at cover up and trying to whitewash the death of Teoh.
This BN Govt must be idiots to think we cannot see through their tricks. And what nauseates me is the bunch of eunuch non UMNO ministers in the Cabinet who betrays their own principles by going along with this type of dastardly acts.
Najib claims that his 1Malaysia principle were to “protect the people’s rights and interests”. If that is the case and there is nothing to hide why not let the RCI conduct the full investigation? Why dilute the investigation with the magistrate inquest with its constraints? We all know what type of credibility we have with the judges in this country, let alone some junior magistrates who are lorded over by the AG who in turn is appointed by the PM.
By a sly sleight of hand, the Govt. is trying to hide the truth. I suspect the Govt already knows the truth and this RCI/ inquest setup is to try to hide the truth. If this Govt is really committed to finding out the truth as it claims, why be afraid to let an RCI conduct the full enquiry? If there can be an RCI for Anwar’s black eye and the Lingam scandal, is Teoh’s death of lesser importance?
Whatever goodwill Najib thinks he has generated with this decision, he is sadly mistaken. In fact, he has revealed his true intentions.
As what Najis had said many times before, BN must be seen to have done what it supposed to do!!! How to be seen to have done justice for the dead is by forming RCI or inquest etc to show people that BN is concerned about justice but not many people really looking into the details that the RCI is formed to look into the procedures etc of MACC and not the death of TBH!!! very smart move by the BN govt to be seen to do justice for the dead!!!
I would like to appeal to all Malaysian who love justice & truth to rise up against injustice and untruth in our beloved country!!!
Our country is not a Boleh Bunuh country, but a country that treasures justice & truth!!!
Time is limited!!! No one will be spared because of the rotten system in placed!!!
We might not die in MACC, we might die in police custody!!!
We might not die in govt agencies, we might die on the road due to poor road system, polution, unworthy vehicles on the road due to corruption etc.
We might not die in the govt hospital due to incompetent doctors and poor system, we might die in our own house due to roberry.
We might not die in road accident, we might die due to snatch thief.
We might not die due to hunger, we might die due to NS!!!
Time to reflect why we must suffer for all the wrongs that BN govt brought upon us!!!
I suspect that the diluted RCI and the inquest is setting the stage for a whitewash conclusion by the inquest that Teoh’s death was of his own making but the MACC’s interrogations method may have pressured him into doing it. They hope this diluted conclusion will be palatable to the public and acceptable to the parents when delivered by Najib himself. After all, by doing this they would appear to be fair minded in having punished the MACC but stopped short of blaming them for the actual death. Other developments seem to confirm this is the direction the Govt. will take. The IGP has commented that Teoh’s handphone was with the MACC because they wanted to check the SIM card. In effect, this can be interpreted as trying to protect the MACC and explaining for them why the mobilephone was still with the MACC after Teoh is dead. Fine, can the MACC prove that the handphone was voluntarily surrendered by Teoh? Did the MACC sign any documents to prove they have taken his handphone? If not, one can also speculate that the handphone was taken from Teoh during interrogation and when he died suddenly, there was no chance to cover this up.
Enough is Enough!!! Time to change!!!
Malaysian goverment is sick!
It is put up there by very sick people!
Silly idiots.
First, he thought that the removal of that bumiputras-only rights in respect of some minor and insignificant sector of government services would make us jump with joy.
Next he thought that the promise to set up yet another category of “totally merit-based” scholarship (when that category already existed but was abused in favour of some meritless scholarlars) would make us cry with joy.
Then he thought that by removing the 30% umnoputra equity rights in new IPO would make us all hail him as “The greatest”. That umnoputras-only right is already spent. In fact umnoputras have exhausted all its goodness and usefulness (look at their belly size and mansion size for evidence). And now that it no longer serves any real purpose najib decided to discard it. In any event, its too risky because new IPOs are almost certain to see price drop immediately after listing.
Feeling confident that he has done well he then announced that toll reduction decision – the effect of which will benefit not many people.
Now, he believes that the RCI to look into some procedural issues instead of the causes of beng hock’s death would compel us to kiss his feet.
My dear friends. Let us all give him that 1malaysia hand sign. Let us all clench our fist. Hold it up high. Lift up the middle finger and shout “Nah Najib”.
Do you think a smart Najib will organize a true blue RCI to shoot himself in the foot??!!
A brand new multi-millions stadium collapsed resulting 500 people dead so a RC was set up to investigate the weather pattern.
The current RC on MACC SOP is exactly same as above!
Tiu Niamah!
Japan LDP has ruled Japan almost uninterruptly for 50 years.
It will end in the next election due next month.
UMNO will be of the same fate. Time to go. You have over stayed your worth!
We are heading for real trouble. “War of the running dogs” is coming.
the Teoh Beng Hock insident reminded me how co…..insident that at the time k. toyo has been dismiss out of selangor state paliament,follow by wee statement and all 7 duns of selangor state government have been invited to minum copi at MACC office.
and the 24 million mansion man terbongkar get angry.
so if u make them angry they will used all avenue
they have to keep u silent.
just my imagination. i like to read stories and relate each one to it.
You want an RCI, you have one. Fait accompli.
Lingam said: Sound like an RCI, look like an RCI, smell like an RCI
but, pong, pong, pong, is it an RCI?
How many of you have walk in a police station in Malaysia. I’ve walked in several times to report something. I think they are pretty decent people. Not all police is bad, just those who must obey order to protect the BN goons. They have no choice because they have to follow their master just like a bodyguard or maid.
Musa is just a human, he is also victim of political war between justice and corrupt. If you were Musa, what can you do? each character existed for reason and they must play either the protagonist or antagonist. This is life what you expect? don’t tell me you never abuse your power? in Singapore the govt. is good but to some is bad, that’s the reason Jayaretnam son will rise to fight against senior Lee Kuan Yew party. Democracy has a price, are Malaysian ready for democracy?
Go watch Jack Neo movies you will see how Singaporean assess their country and try to tell the world what really is Democracy.
No doubt the government has become rich, and the nation have greater buying power compare to poor Malaysian, but in Malaysia UMNO and BN has become rich and the nation have less and less buying power thru increasing fuel price, increasing electricity tariff, build more tolls, and these causes suffering, from suffering crooks will rise to robe the goldsmith, banks, money changer, as we have witnessed in today news.
What causes the increase in crime rate and insecurity these days?
Malaysian who is wealthy and rich are close link to BN, if BN collapse their wealth will be impacted.
They are not ready for democracy, as many things are personal and can’t be transparent this apply to both opposition PKR and national coalition BN. In US, president Obama will reveal how much tax he paid, in Malaysia, we will never able to see perhaps in our lifetime.
Why would you risk your life to robe a goldsmith, bank, or money changer if you have a comfortable life? the root of all evil comes from poor income distribution by the BN goons. This made some people taking advantage of the loophole, e.g. Istana Zakariah, Khir Toyol mansions,PKFZ and many more scandal which is alleged to involve the government officials. Why not? this is the only opportunity they can prosper and earn a living. They lived a good life ignoring the plight of the poor, but you see this is a cruel reality in our country where the rich and power are protected by LAW e.g. Datuk Soh case where a nephew from China is found dead but nothing happen.
After the PKR has won the election in major state, the crime rate has increase, this is normal, because many project are no longer feasible anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmB8g8vlDIU
saudara kit how u want the same gang of people to bongkar thier own fault.
the whole system fail.
Royal Commission has to do it right the first time by investigating cause of death of TBH and leave nothing unturned else it will turn out to be another Royal Circus that will pull down the whole institutions that promote transparancy and accountability.
TBH’s tragedy going to degrade integrity of the institutions in our nation further after Attanthuya, Kugan and many more unsolved tragedies happening one after another, making fool of the entire administration.
Rakyat are feed up and sick of the Royal Circus show.
Jeffrey in Page 1 of the comments has made a good analysis on why an inquest of death cause of Teoh that is to be instructed by a magistrate is much preferrable to a Royal Commission of Inquiry for investigating the death cause of Teoh.
Before Malaysia achieved its independence from British colonial rule in 1957, a RCI was a highly honourable investigative hearing and inquest establishment because people in those days were giving due respect and high honour to the Royalty. During Dr. Mahathir’s 22 years’ authoritative rule in Malaysia, the influence of the Royalty had been significantly reduced by the addition of Special Court clause into the Federal Constitution of Malaysia and by Dr. Mahathir’s requiring training syllabi in Special Branch and in the former ACA to be changed and the Prime Minister instead of the Yang Dipertuan Agong had then been put up as a figurehead focus of loyalty who would be pledged a loyalty by the Special Branch police and the ACA staff.
With the promotion of the concept of Ketuanan Melayu by Najib-Hishammuddin in Malaysia for the past one decade, the Malay racism had been implanted into the Police Force and the present MACC. Both Police Force and the MACC were classified as the Malay institutions of which the authoritativeness was not supposed to be challenged or questioned by anyone according to some racist think-tanks of Umno.
As Malaysia’s legal framework and legal proceeding infrastructure have been long-established and most investigative powers have been put in the hands of the Police Force and judicial powers have been put in the hands of the Chief Justice, it seems that RCI will not be an establishment which can enjoy the same quantum of powers as the Police Force and the Judicial Court. Even if the RCI is to be given the power to make inquiry into the death cause of Teoh, it is not likely that the findings of the RCI will be able to implicate any Government Officer, if he is found guilty by the RCI or is held responsible for negligence, in relation the death of Teoh.
We can only hope that a fair and impartial magistrate will be appointed to conduct an inquest into the death cause of Teoh and an untouchable cop can be appointed to assist the magistrate in this matter.
Onlooker Politics, you must have misunderstood me, or my posting was unclear as it wasn’t the conclusion of my analysis that an inquest looking into cause of death of Teoh (presided by magistrate) “is much preferrable to a Royal Commission of Inquiry for investigating the death cause of Teoh.”
I merely said that the CPC provides that sudden custodial death is within purview of Inquest so it is not easy as a matter of law for those preferring RCI to repudiate it.
Commenting on RCI I also said it had not the means (forensic infrastructure) as police to investigate homicide as effectively.
It is my impression that inquests more often and not yield no result because it is “inquisitorial” in which magistrate/coroner has to act on proven facts, and since there is wall of silence by perpetrators of death of Teoh, there won’t probably be any evidence for inquest to determine with certainty, hence resulting in “open verdict”. A court, provided its independent, does better job because its “adversarial” where both sides fighht and judge makes determination based on probabilities, in a criminal case, the standard being “beyond reasonable doubt”. The inquest being “inquisitorial and not adversarial, is worse because the magistrate there cannot determine cause of death based on “beyond reasonable doubt”. Magistrate has to determine based on beyond all doubts ie certainty which practically means he can determine nothing. It is also my impression that RCI will be able to receive more credibility in terms of impartiality than (say) an inquest though RCI is otherwise disadvantaged due to its lack of investigative infrastructure as the police in a homicide. I have also listed a couple of reasons why inquest is unsatifactory but I said that cannot be helped because CPC law requires it for custodial death. I also said the unsatisfactoriness of inquest in Teoh’s case may be balanced out and mitigated by RCI investigating whether Teoh’s rights have been violated during interrogation provided that the RCI commissioners are impartial and competent.
Maybe they will do it if the victim happens to be Roast Mah the ugly fat old first-lady.
This was the same scenario as Kugan case.
All of these are made up.
The late Teoh Beng Hock must have accidentally been killed (same as Kugan Case) and placed the corpse there. The landing position is the main point.
With the window panel remained open, torn pant and some related window parts, so that they can put it as if the late Teoh Beng Hock jumped down himself. Award winning scripting. BN keep lying. The rakyat would be fooled by them if this was done 40 years ago.
Check the statement recorded by the MACC officer concerned. A lot of thing can be found there.