“Kit Siang ‘misled community’” – New Straits Times
“What’s your stand, Kit Siang asked” – The Star
Screaming headlines attacking me are back in the Barisan Nasional-controlled mainstream media.
Suddenly the MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat himself has led a ferocious political charge against me, challenging me to state my stand on the resolutions tabled by PAS at its muktamar last week and wanting me to apologise for misleading and betraying the Chinese community for supporting Pas.
This is the New Straits Times report:
He (Ong) said in the run-up to the general election, DAP had appealed to the Chinese community to support Pas by claiming that the Islamic party was harmless and only interested in setting up a welfare state.
However, the stand of Pas president Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang on unity talks with Umno has changed the situation.
“Now that the Pas has clearly stated its stand which is contrary to DAP’s stand, Lim should answer to the Chinese community.
“The people want to know: are you agreeable to Pas’ stand? If not, why did you ask the Chinese to throw their weight behind Pas even before you could make the right judgment about them?” he said at a press conference yesterday, adding that he was holding Lim responsible for misleading the community.
This is the Star report:
KUALA LUMPUR: MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat has challenged DAP adviser Lim Kit Siang to state his stand on the resolutions tabled by PAS at its muktamar last week.
Ong said the people would like to know where he stood on the matter.
“PAS has stated its stand, which is contrary to DAP’s stand. Now, the people wish to know whether you (Kit Siang) are agreeable to this. What say you, Kit Siang?”
Ong said this during a press conference at his service centre in Taman Muda, Cheras, yesterday.
At the muktamar, PAS had proposed a unity government between Umno and PAS. It also called for the 30% bumiputra quota to be maintained, opposed the liberalisation of the 27 service sub-sectors announced by the Government and wanted Sisters in Islam banned.
Ong said Lim had appealed to the Chinese community to support PAS in the previous general elections and said the party would take the Chinese community’s needs and wishes into consideration.
“You asked the Chinese community to throw their weight behind PAS. We hold you responsible. You cannot say that your words are meant for the election period only,” he said.
I confess that I would have been very worried if this had happened ten years ago with me as the subject of such massive firepower by the MCA President, enlisting the full support of the infamous mainstream media, totally blacking me out in a one-sided campaign of vilification painting me as a traitor of the Chinese in Malaysia and a stooge of PAS!
But this was the “old politics” of the past 50 years which had been decisively rejected by Malaysians in the political tsunami of the March 8, 2008 general elections.
There are three reasons why, instead of being alarmed I feel amused and even pity for Ong for his politics of desperation in resorting to all the tricks-of-the-trade of “old politics” when Malaysians are ahead of the Ong-led MCA leadership in wanting to see the steady rise of “new politics”.
Firstly, the people know that Ong’s allegations are baseless for they are very clear about the DAP’s stand on various issues.
On the “unity government” issue, I declared the DAP stand at the PAS muktamar when I was asked by the press. Dare Ong get a resolution passed by the Barisan Nasional Supreme Council banning Umno leaders from having any talks or contacts with PAS without specific approval by MCA?
On the call for 30% bumiputra quota to be maintained and opposition of the liberalisation of the 27 service sub-sectors at the Pas muktamar, these do not in any manner affect or alter the DAP’s stands which are different from these calls.
On the call for the banning of the Sisters in Islam, I immediately twittered my reaction the very same day, when I said it was “shocking, ridiculous”.
On 9th June, I received an email from Maria Abdullah, senior manager of Sisters in Islam, asking my endorsement of a joint statement by civil society on the attack from PAS against SIS.
She said that my “support for the statement will mean a lot to the democratic space that civil society, and I believe this is also what DAP is fighting for”.
The following was the draft joint statement:
“JOINT STATEMENT BY MALAYSIAN CIVIL SOCIETY ON PAS RESOLUTION TO BAN SISTERS IN ISLAM
“We the undersigned are deeply disturbed by the call on the part of the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party (PAS) to have Sisters in Islam (SIS) banned and its members rehabilitated should its activities be determined to be contrary to the Islamic shariah. It is apparent to us that in making the call in the manner that it has, PAS has already formed the view that SIS should be banned and its activities brought to an end.
“While we respect the freedom of members of PAS to associate in a manner that they consider appropriate or warranted as well as their freedom to express a view in association on such matters as they see fit, the members of SIS, or any other organization for that matter, are equally guaranteed those freedoms. No one person or organization has a monopoly over the right to express views on matter of public importance. The call to silence SIS and send its members for rehabilitation is an act of violence against those freedoms and their constitutional underpinnings. It also lends itself to further closure of the already narrow space of public discourse and debate that a slew of anti-expression laws have allowed Malaysians.
“For Malaysia to mature into the democracy that Malaysians aspire to, it is vital that diversity, even of views, be protected and nurtured. Respect for the freedoms guaranteed to all Malaysians by the Federal Constitution, be they members of PAS or any other organization or simply individuals, is crucial to this endeavor.
“The demand for action against SIS culminating in a ban is not easily reconciled with PAS public rhetoric in favour of a more democratic and inclusive Malaysia. On the contrary, the demand is wholly anti-democratic. We reiterate that though members of PAS are entitled to their views, the call for the banning of SIS is wholly unacceptable. As a matter of principle, the question of banning any organization purely for their views should not arise at all. Differences of views must be respected and, if at all, be resolved through constructive engagement.
“In view of this, we urge PAS to reconsider its position and take such steps as are necessary to retract the call for action against SIS.”
This was my immediate reply to Maria:”
“As you would have known from my twitter, I have described the PAS resolution calling for the ban of SIS and rehabilitation of its members as ‘shocking’ and ‘ridiculous’.
“DAP and I fully support the petition and you can make this public although we are not signatory to this petition concerning another member of Pakatan Rakyat.”
Did Ong endorse the civil society petition against Pas on the SIS issue?
I do not want to play politics here, or I will ask Ong why MCA is still in Barisan Nasional when three out of four who responded to his question on his blog had told MCA to get out of BN?
Or why MCA had not learnt from the lessons of the March 8 political tsunami last year and continues to play subservient role to Umno in Barisan Nasional, whether on ketuanan Melayu; abandonment of the Bangsa Malaysia concept and its replacement with 1Malaysia which nobody knows its real meaning; undermining of the doctrine of separation of powers with the executive usurping the powers of the judiciary and the legislatures; greed for political power in supporting the unethical, undemocratic, illegal and unconstitutional power grab in Perak; last but not least, the role of the MCA leadership in the “scandal of scandals”, the RM12.5 billion Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ) scandal.
The second reason why I am not alarmed by Ong’s reversion to “old politics” using the mainstream media in his political onslaught on me is because the mainstream media have lost great credibility and authority in the past decade – and very few Malaysians are going to be influenced by the falsehoods and half-truths against Pakatan Rakyat leaders published in these media, whether New Straits Times or Star.
The third reason is the most potent of all – Malaysians know that the whole objective of the Ong political attack on me is to distract attention from my daily three questions on the PKFZ scandal.
It is more pertinent for Ong Tee Keat to explain why he is on the run from my “three questions a day” on the RM12.5 billion PKFZ scandal instead of trotting out “old politics” which had been rejected by Malaysians in last year’s political tsunami.
Despite all the allegations against Kit, the plain fact is 8 out of 10 people rejected MCA in the survey conducted recently.
That OKT ooppps…OTK is trying to portray a big hero of himself to the chinese communities. Some may be hoodwinked by deeds. However, the majority of us are not. Besides, this guy got a real super duper ego. And this is typical of MCA big guns behaviour in front of their UMNO masters.
Otherwise they will end up like the 400+ poor dogs in a deserted island. The only diff is they can only bark then.
Kit:
Don’t get sidetracked by Ong Ta Kut to deal with other issues. Concentrate on the PKFZ scandal. The way they are manipulating the mainstream press to attack the DAP is another signal that we are on the right track, and that they have something “huge” to hide.
If we were all talking nonsense and misleading the public, then why didn’t PKA take legal action for libel ? It’s because then everything would have to come out in a court of law, and they have to try to suppress the information from being made public.
New Straits Time and The Star, I am sure you are following YB Kit’s blog. Will you provide “the right to reply” from YB Kit
YB Kit reply to that ong ta kut questions are right here, will you report them.
My appeal to you all is to report fairly and allow the right to reply.
One more thing, just to let you all know, I had not being reading your newspapers for over a decade. Should you decide to report on this reply from YB Kit, can you ask one of your cyber trooper to make a comment here. Thanks.
Malaysia For All
GE 13 – No matter what, we must ensure that racist umno bn do not regain the power like they had for over the past fifty one years.
You know why they are afraid ? They know that come 2013, they will be booted from power, and we will go after them. We will ensure that their “Tunship” or “Tan Sri-ship” or “Datukship” are sunk like the Titanic.
please sue otk and the media for their baseless, unfounded and incorrect accusations.
otk still need to answer all the pending questions, the pkfz culprits must be revealed and tax-payer money lost in this big mess must be traced and recovered.
I posted 5 questions on the PKA website on Wednesday. So far no answers. Perhaps they are checking with their lawyers and consultants on how to answer.
Here, YB LKS had written:
Suddenly the MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat himself has led a ferocious political charge against me, challenging me to state my stand on the resolutions tabled by PAS at its muktamar last week and wanting me to apologise for misleading and betraying the Chinese community for supporting Pas…
and,
I confess that I would have been very worried if this had happened ten years ago with me as the subject of such massive firepower by the MCA President, enlisting the full support of the infamous mainstream media, totally blacking me out in a one-sided campaign of vilification painting me as a traitor of the Chinese in Malaysia and a stooge of PAS!
Dear YB,
It’s evident that UMNO’s BN is trying to depict you as a traitor, stooge & puppet of PAS as they had tried to depict the ousted MB of Perak also as a traitor, stooge & puppet of DAP.
You also wrote:
The third reason is the most potent of all – Malaysians know that the whole objective of the Ong political attack on me is to distract attention from my daily three questions on the PKFZ scandal.
No doubt about that, YB!
It’s obvious that there is no doubt that UMNO’s BN, through its significant influence the mainstream media, has embarked on a campaign to project Pakatan Rakyat as a failing opposition coalition that is not up to governing this nation.
I’m sure you remember that early this week, NST had put on its front page pro-UMNO’s BN comments from a USM political analyst, taking advantage of the much publicised unhappiness of PKR councillors over the appointment of the MPSP president, which was blamed on the Penang CM, whom you already know is from DAP.
However, this political analyst had ignored the fact that upon the resignation of the previous Penang 1st DCM, who was from PKR, not too long ago, the Penang CM himself, in the PR’s spirit of making decisions collectively, had left it to the PKR leadership to decide on the replacement DCM1, and as a result, the Penang CM was criticised by UMNO’s BN and its supporters for being indecisive and not behaving like a true state government head, even to the extent of questioning whether he or the PKR leadership is leading the Penang state government. What more when the position of the municipal council president is not as high & as important as the position of a state deputy chief minister. It’s not as if PKR members & supporters are going to march into the DAP HQ to tear photos of DAP leaders over this MPSP issue…
Also in that NST article, that USM political analyst had also brought up the controversial Perak state constitutional crisis, that ‘cracks’ in Pakatan Rakyat had caused those 2 ADUNs from PKR & 1 ADUN from DAP to defect. Again, that USM political analyst appears to have forgotten that the remaining Pakatan Rakyat ADUNs, including the ousted state MB and his state exco members, had displayed solidarity & unity when they tried to hold an emergency state legislative assembly session in the face of the pro-UMNO’s BN PDRM & civil service, which lead to the ‘Democracy Tree’ session, and also during the March 7th session where Speaker V. Sivakumar was forcefully and physically evicted from his rightful place out of the state assembly.
May be it’s high time for YB to get together with the other leaders of Pakatan Rakyat and figure out a way to counter all this propaganda from UMNO’s BN before it drastically shifts public opinion in BN’s favour…
yep. the BN fellas are still living in the 90s & are in denial.
Playing on Chinese fear of PAS is so yesterday. It doesn’t work anymore especially when Umno display plenty of religious extremism themselves.
Chinese do not fear PAS because in a coalition of equals, DAP and PKR can hold PAS in check. But can MCA, MIC and Gerakan hold Umno in check?
Tong bao dont fight tong bao except have deep teethmarks ,
all this while m see hair club is dreaming for so many years and lead sympathisers to holland
too late to takut
face it repay the loyalty or disloyalty
or else join others
What is Ong Ta Kut’s stand on Umno’s willingness to engage with PAS bearing in mind that any Umno-PAS cooperation is a cause for concern to the Chinese community?
Ong has no right to challenge LKS for his stand on the call by some leaders in PAS to talk to Umno when when he himself has been quiet as a mouse and unable to even give a squeak of protest at Umno.
MCA has raised hypocrisy to a fine art indeed.
These people trying to divert attention telling the rakyat to focus on PAS/SIS issue, unity talk wat ever nonsense.
The fact is 27 million population excl BN & Associations want to know who are the ones who made hasty decision that causing us taxpayers lossing billions of ringgit.
Till todate after so many round and round of enquiries apparently the one sitting at the high chair still cant answer a simple question.
Of course the scumbeg will kena left right centre till they tell the truth and booked those who squandered off our money.
If they failed to act for some reasons of course they will get blamed for their formal bosses’ misdeeds till kingdom comes. They are no different from their formal bosses who had retired happily ever after.
PAC is totally irresponsible for not calling back and enquire the old dogs who were in charged of the project.
How good it is if a company director after siphoned millions and resigned the next day, he doesnt have to answer to the company or even PAC as he longer in the company?
If this was the standard procedure that PAC called for, then we the Malaysian citizens go nothing more to add. PAC is simply a useless tool wasting more taxpayers’ money.
Best job in the world.
After robbing next day resign as a robber and retire happily. Even PAC also does not bother to go after you. No wonder more and more daylight robberies happening in the country.
Avoiding answering LKS questions and start accusing LKS….challenging him on a totally different matter..is a clear sign…MCA is heading towards the Tong Sampah.
OTK..or..”Or Kui Tow”….was and still is..the one and only MCA President… puppet to his few masters What a disgrace to the Chinese community.
“The demand for action against SIS culminating in a ban is not easily reconciled with PAS public rhetoric in favour of a more democratic and inclusive Malaysia. On the contrary, the demand is wholly anti-democratic.”
in other words you’re saying that islamic values are inconsistent with democratic values. and you’re right. in islam women are accorded a different status. they have rights but they do not have the same rights. Just like dap and pkr. dap members have the same rights but some rights are unequal.
something too hard for most here to understand.
Ong Ta Kut refused to answer brother Kit Siang’s questions but turned around to attack brother Kit Siang. I think brother Kit Siang is pushing Ong Ta Kut to the edge of the slope. For Ong Ta Kut’s information, brother Kit Siang had already provided all the answers you wanted.
The only way open for Ong Ta Kut is to take up brother Kit Siang’s challenge to an open debate.
Ong Ta Kut had removed “MCA to leave BN” poll from his blog. A fantastic 76% of the respondents agreed MCA to get out of BN.
hi idiot TomDum….This is a post about PKFZ RM12/5 billion ripped off by your masters.Llng Liong Sik.. and Chan Koon Choy…not religious values…BODOH!!
Don’t try to be too smart …to change the subject.
But then Or Kui Tow is doing that to Lim Kit Siang.
Faithful student like Dumbo…try same stunt.. with us.
“# TomThumb Says:
Today at 19: 51.00 (20 minutes ago)
“The demand for action against SIS culminating in a ban is not easily reconciled with PAS public rhetoric in favour of a more democratic and inclusive Malaysia. On the contrary, the demand is wholly anti-democratic.”
in other words you’re saying that islamic values are inconsistent with democratic values. and you’re right. in islam women are accorded a different status. they have rights but they do not have the same rights. Just like dap and pkr. dap members have the same rights but some rights are unequal.” – THE DUMB-MEST COMMENT I’D EVER HEARD! YOU REALLY THINK A+B=C HERE? WHAT IS NOT THERE MEANS NOT THERE. DON’T SIMPLYJUMB TO CONCLUSION DUMB @SS..
“# TomThumb Says:
Today at 19: 52.31 (18 minutes ago)
something too hard for most here to understand.” – EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD AND TALKING ABOUT IT. JUST YOU ALONE TALK DUMB THINGS.
tomdumbo, you are just too popular. those are quite descriptive compliments to your intelligence…changing the subject, diverting attention and discussion from the key issue, fanning a smoke screen so that the subject becomes hazy after posting your rather intelligent comments just like the time you posted 41 comments in a 129 comment posting.
Only Talk Kok is losing credibility fast, that is if there’s still any one who takes him seriously besides Najib. A good 7 out of 10 people polled say MCA should GET OUT of UMNO. So, now OTK hopes to leverage this to strong-arm Najib? With fast dissipating support from the Chinese community and left with people like you, chenghog and true-something as supporters, he can Only Talk and strong-arm his Kok while whimpering like a dog…at the feet of Slime Ball.
He (Karpal Singh) noted Hadi’s recent claims that both DAP and PKR had agreed to let the Islamist party continue its talks with (UMNO)..
“All that is not true. And something untrue is embarrassing, isn’t it? He owes us all an apology. He has no business to say that DAP ..” the Lion of Jelutong roars.
———————————-
time for dap’s great leader to deal with problems in his own backyard.
“A good 7 out of 10 people polled say MCA should GET OUT of UMNO.” kerishamudinitis
seriously, if you think mca could “get out of umno”, you shouldn’t even be here commenting. it is like asking ekin not to lick the poo left behind behind by umno’s dogs.
What to do with these MCA fellars? It’s not like their partnership with UMNO is so ‘clean’.
Maybe MCA should clean their own backyard before pointing fingers at others.
Why don’t they talk about the issue of religious conversion? After all, they were the ones together with UMNO that allowed the constitution to be changed to give the Syariah courts immunity from interference by the higher courts without properly delineating specific jurisdictions, thus creating a gaping gray area now in our judicial system.
Why don’t they talk about how they allowed UMNO to dilute non Malay votes by removing the constitutional requirement on limits of the sizes of voter population thus leading to huge disparity in voter population per seat in non Malay areas versus Malay areas?
MCA, your track record in defending and serving the chinese community isn’t exactly all that brilliant and you have lied over and over through your teeth to the chinese community. So your accusations bear little weight.
TomDumb licking the poo left behind by his Umno master dogs…quickly apply the art of cover ups…focusing on ekin….doing the thing.
The subconscious of a weak mind of an idiot…at work…with no success..so much so..ekin can’t be bothered to respond to his insult.
But I will not let him off the hook so easily.
tomdumbo, BN = UMNO, UMNO = BN. Gerakan is putrefying. MCA is gangrenous. MIC is now irrelevant. PPP is falling part. And you say there is a BN that is not UMNO?
Really disappointed with “The Star” newspaper!!!
In the past, I only partially believed that “The Star” is controlled by government. But now, after being an avid reader of Uncle Lim’s blog, I totally agree that “The Star” is a tool of government!
All lame, useless comments by OTK were reported here and there. Useful, constructive comments/criticism made by Uncle Lim were wiped out and not reported or misreported.
I will not hesitate to tell all my friends that media freedom is still beyond our reach in Malaysia!! My burmese friend tells me that burmese people buy newspaper just to see orbituary! I think Malaysia perople will follow in their footsteps soon, with the current government!
We rakyat want a change!
“After all, they were the ones together with UMNO that allowed the constitution to be changed to give the Syariah courts immunity from interference by the higher courts…”
immunity from interference? it is called exclusive jurisdiction as opposed to shared jurisdiction.
It is called your hole controlling your brain……and not your brain controlling the hole.
I’m confused. Isn’t OTK the one who has some explaining to do now that umno, his master, is getting cosy with pas? he used to attack you about pas so now pas is getting close to umno, which also means getting close to mca.
Did our King or Agong ever question the prime minister why such a such person or persons are recomemded for such a such tittle ?. I could not apprehend why and how certain tugs,crooks,liars,cheaters and swindlers were awarded ” Datukship,Tan Sri-ship and Tunship”.ON the contrary ,good and honest citizens who really contributed in term of cash and kinds to the development and welfare of the country were ignored.
MR. PATHETIC TOMTHUMB AKA ONE OF 3 STOOGES,
“# TomThumb Says:
Yesterday at 22: 01.09
He (Karpal Singh) noted Hadi’s recent claims that both DAP and PKR had agreed to let the Islamist party continue its talks with (UMNO)..
“All that is not true. And something untrue is embarrassing, isn’t it? He owes us all an apology. He has no business to say that DAP ..” the Lion of Jelutong roars.
———————————-
time for dap’s great leader to deal with problems in his own backyard.” – OH NO! YOUR MAMA’S BACKYARD ON FIRE! HURRY UP WITH YOUR PEE!! HA HA HA
“# TomThumb Says:
Yesterday at 22: 07.37
“A good 7 out of 10 people polled say MCA should GET OUT of UMNO.” kerishamudinitis
seriously, if you think mca could “get out of umno”, you shouldn’t even be here commenting. it is like asking ekin not to lick the poo left behind behind by umno’s dogs.” – WHY IN THE WORLD YOU ASSOCIATE ME WITH UMNO? DON’T YOU REMEMBER YOU WERE THE DOG I SAID YOU WERE OF UMNO? NOW YOU REPLACE YOURSELF WITH ME? LAUGH OUT LOUD! ITS ALWAYS YOURS OK HA HA HA OH TOMTHUMB DUMBBELL UMNO DOGGIE..PLEASE STOP LICKING THE POOSSSS…HA HA HA HA HA
“# TomThumb Says:
Today at 00: 06.08 (2 hours ago)
“After all, they were the ones together with UMNO that allowed the constitution to be changed to give the Syariah courts immunity from interference by the higher courts…”
immunity from interference? it is called exclusive jurisdiction as opposed to shared jurisdiction.” – AS ALWAYS, YOU’RE POINTING THE ARROW TO DAP DAP AND DAP EVEN WHEN EVERYONE KNEW THE PHRASE ARE REFERRING TO YOUR LOVELY UMNO BN. CAN’T EXPECT ANYTHING FROM A DUMBBELL LIKE YOU HA HA HA
“I could not apprehend why and how certain tugs,crooks,liars,cheaters and swindlers were awarded ” frankyapp
i believe the word you’re looking for is comprehend.
– Seems to me that OKT is very desperate to divert the public’s attention from the PKFZ fiasco by employing the mainstream media to paint a bad light of those who are trying to dig up the truth.
– SHAME on him!!!!
Of course the mainstream media is trying to derive a wedge between the Pakatan parties. It’s not very different from some commentators to this blog pretending to be DAP supporters and insisting on certain courses of action to be taken against PAS.
That’s how to agree to disagree tactic..in favour of BN….godfather.
Yes…we need to alert and sharp.
You are very sharp….but certain guys…..no use to argue with them…..when he puts out long messages to firstly prove…show how fair he is..with a brain from the moon….talk so much weird stuffs..telling…how much he knows…and having established that status…then move to give his support to BN. You know who I am talking about.
something too hard for most here to understand.
a dumb asking a dumb question meant for the dumbo
mr. limkamput,
“a dumb asking a dumb question meant for the dumbo” – I had done telling that to him again and again but it just don’t sink into him. You know…DUMB right? ha ha ha
I think 3 questions a day for OTK really bulged his eyes and brain, he opted for a vacation ha ha ha
If you look carefully, he does have bulging eyes. A doctor look? I had never seen a doctor like him..Look like a katak..ha ha
dear kit,
PAS has no place in PR alliance unless the party has to drop it religious based ideology..
And now PAS is talking about unity government with UMNO.. Dancing and sleeping with the enemy?
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2009/06/pas-dancing-with-wolf.html
Shiok Guy
ShiokGuy:
PAS is not dancing with the enemy. A faction in PAS is responding to the carrot dangled in front of them by UMNO Youth. This faction had tasted power once in Trengganu, and are easily tempted by the power-sharing concept proposed by UMNO. The rest of PAS will remain faithful to PR.
Monsterball: Agree with you. We have to be vigilant as we move closer to 2013. The Malays have a phrase “Musuh dalam selimut” and it applies to PR as well. We must guard against those who ramble on and on with long postings that seek to divide and rule.
Godfather Says:
Yesterday at 20: 16.32
Monsterball: Agree with you. We have to be vigilant as we move closer to 2013. The Malays … and it applies to PR as well. We must guard against those who …”
correct. malays are cockroaches and must be exterminated.
Yes yes yes….TomThumb………we hard you loud and clear.
How many times must repeat the same message?
That’s your opinion…and you have a reputation to talk nonsense….to disturb this blog.
Anything new?
You want us to talk cockroaches and insects?
Why you and me are but worms too..from the beginning of humankind.
Are you talking about Charles Darwin discovery?
Jolly good start.