Posted on by Kit

“Unity talk” for PR-BN government – never arose or discussed at any PR leadership meeting

I attended the 15th PAS Muktamar opening ceremony at Stadium Melawati, Shah Alam this morning and left after lunch.

The media have been chasing after me to comment on what PAS President, Datuk Seri Hadi Awang said in a media conference after his presidential address.

I do not know what Hadi actually said, but in view of the public interest on the question of “unity talks”, I have two comments while making the general observation that political parties and political leaders must be prepared to talk to anyone on any issue concerning public interest, viz:

Firstly, that the question of unity talk to form a Pakatan Rakyat-Barisan Nasional government never arose or discussed at any Pakatan Rakyat leadership meeting.

Secondly, on the so-called unity talks to form Umno-Pas government, it is something I read in the media. The subject was never discussed or raised in any PR leadership meeting.

48 Replies to ““Unity talk” for PR-BN government – never arose or discussed at any PR leadership meeting”

  2. Forming a Pakatan Rakyat-Barisan Nasional government may not be worthwhile as PR now has the capacity and ability to wrest federal government from BN. This may well happen in the 13th GE.

    Forming such a unity government is only worthwhile if PR is a very weak political party.

  3. If democracy is practised well then it is possible for PR to take over the government after 13th GE. I, however, doubt about it as BN is so powerful at the moment that it controls everything in Malaysia, including police force, judiciary, media, etc. Just look at the Perak case.

  4. I believe it’s all mainstream media’s ‘media play’ and UMNO is behind it to create distrust and animosity among parties within Pakatan Rakyat -“batu api” that’s what UMNO/BN desperados are good for. It won’t work anymore, the people are too smart not to fall into their trap again!

  5. Not surprising that some pas people would like to see unification of pas and umno. Its understandable in fact. The two parties actually have an overlap of objectives. The fact that this is brought into the open means several things. Pas, dap, keadilan (i.e. pakatan) are more tolerant of differing views amongst themselves. That is important for it is evidence of freedom of expression. Expressing such views also means sentiments will not bottle up like in umno and barisan. Also, all views are worthwhile listening to no matter how silly because they could give those who are leading us some ideas – good ideas can equally come from one’s enemies.

    My gut feeling is this. Apart from some overlapping objectives, pas and umno actually cannot unify. Umno champions corruption and cronyism (both in the name of malay rights and nep). Pas does not. This alone will be enough to drive the two apart. Secondly, pas despite its outward conservative appearance is more receptive towards change than umno. A number of professional pas members are gaining good support and popularity in the party. That is significant. Umno on the other hand is resistant towards change. They want things to remain exactly as they are so that milking the wealth of the nation can go on non stop.

  6. Forming such a unity government is only worthwhile if PR is a very weak political party. Yhsiew

    ———————————————–

    This is the most absurd statement I ever read. So when you are weak, you should sacrifice your principles and beliefs and join forces with those whose principles and policies you detest.

    Sdr Lim, may I ask what do you mean by “must be prepared to talk to anyone on any issue concerning public interest”? Surely there is no point talking unless there are intentions to compromise or go for the middle path. So what exactly is the intention of this “unity talk”? Is PR in the hurry to join forces with BN to form the government? Is PR intending to behave like Mugabe’s Opposition in Zimbabwe?

  7. I have never come to trust this current PAS President. Give me Nik Aziz (MB Kelantan) anytime despite of his rather off-tangent remarks sometimes.

    PAS joining UMNO would indeed be a good sign for the PKR and DAP. Malaysia is changing towards a multi-cultural, multi racial and multi-religious approach to issues. Even Najib realised that n coined the 1Malaysia slogan. The younger Malay voters are more confident and less tolerant of racist policies and most will reject a extreme Malay Muslim government. If that happens, the non-Malay parties in BN will jump ship too esp the “Christian states of Sabah and Sarawak” which are the “fixed deposits” of UMNO.

    The world has changed. In the past, who has heard of Obama. We need to learn from India in managing diversity. At once stage, they invited an pure white Italian lady (Sonia Gandhi) to become PM, then they choose a Mamohan Singh to be the PM with a Muslim as the President and the Speaker of Parliament from the Communist Party. Imagine this happened in Hindu majority country.

    In Malaysia, we cannot even have a Chinese lady with 32+ service become the GM of PKNS with PAS spearheading the protest. This happened in a PR run Selangor government. Teresa Kok cannot become the Deputy MB even though precedent has been set before.

    Therefore it is better for PAS to show its colour early and DAP and PKR/PSM are forewarned to watch out for the wolf in sheep’s clothings.

    Whatever it is, kudos to DAP leaders like Kit Siang and Karpal for their steadfastness in upholding justice for all.

  8. The crack in Pakatan Rakyat is widening…… The relationship between DAP and PAS is already on the rocks….. It is a kind of an abusive marriage… PAS has to learn how to cope with jealous partner…. Divorce is the only way…

  9. Mr Michael Sun …..Well written…well said…Meanwhile, not far from here….the head of the country says that the country is not ready for non Chinese PM….Furthermore the MP who represents 14% of the country population is given a ‘clerical’ post in the cabinet…… what say you?

  11. Unity for what, and against whom are the questions that need to be answered. If it is unity so that politicians come to compromise, to have no reform against what BN has been doing in the past, and less criticism so that it would be business as usual, 308 would be a waste.

    The people are looking for a two party system so that party in power have to work, for the interests of Malaysians, to continue to stay in power. The people do not vote Pakatan so that it was strong enough to bargain to be part of the government.

    Barisan national roping in all opposition parties was a sure formula for corruption, and they have proven it. In that set up only politicians gain and the people lose.

    Unity talk at this time will be for easier life of political opportunists, and against the people.

  12. PAS may think that it is the king-maker. Majority of PAS members prefer the party cooperating with PKR and DAP. It’s suicidal to cooperate with Umno as BN/Umno is tainted with corruption which PAS abhors. Corruption can’t be wiped out in a short period. It will take at least a generation or two to wipe out corruption, as can be seen from Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines. BN will likely break up, or MCA, Gerakan and MIC completely wiped out, and seeing Sarawak and Sabah losing half of their Dewan seats to the PR. in the 13 GE
    Cintanegara, MIDA reports listing Johor, Selangor and Penang as the top 3 states receiving the most investment in the first two months of this year, 1 billion, 707 millions and 685 millions respectively. But take note that Penang has 1.7 millions people only whereas Johor has more than 3 millions and Selangor more than 4 millions people.

  13. Hadi Awang is just a figure head.
    He steps out of the line..there is a strong anti UMNO team combined together is much more powerful and influential than Hadi Awang.
    Hadi Awang has a touch of a racialist and his Islamic commitments seems to be over powered by politic.
    PAS will never leave PR or disagree with keDAILan and DAP.
    They simpky cannot be that stupid.

  14. On 5/6/2009 at 17:26.02, cintanegara said:
    The crack in Pakatan Rakyat is widening…… The relationship between DAP and PAS is already on the rocks….. It is a kind of an abusive marriage… PAS has to learn how to cope with jealous partner…. Divorce is the only way…

    In every political party, not every member would be expected to agree on everything with other members.
    Even within UMNO, the Gua Musang MP disagrees with the Perak state government power-grab which was engineered by the Pekan MP and is of the opinion that there should be a new state election.
    Don’t forget too that the old doctor is also of the opinion that the Perak monarch has not power to dismiss the state MB.
    Of course, supporters of UMNO’s BN will forget the unity & the soldarity demonstrated by the ousted Pakatan Rakyat state assemblymen & their supporters, whether they are from DAP, PAS or PKR, in the face of the abuse of power by the minions of UMNO’s BN within PDRM and the civil service…

    On 5/6/2009 at 17:57.52, cintanegara said:
    Mr Michael Sun …..Well written…well said…Meanwhile, not far from here….the head of the country says that the country is not ready for non Chinese PM….Furthermore the MP who represents 14% of the country population is given a ‘clerical’ post in the cabinet…… what say you?

    Yeah, for sure Mr Michael Sun has a good point there.
    But just look at our own backyard here lah where we are told by those in power that the country is also not ready for a non-indigenous PM, but the process can be gradual, first by allowing a Sabahan or Sarawakian indigenous PM since after all, Sabahan & Sarawakian MPs are currently the major backbone of the simple majority now enjoyed by UMNO’s BN in the Parliament.
    And do note that in that country not far from here, its first president was from that 14% minority. And by law, that country’s national anthem must be officially sung in the language of that 14% minority. Not forgetting to mention, the rights of that 14% minority are also guaranteed in that country’s constitution…

  15. Let us all not worry over what Hadi Awang says and think. Even if he proposes to the Party to merge with UMNO, at least much, much more than half its members will not go along with him. Then again, if it happened it would only be a temporary set-back for Pakatan Rakyat as the partnership would become less problematic, making it, in fact, stronger. Umno and PAS can sleep on the same bed, but they will dream different dreams. PAS experienced it once before, so I fully agree with Monsterball that “they simply cannot be that stupid” as to get bitten a second time.

  16. The professor Limkamput does not understand Lim Kit Siang is just the opposite of UMNO leaders..attitudes and mentalities??
    LKS always think he is an elected representative of the people…and will talk with UMNO …..for the people’s sake..if there is a slight chance UMNO will do things good for all people.
    Unfortunately…how LKS thinks is just the opposite of how UMNO leaders are thinking.
    UMNO thinks..they own the people and country…even God.
    But LKS is always aware..he is elected by the people to voice out for the people and he is surely with the people.
    Now go check out.is UMNO showing same character?
    Limkamput trying to be cute with Lim Kit Siang will not work.
    Readers know what “put” is up to.

  17. “Secondly, on the so-called unity talks to form Umno-Pas government, it is something I read in the media. The subject was never discussed or raised in any PR leadership meeting.” kit

    apparently talks have been going on behind your back

  23. ///The worst is they know the other party is very corrupted, they still plan to partner with them corrupted party///- a2a commented.

    Political parties and polticians exist ultimately to win elections and assume power, and for this reason, compromises of principles have to be made in spite of public protestations to the contrary!

    And for that also, some of them feel that even a pious party can collaborate with a corrupt party based on common elements of religion and national interest/reconciliation – just like a secular pluralistic one (DAP) can also collaborate with a theocratic one like PAS based on common goals of social justice, war against graft and corruption and misgovernance!

    Ideological differences are therefore downplayed, commonalities of purposes played up – all in selective fashion.

    “Unity talk” is but euphemism for exploring power sharing prospects. This is one route explored by the more conservative faction within PAS to get to their destination (power sharing) faster; the other more liberal faction thinks that the more effective way – in light of the diversity of Malaysian demographics and cultures – is via steadfast commitment with other parties (PKR & DAP) within Pakatan Rakyat Coalition. This contest of different approaches within PAS towards same goal (PAS being dominant in political power) is in turn played out in the current contest for the deputy President Post.

    In terms of goal, it is wishful thinking that PAS, notwithstanding different approaches towards attaining it, will change its ultimate raison de etre to establish an Theocratic state. Will a chameleon cease being one just because its outer skin, with special skin cells with colour (or pigment) in them change colour in response to changes in the light, or temperature, or mood???

    Yet large swathes of people alienated with BN’s politics would – hope against hope – wish it would be so. This is because they are convinced of the so called existing realities that (1) BN will never reform its corrupt practices or communal approaches causing the country to hurtle towards the status of a failed state; (2) larger Malay Muslim vote leverage implies that the choice is between either UMNO (leading BN) or PAS (leading PR) with no other alternatives (PKR within PR being the mere intermediary/power broker bridging the chasm separating secular pluralistic ideologies of DAP from theocratic one of PAS). It is an approach of lets give the Devil that we don’t know a chance and boot the one that we already know – rather than the other approach of the Devil we know being better than the one that we not know! Never mind it is a truimph of hope over realities or dictates of logic.

    ///it means kit thinks pas leaders cannot be trusted/// – TomThumb. This is obvious: after attending the whole morning session of 15th PAS Muktamar Kit said to media “I do not know what Hadi actually said…” :)

    And he later denied/refuted Abdul Hadi’s claims to reporters that PAS’ allies in Pakatan had reacted positively to the formation of a unity government with BN.

    (Jeffrey – it is with regard to what Hadi said at the media conference, not what he said when opening the PAS Muktamar. kit)

  24. limkamput Says:
    Yesterday at 16: 31.41

    Forming such a unity government is only worthwhile if PR is a very weak political party. Yhsiew

    ———————————————–

    This is the most absurd statement I ever read. So when you are weak, you should sacrifice your principles and beliefs and join forces with those whose principles and policies you detest.
    ==================================================

    Political parties which make up the unity government remain independent parties – they do not form a coalition. It certainly does not mean when PR forms unity government with BN, PR will become part of BN and must follow BN values and principles.

    “National Unity Governments,” also known as “Governments of National Salvation,” tend to be formed in times of crisis or political turmoil–such as the aftermath of a Civil War.

    Parties lay aside their differences and work for the common good. The advantage being that more things can be done, and done more quickly, if everybody is on the same page instead of posturing for Party advantage.

    A unity government will NOT work for Malaysia as PR and BN do not hold common beliefs and values. A unity government will create more crises for Malaysia rather than solve national problems.

    Anwar will probably become the Deputy Prime Minister if a unity government is ever formed in Malaysia.

  26. The issue really in people’s mind is that whether PR can hold together if
    1) it suffers a major setback or
    2) BN continue to be hold on to power.

    The entire PR movement is based on a forward momentum. Its not designed to suffer setbacks or even stall. If it stalls or have a setback, then all sort of differences between PAS and DAP will be raised.

    In the end, the surest way to check PAS and move forward for DAP is to move forward in East Malaysia. The call by PAS to make gains in East Malaysia shows PAS knows that if DAP/PKR are the big winners in East Malaysia, its long term goals and ideals for PAS will never materialise although its the most natural thing to happen and the original intention of the founding of this nation. PAS may share some fundamental similarities with its PR partners BUT it also share the same fundamental flaws of UMNO which is why the unity talk was so naturally reactionary to the result of 308.

  28. “It is an approach of lets give the Devil that we don’t know a chance and boot the one that we already know – rather than the other approach of the Devil we know being better than the one that we not know! Never mind it is a truimph of hope over realities or dictates of logic. ” Wannabe QC

    What nonsense are you spewing ? Better not to boot out the bunch of liars, cheats and thieves known as BN, and don’t give a chance to a party that has consistently disavowed corruption and cheating ?

    This wannabe lawyer is talking like he has no children or grandchildren’s future to think about . All he cares about is the theories of “on one hand it is X, on the other hand it is Y”. Triumph of hope over the dictates of logic ? A wannabe lawyer’s perverse logic, but not ours.

  29. But LKS is always aware..he is elected by the people to voice out for the people and he is surely with the people.
    Now go check out.is UMNO showing same character? Loose cannon ball
    ————————————–

    Hmmm, apparently we should talk to people we consider no hope of reforming. I guess this is how a loose cannon works.

    Oh, may be the loose cannon is thinking Sdr Lim should be talking to UMNO since PAS is talking. I guess we are never tired of political expediency all these years. Hello, PAS can go to Timbuktu for all I care, Malaysia must forever remains a cosmopolitan, secular and liberal society. We talk about going down that slippery road all the time, and definitely conceding to PAS idiosyncrasy is one them. Political expediency has brought GERAKAN into BN. Where is that party today?

    I think we just have to be confident of our ideal. DAP stands for non racial, non religious and inclusive Malaysia. Why are we afraid? Only racists, bigots and fascists are against such ideal. If we want a steak we have to wait and persevere, otherwise like loose cannon ball and tom-dumb we go for a cheap burger. We are never short of cheap burger commentators here, the great Sir Jeffrey included.

  31. Lets do some homework now –

    If PAS really merge with umno now, what would be the positions of all PR state govt?

    Would YB Nizer and other YBs leave PAS should that happen? Another few by elections?

    What would be the position of Sabah and Sarawak should PAS (always rejected in Sabah) and UMNO joins?

  32. Thanks Kit, I stand corrected.

    In respect to Godfather’s posting Today at 09: 16.33 (2 hours ago), I had merely mentioned the approach (1) of “lets give the Devil that we don’t know a chance and boot the one that we already know” in contrast to the other approach of (2) “the Devil we know being better than the one that we not know!”

    With regard to approach (1), I had intended it to mean PAS or a significant section of it will not relinguish its objective to establish its goal of theocratic state, which it intends to do so via double talk and manipulating itself into position of dominance within Pakatan Rakyat, and that it would be a “triumph of hope over realities or dictates of logic” to expect PAS to forgo this agenda.

    Although PAS has “consistently disavowed corruption and cheating”, the quarrel here with PAS is not that it is insincere about being against corruption and cheating – this remains to be tested if it were in the seat of power – but the quarrel is about its sincerity in establishing its theocratic Islamic state in a pluralistic society such as ours (contrary to even the DAP’s platform).

    In questioning approach (1), did I say anywhere specifically that we necessarily have (therefore) to embrace approach (2) and tolerate and live with a coalition of “liars, cheats and thieves known as BN” as Godfather puts it? Tell me where did I say so?

    To Godfather I would say, get your facts right on what I said or have not said before you proceed to distort them as much as possible in line with your rigid and ossified convictions drawn on black/white axis with no grey in between your ears.

  33. “We are never short of cheap burger commentators here, the great Sir Jeffrey included.” – Lim Kam Put

    To be included in your good opinion is, to me, not a prospect to be relished, and as regards arguing with you on any matter invokes immediately the old adage – that one should never argue with a fool. Anyone watching might not be able to tell the difference!

  36. Using different people to say different things for damage control is the forte. After all the sabre-rattling of Unity talk, Nasharudin now said PAS president was misquoted by media, and next breath, declared “the doors were never closed for us to discuss with whomsoever is out there…” And after talking of PAS taking dominant position in PR to lead, Nasharudin now turned around and said ” there is no need to appoint one party to lead”. It is like telling different things to different audience. Can one believe in whatever said?

  38. “If we want a steak we have to wait and persevere, otherwise like loose cannon ball and tom-dumb we go for a cheap burger. We are never short of cheap burger commentators here, the great Sir Jeffrey included.”

    final notice to you limkamput.

    do not trivialize this blog nor bash visitors to this blog. show respect for the blog host.

  39. Sdr Kit said unity talk never discussed in PR leadership meeting. But he forgot PAS does not need the permission of PR leadership to begin talk with UMNO. PAS also does not need the permission of PR leadership to leave PR to form unity government with UMNO. Mukhriz can’t wait for this to happen so that things can be back to “normal”.

    NO matter how corrupted or how inefficient the country has become, it is always that “Malay-Islamic thing” taking precedence over everything else. All these PAS talks about being clean, transparent and fair are baloney.

    May be it is time to lose Manek Urai to knock in some senses.

  40. limkamput Says:

    Today at 21: 55.13 (12 minutes ago)
    Sdr Kit said unity talk never discussed in PR leadership meeting. But he forgot PAS does not need the permission …”

    since when has a member of any loose coalition needed to obtain permission to back stab another??

  44. “PAS president Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang said today he was confident that the idea of establishing an Umno-PAS solidarity government he had proposed could be possible if all quarters understood the intention to set it up.” Malaysian Insider

    kiss your ass goodbye dap

  45. Let Pas leaders decide for themselves what’s best for their Party. Assuming that they are keen to form a ‘unity government’ with UMNO, how is UMNO going to distribute the posts, and where will they put MCA and MIC? Unless PAS is prepared not to haggle over the question of positions in the ‘unity government’ Is this going to happen? I should think not.

    Pas admission into the BN coalition will change the power equation between Mahathir-Muhyiddin camp and Najib-Hishamuddin camp, with the latter group becoming much,much more stronger. In such scenario, the in-fighting within UMNO will become so fierce that the possibility of a irreconcilable split can occur.

    Any decision by Pas leaders to join UMNO/BN will not have the blessings all members of the Party. In that sense, Pas members will break rank, weakening the Party.

    Having said all that, I think all these news about ‘unity talk’ is UMNO’s ploy to cause division in PR to weaken it.

    But we know in politics what we think impossible can become possible. Again, and given the current political situations the various parties are undergoing, power-sharing is OUT for now. Certainly also NOT in the immediate future.

    In conclusion, whichever path PAS takes is going to help PR in the 13th GE. Let us not worry too much. Let us stay united and march on.

  46. PAS joining UMNO is great news for Opposition….the quicker this happen before the next election, the better.

    Many people are sick of the current situation in our country and a change of government is fundalmental to the survival of our multi racial and religious country in a competitive and globalised world….an all inclusive and tolerant multi racial and religious political party is our best hope.

  47. 1. BN/UMNO will break up.
    2. GERAKAN AND MIC join PR
    3. MCA explode like a bomb
    4. Some ex-UMNO members join PAS, some join PRK, and the remainder form all kind of rozak opposition parties
    5. Agong appoint Nik as the new PM
    6. DPM 1 = Anwar
    7. DPM 2 = LKS
    8. DPM 3 = Semi-value
    9. DPM 4 = Ko-Sukun

  48. Following the break up of UMNO:
    1. Najib married Altantuya in hell
    2. Roast Mah migrated to Mongolia
    3. Moo Hee Din = moo-moo-here and moo-moo-there
    4. Kris-Boy = Make a new Malay movie featuring the kris
    5. Nazri becomes a full-time taxi-driver
    6. Rice Yah Tim = sell chicken rice
    7. KJ = sell KY
    8. JJ become a pimp

Leave a Reply