By Farish A. Noor
The opening speech to the 55th Muktamar of the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party PAS should be read closely and given the consideration that is due to it, particularly as it comes from the party President himself, Ustaz Hadi Awang, and in some respects gives an accurate reflection of the state of the party and the mindset of its senior leadership. Having said that, the speech of Hadi Awang that was delivered during the opening session of the Muktamar was both rich and complex, and should be read closely by those of us who are interested in the political fortunes of PAS and the future of the party in Malaysia.
Perhaps the most salient feature of the speech was the straightforward declaration of PAS’s oppositional stand vis a vis UMNO, which was described by Hadi in his speech in rather negative terms. The tone of Ustaz Hadi’s speech would resonate with the members of PAS who were worried about any possible compromise on the part of their own Islamist party and the possibility of a PAS-UMNO tie-up in the near future. After describing UMNO as a party that was materialist, corrupt and a lackey to the British colonial powers in the past, one can safely assume that any notion of a PAS-UMNO marriage of convenience has been put on the shelf for the moment at least…
However it was also noted by this observer that Ustaz Hadi’s speech had few references to the Pakatan Rakyat, whose other component parties – notably the PKR and DAP – were casually referred to as fellow travelers in the long cause. One wonders how and why the references to the other parties of the Pakatan seemed rather tame and lukewarm at best, and where PAS was locating itself in the overall constellation of Malaysian politics in the immediate present. Indeed, where is PAS heading?
It is interesting to note that the slogan for the Muktamar was ‘Islam leading the process of Change’ (Islam Memimpin Perubahan). Furthermore the speech was littered with numerous references to the Ulama of PAS and the role that the Ulama have played not only in the development of the party but also in the history of Malaysia as a whole.
Thus all in all, one had the distinct impression that this was a speech that was meant primarily for internal consumption, and somewhat self-referential. PAS is still looking for its place and role in Malaysian politics, and by distancing itself substantially from UMNO and symbolically from the Pakatan, we get the impression of a PAS that feels the need to stand on its own two feet. Or does this reflect the concerns of the Ulama of PAS in particular, and can this be read as a return to the Ulama-led politics of PAS from the 1980s to the late 1990s?
There are several key themes and concerns that perhaps should be looked at closely and critically:
The first issue is that of the Ulama of PAS, the definition of what and who constitutes an Ulama and what role the Ulama are meant to have in society and politics. This, for me, was the first stumbling block to the Muktamar and the speech by Ustaz Hadi. With all due respect to the Ulama of PAS (and I write this as a fervent admirer of Tuan Guru Nik Aziz) I would like to re-state the obvious fact that the term ‘Ulama’ should not be confused and essentialised solely to refer to religiously-trained and educated scholars. For since the earliest days of Islamic education going back to the Ferenggi Mahal madrasah of Lucknow and its Dars-e Nizami curriculum, it should be noted that the term Ulama referred to scholars who were trained as both scientific and religious scholars. Hence it would be totally wrong for us to maintain this divisive dichotomy of ‘Ulama’ and ‘Professionals’ as the latter are likewise educated individuals trained in their special sciences and skills. So why was the dichotomy introduced in the prelude to this Mukatamar, and why hasn’t anyone pointed out that professional scientists, technocrats, engineers and educationists should qualify as ‘Ulama’ too, to mean persons of skill and knowledge? The subtle power-play between the two factions became rather obvious with too many references to the Ulama of PAS and the lament that their contribution have been marginalized. No, nobody has undermined or downgraded the role of the Ulama in PAS or Malaysian politics: We are simply stating the historical fact that PAS’s development was the result of the efforts of Ulama, Scholars, professionals, activists and lay members as well… Some Ulama in PAS (as in other Islamic parties worldwide) may not be comfortable with the idea of sharing power with professionals, but we need to understand that in the complex modern world of today we are not going to get anywhere in areas such as finance, transparency, anti-corruption etc without the help of some professional technocrats and accountants too. The religious scholars of PAS simply have to understand this simple fact once and for all.
Secondly I was struck by the tone of the speech when it came to address the issue of East Malaysia. Ustaz Hadi once again reiterated the call for PAS to spread its message to East Malaysia in terms of its political outreach and missionary (Dakwah) work. But has anyone bothered to ask what our fellow East Malaysians want? As a Malaysian who grew up in East Malaysia, I am sympathetic to our East Malaysian brothers and sisters who seem to be cast as our ‘poor neighbours’ who need our help all the time. When will West Malaysians realize that the flow of ideas and expertise can and should go both ways, and that West Malaysians have a lot to learn from East Malaysians too, especially in the area of harmonious inter-communal relations? (After all 13 May happened in West Malaysia, not East Malaysia, remember?) So rather than talk about the need for West Malaysian parties (both from the BN and Pakatan) going to East Malaysia all the time, why don’t we listen to our East Malaysian counterparts who may teach us a few useful lessons in nation-building as well?
Thirdly, the stand that the Assembly took on the Language issue was problematic to say the least. On more than one occasion, the national language – Bahasa Malaysia – was described as Bahasa Melayu, and thus re-essentialised as the linguistic and cultural backbone of one specific ethnic community. We need to get our semantics right and de-racialised Bahasa Malaysia as the language of all Malaysian citizens if we seriously wish to build a new Malaysia that is racially, culturally and politically equal, to be shared by all Malaysians. One of the first steps that has to be taken is to de-essentise our languages so that Madarin is no longer seen as the exclusive monopoly of Malaysian Chinese, Tamil no longer seen as the monopoly of Malaysians of Indian origin, and Bahasa Malaysia as the common language of all Malaysian citizens. But how can this ever happen if every community sticks to its narrow sense of identity and claims exclusive monopoly over the very language we use to communicate with each other?
All in all, it is clear that PAS has come a long way and credit is due to this party that was built over half a century of hard work and selfless dedication by its members. Once again, I was impressed by the professionalism of those present and the efficient performance of the organizers. But we sincerely hope and pray that PAS will throw its lot with its comrades in the Pakatan, and remember that PAS’s gains in March 2008 was the result of it being in the Pakatan. For that reason, PAS’s leaders need to recognize the needs and demands of the Malaysian public, and be sensitive to the new political realities on the ground in Malaysia. PAS has a vital role to play in Malaysia today and long into the future. We wish it all the best, and sincerely hope that as it struggles to find its way it will cast a glance to its comrades who have stood by it all along- not least the plural and complex society that is the Malaysian public of today. Don’t let us down, PAS.
PAS is still struggling whether to be Malay first or Muslim later, or whatever, all the time Hadi is leading PAS with some kind of hidden agenda! People vote PAS not because of PAS, and it is time their leaders wake up to this reality. I am not saying PAS cannot change, but I am sure PAS can be destroy.
PAS is lead by a President to go where the wind blows.
Fortunately PAS loves Malaysians of all races more than UMNO.
If the wind blows for the President to get close to UMNO…there is a team of wind breakers….stopping him.
For the time being…lets say politics can be unpredictable and PAS is unpredictable. However…the wind breakers combine together…are more powerful than the President..dead against PAS teaming up with UMNO.
Therefore lets take Hadi Awang speech as ceremonial and not pay too much attention what he says.
I always say..Hadi Awang is PAS weakness..not strength……and I still stick to my belief.
So rather than talk about the need for West Malaysian parties (both from the BN and Pakatan) going to East Malaysia all the time, why don’t we listen to our East Malaysian counterparts who may teach us a few useful lessons in nation-building as well? Farish A. Noor
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You have wishful thinking. The reality is East Malaysia is colonised by West Malaysia a long time ago. The hegemony is not going to end soon, whether or not UMNO or PAS is in power.
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But we sincerely hope and pray that PAS will throw its lot with its comrades in the Pakatan, and remember that PAS’s gains in March 2008 was the result of it being in the Pakatan. Farish A. Noor
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Wishful thinking again. Even if PAS knew the election result was due to Pakatan, the bigotry and fundamentalism have never left the party and those at the helm. The reality is this country gives too much face to so-called religious people. Sometimes I wonder how much religions have contributed to this world other than creating divisiveness and bigotry.
Politics are for good governance of the country for the benefit of all. Religions are for the purifying of ones spirit. They can cross somewhere but not everywhere.
A lot of countries are multi-races, noticeably, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA and also China. And, they are more multi-religious. The daily lives are the basis requirement of all People, such as Accommodation, Education, Food, Medical and Transportation, etc.. Fairness are what the People should enjoy under Human Rights – to be clearly stipulated, motivated and enforced by Constitution and Laws. Any religion cannot stand on its own if they cannot incorporate with the physical requirement of man kind. A good attitude can be guided by a good religion but at the end of the day, it should be the right Philosophy that help it grows and propagates.
Buddhism from India had incorporate with the Chinese Philosophy of a society to make it survive and grow not only in Chinese but also much in the oriental. Chinese were and remains as one of the official language in China even when Mongolian and the Man People had came to rule China for 200-300 years. Language should be for the convenient of all and not necessary the key identity of a Bright nation. English is still the key language for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA and more are taking it for the sake of communication. Nevertheless, French, Spanish, or Portuguese, or even China are popular among the five. People speaking their own language should be encouraged and same on other language if they provide another convenience or cultural means. A lot of Chinese are speaking English and other languages, even they have the highest percentage in world population.
I hope the Politician here will be able to have a Global mind starting from People!! Only when Human Rights are practiced and modified with allowance to cope with Malaysian situations, then, I believe the chance of being proud as Malaysian will be there. Let Human Rights provide a fair and respectful space for all religions. And, so be in Peace for any race, any religion, any age and both sexes!
PLEASE DO SPEAK FOR ALL MALAYSIANS BEFORE THINKING OF PUTTING A FOOT INTO THE FEDERAL!!
BY RIGHT there should not be extreme religion involve in politics.
BECAUSE RELIGION CAN USE THE NAME OF GOD CAUSING ONE CANT DEBATE OF ANY QUESTION OR ARGUE, EVEN SOMETIMES IT IS NOT LOGIC.
Read Tun M speech on the defination of Ulamak….
Just beware of PAS, they cannot be trusted. It would be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, trading racial discrimination for religious discrimination… from political corruption to religious extremism.
You have wishful thinking. The reality is East Malaysia is colonised by West Malaysia a long time ago. The hegemony is not going to end soon, whether or not UMNO or PAS is in power.
It is not wishful thinking on the part of Farish A. Noor. The 12th GE has made them realize that they can be the king-maker in Malaysian politics. There will surely come a time when both Sarawak and Sabah people wake up at the same time and fight for their rights through the ballet box. East Malaysian voters would one day give the B/N a rude awakening!
DAULAT TUANKU!
If race is an issue for PAS, then PAS is no different from UMNO and true Islam is compromised.
Politicians should not exploit race or religion at the expense of a multi racial and religious country for narrow, short term, divisive and damaging political aims.
PAS can join UMNO…….but more importantly is the increasing political awareness of non Malays, irrespective of their minority status.
Too bad no one showed Obama’s speech in Cairo during this whole thing. The fact no one debated it in that context shows how still out of touch the Islamist in this country is.
The fact of the matter is Obama outlined what is essentially are the only options open between Muslim and non-Muslim. The fact of the matter is Islamist in this country don’t accept them too. Freedom of religion, democracy is MORE than election every few years, playing by same rules whether you are in power or not, etc..
It is not an Islamic vision BUT it is the universal globalised vision that will continue to gain popularity in ALL countries especially in Malaysia and the likes of PAS have to answer before they can hope to ever dream making this country in their vision..
The Malaysian Insider
SHAH ALAM, June 6 – Datuk Husam Musa today narrowly defeated incumbent Nasharudin Mat Isa for the post of PAS deputy president, according to sources familiar with the election process.
The Malaysian Insider understands Nasharudin’s defeat was caused by a last minute swing to another contender Mohamad Sabu, who came in third.
The victory, if confirmed, puts a stop to months of speculation that the Islamist party would abandon the Pakatan Rakyat coalition in favour of Umno.
Husam represents the pro-Pakatan faction in the party which favours strengthening the coalition led by opposition leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Nasharudin who became the deputy president in 2005 was largely seen as the key figure behind attempt to unite the party with Umno due to his involvement in the clandestine Malay unity talk last year.
The Bachok MP also received the backing of the conservative religious scholars in the party.
In launching his campaign, Husam called Nasharudin as being “too liberal with Umno”, adding that unseating the two-term deputy president would make the party’s direction clearer.
Nasharudin in return made a last minute denial on Tuesday night when opening the PAS Youth muktamar, but Husam accused him of hiding the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZqQy9GMG1Y
I was hoping for Husam to win all along due to his view of more co-operation with PKR and DAP rather than with UMNO. Husam is one of the more favourable leaders together with Nizar who is popular with PKR and DAP.
Husam is politically cunning. This win is actually amazing how he managed to convince PAS delegates UMNO is worst devil than those secular-liberals that are PR partners.
We need politically cunning people who are favourable towards PKR and DAP. Never trust UMNO, they are the worst.
By the way, an off-topic. I am commenting as someone who is well-versed in the art of face-reading, Husam is indeed a cunning person, this can be read from his eyes. Nasharuddin is fierce but not as cunning as Husam.
Frankly I am very skittish about Hadi Awang. His past utterances is not reassuring at all and his persistence in forming a coalition government with UMNO is a bad taste in the mouth of Pakatan.
PAS is getting a bit arrogant lately. Their insistence that the PM post should go to them is too inconsiderate and they have big dreams to outdo UMNO. The proposed party complex in Putrajaya is set to rival that of the UMNO PWTC headquarters in all its monstrosity and self-aggrandizement. This is a foretaste of things that would turned ugly once a party begins to count its eggs before they are hatched.
In short, I think Hadi Awang is a closet racist whose actions are carefully couched in religious rhetorics. If we are not careful it will be the case of jumping out of the kuali into the fire.
PAS should stick to its Islamist stance, and not try to set its appeal to a middle-of-the-road approach. It should just aim to appeal to the 10 pct of the population who wants an Islamic state, and it should continue to Islamicise Kelantan and Trengganu.
If it wants to remain in Pakatan, it’s OK so long as it recognises that within Pakatan, there is democracy at work, and the majority decisions are carried in that coalition. It brings 20 parliamentary seats to the table, and it probably will carry Kelantan, Trengganu and Kedah at the next GE.
Forget about trying to appeal to the moderates and liberals. We have PKR for that. Just go for the 20 seats, and for the states that have a good chance for the party.
We on the other hand should let PAS fight for their fan base. Let them tell their supporters they will fight for an Islamic state, for a clean and trustworthy government. Let them tell their fan base that stealing the rakyat’s money is a crime, that they will fight to impose Hudud laws so that the BN thieves will all be walking around with no arms.
So long as they understand that they are constrained by the workings of PR, who are we to object to what they stand for, what they want to fight for ?
“PAS should stick to its Islamist stance, and not try to set its appeal to a middle-of-the-road approach. It should just aim to appeal to the 10 pct of the population who wants an Islamic state, and it should continue to Islamicise Kelantan and Trengganu” – Godfather.
Godfather : Are you obtuse, just naïve or in plain denial?
You think PAS is stupid or have modest ambition to be confined to only 3 states Kelantan, Trengganu and Kedah or 10 pct of population – and be a mere pawn in Pakatan rakyat other partners game to use its numbers to evict BN without giving it (PAS) a shot at its ultimate objective?? Hadi Awang already talked about PAS being dominant force/back bone of PR (like alternative UMNO) to lead the govt if PR won elections (Pg 28 The Star, 6th June). It is to realise the objective of forming an Islamic state. Even now they have been talking of having islamic influence on all Pakatan controlled states. (See the interference in Selangor state administration). They are interested in fast attaining power – and to share it with BN if necessary via “Unity Govt” per Hadi Nasharudin/Ulama faction. They even prepared to say that PR coalition partners have no problem with that even though Kit has refuted that! Take the more liberal ‘endrogen’ professional faction led by Husam. Their opposition to unity talk is more of PAS playing second fiddle to UMNO whereas what they want is to play first fiddle to PR. Hence some talk now that PAS candidate should be PM even if the common tacit understanding has all along been that coveted position goes to PKR’s Anwar Ibrahim, the Opposition Head.
If the aspirations they voice now were voiced then before 2008 GE would either DAP or PKR have agreed to collaborate with it under Pakatan Rakyat ? What is the common manifesto of PR? The last I heard it was to establish a welfare state reinstating democracy and good governance by booting BN. Was it to include PAS’s agenda to establish the theocratic state?
So what the heck are you talking about – “PAS should stick to its Islamist stance, and not try to set its appeal to a middle-of-the-road approach. We on the other hand should let PAS fight for their fan base. Let them tell their supporters they will fight for an Islamic state, (albeit) for a clean and trustworthy government.” Did other PR partners agree to this?
Godfather further said, “So long as they understand that they are constrained by the workings of PR, who are we to object to what they stand for, what they want to fight for?”
In the first place do they feel constrained by the workings of PR or more the other way around PR partners feel constrained by PAS workings (which by the way PAS is well organised in electoral machinery and demionstrations)?
On the other part of what Godfather said “who are we to object to what they stand for, what they want to fight for?”, yah, fine don’t askby by double talk and double face for our votes then!
Ooops, correction per 3rd para of posting above – “Erdogan” professional faction : not ‘endrogen’!
If I have read correctly, PAS does not deserve my vote. I rather waste my vote for the power hungry PAS.
Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that Nizar lost the MB position. It maybe good for non-muslim.
hadi awang is the leader cant be trusted. he is welcome to lead his party to join umno BN now or before GE13. voter who voted for PAS in last GE, should treat this as lesson and should reject PAS in next GE13.
REJECT PAS IN NEXT GE !!!!!
more like pas is rejecting you!
“Maybe it is a blessing in disguise that Nizar lost the MB position. It maybe good for non-muslim.”
yep
maybe
Sdr Kit said unity talk never discussed in PR leadership meeting. But he forgot PAS does not need the permission of PR leadership to begin talk with UMNO. PAS also does not need the permission of PR leadership to leave PR to form unity government with UMNO. Mukhriz can’t wait for this to happen so that things can be back to “normal” again, how nice.
NO matter how corrupted or how inefficient the country has become, it is always that “Malay-Islamic thing” taking precedence over everything else. All these PAS talks about being clean, transparent and fair are baloney.
May be it is time to lose Manek Urai to knock in some senses.
never work with infidels
One have to go to their core reading.
Think, it say that it is not sin to tell lies for the goodness of god/ or religion. These are the real core problem, it encourage them to do so, after done it they say god allow them do it.
Of course, it depend whether the lies will be doing others damage or vital to their rights.
“PAS president Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang said today he was confident that the idea of establishing an Umno-PAS solidarity government he had proposed could be possible if all quarters understood the intention to set it up.” Malaysian Insider
you can kiss your ass goodbye dap
For starters it is pleasant enough to witness that PAS could work with PKR and DAP to give birth to PAKATAN RAKYAT and collectively avoided multi-cornered crusaders to fight against BN’s syaitans in the last GE and such unity still holds till now.(perlu sentuh kayu !). The sensible next step is to immediately get a BC for the new born so that it carries a legitimate ID for all purposes of belonging and humble dignity, primarily the next GE. Whatever short comings that may still linger on should be multilaterally kept in the PR freezer with three different padlocks with three different keys to be deposited one in the deepest ocean, one blasted into deep space and the last one in BN’ keranda at the coming GE should ever there be one. After that it should be plain sailing surfing any tsunami at all on consficated “APANAMA” .
If the Alliance formula is the only way to unseat BN, then PK might have to copy, allowing PAS to be the leader of the alternate government. PAS wants a theocratic state, and even if it has its way, that would be better than police state.
The voters want to have a choice between two alternate governments. Should PAS alliance change to be bad, people can still go back to BN which by then might have no need to continue with its cronyism, and hopefully reduced racism.
The worst for the country is to have PAS and UMNO team up. While PAS still have the hope to be the leader of the alternate government, they will pursue it. PKR has so far Anwar to offer. We do not know whether BN would not tie Anwar up with other trump-up charges. Pakatan would have to look for possible alternative in PAS. Nizar proved to be a good MB, and there are certainly other PAS leaders who have so far not been swayed by UMNO’s opportunity for wealth and influence who might make good PM material.
Governing and gaining votes have some differences. I would rather trust politicians from PAS than those from UMNO. Well educated UMNO leaders still harp on racism; what hope have we with the lesser endowed?
“The worst for the country is to have PAS and UMNO team up” – Loh.
I don’t see this as necessarily the case. The worst of Malaysian Politicians must team up so that the Best can re-align and team up the other way.
Eventually – but definitely not by the time of next general election- Malaysians will be divided into only two broad groups: (1) those who still believe in exclusivist policies whether based on race or religion (“Exclusivist Coalition”) and (2) those who yearn for unity under inclusivist and liberal policies transcending race, religion based on real national unity (“Inclusivist Coalition”).
Political coalitions will be re-structured in line with the above alignment of the voters/electorate who are consumers determining by their votes.
Whether the coalition in power is Exclusivist Coalition or Inclusivist Coalition depends on majority electorate and a function of their maturity nurtured from confidence.
It must be a high level of maturity for the Inclusivist coalition to come to power and be able to maintain it.
Let the Pious team up with the Corrupt.
Only 3 things can happen by such a team up:
1. The Pious shows corrupt face. Hypocrisy is shorned off;
2. The Corrupt gets a bit more pious and less corrupt;
3. Both the Pious and Corrupt each becomes a rojak of piety and corruption.
Its not the worst thing, any of these scenarios. People will see the more vividly the truth beyond rhetorics. No point they are made to support and vote for parties and personalities with wool in their eyes.
To DAP and PKR, let’s lose Manek Urai. Supporting PAS is more than supporting corrupted UMNO! It is supporting hypocrite, religious bigots and the corrupt. I wonder what PAS would say if DAP starts to have secret negotiation with MCA and Gerakan? When are we going to move away from Malay-Islamic centric Malaysia? What is theocratic state? Can it provide solutions to modern Malaysia?
DAP and PKR must take note that they are engaging with the exclusionist party at their own peril. I say appeal direct to the populace and let all right minded men and women join the right minded parties. A political party with exclusionist and domineering tendency like PAS and UMNO can never be a right partner. They can have each other.
We can still see there are many stupid Malaysian protect their special rights to block others smart Malaysian to perform for country Malaysia.
What special rights? It is just a rights temporary to raise their status/financial. It is not permanent. It stated in the Federation Constitution can be review times to times to reduce.
Without in the early days CHINESE and INDIAN hardworking created the wealth developing the jungle. This country maybe still far behind as third country.
All these people want special rights they are greedy and selfish, are dragging this country developing with full capacity utilize every smart Malaysian it have.
A BUNCH OF SELFISH AND GREEDY PEOPLE.
All these people want special rights they are greedy and selfish, are dragging this country down, block developing with full capacity utilize every smart Malaysian it have.
A BUNCH OF SELFISH AND GREEDY PEOPLE
TELL THIS BUNCH OF SELFISH AND GREEDY PEOPLE.
VISIT AND LOOK AT GOOGLE EARTH.
ORANG BODOH.
WAKE UP.
“Whether the coalition in power is Exclusivist Coalition or Inclusivist Coalition depends on majority electorate and a function of their maturity nurtured from confidence.” Crapshooter Extraordinaire
Boy, I didn’t know if any coalition in power depends on majority electorate. Extraordinary observation.
The QC Wannabe writes foot-long postings in flowery language to mask the fact that he is just an anti-Islamist. When confronted by the choice of UMNO or PAS, he runs to UMNO because in his own mind, PAS is evil, PAS’ objectives are evil. When he holds a ballot paper in his hand, he thinks “on the one hand, UMNO is corrupt, but on the other hand PAS could be even more corrupt” which is probably the reason why he has never voted one way or the other.
History is made by people who make a stand. History is not made by people who sit on the fence, pontificate and do nothing. Like I said in previous posting, this QC Wannabe is torn between his two hands, and he ends up holding only one thing in both hands – and that isn’t pretty-looking.
IF EVERY COUNTRY LAND CAN TALK.
I BELIEVE MALAYSIAN LAND WILL ASK THIS BUNCH OF SELFISH AND GREEDY PEOPLE (after 52 years still demand the temporary special rights) OUT OF HIM(MALAYSIA).
BECAUSE OF THESE BUNCH OF SELFISH AND GREEDY PEOPLE, DRAGING DOWN HIM(MALAYSIA) TO DEVELOPE IN FULL CAPACITY AND UTILIZE HIS SMART SEED(MALAYSIAN) TO DEVELOP HIM TO COMPETE HIS BROTHERS(OTHER COUNTRIES).
LIKE ONE OF HIS BROTHER (SINGAPORE) IS OUTSMART HIM(MALAYSIAN) VERY FAR ADVANCE DEVELOPED OF HIM(MALAYSIA).
MALAYSIA “ORANG BODOH. PLEASE GO SOMEWHERE ELSE IF YOU STILL BLOCK/DISTRUBE ME(MALAYSIA). DON’T DISTURBE ME(MALAYSIA) TO DEVELOPE FULL CAPACITY WITH MY SMART SEED(MALAYSIAN)”
And of course Limkamput is now showing his true anti-Islamic colours after the incessant goading by TomDumb.
Luckily all these guys are not politicians but mere armchair critics. Otherwise we will have our “today you are my friend, tomorrow you are my enemy, the next day you are my friend again” type of wishy-washy politicians.
Godfather,
Your level of discourse has degenerated. It has gone to the level of calling people names just because their opinions are not in accord with your sentiments. In the years I have seen you commenting in this blog, the advance of years have not been matched by any correspondent advance in either wisdom or charitableness. Just bitterness. Maybe BN is guilty of doing this to you. Get a Life man, there’s not many years left.
Godfather,
The progress of age must have put more wrinkles in your mind. I am amused at your agitated state of mental pregnancy with successive incoherent deliveries of trying to discredit messenger(s) than message(s), not to mention a certain obsession (repeated more than twice) in this blog about the ”thing” I supposedly hold in “both my hands” that according to him “isn’t pretty-looking”, although I must say it is a refreshing change from the last time when you asked me to “bend down” for you! :)
Ooops….according to “you”…
By the way I am sure you are aware that you can by now join PAS’s non-Muslim supporters club to become card carrying PAS member (besides being a member of DAP) to promote reconciliation of their conflicting ideologies.
And of course Limkamput is now showing his true anti-Islamic colours after the incessant goading by TomDumb. Godfather
Look, I am consistent with my colour, if you care to read my records. I was never comfortable with PAS, but have moved along thinking that the reality of Malaysia and modern living would bring PAS to the middle path.
I just don’t buy the logics. How can we tolerate PAS negotiating with UMNO? If UMNO is a thief, what does this make PAS, a lesser thief? If UMNO is racist, PAS a lesser racist? You and I know that all these talks are for the good of the country’s economy and stability are pure nonsense.
I think PAS is arrogant even before it gains full power. If PAS wants to stay with PR, it must subscribe FULLY to PR principles and policies. Malaysia must remain multi-religious, multi-racial and liberal while we still have a chance. PR should appeal direct to the people. Let right minded people join the right minded parties. Racist, domineering and exclusionist parties should all be cast into oblivion.
Now PAS even want to ban Sis in Islam. What does that tell you? If they are not even tolerant of their own women, what chance do kafir have? Don’t get me wrong, PAS members are entitled to their belief and way of life. But please, their way is not necessary “the way”, so don’t impose it on others.
“Boy, I didn’t know if any coalition in power depends on majority electorate. Extraordinary observation” – Godfather.
I did not make this extraordinary analysis about “any coalition in power depends on majority electorate.”
As per what I stated (quoted by Godfather), it was whether the coalition in power is “Exclusivist” Coalition or “Inclusivist” Coalition. The accent and emphasis is on “Exclusivist” versus or “Inclusivist” coalition, and which in power depends not on just majority electorate (votes) but their maturity derived from confidence in determining where their votes go.
This is entirely different from the simplistic complexion given to what I said by Godfather just for the purpose of ridiculing.
This is an illustration of what I meant by an “agitated state of mental pregnancy with successive incoherent deliveries” to distort a message for another purpose of ridiculing the messenger, a reflection of a maturity of a man not commensurating his age.
Writing another foot-long posting justifying his definition of Exclusivist Coalition and Inclusivist Coalition is an example of megalomania. In case you still can’t get it, the words “extraordinary analysis” which I used earlier was with sarcasm, so there’s no need to justify your extraordinary analysis.
I am not trying to justify any of my analysis as “extraordinary” or is any of your sarcasm missed – its just showing your ordinary/customary distortion of what others say, thats all.
“Teacher, teacher, I’ve been misquoted….someone has distorted what I have said….boo hoo hoo”
Now a QC wannabe is trying to be a pyschologist wannabe. Sigh…it’s better if this self-proclaimed writer of eloquent English admit that he is nothing more than an anti-Islamic critic.
1. An opposition to PAS’s Islamic state and Islamisation agenda is not equivalent to an anti-Islamic sentiment.
2. Limkamput’s willingness to give PAS a benefit of doubt for a period of time, hoping that the realities of Malaysian politics would knock some sense into it is not only entirely consistent with his reservation about PAS and his rejection of PAS’ exclusivist ideologies, but also shows that he is an open-minded person, willing to give a chance to explore the possibility of working with a moderate PAS. As it turned out, PAS has shown its true colours.
3. Wong Chin Huat has a point when he said that we should vote for PAS if we did not want an Islamic state (a-la PAS), because non-Malay support for PAS would strengthen the Erdorgan faction within PAS and thus prevent PAS from joining forces with UMNO. However, the current development has shown that both the Erdorgan and conservative factions share the same goal of establishing an Islamic state. Of course, as long as most of the non-Malay voters adhere to the policy of voting for PAS only to enable PR to wrest control of the federal government from BN rather than embracing PAS’s agenda, and as long as PAS does not substantially increase the number of seats it constests in the next election, it should be ok to vote for PAS as a matter of strategy. My worry is that the hatred for BN becomes so strong that many non-Malays begin to embrace PAS’ ideology rather than merely voting for PAS as a matter of strategy. We have seen this sentiment expressed by some non-Malays: ‘even if PAS insists on an Islamic state, it is still better than UMNO-BN corruption and racism.’ I think this is a very dangerous sentiment: PAS’ agenda are worse than UMNO-BN corruption and racism.
4. We need to take heed of Jeffrey’s observation about PAS’ sending out conflicting messages through different spokespersons. This is the well-known practice of Taqiyya.
5. Lim Kit Siang is clearly put off by one of PAS’ decisions when he says this in his twitter: ‘Shocking/Ridiculous – PAS wants Sisters in Islam banned ‘
6. PAS is demanding a redistribution of seats to be contested by PR component parties. Is this a sign of their intention to dominate PR? The KL division even demanded Khalid’s and Nurul Anwar’s seats currently held by PKR.
I’m a devout Christian opposed to any form of theocracy in a pluralistic society, including Christian theocracy. When I reject the Christian theocratic agenda of a Christian political party, does it make sense to label me anti-Christian?
You talking to me, kid ?
Now the proponent of the Third Force has resurfaced ! The President and Legal Advisor will be telling us how the world crumbles in the face of the PAS onslaught….
Malaysiakini
‘Liberalisation of economy ‘a step backwards’
Rahmah Ghazali | Jun 7, 09 3:47pm
PAS Youth has strongly lashed out against the new government policy which abolished the 30 per cent bumiputera equity rule for 27 service sub-sectors as announced by Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak in April.’
This is clearly in conflict with PKR and DAP’s position on this matter. Both PKR and DAP think that Najib’s cosmetic liberalisation is not sufficient.
So someone in PAS wants to go left, someone wants to go right, someone wants to go straight…so what ? Has the entire party machinery moved in a particular direction that threatens the harmony of PR ? Even if a certain decision has threatened the harmony of PR, there are avenues for other parties to demand explanations, to discuss and to debate issues. Kit is shocked that PAS wants to ban Sisters in Islam. Fine. Did he threaten to pull DAP out of PR ? No, he is seeking further clarification. He is getting a consensus view from Anwar and together they can get PAS to re-address this matter.
We are mere external observers and we are telling these experienced politicians what to do. “Get out of PR”, “PAS is bad news”, “Islamisation is a real threat” we keep posting on this blog. From the self-proclaimed writer of eloquent English to the new kid from Cambridge, we try to project doom and gloom within PR. These people should just vote UMNO at the next GE !
The QC Wannabe and the self-proclaimed writer of eloquent English should understand the caption written by Farish Noor – “PAS finding its way still”. I trust the “undeniably eloquent” QC Wannabe can understand these words without ascribing a foot-long explanation to what it actually means.
Opposition Politics Shaken After PAS Vote
Reme Ahmad, The Straits Times (cited in Malaysia Today)
‘…The opposition has been pushing Umno and BN to the wall since scoring big wins in general elections last year. But now there is uncertainty in the opposition camp. In the PAS elections held every two years, the conservative pro-ulama (Muslim cleric) faction has won. On Saturday, the liberal-leaning, pro-PR faction suffered a big setback, after its candidate for the No. 2 post lost. This means that both the posts of PAS president and deputy president remain in the hands of the clerics. And the Youth wing is now dominated by many from the pro-cleric faction. These leaders are wary of working with Anwar and PR, and are not averse to talking with Umno to strengthen Malay-Muslim political power. This does not mean that PAS will leave the PR alliance. Or that it will suddenly run to Umno. What it means is that PAS members have signalled to PR to slow down on issues that are seen as weakening Malay and Muslim rights in Malaysia. While all PAS members hate Umno, there are also points where they can agree with one another. These include in such issues as keeping Islam as the pre-eminent religion in Malaysia, on religious conversions, and protecting the institution of the Malay rulers. There is also some uneasiness among a section of the Islamist party of the strong push by DAP for equal rights for everything – ie the dismantling of the Bumiputera policy. PAS members of course loath the excesses of the policy as practiced by Umno, but there is support for some of the other parts of the policy – like reserving places in educational institutions for Bumis. And many in PAS are unhappy that the biggest party, member-wise, it is being looked upon as a junior member of the three-party PR…’
‘…What it means is that PAS members have signalled to PR to slow down on issues that are seen as weakening Malay and Muslim rights in Malaysia…’
Many here hate UMNO for its racism and corruption. But PAS is racisim + narrow-minded religious bigotry.
Ah, a quote from the NST….why don’t you wait for Wong Chun Wai’s editorial in the STAR ?
“If UMNO is a thief, what does this make PAS, a lesser thief? ” limkamputt
no. a richer thief.
The Straits Times, Singapore, is different from The New Straits Times (NST).
dap leaders have lost their opportunity to arrive at heaven’s gate and claim what is rightfully theirs. seventy two virgins.
While there is an intramural dispute over the unity talk, the motion calling for the ban of Sisters in Islam was tabled and accepted without debate. So much for our hopes for the so-called ‘progressive’ faction within PAS.
Coalition government of different parties will need to compromise, quite unlike the coalition party where the componenets simply cannot breakaway. So there are bound to be differences of approach and direction between the parties. We hope that they would keep and promote the policies that they agree, and review on what they don’t. In a true coalition, no one party call tell the other like PPP to get lost.
The views against PAS should be openly stated so that PAS would get to know how not to push non-Malay to vote for UMNO. Let’s hope that PAS pay attention to the discussions here.
When apologists for racists in UMNO were willing to take the racists’ stand as positioning for internal party struggle, the same can be said about PAS members too. I hope those who play racial and religious ground would not have a smooth climb up thier political ladder in the party.
Any PAS leader or candidate posturing for internal support within his or her party by appealing to racial or religiously intolerant sentiments should be condemned.
Khairy said that some of his remarks interpreted as ‘racists’ by non-Malays should be seen in context -they had to be uttered in some ‘contexts’ (e.g. UMNO-putra election) to garner support. He seems to be saying something like this: Different messages (often contradictory) are catered for different audiences, and non-Malays should not be offended by a racist sounding message meant for a particular audience.
When Ahmad Ismail was accused of making racist remark when he designated the Chinese in Malaysia as ‘sojourners’, he defended himself by saying that it was only meant for a particular Malay audience.
Now, do we accept this excuse?
“PAS members have signalled to PR to slow down on issues that are seen as weakening Malay and Muslim rights in Malaysia. While all PAS members hate Umno, there are also points where they can agree with one another.”
to compromise and to accomodate would weaken PAS as a religous and exclusive and exclusivist in approach malay islamic party. it was good while it last. it frightened umno into offering carrots instead of sticks. there is no such thing as an inclusive approach to anything.
what would you do if you are a PAS leader about to kick the bucket? this is their last chance at holding public office at the national level.
pkr and dap were selling apples and oranges but pas is into durians. you cannot blame pas if it helps pkr and dap to sell their apples and oranges so it could then sell their durians.
any durian addict in the room??
///SHAH ALAM: PAS spiritual leader Datuk Seri Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat has made it clear that he is dead set against the proposed unity government concept.
He said those who spoke about PAS cooperating with Umno were oblivious to the reality of the party’s struggle and the rivalry that had existed between the two parties.
“There is no need for such talk. It is nonsense, it is rubbish,” said the Kelantan Mentri Besar in a ceramah in conjunction with the party’s muktamar here Saturday night.
Umno, said Nik Aziz, was an evil party as all Kelantan PAS leaders were aware.
“The Umno-led Federal Government talks of 1Malaysia but they instructed their officers not to co-operate with those who work with PAS government in Kelantan. This is Umno.
“We must obliterate them. Rid this earth of their kind,” he said.
Nik Aziz’s stand contradicted with remarks of other PAS leaders, especially those outside of Kelantan.
Both Abdul Hadi and his deputy Nasharudin Mat Isa had spoken about a possibility of dialogues with all political parties including Umno with the basis of reaching for a consensus towards a national unity concept in the governance of the country.///The Star
Let’s hope that Abdul Hadi and Nasharudin Mat Isa would talk and join UMNO. That should help to ‘purify’ the party.
As long as PR supporters reject PAS’ ideology and agenda, and that PAS does not substantially increase the number of seats it contests in the next general election, PR may still need to work with PAS (however unwilling it is), and PR supporters may still need to vote for PAS to topple the BN government. Just make sure that we make PKR and DAP strong enough to resist PAS if it pushes for its agenda when PR comes to power. However, the worry is that, when PR comes to power, PKR and DAP may compromise on these issues in order to cling on to power. ‘Power corrupts…’
umno has always known that the PR-chain is as strong as its weakest link. today it demonstrates to the world, in racist malaysia the only way up is the racist way.
now dap can kiss its ass goodbye as far as winning the elections as a coalition is concerend. dap’s victory is built on the hope that malay votes remain split in half. that half is now split again into half.
it sure is one splitting headache for pkr and dap.
“today it demonstrates to the world, in racist malaysia the only way up is the racist way.” TomDumbo
Where did you draw this conclusion, Dumbo ? Have you read Nik Aziz’s remarks today ?
the “new begining” that obama spoke of is not about to begin in malaysia.
Opps … ‘PR may still need to work with PAS’ should have been ‘DAP and PKR may still need to work with PAS in PR’
pas is having you believed that having direct talks with one’s political adversary is not talking about terms of engagement but just having tea. one slight hitch tho. partners in the coalition have no role in the talks or the tea.
like i said dap can kiss its ass goodbye
We really hope that Zaid Ibahim will soon join PKR. An Anwar-Zaid team for PM-DPM would be ideal.
It is no use Godfather, for Nik Aziz to say this and Nizar to say that. I am supporting UMNO for Manek Urai for now.
putt here knows squat
Lee Wang Yen Says:
We really hope that Zaid Ibahim will soon join PKR. An Anwar-Zaid team for PM-DPM would be ideal.
No, more than that, Nizar and Husam should join DAP and if necessary give them Sec Gen position, and let them lead multi-racial and multi-religious Malaysia. The racists, the ultra conservative and the bigots can all go Timbaktu.
Tom-dumb can go too.
Maybe a split within PAS is necessary, but to win the 20 – 30 seats in conservative Kelantan and Trengganu, you can’t have the moderates join DAP, or even PKR. Not for the 2013 GE. Let the struggle play out….and let those who covet positions and riches promised by UMNO join the den of thieves.
“No, more than that, Nizar and Husam should join DAP and if necessary give them Sec Gen position, and let them lead ..” limkamputt
yes, lim kit siang and lim guan eng can end the lim dynasty and retire to be private citizens. let nizar and husam take over and re-name the party ‘parti sosialis demokratik malaysia’. nice.
///Now a QC wannabe is trying to be a psychologist wannabe/// – Godfather
One doesn’t have to be a ‘psychologist wannabe’to know you have a close mind – like a steel trap – but not the mouth to match. Your hatred for BN has made you a recalcitrant PAS apologist denying every trangression of PAS.
You asked TomThumb if he heard what Nik Aziz said. What Nik Aziz said at the muktamar rubbishing talk of a unity government was immediately downgraded in importance by No. 2 Deputy President Nasharudin who said that Nik Aziz Nik’s views did not represent the party’s, without heed of the irony that Nik Aziz/Tok Guru is PAS spiritual leader!
You don’t even bother to engage, much less, contradict contents of what was written by Reme Ahmad, The Straits Times (cited in Malaysia Today) cited by Lee Wang Yen and immediately tried to discredit/ridicule it by sarcastically asking Lee why he did not wait for Wong Chun Wai’s editorial in the STAR. Wang Yen has since clarified that it was The Straits Times, Singapore, different from Malaysian NST. It shows that you are interested not in merits or demerits in discussion but to only take or oppose positions in rigid way. Again one does not need to be a psychologist wannabe to see this.
PAS 55th Muktamar calling “for a ban by the National Fatwa Council on the Sisters in Islam (SIS)” The resolution was passed without being even debated by the members at the muktamar. PAS claimed that SIS was confusing Islamic society and also infiltrating the minds of Muslims with its “liberal thinking”.
What did Godfather do? He said “ Kit is shocked that PAS wants to ban Sisters in Islam. Fine. Did he threaten to pull DAP out of PR ? No, he is seeking further clarification.”
But that is Kit. He is leader of a component party. He may have to do what you said. We are not him. We do not share same mindset as members at PAS muktamar. We don’t think even DAP members agree to what PAS muktamar did.
We expressed the reservations that this dimmed hopes that PAS would change its mindset from exclusivist to inclusivist; it portended ill regarding viability of DAP – PAS collaboration within PR framework. Right or wrong, we don’t deserve to be berated/ridiculed by you (for example calling Wang Yen a Kid) for expressing these reservations in light of recent developments in PAS 55th Muktamar – unless you are a fanatic!
The last time we argued on PAS, you were arrogant and dogmatic. Now the only way you have changed is to reverse that order – to become dogmatic and arrogant – a motion with no movement, much less any improvement in terms of flexibility of thinking! Still the pathetic apologist for PAS willing to expose everything we hold dear to threat just to do off UMNO/BN coalition, whose image dominates your small mental screen only as you peer at the distance equivalent to that between your eyes and the end of your nose.
Calling you rigid in mindset would insult the mindset of even those who moved motion against Sisters in Islam (SIS).
That is what a dumb head thinks what i said.
Me too….that’s what the pathological show-off thinks what I said.
Previously I was arrogant and dogmatic, but now I am dogmatic and arrogant…hmmmm….only those who claim to write eloquently can detect the difference between these two positions. Unfortunately English isn’t the first language for many of us.
Only a narcissistic person would write long postings in flowery language to defend his position….
Only a self-delusional would leap to the defence of someone I called ‘Kid’..which is (fortunately or unfortunately) the truth for I have voted 5 times, and the Kid probably hasn’t voted before.
Only the truly narcissistic will wonder at the difference between previous arrogance and dogmatism and present dogmatism and arrogance, as far as he was concermned, when precisely none was intended in the first place. :)
My previous posting, “That is what a dumb head thinks what i said” was meant for that tom-dumb head, not Jeffrey.
…but mine was meant for the pathological show-off, the one who wrote “it is undeniable that I write eloquently” before.
“Unfortunately English isn’t the first language for many of us.”
A case of the bad workman always blames his tools. You should be very happy with Nizar and other PAS members who had filed a suit against the Education Ministry and its minister to stop the implementation of teaching of science and maths in English.
Your children and great grand children have further cause to blame the lack of tools.
The same show-off who wondered aloud in a previous thread why Badawi was only appointed as advisor to MAS, and not given the chairmanship of Petronas…..those who don’t understand politics should be more humble.
“A case of the bad workman always blames his tools.”
You should just blame your hands, because on the one hand…..
‘the one who wrote “it is undeniable that I write eloquently” before’.
This is an obvious distortion. (As usual) It was not intended the way Godfather twisted it. I explained how it was twisted but the Moderator stopped the exchange at that juncture. It can be proven in the archives. Godfather cannot argue or have an exchange straight without distortion. (I have cited an illustration in my earlier posting Today at 16: 26.01) and all Godfather could do in response to was again to sidetrack & distract by saying “Teacher, teacher, I’ve been misquoted….someone has distorted what I have said”….”boo hoo hoo” he mimicked a baboon so that attention is rivetted at his allegation of crybaby away from his obvious distortion of what I earlier said.
A master of duplicitious distortion, that comes as natural to him as leaves to trees, he should join PAS’s non-Muslim supporters club without further ado to help horne their skills in practice of “Taqiyya”.
I want to give UMNO BN a tip. The National Fatwa Council should ban the Sisters in Islam (SIS) on advice and resolution of PAS 55th Muktamar and Manek Urai would be UMNO’s.
It turned out that PAS members are extreme muslim.
YOU CAN EXPECT THEM BE USING GOD NAME TO SUPPORT THEIR ACTS – LIES OR TRUTH.
Not suitable for our secular states MALAYSIA.
Just now Godfather said, “You should just blame your hands, because on the one hand…” Earlier he was commenting about “torn between his two hands, and he ends up holding only one thing in both hands – and that isn’t pretty-looking.”
He is obsessed with hands – and whats in between.
When distortion is exposed, profanity is also good and Ok alternative for the So Called Defender of the Pious Party of PAS! :)
Yeah, you were always torn between YOUR two hands….over the years….always commenting about on the one hand, and on the other hand….legal mumbo jumbo written in “undeniably eloquent English”.
Hi, everyone use your brains to think.
The one PAS recommended partner with UMNO.
What do you think which size he choose?
UMNO bring 30 millions cash money inside suitcase, meet and ask him “This money is belong to you make you stand with us”.
Which side you think he will choose 30 millions (- luxury, greedy) or his party (humble, justice) ?
Hi, everyone use your brains to think.
The one PAS recommended partner with UMNO.
What do you think which size he choose?
UMNO bring 30 millions cash money inside suitcase, meet and ask him “This money is belong to you make if you stand with us”.
Which side you think he will choose 30 millions (- luxury, greedy) or his party (humble, justice) ?
///you were always torn between YOUR two hands….over the years….always commenting about on the one hand, and on the other hand….legal mumbo jumbo written in “undeniably eloquent English”/// – Godfather.
It is good to weigh issues from more than one axis; to hold and juggle two or more variables when evaluating a matter. This cannot be refuted by a simplistic statement that “ History is made by people who make a stand. History is not made by people who sit on the fence, pontificate and do nothing”. Even those who take a stand or have made history have canvassed the variables before taking the course. Due to recent anniversary of D Day, it is timely to recall that General Eisenhower determination of invasion of Normandy (D-Day) on June 6, 1944 (not earlier or later) after canvassing and weighing, this hand, that hand and other hand. What is important is severance of emotions/hopes from ob jective determination of issues.
Even for the intelligent or well informed, a great deal of intelligence or knowledge can be invested in wrong conclusions when the need for illusion and sustenance of hopes for emotional succorance is deep. It is precisely for the sake of our children and grand children we cannot – and dare not afford to structure our well-defined convictions based on emotions that the objective appraisal of issues, mistaking or misinterpreting our hopes and prejudice for principles and facts.
An example: if it were Judge N H Chan commenting about on the one hand, and on the other hand and maybe the third hand replete with the same legal mumbo jumbo written in “undeniably eloquent English”- and even sound legal principles – you would say that’s good (not narcissistic) because (1) most importantly his conclusions resonate with your sentiments (2) the authority of an ex judge, therefore the conclusion is objective, not bias.
The greatest challenge for us is to keep separate our hopes from the objective determination of a situation (say) the way PAS is moving judging from its 55th Muktamar.
Godfather’s deriding of Lee Wang Yen and his views is most unfair. Wang Yen already said : “I’m a devout Christian opposed to any form of theocracy in a pluralistic society, including Christian theocracy”. Dr Lee Wang Yen evinces a capacity to separate private convictions from that of public domain and governance – something PAS ideology is contrary to. (Whilst PAS members are entitled to their world view they should not canvass our votes basded on a misrepresentation of their ultimate position).
Lee’s capacity to separate emotions from objective determination may in part, be a result of a rigorous academic training, that provides the discipline necessary to easier separate emotions from determination of objective conclusions. To call him a ‘Kid’ based on the “truth for I have voted 5 times, and the Kid probably hasn’t voted before” to deride his message not liked, is to hit below the belt and does nothing to enlighten about the problem at hand confronting PR and everything to enlighten about your immature approach in handling others views not agreeable to you. [There are supporters of BN who voted 5 times for its component parties (that Godfather condemns): did that make them less a kid, give them better credentials deserving to be heard by you? Don’t bring in extraneous and irrelevant points to confute and obfuscate the issues discussed.
Correction “….we cannot – and dare not afford to structure our well-defined convictions based on emotions OTHER THAN the objective appraisal of issues…”
The side in PAS that favours “Unity Talk” with PR’s political opponent UMNO is not interested in national unity but power sharing before, as TomThumb said it, their natural lives are over.
The hypocrisy of such a pretension imposes even on the naïve.
Charity begins at home, and that side should be concerned with unity first within PR coalition than the more remote and difficult goal of national unity that is used as an excuse.
The side in PAS opposed to“Unity Talk”may not be concerned with loyalty and unity within PR as well. It is more concerned with strategy, whether if the party goes with UMNO, it will be relegated to second amongst equals position and exert less than decisive decision and influence on two issues (1) getting first tier access to powerful ministerial positions and hence access to largesse from gravy train and (2) attainment of its ideology of establishing theocratic state to sustain support of its constituencies in order that (1) could be sustained! Also it is weighing whether by sticking to Pakatan Rakyat, objectives (1) and (2) are quicker attained if PR wins the next general election with PAS being in position to take a leading and dominant backbone role. At yet another level, and for the present, it is also a different stance to vie for power within the party differentiating itself against the other faction in favour of Unity Talk. Simple principles of staying loyal to coalition do not count that much in opposing Unity Talk, no matter the public reason otherwise states it is! Afterall, no faction within PKR or DAP explores this option. Does this mean that the PAS faction in favour of Unity Talk really cares for national unity more than others? Even the faction opposing Unity Talk may not then have such a meritorious motivation, unsullied by considerations of strategy of which way reaches the goal (1) or (2) faster…..
Don’t be gullible. Let those who want to talk – go and talk, and even join BN. You cannot stop people from trying to realise their ambitions sooner. Just be thankful, that they show their face earlier than later. There’s nothing the other two (PKR & DAP) can do, anyway.
The best thing that can happen to Pakatan Rakyat is PAS joining UMNO to form unity government.
Hmmm.. something wrong with what I just said? Let me repeat that, the best thing that can happen to Pakatan Rakyat is PAS joining UMNO to form unity government.
Let me rephrase that, PAS joining UMNO will be better for Pakatan Rakyat.
just incredible!
it is ok to be ‘torn between two hands’. just don’t go for a hand job when the going becomes tough – like putt does.
“He (godfather) is obsessed with hands – and whats in between.” jeffrey
good one
again just don’t be like putt who is forever caught holding his future in his hand and screaming bloody murder.
a2a Says:
Today at 01: 14.28 (1 hour ago)
“What do you think which size he choose?”
what “has size gotta do with anything” is putt’s one liner. don’t take it away from him. it is all he has.
The fact that the lawyer wannabe uses the word TAQQIYA is representative of his anti-islamic and scaremongering credentials. Perhaps he should explain to readers here what Taqqiya really means.
What does he have at stake in this country ? None. Probably never voted before in his life because he was worried about “on the one hand BN is corrupt, but on the other hand PAS represents mortal danger”.
And the defending of the Cambridge Kid – did Lee hire this half-baked counselor to defend him ? Someone from Cambridge can’t defend himself ?
Continue writing your affidavits, the one with the self-professed and undeniable eloquence in English, but write them in defence of yourself and not for others who never appointed you.
“…if it were Judge N H Chan commenting about on the one hand, and on the other hand and maybe the third hand replete with the same legal mumbo jumbo written in “undeniably eloquent English”- and even sound legal principles – you would say that’s good (not narcissistic) because….”
So now you are pleading for us to say that your commentaries are “good” ? Isn’t that a narcissistic trait – pleading for recognition ?
Actually many of us here find your postings tedious, boring, repetitive and are representative of a scare-mongering, pontificating and narcissistic political novice. How’s that for a summary ?
i know what ‘taqqiya’ means. it is a mexican drink made from a plant called tequillana.
//Actually many of us here find your postings tedious, boring, repetitive and are representative of a scare-mongering, pontificating and narcissistic political novice. How’s that for a summary ?//
I don’t know about ‘many of us’ – but if you do so – it has been a pleasure, and you have to bear it. How’s that for a summary ?
“boring, repetitive, pontificating” – is sometimes a convenient iron to straighten the rucks and wrinkles of old minds.
“I know what ‘taqqiya’ means. it is a mexican drink made from a plant called tequillana” – TomThumb
You are right. At least I know Godpapa is constantly exhilarated stupefied, nay, inebriated by it – and hopes more of others join his company – unhappy and going bonkers with any warnings of health risks associated with its abuse. :)
obsessed with hands – and whats in between -is but one thing, there was one time, and this is hilarious, Godpapa even asked me to bend down so that he could see things from my point of view! :)
Yeah, you’ve bent over so many times, you are now doing it voluntarily. I guess it is the trait of a narcissistic show-off to even want to bend over for others.
Did you enjoy it ? What I have succeeded is to make you write in spurts rather than in foot-long postings of “undeniably good English”.
Have to spurt lah when you’re looking from behind.
U mean when you are taken from behind….must use undeniably good English.
Strange how you once again misconstrue words and mistaking (once too many a times) that when someone defecates into your oesophageal passage, you’re taking him from behind… :)
No wonder someone made this celebrated statement – “Illusion is the first of all pleasures.” I think it was Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish poet, Novelist and damatist who though married reputedly flirted with homosexuality for many years since 1886, when he met a young Canadian, Robbie Ross, who was to be his lifelong and faithful friend and eventually his literary executor.
lets no vote for PAS. in by election and next GE.
HADI should step down as president post
he done alots of uncomfortable statement to voter.
umno BN will change and totally learnt if they become opposition one era