Malaysian Insider
March 14, 2009
By Shannon Teoh
KUALA LUMPUR, March 14 — More than a month after Barisan Nasional ousted Pakatan Rakyat from Perak, former Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad today said the takeover was not done according to the law.
He said mistakes, bad strategy and carelessness in the Feb 5 power grab, orchestrated by Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak, had led to the current crisis in the state.
“You cannot topple a menteri besar or a prime minister without a no-confidence vote in the assembly. There is no other provision,” he said at a function organised by Mubarak, the association for former elected representatives.
“Umno-BN was too careless and did not wait for an assembly but instead asked the Ruler to sack the menteri besar,” he said, referring to Sultan Azlan Shah’s decision to ask Datuk Seri Nizar Jamaluddin to resign.
“As far as I know, there is no such provision in the Perak or Federal Constitution,” he said.
Dr Mahathir said that BN should have done it properly and not “be in conflict with the law” as the courts may now rule that the Sultan has no right to sack a menteri besar.
He added that a Sultan could only reject a candidate for one of his choice after an election but even this candidate could be defeated in the assembly by a vote.
The veteran politician said BN should have “followed the laws of the country, especially the constitution.”
“Because this may be in conflict with the law, we find that people will not comply.
Because we started on the wrong foot, people are now against us,” said Dr Mahathir, who quit Umno last year in a long-running feud with his successor Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
The Perak power grab is now mired in a series of lawsuits, with both sides claiming to be the legitimate government.
Six people have also been charged with insulting the Perak Ruler after he backed BN to govern the state. One has pleaded guilty and was fined RM10,000 yesterday while five others claimed trial.
Umno has said those who opposed the Sultan’s decision are committing treason.
******************************************************************
Dr M: A corrupt cabinet will lead to Najib’s downfall
Malaysiakini
Mar 14, 2009
Andrew Ong
The country’s fourth Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad has openly called for the public to vote against Barisan Nasional should incoming premier Najib Abdul Razak fail to act on corruption.
Mahathir said this during the Q&A session after his lecture on “Democracy and the Future Leadership of Malaysia” at the Tun Hussein Onn Memorial in Kuala Lumpur today, adding that it is widely known who the corrupt leaders are.
“Najib will choose his cabinet members and if he chooses this type of people, then he is signing his death warrant. We will make sure he loses,” he said at the lecture organised by the Former People’s Representatives Council (Mubarak).
Mahathir had waged a campaign against his successor Abdullah Ahmad Badawi’s administration for several years and has been increasingly critical of Najib of late.
Najib will officially be declared Umno president on March 26 during the Umno general assembly, but it is unclear when he officially takes reign as prime minister.
Najib is expected to take over from Abdullah as part of a succession plan, but Mahathir is still not convinced that everything would go as planned.
Will Pak Lah stay on?
Mahathir said that it is purely a party convention that the Umno president is appointed prime minister, but this is not required in law.
From his own experience, Mahathir said , third Prime Minister Hussein Onn did not relinquish his post until two weeks after the former was appointed party president in 1981.
“The chances of this happening (now) is possible. He may say: I still got a lot of work to do (crowd roars with laughter) and I will continue as prime minister.
“If this happens, then we are in for a big problem. We can try to eliminate him with a vote of no-confidence. But if half of the BN MPs support him and the opposition fully backs him, he will win and continue as prime minister for the opposition.
“Moreover, lately he met Anwar. Not just met, but it was a ‘coincidence’ and they had a four-eye meeting. We don’t know what they discussed. Lets just wait for March 26,” he said.
To a question on whether Najib is capable of stabilising the country, Mahathir said that it would depend on how vigilant the public and Umno members are in scrutinising the former’s actions.
Dr M on unity government
Mahathir added that Najib was a “good administrator, but politically weak”.
“He didn’t come up from the bottom (grassroots). Suddenly, he came back from Europe (after his studies) and was chosen to replace his father. We are sentimental towards his father, so we support him.
“But he does not know the ins and outs of grassroots politics. He only knows politics from above,” said Mahathir.
I always enjoy seeing TDM’s political mastery. By saying so, he endears himself with a lot of Malaysians yet at the same time he’s sending a message to UMNO rank and file that there is checks and balances within UMNO in the form of Mukhriz. In another words, just because Najib is his protege, he’s not going to give him a blank cheque to run UMNO at the expense of his/his son’s network.
Our Dr M has now come out to say the BN power grab in Perak is illegal and contrary to the Perak State Constitution. What true and brave words to assess the political stalemate in Perak? Our former PM has come out short of calling for fresh state elections in Perak to end the impasse. What needs more to be said?
“You cannot topple a menteri besar or a prime minister without a no-confidence vote in the assembly. There is no other provision” – Tun Dr Mahathir.
That does not address the other question: How could the BN deliver a no-confidence vote in the assembly against PR’s MB Mohd Nizar (as TDM suggests) if the BN’s numbers in Perak Assembly were, even after the 3 defections, insufficient to carry such a no-confidence vote through if PR’s Speaker Sivakumar ruled the “kataks” seats as “vacant”, contrary to EC’s decision, and barred the 3 from entering the state assembly to vote on such a motion of no confidence?
There is probably no other viable way to resolve the impasse caused by the 3 defections except to have the assembly dissolved in quest for fresh mandate from Perakians via state wide elections, which HRH the Ruler should have approved amongst the options canvassed.
Of course it is better still such a take over scheme should not have been launched, in the first place, because majority of people in the aftermath will just not accept such a naked usurpation of the rakyat’s mandate established in last GE. It only leads to stalemate on both sides and a non functioning state government in Perak as is the current situation….
Most people knows that Perak power grab by BN was unlawful except BN as they’re still in denial stage. sigh…. Nevertheless, we’ll show to BN what the rakyat can do thru balot box comes next GE !
The lessons “kataks” (from whichever side of the political divide) learn from this fiasco is that if they “defect” their political allegiance to the party/coalition, they ought not to declare being independent (lest Speaker from majority side rules that their seats are vacant). What could be done is to quietly wait for motion of no confidence intiated by the minority side and then vote, contrary to the party whip, in support of the motion of no confidence against one’s own side. Only in such a case can TDM’s suggestion of no-confidence vote in the assembly be viable as an option (albeit questionable) to bring down a Federal or State Government.
Most important is to become the next PM first.
Nutjib did’nt care much about whether BN will lose in the next GE!
Four more years is just enough for him to “enjoy”, for the next successor will be running a “bankrupt” country after that.
This is PM AAB parting message?
Ideas Appreciated
Viewpoints Welcomed
From this message, do you think he is going to step down?
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2009/03/pm-aab-parting-message.html
We might have AAB as PM for while..
Shiok Guy
Perhaps as M grew older..he is repaying his sins by speaking for Malaysians.
I need to see Mahathir keep telling truths….much more to be convinced…that the sins should be forgiven.
Let UMNO and Muslims read this.
Other Malaysians already know..Najib was thinking about UMNO……never the Malaysians in Perak.
He is so desperate to create something sensational to erase all his bad reputation…trying hard to make all UMNO high profile politicians to support him….100%.
Strange as it may seem…..Mahathir was the cause of all disunity..amongst Malays and disunity in UMNO itself…encouraging massive corruptions.. .focusing on “MONEY IS POWER”..regardless how anyone in UMNO can grab hold of it…..stealing our money and call that as commissions.
Dollah tries to clean up all the dirt..but he is a useless PM….fooling all Malaysians with his gutless leadership and personality.
Najib is haunted by the Mongolian murder case and many bad reputations..that he dare not take anyone to court ..like S’pore.. LKY.
What type of PM…allowing so call rumour mongers to keep churning out stories about him..even from one Frenchman…not suing anyone?
It shows……Najib is trying to hide under the umbrella of UMNO and the Koran..the two famous UMNO political tactics……race and religion..all so clear.
Are all Malaysians going to depend on a racialist PM?
Malaysians are hungry to unite and be Malaysians only.
Lets see…the power to “divide and rule” against “unity is strength”…who will win the last battle in the 13th election.
Now that Dr. M is also saying this toppling of Perak PR state government is unlawful. So Pemuda UMNO will demostrate in front of his house and say this is treachery, Penkhianat kepada Sultan?
In politic Anwar was out smart by Najib , for 2 weeks Anwar enjoying his katak and the entire PR clapping their hand except Karpal without realising his katak was the trojan katak..care to read tzun sze art of war..
No no no UMNO will never demonstrate against Mahathir.
They will select anyone they can bully and Mahathir is simply to smart a double headed snake for all of them.
They will only make comments…to cut him down diplomatically.
22 years as UMNO leader and PM…Malaysian politics is the only country in the world with so much twists and turns.
Are they hypocrites or saints come marching in?
Like I said..maybe the double headed snake has finally awaken to contribute to unite Malaysians.
Ai…yah, everybody in this knows better then him la…..
Read What Ku Li Said:
Tengku Razaleigh:
“This is what you get when people are not aware of the full import of the rule of law and constitution. This is what we get when rule of law is replaced with the rule of men. In a democracy, we must uphold the fundamental principle that the only legitimate way of forming a government is through elections and never by any means of political meanderings.
This episode Tengku, tells the public that UMNO does not know how to lose. They are sore losers!
What is there to lose? UMNO has already lost. We have lost the Malay belt states. Kelantan- we shall never get it back in the foreseeable future. We are on the brink of losing Terengganu.
We must learn to lose gracefully and maintain self respect. The rakyat will respect us for that.
The only way to regain public trust and confidence for UMNO and more importantly to restore dignity to the ruler is to dissolve the assembly. Let the people judge us.
Yes, chances are, UMNO will lose. But so what? As I said, UMNO has already lost. But it’s more important for us to accept defeat with dignity without trampling the rakyat’s rights.”
Excerpts from: sakmongkol.blogspot.com
Dr. M has given the Pakatan Rakyat leaders a lot of hints about the high possibility of forming a unity government which involves Pakatan Rakyat and Partial Divided Faction of Barisan Nasional which befriends Pakatan Rakyat after March 26 Umno General Assembly.
However, whether Pakatan Rakyat leaders are able to make it a successful deal with the friendly faction of Barisan Nasional for forming a unity government will all depend on how well the following questions can be addressed and answered:
1. Do the Pakatan Rakyat leaders possess a wide coverage of good social networking in order for them to effectively gather adequate and accurate intelligence from around the circle of Barisan Nasional which reveals the importance message like who their potential friends from Barisan Nasional will be?
2. Are the Pakatan Rakyat leaders ready to let go certain basic principles which they lean upon for their past political achievement, such as making only non racist based party acceptable as their political partner, in order to extend their olive stick to the friendly faction of Barisan Nasional?
3. Are the Pakatan Rakyat leaders ready to give in to the friendly faction of Barisan Nasional in event that the friendly faction makes a demand for high government post such as the post of Prime Minister in a proposed unity government?
A unity government which involves the ruling party and the opposition party has never been formed in Malaysia before. Any attempt towards such a direction as to forming a unity government in the midst of fast deteriorating economic recession and high unemployment crisis will require the political courage and great wisdom from all parties concerned. Any Member of Parliament who is willing to compromise and offer himself/herself for use as an instrument to achieve national unity through forming a unity government for purpose of fighting the serious economic crisis in a rapid and united effort will be able to prove that he/she has really taken the greater good of the Malaysian people to heart. Only those MPs who put the national interest as the first priority and the main concern will deserve the due respect and continual support from all the people of Malaysia.
We look forward to seeing the birth of a unity government in the near future in order to replace the much divisive and controversial government under the leadership of Najib Razak.
Dr MM must be reading law after his retirement.
He seems to be more knowledgeable in legal matters than Sultan Azlan Shah.
Now Dr. M say unlawful. How about the Sabah power grab in year 1994?? Did he remember?? Real Sabahans surely remember until today… Why I say real Sabahans because after 1994, there is Project M. So, Perakian, protect your state, there may have Project N which we all don’t know…….
A good leader is not solely based on ability, it comes with responsibility. Do we see this in Najib, the PM-in waiting?
Many doubt.
The world faces the worst financial crisis and Malaysia was no exception, yet, this FM went about dividing the nation….when we need complete effort of bi-partisanship. How can the nation entrust such high a responsibility to a man whose self interest comes before the country. It is better to deal with the devil we know than the devil, yet, to show his full colors!
The honorable thing for BN to do now is to dissolve the Perak state assembly to make way for a fresh election. It is still not too late for Najis to make a U-turn to regain his integrity and rebuild his party’s image through holding a fresh election.
Is Mamakthir suggesting that Najis is unfit to be PM ? After all, we have never had a PM with such a number of allegations on corruption, involvement in murder, womanising, etc.
What is undeniable is that we will have a PM with the most number of unsavoury nicknames even before he starts work.
Now that Dr M agrees that the power grab in Perak is unlawful and ultra vires the constitution, will anyone in UMNO go rushing to the police stations to make police reports against him for “treason”, “slander”, etc??
Dr M statement surely runs counter to the pronouncement by UMNO that those who do not respect and oppose the sultan of Perak’s decision are actually committing treason.
Why are UMNO warlords and UMNO (delinquent juvenile) Youths silent on Dr M’s statement?
Will MACC investigate Dr M?
The fact that there is an on-going court case to decide the legitimacy of Zambry as the Perak MB; could Dr M’s comment be taken as sub judice, and in contempt of court?
We can see that those entrusted with powers to investigate and interrogate people over statements considered as “sensitive” do practise double standards when they perform their duties.
Shame on all of them! It just goes to show that they are indeed lacking in principles and honour, perhaps even legitimacy.
By extension of Dr M’ statement, one could conclude that:
1. Nizar is still the valid MB, while Zamry is not
2. The Perak state PR government is valid
3. Sutan Azlan Shah had erred
4. All courts cases that BN-UMNO brought against PR government
and their excos are invalid
5. That all actions by the police, MACC and other government
agencies against PR government and their excos are illegal and
unconstitutional, and could be challenged in court of law
6. Najib’s action could be investigated and challenged in a court of
law, and if found guilty should be sentenced accordingly
etc., etc.
Dr. Mahathir said at the lecture organised by the Former People’s Representatives Council (Mubarak) that it would not be possible to have a unity government which would rely on the cooperation between Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat as proposed by Hadi Awang. He cited the ideological differences between PAS and Umno as the deterring factor which would fail the unity government.
Notwithstanding, in my personal opinion the current fast deterioration of the economic situation may send a strong alarming signal to both PAS and Umno that it is time to set aside the ideological differences between the ruling parties and the opposition parties in order to lay path for a joint effort to overcome the critical escalating national unemployment problem.
Let’s take a few minutes to examine the price drops in two major commodities of Malaysia, namely Crude Petroleum and Crude Palm Oil, in order to get a better idea on how severe the sharp drop in demand for our national products can be:
It is reported by MITI Weekly Bulletin Volume 35 dated 11 March 2009 that Crude Petroleum recorded the highest trading price of USD145.08 per barrel as at 13 July 2008. However, the price for Crude Petroleum dropped drastically to USD47.07 per barrel as at 10 March 2009. This sharp price drop of about 67.56% over about 8 months’ short-term period can be translated into a tremendous loss of the expected national income that is to be generated from export of crude petroleum.
On the other hand, the expected personal income of the oil palm planters in Malaysia is also badly affected by a sharp drop in the international trading price of Crude Palm Oil (CPO). CPO recorded the highest trading price of USD1,367.50 per metric tonne as at 5 March 2008. However, the CPO price dropped to USD570.00 per metric tonne as at 10 March 2009, which was a significant price drop of about 58.32% over a period of one year.
As a consequence of the sharp price drop in commodity trade items, the import volume and export volume of the international trade of Malaysia could only indicate a big contraction. The following comments were excerpt from MITI Weekly Bulletin Volume 35:
“Source: MITI
Note : Figures are rounded to the nearest whole number.
Malaysia’s trade in January 2009 totalled RM67.8 billion, a decrease of 29.7% compared to the same month last year. Exports were valued at RM38.3 billion, a decrease of 27.8%, while imports fell by 32.0% to RM29.5 billion compared to a year ago.”
If the sharp drop in Malaysia’s international trade volume cannot be put to a stop, it is quite likely that Malaysia will report a recession for the whole year of 2009.
Apparently, the most viable shortcut for encouraging international trade between the Malaysia’s international trade partners and Malaysia itself is for the Malaysians to prove to the international business communities that Malaysia can give a promise of political stability which will last for at least the next four years by way of forming a unity government between Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat at the Federal level as well as at the state level.
Even though Dr. Mahathir does not believe that a unity government is viable in Malaysia, we may still harp our hope in forming a unity government. History has shown us that human beings of different ideological backgrounds will tend to be much more willing to reach a compromise in order to cooperate and unite among themselves when they face a big survival challenge and when their livelihood has been seriously intimidated by the common enemy. In the present case of Malaysia, it is obvious that the common enemy is the threat of global economic recession. Therefore, it is still at the early stage for someone to rule out the possibility of forming a unity government between Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat since both the ruling parties and the opposition parties may give a serious thought about it as the practicable proactive measure in order to jointly take up the challenge of fighting the huge intimidation of economic recession.
Who really is running UMNO and this country? We can say all kinds of things and postulate all kinds of theories, but the reality is we don’t know what the heck is going on. Why suddenly the “unity government”? Why suddenly 4 eyes meeting between PM and DSAI? And why the old fox suddenly come up with all the unbelievable statements? Something is brewing….just don’t know whether it is coffee or Chinese herbs.
Is Mamakthir suggesting that Najis is unfit to be PM ? godfather
I don’t think so. I think he is fully supporting him. This is how all the foxes work in Malaysia. They said resigning but actually not. They said not supporting but actually supporting to the keel. Look like the dice is cast.
“…The country’s fourth Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad has openly called for the public to vote against Barisan Nasional should incoming premier Najib Abdul Razak fail to act on corruption..”
“act on corruption”?? Oh my word!… these words coming from Great Pretender?? As if we don’t know UMNO will have its GA soon. If not for personal or family gain I can’t see why he would ever exert himself to twist logic and mind you even talking about “unlawful”!!
Oh yes, it seems he CAN remember as far back as to the time of young Najib’s return from Europe and of his own sentiments too towards this one-time protege’s father.
The Umno politicians know very well that their personal wealth and snobbish lifestyle can only be built upon the political power which they now hold in their hands. Therefore, it is not easy for the incumbent to let go his power without first having to do some dilly dally posture which is elegant and aesthetically pleasing to the bystanders, lest their personal wealth and snobbish lifestyle will all be suddenly gone with the wind if he looks too weak in the eyes of the bystanders. This may tell the good reason why suddenly there was a 4 eyes meeting between AAB and DSAI.
By looking back to the Chinese history of Ching Dynasty, we found that the last Emperor Pu Yi was also never hesitating to offer himself to work as the puppet of the Japanese Invader Army, simply because it was too painful for him to suffer from the sudden loss of personal wealth and snobbish lifestyle when the last Emperor no longer held the political power in his own hands.
The loneliness after retirement makes people feel hungry for power. If it is no longer possible for one to regain the lost power due to senility, then the best way to pass life is to talk outspokenly in order to catch people’s attention. This is the understandable behaviour that is usually conducted by a lonely retired old man in Malaysia.
“Dr M says Perak grab unlawful”.
If Dr M had said this in the early days of the crisis, things might have turned out differently than the mess we are in now.
Perhaps this statement is conveniently made with the UMNO elections, in about 10 days time, in mind. There must be a hidden agenda, this timing of the statement.
Maybe the PM-to-be might not be with all the goings-on in the background and foreground and anything can happen during the next 10 days or so.
But Rosemary is desperate to be First Cow and said that it is destiny that her hubby must be the next PM shortly. Have a long wait, Rosie. Don’t count your chickens before they are hatched.
Rip Van Winkle has finally woken up! Mahathir tidak mudah lupa!
The most sensible words ever uttered in the recent years. Oops I forgot Dr.M is not an UMNO member after all.
There is a saying I heard at the National University of Singapore:
“Be old and wise, not old and otherwise”…
Wise indeed is someone who realise his mistake. Dr.M learnt a lot.
But I guess UMNO won’t learn from their mistakes. I forsee they can only hold onto Perak for another 3 yrs until the next GE.
“And why the old fox suddenly come up with all the unbelievable statements? Something is brewing….just don’t know whether it is coffee or Chinese herbs.” limkaput
It could be a combination of tuak and tongkat ali…
“Look like the dice is cast.” limkaput
You mean the dye is cast ……lol
So the old Jackal is up to his tricks again eh? Something must be cooking; thought he was all for Najib as dpm and why now a sudden change of heart? Guess Najib has outlived his usefulness and it’s time to position his son Mukhriz?
As for the old chap across the high walls, wonder if he is able to sleep well the past month now that Perak is without a proper government and in such political mess. Malu malu!
Perakians are outraged. They now want to arrest those who have lost respect for the Perak Sultan, why? I hope the Sultan realises that “respect” must be earned. Unless the Sultan shows more care and concern for his subjects and the state, Perak will need to build enough jails to lock up the 80-90% of Perakians who don’t agree that their Sultan have lived up to their expectation.
Check out the Malays in the kampungs, the Chinese in New Villages and Indians in the estates and factories, there is sense there is anger everywhere. Even if they lock up all the Perakians, they can never lock up their spirits!
A dyke should be cast over the stupid…Smart Tunnel.
The sultan is a constitutional monarch and his decision must not be unlawful and ultra vires the constitution. Only the fools from UNMO will say that those who do not respect and oppose the sultan of Perak’s decision are actually committing treason.
“If Dr M had said this in the early days of the crisis, things might have turned out differently than the mess we are in now.” – Sheriff
How is that possible?
“Mahathir added that Najib was a “good administrator, but politically weak”.
I don’t care! All I want to know is he Najib a murderer?
“But he does not know the ins and outs of grassroots politics. He only knows politics from above,” said Mahathir.”
Did he or Did he not murder Miss Altantuya?
In my view, Malaysia needs a strong Opposition far more than she needs a “unity” government with UMNO/BN right now.
It’s OK in a democracy for Opposition politicians to support Government politicians on good, sensible policies during key periods of national crises but this can always be done without being subsumed into the Executive and thus weakening separation of powers, checks and balances.
IMO, PR politicians will almost certainly damage their public standing and image if they are seen by the People to “merge” with UMNO/BN in any way instead of differentiating themselves further from that cheapened beyond redemption political brand.
And I too find it highly amusing that the now rejected and ignored Dr M still tries to fool everyone by spinning more of his trademarked psychological shadow-play fakery from the powerless political sidelines. Had Dr M been a good leader when he had the ample opportunity to be one instead of being an utter failure even as a mediocre administrator, perhaps then he would have earned the moral authority and right to impart his wisdom in his old age which Malaysians may have found worth listening to and learning from instead of ending up today in the eyes of many as a much reviled figurehead.
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
As long as fresh state elections are not held, one can say that it is unlawful and still it has no effect.
“Even if they lock up all the Perakians, they can never lock up their spirits!” JONG
I don’t mind being locked up with spirits. Chivas, XO, Pinot Noir all cost money and during recession I cannot afford not to be locked up with spirits.
After 22 years of damaging and narrow politics overruling good policies and more than a month of Perak crisis, he came up with this……Next!!
“Did he or Did he not murder Miss Altantuya?” Dawsheng
He swore in a mosque that he had never met the woman, much less involve himself in any murderous plot. What more do you want ? In our country, we must defend the doctrine that a person is innocent until proven guilty. If we do otherwise, we are no better than the clowns who claim to rule this country.
At the end of the day the old hat still useful for shielding the hot sun nowadays. Our old man has something that is making sense now, but does it carry any weight or dose the bunch of people who has follow his rules over the decade will listen to him, that was the big Q.
“In our country, we must defend the doctrine that a person is innocent until proven guilty” Godfather
It is not a doctrine. It is simply and only a presumption and like all presumtptions they can be rebutted.
Please tell NR, RM, and ARAB that the Altantuya Foundation was recently set up in Bangkok and its email address is [email protected].
The Altantuya Foundation is seeking donation as support to the family of Mongolian Altantuya Shaariibuu, savagely killed at the age of 28 years old in Malaysia in October 2006.
NR, RM, and ARAB, please donate generously to the Altantuya Foundation.
“In our country, we must defend the doctrine that a person is innocent until proven guilty” Godfather
It is not a doctrine. It is simply and only a presumption and like all presumtptions they can be rebutted.
Only an oxymoron will try to say the above two are different!
limkamput is a tongue twister….presuming a doctrine of common unwritten law….that a person is innocent until proven guilty said by godfather…presumed by him…debatable and arguable.
What to talk of this simple statement….only limkamput with a pea brain can understand.
He is simply trying to keep proving he is smarter than godfather..and of course much smarter than this old man…from a common saying to be something else he is presuming to be.
This irritating pro BN braggart cannot stop bragging.
monsterball: limkamput isn’t taking issue with me. He was referring to undergrad2 who was taking issue with me for using the word “doctrine” instead of “presumption”.
When he was in office, the man had four deputies at four different periods of time, one of whom he had unceremoniously sacked.
After retiring from office, the man began to criticise his own successor.
Now, he is also criticising the future successor of his own successor.
If he himself is still in power, would he say that the Perak grab was unlawful?
That is why I have said before; it is not worth talking to a moron……. sigh. His idea is archaic and his English horrendous. His is worse than 101.
Godfather,
I was not taking issue with anybody but merely pointing out the difference between a ‘doctrine’ and a mere presumption.
doc·trine (dktrn)
n.
1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
It is neither a rule nor a principle of law – but a presumption. The presumption of innocence is a rebuttable presumption.
Of course, when it comes to a street walker with an attap school education, one will have to lower the bar not a little but by many notches.
monsterball Says:
Yesterday at 13: 31.47
limkamput is a tongue twister …”
It comes with no surprise to anybody that Limkaput would want to twist his tongue for one ringgit with the right client.
The commentaries here are good. It reflects what a segment of the population thinks about the current events.
But does it matter what the population thinks?
What’s up TDM ? What took you so long to admit that power grab in Perak was wrong liked what you did in Sabah.He should now be man enough to apolozise to the rakyat of Sabah in particular and malaysian in general.Yeap guys,umno youth should now be on the street demonstration against TDM,if not then umno youth is an utter hypocrite. Unity government,wow sounds great,but you guys know,how could it be formed especially the current bunch of umnoputras and war lords whose hands are filled with dirts and stink like hell. Do any of you good guys want to get involve with such devils and criminals or even some like animals ?.
Guys, if you cannot change the government in the country, have we ever considered changing the country instead of the government?
“Unity government,wow sounds great,but you guys know,how could it be formed especially the current bunch of umnoputras and war lords whose hands are filled with dirts and stink like hell.Do any of you good guys want to get involve with such devils and criminals or even some like animals ?.” (frankyapp)
If Pakatan Rakyat leaders do not wish to try out a Unity Government at the Federal level, then will these PR leaders be ready to take over the mandate to form the next Federal Government (assuming that PR can win in the 13th General Election)? Although Anwar has had hands-on work experience in several ministries of the Federal Government, he is apparently lack of the experience in managing and controlling the Police Force and the Armed Forces. Without having a good hold on the knowhow of managing and controlling the Police Force and the Armed Forces effectively, how is Anwar going to assure the Malaysian people that there will be no coup d’etat from either the Police Force or the Armed Forces even after PR has already gained the control of Parliament?
Forming a unity government shall be a good contingent plan to be implemented during the transition period of making preparation for transferring the government forming power from the hands of BN to the hands of PR in the 13th General Election. Anwar has to be given a probation in the position of either a Home Minister or a Defence Minister of the unity government in order for him to be trained on the managerial knowhow in dealing with the disciplinary troopers of Malaysia such as the royal police and the national defence soldiers of Malaysia.
Without trying to gain some work experience in the cabinet of a proposed unity government, I have reasonable reason to question Anwar on whether he can effectively run his business as the future Prime Minister of Malaysia if he does not possess an accurate checklist of who’s who in the Police Force and in the Armed Forces!
“Without having a good hold on the knowhow of managing and controlling the Police Force and the Armed Forces effectively, how is Anwar going to assure the Malaysian people that there will be no coup d’etat from either the Police Force or the Armed Forces even after PR has already gained the control of Parliament?” Onlooker
I suppose U.S. President Obama is unfit to be his country’s Commander-in-Chief because he has no experience in managing anything like the country’s armed forces – like so many others.
Yes, keep looking! What do they say about people being wet behind the ears?
They should go dry their ears first before they open their mouths.
Godfather,
“Malaysia’s next first lady Rosmah Mansor has said she was “shocked” by attacks from political opponents who have attempted to link her and her husband to a sensational murder.” Malaysiakini
The presumption of innocence must be given to her. Just as it must be given to everybody else and finally the benefit of reasonable doubt must be given to the accused. Some criminals may walk free but it is better that some criminals walk free than seeing an innocent person convicted and hanged for a crime he or she never did.
It is not a matter of ‘doctrine’ but that of legal jurisprudence.
The rot in umno began a long time ago and accelarated during mahathir’s 22 yrs as pm. With a bad record like that it is obvious that the umno goons would pay little attention, if at all, to his views now. But that is not our concern here whether the umno goons still respect him or not. While he is at it, hammering first badawi and now najib, and assumning the role of an enemy to umno and the goons therein, he is for the time being a useful friend to us. But we should not court him openly because he is unpredictable and is capable of firing in all directions. In other words he is not consistent like karpal – as discussed in another thread here in this blogsite.
“It is not a matter of ‘doctrine’ but that of legal jurisprudence.” undergrad2
You have to excuse a non-lawyer like me. All I know is that the presumption of innocence is a doctrine that we must all abide by. After all, we are not animals like those celaka people from UMNO Youth.
So we hear the senile old man speaking up now! And something sensible too!
Godfather,
Try and beat the light and you have a policeman on your tail. When you appear in court to answer charges, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.
You’d need to convince the judge or magistrate that you did not try to beat the red light. In other words you’d need to prove your innocence. The judge will tell you that the traffic policeman has no reason to lie but you have. Case closed.
I think you have been away too long. The policeman who flags me down for jumping a red light isn’t interested in proving my guilt in court. In fact there is a more than 50:50 chance he’d let me go if I dispute his version of events with enough vehemence (and a liberal sprinkling of know-who). He is only interested in what I can offer him to settle the dispute on the spot. No case.
That’s even worse. You’re guilty before you even try to prove your innocence.
About traffic offence. I was once on my way to JB from KL for a case. Along the highway a traffic police flagged me down and asked (as far as I can recall his words): “Tuan dari mana? Tahu tak tuan pandu berapa laju?” Fortunately I had my speed locked (using the cruise control) at 80 because I wanted to test the cruise control function. And I gave him this anwser: “Tak sampai 80”. He looked at me briefly, nodded and then waved me on.
I am not making any observations or conclusions here. They are for your fellas to make. I merely present the facts.
Dear Jong,
Yes. Respect must be earned. I believe( and everybody believes) The Sultan of Perak earns the respect considering he has impressive legal background and conduct the role as head of state with justice and dignity.
His Royal Highness merely used his discretion when he appointed Nizar as MB eventhough PAS, PKR and DAP has no common ground safe for hatred towards UMNO.
Despite the offer by UMNO to form the State Govt with coalition with PAS, Sultan was not convinced. UMNO was dissapointed but acknowledges the absolute right of the Sultan .
Now, The Sultan used the same principle in determining whether Nizar has the majority in State assembly. Simply because his decision is not in line with PR, he was abused.
It is one thing not to agree but to lie on road to hinder the Raja Muda’s entourage is another story. Malay called the action “kurang ajar”.
Nizar used the word “mohon derhaka”. It is tantamount to inform the Sultan that he is committing treason . Unfortunately, there are PAS members who took pain in damage control by saying NIzar did not mean “treason”. So why uttered such word.
If I were to be the Sultan, I would not have wanted him to be MB.