Posted on by Kit

Constitutional scandal of two Perak MBs – Abdullah should support dissolution and state elections

The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is wrong when he said that Pakatan Rakyat must now accept a new government in Perak just as Barisan Nasional had accepted the results of last year’s general election.

The comparison is totally inappropriate. In fact, he should be the last person to make such a statement if he is serious about national integrity and morality in politics and public affairs which is one of his major promises and biggest failures of his premiership.

Abdullah cannot be unaware that there is a world of a difference between last year’s general election result and the current political crisis in Perak engineered by Umno leaders.

Last year’s general election results were the outcome of the exercise of the constitutional and democratic rights of the people of Perak to elect the government of their choice, while the present attempt to oust the legitimate Pakatan Rakyat government by UMNO and Barisan Nasional is a most unethical and opportunistic power-play frustrating the verdict of the voters in the March 8 general election last year.

If Abdullah is sincere and serious in wanting to eradicate political corruption and introduce ethical and principled politics, which he had repeatedly professed publicly, he should dissociate himself from the coup d’etat orchestrated by Deputy Prime Minister and the new Perak Umno leader Datuk Seri Najib Razak in the illegal and unconstitutional power grab in Perak through the defection of three and re-defection of one Perak state assembly person.

I call on Abdullah to support the dissolution of Perak State Assembly and the holding of state elections to resolve the political crisis in Perak and not to end his premiership with a constitutional scandal of two Mentri Besars in Perak.

Even if this is the only legacy of Abdullah in his five-year premiership, it will go a long way to strike a mortal blow at the bane of Malaysian politics – dishonest, unethical, immoral and money politics – and give meaning to the National Integrity Plan which he had launched with such fanfare five years ago but with so little results so far.

Although the Sultan of Perak has rejected the application of the Perak Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin for a dissolution of the State Assembly, Nizar is still the legitimate Mentri Besar until he has been voted out by a “no confidence” motion in the Perak State Assembly.

Until such time, there is no vacancy in the post of Perak Mentri Besar.

Abdullah should advise Najib not to create a constitutional scandal of having two Mentri Besars in Perak and to fully respect the constitutional process and the people’s democratic right and mandate as expressed in last year’s general election – and the most democratic option is to return the mandate to the voters of Perak in a state-wide election to elect a new state government of their choice.

386 Replies to “Constitutional scandal of two Perak MBs – Abdullah should support dissolution and state elections”

  1. don’t have to call on him lah.. he is sleep talking and cannot listen/deaf.
    The whole BN/UMNO is a disgrace to the country and citizen. The gangster on the street might have better integrity than them.

  6. He is a man of a smiling face hiding a knife in his heart. A low standard premier who can’t even judge between what is black and white .
    Idiot PM should understand what is Lanun,Perompak and ragut at this time compare to the democracy practice of mandate on 308 GE last year.

  9. Uncle lks do not become sore loser lah , BN out smart you in the name of the game started by your defacto leader Anwar
    you were keeping your elegant silent when Anwar wanted to wrest the fed last year by X Over and also their Taiwan trip
    You are getting too old with the young generation games..

  12. Uncle Lim,

    If BN can prove that the Perakians wants them, then they don’t have to plan all this dirty tricks to the over the PR state government. They know that majority of Perakians are not in favour of BN. [deleted]

    Question now is, how we, Perakians can fight for our rights to choose the state government we want? Do we need to make street protest like in Thailand to demand for a fresh election? Someone or political party should find the best ways to approach this. Everyone in Perak as well as fellow Malaysian are upset but what can we do at the moment?

    I think street protest is the best at the moment. This will send the message to the world. To show them that Malaysia is ruled by a current corrupted BN government. Hopefully commonwealth countries will help, particularly the British. Bring the British back and help us rebuild our country once for all.

    Pls YB and law maker, you guys have to do something. If BN gets through this, what is the use of having a general election. If not, any political party can buy and switch over the power even if they lost in the general election.

    Counting on you guys and all Malaysian

    Leong WK

  13. Any law expert here???

    CAN THE VOTERS SUE THE FROGS???????IF CANNOT, BETTER NO ELECTION AS WE WASTE OUR TIME TO VOTE AND OVERNIGHT THEY TAKE OVER THE GOVT DUE TO FROG HOPPING.NO RESPECT TO VOTERS AT ALL. THEN,WHY THE HELL ASK US TO VOTE IDIOTS?????

  14. # undergrad2 Says:
    February 6th, 2009 at 12: 21.15

    What good is an MB without a state??

    ===================================

    What good is a (democratic) country without legitimacy towards constitution?

  16. An interesting comment at the DYMM Sultan Azlan Syah’s guest book:-

    “Kim Quek

    E-mail address: [email protected]

    Comments: PERAK CONSTITUTION CRISIS FROM MISINTERPRETATION OF WORDS?

    Urgent appeal to the Sultan to re-look the constitution.

    06.02.2009, 1020 hrs.

    Is it possible that a slight difference in wording between the state constitution of Perak and the federal constitution pertaining to the loss of confidence of Mentri Besar/prime minister has misled the Sultan of Perak into thinking that the constitutional requirement necessitating the Mentri Besar to resign has been fulfilled?

    Judging from the Sultan’s statement explaining his decision to appoint a new mentri besar that seems to be the case. Let me quote the relevant paragraph of the Sultan’s statement explaining why Mentri Besar Nizar Jamaluddin must step down:

    After meeting all the 31 assemblymen, DYMM Paduka Seri Sultan of Perak was convinced that YAB Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin had ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the State Assembly members.

    This statement would have been a correct interpretation of the constitution if applied to the Prime Minister, but an incorrect interpretation, if applied to the Mentri Besar. This is because the loss of confidence of the majority is prescribed differently in the two constitutions (relevant parts of the constitutions are shown at the end of this article). Under the federal constitution, the loss of confidence refers to members of the House of Representatives whereas under the state constitution, it refers to the Legislative Assembly. This means that while the ascertainment of loss confidence can conducted outside Parliament (such as collective appearance before the Agung) in the federal case, it cannot be repeated in state case. In the state case, the loss of confidence must be ascertained within the state assembly, meaning through a vote of no confidence in the state assembly.

    The reason why I said the Sultan could have been misled is that in his statement extracted above, he mentioned the confidence of the majority of the State Assembly members. Notice the statement refers to State Assembly members, and not to State Assembly.

    Under the circumstances, the Mentri Besar was right when he said that he was legally obliged to step down only when a motion of no confidence on him has been passed in the state assembly, but not otherwise.

    And since the Mentri Besar has not resigned, any appointment of another Mentri Besar will be ultra vires the state constitution.

    The swearing-in of another Mentri Besar is only few hours away from now (at 1530 hrs). Perhaps His Royal Highness can spare a few minutes to take another look at the two constitutions, so as to avert a major constitutional crisis?

    The relevant extracts from the two constitutions are as follows:

    Federal constitution: Article 43 (4): If the Prime Minister ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives, then, unless at his request the Yang di-Pertuan Agong dissolves Parliament, the Prime Minister shall tender the resignation of the Cabinet.

    Perak state constitution: Artikel XVI(6): If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly, then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.

    Kim Quek”

  17. No matter what,we should demand for fresh election.If this round we give way for this unethical act then there will be no changes in this country till end of the world.Each time they will use the same strategy to takeover the state govt as it is as easy as ABC…..

  18. All these while…..BN or Pak LaLaLa has never listen to LKS’s call at all. I think DAP owes the people of Perak a very Sincere apology for having such a representative as ADUN. Yes she was ADUN for the past 2 terms and should have allowed others to take her place during the last GE.

    Most of DAP’s elected reps are MANY terms reps and they are so comfortable in their seats too. DAP should also practise a limit to terms for their reps or shift to other seats…

  20. gofortruth,
    is hard when the PDRM is not longer under “Raja”. Now is PDUM, U = UMNO. The can always bend the law or constitution the way they want with PDUM under their loyal command.

  21. It will be a laughing stock if Perak has two Menteris Besar at any one time! Shame on the BN for orchestrating such an illegal take-over of the state government by dubious means and circumstances.

    There should be fresh elections to solve the present political impasse. Let the people of Perak decide whom they want to lead them. Hence, the voice of the people will be final and decisive!

  22. What the voters of Behrang, C Jering and Jelapang should do is to exert heavy pressure on them to resign from their state seat. Then there is a possibility of by-elections and a chance for PR to make a legitimate comeback. Makkal Sakti!

    It’s like a day or mourning today in Perak. Flags should be flown at half mast.

  23. Though case if you ask me.

    Firstly the respected Sultan Azlan has made the decision. Can we doubt him albeit the unfavorable decision to PR? Tough call if PR is potray a better than UMNO party.

    Secondly the Bar Council which PR has leverage on them for numerous issues, eg Anti-ISA, etc has now also ask the Perak Goverment to respect Sultan Azlan decision.

    Would be wise to do some soul searching rather than crying over spilled milk now

    Bar Council Urges Perak Govt To Respect Sultan’s Decision

    http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/news_lite.php?id=387982

    KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 5 (Bernama) — The Bar Council has called on the Perak government to abide by the decision of the Perak Sultan for Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin and the state executive council members to resign from their posts.

    Its president Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan said she was convinced that Sultan Azlan Shah had made the decision guided by the law and therefore, the decision should not be questioned.

    “The question now is whether the Menteri Besar has the majority in the state assembly to govern the state,” she told reporters after the presentation of the Certificate in Legal Practice to the recipients by the Raja Muda of Perak, Raja Dr Nazrin Shah, at the Putra World Trade Centre, here, on Thursday.

    Mohammad Nizar has refused to step down as Menteri Besar as ordered by Sultan Azlan Shah as he believes that he still legally holds the post under the Perak State Constitution.

    This afternoon, the office of the Perak Sultan had issued a media statement informing that Sultan Azlan Shah had ordered Mohammad Nizar to quit his post after he was satisfied that the Menteri Besar no longer had the confidence of the majority of the state assemblymen, following the decision of three Pakatan Rakyat assemblymen to leave their parties and declaring their support for Barisan Nasional.

    On the validity of the resignation letters purportedly sent by the two Pakatan Rakyat assemblymen (Jamaluddin Mohd Radzi and Mohd Osman Mohd Jailu), Ambiga said the matter could be brought to court.

    Based on the court’s decision, she added, the Election Commission could decide whether to call for by-elections in the two state constituencies (Behrang and Changkat Jering).

    — BERNAMA

  25. Everyone should just go to the state secretariat, istana or airport and do a sit in like what happened in Thailand. But do Malaysians have half the guts of Thais…..there is no brave leader here is there….maybe that’s even why they are refusing Chin Peng from coming back. Even as an octogenarian he may have the fighting spirit then many other leaders in this country.Malaysia, Malaysia…where is our Ho Chin Meng

  27. LKS is right to appeal to AAB. So what if it comes to nothing? You have to ask so that history shows you were refused. In the worst case, history will show that LKS tried and failed, not failed to try, and AAB refused to listen, rather than was not aware.

    All PR has on its side is hope. We all aspire for a better Malaysia. If AAB won’t respond to pleas, at least he can retire to bed knowing his unfulfilled promises are about to be recorded in the nation’s history. That’s the problem with unfulfilled promises: until the last grain of sand falls, we all live in hope. There are very few grains of sand left in the timer. When the last one falls, we can give up on AAB’s promises. Until then, LKS has to keep reminding him that he still has a little time left to salvage his reputation.

    Having said that, I see ‘call on’, but no mention of where the call was made. Just in case LKS has forgotten in the excitement of the moment to add a footnote that tells us in which august chamber he made the call, I for one would be glad to see it added. If the call is on LKS’ blog only, I doubt AAB will read it.

  28. Pakatan should not take this lying down. Go to court to declare the BN government illegal. It has been done in Sarawak and it can done here.
    Let the whole world know what sort of a banana republic we are.
    For God sake, NEVER GIVE UP ON THIS.
    This country is not for sale to the highest bidder.

  29. aab might emerge as winner and najis, remains his tool to work hard for umno. if recapturing perak attracts good comments, he has the credits, otherwise, najis carries the blame.

    aab first needs to appoint the his judges. come march, you may see najis in the defendant box of:
    1. a corruption charge and/or
    2. altantuya trial

    now, who is the person in power? let’s guess.

  30. Najis needs to grab as much power as possible to fend off all the corrption and murder charges against him.

    He knows very well only with strong enough power he might able to stop all the accusations against him and Rosie.

    Malaysia is doomed with such scumbag in power!

  33. Why no disciplinary action taken on this two frogs earlier for corruption?If PR done this earlier maybe today the situation will be different.Please start the cleaning process in other states as I think the “najis” is up to something.Start with kulim first……

  34. I have to say this : PR is foolishly fighting the wrong battle here.

    First of all you are not fighting on substance but form. When you argue “ Nizar is still the legitimate Mentri Besar until he has been voted out by a “no confidence” motion in the Perak State Assembly” what is the point? If there is now had been a “no confidence” motion in the Perak State Assembly” you mean that you have majority numbers to defeat it? Why argue on procedures to countermand the sultan’s decision when procedures, even if followed first, would turn the same in the same result?

    Come on, you have to take cognizance of Malay tradition and adat of respecting the Sultan’s command : that is hard to fight against, at this juncture.

    PR’s Cause will not be served by double talk: Like Mohd Nizar’s other statement, “I refuse to resign as Perak MB on conviction that I still legally hold the position under state constitution. I apologise for rejecting decision of the sultan. We are just appealing for the proper process to be followed. We are not rejecting the sultan’s command, we just want him to follow the provisions of the state constitution” – NST Feb 6 front page.

    I ask : How does this make sense? Why appeal for the proper process to be followed as if the sultan has not already taken a position of what is proper process? One cannot say he is not rejecting decision of the sultan and yet say at the same time that the sultan is not following the proper process under state constitution for which one wants to appeal further! What is there to appeal? You think the sultan will change his mind?

    Nizar cannot keep on pretending that he is still the MB. It is unreal – and surreal!

    “I will go about (with my job as MB) as usual. I have to meet some consultants and investors later. However I will have to tell them that we have to reschedule our appointments,” said Mohd Nizar. You think the consultants and investors will still want to see you? How could he still carry on as MB when his press conference could be interrupted by state secretary Abdul Rahman and the state police chief? Or his desk cleaned out, or the keys of all camry cars for assemblymen be taken back?”

    You have been beaten in your own game of defection, accept it, learn from it and fight other winnable battles to win the war. Engaging in make belief and delusion will forfeit your dignity and self respect as well.

  36. I said it in earlier thread but would say it again here:

    Even if you were wronged – and unjustly evicted – (which you are), please be dignified and don’t engage in further self delusion and make belief that you could salvage the situation.

    Turn your attention to other battles to win the war rather than make a last stand in a battle already lost lost (when you didn’t act pr-empt before the opposite side launched the coup) unless you are willing to die at that spot, which is the case, if double talk is set aside, to say clearly that you PR are not following the Ruler’s command and take on the consequences of Shabery’s threats of “treason” if there is where you actually want to go and fight.

    But how do you fight – what weapons have you got to fight – when laws, tradition, feudal culture, police, courts everything are stacked on the other against you?

    If you want fight – fight when and where you can win. It is important to know when and where you can and when and where you cannot, and knowing the difference is the distinguishing mark between pragmatic wisdom on one hand and surreal obstinacy and refusal to acknowledge reality on the other.

    There are other battles : you don’t have to dig in to fight an already lost one and get buried along with your dignity and pride.
    Don’t forget dignity, pride, moral capital, careful planning and wise evauation based on objective assessment/startegy – and rakyat’s support for that which is right, true and fair – are just about the only thing in you have in your pitiful arsenel for ultimate vindication!

    I don’t blame Nizar, a decent and smart chap, but the sore losers and the directing brains behind – whose own game back fired and their ocillations and prevarication allowed this Perak debacle to happen – who have no guts to come to the forefront to face the flak and the police action, when it comes or the alternative, migration!

  39. Ask all these stupid idiot to eat SHIT la!!!!!
    Let’s wait for UMNO party election in March 09.
    After the election, UMNO will split into 2!
    Dorah camp – with KJ the leader will form a party with name UNO Kubur Baru.
    That time will be the best time for us to attack BeeNd UMNO and UNO Kubur Baru!!!

  40. This old and rotten tree (referring umno) is dying soon. Capturing the state without the rakyat consent is more greather than sultan perak consent means najib leading these bunch of umno nincompoop heading to the mouth of volcano. PR will strenghten is foothold than ever. Cheers, PR, SMART MOVE.. by using this tactic instead of clashing with them, you are now getting the rakyat to increase the pressure against dictatorship rule many generations.

  41. C’mon people. Let BN have Perak.THey are just digging themselves a grave.

    Lets look at the positive points from this.
    A) 2 ADUN’s charged for corruption is what led to the transfer of power. If they ‘magically’ suddenly have their charges dropped, it is a clear indication of corruption and abuse of power. Trust me, such open dishonest actions are not going to help BN capture support from young Malays wanting reforms and an end to corruption. As long as the 2 ADUN’s are in BN expect BN’s support to continue to dwindle.

    B) Let us now wait and see how the land conversion for new villages in Perak plays out. If UMNO goes back and refuses to convert the land to freehold, MCA will have no more excuses. PR has already shown clearly that they can do it. But MCA-UMNO (BN) cannot? Expect MCA/Gerakan to get a bashing and support to drop to zero.

    C) Now BN is on the defensive in Perak. They can’t afford to lose a single ADUN. BN’s is going to have to dig into their pockets really deep to keep their ADUN’s there happy while having to deal with the upcoming Sarawak state elections. Trust me, there won’t be enough money to keep ALL the ADUN’s and MP’s across Malaysia happy.

    D) Now DAP-PR will have the breathing space to revisit and restructure their team in Perak (which was pretty dismal to begin with). I personally felt very embarassed trying to endorse the PR team in Perak. Now this problem can be solved.

    So the situation is not all that bad. Let BN have Perak. Let them dig themselves deeper into the hole.

  42. I agree that PR should let the matter rest and leave now as everyone knows they had been stab in the back and snatched from them. The Rakyat knows and Perakians will not forget.

    Please maintain the momentum for the next 3-4 years and rest assure that you will be returned to power with much bigger majority and BN will be thrashed…just like in Kelantan.

    Go back to your camps to lick your wounds. Learn from the Chinese kung fu films……lose this round…learns more tricks…stay close and intimate to Rakyat and then when GE 13 comes….victory is yours.

    Its the fact that there is nothing you can do at all now. Even the court cases you had initiated will be swept away as we know how it works in Malaysia. The sky’s crow are all the same…all black.

    So….give it up for the moment and then recoup with greater force and with more zest energy and come back fighting with your guns blazing and sweep the kataks away and give BN a very good thrashing……be positive and live for another day.

  43. It’s really SAD to see all this things going on in Perak…..Malaysia will have no future under the leadership of BN. I don’t understand why there are still lots of people supporting BN. How will the world see us? I am really shameful to tell people if I am from Perak. The first thing people have in mind is the corrupted and money politics that UMNO/BN is playing to grab the power over. To grab something that does not belong to you will not last you long……THE DAY WILL COME!!!

  44. PR Perak MB is face clearly shown that he is the real malay leader that all races highly respected. YOU! WON’T be able to find nice looking and kind hearted peoples like this in Umno. Chinese saying…”a person look build from the heart” think!!! if you don’t believed what I say, ask all fortune teller in malaysia or in china.

  45. Perak Menteri Besar Mohd Nizar Jamaluddin today clocked in to work as usual at 10am, along with his exco members, but 45 minutes later they were out of the state secretariat building.
    In that 45 minutes, Mohd Nizar’s press conference was interrupted twice by state secretary Abdul Rahman Hashim and Ipoh police chief Azisman Alias.
    How can they do such things to an honourable head of a state government ?
    This is too much !!!

  46. Chanjoe….strike when the iron still hot. This time people like you and me should lend a helping hand to PR. We must help with brains not fist. How? Tell and spread convince all you friends who are support the BN. Debate them by facts and thruths.

  48. The sultan has decided. UNMOputras lost their b**** after PP & KT to face the people of Perak in fresh election. EC, for sure, will hear nothing about any call for fresh election while the UNMO Court will not want to offend the new and last Malaysian ’emperor

    With all the odds stacked against PR, and almost no hope and the power to change things, the best course of action for PR is to hand-over power to these power-crazy people.

    Wait for next GE to have the last laugh.

  49. I think nothing PR can do right now, as u know that the EC, the police and even the palace are behind them.

    Moral of the story, please dun choose non-qualified people like ex-postman la, orang cacat la, high school drop-out la, disqualified accounts clerk la to become representatives.

    We must keep the spirit on and kick Na-jis ass out in the next GE but only let them cling on Johore and redicule them.

    By now, who voted BN in the last GE must really be regreting for the stupid act they have done, especially Perakians. I think only apek and aunties who read MSM will vote for them because even though we din’t vote for them, they also can recoup power with backdoor exit, so y vote for them, wake la you stupid tong san apek.

  50. I hate to say the following things because I’ve been by and large a supported of Pakatan.

    I think once there are many people sharing the zeal of Anwar to take over the federal government through cross overs, Pakatan has lost the moral high ground on calling such cross overs unethical.

    It is purely a legal battle now. Are the pre-signed resignation letters valid in the eyes of law? If they are, then (assuming Hee has one signed too) BN does not have the majority and Perak takeover is nothing short of a coup-de-tat. Save Perak, Pakatan may, but at the federal level, BN can also throw in the letters of resignation of BN MPs who decided to cross over to Pakatan. Is Anwar prepared to admit that if that situation arises, he will accept the pre-signed letters as valid, and agree to a dissolution of Parliament for a snap election?

    I hope Anwar can answer that, so that we know exactly where Pakatan stands on this issue. It is imperative that Pakatan continues to hold the high moral ground. If in losing Perak, you could gain federal power, it’s not too bad an exchange.

  51. I agree with localgrad.

    PR should screen their candidates properly and even the present reps should be rescreened too. I am afraid more PR reps will jump ship once BN has the Govt in place. After all, BN needs at least an Indian rep, at least 2 Chinese reps to put up a nice face saving state govt.

    I still think DAP should apologise to all Perak voters for their Jelapang rep who had jumped ship. That goes to PKR too as they had 2 kataks on their sides. The people of Perak had gave them the chance to rule in Perak but 1 or 2 of their reps had to spoil the situation.

    No doubt come next GE 13, the kataks will be kicked out but the Perak people deserves an apology from both DAP and PKR. Thats the most honourable thing to do to at least pacify PR supporters and then work hadr to maintian the trust for GE 13. I am sure that the people will give PR a bigger mandate in GE 13.

  52. There is no sense of urgency on the part of the PM in-waiting to man tackle the recession to lessen the hardships of the rakyat. Very obviously by now that he is more concern over planning and scheming to topple state govt using big amounts of rakyat money.

    Can we trust this man with our/and future generation’s future? Malaysians, WAKE UP. Unite and get rid of this traitor by voting him out in any election.

  53. Najib said no money is involved. There are 900 cases of money politics in Umno election, can you believe what he claimed ???
    Instead of tackling the economy as the minister of finance, he is more interested in fiancing PR legislators !!!

  54. The DAP has not learned from umno’s 1994 coup d’etat

    In the 1994 state election, PBS won the election, however shortly after being announced the winner, almost all PBS assemblymen defected to Barisan Nasional. Joseph Pairin was not allowed to be sworn in as Chief Minister. Instead Tun Sakaran Dandai of UMNO was then sworn to be the eighth Chief Minister of Sabah

  55. Mr Karpal Singh had voice out loud and clear that he will file the case against HRH Perak and new BN Perak state govt on breach of Constitution Law if the new appointed BN MB proceed on swearing process today!

    Well Done Mr Karpal!
    We the whole Nations salute you on your courage!

    BTW, where is the President of Bar Council who get the Datukship from HRH Perak?
    Pls ask her what’s the function of Bar Council when aware there is breach of Consitution Law occur in the country?
    [deleted]
    Pls tell me what’s meant by justice, fairness, impartiality?
    Me a lawyer buruk is well qualify than you!

    President of Bar Council, pls step down! You are embrassing the NGO and all the lawyer in the country!

  56. Agree – the best solution is to have a fresh state-wide election for Perak.

    While walking past the desk of a young lady colleague of mine this morning, I overheard her telling her friend that having a fresh election should be the right solution. I am sure this is also the view of many Malaysians.

    Perak must not set the precedence and open the flood-gate of legitimizing an illegitimate government, or else the episode will repeat itself in other states and Malaysians will have no peace all the year round.

  59. Mr Karpal Singh said that the Perak Sultan would be making an unconstitutional decision by appointing a new BN Menteri Besar before the total resignation of the incumbent state cabinet, according to the State Constitution Article 16(6). If the Sultan has to avoid doing something which is unconstitutional, then HRH shall either declare dissolution of the State Assembly or keep waiting until the PR state cabinet has fully resigned from the official posts of the Perak State Executive Council (EXCO) before HRH’s proceeding to appoint a new MB.

    I guess the Sultan will continue to appoint a new MB from BN. Mr Karpal Singh’s further action of taking the matter to court for judicial review will surely be something which the ruler want for a long period of time. When the court rules, it will most likely rule in such a way that the appointment of a new MB by the Sultan is not unconstitutional because the Sultan as the arbiter or as the stake holder during the transition period of power turnover has been given the implied prerogative power to remove the losing MB and to appoint the winning MB to the official post of the Menteri Besar. The rulers of the nine states in Peninsular Malaysia have a strong desire to restore the declining influence and power of the rulers. The Perak constitutional crisis may be a good opportunity for the rulers to seek for a ruling from the Federal Court in order to set a precedent judgement which is favourable to the restoration of power by the rulers.

    The Perak constitutional crisis exposed the fact to many that the rulers themselves were indeed having discontent about the status quo. They will not hesitate to take any opportunity which is perceived to be able to allow them to regain the prerogative power in the important appointment of key officials to the top governmental offices. The rulers themselves sometimes are also the silent minorities who have to give in to the dictatorial reign of the BN Federal Government using the threat of compelling armed forces and brutal police forces.

    When both the Sultan and the people are weak under the BN dictatorial reign, then the people shall assist the Sultan to gain additional intervening power in order to build up a good checks-and-balances system in our political structure.

  60. I still got no idea why people are trying to say it’s all Ngeh-Nga’s fault when it’s apparent Hee was the one who jumped…

    Yes Ngeh-Nga is bad, but does that mean one should go as far as to hug the enemy as a so called protest to the leadership? Ridiculous…

  62. PR should screen their candidates properly
    For what? Webbed toes? Eyes that can move independently? Unable to pass a lamppost without urinating on it?

    Perhaps it’s me – someone point me at a photo on the Internet of Pakatan Rakyat’s HQ skyscraper in Putrajaya, will you? They haven’t got anything! PR is you, and if you don’t stand as a candidate, they’ve got sweet FA! Have you visited their website recently to see all the candidates, and videos of the candidates’ speeches at their recent national assembly? No? Of course you haven’t! They haven’t even got a webpage with an e-book for sale and some pay-per-click ads on it!

    Wake up! Pakatan Rakyat needs you! I hope if this sorry episode in Perak achieves nothing else, it motivates Malaysians to take part in PR and help build on their successes in recent elections.

  63. After the election and before a government is formed, the constitutional monarch has to determine the party that commands the majority votes to form the government. Having the state assembly in place, it will be the assembly in session which would determine whether the government still commands the support of the majority of the members. Thus, while the ruler has the discretion to assent to the dissolution of the legislative assembly, he will have to let the assembly determine whether the government still commands the support of the members, to change the leader.

    The persons presented to the ruler, led by Najib were elected officials of the legislative assembly of Perak. Over time, there can be changes to their status, especially when some on their writing resigned the position as member of ADUN, Perak.

    The Ruler has the authority to decide, when the occasion was right. The occasion was right only to decide on the dissolution of the Assembly, as requested by the MB. To decide on a change of government, it has to be based on the outcome of the state assembly in session.

    It would be seen to be fair the Pakatan state government should be allowed to continue until it is voted out by the assembly. The change of government now could be seen as coup d’etat made easy by the Ruler. The Ruler might have unwittingly seen to be involved in politics. The perception of the public is important for them to continue to have the same high regards for royalty.

    Ordinary people may be concerned about afterlife. To PM AAB, he is more concerned about after-PMship. He is doing his level best to be in the good book of Najib.

  65. ///If there is now had been a “no confidence” motion in the Perak State Assembly” you mean that you have majority numbers to defeat it? Why argue on procedures to countermand the sultan’s decision when procedures, even if followed first, would turn the same in the same result?///— Jeffrey

    I think there is a difference. If the state assembly is convened now, the speaker will inform the meeting that there are now three vacancies, so the results would be 29-27, Pakatan wins.

  66. Mr Lim,
    I agree with many of them who said that PR should let BN have the state of Perak. In this way you all will gain more respect.
    PR must show that it is a civilised and educated party. They do not behave like BN plunderers.
    Yes, run away to fight another day and you will be stronger.
    RESPECT FOR THE SULTAN”S ORDER IS VERY IMPORTANT!
    The only lesson that be learnt from this episode is that candidates must be committed to DAP’s ideal and principles.
    It has been a bitter leson for you and colleague to have fielded a running dog(bitch) who bites the hands that feed it!

  67. ///to say clearly that you PR are not following the Ruler’s command and take on the consequences of Shabery’s threats of “treason” if there is where you actually want to go and fight.///– Jeffrey

    The moment MB Nizar resigns, he has no more right to court cases. So why should he give it up, on behalf of the people who voted Pakatan to power.

  69. Article XVI(6) of Perak state constitution according to KimQuek says: “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly, then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”

    It does not say how the fact of Mentri Besar’s ceasing to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly is to be determined by the Sultan. This means that calling 27 BN aduns in along with 3 kataks to Istana to say the support BN and not PR can be the right form of determination that arithmetically PR lost the majority.

    In such a case, the wording “unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly” the existing MB shall tender his resignation (meaning if he does not so tender he can be sacked by the Sultan).

    Obviously if he does not so tender, it means that the MB Nizar has the alternative recourse under the state constitution to request the Ruler to dissolve the Legislative Assembly.

    So what is the point of Article XVI(6) of Perak state constitution having a provision and giving the MB the alternative recourse to request the Ruler to dissolve the Legislative Assembly, if the Ruler can veto that decision/recourse of the MB?

    If it were intended by makers of Perak state constitution that the Ruler could so veto the MB’s request to dissolve the Legislative Assembly, then Article XVI(6) would have been drafted differently – for example “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly, then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, OR IF OTHERWISE HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS DERTERMINES AT HIS ABSOLUTE DISCRETION THAT THE DISSOLUTION OF LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY IS UNNECESSARY, he (MB) shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”

    Now this “new” Article XVI(6) gives a third option in CAPITAL LETTERS – ie the Ruler’s determination of necessity to dissolve assembly and deciding against when the opposite side has the majority.

    Article XVI(6) in present form gives ONLY TWO OPTIONS if by whatever way determined, the MB has lost majority : either (1) he requests Ruler to dissolve legislative assembly or (2) resigns his government (it being implied that if he fails to do that, the Ruler can sack him).

    There is by this reasoning no third option (unless one adds in the words in capitals).

    On the basis of the above, I think the better and objective view in logic – as it ought to be the case in law – that Mohd Nizar/PR is entitled as of right of an incumbent the prerogative and option to request the Ruler to dissolve the Legislative Assembly in lieu of voluntarily resigning himself and the government.

    Bar Council’s president Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan may be right to say that Sultan Azlan Shah’s decision should not be questioned for whatever other reasons but Ambiaga & the Bar Council she represents cannot be taken to be right to say (prematurely) that the course that has been taken so far as to negative Nijar’s option to dissolve the Legislative Assembly to pave way for general state elections is the correct position in logic or law!

    A caveat: My comments are based solely on wordings of Article XVI(6) of Perak state constitution without benefit of reading the rest for context.

  74. Take the matter to the Makhamah Rakyat asap!!!!!!!
    Democracy is priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Perak state must Call for Fresh Election !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    There is no other way!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  76. ||Why argue on procedures to countermand the sultan’s decision when procedures, even if followed first, would turn the same in the same result?|| Jeffrey

    According to your logical and legal reasoning President Obama and Chief Justice Roberts were foolish to administer the presidential oath of office a second time.
    The result would turn out exactly the same, why bother about procedures?

  77. Perakians,

    Don’t let the 3 jumping frog decide you fate!
    Action is more important that talk!
    Sign the petition! We want fresh election!
    If you yourself is not going to protect your own rights, who else you expect to protect your rights?!
    Don’t blame on others if we ourselves not prepare to do anything to change the situation! Only waiting for others to fight and yet want to make complaint!

  78. What do you want Ambiga to say after she had been given the “Datuk Seri’ by the very same Sultan?

    In one swipe….both the Sultan and Bar Council’s credibility has been swept down the drain.

    I wish to call on other Bar Council Committee members to resign from their post to protest Ambiga’s VERY bias statement. As a learned lawyer, she should interpret the law in a manner that is sensible…..

    Now its, BN + Police + State Secretary + Sultan + Bar Council (Ambiga) agst the Rakyat

  79. YB + friends

    It is not about law;
    a)It was broken by the EC.
    b)It was cast aside by the Palace.

    It is about survival;
    1)BN + Najib needed a boost badly.
    2)The Monarchy(ies) have to redeem back some power, after all the bashing from, Mahathir the Royal Hater.

    *For BN, there will be another time when, the Perak House will be in a more compromising position.
    *For the Duli2, they might never find BN in such friendly mood ever again. Anyway easier to kick the PR than BN isn’t it?

    Regardless, YB, please conserve + find a winnable battle.

  83. ///“If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly, then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”///

    The above should mean that it has been determined in an official manner that the MB ceases to cammand the confidence of the majority of the legislative assembly. One cannot expect the ruler to check around on a daily basis whether the MB was enjoying the support of the majority; so the constitution did not expect those duties to be undertaken by the ruler.

    In the present case, the MB requested the ruler to use his discretion to disslove the assembly, though it has not been proven that he had lost support of the majority of the LA. So it is outside the perview of the ruler to call upon other bodies to say that the MB has lost his support, since it could not be proven whether all the members which included the kataks are still legally the members of ADUN. I said before that the ruler made his decision on as is basis, without the recourse to check on the status of kataks. But there was no emergency for such action.

    The decison of the ruler is binding. But the timing is debatable. Yet, the MB could be found to have been wrongly dismissed, though legally he has lost the position. That is why he should not resign so that the issue can be settled in court.

  84. Say what you want…..A new MB—albiet an Extra MB has been sworn in by the supposedly well learned Sultan.

    Look positive to the GE 13 and 13 will be the end of BN and final nail for MCA.

    Hee will be history ….maybe enjoying the sunshine in Hawaii with her riches from her betrayal and maybe even go to Seoul for plastic sugery to change her face so people can’t recognise her. I bet you she will shift to Johor of even Sabah or Sarawak and maybe be an Ah Long with her huge capital.

    Such ill gained riches will not last and few years later…she will lose all in the new casinoes in Macau and Pulau Sentosa, Spore. Then maybe we can see a new beggar begging for money and she will get pity due to her situation…..

  87. I disagree completely that PR should run away from any fight let alone one as critical as the one in Perak. This of course comes from a person who has been in sports his whole life and got accustom to the notion of not giving up until the last point is played.

    I simply cannot understand how Jeffrey and Grace come to the conclusion that all is lost in Perak and therefore PR should stand down. These are features displayed by what we call Noobs in sports. Where is the fighting spirit? Why is everything over when it just started? Come on. BN came over and snatch away one of five States from PKR using dubious means and money politics and all you can do is tell me game over?

    What about the razor thin majority which BN professes to be having – no controversies? What about dissolution of the State Assembly. In all his wisedom can the Sultan withhold his consent from calling for a State election if the State is in turmoil with a much hated State government ruling over a citizenry which does support and openly goes against it? Is the State Government really legal if it got its mandate from traitors who have switch side. How can votes from these traitors be counted when they no longer represent the voice of the people who voted them in? Not enough of reason here to fight on still? Is it not possible to reorganise, rethink strategies while at the same time engage the enemy. It is not only possible but essential if PKR is to continue to enjoy the support of the people.

    The people expect PKR to be resilient, upright and foremost fair. It has the strongest weapon which BN can only dream of having and that is the goodwill and support of the people. This will triumph against anything these BN beast can throw at it. Please do not give up the fight for Perak. It has just begun.

  88. I take a different view from Loh’s interpretation in two areas:

    1. His statement that “If the state assembly is convened now, the speaker will inform the meeting that there are now three vacancies, so the results would be 29-27, Pakatan wins.” I have the impression to the contrary (rightly or wrongly) that according to Perak State Constitution, Election Commission’s decision that leters of resignation are ineffective – and therefore there are NO three vacancies – will prevail and take operation over the PR’s Speaker (so that when it comes to vote) BN still has majority….

    2. on issues raised in Loh’s comments February 6th, 2009 at 16: 23.46, in relation to Article XVI(6), the Ruler’s discretion does not arise because it is MB Nizar’s right to have the assembly dissolved for state elections or take the other course, resign, there being only 2 options and no 3rd option by which Ruler’s input is involved or required (unless Article XVI(6), is re-worded the way I did). This is baed on strict reading of that article says against background precepts that we’re a constitutional and not absolute monarchy.

  89. Sign petition? Do you think it’s useful? Worst come to worst, sue the ‘haram’ government.

    In the next coming months, will be tough time for both sides.
    PR has no doubt won the sympathy from Rakyat and I think very soon Hee will give up her seat unless if she moves her service centre to Pulau Pangkor. All Chinese folks in Silibin and Jelapang are prepared to confront her.
    Nobody can challenge the will of Rakyat.

    I hope YB Nga is right that PR will wrestle the state back very soon. I am sure BN state assemblymen will be enlighthened…

    God Bless!

  90. The fight is on going even though is symbolic and in politic time is essential. After all the courts case etc etc all become academic. But if not challenge then there will be no advancement and no case law.

    Any way, PR will not be losser anyway. One have to Analise deeper in this happening.

    Firstly anti hooping law should be studied and make law as soon as possible.

    Secondly, all must learn the lesson to respect the wish of people other wise what the government so form will not be respected.

    This crisis will make BN shiver as this has make the people unite solidly around PR and this is just a good sight for the coming GE. All it not loss any way.

    Also please take note of the silence of the other BN components parties. These are scary and once again it proof that BN did not make up of equal partners but a dominant one. This will send out a very strong message to the people in the coming GE.

    The people of Perak will sure make a sound choice and disputing one in the next GE. All it not lose, time will proof it.

    Though many many are despairs and feel frustrated by the turn of event but all is not lost and please be patient.

    PR will return and return in a strong way. Let wait for them.

  91. What do you can expect from a lame duck PM, except make a few noises and continue with his sleep. “I have packed my bags with gold and read to go…..”
    A day when morality has found a hold in this evil and corrupted UMNO regime, the world will be a much safer and better place.
    PR and the rakyat must accept the fact that this Bohonland have no more safety net…

  92. I just couldn’t see the face of BN’s MB, Zambry..He looks like corrupted and cunning man…Its very sad to have our PR end in Perak In this way..Why they betray us? Why should we have time in PR in the first place…Why didn’t do proper scanning of candidates…Its a lesson..lets do something to bring PR back to Perak..We got o time to wait til next election..it has to be now..Don’t let BN screw us up again in Perak…Do we need to start like how they do in country like Thailand…I am ready for it..are you ready?

  94. The MalaysiaInsider Report KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 6 says “The Pakatan Rakyat will take legal action against the Sultan of Perak and Barisan Nasional if they persist in appointing a new BN menteri besar, scheduled for 3pm today at Istana Iskandariah in Kuala Kangsar, DAP chairman Karpal Singh said.”

    At this moment I have no thoughts, opinion or response to this move, whether it is wise, right, foolish or wrong strategy, but objectively however on strict interpretation of law, I think Karpal Singh has a basis to argue. I won’t dismiss it as frivolous, baseless or ridiculous. That does not however have anything to do with him/PR winning the case in Court, which at this moment chances are maybe 0.000000001%? :)

  95. If the crossovers were from BN, they will certainly call for fresh elections. There is no democratic process as long as BN is in power. Lets us all pray the next GE we can wipe them off forever.

  96. “Nasi Sudah Jadi Bubur”…….Kerajaan PR Perak sudah jadi kubur.

    Thats whats is official as per the Perak Royalty. The royalty will be remembered as a hand in the crisis and therefore has lost all credibility among the subjects of Perak. Writing great memoirs and books on how to be a good King or Sultan comes to nought after what happened these 2 days. Shame Shame Shame on you…Sultan Azlan Shah.

    How to command the peoples respect when you do not want to listen to the majority but kow tow to the Najis led group? I am ashamed of holding you so high previously.

    Ambiga (Bar Council)…guess next year…you will be honour with another title like Datuk Seri. See what the Star Wong got by sticking with Bee N?

  97. That sleepy flipflop guy lame duck guy is sleep walking, oops!! sleep talking now. What a clown.
    He will flip flop again in due time.
    PKR just sue those bums on the Perak political issue till their pants drop even though we have almost zero chances with the present bunch of so-called “reformed” judiciary by that flip flop lame duck guy.

  98. Pakatan leaders must explore all possible means in respond to the crisis, and must be seen doing so by the voters who voted them into office. This is a temporary setback, but it is also an advantage for PR.

  99. Forget Abdullah. The guy might as well be dead for all we care. He has unleashed a wild bull in Najib. Najib is calling the shot now. As far as Perak is concerned, it is a lost cause so no point crying over spilt milk. In spite of Umno unsavory reputation, PR falls into their trap. With their money and the evil Najib, PR should expect the worst. PR has been warned not to accept BN people as most are devils in disguise but it wouldn’t listen. The worst thing is that the one who cause the most damage is from DAP, the she-devil Hee Yit Foong. I hope DAP will chose it’s people very carefully the next time. However all is not lost. I think people now are aware of what the BN stands for and this is going to be Najib’s Waterloo. The opposition should move on and prepare itself for the next general election. Believe me, Perak is the clarion call for change.

  100. The words “unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly” in Article XVI(6),where is it said there that His Royal Highness could turn down MB’s request? Where is it implied if not expressly stated? I don’t see it anywhere. Can someone or Loh point out where? If you can point out some other provisions in the Perak State Constitution which says it is the Sultan’s prerogative to appoint MB and with that power of appointment has the concomitant power to revoke that appointment if in His Royal Highness’s discretion the MB loses majority, then clearly I am wrong and Karpal/PR’s case is no case!

    As I said I base my opinion solely on Article XVI(6)’s wording without benefit of context ie other provisions of the Perak State Constitution that we’re not privy to access to read.

  101. The election rightly or wrongly considered the letters of resignation by the kataks not valid, and used its authority to reject by-election. So by-election could not be held. Agreed. But when the meeting is convened under the authority of the speaker, who considered the letters valid, they were then valid as far as the legislative assembly is concerned when he is still the Speaker. The Kataks will not be allowed into the assembly hall.

    The article XVI (6) concerning the discretion of the ruler to decide house resolution or resignation of MB would only arise when it has been first proven that the MB has officially lost the majority vote in LA. It is not the ruler’s duty to determine that after the governemnt has been formed.

    It may be recalled that the MB requested the ruler to dissolve the assembly, and it can be done based on reasons unconnected with article XVI (6) ; it irrespective of whether the MB had the confidence of the LA.. It might be just to return power to the voters. Many democratic countries do not wait until the term ends to conduct election. This is one such instance that the MB of Perak thought he had the right to request the ruler to use the discretion to dissolve the LA for fresh election. The request need not be linked to the article referred to above.

  102. The reason why I say that: the question is not whether existing MB lost his majority. He may well have. The point is when a elected majority govt loses its majority, it is convention – and logic, I think – to dissolve the legislative body, whether its state or parliament, and go back to the people for fresh mandate to determine who between 2 sides have majority due to or notwithstanding changed circumstances.

    In a system of absolute monarchy, the Ruler has final say as to who has majority and has royal blessing to govern based on royal decision and discretion.

    In a system of parliamentary constitutional monarchy (as distinct from absolute monarchy) the final arbiter of who has majority should next rule/govern – after the existing govt’s position has been undermined and shown lacking majority – ought to be people/voters and not that of a Monarch. Isn’t this so?

  103. MyPeoplePower Says:

    “Mr Karpal Singh had voice out loud and clear that he will file the case against HRH Perak and new BN Perak state govt on breach of Constitution Law if the new appointed BN MB proceed on swearing process today!

    Well Done Mr Karpal!
    We the whole Nations salute you on your courage!”

    Nizar nafi isu saman Sultan

    Oleh ARIFFUDDIN ISHAK dan ZANARIAH ABD. MUTALIB

    PETALING JAYA: Pengerusi DAP, Karpal Singh mendakwa Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin akan menyaman Sultan Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah jika Barisan Nasional (BN) mengambil alih kuasa dengan Menteri Besar baru mengangkat sumpah hari ini.

    Beliau berkata Sultan Perak telah bertindak di luar bidang kuasanya dalam mengenepikan kerajaan negeri Pakatan Rakyat di bawah pimpinan Nizar.

    Bagaimanapun Nizar ketika dihubungi menafikan dakwaan tersebut.

    “Saya tak tahu mengenai perkara (saman) itu, saya akan hubungi Karpal sendiri untuk tahu apa yang sebenarnya beliau lakukan.

    “Saya memang tak tahu mengenai saman-saman ini, nanti saya dapatkan kedudukan sebenar,” katanya kepada mStar Online.
    ——————————————————————-

    *sigh* I have to agree with Jeffrey here. There’s no point rubbing salt into the wound. We lost the battle….but do not loose the war.Regroup and rethink. Consolidate the administration of other Pakatan states. Threatening legal action against the HRH Sultan, protesting and venting your anger in front of the Istana – its futile and counter productive. A young boy is already hurt in the process.

    The politician and the royalties might be blinded, but the general public is not. The BN coup de tat is an abomination. And how dare they claim to be safeguarding the constitution. Let them be for now. Such administration built upon personal greed and self serving purposes won’t last. God’s will – the righteous will prevail. And that time will come sooner or later.

    Thank you YAB Dato’ IR Nizar. You have ‘fought’ well. You are the very few individuals that we can look up to as a role model. A true Malaysian, Perakian and in actual fact the true servant of HRH of Sultan. Not those ‘snakes’ who rather see Perak in ruins for their own interest.

  104. ||however on strict interpretation of law, I think Karpal Singh has a basis to argue. I won’t dismiss it as frivolous, baseless or ridiculous. That does not however have anything to do with him/PR winning the case in Court, which at this moment chances are maybe 0.000000001%?|| Jeffrey

    Do you mean you only have 0.000000001% faith in the Palace of Justice? Is it really that rotten?

  106. Tomorrow at 6pm, there will be a CNY celebration by BN at Yuk Choy Primary School.
    All people who are righteous should boycott the occasion as Najib will attend.
    All Perakians should use whatever peaceful means to show our displeasure of the way BN precipitates the crisis and its treatment of MB and its Exco !!!

  107. ///The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is wrong when he said that Pakatan Rakyat must now accept a new government in Perak just as Barisan Nasional had accepted the results of last year’s general election.///

    When one is robbed, one will have to accept the loss. But the question is always why one should have been robbed.

    The BN has formed the Perak state governement, though it has not the moral authority to do so. The people will have no choice but to acccept that BN ruled in Perak. The question will always be why BN stooped so low as to have to steal the state. On earns respect, and one cannot demand it.

    The police force as a federal government department should be neutral. When they are assigned to serve in the state of Perak, they take order from the government in Perak. But no. They take order from Federal governemnt which is equivalent to UMNO, and is not neutral in performing their duties. This not only happens in Perak, it happens in all other non-BN states as well. It is time that state governments organise their own armed forces.

  108. Jeffrey – I’ve mentioned before I have my doubts over the language in the Federal Constitution. Language changes over time, and is (mostly) whatever its speakers understand it to be. Since I speak English like a native, you’ll have to pardon me stickin my oar in.

    then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council

    I’m struggling with ‘unless’. In my mind soaked in years of beer and imperative language programming, ‘unless’ could mean ‘if it doesn’t happen that’ – like if / else, only arranged in reverse order. I am in some doubts that Malaysia has an organisation promoting ‘plain English’, but I would hope that whenever a government is elected that has wits and aren’t afraid to use them, some of the language in your more fundamental laws is either updated or has its interpretation fixed in some official guiding documentation.

    The word ‘request’ infers some discretion on the part of HRH, otherwise I’d expect ‘direction’, ‘command’ or ‘order’. Everything depends how binding that ‘request’ is on the Sultan.

  109. As a constitutional monarch, a request to him is just a constitutional formality. In a republic, the MB himself call for dissolution of assemby fior fresh election if a vote of no confidence or some other means (signatures, physical presence or Statutory Declarations) are used to show he lost the majority.

    What I am saying is that if I am voted in by majority and after a time, “evidence” is shown that I lost that majority by reason of defections, there can be no transfer of power based on just the “evidence” stated, without first going through the rigmarole of dissolving the assemby and returning to the people for fresh mandate to reaffirm which side has really the new majority under these changed conditions produced by the defections.

    Therefore the true and final evidence of majority is the people’s will as reflected in fresh election and NOT the first set of “evidence” mentioned ie of defections and adding together the numbers or even a vote of no confidence by the rival side.

    That first set of “evidence” (eg proven defections) to show the existing state govt lost majority in state assembly – and even a vote of no confidence to show that it lost the majority – cannot translate to a a transfer of power to the opposite side that has got majority in numbers.

    It only translates to providing a justification to force the existing govt that lost majority to either resign or seek fresh mandate by state elections.

    In short, proof of BN’s having more numbers from defection is proof that Nizar should resign or ask the Ruler, as a matter of formality that cannot be turned down, for dissolution of assembly to pave way for fresh election.

    I must emphasise that the (a) proof of BN’s having more or majority numbers in state assembly from defection is NOT and NEVER CAN BE proof that (b) BN, which has the majority numbers now has also mandate of the rakyat/Perakians.

    Proof of majority numbers in assembly is NOT EQUAL in logic or law to proof of mandate because majority numbers are procured by defections of political turncoats AND the right and legitimacy to govern is derived from peoples mandate that only canm be ascertained in state election.

    Having majority in numbers in state assembly by itself CANNOT VEST the right and legitimacy to govern and rule especially when that majority is procured from defections!

    Any other arrangement of transferring of power then would constitute a circumvention by some higher body of the need to re-establish the wishes of the people/voters or a pre-emption of what their wishes might be, which has not verified or legitimised by their votes. Isn’t that so Loh?

    In an Absolute Monarch that higher person is the Ruler : however in a Constitutional Monarchy/Parliamentary system under which we operate, there is no higher body because the people are the highest: and that is why parliamentary system of government is based on sovereignty of the people and not sovereignty of the Ruler.

    Did I go wrong anywhere ?

  110. Where you have gone wrong, spinmeister, is your earlier conviction that PR should admit defeat and simply accept the Sultan’s decision. Now that Karpal wants to challenge the Sultan’s decision, all of a sudden, you say that PR has indeed got a case which is not frivolous.

    *Sigh* You have lost us with your usual “On the one hand it is this, and on the other hand it is that” spin.

  113. I did not put it that well above, ie the juxtaposition of the word “majority” against mandate.

    Majority is different from mandate. Majority in numbers reflects mandate, so majority forms govt. If opposite side disproves your majority in numbers and shows it has more numbers than you, does it mean that the other side has people’s mandate?

    I say no. I say it only shows that the majority that you once have as an insignia or badge if you will to reflect your mandate has been discredited – which means that everyone has got to go back to the people for mandate.

    The fact that the opposite side now has the majority numbers due to defections – and therefore has a more ‘shining’ insignia or badge does not justify the conclusion that the other side has the mandate : for no one should confuse majority numbers as a badge/insignia of mandate as mandate itself – no more than one who wears a insignia/badge of a school can prove defnitely that he is a student of the school and thus given that badge/insignia.

    That’s all I am saying, according to my simple reasoning – sorry.

  114. The challenge must go all the way to the Federal courts. We need to see the true colour of the Chief Justice.

    Especially since Jeffrey is going to substantiate in the courts what he just said:

    “Having majority in numbers in state assembly by itself CANNOT VEST the right and legitimacy to govern and rule especially when that majority is procured from defections!”

    Naturally we agree with this statement, and also his prediction that we only have a 0.000000000001 pct chance of winning.

  115. Dear Rakyat Malaysia,

    They, the gomen of the country can resort to steal, cheat, snatch and rob from the people of Perak by allowing 4 kataks (of 2 with corruption allegation) to jump ship and standing besides him(Ah Jib), that says a lot of this gomen, especially the character of soon-to-be-PM. They will resort to illegal means simply to win. Confirm hopeless in the eyes of the rakyat, putting aside all scandals he involves as the deputy PM.

    The battle is over for Perak. Let’s rest the case and prepare for more battles ahead to win the WAR for our future generations. Remember when you go back to your kampungs and towns, explain that to all folks what this corrupted gomen doing in Perak and around the country. Explain to the younger generation of what the country has become under this deceptive gomen. Encourage them to register as voters and prepare for the next battle ahead. Let’s the people’s power destroy the corrupted regime in the coming days.

    Battle just began. Let’s press on for the betterment of all!

    To Ah Jib,

    Yes, you take over Perak, don’t forget your rating sink even more because of your illegal means. Soon you will be the Most-Rotten & disgraceful PM in the history of Malaysia. Like George Bush. Despise by the world including his countrymen. Got a gift of a shoe before he stepped down.

  116. Pakatan has been given a dose of its own medicine; let this be a lesson for them that their own plans can backfire (re: party hopping) and by playing dirty politics and wasting time in internal bickerings and threatening rhetoric vis a vis BN, they have taken their eye off the ball: to govern the remaining states under its control and to step up to the mark and make a difference for the rakyat that elected it.

    I personally see what happened in Perak as a prelude to a similar showdown in Kedah and maybe Selangor. Pakatan needs to mature-up and stop its infatuation with taking federal government, govern what you have and build the confidence of the rakyat so that you can be voted in as the government after the next GE.

    Anwar is a hypocritical loser and a liability to Pakatan. For a more focused approach to governing the remaining Pakatan states, the opposition needs to replace him with a less decisive and a more competent figurehead.

  117. Najis is going to be feted like a hero in next month’s UMNO general assembly. He has demonstrated to the hardcore in UMNO that the old system of “Money Talks and Bullshit Walks” is alive and well in the party. Why the need for reform ? Just take what we want. All the insurances for UMNO are in place – PDRM, AG’s Chambers, Judiciary, MACC.

  118. Godfather, regarding your posting February 6th, 2009 at 17: 56.17, I have never said that going against a Ruler’s decision is a right decision for PR, balancing and considering all factors including Malay tradition/adat that is respected.

    Here I am only talking/discussing the merits of how to interpret and evaluate article XVI (6) and its legal implications (since Karpal evinces that course of action and I discuss this as a matter of interest) which is a different issue from the above wider issue whether it is good or not to disobey the Ruler’s command. Other considerations have to be weighed.

    Why is your mind so crammed and unable to separate evaluation of merits and demerits of one issue from other issue(s)?

    Your mind sems fossilised. Let your thoughts wander a bit.

    They are, for too long, compressed and not let out to roam beyond left or right, black or white and therefore not only they can’t appreciate different nuances in one issue but also cannot separate different issues!

    If you don’t agree or don’t understand what has been commented, at least do the courtesy not to disrupt by your irrelevant comments.

  119. “The fact that the opposite side now has the majority numbers due to defections – and therefore has a more ’shining’ insignia or badge does not justify the conclusion that the other side has the mandate : for no one should confuse majority numbers as a badge/insignia of mandate as mandate itself – no more than one who wears a insignia/badge of a school can prove defnitely that he is a student of the school and thus given that badge/insignia.”

    Can someone summarise the above in 2 lines please.

  120. YB + Friends

    Plain + simple English.

    1)In Parliamentary system, the people rules, thru’ the Parliament House.
    2)The Monarch sovereign but does not rule.

    A)The EC had taken away the Speakers right to rule.
    B)The Monarch had side step the the Menteri Besar mandate to rule.

    Sue all you like, Mahathir had executivetize the Courts.

  121. I clearly don’t understand why someone would say that the strategy to go against the Sultan’s decision is a wrong one, and then a few hours later say that there is indeed a legal case against the Sultan’s decision ? Did Karpal’s decision have anything to do with your u-turn ? Or rather, your twists and turns ?

  122. This from our spinmeister at 1.52 today:

    “Even if you were wronged – and unjustly evicted – (which you are), please be dignified and don’t engage in further self delusion and make belief that you could salvage the situation.”

    The our spinmeister said this at 5.23 today, after Malaysiakini reported that Karpal will challenge the Sultan’s decision:

    “In a system of parliamentary constitutional monarchy (as distinct from absolute monarchy) the final arbiter of who has majority should next rule/govern – after the existing govt’s position has been undermined and shown lacking majority – ought to be people/voters and not that of a Monarch. Isn’t this so?”

    What is your final recommendation, counselor ? In no more than 4 lines please.

  123. Godfather,

    When people look at an issue and determine that there may be a legal argument or case, doies it necessarily mean that they have to sue? They also consider other factors : the costs of pursuing the case, whether the one sued has more money to stand the marathon of fighting th case by appeals for protracted perid, or has the assets and money to pay even if the case were won, and whether the side sued may resort to employing gangsters to harm your family members and so on and after weighing and balancing all factors may decide not to seek the legal recourse even though by law or logic one has a good case.

    So a discussion of (a) the merits of the case is one issue and (b) the actual taking up or not taking up action after weighing all factors to sue is another separate issue.

    So are you saying if we evaluate (b) and discuss or say that considering all things the case should not be pursued, we cannot therefore independently discuss (a) whether, if the case were pursued there is merit or fighting chance to win it?

    You can’t see the difference between set of considerations in (a) different from (b) or are you saying those that discuss (a) cannot discuss set of considerations in (b) or has forfeited that opportunity to do so?

    Please explain which is which as I am amazed by the rigidity of your thinking.

  124. Education Minister and Umno Youth head Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein who was confident that the transfer of power in Perak could spread to three other states which were still ruled by the Pakatan Rakyat (PR) coalition namely Kedah, Selangor and Penang.
    ====================================================

    A nationwide constitutional crisis nightmare awaits Malaysians.

  127. Godfather I know a person of your rigid mindset will jump to say, “What is your final recommendation, counselor ? In no more than 4 lines please.”

    In 4 lines? Don’t you read properly – my posting February 6th, 2009 at 17: 01.11 above here in which I said, “At this moment I have no thoughts, opinion or response to this (Karpal’s) move, whether it is wise, right, foolish or wrong strategy, but objectively however on strict interpretation of law, I think Karpal Singh has a basis to argue.”

    Do you understand simple English of what that means (in context of preceding comments/postings)?

  128. We already have your type of advice: We have a case, but whether or not we can win is a totally different issue. As long as we have a case, then we will go for it. What is there to lose ? This is 4 lines only.

  129. “Are you now saying that we have a case, but that we should not sue ? yes or no would be sufficient” – Godfather.

    Regardless whether I could answer your question, can you please answer mine first of whether I have any obligation here, moral or legal, to respond or answer your question as you framed it? Please answer me first.

  131. As far as i am concern………..the royalty was just being made used of.And unfortunately an “apple” may have been used to damaged the whole basket of the other apples.In this case the Apple refers to Royalties.Just went the rakyat have gone towards and embrace the royalty to uphold justice and blah blah blah….and fortunately some other royalties have opened their eyes and knew what was wrong and what was right to do.So…Umno need this to break the trust the rakyat have towards the royalties and it seems it works well.BN is not too concern about the near future (BACKLASH FROM VOTERS)in any FUTURE election since they have puppets in the election commission and judiaciary and ofcourse PDRM.What concerns most for BN or shall i say umno is the rakyat looking up to the royalties for guidance and to uphold justice . And since respects have restored from the views of the rakyat till todate for the royalties ,…..then comes this Perak episode whcih will eventually “again” tarnish their good name and mistrust by the rakyat.So whether we like it or not,what BN have done is a complete success for their”AGENDA”(again..never mind the future backlash)…but most important is getting the rakyat to not trust royalties again.That is utmost important for BN and Umno.Others..well..they can tackle it one at a time.Well…its a priority for Umno to get the rakyat to not trust Royalties is the RIGHT priority in the right order.

  133. http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/17769-perak-umno-youth-launch-yellow-ribbon-campaign-for-sultan

    As right thinking and law abiding citizens of the country, we should not accept what this youth wing of a corrupted political party ask the people to do.

    They are doing things with ulterior motives. A sincere person does not go for benefits which are derived from showing false and pretentious support to anybody up there.

    It is precisely because of such spineless and subservient people that the law of the country and the legitimate birthright power of the people are usurped.

    That is why the few “elites” are still enjoying all the benefits that are the results of the toil, blood and sweat of the people. Those few people are always “up there” and demand all sorts of perks an greedily while the rest of the rakyat suffered silently.

    Time has come for all these to change or be changed!

    Time for the rakyat to demand what is lawfully and rightfully theirs.

    Respect and honour must be earned not demanded.

    The rakyat must be respected too. It is because of the magnanimity and good will of the people that those people got elected and supported. In return what the rakyat get is ungratefulness and unappreciated and sidelined.

    And we are asked to show more support and sympathy???

  134. And this at 1.41 pm today by the spinmeister:

    “I have to say this : PR is foolishly fighting the wrong battle here.”

    Are you now saying that we have a case but we are still foolishing fighting the wrong battle ?

  135. “Can someone summarise the above in 2 lines please.” – Godfather

    If that were done, it may be a waste of effort because you might still not understand it, even after consulting the dictionaries several times. For the problem lies, sir, not in the language but the habit of mind.

  140. My answer should have been: On the one hand, you are under no obligation to respond to any of my questions. On the other hand, you are under some moral obligation to answer to readers here why you flip-flopped between 1 pm and 5 pm today. But then you could follow in Badawi’s footsteps and not bother to explain your flip-flops !

  141. Godfather, it is very simple. Jeffrey was of one mind on one subject earlier, and of another mind at a later time. His mind has states, much as Malaysia does. You are stuck with old-fashioned ideas where states of mind, once realised are concrete and unchanging for years at a time. Jeffrey is a modern Malaysian whose states are much more mercurial, and it may be difficult to say, given our understanding of what the state is at one time, what the state may be a very short time later.

  142. Godfather,

    There is no flip-flopping between 1 pm and 5 pm today except to you due to your incapacity to differentiate separate issues.

    Which of course you could better appreciate if you have first read carefully and understood what I have explained in posting of February 6th, 2009 at 18: 31.12 above in simple English albeit imperfect typo spellings that my 9 year old neighbour also could understand.

    I have got to take my leave for now for dinner. Bye for now.

  143. OrangRojak, being stuck with old-fashioned ideas where states of mind, once realised are concrete and unchanging for years is one of the sad thing for many (not all) people when they grow old. I think we should not point this out too loudly.

  145. Pingback: Sounds funny… « Disciple of Jesus

  147. While PR fights on, this episode will strengthen PR’s and people resolve and further quicken the demise of BN. Yes, BN has won this round but this round is also its coup de grace.

    When the next election is held, I think DAP should form a committee to select potential candidates. As far as possible don’t ever select the so-called grassroots activists who are no more than solders of fortune.

    For the next election, please put undergrad2 in Behrang, Godfather in Changkat Jering and Limkamput in Bota. As for Jelapang, we can just put a donkey if Jong is not interested.

    From now on, don’t ever trust people who can speak or write eloquently. They do not mean a thing. Strip them naked, they are prostitutes.

  152. Jeffrey – enjoy your dinner. I too was a little dismayed to see your position on the ‘2 MBs’ issue earlier. I didn’t feel strongly enough to post the reply I typed.

    Your ‘Why appeal for the proper process to be followed?‘ seemed like an invitation to give up hope. Your attitude toward Karpal’s roar seemed more heartening. We don’t know what the larger game plan is. Perhaps Nizar has been advised that if he wants to credibly cry ‘brutality!’, he should keep screaming ‘No!’, rather than smilingly take his clothes off and bend over?

    I think BN is presenting this as a fait accompli, to borrow your French from earlier. If Nizar tenders his resignation, it really is a done deal, and the press will be full of the usual chinless wonders brandishing the paperwork and saying “everything is in order”. It is a dangerous gambit, and I don’t really know whether it’s advisable or not – that’s why I didn’t respond to your deflating comment earlier.

    Perhaps your comments were made with sangfroid, but I strongly suspect Godfather is more sanguine, and can feel his stocks rise and fall with every nod and shake of your head.

  153. This new leadership from frogs is truly NOT what the people of Perak wants. Best to call for an election. If not state election, just the 3 MPs who resigned can be called.

    Just wait & see. BN leadership will not be long. With such a precarious mix, there will surely be some frogs from BN hopping over to PR in the near future. Let’s see what happens then. Nizar, you have just to standby…

  154. The sultan should dissolve the state government and call for a fresh election.It is surprising that that the sultan made a decision based on the three of which two are facing criminal charges and the lady having betrayed her party.It was a bold move and a cowardly part by the Barisan who dare not face an election.BN very well know they will be thrashed.It shows how puerile our next Prime Minister will be when faced with a crisis.We will be facing more of such crisis and BN/UMNO will be forced to call for a fresh mandate.PKR should vet their future candidates well before making them as people’s representatives.

  155. that jelapang assemblywoman is such a crook, one minute she’s against BN, the next she quits DAP and supports BN!! even if she has problems with fellow DAP members, this is not the way to take revenge. settle it among yourselves, don’t include the electorates. the same goes to the other 3 crooks. 1 minute u support PKR now u don’t, is that how you behave as politicians? where are your principles? you 4 cannot be trusted!!!

    and to Mohd Nizar and exco, take it easy. let it go. the past 10-11 mths were an experience. let’s remember the sweet moments. life can be a bitch. there’s always tomorrow. Maybe Sultan Azlan was wrong but he has made a decision. and there’s always the courts.

  156. Those of us who are old enough will recall that a case similar to the current Perak political and constitutional crisis happened in Sarawak in 1966.

    The Sarawak Constitution has provisions which are similar to those in the Perak Constitution.

    In the Sarawak case, the then Chief Minister Stephen Kalong Ningkan filed a suit in the high court after the then Governor Tun Abang Openg ordered him to resign.

    The Governor was acting on a petition submitted by 20 state assemblymen who said they had lost faith in Stephen’s leadership.

    When Stephen refused to step down, the Governor declared that he and his exco members had been sacked.

    The Governor then named Tawi Sli as the new Chief Minister.

    Stephen filed the suit and the High Court ruled that his dismissal was null and void as it was ultra vires the Constitution.

    Perhaps, Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin may yet get to be restored as Mentri Besar, based on the Sarawak case law.

  157. yhsiew Says:

    ///February 6th, 2009 at 18: 35.20
    Education Minister and Umno Youth head Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein who was confident that the transfer of power in Perak could spread to three other states which were still ruled by the Pakatan Rakyat (PR) coalition namely Kedah, Selangor and Penang.
    ====================================================

    A nationwide constitutional crisis nightmare awaits Malaysians.///

    The BN government has found that after spending RM 50 million and more could not win even one seat in Selangor, The money would be better spent buying elected members, than buying voters. UMNO has reformed; and Perak is a shinning example of efficient money politics. The same business approach would buy the required kataks in all other states, except Kelantan.

    Since it would be very costly to conduct general elections, and that the results returned by voters are only for records, the government should amend the election rules. There is no longer any requirement for voting. All voters are candidates, and they will be selected by lottery from the Mycard registry, and appointed to state assemblies and parliament. Selected voters can sell their position to the highest bidder. Najib need not won on the lottery, but he can buy and anybody who wish to sell. He can in fact buy all 222 seats in parliament, and substitute whoever he wants from the list of winners. This is a ridiculous approach. Obviously it is; so is the change of government in Perak and the yet to be purchased governments in Kedah, Selangor and Penang.

    We shall be practicing free-market democracy of the first kind.

  158. The Sultan of Perak is a very wise man…..under difficult situation, he made his decision in the best interest of his subjects and our country as a whole.

    Accept it for now…….trust the Sultan’s decision.

  160. Seen on the Nut Graph:

    Nizar’s refusal to quit unconstitutional: Hishammuddin

    “I think it is a matter of the constitution and the law, and how you treat your rulers.”
    …
    Hishamuddin, who is also Education Minister

    When I first came to Malaysia and read stories like this in the New Straits Times, I automatically assumed the NST was a satirical magazine, and was looking forward to living in a nation that had such great humour in its press. Little did I know back then.

  161. The new Perak government is unstable and here’s why. There must be many disgruntled assembly members of Umno who have missed out on becoming an instant millionaire. All they have to do is for two of them to hop over to Pakatan Rakyat and bring down the BN government. From there, they can negotiate their price to hop back. The state government can flip and flop between PR and BN until all BN members are satisfied or the Sultan agrees to hold fresh elections.

    Yes, it’s immoral and unprincipled but you reap what you sow. By allowing a government to be replaced by another by means of questionable defections when HRH had the constitutional authority and the moral necessity to dissolve the assembly has opened the floodgates for more dubious wheeling dealing.

  162. zak_hammaad Says:
    February 6th, 2009 at 18: 11.01

    “Anwar is a hypocritical loser and a liability to Pakatan. For a more focused approach to governing the remaining Pakatan states, the opposition needs to replace him with a less decisive and a more competent figurehead”

    I kinda of agree with zak here. Dato’ Seri Anwar is becoming a liability to PR and PKR. His eagerness for the ‘katak’ game was an ill conceived strategy. And the failure to respond shall i say ‘adequately’ for lack of proper word, to the crisis in Perak was shambolic/disorderly. As part of the ‘rethinking’/consolidating process, Pakatan will need to move beyond Dato’ Seri Anwar. They need to have an alternative leader waiting in the wings, ready to be at the helm when and if necessary to ensure Pakatan remain steadfast on their principal and values.

    Pertaining to principal and values of the Pakatan- let it be a lesson that lest PAS and DAP would like to go back to the old days of PAS= only in kelantan and DAP=only in Penang, then stop being ‘childish’ on trivial issues be it from the initial MB Perak selection (which in my opinion gave a bad impression to HRH Sultan of PR governance) to PAS & YB Karpal harping on hudud when it does not even ….exist i.e. can’t practically be implemented. it was all just rhetorical and yet Pakatan couldn’t even keep their ‘house in order’.

    So Jeffrey and Godfather- the main thing is we are all ‘saddened’ by what is happening in Perak. In terms of what should be done next, as rightly pointed out, is open to discussion and various interpretations. As far as I am concern, janganlah what peribahasa melayu would say “dikejar tak dapat, yang dikendong keciciran”. Pakatan will have more to loose if they allow BN to manipulate the situation into Monarchy vs Pakatan which will inevitably lead to the insinuation that Pakatan leaders are committing ‘treason’ etc all the crap. *sigh* They must be a silver lining in the cloud.

  165. Don’t fret too much about taking back Perak.
    Perak will be Malaysia’s Alamo.

    Like in Alamo, PR may have lost Perak, but it will become a rallying cry and a symbol for all those who desire reform and change and it will forever be a stain/torn on BN that it will never be able to remove fully.

    Let no one forget what happened in Perak. Let people never forget that BN enticed 2 ADUN’s charged with corruption to crossover in order to bring down the state government. And remember that this was not only UMNO’s doing. DAP’s Hee was enticed by MCA, so MCA is fully behind and supportive of this new Perak government formed by corrupt individuals. Let no one forget.

  166. If you went on a frolic of your own whilst overseas and somebody had taken snapshots of you like somebody did with Michael Phelps with his bong, there’s nothing much left that you wouldn’t do when asked, when threatened with fifteen minutes of “fame”.

  168. No point telling sleepy head anything. Money politics is umno culture. He will not be able to see anything wrong with it here. To umno its ok to buy support. You need not win it or earn it. But mark my words. What happened in Perak today will be the start of umno’s closing chapter. So smile on najib. Smile on while you still can. It is more than a wrong move. It is actually a fatal move for you and umno.

  169. Just look at the way the State Secretary shouted in front of MB of Perak! Is this not a lesson for Penang and Selangor to look at who their State Secretaries, the State Financial Officers and State Legal Advisors are.

  170. “All they have to do is for two of them to hop over to Pakatan Rakyat and bring down the BN government. From there, they can negotiate their price to hop back.”

    Better still if they were to do the Three Musketeers thing – one for all and all for one – flip flop as a group. Flop one way and become instant multimillionaires and flop back only to flop back again.

    Welcome to a new kind of politics to be found only in Malaysia – the politics of the flip-flop.

    A new circus is in town!

  171. bong
    Like say “oh yeah, soz, I got that wrong didn’t I? Kids, don’t do what I did, it’s not socially acceptable. Thanks to all my friends for their support.”? I’m not sure where you’re going with the Phelps analogy.

    pong
    Is what they call that back-and-forth game.

  172. Nizar, you should give back the \Datuk Seri\ title as it has no worth, what more coming from a person who has lost the respect of Perakians and Malaysians in general. You don’t have to worry as he is not the most powerful person in Perak. The most powerful person is God Almighty who knows the truth and Who will serve justice to UMNO and their cronies! Peace will not come to Perak until the will of the rakyat is respected and upheld. Peace will not come until the three \pembelot\ are taught a lesson by the people they have betrayed and cheated. God willing, these three low-downs will be forced to vacate their posts soon to pave way for by-elections.

  173. All the media as usual talking bad about PR.So,prove to them PR is bad by buying few frogs from BN and take over Perak again.No need to wait for next election.Immoral,unethical,injustice …..who cares nobody give a damn for these word.So,start the game now.

  174. “Strip them naked, they are prostitutes.” LIMKAPUT

    That’s what you do with prostitutes, I think.

    I hope it is not their nakedness that turn them into whores because that would qualify everybody in the state legislative assembly. I assure you, you don’t want to know what the National Union of Whores (Perak Branch) could do.

  175. A state in turmoil and in mourning
    A people whose mandate had been squandered
    An illegal government formed in a questionable manner
    Yet the perpetrators claim legitimacy and propriety

    Claiming to have a majority when it is a tie of 28-28
    On the back of of an immoral and dubious difference of three
    To tip the manipulated scale to their shameless favour
    Yet the perpetrators claim legitimacy and propriety

    When the constitution and legality say it is not
    They make it up with impunity as though it is
    And then natural protestation and contest are put forth
    Yet the perpetrators claim legitimacy and propriety

    The truth and all are there for everyone to see
    The peoples’ mandate should be their own
    By the people, of the people, for the people
    Yet at this moment it is not to be

  177. Can somebody please print in bold the name of that kurang ajar BAST*RD who shouted at reporters/journalists infront of MB Nizar – “get out!”

    Perak State Secretary, an inherited scumbag from previous BN govt?

  178. ///Reproduced for information, by Art-Harun see; by Art-harunhttp://art-harun.blogspot.com/2009/02/perak-crisis-unsolicited-legal-opinion.html

    Was the Sultan Right?–

    A case law, decided by our Court in 1966 bears important resemblance to the crisis in Perak now. In Stephen Kalong Ningkan v. Tun Abang Haji Openg and Tawi Sli [1966] 2 MLJ 187, the Governor of Sarawak received a letter signed by 21 members of the Council Negri (equivalent to the Legislative Assembly) expressing no confidence in Stephen Kalong Ningkan as the Chief Minister. The Governor then asked Stephen to resign. Stephen refused to resign. The Governor then declared that Stephen and all the members of the Supreme Council (equivalent to the Executive Council) as having ceased to hold office. A new Chief Minister was then appointed by the Governor. The case ended up in the High Court where among others, a declaration that the purported dismissal of Stephen as the Chief Minister was ultra vires the Constitution and was therefore null and void.

    The Sarawak Constitution contain provisions which are almost identical to the provisions of the Perak Constitution.

    Article 6 (3) provides:
    “The Governor shall appoint an Chief Minister a member of the Council Negri who in his judgment in likely to command the confidence of a majority of the members of the Council Negri and shall appoint the other members in accordance with the advice of the Chief Minister from among the members of the Council Negri.”

    By Article 7, it is provided as follows:
    “(1) If the Chief Minister ceases to command the confidence of a majority of the members of the Council Negri, then, unless at his request the Governor dissolves the Council Negri, the Chief Minister shall tender the resignation of the members of the Supreme Council.

    (2) A member of the Supreme Council may at any time resign his office by writing under his hand addressed to the Governor, and a member of the Supreme Council other than the Chief Minister shall also vacate his office if his appointment thereto in revoked by the Governor acting in accordance with the advice of the Chief Minister.

    (3) Subject to cll (1) and (2), a member of the Supreme Council other than the Chief Minister shall hold office at the Governor’s pleasure.”

    Notice the almost identical provisions. It has to be noted that the Sarawak Constitution also provides, (as do the Perak Constitution) that the Chief Minister does not hold office at the pleasure of the Governor.

    The Court held as follows:
    i) for Article 7 (1) to kick in, there must be a vote of no confidence from the floor of the Assembly. Mere letters signed by the members of the Assembly expressing no confidence to the Governor was not sufficient.

    ii) the Governor had no power to dismiss the Chief Minister under the Constitution.

    iii) the purported dismissal of the CM was then ultra vires the Sarawak state Constitution.

    What is even more important is the learned Judge’s observation in respect of the exercise by the Governor of his discretionary power to appoint a CM and to withhold his consent when there is a request to dissolve the Assembly. This is what His Lordship said:
    “A lot has been said about the duty and powers and discretion of the Governor. His paramount duty is to “act in accordance with the advice of the Supreme Council or of a member thereof acting under the general authority of the Council”. (Article 10(1). There are two occasions when the Governor has a discretion, that is, when he can act without, or even contrary to, the advice of the Supreme Council. Those occasions are in the performance of the following functions –
    (a) the appointment of a Chief Minister;
    (b) the withholding of consent to a request for the dissolution of the Council Negri. (Article 10 (2) ).

    As regards (a), nobody could be so foolish as to suggest that a Governor could appoint a second Chief Minister while there was still one in office. As regards (b), this probably has in mind a situation of splinter parties, as has been the case in France, when a general election could not be expected to show an overall majority for any one party. In Sarawak, it seems to me that a Chief Minister may advise a dissolution, even though he has not as yet lost the confidence of Council Negri. In such circumstances, the Governor’s refusal to dissolve might be conventionally unconstitutional, although not illegal.”

    This is still good law as this decision has never been overturned by a higher Court.

    Article 16 (6) of the Perak state constitution reads:
    Quote:
    “If the MB ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly, then, unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”Next to be

    Article 16 (7) reads:

    “Subject to Clause (6) a member of the Executive Council other than the MB shall hold office at His Royal Highness’ pleasure, but any member of the Council may at any time resign his office.”

    Unquote///

    Guess what our High court judge will say? The governor of Sarawak was appointed whereas the ruler is hereditary. The case law in Sarawak cannot be precedent. Case dismissed!

  180. If PR win the next GE, will Najis advice Ah-gong to declare darurat so that he can rule forever? Turning Bolehland into another Myanmar ?

    Of course this is the worst case scenario….but who knows what the C4 expert will do just to stay in power ?

    God bless M’sia…

  182. god bless malaysia.

    instead of reviewing what is wrong with your own pakatan, the easiest way of course is to lay yr finger to BN/Umno. pakatan has been slapped by their own game, and i find it utterly disgusted when these hyprcrites start calling BN unethical / no moral value. is it morally acceptable when pakatan themselves initiated the cross over during the late 2008? let me justify here I am not residing any party. Even if pakatan claimed back Perak next week, will this make any positive impact? BN was and is still governing the country with majority seats. lots of public fund would be spent during the by-election when it should be used to addressed the current economic situation. Please accept the defeat gracefully and bounce back stronger in the next GE. the pakatan are not losers and definately not ‘sore loser’

    Cheers

  183. The Malaysian electorate better mature fast.

    Next elections, don’t just vote any nominee or candidate fielded by your party. Look at their resume and if you don’t like what you see, do not vote for them. That should make the party leadership think carefully before they nominate one of their own.

  185. I just saw the YouTube video “Mohd Nizar ‘booted out’ of MB’s office” – Nizar’s just been subjected to a coup – and he’s funny! I laughed out loud at the phone call from Barack Obama. Well done, Nizar you’re my new hero.

    That should make the party leadership think carefully before they nominate one of their own.
    You need to clean the lens on your telescope. PR isn’t the Republican party. They only have one to nominate, and that person has to take the day off from their job at KFC. I apologise to any PR member that has graduated to a job at Secret Recipe. I’m still waiting for someone to show me the evidence of a major political party with the organisation and backing to make it all the way into a successful government. From where I sit (I can see a DAP office!) it looks like a hobby for most of the people involved, and one that’s on a very limited budget.

    ahahaha captcha ‘New-York world’!

  186. Does the monarch have the discretion to disregard the MB’s advise to dissolve the assembly?

    Dissolving the assembly can be for reasons other than loss of confidence of the majority. The assembly has to be dissolved periodically for elections. Suppose the King refuses to dissolve the assembly on the MB’s advise for the purpose of elections? Does this mean the govt of the day can continue illegitimately?

    I think the intention of the constitution is that the MB and his govt has the option of :

    1) resign and hand over power
    2) call for fresh elections.

    This means that the constitutional monarch should follow the advise of the MB to dissolve the assembly if requested or the incumbent govt is denied option 2.

  187. ///Godfather Says:

    February 6th, 2009 at 19: 34.49
    I suggest that Nizar should simply return the “Dato’ Seri” title to the Sultan. Anyone other than Jeffrey disagree ?///

    No. Otherwise all the Datuks are from BN. It is good to muddle a bit.

  189. National elections are becoming more and more important as time goes by because the stakes are getting much higher and bigger.

    People with vested interests will, by hook or by crook, want to protect their coffers and even seek to increase their share of the takings, to show that theirs is a profitable venture and enterprise.

    National interests and their own personal venture converge, and would be considered as their commercial machinery and apparatus. That is where the danger lies – the nations wealth would be manipulated according to their whim and fancy.

    The nation’s economic health and political well-being would then be at the mercy and liberty of these what-you-call-them (plunderers, opportunists, pseudo-leaders, whatever).

    Wealth corrupts. Wealth and power corrupt to the core.

  191. What were the Constitutional framers thinking when they inserted phrases like “shall act in accordance with advice” and “may use his discretion” in the appointment of the Prime Minister and when deciding whether to dissolve the legislatve assembly?

    Did anyone have the wisdom and the foresight enough to want to preserve their brains so we could find out what they were thinking then??

  192. ///OrangRojak Says:

    February 6th, 2009 at 20: 05.08
    Seen on the Nut Graph:

    Nizar’s refusal to quit unconstitutional: Hishammuddin

    “I think it is a matter of the constitution and the law, and how you treat your rulers.”
    …
    Hishamuddin, who is also Education Minister ///

    Does the constitution demands that people resign even if he thinks that it was inappropriate to do so?

    People treat the rulers with respect. That does not equal to do as told by rulers.

    Luckily he did not say anything about how the teachers should treat the Education Minister. He might have just waved his keris at them.

  193. The game is not over yet! Mr. Karpal Singh is going to take the constitutional disputes in Perak to court next week.

    The disputable issues are
    1) whether the service tenure of the three defectors can be validly extended when the undated resignation letters have been shown by the Perak Speaker, taking into consideration that the State Constitution gives the Perak Speaker the sole discretion to determine the membership status of a State Assembly Representative?
    2) whether the Sultan has the absolute right to determine that a motion of no confidence against MB Nizar has been duly passed in accordance with the due process of assembly session, while this motion of no confidence is the only decisive factor for determining whether Nizar can be legally removed from the post of MB?
    3) if there is no evidence indicating that a motion of no confidence has been passed by majority members of the State Assembly against MB Nizar, then whether sacking of Nizar from the post of MB by the Sultan can be taken as a wrongful dismissal and therefore shall be declared as unconstitutional by the court?

    If the court is to rule in favour of Pakatan Rakyat, then there will a winning situation for Pakatan Rakyat on moral ground.

    However, if the court is to rule in favour of the Sultan, then it will carry the meaning that the power of appointing and dismissing MB by the Sultan has been clearly confirmed by the court in this precedent judgement. This also means that the power of the Executive has been checked and condoned by the prerogative power of the Sultan to appoint or dismiss an MB based on the sole discretion of the Sultan. This will also means that Malaysia political structure is on the trend of moving towards an absolute monarchy system or despotism.

    No matter how the outcome of the court decision can be, the ultimate loser may not necessarily be the people. No matter whether Pakatan Rakyat wins or the Sultan wins in the court case, it will carry a good news for the people because an additional checks-and-balances system on the excessive political power of Barisan Nasional by way of counterveil through judicial review or through the Sultan’s prerogative power will be made available to the people.

  194. KennyGan Says:

    February 6th, 2009 at 21: 33.14
    Does the monarch have the discretion to disregard the MB’s advise to dissolve the assembly?”

    UNDER THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES, the Sultan/Agong has the discretion (which Bar Council President says ‘is not justiciable’ and which I don’t agree) to agree to the MB/PM’s request for a dissolution of the SLA/Parliament. If he doesn’t agree then he has to agree to dissolve the SLA/Parliament. What is clear is that he cannot sit still and stare.

    The key to solving the issue is first to determine what those circumstances are.

  196. “Prior to this thread, the Sultan was heaped with praises enough to make a rock star turn blue or pink or whatever color you turn to when embarassed and others green with envy.

    Wa happened???” (undergrad2)

    When the TRUE colors of the subject of praise become clear, so will the ACTUAL color of the praise. Simple.

    Colors, when blended will change. We all learn that at school.

    The logic being :

    Color of praised + color of praise = New color of praised.

    Hence the change. Also you can venture to mix and match all the possible color combinations and, of course, newer colors will emerge.

    No flip flop here. Just natural occurrences.

  197. The numbers worked against Pakatan Rakyat, let us look at that basis, and PR should graciously bow out and look at other options and strategies such as the legal proceeding to settle, if PR can muster strong cases.

    Right now, PR should be gracious to exit and not to create further hardship and confusion for the common people. Let BN have it first, because the numbers they have.

    Do not ever bring in the royalty in this political dispute, never ever to mention suing the royalty, it would be even stupid to speak about it, knowing very well it would be a futile and wasteful exercise. Moreover who knows PR may form the government soon? So why antagonize royalty for no apparent reason?

    Use the resources for constructive programme to work out the way forward, whether in this dispute or for the next election.

    M.B. Nizar and his EXCO should have exited voluntarily instead of beng booted out.

    It is just not the time for PR to argue about constitutionality over the loss of the power to rule the state. Look at their individual ‘houses’ and put them in order. Some of the representatives are really of substandard calibre and dubious character, and that they are the cause of PR’s own collapse.

    So just pick up the pieces and move forward. PR must remember that it was their own party members that caused their down fall, like what Lim Guan Eng described Hee from Jelapang as the ‘Ming Dynasty’s general that bring in the Manchu soldiers through the great wall into the capital and that bought the down fall of Ming Dynasty to Manchu”.

    So look at regaining the “Eastern Hill” (Chinese proverb) soon instead of crying over the spilled milk.

  199. “Wa happened???” – undergrad2

    – Well you fool me once, you fool me twice and three times you’re goner! Anyway, it’s not me. I had always been suspicious of them – cakap banyak saja, talk talk talk but never walk walk walk!

  200. My goodness,what a shame,the monarch acted liken to the executive or head of government.Can our present law or constitution bar him from doing liked what he did in perak against the pr state elected government ? Now what happend when say the three independent candidates suddently change their mind or stand and declared their support for pr ? Will the monarch do as he did previuosly ? Angthing can happen now as the state assembly seats are 28 bn,28 pr.These frogs are crazy and can do crazy thing as well. right guys.

  201. It may be true to say that the Sultan’s discretion to appoint is not justiciable. However, it may not be true to say that the Sultan’s discretion to dismiss the MB is also not justiciable. The Sultan must make sure certain critical conditions have been met (such as in the case when the MB has been convicted by court for criminal offence and be fined for more than RM2,000 or in the case when a motion of no confidence against the MB has been duly passed in the State Assembly Session) before HRH can decide on the dismissal of the MB.

  202. It seems that the events unfolded on a prearranged script. Even before step one, it was already determined that BN would form the government. The subsequent events and interviews with the ‘frogs’ were to arrive at the preset decision.

    Then why the total refusal to give an audience to the Pakatan leaders, namely Anwar, Kit and Hadi Awang to say their piece?
    Why the refusal to convene the assembly when the speaker requested for it?
    Why the refusal to consider the position of the three defectors which is pending the the courts?
    Why the refusal to consider the corruption charges facing the two frogs?
    Why the refusal to consider the total absence of any Indian reps and a mere two Chinese reps who are unfit for public office?
    Why the haste in swearing in the phoney MB when he first one is still in office?
    Why cordon off the state secretariat?
    Who gave the authority to the State secretary and Police to order out the MB.
    Why the haste in asking for the return of the official car keys and the MB to vacate his residence?

    The sultan was NOT neutral at all.

  203. Prior to this thread, the Sultan was heaped with praises enough to make a rock star turn blue or pink or whatever color you turn to when embarassed and others green with envy.
    Wa happened??? undergrad2

    That is because most Malaysians are gullible fools. In fact I am thinking about a new strategy: PR should be organised like a corporation i.e. recruiting only the intellectual, the professional and the experts. Forget about the scumb*g grassroot activists.

    Why do I say the discretion is justiciable and is not unfettered? Because it is a constitutional monarchy. Duh…!! undergrad2

    I can’t agree with you more.

  205. Jong Says:
    February 6th, 2009 at 22: 08.39
    “Well you fool me once, you fool me twice and three times you’re goner! “

    More like – He fools you once, he is smart. He fools you twice, he is twice as smart. He fools you thrice, you’re gone!

  207. limkamput Says:

    February 6th, 2009 at 22: 27.52
    But then, they may not understand what is constitutional monarchy.”

    That’s what they want you to think!

    A smart guy is the one who makes you think he’s stupid. Just watch how a Japanese businessman makes his way through customs.

  209. You read of the law giving judges discretion. That does not mean he can do anything. That discretion however personal given to him by law has to be justiciably exercised. ‘Discretion’ under the law is never unfettered.

    More so when you have a constitutional monarchy in place.

  212. Jong Says:
    February 6th, 2009 at 22: 08.39
    “Well you fool me once, you fool me twice and three times you’re goner! “

    More like – He fools you once, he is smart. He fools you twice, he is twice as smart. He fools you thrice, you’re gone!

    I believe I’ve only fooled you twice. I intend to stay that way! :)

  213. From what I could see from this event, there is not right justice being employed.

    Looking from the 3rd person perspective, it is obvious that the BN is taking the state unlawfully (rampasan kuasa yang melampau). I think Democracy does not exist in Malaysia in general and for Perak in this case.

    Since the rakyat rely on their king for total rightfulness and justice, I wonder why Tuanku did not take into consideration about the two ex-PKR members who are facing court case. It is a test? We shall wait until Feb 10 and if these two convicts are not convicted, then something is fishy.

    Besides, why do Tuanku insisted that our MB Nizar and his exco members resign with immediate effect? It is so obvious that this was done to make way for the UMNO/BN people to take control of the state without much fight and to escape re-election process.

    If you are a Perakian, I’m sure that you will definitely vote for PR again and that’s what BN want to avoid. When MB Nizar was sworn in, people were cheerful and dancing happily but now, when this fellow was sworn in, people protest. So it this the democracy that we are seeking? It could hardly been found in boleh-land.

    May MB Nizar and all the PR leaders stay strong and fight the evils till the end. The rakyat know which side is the right one. FEAR NO EVIL!

  215. Not just Nizar must return the title. All PR members and leaders must return the titles, starting with AI. That should make the titles useless which is what most of us want anyway. Now i can appreciate why Sdr Lim has never had a title.

  216. The royal families in Malaysia have long since been waiting for a good chance to strike back on the Executive in order to show off their prowess in expanding and increasing the power of the rulers. Nizar is just the very unlucky ones because he happens to be the MB of Perak at the present critical moment.

    I wonder whether the Sultan has the rights to call all State Assembly Representatives to come to his residential palace for signing the motion of no confidence against Nizar as the MB. Perhaps the Federal Court may permit a motion in relation to the State Assembly be passed in such a manner since in the corporate world, most company directors are so used to sign the Board of Directors’ circular resolution without having to convene a formal company meeting. I don’t know whether the Constitution allows passing a motion of the State Assembly in such an odd manner. We will have to wait for the court to drop judgement on this. Stay tune and keep watching…

  217. Malaysia if we want to enjoy demoncray,can we not amend certain state and federal laws or constitutions ,not allowing the states monarch and federal agong to interfer with the peoples’choice of leaders in a general electon. Currently certain cases had happened when the monarch determined the MB or chief minister.IN a general election, the people made a choice and the monarch should be made to respect the descision.Like wise should the people decided to kick any frog out of the assemby or parliament the monarch should not interfer.The fate of the people lies in the peoples’hand not in the monarch’s.We respect the monarch but the monarch also should respect the peoples’s choice,right.

  218. Shahrir said
    “… it will be easier on consumers and businesses now for the state to be under BN. There will be better coordination and less politicking between the state and federal governments. They will enjoy more impact from federal support,”

    I was going to paraphrase this, but I doubt anybody with a mental age over 5 needs it. This is another example that would have convinced me I was reading a work of satire 3 years ago.

    How is money normally distributed from the government to the States? Is there a national budget for the states, and well-known amounts and dates for payments, or is it a question of sending the right representative to put buccae to gluteals in KL?

  219. For BN,… here’s an advice by John McCain:
    “Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely and who rely on you in rerun.
    -John McCain

    The Perak people do not glorify the winning of BN. I believe in their hearts, PR is with them. Let not this loss defeat our true hearts of the people and PR. We know very well that the next GE PR will win big, very very big to recover from the injustice done to them.

    Quote from Billy Lim (once Ind candidate for Bkt.Bintang):
    source: daretofail dot com.
    Life is not about running away from mistake or giving up when we fail. It is about learning from our mistake and failures and learning how to handle them to finally reach our goals.

  220. Last year RPK told us how Rosie has the cheek to scold Sultan Selangor on phone.

    Sure Rosie did the same this round. Sure Rosie made threatening remarks this round. If not, how on earth HRH did such thing to hurt his subjects?

    Go to hell, Rosie the scumbag!

  221. “You always pass failure on your way to success. “
    ~ Mickey Rooney

    “Life is to be lived, not controlled, and humanity is won by continuing to play in face of certain defeat.”
    ~ Ralph Ellison

    “Our business in life is not to succeed, but to continue to fail in good spirits. ”
    ~Robert Louis Stevenson

    ” Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat. It is a temporary detour, not a dead end. Failure is something we can avoid only by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing.”
    ~ Denis Waitley

    “For once you have fallen low. Let us see in the future how high you can rise.”
    ~ Sherlock Holmes

    My advice to Pakatan Rakyat in Perak is…
    Accept this loss    .
    I am your staunch supporter – Let it be & let go. No use to challenge in any court of law. You know very well that the Perakian hearts are with you. YB Nizar, you have only to wait another 3 more years for the next GE, or if you are lucky, some BN frogs may hop over to PR over the next few months and you can form the govt again.

    Remember – You have to lose a battle in order to win the war!!!

  222. We will have to wait for the court to drop judgement on this. Stay tune and keep watching…Onlooker Politics

    What can i say – too optimistic to rely on the court. I view the court actions presently underway as a political process (keeping the issue alive, create attention and buying time), never a legal one.

    There is no need for me to stay tune and keep watching. I already know the outcome.

  223. The real casualty of this whole episode is the respect of the people for the Sultan of Perak. The UMNO beast and scumbag Najib are expected to behave in the way they have and they will be call to account come the next election. Remember President Chen of Taiwan. The same fate awaits Najib. Judging from the razor thin majority and the hatred UMNO has stirred up in the State against them, how long do they think they can actually last. The longest I give them is the next election. Now even if a BN MP in Perak so much as catches a cold alarm bell will sound because the Goons know they can never win any by election anymore . If anyone of them drop dead the people will celebrate because the power will revert back to PKR.

    The respect of the people the Sultan since has dropped several notches for his association with and acceptance of what is plainly unjust and not the wishes of his subjects. His denial of the request to dissolve the State Assembly is ill advised and serve nothing more than to destabilise the State.

    The current loss of PKR in Perak is nothing but a temporary setback because they is nothing to prevent them from coming back in full force the next round. I am sure Nizar will be able to continue his good work in good time when the table turns against the BN goons and in good time.

  224. A decision on PR’s part based on considerations relating to interpretation of law/constitution (“Legal Considerations”) is a thing apart – and separate – from a decision on PR’s part based on basket of political considerations of what may serve its best interest (“Political Considerations”). Legal Considerations are but a part only of and not sum total of the Political Considerations. This being the case, merits in respect of Legal Considerations (on balance) are not equal to merits in respect of Political Considerations (on balance).

    One’s case (as in PR/Nizar’s legal challenge) may have legal merits but there are two caveats: firstly, even if there are legal merits it does mean the refree (court) may agree to vindicate one’s position. For that depends on the independence of the particular judge/court from executive interference. Secondly even if one takes the case to court – and the court will be fair and independent to vindicate one’s Cause on basis of law alone – courts’ calenders are conjested and there’s no telling that its final determination (based on series of appeals and counter appeals) may not take more than 10 years to resolve, which will be way after the next General Election.

    So the practical factor to weigh is whether there is a point to pursue the case when the earlier event of next General Election may prove a better – and earlier – vindication of one’s Cause. If that is correct, then one may want to concentrate on the General Election and maximise the chances of winning.

  226. What do you guys expect??

    When you have a system where you are made to ‘prostrate’ yourself before he who sits on life’s throne and beg for forgiveness (beribu-ribu ampun) not knowing what you have done wrong and what is it that you’re asking forgiveness for, this is what happens.

  227. Continuing :

    This is where the problem arises. One may have merits in one’s case based solely on Legal Considerations but to take it up may detract/subtract one’s chances of galvanising support from Malay section of the electorate if the opposing side BN could successfully manipulate one’s taking up the issue in court as an act of defiance and disrepect or even treason in relation to the institution of Monarchy that has made the decision challenged in court.

    So if PR weighs the benefit of pursuing the case based on merits of Legal Considerations as against the costs of (i) the risk that the case, though having merits in law may still be lost if the particular court/judge happens to be not independent and (ii) the risks of alienation of a section of Malay Electorate that becomes unhappy at what they perceive as an act of defiance and disrepect or even treason in relation to the institution of Monarchy when a case is instituted against a Monarch or His decision that (iii) will have adverse repercussions on one’s popularity in the next General Election, that by the way may well occur way earlier than the final outcome of the case pursued, on which side would the cost versus benefit scale tilt? Everyone of you could make your own decision on this. These wider considerations are the Political Considerations. They are different from Legal Considerations.

    Based on legal Considerations alone one may decide, fight, and based on Political Considerations one may well decide otherwise, withdraw to fight in another battle to win the long term war.

    There is no flip flop in evaluating Political Considerations and Legal Considerations separately with each pointing a diametrically opposite conclusions. Perhaps an examination of these issues was “made with sangfroid” in OrangRojak’s words, but for a “sanguine” mind like Godfather’s whose “stocks rise and fall with every nod and shake” he could not see such separation of issue and hence make premature accusations of “flip flop”.

    Or assume that an explanation of these could be reduced to a few sentences. However if longer and more elaborate postings cannot make him see the difference in issues, how could a few short sentences do better?

  228. Actually…please help me here, I thought DAP won more seats(in perak)in GE08…however we gave way to PKR to form PR. Yes?

    Sorry la..a bit duh..ok so bare with me.

    YB…why did you let this happen? I voted for change but we got kicked out by the butt by our sultan la. Then we have this Hee woman, who pulled this stunt and you gonna let her off just like that? Dont go to the other two as they are not DAP..they are PKR.

    My vote will always be for DAP..make no mistake…I am just tired of BN’s tactics and Anwars nonsense. Enuf..enuf…I think many rakyat just want fairness not this nonsense.

  229. If the Cause is principled government Jeffrey, isn’t it best served by ‘serving notice’ (don’t laugh, IANAL*) on unprincipled government? There are very few vehicles for criticism of the apparatus of state in Malaysia. If the legal option is open, I think it should be used.

    *IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer, frequently seen on another of my favourite websites. I thought I better say so, just in case people thought it was a confession of some sort.

  230. i think pakatan should start launch count down to day of NEXT GE.
    lets the hot soup keep boiling.
    all BN. really good acting. infront of tv news. they should award best actor and actress
    but sometimes i will laffing. especialy i saw rafidah comment said after pakatan took over perak. there is not improvement and infra development.
    BN very good in infra development, so they can built toll here and there !

  231. If the same were to happen in the United States, the issue would be brought to the State Supreme Court within days and a decision made within the hour!

    We don’t even have a state supreme court. In fact we don’t even have state police. What kind of federation is this?? Instead we have mostly hereditary rulers ‘ruling’ the states who depend for their salaries on the goodwill of politicians, and who take turns to become King!

    It is not working!!

  232. This is where the problem arises. One may have merits in one’s case based solely on Legal Considerations but to take it up may detract/subtract one’s chances of galvanising support from Malay section of the electorate if the opposing side BN could successfully manipulate one’s taking up the issue in court as an act of defiance and disrepect or even treason in relation to the institution of Monarchy that has made the decision challenged in court.

    So if PR weighs the benefit of pursuing the case based on merits of Legal Considerations as against the costs of (i) the risk that the case, though having merits in law may still be lost if the particular court/judge happens to be not independent and (ii) the risks of alienation of a section of Malay Electorate that becomes unhappy at what they perceive as an act of defiance and disrepect or even treason in relation to the institution of Monarchy when a case is instituted against a Monarch or His decision that (iii) will have adverse repercussions on one’s popularity in the next General Election, that by the way may well occur way earlier than the final outcome of the case pursued, on which side would the cost versus benefit scale tilt? Everyone of you could make your own decision on this. These wider considerations are the Political Considerations. They are different from Legal Considerations.

  233. Paralyze the whole of Perak administration,financial institute,manufacturing,transportation system,trading activities,school activities by all perakian by absent one working day will give the sultan and new B-END state goverment a clear signal. If everyone agree, i will stop my son and daughter going to school for one day or even a week if needed.

  234. OrangRojak Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 00: 01.59

    *IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer, frequently seen on another of my favourite websites. I thought I better say so, just in case people thought it was a confession of some sort.”

    It is not a crime to have had colonoscopy done on you. Not in Malaysia.

  235. Undergrad..it has never been working,its always been their rule or no rule. Thats the way they (BN) wants mah….

    As long as the have majoriti (lol) in numbers its ok. They dont have majoriti by way of actual rakyat count…what we want…so they just kawtow la. They started with Perak, next they will do to selangor and will try in penang also….

  236. Why there is no report of casualties from the violence by police force and FRU against the demostrators at Kuala Kangsar by mass media?

    Heard rumors that there were at least 5 people injured in the clamp down.

    The demostration was peaceful, excessive force was used against the peaceful demostrators!

  237. Based on legal Considerations alone one may decide, fight, whilst based on Political Considerations one may well decide otherwise, ie.withdraw to fight in another battle to win the long term war.

    There is neither flip flop nor inconsistency in evaluating Political Considerations and Legal Considerations separately with each pointing a diametrically opposite conclusions.

    Perhaps an examination of these issues was “made with sangfroid” in OrangRojak’s words, but for a “sanguine” mind like Godfather’s whose “stocks rise and fall with every nod and shake” he could not see such separation of issue and hence make premature accusations of “flip flop”.

    Or assume that an explanation of these could be reduced to a few sentences.

    However if longer and more elaborate postings cannot make him see the difference in issues, how could a few short sentences do better?

  240. How dare did Nizar reject the order of the Sultan? He think he is greater than the Sultan of the Perak State? He is just so naive and the whole PR is still dreaming and unwilling to accept the fact that BN is now controlling the State Government of Perak. The Sultan of Perak and Dato’ Abdullah Badawi have done the right thing to call on the resignation of Nizar at the appropriate time. PR has lost the controlling state so their representative can no longer be the MB. Nizar is no longer the MB and this is the fact. Please accept it. We do not wish to use force if it can be avoided. The 4 state assemblymen has decided what is the best for the people in Perak and everyone has to respect their decision. Afterall, PR government has proved nothing to the people after they came into power for almost a year. It is time to change and more opposition states should follow what happened in Perak. Let’s see.

  243. “… risks of alienation of a section of Malay electorate that becomes unhappy at what they perceive as an act of defiance and disrepect or even treason in relation to the institution of Monarchy..” Jeffrey

    Had you made this statement some 50 years ago, I would have given you the thumbs up. Today the Malay electorate is more politically matured than that and is able to separate the grain from the chaff.

    Also aren’t forgetting that a large number of Malays are together with the non-Malays on the issue??

    Are you not being a little condescending of the Malays?

  244. I think the Chinese wisdom of determining the character of a person by its physical facial features has some basis, albeit no scientific one.

    Scientifically genotype of a person will determine the observable physical traits and appearance of an individual in its later year of development. This is more of the genetic make-up of the individual. It does not tell the inner nature and the intangible characteristics of an individual. However the Chinese has a way to guage this intangible chanracters. As the Chinese saying goes: facial feature originates from the heart.

    I think DAP should consider using fortune teller to scan the likelihood of betrayal of its state representatives through his or her facial features.

    I was twice betrayed by women of similar facial feature as Hee. Once during university days and once during adulthood.

  246. YB. I think this BN coup in Perak has to do with the struggle between Najib and Pak Lah fought under the surface. Pak Lah lost. He has to go as agreed. I dont think Pak Lah can tell Najib what to do now.

    I think it is better for DAP to spent its resources and energy to organise for the next election. This ground swell of anger directed at BN will help push DAP and its pakatan to victory.

  247. The worst yet to come.Situation in Perak is just a sample.More to come after March.How are we going to stop it? Some miracle by hook or crook must happen in order to protect the nation from evil.

  248. lhsilhv…sorry for your inexperience in how to determine a bad and good person.I’m laughing at you for choosing a person identical like Hee lah. Be more carefull in the near future..and good luck to you.

  249. “Are you not being a little condescending of the Malays?” – Undergrad2 posting February 7th, 2009 at 00: 29.31 in respect of “…risks of alienation”

    No I don’t think so.

    According to The MalaysianInsider report Feb 6 — “PAS will not recognise the new Perak state government helmed by the Barisan Nasional (BN), said Pas spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat.”

    Off the cuff, I like his idea better. It demonstrates a point and yet does not hazard the risk of alienating….due to twisting by the other camp on sentiments.

    Now supposing not just PAS but PKR, DAP and all remaining PKR states like Penang, Selangor, Kelantan and Kedah do not recognise the new Perak state government helmed by BN and boycott having dealings with it what happens?

    I am not saying that all factors considered it is the best move – there may be other problems but at least it would not be open to twisting and manipulation that Karpal – and PR by extension – is advocating disrespect and defiance of Monarchy institution by instituting legal action.

    The merits of the case in law (Legal Considerations) may be what Karpal may be solely thinking about – without disrespect but this can be twisted and to this extent from Political Considerations point of view, Nik Aziz’s approach may be preferred to Karpal’s!

    By the way I like the diplomacy by which Nik Aziz said that “he did not want to comment on the move by former Perak Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin who planned to file a suit against the Sultan of Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah” and his wisdom in inserting the usual caveat: he respected the decision of Sultan Azlan Shah not to dissolve the Perak State Legislative Assembly and asking Mohammad Nizar to resign as the Perak Menteri!

    See what I mean – not like Godfather’s naive ‘got case then fight’ attitude that could get PR into even more problems (as usual)!

  250. lhslhv Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 00: 32.07

    \I think DAP should consider using fortune teller …. facial features. I was twice betrayed by women of similar facial feature as Hee. Once during university days and once during adulthood\

    I would like to believe visiting my neighborhood’s numerous fortune tellers over the years has made me into an expert of sorts. Do you think I could make millions working for DAP in Malaysia?

    Pray tell us how you were betrayed by these women during your university days as a minor and then later as an adult.

  251. I was twice betrayed by women of similar facial feature as Hee
    Have you considered someone a little younger? I know that ‘some of the best tunes are played on old instruments’, but still… while you were at Uni?
    Betrayal hurts – see all the angry comments above. You’ll get over it, as will PR – trust repaid is worth ten times more than trust betrayed.

  252. Next election???????Don’t be too confident.By then, many things will be changed and more new laws will be in place in order to favour them. Another M.Kutty’s era or maybe worst than that in progress.God bless us.Better take my EPF and fly to other country.

  253. “Also aren’t you forgetting that a large number of Malays are together with the non-Malays on the issue??” – Undergrad2

    Yes – on issue of removal of Nizar by BN via defection numbers.

    Though it is connected to Ruler’s decision, however will it be the same that a large number of same Malays are equally together with the non-Malays on the issue of instituting legal suit against the Sultan?

    I am not sure on that – and I don’t think Nik Aziz is either that explains his alternative less sensitive approach/suggestion, guarded “no comment” on Karpal’s proposal and the caveat.

    OrangRojak, no need the declaration of *IANAL . Some people also think IAAL just because I mutter some comments related to law basedv on readings and what to me is common sense but I dare not declare IANAL lest some bona fide IAAL will suggest colonoscopy done on me and Godfather who has asked me before not to lie down on his account but just bend over may propose that he does it! :)

  254. “The merits of the case in law … may be what Karpal may be solely thinking about … but this can be twisted …” Jeffrey

    Exploiting something for political gains is the oldest game in the book when it comes to politics. But that should not deter us and those who believe in the rule of law.

    If the Sultan has erred in law in the use of his discretion or worse, in fact he was never given the opportunity to use his discretion, misled or misguided or even morally blackmailed, then by bringing the matter to the country’s courts history would see the people as the saviour of the system of constitutional monarchy in this country.

  255. Is indeed a sad one.

    I am strongly agree to have election in Perak at this point of time.

    I’m hoping that the next election PR will not only capture back Perak state but also form the next government.

    I believe… M’sia is still holding on to the “change” factor.

    Love ya all the hardwork.

  257. YB Lim expects the impossible thing. If Abdullah was not supportive of this backdoor entry, Najib wouldn’t have proceeded. Both are culprits and equally guilty.
    If there is one person who talks about right things it is KU LI alone. But he is a lone ranger in Umno.

  259. Better take my EPF and fly to other country.
    So that’s what my wife did… no wonder she gives me those angry looks all the time since we moved here!

    Undergrad2, while we may ‘believe in the Rule of Law’, I have only to look outside my front door to see that the Rule of Law is probably at the North Pole with Santa. There are precious few individuals in Malaysia who have lived their entire lives by the Rule of Law. “Don’t cause trouble la” is the Law in Malaysia. Jeffrey is merely cautioning against anything “too Jewish”, as Mahathir likes to refer to modernity.

    As for tonto, you’re using it in the Spanish sense, I take it? I think you mean tontos.

  261. I cannot afford to be betrayed the third time. I will be goner.

    One leg of mine is in the coffin already!

    There will always be traitors amongst us. I wish it would not happen in DAP and PKR again.

    I have not heard of traitor from PAS!

  265. I have not heard of traitor from PAS!
    Totally incompatible ideals.
    PAS = Islamic State
    UMNO = Lots of money for us
    DAP = Money for everyone, but not much
    MCA = Money for happy and harmonious appearance, why not?
    MIC = You said there would be money
    PKR = I want my money back
    Gerakan = C’mon, at least my busfare

    I apologise if I’ve missed any party off the list, I’m new to Malaysian politics.

  266. Article 16 (6) of the Perak state constitution reads:

    “If the MB ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly, then, unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”
    Article 16 (7) reads:

    “Subject to Clause (6) a member of the Executive Council other than the MB shall hold office at His Royal Highness’ pleasure, but any member of the Council may at any time resign his office.”
    The two sections, 16 (6) and 16 (7) together provides for the removal of the Mentri Besar when he ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the LA. They provide for two ways for the MB to vacate his post. The MB can resign on his own accord. If the MB does not resign on his own accord His Highness will dissolve the Legislative Assembly. There is no provision elsewhere for the removal of the MB when he ceases to be eligible to continue as MB.

    So the two paragraphs provide the Highness and the MB each an initiative to effect the departure of the MB once he ceases to command the support. If the MB resigns, he creates the vacancy. If the MB does not resign, the person who is authorized to act under the constitution will dissolve the Legislative Assembly.

    Article 16 (7) prevents the MB from being dismissed from the post beyond the two approach listed above. So the Highness is bound to have the Mentri Besar removed by dissolving the Legislative Assembly. In issuing his order for the Mentri Besar to resign The Highness was utilizing his authority beyond those provided in the constitution. In other words, the constitution did not authorise His Highness to act as he did.

    The Sultan has taken two consecutive actions namely, the removal of the incumbent MB and the appointment of his replacement, instead of only one action which is the removal of the incumbent MB through the dissolution of the Legislative Assembly. He has therefore acted outside the specific provision in the state constitution when the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the LA.

    Article 16 (7) was specific that vacancy of Mentri Besar cannot be created, and the vacancy can only arise on the initiative of the incumbent Mentri Besar. So the creation of the vacancy by the Sultan advising the incumbent to resign is not binding under the constitution. The appointment of a new Mentri Besar when the vacancy does not exist is illegal.

  267. In an assembly of human reps and frogs where the status of frogs are in the process of being determined by a kangaroo court, it would have been the better part of wisdomn for the DYMM Sultan to allow the people of Perak to determine that only human beings should inhabit the august House. That would have given the Assembly and the Sultan the dignity that befits them.

    Now we will have to live with the sliminess of the House, the presence of frogs and the disaapointment of Perakians who are obviously tired and fed-up with such sickening wayang kulit.

    So, was the Sultan wise in not dissolving the Assembly? As for UMNO, NAjib and Zahid Hamidi – they have broken into a smile too soon. The people do not forget easily when they are raped. So, it’s better for UMNO to wipe off that smirk from their faces as they will have to face the wrath of the people in the next GE.

  268. The Sultan cannot be assumed to have taken politics into consideration when he acted according to the provision of the state constitution as he saw fit. To him it was a legal issue. As former Lord President, and a judge before that, he accepts that decision of a judge is subject to appeal. So, submitting the case to the court should only be based on merits, legally. It should be seen as a purely legal issue. Don’t forget the country is governed under the rule of law. It has to be seen to be so.

  271. In Awani news,that beggar semivel said the he will beg…….PM to have one Indian to represent Indian in Perak.Anybody ask him to do this silly job?However this will be the answer:

    Najis: Well,I already give you an Indian MB….whatelse you need….be happy Indians with the biscuits……

  272. Frankly speaking,I’m from Kedah and I voted for PAS but I do not feel any difference.As usual,I’m still paying water bill,electric bill,Income tax,”cukai pintu & tanah” and other expenses.The only satisfaction I have is that I take revenge on BN for the H5 and Indian community.Most of us, live in this country without a single help from anyone.We struggle and survive.PR should come up with a proper plan on how they want to be different from BN in managing PR states.Prove that you’re a good leader for all the race at state level first before going to Federal.

  273. Royal family are human beings too. They need to source for income for their own livings. Sometime they might have to achieve such targets through all sorts of ways and means. In doing so and as a human being, they might loose some of their dignities or commit some mistakes as a royal subject. Hence to all rakyat of Malaysia and representatives of PR, please do not place high hope on Sultans or Agung to help us to resolve our present political crisis.

    A piece of advice to PR, please work smart and fast, and please do not reveal your strategies as what you have been stupidly and frequently committing in the past ten months. To the MB and CM of other PR’s states with the exception of Kelantan, please dissolve the state assembly immediately once you have sensed that there is a slightest implication of jump-ship phenomena. The last thing which BN wants to encounter is the dissolution of state assembly in Penang, Selangor or Kedah because the result of a snap election would definitely reflect their unpopularity in the state and as well as nationwide at this time.

    To BN, it is still not too late for you to regain the confidences of rakyat. As long the following steps are taken:-
    1. To reform the present judiciary system;
    2. To revamp the PDRM system;
    3. To abolish the ISA;
    4. To form an anti-corruption agency which is equally effective as Hong Kong’s ICAC;
    5. To abolish the AP system;
    6. To appoint government servant on mediocrity basis;
    7. To set up more infrastructures, medical centres and universities,
    I am pretty sure that you will regain the support of rakyat and the progress of our country in all aspects will be steered towards an auto-correction mode.

    It is fair to say that corruption exists everywhere in the whole world. However the difference between a developed/advanced country and its contrary is that the former prosecutes those who have committed a corruption act while the latter keeps an eye closed. In China, there was an incidence whereby a deputy minister was sentenced to death after he was judged guilty on corruption charge. That is why although their politicians might be corrupted to core yet their country is progressing at a tremendous pace. In Malaysia, no one can argue that the culprit would say, “Hahaha, I am doing it (corruption), what can you do against me!?”. Amazing, isn’t it? So by hook or by crook, we definitely need a change before reaching a situation similar to Zimbabwe.

    Zimbabwe was once a model country for the rest of African countries to pursue. But after the British left and under the administration of Robert Mugabe, now 5.4 millions citizens survive on donation aid. 1.3 millions have contracted HIV virus and 1 million have fled the country. The environmental conditions there are rated as one of the worst in Africa. So BN please listen to rakyat call, do not turn this wonderful country into hell. The chances of we becoming another Zimbabwe is as good as 100% if we do not resolve our problems and keep the present trend going as it is at this juncture. Please……….

  274. Truely, the mind set of BN is loud and clear. Hence pleadings to reasons and fairplays will come to nought in politics. Take whatever legal steps available but you would never change the mind-set!
    As their great Super-Ego had said ” orang Malaysia mudah lupa!’ and this is applied to ALL, right from the top of the pedestal! History is meant to be distrorted to avoid truth ,not a lesson to learn from. History is mis-taught for the sake of cheap propaganda!
    Truth has never been faced directly.
    The difference is so great: our neighbour has the prescribed yardstick, even the wife of the PM has to go when she had failed to deliver; notwithstanding her past reputation!
    Here, a bloke who screwed up $30 billion was picked to continue to guide the finance of the country!
    So where can we be heading? Where? Zimbabwe was the so-called ‘ food basket ‘ of Africa before MUGABE, the best African friend we have and sure enough we would be going HIS WAY!

  276. N….. will be in Perak today to celebrate Chinese New Year in one of the Chinese school.”Mesra Bersama Rakyat “.Hope he’s not the 4th one to get the special prize after the sweden incident.Perakians ready……….1,2,3…………Wow!more than 100 pairs at one time………….

  277. Shakarul said:
    —————
    5. To abolish the AP system;
    6. To appoint government servant on mediocrity basis;
    —————

    I think it is better to abolish the NEP or revamp it to focus on the poor and needy irregardless of race, and to appoint government servant based on meritocracy. Also you need to mention a major revamp on education system and policies!

    But we all know UMNO and BN are not capable of doing all these as there is too much personal interest and greed at stake.

  279. Oh C’mon – don’t be a hypocrite. If Sep 16 happened, PR would have exactly done the same thing – and ‘llegal’ power grab through a defection.

    While I disagree with the Sultan and I don’t like it that BN is back, I think in a way he may have done the wise thing. His action in allowing a change in govt this way is illustrating in a 1/14th scale way what would have happened if Sep 16 did happen.

    All’s fair in love, war and politics. So just take this as a lesson and go into damage control mode. A lot of your voters are dissapointed enough already. Better work on convincing them in the next GE that they will continue to vote for you given that PR now is seen as not really having the cunningness to even keep its own wins!

  280. “That could explain your sometimes intellectual constipation” – Undergrad2 at February 7th, 2009 at 01: 12.35 – Yes, especially when, occasionally one suffers from having to sit on and engage with ossified thoughts as wide and deep as a toilet bowl pan!

    To Loh, your interpretation stated in posting February 7th, 2009 at 05: 41.16 accords with my thinking on Article 16 (6) of the Perak in alignment with that of KennyGan in his posting February 6th, 2009 at 21: 33.14 above.

    There are only two options in Article 16 (6), and the is no third one that confers by implication to the Monarch the discretion to disregard the MB’s advice to dissolve the assembly and ask him to resign instead to make way for a new appointment to facilitate a direct transfer of power to the opposite party without fresh mandate via elections.

    In a Constitutional Monarchy (as distinct from an absolute Monarchy) within a wider system of parliamentary representative government, the question of mandate of people from election is an all important issue based on “sovereignty of the people” rather than “sovereignty of Monarch” – and numbers, in terms of whether one has majority of assemblymen, are used to measure against yardstick of mandate of people only up to the extent that numbers do not become an end in themselves to subvert and contradict the very same mandate of people they are supposed to measure.

    Taking this view, the interpretation above ought to be correct as a matter of law.

    Anwar/PR/Nizar has thought the better and now changed course to file a suit against the “new” MB Zamri Abdul Kadir instead of the Ruler. It is uncertain whether Zamri is correct party to proceed against based on law but it is certainly less sensitive and more symbolic course of action on PR’s part to provide the general backdrop/setting for whatever acts of non recognition that PR may from now initiate to de-legitimise the BN dominated Perak Govt. seized from a coup from political defections.

    PR must realise that these measures of protest by it would also effectively put a brake on whatever plans Anwar/PKR may from now on have to poach BN defections (whether in Penisular or East Malaysia) to topple the BN Federal Govt earlier than next election since what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

  281. Majority of Malaysian people, Perak in particulars wake this morning with a sense of loss, disappointment, frustration, anger and disillusion on what has happen in PERAK.

    Majority of the nettizen are angry NOW.

    It is my believe that the BN state government in Perak will not last long until next GE.

    The positive development by this turn of event is off course it has further consolidate the PR supports from the people.

    A sword always has two side. If we look at the positive side, BN may have play a very dangerous game by forming the Perak state Government by this dirty tactics. The people has already has a perception of BN being corrupt beyond redemption, which in reality are true. The tactic of admitted two tainted frogs and the other one seem to be jump over under duress, has further enhanced this perception that BN will use all their resources to grab power. This perception will be killer as it growth. So the positive side is good for PR in the next GE, the supports will tremendous, and will come with stronger supports from all people who really want changes, who want a fairer and less corrupt government.

    BN is really silly and it is great mistake for them at this point of time to grab power and with the silly thinking that this will enhanced their losing influence. It might just result in the opposite.

    while the decision of the RH of Sultan can never be disputed and all HIS subjects will never wish to dispute and show disrespect. Deep inside most of the majority are disappointed in deed. This will turn into blaming the BN and the forces will be against BN and their resolve to fight BN will further enhanced.

    So this will be bad for BN and good for PR. All this will come true when next GE come along.

    Meanwhile the people also has further enhance their believe that MCA and Gerakan are irrelevant in Perak and so in other states to come.

  282. “I suggest that Nizar should simply return the “Dato’ Seri” title to the Sultan. Anyone other than Jeffrey disagree ?” (Godfather)

    Godfather,

    The post of “Sultan” is a life post. If Nizar gets a chance to come back to the state power again, he will still need to see the Sultan for signatures in many occasion. I don’t think it is wise for him to displease the Sultan even it is only for one time. I disagree!

  283. If DAP knew there was a potential constitutional crises, why did they let Nizar see the Sultan on his own without Karpal Singh or a constitutional expert with him? Did Nizar made a good constitutional argument? I seriously doubt so. PR Perak govt is proving not to be stepping up on crucial moments…

  284. mangodurian said: His action in allowing a change in govt this way is illustrating in a 1/14th scale way what would have happened if Sep 16 did happen.

    I don’t think that was the sultan’s intention. It is simply because he is a BN man, sad to say.

  285. Allan Tham said: It is my believe that the BN state government in Perak will not last long until next GE.

    I share the same believe. The “people power” of Changkat Jering, Behrang and Jelapang cannot be underestimated. The sentiment is really strong on the ground to boot out the three betrayers by hook or by crook.

  286. PR should immediately seek for a ban on political defection through parliamentary legislation, as the party does not have the financial resources and means to compete with BN in the defection game and will always be the VICTIM of political defection.

    Defectors are not stupid people. They know their political career will end once they cross over to the party which adopts them. As a result, they are likely to demand high compensation in a form of material reward (rather than top jobs which only last them a few years). I bet the material compensation they ask for is often beyond PR’s financial capability. Hence a level-playing field does not exist for PR to compete with BN in the defection game.

    Moreover, BN, being in control of the Federal Government, has many “convenient” means of raising funds to meet the defector’s compensation demand. For example, if BN approves 20% toll hike on the North South Highway, that will be more than enough to meet the defection expenses (say, toll collection company takes 10% of the hike and BN takes the other 10%, i.e. equal share of benefit).

    PR must really give some thought to banning the defection culture before BN spreads it to other PR led states.

  287. Onlooker Politics said: I don’t think it is wise for him to displease the Sultan even it is only for one time.

    While that may the case, a clear message needs to be sent to the sultan that he plays a ceremonial role to serve the people, not the people serve him. We are not living in feudal times anymore. This is the first time in Malysian history where the takeover of state government caused so much public unrest requiring FRU and tear gas, and I don’t think this is the end of it. It has become international news and is a major embarassment to the sultan. All because the sultan is not aligned to the people’s wishes.

  288. The ppeople of Perak wake up to the reality that they had really been sold out by the 3 kataks. I think it would be wise for PKR and DAP to offer their apologies to the rakyat of Perak for their role in this mess especially since the 3 kataks were from their house.

    The people of Perak had given them their mandate through PKR and DAP but this was misused and so it would be of great honour that some sort of apologies should be forthcoming to show how humble and great PKR and DAP are….since the kataks came from their house n family….

    We shall live to fight another battle but meantime, lets put all our resources into the long drawn legal battles ataht we are to fight. However lets not place so much hope on the courts as we know who are there and how the outcome may be as even a so called great leader that rakyat look upon to can play them out even after saying superflous words of advices for the people.

  289. yhsiew said: PR should immediately seek for a ban on political defection through parliamentary legislation, as the party does not have the financial resources and means to compete with BN in the defection game and will always be the VICTIM of political defection.

    That is true but UMNO will probably delay any legislation because it is working in their favor now. UMNO set a precendent many years ago in Sabah when PBS assemblymen were bribed to defect enmass to BN. The defection culture was started by Mahathir and that is why in his recent comments on Perak he still says that it is acceptable for assemblymen to defect. Obviously Anwar is not as good as him in the defection game.

  291. yhsiew Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 09: 21.37
    PR should immediately seek for a ban on political defection through parliamentary legislation, as the party does not have the financial resources and means to compete with BN in the defection game and will always be the VICTIM of political defection.

    ====================

    Najib looked sooo happy at his coup that I seriously doubt that will happen. In fact, from now on, a huge chunk of our budget will go under “miscellaneous” a.ka.a “tabung katak”. At RM5 million each, that’s a huge chunk.

  292. ///Mohd Ali Rustam, contender of Deputy President of UMNO said that Nazir should accept the outcome in Perak as one based on the democratic process and respect for Sultan Azlan Shah’s position.

    Najib said should there be any disputes on the appointment [of MB from BN], the remedy is to go to court. He said “it does not matter what we feel [about fresh election in Perak] because it is the sultan’s prerogative to decide under the Federal (state?) Constitution./// — The Star

    Najib may soon be the PM and it would be his duty to uphold the Federal Constitution. As the UMNO Chief of UMNO for Perak and the state government he would also be responsible to uphold the state constitution. The persons who are responsible to uphold the constitution need to understand what the constitution provides, pertaining to the relevant issues, even though they are not expected to be able to argue cases in court. The state constitution provides for specific actions in the event that the Mentri Besar ceases to enjoy the majority of the votes of the State Legislative Assembly. For ease of reference, the two relevant sections are reproduced here under:

    Quote:
    Article 16 (6) of the Perak state constitution reads: “If the MB ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly, then, unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”

    Article 16 (7) reads: “Subject to Clause (6) a member of the Executive Council other than the MB shall hold office at His Royal Highness’ pleasure, but any member of the Council may at any time resign his office.”
    Unquote
    In the event that the Mentri Besar ceases to enjoy majority support in the Legislative Assembly, however determined, he can be removed in three ways. He can resign, he can be dismissed, and his post as the Mentri Besar can be removed by having the Legislative Assembly dissolved. Since it was specifically mentioned in Article 16(7) that the Mentri Besar was not subject to hold office at His Royal Highness’ pleasure, the MB cannot be dismissed, and he need not follow the advice of the Sultan to resign. So, there are two alternatives to removing the Mentri Besar in that event; either the Mentri Besar resigns, or the State Assembly was dissolved when the letter of resignation was not forthcoming, and the Highness has been requested to dissolve the LA.

    The Mentri Besar announced publicly on Thursday 5th February 2009 that he had not resigned and that the Highness would announce his decision soon. It should be clear to Najib that the only constitutional course of action for the Sultan was to announce the dissolution of the Perak State Assembly. Yet, Najib was competing for time to announce that the BN had acquired the required number of kataks so that a majority of seats in the LA would be occupied by BN. That misled the Royal Highness into taking into consideration matter beyond what had been provided by the state constitution. The Sultan subsequently appointed a second Mentri Besar for Perak, and declared that the Mentri Besar was ordered to resign. The actions were ultra vires to Article 16 of the Perak state constitution.

    To ensure that decision made ultra vires of the state constitution is fait accompli, UMNO leaders threatened Pakatan government to accept the action as thought the Sultan has the right to take action ultra vires of the constitution, and that those actions cannot be challenged. That was why Mohd Ali suggested that Nazir should respect the Sultan’s decision. He was clear that he had no ground to ask Nazir to respect the constitution.

    Having contributed to the Sultan making the decision he hoped for, Najib now places the Sultan in a position for legal challenge. He attributed full responsibility to the Sultan, after having involved his highness in politics..

    The education Minister, Kerismuddin said that other Pakatan government will also be taken over soon. He too does not respect state constitution, and he believes that UMNO can involve the royal houses to do their bidding, just like what happened in Perak.

    Are the leaders in UMNO aware of the basic tenets of rule of law?

  293. Negarawan. Yes I share the same view. They will not last. Money politics works only in umno and not outside umno. And actually practising it outside umno is as good as courting disaster. The same corrupt ways that some in umno are begining to oppose and which voters in general (save for blind umno supporters) despise and reject ought to be stopped. Not only did najib not stop, he actively pursued it and extended its use beyond umno. He is completely out of syn with time and with the people. He may have bought perak for now but he has definately lost the nation and her people forever.

    And dont forget. What he has acquired with people’s money is only a thin majority and that is shaky. One or two by-elections will stretch it thinner still. Hee will in due course back out of bn (my guess). After 20 years of DAP she is certainly ill-prepared for the umno and bn ways. She will not adapt there. But it could be hard for her to re-join DAP though. And for the other two frogs, oh Pakatan can afford to lose them. They are useless and weak and unprincipled. They are a liability. Its good that they have jumped. I hope that they join umno and burden them further.

  294. ”The Star ” wasting my money lah, publising a column accusing Selangor MB using state fund on maintaining his personal car..is it a big deal? compare with those ex-Selangor MB stealing the tax payer money.

  295. Star reported that Hee’s home town folks slam her action.

    Well regardless what her problem with DAP she should not betray the people trust. Her power come from Jelapang People under the DAP tickets and PR manifesto and there fore she should resign if she is not happy with DAP NOW. She should not remain as independent and give support to BN.

    It is for her own good to resign NOW

  296. Ku Li understands the law better than the former lord president

    Saturday February 7, 2009
    Ku Li: Why Nizar is still the MB

    PETALING JAYA: Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin is still the Perak Mentri Besar until he resigns of his own accord, or is removed by a vote of no-confidence in a formal sitting of the State Assembly, said Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah.

    “Only the answer of the assembly counts, regardless how many sworn statements, defections, press conferences and declarations, or what forms of advertisement, display, inducement or force you bring to bear on the question,” he said in a statement yesterday.

    “The Constitution makes no provision for his removal by any other means, including by petitions or instructions from any other authority,” he added.

    He also said that a legitimate constitutional government draws all its authority from the consent of the people and only from that consent. The people consent because it is their government formed according to their constitution, whose leader is chosen through free and fair elections.

    “To formally test the mandate of the current government, the question must either be put to the people through state elections, or to assemblymen through a formal vote in the Dewan,” said Tengku Razaleigh.

    He said to remove and install governments in any other way was to violate the Constitution, erode the rule of law and run the risk of forming an illegal government.

  297. Dear YB,
    I think the DAP should hold an inquiry as to why Hee Yit Foong defected to the BN. Is it because of the 2 cousins, Datuk Ngeh Koo Ham and Nga Kor Ming?
    Before the last election Fong Po Kuan also had some problems with the 2 cousins.
    Probably being ladies they are helpless against the gang of DAP 2 cousins.
    Please look into this before the rot spreads.

  298. What for having a Constitution if the Sultan can change the procedure just like that?

    It seems like the Sultan takes only “TAKES 20 MINUTES” (5 minutes INTERVIEW for each of the 4 frogs) to decide who should run the state government! AND the Sultan also FORGOT THAT the same 4 frogs have promised HIM that they will support the PR Government in March’08!

    The only conclusion I can think of is that the Sultan must have been influenced by Najis because he will be the PM NEXT MONTH! and the huge benefit that Perak will get!

    Its a MATERIALISTIC WORLD we are living in!

    Constitution! is just a piece of paper good only for Law student to argue with in Univercity! Outside school lets face it, it is DEAD!

  300. On the 7th February, the STAR states” Najib assures non-Malays in Perak ,they will not be neglected”.
    It looks like the non-Malays have been neglected in Perak?
    Otherwise why would Najib give that assurance?

  301. lbl,do not blame the two cousins,that traitor must look at herself in the mirror first.Despite her very low qualification and other limitations including her physical one(do not be misunderstood as I am not slighting her on her physical handicap),she was appointed as the deputy speaker of the Perak State Legislative Assembly,in fact she should have thanked her lucky star for having climbed up to that post for which so many other more experienced,more qualified and dedicated DAP members have not got the chance to get.

  302. “I suggest that Nizar should simply return the “Dato’ Seri” title to the Sultan. Anyone other than Jeffrey disagree ?” (Godfather).

    Godfather’s suggestion that Nizar should simply return the “Dato’ Seri” title to the Sultan is an extremist one characteristic of his mindset which right & measured thinking people thinking of Nizar/PR’s best interest will not rush to do!

    Besides the point raised by Onlooker Politics in posting February 7th, 2009 at 08: 57.04, it must be born in mind that Nizar has done nothing wrong to dishonor his title – the Sultan has not asked it back – and therefore to return the title under such circumstances to the Sultan, as Godfather suggests, is calculated with the intention of insulting or dishonoring the Royalty just because one’s does not agree with HRH’s interpretation of and action based on Article 16 (6) of Perak State Constitution.

    Fortunately neither PR nor Nizar is as impetuous and foolish as some of their overzealous supporters whose vision is only as far as the distance between eyes and nose and hence whose advice no matter as well intentioned will do more harm than good!!

    The stance taken by PR/Nizar is to maintain recourse to challenge the constitutionality of the transfer of power. It appears to be grounded on a good basis in law as above discussions show; it appears to be a way to repudiate the legal and moral legitimacy of the BN’s state govt hurriedly formed in Perak, which is more dignified that Nizar’s initial charade of going through the motion of rescheduling appointments as MB with consultants and investors against the backdrop of BN’s fait accompli.

    What requires to be balanced is the need for (1) legal recourse suit against (2) the need to maintain respect of the institution of Royalty/Monarchy (as distinct from whether or not one agrees, as a matter of constitutional law with HRH Sultan Azlan Shah’s interpretation).

    Which is why PR nor Nizar’s decision to maintain legal recourse (but not directed at the Sultan) is measured and well calculated!

  303. The approach adopted by PR/Nizar appears to be to challenge the constitutional validity of Dato’s Zamri’s appointment as MB on basis that the interpretation of law leading to such appointment is misdirected in law.

    It is routine people challenge judges’ interpretation of law by appealing to higher or alternative forum against their decisions without implicating disrespect or dishonor of the judges personally or the institution of judiciary they represent.

    It is fine line, one can say, since the decision erroneously made led to the wrong action and difficulty of discrediting the decision without discrediting the decision maker itself.

    Rarefied as the distinction may be – and difficult as it is to maintain the distinction – yet it must be made.

  305. Quote:
    mother of three Says:
    February 7th, 2009 at 00: 53.09

    Next election???????Don’t be too confident.By then, many things will be changed and more new laws will be in place in order to favour them.

    PR made the Mar 2008 GE Tsunami mainly due to Hindraf & Bersih campaign. Can we say it is a coincident? depending on luck too, I don’t know why, but the rakyat seems to be swayed by issues/actions that happen just before a GE. So if by the next GE PR Aduns & MP candidates can really show with their sincerely hearts that they care & they can perform, I see no reason why PR cannot take over Perak again – this time with an astounding majority. BN will then have no face and a shameful defeat.

  306. My brain is bleeding at the Asian definition of ‘respect’ Jeffrey. If my friends think I am full of sh!t, they instantly tell me, out of respect and concern that I may not have realised where I have gone astray. I’d rather you substituted ‘face’, ‘honour’, ‘obedience’, ‘subservience’, ‘sycophancy’, ‘loyalty’ or any other such terms for the antiquated foolishness I believe you’re referring to.

    What has actually been lodged with the courts? Is it a complaint of some kind, or an appeal for judicial review of what has happened in Perak? It appears to me that there is ample ‘elbow-room’ for a complaint to be lodged on the basis that the sultan has not acted in strict agreement with the pertinent law. It is, in terms of heinous wrongs and glorious rights, a very small matter. Despite the upset caused to the people of Perak and beyond, it’s a matter of simple procedure. If the people of Malaysia cannot risk questioning a simple matter of procedure, what else are they unable to question?

    Zambry appears to be an able politician – my fear would be that by directing a case toward him, PR’s law team would immediately fail on the basis that Zambry himself has done nothing wrong.

    I just made the mistake of looking at NST. Why do they make the photographs of those buffoons (“the sultan’s decision shows BN is legal”, “Just accept / the law must be respected”) so big? Is it so I can print them out and frame them on my wall?

  309. lbl Says:
    February 7th, 2009 at 10: 15.10

    I think the DAP should hold an inquiry as to why Hee Yit Foong defected to the BN. Is it because of the 2 cousins, Datuk Ngeh Koo Ham and Nga Kor Ming?
    Before the last election Fong Po Kuan also had some problems with the 2 cousins.

    jus legitimum Says:
    February 7th, 2009 at 10: 47.08

    lbl,do not blame the two cousins
    —————————————————————————————————————
    I think the ‘two cousins issue’ should not just be ignored. DAP has to make an in house inquiry to find the ‘root’ cause of the problem. Far from blaming, this is meant to identify the actual ‘weaknesses’ which might have partly contributed to the defection of Hee and apparent dissatisfaction amongst members of the Pakatan.

    ——————————————————————————————
    Ku Li: Why Nizar is still the MB
    “Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin is still the Perak Mentri Besar until he resigns of his own accord, or is removed by a vote of no-confidence in a formal sitting of the State Assembly”, said Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah.
    ——————————————————————————————–
    Dato Seri IR Nizar will always be the Perakian’s MB! I agree with Jeffrey- PR/Nizar’s decision to maintain legal recourse (but not directed at the HRH Sultan) is a measured and well calculated strategy. Before am accuse of adopting a ‘flip-flop’ mentality-(no pun intended Godfather) I have said all along this is part of the ‘regrouping’ process. We are ‘retreating’ from the battle-and now engaging in a war of attrition. We seek to strengthen the constitutional position of the Pakatan administration and delegitimize BN’s coup de tat. Zambry might still be the MB at the end of the day-but severely weaken in the eye of the people and the rules of law. And the silver lining in the cloud- The illegal administration might collapse and HRH Sultan will have no choice but to call for a fresh election.

  310. Dato Seri Nizar,

    I would like to acknowledge your stand in wanting to make a difference to Perak. In the space of a short 10 months you have won the hearts of Perakians. I hear of only good things about your deeds. You really have a clear conscience and will be able to sleep well.

    Do not let this setback stop you from moving forward. It only means that there is a lot more hard work from now till GE13. Be really ready by then. Make sure that there are calibre candidates ready to take on the vision you and PR has started. Make sure that they are genuine and with integrity.

    Come GE13 all this hard work will pay off.

    I ugre you to advise your beloved people to stop any confrontations that may get anyone hurt. Patience is the virtue.

  312. The main issue here is the BN govt is not legitimate until election is called. It is further illegal when the 3 indepedents havent joined BN, what more 2 of them are suspected criminals.

    By the words of Najib and Sultan, you formed a new govt. This is ridiculous. The state secretary cannot take side and political too. And you cannot humiliate an elected govt as happened to MB Nizar yesterday morning. He needs to resigned first before swearing in a new MB. And he cannot resigned until a vote of no confidence or dissolution of assembly takes place.

    To Umno, don’t tarnish democracy and the role of free elections, please. And this should not be set as a precedent for time to come. The world is watching us closely via international media like IHT, AP, CNA.

    [deleted]

    Perak should not be BN’s priority. The priority should be economy and review of ISA and NEP.

    >> coverage as it happened two days ago: http://www.patchay.com/2009/02/hooha-hooha-in-malaysia.html

  315. Just to add (to my previous comment which is still being ‘moderated’)-another silver lining in the cloud….the relentless support shown by DAP and PKR leaders and members, towards YAB Dato Seri IR Nizar – from PAS is the ‘true spirit’ of Pakatan that might have been lacking before. Perhaps this is where Pakatan ‘turn the corner’ and start working towards a stronger and viable coalition, ready to undertake the Federal Government in the next general election.

  317. Article XVI(6) of the Perak Constitution says (cut and paste from somewhere above):

    “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly, then unless at his request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council.”

    To my mind this provision is meant for a specific situation i.e. when the chief min of the state loses popular support in the assembly by which i mean majority support (using the language of the constitution).

    Has this happen yet? It is arguable. Loh made a valid point. Losing majority support of the assembly must be an event certain. Disagreement is to be expected and disagreement with the chief min by assembly members in numbers which are sufficient to form majority is not (strictly speaking) an impossible event. However, such chanced grouping of majority view is the product of vicissitudes and cannot be counted as certainty in respect of which the contitutional provision could be kicked into operation. Now if the three traitors were to join bn than certainty of the said event would be beyond question. Again the same conclusion can be made if a declaration of no-confidence against the cm was passed by the assembly. But is a mere line-crossing by three traitors sufficient to land the event with the necessary certainty? To my mind this is doubtful. At the same time it is not like the majority disagreement scenario i have painted above. It would be appropriate to see the three of them as standing in middle ground and that would not be certain enough for one to conclude that the chief min has lost majority support. A no-confidence motion is the only way ahead for them and for najib. Mere declaration of support or affiliation will not do. The story would be different if they started as independants (i.e. partyless) but campaigned under bn umbrella and manifesto.

    Speaking of kicking the constitutional provision into operation, it is quite obvious to my mind – and hardly controversial, I believe – that the cm in the circumstances is required to “tender the resignation of the Executive Council”. However the cm is also given the option to request HRH to dissolve the assembly. In short the provision tells the cm what to do if he should lose majority support; and he has two options. It is important to note that the provision places no exceptions or limitations upon the two options – in particular upon the exercise of the options. They are free standing options and the cm has complete liberty to pick whichever one he feels appropriate. In other words, the choice is his and his only. Now that Nizar has chosen to request for dissolution can HRH decline? Without the benefit of reading the other provisions of the constitution, I am of the view that HRH cannot. Doing so would simply make a nonsense of the options.

  318. YB Nizar,
    i m a Perakian in Johor already know that u hv done many good things to the Perakians. I really sad looking at your sad face in Sin Chew Press. U r not losing but u had been ragut and rompak by Najis and the Peragut of Umno, U know tis is what happen to JB a RAGUT CITY .
    Anyway, the Perakians r still behind u and bcareful next time when u get along with Mamak like the katak Jamaludin and i suppose the the idiot from Pangkor also a Makmak was the man who went against the issue of grant to TOL for Perakians. Do u all think he will do better? question the 3 dead frogs lah!

  320. Undergrad2,
    It is not working not because we do not have a state police or state Supreme Court like in the U.S.

    I can’t imagine states like Perlis and Melaka are able to sustain a state police or a state supreme court although I fully agree that may be it is time to dismantle the national police force. They are just too powerful and overwhelming for the good of this country.

    There is no way we can foresee or fill up all the loopholes of constitutions. So the issue is not really constitutions or interpretation of constitutions. It is about who we are – our animalistic behaviour, never believing in fair play, treating public offices as source of wealth and income, leaders talk one thing and do another, and citizens just know how to groan at coffee shops.

  321. as usual for any newcomer to the power will make all sweet promises until the cow would not eat grass and eat the meat instead.
    But any of you will buy the sweet?

    It was also reported in Malaysiakini that the two tainted kataks will be charged as promise by MACC. The strange thing is why this assurance? If charge be made then it will be charge regardless who you are. Who is your political party. It is this assurance try to counter the people perception that once you alight with the those in the power of corridor you will get favorable treatment. If so the perception is real? or it is real. Right!

    Let look no far. Down south. People who evade tax will ave to go to jail and paid the penalties that is as simple as it is. Even a southern political figure also being put to jail by the government at the southern end of our country just try to bribe a traffic police. So if BN want to make changes why not enforce the law that it should be.

    Do you really trust BN and all their promises.?

  322. OrangRojak said, “My brain is bleeding at the Asian definition of ‘respect’ Jeffrey” – posting of February 7th, 2009 at 11: 50.41
    Yes, the term “respect” boggles the mind when it is used in different contexts.

    On level between individuals, it is not presumed or gratuitously proffered to someone undeserving. It is earned.

    However on societal level, when one deals with an institution, whether Judiciary or Monarchy, then “respect” is accorded (as opposed to “earned) to that institution, if for whatever reason, historical, traditional, rational or irrational, such is valued to be retained in the society.

    Then it gets a bit complicated as a distinction is sought to be drawn between the position and the person currently occupying it.

    We then have an anomalous situation in which one could get so angry with the official/person sitting on that chair that one could spit in his face and yet feel like demanding an apology from him in impeding the path of your saliva, and yet by virtue of his position – and you guess it, “respect for the institution” – refrained from doing so. In part this is because that institution “respected” is permanent; it survives its immediate occupier, no matter how despicable a person; the position may also be symbolic of certain values and traditions held dear.

    ‘Respect’ is this regard is not peculiarly an Asian definition – no more than Western: for eg, a Briton might think Prince Charles a nerd and yet in his royal presence would say polite things – same as some conservative American might squirm if his daughter shares 5 minutes of conversation with Bill Clinton and yet would not show it. All kinds of motions were initiated as a means to provide Clinton or Nixon a graceful exit (short of last resort of impeachment) because of this so called “respect” for the institution of presidency. Same in the case of Judiciary, they will say, if my Lordship so pleases when what they would have wished to say is, “bugger off you old fool!” So there is hypocrisy and fiction in this as in other areas for social life.

    The “respect” institution of Monarchy here is different in nuance from institution of judiciary/presidency referred to above. This institution is “feudal” in origin and tradition – quite apart from institution of judiciary/presidency where a society, as the USA, has not the feudal tradition. So “respect” for Monarchy would, I imagine include ‘face’, ‘obedience’, ‘subservience’ ‘sycophancy’ etc, often interchangeable. Having said this, history has also shown, that if an institution repeatedly, by actions/omissions of its occupier disappoints, angers and frustrates felt needs, then its value will diminish and it may in due course be abandoned.

    Whilst we are aware that PR has evinced an intention to maintain legal action, as a matter of principle, we are not aware which specific party it would sue, which surely would depend on legal advice. However it has since backtracked from initial mention of suing Royalty for reasons of pragmatic restraint based on “respect” for institution of Monarchy.

  323. “…..a government of the people, by the people and for the people”….. John F. Kennedy

    “….a government of UMNO, led by UMNO and for UMNO”…. ???

    Did UMNO act alone without consulting its coalition partners? What say MCA, MIC, Gerakan etc etc who will now bear the brunt of the people’s anger? All might be wiped out soon all because of the PM-in-waiting.

  324. If Perakians is serious about democracy, and having a good state government, at least 500,000 of you should line up the streets, and make your voice heard, loud and clear. I want to see how Syed Hamid is going to deal with it.

  325. Look at the so many Malays who used their naked body to support the PR government in Perak. The multi-racial PR government. BN is mostly UMNO, the corrupted ones head by a criminal on the loose. Yet these Malays did not support this mostly Malay BN government. They support the one who truly serve and help the people. We hope PR will be back soon with a greater majority.

    Naturally we are disappointed by the Sultan. Was he also under threat by the criminal on the loose?

    For that former DAP woman, you are the most disgusting woman on earth. You are a traitor to the women and to the Chinese. You should have committed harakiri by now instead of defecting.

  326. Dear Perak Today,

    As much as Nizar claims that BN manipulated the events in Perak, he must not forget how he also guilty of the same tactic; accepting UMNO ADUN Bota into PR fold.

    My point is that NIzar becomes victim of Anwar’ s greed. The moral of the story, never initiate unethical act( such as trying to bribe ADUN Bota or any MPs from the other divide) if you do not want to suffer similar fate.

    No need to lecture about BN buring ADUN Jelapang when you also involve in this same game. And if PR insist on this dirty tactic, it must expect the other side to react.

    As simple as that. As for questioning the decision of the Sultan, well be prepared to lose the votes from Malay community. The Sultan may want to avoid another round of time-consuming election campaign when we just had another last year.

    I appeal Nizar to show some humility by accepting reality that his govt had already collapsed. This is the price that you paid for allowing Anwar’s unimaginable greed into your state govt.

    You got what you deserved. Why enticed Adun Bota in the first place? Why so upset when BN also used the same game to induce Hee into BN’s fold?

    As for showering praise on Nizar, please take note that many Malays rejoice at the collapse of Nizar’s govt. Hopefully, the policy of making malays as “pariah” in Perak, courtesy of Nizar, will stop.

    As for Anwar, look that you are beaten in your own court

    .

  328. Thanks for the reply Jeffrey – I had better stop commenting, I think. The lack of responses to my letter-posting campaign to get a telephone that works (it’s a political fault, rather than a technical one), followed by events in Perak, followed by accidentally seeing the NST, is turning me into a Rationalist Fundamentalist. Next thing I know, I’ll be buying a big box of eggs, writing ‘Freedom’ on them with a highlighter pen and charging the riot police in Putrajaya shouting “say jello to my leetle frens!”. I am utterly against infringing even the most trivial law and abhor violence as a means to an end, so my brain now feels like it wants to explode.

    I worry that a PR federal government is a slight possibility at GE13. I am more convinced that it would suffer almost exactly the same fate as Perak’s government. Insulated from the machinery of power by old friends’ networks and extra-professional allegiances, I imagine they’d find it very difficult to perform, and even more difficult to keep members who know how easy it is to retire to a life of fun at their own mansion in Australia, should they only trade in their mandate.

    Nobody should be forbidden to protest, but protest may play into the hands of those itching to demonstrate their power. I’m a useful person – what can I legally do to help PR? Blogs have been great for winning popular support, and a campaign site when it comes, will no doubt be an expensive work of graphic art. If PR needs any functional information infrastructure, I can do that, and I’d be happy to donate my time, visa permitting.

    democracy in cyberspace
    I think this is technically anarchy, dawsheng – it’s great, isn’t it? Only really possible when there’s some other system putting food on the table.

  329. I think the Perakians should firstly pelt the four ugliest traitors with rotten eggs and later openly reprimand them wherever and whenever possible for their most disgusting actions and behaviour.By doing so,the non Perakians like we all will also at least have our anger vented.

  332. Bigjoe Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 09: 02.50
    If DAP knew there was a potential constitutional crises, why did they let Nizar see the Sultan on his own without Karpal Singh or a constitutional expert with him? Did Nizar made a good constitutional argument? I seriously doubt so. PR Perak govt is proving not to be stepping up on crucial moments…

    Put it this way: The Sultan is the former top judge in the country. He should not need either side to argue out the constitution to him. It is clear that his mind is already made up, regardless of anything that Nizar can say to him, and that the only thing he wanted from Nizar was for Nizar to just resigned as instructed. Otherwise, you would not see the one-sided statement that: if Nizar did not resign, then his post is considered vacant. It is very clear from this kind of language, that HRH is partial towards BN.

  333. Someone is really talking nonsense about “respect”. If respect is as described above, there would be no revolution and kings and queens would have to abdicate or in some instances have their heads chopped off. Comparison was then made of Prince Charles of UK. Look, Prince Charles has never and will never enjoy that kind of power as here. The British people and the British political system will ensure that this does not happen. We must differentiate respect for someone holding a “titular” role and and those holding substantive power and making substantive decision. No matter who that person is, if that person makes substantive decisions and exercises power and discretion, then that person’s respect must be earned. Don’t get yourself into typical third world mentality.

  334. It’s unbelievable that such things can still happen in a supposedly developed country like Malaysia.
    We aspire to become a developed economy by 2020.
    Can We ???
    The governing BN/Umno must behave in a more civilized manner. Not to use the Nazi..b’s method !
    Malaysian Ringgit and Singapore Dollar were of same value in 1965. Now ? 100 RM is worth only S$42.
    If BN/UMNO continues its policy, the country will continue to go down the longkang !!!!

  335. We are not going to wait for four years.
    We’re going to do it by today,tommorrow,next week or even next year.
    As long as there is a by-election anywhere, we’ll sweep you off every state.
    We’ve confidence in doing that because after this crisis, we are more matured and care more for each other.
    The anger and the feelings deep inside made us forget about what races and religion we are.
    We don’t care whether we’re chinese,malay,indian or whatsoever!
    We care about justice, democracy and unity and that’s what it counts.
    Up till now, I’m still “mourning” deep inside not because of the fall of Perak states but by the action of a “head of the state”, who supported foul play.
    I usually never care much about politics because I don’t gain anything from it.
    Promise of developement here and there and this and that.
    Who benefited those?
    Build highways and we’ve to pay tolls!
    Bring more developement and we’ve spend more on parkings and other things.
    By reality, nothing benefits us at all.
    We’ve to work real hard for our money while you “raiders” tax us on everything.
    Everyone of us who was born here was given the equal right to be here and everything belongs to us equally.
    I don’t take sides and I’m not bluffing for I’m not like that old master of flip flop!
    My hard is pure and I pitied those who’re being bullied.
    We’re not easily tempted by sweets and goodies anymore!!!
    You hold funtions, we attend.
    You hold open house, we eat.
    We shake your hands, we’ll wash it with dettol after that.
    You give whatever good, we’ll still take it.
    And till time comes, when there’s election whether big or small, we’ll sent you buckling up.
    You think there’s no god so that you idiots could fool around.
    Pretending to be religious and going to mosque, while lying to god on the other side.
    Using all your bloody laws to suppress us and putting your own people as head of lawmakers to bully us.
    Just wait and see for it would’nt be long and I guarantee that.
    We’ll act in the name of god, from now onwards till the next GE!

  336. We have no problems putting food on the table.
    That’s what I mean. I might have been wrong about anarchy in cyberspace – there are monarchs, obviously – ever been in ‘moderation’? LKS is taking part in an anarchy, as he has his own blog, but still, hosting companies have been known to pull the plug at the first suggestion of legal action by someone offended by a site.

    Perak is officially still a democracy, the democratically elected federal government has told us it is… If you wanted the democracy / anarchy you’re enjoying online IRL (In Real Life) in Malaysia, I don’t doubt for a moment that your hosts would ‘put you in moderation’, if they didn’t return you to your family with parts ‘[deleted]’.

  337. Repost because of mistake earlier:

    Someone is really talking nonsense about “respect”. If respect is as described above, there would be no revolution and kings and queens would not have to abdicate or in some instances have their heads chopped off. Comparison was then made of Prince Charles of UK. Look, Prince Charles has never and will never enjoy that kind of power as here. The British people and the British political system will ensure that this does not happen. We must differentiate respect for someone holding a “titular” position and those holding substantive power and making substantive decision. No matter who that person is, if that person makes substantive decisions and exercises power and discretion, then that person’s respect must be earned. Don’t get yourself into typical third world mentality.

  338. lbl Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 10: 15.10
    Dear YB,
    I think the DAP should hold an inquiry as to why Hee Yit Foong defected to the BN. Is it because of the 2 cousins, Datuk Ngeh Koo Ham and Nga Kor Ming?
    Before the last election Fong Po Kuan also had some problems with the 2 cousins.
    Probably being ladies they are helpless against the gang of DAP 2 cousins.
    Please look into this before the rot spreads.

    ———

    But you see, Fong Po Kuan would never betray the rakyat. The most serious she went to was to decide not to contest, no thoughts about defecting at all. After thinking it over, she came back to contest and won for DAP. Not like the b@stard bxxch Hee.

    But I agree that Datuk Ngeh should be queried by DAP national leadership for allowing one of his people to be stolen by the other side. He should have seen the present situation coming sooner. If he thinks on DAP’s behalf, he should return his Datuk title back, and continue DAP’s crusade with a “Datuk” title.

  339. I admire so many of you here, including Jeffrey, OrangRojak, undergrad2, etc., for having so much time to argue over things that are quite beyond our control. HRH Sultan Raja Azlan Shah, Najib, Pak Lah, Niar, DESAI, etc, just have no time to read what you all are trying to put across.
    What I do know is that with rapid urbanisation especially along the west coast the gap of thinking between the Malays and non-Malays regarding national issues is fast narrowing. This is a very healthy development simply because the votes are in their hands. All that we need to do to effect change in our country is through making more friends not only with our own kind but also other races.

  340. I think the DAP should hold an inquiry as to why Hee Yit Foong defected to the BN. Is it because of the 2 cousins, Datuk Ngeh Koo Ham and Nga Kor Ming?

    No need for enquiry for even a stupid fella could understand what it’s all about. She complained that she was never given an exco member position and was given a proton perdana instead of Camry.
    The devil tempted her with millions and she agreed to exchange it for her “soul”.
    Not only she sold her “soul” but she too absconded those voters hope as well.
    She even tarnished the image of all those handicap fellas in this country.
    The chinese believed that there are 18 levels in hell.
    So for traitor Yee! with the millions that you’ve gained from your action, I hope that you could bring along all of those fortunes of yours, to bribe your way down, till your time comes.

  341. Malaysian Insider (7 Feb):Will Najib flatter to deceive?

    Hell, I think Najib will flatten to deceive!

    And: “His supporters say that he should not be judged by the track records of Dr Mahathir or Abdullah, pointing out that Najib truly understands that the country he will lead will be the most polarised and divided in history.”

    Hello, can you give me a different joke?

  343. As far as i am concern………..the royalty was just being made used of.And unfortunately an “apple” may have been used to damaged the whole basket of the other apples.In this case the Apple refers to Royalties.Just went the rakyat have gone towards and embrace the royalty to uphold justice and blah blah blah….and fortunately some other royalties have opened their eyes and knew what was wrong and what was right to do.So…Umno need this to break the trust the rakyat have towards the royalties and it seems it works well.BN is not too concern about the near future (BACKLASH FROM VOTERS)in any FUTURE election since they have puppets in the election commission and judiaciary and ofcourse PDRM.What concerns most for BN or shall i say umno is the rakyat looking up to the royalties for guidance and to uphold justice . And since respects have restored from the views of the rakyat till todate for the royalties ,…..then comes this Perak episode whcih will eventually “again” tarnish their good name and mistrust by the rakyat.So whether we like it or not,what BN have done is a complete success for their”AGENDA”(again..never mind the future backlash)…but most important is getting the rakyat to not trust royalties again.That is utmost important for BN and Umno.Others..well..they can tackle it one at a time.Well…its a priority for Umno to get the rakyat to not trust Royalties is the RIGHT priority in the right order.

  344. I came across this topic in Malaysian Insider just now:-

    “BN begins uphill battle for hearts and minds in Perak” It seems they have a Chinese New Year Treat, a strategy to win over the Chinese and non-Malays. This is the most crucial time for PR to prove people’s support fro them once again.
    Why not PR arranges its own CNY treat by MB Nizar in Perak. Let the entire state population join them showing their support? I hope PR considers this seriously.

  345. The current Perak Constitutional Crisis is an event of power struggle which is not ended yet. It is not merely the power struggle between BN and PR, but it is also the power struggle between the Royalty and the Executive.

    When Mr. Karpal Singh is to file a petition to the high court for a judicial review, then the judiciary will be the arbiter which is to determine whether a ruler really enjoys absolute power to dismiss the Menteri Besar.

    I am not going to jump into the conclusion or guessing now that how the court is going to rule in Mr. Karpal’s petition. However, I wish to list down the several possible outcomes which may appear in the court judgement:
    1) The Sultan wins and therefore all rulers will be given full power (through the case law) to dismiss a Menteri Besar whom either has displeased his ruler or has been voted out of office in the motion of no confidence against him in the State Assembly.
    2) Mr. Karpal wins therefore the Sultan has no right to dismiss his MB until the Sultan dissolves the State Assembly.
    3) Both the Sultan and Mr. Karpal win because the court will rule in such a way that the Sultan is given some restrictive rights to remove his MB based on certain legitimate reasons such as
    a) The MB has committed a severe crime;
    b) The MB has been voted out of office through a motion of no confidence against him by the majority of the State Assembly;
    c) The MB is certified by a medical doctor that he is incapable to satisfactorily perform his duty as an MB due to health reason or senility reason;
    d) The MB has committed immorality because he secretly keeps a fifth wife.

    Option (3) may be a much more favourable outcome to the majority of Malaysian people because it provides some checks-and-balances to the excessive power of the Executive while confirming the role of the ruler as the stake holder during the power transfer of the state government from one party to another party. Meanwhile, option (3) will provide some restrictions to the prerogative power of the Sultan to dismiss an MB in order to prevent a further running down of the power into despotism via absolute power being vested into the hand of the Sultan. Option (3) will better clarify the limit of the ruler’s power in the system of Constitutional Monarchy.

    In view of the above possible outcomes, it is not too bad for the common Malaysian people to have such a constitutional crisis because the judiciary branch of the government is going to be given a chance to prove that the judiciary itself is not simply an instrumental device of the Executive in Malaysia.

  346. If you wanted the democracy / anarchy you’re enjoying online IRL (In Real Life) in Malaysia, I don’t doubt for a moment that your hosts would ‘put you in moderation’, if they didn’t return you to your family with parts ‘[deleted]‘. – OrangRojak

    Then give up, don’t fight! Be a silent majority and say goodbye to PR.

  347. My sincere advise to our leaders in the opposition please recall all the PKR, DAP PAS aduns and have a serious heart to heart talk that in the future no ADUN will leapfrog to BN. Besides it is also lesson learnt that sign letter of resignation is not valid, find ways legally so that any future insident such as that just happen will not be repeated.

    It is most advisable that Dato Khalid (MB Selangor) recall his ADUN and make them to renew a new pledges of support and also get them to sign new letters of resignation,or you may have to loss Selangor like Perak.

    Its like Selangor next in line, money can buy anything name the price.

  348. this mamak zamry’s face is very similar to one umno youth ex-leader that went to chinese assembly hall to ask for fight on the year 2000!

    i really hate those mamak in umno,normally,they are more malay than malay!!!

    let us recall the incident that created almost another 513 in KL:
    Petaling Jaya, Monday): The Inspector-General of Police, Tan Sri Norian Mai, should explain why UMNO Youth Deputy Leader Datuk Abdul Aziz Sheikh Fadzir is allowed to go on an anti-national rampage undermining inter-racial harmony, when a PAS youth leader would have been detained under ISA for doing half of what the UMNO Youth leader had done.

    Last Friday, in utter disregard and disrespect of sensitivities of a multi-racial, multi-lingual, multi-cultural and multi-religious Malaysia, Abdul Aziz led an unruly, abusive and gangsterish UMNO Youth demonstration at the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall in Kuala Lumpur to protest against the Malaysian Chinese Organisation Elections Appeals Committee (Suqiu).

    Inflammatory and racist placards were displayed during the UMNO Youth demonstration threatening a racial conflict, reporters and photographers were manhandled and abused, while threats to “burn down the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall” were issued.

    Many had questioned where were the police water cannons and FRU last Friday when UMNO Youth staged not only an illegal assembly, but a highly unruly, abusive and gangsterish demonstration reminiscent of UMNO Youth’s lawless and gangsterish break-up of the Second Asia-Pacific Conference on East Timor (APCET) in Kuala Lumpur in November 1996.

    What would have happened if the MCA Youth had been equally insensitive about Malaysia’s plural society and had staged a similar unruly, abusive and gangsterish demonstration outside say the Malay Chamber of Commerce, displaying racist and inflammatory placards and threatening to “burn down the Malay Chamber of Commerce”? Wouldn’t this have sparked off a “racial confrontation”?

    What is even more deplorable is that Abdul Aziz and UMNO Youth are trying to escalate racial tensions in the country, threatening an even “bigger” demonstration if Suqiu Committee does not heed the UMNO Youth’s one-week ultimatum by Thursday to apologise for the Suqui demands.

    Again, what would have happened if a PAS youth leader had led an unruly, abusive and gangsterish demonstration outside the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall, issuing a one-week ultimatum with the threat to burn down the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall? There is no doubt that such a PAS youth leader would have immediately been detained under the Internal Security Act for inflaming racial sentiments, tensions and animosities among the various races in the country and actions detrimental to national security!

    Tan Sri Norian Mai should realise that UMNO Youth and Abdul Aziz have placed the police credibility, independence, professionalism and integrity under a very great test and the police have not acquitted itself very impressively or creditably so far.

    Abdul Aziz and UMNO Youth should in fact apologise and drop their unreasonable demand that the Suqiu Committee withdraw and apologise for the Suqiu demands as they cannot be unaware that MCA, Gerakan and SUPP had declared their full support for the 17-point Suqiu demands on August 17 last year.

    Or are they next going to demand that MCA, Gerakan and SUPP leaders, namely Datuk Seri Dr. Ling Liong Sik, Datuk Seri Dr. Lim Keng Yaik and Datuk Law Hieng Ding should publicly withdraw and apologise for supporting the Suqiu demands before the last general election?

    It is most regrettable that there are no signs that any top government leader, whether Prime Minister Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohamad or the Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Abdullah Badawi, is heeding the DAP call that they should put a stop to the irresponsible politicking by extremist, desperate and bankrupt UMNO leaders who are prepared to plunge the country into a communal and political crisis just to serve their political ends to restore Malay political support.

    All Malaysians, regardless of race, religion or political beliefs, who love Malaysia and cherish inter-racial harmony, should step forward to condemn the irresponsible politicking of UMNO Youth and Abdul Aziz and make clear that there is no place for such political desperados and reckless communal politicking in Malaysia in the new millennium.

    The Barisan Nasional Cabinet and Government, in particular, must make a categorical stand to denounce UMNO Youth and Abdul Aziz for the unruly, abusive, gangsterish and provocative demonstration at the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall last Friday and the threats of a bigger demonstration and to “burn down the Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall” on the expiry of its baseless and ridiculous one-week ultimatum.

    (21/8/2000)

  350. The following links refer:

    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/17837-najib-defends-power-grab-as-constitutional

    http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/17831-will-najib-flatter-to-deceive

    What can we expect when we have a scenario where the interests of ALL Malaysians are marginalized, sidelined, hijacked, abused, overlooked on purpose, compromised, and whatnot by the administration which promised to look after and defend their interest.

    The events and history of the nation are best described as a major failure in more ways than one given the vast resources, potential and inherent riches the nation is endowed with.

    That the vast resources, in terms of human capital and potential and that of natural endowments, had not been fairly, equitably, sensibly, honestly, accountably and transparently managed with integrity is a complete let down.

    Coupled that with the conveniently prejudiced and discriminating interpretation of the Federal Constitution to favor certain ethnic or religious groups, and the concomitant one-sided preferential treatment of the same in matters political, economic, social and educational indeed made a mockery of the the democratic and parliamentary principles that it claimed to practise.

    With such systemic faulty tendencies and biased administration, certainly it is a matter of time before major consequential problems would surface.

    No amount of half-hearted or insincere attempts to address and redress the problems or half-baked policies would heal the damage done.

    It seems that divide-and-rule is the preferred path to take in order to procure and perpetrate the interests of the untouchable few. Henceforth, all sorts of policies are devised in the name of social engineering and equity distribution to achieve a more balanced and even distribution of wealth and assets among the various ethnic groups in the country.

    That there is a need to provide aids wherever and whenever necessary is not disputed at all. But the methods and approaches and intentions (especially the covert ones) are highly questionable and suspect.

    Recent Events.

    That a power grab which is disputed and questioned by a major segment of society and considered constitutional by the perpetrators none other than the federal government is indeed shameful, shocking and immoral.

    The situation and circumstances which lead the BN to successfully overthrow the still legitimate Perak state government is full of treachery, conspiracy, deception, manipulation, questionable intrigue, etc. etc. and seen as unconstitutional by many legal experts. Such kind of coup is new to Malaysian political scenario and, worse, one which was orchestrated by none other than a prime minister in-waiting.

    It is indeed a very sad day for Malaysia. In many a heart, the pain of seeing such a lowly and unthinkable act happening before our very eyes could cause tears of blood to be shed.

    What can the common people like you, me and everyone else expect to happen in our beloved nation in the future? When even a supposedly revered royalty cannot side with the rakyat in such a crucial time is indeed difficult to swallow.

    Let’s pray that good sense would prevail in time to come. And that the good would prevail over the evil. That those who prey and abuse others for their own selfish interest would be trounced and defeated, once and for all.

  351. Why I don’t see world TV channels like CNN, BBC or Aljazerra making report about recent coup d’tate in Perak by Najis and all its scumbags?

    Were such media all being bought by Najis? All was it a blackout by the UMNO?

    Aljazerra has a big news center lacated in KL, how can it remain silent?

  352. Applying umno-style money politics outside of umno to purchase political strength. Wrong move. Fatal move. The recent event I can feel is the last straw for people outside umno. For voters. For true malaysians. And for the country. Let us do what we can within the bounds of law to ensure that umno and umno-ism is eradicated once and for all and not just defeated. It is our duty to save ourselves and the country from the rot that has been spreading fast and wide.

  353. mendela, BBC have had this story on their Asia Pacific webpage since yesterday. I’m not surprised it hasn’t made the TV, it just sounds like another normal day in a palm-oil republic. Nobody died, it isn’t very funny, and worst of all, nobody was accused of taking it up the gary or being ‘too Jewish’. The BBC ‘did Malaysia to death’ in the run up to KT – there were several reports at that time. If they gave Perak coverage now, Mahathir would be screaming “interfering cross-dressing Jewish sodomites!” at them.

  354. for Hee, you can leave DAP if you are not happy with the leadership, but why support BN? it’s totally illogical, unless some events happened behind it.
    I hope we are not going backward in democracy

  355. All conscience minded bloggers, please start a SAY NO TO ZAMBRY campaign. I have designed three logos for you to download and put in your websites, blogs or even toilet.

    400X400 pixels: http://www.nkkhoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-rakyats-say-no-to-zambry-400.jpg

    250X250 pixels: http://www.nkkhoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-rakyats-say-no-to-zambry-250.jpg

    150X150 pixels: http://www.nkkhoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/the-rakyats-say-no-to-zambry-150.jpg

  356. DS Anwar please stop your nonsense “katak” defection game first. You have toppled PBS state government with this dirty tactic when you were in UMNO.

    Defection of any assemplypersons is against the will of rakyats who voted them in. PR stands no higher moral ground than BN in this “katak” game plan.

    Amend constitution to have anti-hopping law to settle this “katak” game once and forever.

  358. Onlooker Politics Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 16: 12.20

    “The MB has committed immorality because he secretly keeps a fifth wife”

    Huh..?? Never knew a Muslim could take on a fifth wife – let alone keep the fact of the marriage a secret. Maybe one at a time but not all in a row.

    You won’t hear this come out even from the mouth of Ann Coulter, the syndicated columnist who makes a living out of bad-mouthing others.

  360. Onlooker Politics Says:

    February 7th, 2009 at 16: 12.20

    “a) MB has committed a severe crime;
    b) ……
    c) MB is certified by a medical doctor that he is incapable to satisfactorily perform his duty as an MB due to health reason or senility reason;”

    So thanks to Karpal, any MB who has committed say aggravated assault, murder and rape cannot now hope to continue in office. Thanks to Karpal, an MB who couldn’t remember how to get back to his home at the end of the day or that is the MB, cannot now hope to continue in office.

    I’ll drink to that!!

  361. ///See what I mean – not like Godfather’s naive ‘got case then fight’ attitude that could get PR into even more problems (as usual)!///– Jeffrey

    The issue is not fighting the Sultan, or even BN. It is getting the court to settle whether the change of government has been carried out according to the provision of the state constitution. It is a case of believing that the country is governed by rule of law, and Pakatan Rakyat is willing to take action to be seen to demand that the government does the right thing.

    The word respect to the royalty has no place in relation to taking the ruler to court. There was a court case between a bank and the late former ruler of Negri Semilan whereby the court found that the Ruler had to make payment to the bank. The judge and the Bank cannot be said to have no respect for the Ruler.

    Similarly, if a court case is launched against the Sultan of Perak, it is a case of exercising the legal option to seek judgment on whether the Ruler had acted according to the constitution in regard to a particular issue, or that a different outcome should result.

    With regards to the political consideration as to whether overzealous loyalist would be offended and alienated if legal proceeding is launched this amounts to strategy on dirty tricks. Political parties should work on policies and implementation of government programs as a basis for soliciting support from voters. The use of sensitive issues to fish votes has been the main stay of UMNO all the past 51 years, and UMNO continues to pander to the wishes of those over-pampered vote banks. After 51 years when kids have become granddads and grandmothers, they have not matured beyond sensitive issues and they can’t be expected to do so anytime soon. .

    If Pakatan cannot fight for the right to rule, how can the voters expect them to fight for better lives for them?

    If it can be accepted that the Ruler can do as he pleases based on his position as the ruler, then it is accepted that he can act outside the constitution. He is then an absolute ruler who can do as his pleases based on the respect the subjects are bound to have for him. Is that what the UMNO politicians want the people to behave? If so, then UMNO is involving the rulers in politics.

  362. Are you saying that a candidate for the post of head of the executive branch is not vetted for any of these right now? You may have a point.

    There are no direct elections (a process which would ordinarily eliminate candidates with a controversial past) to the post of head of the executive branch in this country, and as a result we currently have a politician who despite the controversy surrounding his character is about to take on the most powerful job in the country. However, it is not for the lack of vetting. It is all about entitlement.

  364. I still hear the cry that this is Malay land and the non-Malay citizens should have no rights in Malaysia.

    If this stereotype perception continues, there is no true Malaysians. We are still considered squarters by second generation mamak as recent as a few months ago. If the majority of the Malay education still wrongfully propagate this stereotype, Malaysian citizens have no hope of being Malaysians.

    There will still be “kataks” hopping here and there generations after generations.

  365. Good news. Nazi..b is reported to be not coming to the BN celebration tonight at Yuk Choy Primary School in Ipoh. Neither is the pirate MB ZamZam.
    Apparently, they are scared to face the people who will ‘greet’ them with open arms !!!
    They feel guilty now as they are in the wrong.
    MB Nizar and his government is in the right and will definitely emerge victors in the end.
    The people must continue the boycott BN campaign in Perak as the DPM and the pirate MB are having guilt in their heart !

  369. Since my previous comment is still under moderation- perhaps for ‘questioning’ (I was not even doing that come to think of it) the ‘band of cousins’ -YB Lim I will be a bit astonished if you do condone to such censoring on your blog. I hope am not going to be moderated by just making this statement.

    Anyhow here I just cut and paste my other points:

    Ku Li: Why Nizar is still the MB
    “Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin is still the Perak Mentri Besar until he resigns of his own accord, or is removed by a vote of no-confidence in a formal sitting of the State Assembly”, said Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah.
    ——————————————————————————————–
    Dato Seri IR Nizar will always be the Perakian’s MB! I agree with Jeffrey- PR/Nizar’s decision to maintain legal recourse (but not directed at the HRH Sultan) is a measured and well calculated strategy. Before am accuse of adopting a ‘flip-flop’ mentality-(no pun intended Godfather) I have said all along this is part of the ‘regrouping’ process. We are ‘retreating’ from the battle-and now engaging in a war of attrition. We seek to strengthen the constitutional position of the Pakatan administration and delegitimize BN’s coup de tat. Zambry might still be the MB at the end of the day-but severely weaken in the eye of the people and the rules of law. And the silver lining in the cloud- The illegal administration might collapse and HRH Sultan will have no choice but to call for a fresh election.
    ——————————————————————-
    Pertaining to the legal recourse, I was like ‘here we go again’ when the BN main stream medias like a happy katak -airing the statement YB Karpal made of the issue(yesterday). The one sentence they make sure everybody listen to was “Sultan Perak will be the first defendant”………..and then today both YAB Dato IR Nizar & Dato Seri Anwar had to clean up the ‘PR” mess- PR can be Pakatan Rakyat or Public Relation- the irony *sigh* some people never learn do they? and Lo and Behold the next half and hour of the news report is about Monarchy vs Pakatan,Raja-raja Melayu vs the disrespectful Pakatan members and supporters, Malays who love their sultan vs those basically non-Malays who do not give a hoot to kedaulatan sultan etc.
    Regardless of your views, you are just playing to Najib’s tunes when you start waging a war against the very institution which symbolizes the unity and the courage of the people to accept Pakatan’s rule in Selangor,Kelantan,Kedah and Perak of course before the coup de tat. What YB Karpal and some Pakatan members are doing at the moment is akin to “throwing one’s toys out of the pram”. HRH Sultan is not infallible of course, but considering HRH is still one of the ‘respected’ Malay rulers in the country- this is NOT the right time to antagonize the public opinion by making such a blatant ‘threat’. Want to sue somebody- yeah go ahead and sue Zambry, Najib, UMNO Perak, whoever for making a mockery of the constitution and for blackmailing or misleading HRH Sultan into believing that MB Nizar cease to command the majority etc. Focus on the four kataks-force a ruling to get them vacate the seats and so forth. They are so many ‘battles’ or ways of approaching this war- so what’s the obsession with ‘defaming’ HRH Sultan?

  370. DEar LBJ,

    How you can come come up with such a conclusion about power struggle in UMNO that resulted in Nizar’s govt collapsing is rather “mind boggling” to everybody.

    Let us examine the case. Nizar’s govt played dirty by “bribing” ADUn Bota. BN reacted by inducing Hee and the 2 PKR assemblymen to switch camp.

    Perhaps you forgot how Anwar tried so hard to “bribe” BN MPs just to fulfill his long time ambition of becoming PM. He started the the dirty phsychological campaign. And he was beaten by BN using the very way he promoted .

    The moral of the story is that if Anwar is willing to play dirty, he must be willing to pay the price. So, now, please accept the result of your greed; your govt collapsed in Perak.

    In no way, switching camp is honourable. But spare the double standard . What did Uncle Lim say about Anwar’s telling the whole world aboit toppling the govt that had received the mandate to rule Malaysia. Why Uncle Lim goes along with the plan? I never heard him saying anthing about not joining PKR’s greed to capture Federal govt.

    I never heard him saying to Anwar to respect the mandate accorded to BN. I never heard Uncle Lim saying to Anwar about the right way is winning the next election in order to be PM.

    Why on earh cry out loud when just days ago, Anwar “bribed” ADUN Bota to join PKR. Why now cry out loud when BN also play using the same strategy. What make PR so special that its sins can be absolved but the same act being condemned as heinous if done by BN?

    Why the double standard? why? Why Uncle LIm? Why?

    What make you think that Nizar had performed admirably( if admirably means relegating Malays to 3rd class race)?.

    As for suing the Sultan, do remember that that options goes hand to hand to losing Malay support considerable if not entirely.

  371. Zambry the illegitimate MB…will never walk alone…all of us…yes, PAS, DAP, PKR will always be there to accompany him……every function, event, meeting, by his gate, by his wife, by his children. Yes Zambry…you are the man….you will never walk alone. Waiting to shake your hand on Chinese New Year celebrations….anyone care for a glass of arsenic.

  372. Zambry the illegitimate MB…will never walk alone…all of us…yes, PAS, DAP, PKR will always be there to accompany him……every function, event, meeting by his gate, by his wife, by his children. Yes Zambry…you are the man….you will never walk alone. Waiting to shake your hand on Chinese New Year celebrations….anyone care for a glass of cyanide

  373. //I agree with many of them who said that PR should let BN have the state of Perak. In this way you all will gain more respect. PR must show that it is a civilised and educated party. They do not behave like BN plunderers. Yes, run away to fight another day and you will be stronger.

    //i think nothing much PR can do now…. just pack and say.. “We will be back…!!!” Let BN have Perak. Let them dig themselves deeper into the hole.

    //I agree that PR should let the matter rest and leave now as everyone knows they had been stab in the back and snatched from them. The Rakyat knows and Perakians will not forget.

    //Now its, BN + Police + State Secretary + Sultan + Bar Council (Ambiga) agst the Rakyat – RESPECT FOR THE SULTAN”S ORDER IS VERY IMPORTANT!

    //Go back to your camps to lick your wounds. Learn from the Chinese kung fu films……lose this round…learns more tricks…stay close and intimate to Rakyat and then when GE 13 comes….victory is yours. Cool down now. Fight another day!

    =====

    //Thank you YAB Dato’ IR Nizar. You have ‘fought’ well. You are the very few individuals that we can look up to as a role model. A true Malaysian, Perakian and in actual fact the true servant of HRH of Sultan. Not those ’snakes’ who rather see Perak in ruins for their own interest.

    //To Ah Jib, Yes, you take over Perak, don’t forget your rating sink even more because of your illegal means. Soon you will be the Most-Rotten & disgraceful PM in the history of Malaysia. Like George Bush. Despise by the world including his countrymen. Got a gift of a shoe before he stepped down.

    //Prediction of 13th state GE results in Perak: Pakatan 59 B end 0 – and Najib (N) is definately “the last PM” (R.A.H.M.A.N) – Now Perak is having “27 YBs + 4 YTs” (YT = Yang Terkutuk) and Sultan Perak has just C4ed the democracy in Perak

    =====

    //Sampai hati Sultan mengkhianati Rakyat sendiri. Sebelum ni, Rakyat benci UMNO/BN. Janganlah sampai SULTAN pun dibenci oleh RAKYAT sendiri. Dulu orang Cina DAP sahaja disalahkan kerana tidak taat pada sultan. TAPI SEKARANG???

  374. “….The devil tempted her with millions and she agreed to exchange it for her “soul”.
    Not only she sold her “soul” but she too absconded those voters hope as well.
    She even tarnished the image of all those handicap fellas in this country.
    The chinese believed that there are 18 levels in hell.
    So for traitor Yee! with the millions that you’ve gained from your action, I hope that you could bring along all of those fortunes of yours, to bribe your way down, till your time comes.” – Thor

    If it is indeed true that she has acquired millions under such circumstances, then she will not be able to enjoy those millions as Chinese believe that one will have to endure painful sufferings to waste away all such ill gotten gain, e.g. from serious illnesses, bad luck, misfortunes in the family and etc.

    Congratulations to Hee for having earned herself a permanent spot in Malaysian history, a name that every rakyat will remember for many generations to come, a name that every rakyat will show extreme disgust!!!

  375. “The word respect to the royalty has no place in relation to taking the ruler to court” -Loh said February 7th, 2009 at 19: 22.28

    A Ruler/Judge incurring a debt and not paying it to the bnak/creditor or a committing a civil crime should be taken to court because here Ruler/Judge himself is “disrespecting” institution of Monarchy/Judiciary.

    It is more difficult when a Monarch exercised a constitutional duty and made a call that is widely perceived wrong or even bias – just as in the case when a Judge in exercise of judicial function decides a case which is wrong in law or facts , can one sue either the Monarch or the Judge for making a wrong call in the exercise of their lawful functions (given no human being is infallible)? I agree this is especially a problem when the person who made wrong call –whether monarch or Supreme/Federal Court has no higher authority above him to correct his wrong decision.

    However there must be more than 1 way to skin a cat, isn’t it?
    Don’t get me wrong : I am not saying PR takes what is happening in Perak lying down. It should respond but respond in a way that makes sense serving of its interest than the opposite.

    Response that makes sense would include for example taking the case for judicial review but naming parties other than Royalty (exercising constitutional function). Its not that PR will win the case. Case takes years besides no one is certain Courts will decide in PR’s favour : its more symbolic to demonstrate that PR does not yield or concede to unconstitutional takeover of the Perak State Govt that may be necessary for other counter actions like the one suggested by Nik Aziz ie PAS (and maybe perhaps other Opposition parties or their states) do not recognise Perak new state govt.

    However I don’t take its very smart to sue Royalty that may be twisted by the other side against PR as elaborated by shah pinang in posting February 7th, 2009 at 21: 36.21

    I am not sure that its even smart for Nizar to continue “running” the state as 2nd “shadow” MB from MB’s residence without pay, car, recognition by Fed Govt, trying to schediule appointments with investors and consultants who won’t be seeing him.

    How long can this pathetic charade go on without damage to one’s dignity? It doesn’t mean that if Nizar were not doing all this, he is necessarily conceding the constitutionality of the coup. There are other ways to make a point : ceertainly not the extreme and thoughtless way of returning the Datoship/title to the Sultan, as suggested by Godfather, which makes it personal…and may be (again) twisted by the other side as a slight/insult to Royalty Institution.

  376. Typo error in 2nd para above rectifioed in capitals : ” Ruler/Judge incurring a debt and not paying it to the bANk/creditor or a committing A CRIME should be taken to court because here Ruler/Judge himself is “disrespecting” institution of Monarchy/Judiciary.” Sorry.

  380. What ever allowed under the laws may not be right to do because of moral issue e.g. many countries allow prostitution and gambling (Malaysia allows gambling too), but that does not mean that it is the right thing to do or advisable to do!!!
    Similarly, even the law didn’t disallow for party hopping but it is not the right thing to do when it is going against the interest of the Rakyat!!!
    Najis is blaming PR for starting the hopping thing, but BN had done this many many times before this!!!

  381. I forsee the exponential down fall of BN!!! A righteous govt wont be using the same dirty tactics as it claimed to grap power from a legitimate govt!!!
    Rakyat should vote all BN out, this is the last thing they can do!!!

  383. Looks like someone from Pakatan FINALLY voiced what I have been saying all along!

    Karpal has asked Anwar to step down and that “Pakatan Rakyat needed another leader, a good leader”. He also lashed out at PKR and DAP leaders who had fallen sway to Anwar’s rhetoric in supporting crossovers of elected representatives.

    As the saying goes: “so you reap, so…”

  385. A similar incident which happened in 1966 had a hearing in the court. The judge said: …..In Sarawak, it seems to me that a Chief Minister may advise a dissolution, even though he has not as yet lost the confidence of Council Negri. In such circumstances, the Governor’s refusal to dissolve might be conventionally unconstitutional, although not illegal.”

    The mild disagreement got Stephen Kalong Ningkam reinstated.

    A similar observation will give Perak voters a chance to express their reactions to kataks. His Highness could still claim that he was legally correct, in keeping with his standing as expert in law.

    If Pakatan Rakyat is prevented from taking the case to court, it proves only that the country has moved backward from what had been achieved in 1966. The ministers who claim to base on rule of law to run the country are actively prompting party members to take the case to the streets. That could be the reason why they are afraid of facing fresh election in Perak.

  386. Looks like Malaysia has yet to achieve real political maturity. I thought we had it on March 8. But with the coup de’tat in Perak, looks like not. I believe Nizar should vacate the MB’s office for now. PR shud then go all out to win the two coming by-elections.

    And winning in these 2 by-elections would then show all and sundry that those in power should not usurp and destroy the constitutional and democratic processes in the country.

Leave a Reply