The Bukit Antarabangsa landslide disaster yesterday, claiming at least five lives, injuring at least 15 and dislocating thousands of residents after destroying 14 bungalows, is sheer criminal negligence after the Highland Towers tragedy which killed 48 people 15 years ago.
Clearly, the lessons of the Highland Towers tragedy 15 years ago have not been learnt by anyone, least of all the various government agencies, whether at the federal, state or local government level.
The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi yesterday lamented that “Malaysians never want to learnt from past experiences” – “They want good views while developers only seek to profit; but no one takes safety and soil stability into consideration”.
Conspicuously absent from Abdullah’s blame list are the various government agencies and authorities who should be even more culpable in giving approvals or closing an eye to dangerous hillside developments and in totally ignoring the lessons of the Highland Towers tragedy 15 years ago.
I visited the site of the Bukit Antarabangsa landslide tragedy this morning together with several DAP MPs – Dr. Tan Seng Giaw (Kepong), Fong Kui Lun (Bukit Bintang), Lim Lip Eng (Segambut), Teo Nie Ching (Serdang) – Selangor State Exco Member Ean Yong Hian Wah (Seri Kembangan) and Lee Ying Ha (Teratai) and I was shocked that the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Datuk Ong Ka Chuan had still to make his appearance at the site although it was more than 24 hours after the tragedy.
When the Highland Towers tragedy occurred on Dec. 11, 1993, the then Housing and Local Government Minister, Datuk Dr. Ting Chew Peh, was immediately on the scene and stayed for hours. Where is Ong Ka Chuan?
Parliament must prove its relevance by having an immediate debate on why the lessons of the Highland Towers tragedy 15 years ago have not been learnt or the Bukit Antarabangsa landslide disaster yesterday would not have happened.
MPs from both the Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat should speak loud end clear in Parliament on Wednesday to express their condemnation of the criminal negligence which had failed to learn from the Highland Towers tragedy to prevent the Bukit Antarabangsa landslide disaster yesterday.
I call on Ka Chdua to work with the Works Minister and the Environment Minister to present a ministerial statement on the Bukit Antarabangsa landslide tragedy in Parliament when MPs reconvene on Wednesday and to ensure that his ministerial statement is followed by a full parliamentary debate.
A Royal Commission of Inquiry should be established to inquire not only into the Bukit Antarabangsa landslide tragedy, but even more important, why the lessons of the Highland Towers tragedy 15 years ago have not been learnt by all the parties concerned, including the federal, state and local government authorities as to prevent yesterday’s tragedy from happening.
From google earth you can see the massive development of HILLSIDE from Ampang , BT Antara Bangsa to Taman Melawati . Inspite of tragedy ,warning and reminder the HILLSIDE development still continue . This is the nature of human greed . What a sad story for Malaysia.
tak apa tak apa….once in 15 years..tak apa…$$ first ok??
Whenever an accident happened, the ministers would say a few words, and then they forget (or refuse) to do the job with time. Experts should be called to investigate, not the politicians.
Another disaster ,another ” tidak apa attitude “,this is the common thing in “bolehland ” Our ministers only act when there is a disaster or a fatal accident happened.I would like to qoute a chinese proverb ” only starting to build a toilet when you want to shit “.This is the typical example of our political leaders mentality.And this mind-set of these YBs have been going on since independence day.We want change and solution but none is coming from our UMNO/BN government.Why is it so difficult for these present core of YBs to change and find solution to improve and prevent disaster or fatal accicents to happen under their watch ?.Come on YBs,what do you want,then only you will do your job properly ?.
Uncle Lim, this is the price that Malaysians have to pay for putting their faith in UMNO/BN.
And they have done so for more than five decades and the price they have been paying has been enormous and getting to be more so with every passing day.
Just look at Medan Damansara. The development there on steep slopes have caused landslides and damage to the houses below.
Yet the developers have insisted on carrying on. And surprising, City Hall is on their side.
It’s a tragedy waiting to happen!
Isn’t it time for Malaysians to do their utmost to have a change of government?
Haven’t you and I suffered enough?
For the past five decades?
nah… ‘statistics’ shows that the % of hillside housing projects is low comparing to other housing developments in bolehland (also compared to hk, jp & sg) and the probability of occurrence is every 15 years, thus low, again. we just need to manage our perception.
hello, LIFE! our people’s lives are less important than greedy developers’ earnings. sad. my condolence to the families of the victims who lost their lives in this incidence.
What is the rational to approve CF when we have such issues later on? Did our Government authorities double check safety as their first priority? Or was it based on “La La Li Tang Pong?”
Please visit Block B at Lake View Apartment, Pandan Perdana. Kuala Lumpur. Just walk up the stairs and look at the cracks, be it on the walls or on the floor! If this building collapses one day, who will take up this responsibility of people dead/injured? The Irresponsible Developer? MPAJ? The YB? WHO???
Until this day, I am yet to get an answer. I have also written to MPAJ, Exco of Land & YB for my area. It seems to me that the person who is having the last laugh is the developer. I am sure they will still drive to work with their Mercedes even if they do decide to settle this issue later on.
I just cannot understand what is the “FORCE” behind this rational – A government officer who can make the right decision to help the people who are victims of irresponsible developers but instead prefer to take another cause of action
Why protect the irresponsible developer party when they can do the alternative?
Anyone who are victims of abusive developers, please tell us your story
Jackie
///The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi yesterday lamented that “Malaysians never want to learnt from past experiences” – “They want good views while developers only seek to profit; but no one takes safety and soil stability into consideration”.///
PM AAB should first specify who did not learn from the past, the developer or the government?
The developers were assured that their responsibilities end with selling their buildings. The developer of the Highland Towers which fell in 1993 did not compensate the owners of the dwelling units. One wonders whether the insurance taken out for the building covered such risks.
Why should owners of the dwelling units be blamed for buying dwelling units which have been approved by the government for construction, and certified by the government as fit for occupation? The government should have made the developers take responsibilities for mishaps caused by “act of God”, by Samy Vellu’s standard. The developers would then have to ensure that the hillside projects they planned would satisfy the evidence of insurability required by insurance company. That would make developers realize that they cannot carry out flight by night business. The directive against approving hillside projects would not work to prevent future tragedies; it would only make the developers pay a higher price for project approval.
“What is the rational to approve CF when we have such issues later on? Did our Government authorities double check safety as their first priority? Or was it based on “La La Li Tang Pong?”
Please visit Block B at Lake View Apartment, Pandan Perdana. Kuala Lumpur. Just walk up the stairs and look at the cracks, be it on the walls or on the floor! If this building collapses one day, who will take up this responsibility of people dead/injured? The Irresponsible Developer? MPAJ? The YB? WHO??? ” – Wahai Kawan
I believe that the CFO has been replaced by the CCC (Certificate of Completion & Compliance) since 2007, issued by the developer’s architect or engineer (place whatever reliance you can on this cosy arrangement!)
I think that the only recourse you have would be to take legal action against the developer.
As for the local authorities, they seem to have “iron-clad” local authority laws to protect them from any legal action for wrong doing. The Highland Towers case was a very good example.
The courts held them to be immune from legal action because fines against them could deplete the council’s coffers.
What is surprising is that no action was taken against the council staff for wrong doing! Sending these miscreants to jail would definitely not deplete the government’s coffers one wit!
Perhaps someone should do something about this.
I think local authorities should be held accountable and the laws changed to make this clear and to ensure judges are not unduly influenced.
However people who own land on designated slopes (say more than 20degrees) should be charged a slope tax that will pay for proper maintenance and drainage.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/12/malaysiakini-and-our-man-made-tragedies.html
One more tragedy making it the fourth on slopes and highlands. The Prime Minister blames everybody including the victims, what a heartless person whom we consider as “Mr Nice Guy”. If only it had been built in a better place. If only professions had some heart when the project started; no they only care for profits which is certainly not wrong and please just be honest. If only the government has been more proactive to study ALL the slopes and highlands and of course all government buildings and do proper maintenance. If only … All sorts of human decisions, corruptions etc. contributed to this tragedy but it was nevertheless a natural disaster – nature gone awry – and some even claimed, an “act of God”. Where was God when the slope collapsed? Where was he when the people were trapped inside the home? God was there on the ground in his people suffering along with them. The tragedy unites the people: strangers and and people of all races coming forward to help the victims, some losing son,daughter, mother, father, brother and sister. My condolences to the victims of the families who belong to all the major races, the Chinese, the Malay and also the Indian.
Damocles Says:
Today at 16: 21.22 (49 minutes ago)
Dear Damocles,
While I agree with you at the above, allow me to say this.
There is no limitation for criminal negligence! There is no laws to protect irresponsible developers that causes death. I believe the Government has made it very clear – someone went to jail & all those developers (whether direct or indirect) had lost their licenses. A price was paid.
I know I will loose with legal cost with these irresponsible developers but for your info:-
i) Tempoh kecacatan untuk harta bersama kecuali struktur bangunan, pemaju dikehendaki membaikinya dalam tempoh 1 tahun selepas penyerahan kunci.
ii) Jika ia melibatkan struktur bangunan tiada tempoh kecacatan.
iii) Jika selepas tempoh 1 tahun tiada tempoh tersebut, untuk membaiki kerosakan harta bersama hendaklah diajukan kepada pengurusan bangunan sekarang
Number (ii) remains effective.
That’s the question I am asking whether it is safe to occupy at this area and to this date, I have not been given any answers yet!!!
I am not asking for compensation or seeking any in return. As a citizen, I think I am entitle to seek government authorities such as MPAJ, or my YB constituent and Exco of Land to verify the safety of this building. That’s the least they can do for the people to promote safety!
We are moving to a fully develop country with laws that supports the rule of law, against any oppression, victimization, abuse…. In any manner! Sad to hear your legal constrains confined for home owners on this issue that moves us back to a 3rd world undeveloped country.
I know I can’t beat them in this legal aspect but I am sure in hell I will let the whole world knows what they stand for!
And believe me, there is no laws that protect any businesses if that business is found to be negligent in nature and in particular cases where it causes innocent lives to be lost.
They are talking about banning hillside development. Are politicians conveniently omitting mountainside development. One such serious and furious mountainside development is going on near the old trunk road of seremban and mantin. Last week that is the first time I saw a flood cutting off half the road on a hill side. LKS can you do something?
Layman like us are confused… how many agencies are there who are involved in approval of these projects? Which of these agencies are directly under the authority of state government and which are under the federal?
Pak lah’s recent satement expressing hope that the state government would not simply approve any of the projects seems to be more political driven rather than rakyat-centric.
Najib finally called for review on all hillside projects and he claimed that Ikram would do a good job, but he did not forget to turn the public attention to the responsibility of the state government.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/13866-najib-calls-for-review-on-all-hill-slope-projects
The question is whether were there any lobbying in these projects which were being approved before 308 an what are we going to do about it? (obviously everyone know there are…) Does the state government has any authority or control over agencies like Ikram which play a crucial role in these projects?
Now the Pm and Dpm are skillfully turning this to their advantage and conveniently blame the PR government for the mistakes they themselves are responsible for. I believe the current PR government cannot afford to be negligent on this, because the rakyat in their pain would allow their emotion to cloud the focus and begin to turn their anger towards the wrong party. Hense the current government would again become a victim, just like what happened to so many other cases before. Too much is at stake here.
Here’s a recent case about Taman Melawati. The residents have formed an association and opposed any hillside project in this area. However, projects continued regardless of strong objection. Residents were told that the current government cannot do anything about this since the development were being approved by the previous government.
I remember reading somewhere in Uncle Lim’s posting in the past warning the rampant developments going on in this area, but again this kind of warning would usually go unnoticed until some serious accidents happened. Now is the time for the state government to do something about it…
please refer to the following for details:
http://www.savetamanmelawatihill.com/
Yes, Malaysians never learnt from their past experiences.
This is the result of greed arising from the massive corruption involving the officers from govt. approving authorities as well as the developers. You need two hands to clap anyway.
Those officers in authority must have the safety and welfare of those residents living around high risks areas at heart.
This shoddy and dubious approval must be put to a STOP immediately. There must be political will and commitment and appropriate laws enacted to ensure responsiblity and accountability does not stop when govt. officers responsible for approving hillside and mountainside development are transferred or retired.
Additionally, the developers have to be held accountable even when the company folds up. The long arm of the law have to be used and heavy penalties imposed. Otherwise who cares as long as I pocket the money now.
The immediate action to be taken by the DBKL, Majlis Perbandaran and Town Councils is to set up authoritative committees comprising independent experts sitting in these committees. They should be held responsible and accountable for their decisions and minuted accordingly. Once a decision made for a development order to be given, these committee members cannot run away from the decision made.
Secondly, DBKL and Majlis Perbandaran and local councils must set up monitoring teams with personnel having knowledge on causes of hillside management to monitor the high risk areas all over the country. They must make periodic reports for review.
This is the time to take responsible and transparent actions relating to hillside development lest we will get more serious consequences and loss of lives in the future. The time is NOW !
Find that evidence of criminal negligence needed and charge all those concerned.
If the lawyers could not find evidence ofcriminal negligence in the acts of all those concerned – from architects to engineers and to corrupt officials and greedy developers – it is not difficult to find breaches of the common law duty of care.
After the Highland Towers tragedy, Parliament should have introduced legislation to make it easier for families of the victims to prove negligence. Parliament should have come strongly on the side of public interest. Public interest is not served in maintaining affordability of homes at any cost. If land is short, then solutions lie elsewhere. The problem of shortage of land cannot be solved by the lowering of safety standards. There is a price to be paid when lives are lost.
There should be a fund into which developers should be required by law to pay into, that could be used to compensate for the loss of lives. This should not be a problem to developers with deep pockets – and most are.
The fact that some of these are acts of God, it does not make human suffering any less severe.
Prevention is better than cure. While I note the good intentions by the new ruling Selangor government, may I know what measures has been taken for those houses or apartments/condos that has already been build and going to be approved by the municipal council such as MPAJ? My question is whether the bad condition was discussed & transferred???
I have a concern because the apartment I bought shows cracks all over. It’s at Block B, Pandan Perdana Lake View Apartment, K.L. I have written to MPAJ, Land Exco & my constituent YB to ask the safety condition of this building but to date, no answers has been given.
I have proof of letters & emails from MPAJ copied to the Yang Dipertua Dato Mohammad Yacob to show that at initial stage, MPAJ hold the developer responsible and then later confirms the other as the management has been transferred from the developer owned management team to a new entity.
One thing is confirmed by MPAJ – Jika ia melibatkan struktur bangunan tiada tempoh kecacatan.
Now that’s the question I am asking!
If the structure is Ok, then it is safe for me to occupy and as such, if the building collapses one day, we know who to send the bill to!
I hope you can agree prevention is better than cure! We should have programs to check the living ones instead of praying for the lost ones.
We should have MPAJ who are at tax payers cost to have preventive measures!!! A responsible body to protect the people!!!
It’s time for all of us to remember what is the price the society will pay when we have irresponsible developers along with a group of complacent Corporate Governance Officers around!!!
Wahai Kawan, at no time did I say that legal action cannot be taken against the developers.
I quote from what I wrote above:
“I think that the only recourse you have would be to take legal action against the developer.” – Damocles
The above was what I wrote. Please read my posting again.
I also wrote that the local councils are protected by council laws. And this was evident in the judgement in the Highland Towers case.
“If the structure is Ok, then it is safe for me to occupy and as such, if the building collapses one day, we know who to send the bill to” wahai kawan
If the building collapses one day, you wouldn’t be around to send the bill !!
If the building were to collapse, count on the developer to point their finger at God. They cannot be made responsible for acts of God. No insurance company anywhere in the world would provide cover for God.
I noticed that many who posted their comments do not seem to be aware that the hill side development that are on going or about to take place have been approved by the previous government.
It is also heartening that the Selangor government under PKR had immediately issued instructions not to entertain any developers for hill slopes above a certain degree of steepness.
It is also a fact that the developers’ association wanted to have this ban lifted but was unsuccessful.
So, if any of you really, I mean REALLY want a government that means business, cast your vote for the PR!
It’s that simple.
The longer any Malaysians voted for UMNO/BN, the longer we will all suffer, in every aspect of our life!
Just ponder that!
FY Lim Says:
Today at 19: 18.42 (1 hour ago)
“Yes, Malaysians never learnt from their past experiences.”
No. Malaysians like everybody else learn but are slow learners. They will learn the lessons, one lesson at a time but at what cost to human life?
In the meantime buyers would do well to take heed and rely more on caveat emptor. But like I said earlier, caveat emptor is not always available as a legal defense to errant developers because structural defects may be latent.
Could these structures have withstood the landslips had they been stronger and structurally sound? Granted the developer cannot be made responsible for acts of God?
With the Federal Court ruling that the approving authorities are not liable in the Highland Tower case, catastrophe like this will continue in Malaysia!!!
Acts of God? So what are you gonna say to the taxi driver…
http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=2099985188&view=att&th=11e0d59d96b9feb1&attid=0.1&disp=inline&zw
Ong Ka Chuan missing in action in this tragedy and he careless about his ministerial functions after rumors saying he has resigned his minister post. Hence, he absent from the scene and enjoying his holiday somewhere. He showed a very bad leadership example for MCA. Maybe Ka Chuan is kecik hati when he lost his deputy president post to Chua Soi Lek. What a shame ?
Now waiting PM, Najib declared no more permits for hillside projects. Do you believe him? This statements of no more permits were voiced out many times since the HIGHLAND TOWER claimed 48 innocent lives but many hillside projects permits were given out over the years under BN leaders to greedy developers.
Hahahahaahahaha…Malaysians are fed up and angry with the political bullshits from the irresponsible politicians from past state govt but luckily it is timely PKR teams took over Selangor government to do the clean up jobs and shits.
The landslide disasters are Act of Human Greed and nothing to do with Act of GOD since greedy human failed to learn past lessons and continued to support the greedy developers in destroying the hills and mountains. Who to blame now ? Human negligences for cause and effect is the main reason for their action in taking high risk on their own lives. Blame no one but oneself for their ignorances, arrogances, kiasu and kiasi behaviors. Act of GOD is compassion for giving rain and sun for human survival today.
Don’t always blame GOD for everything that goes wrong, he’s not gonna like it. He’ll scream back! :D
When you can’t explain something, you then attribute it to an ‘act of God. Since God has no lawyer to answer the allegation for him, we’ll never know!
We, Ampang residents are very sad and angry to read in THE Star’s published “AMPANG’S HILL OF DEATH’ on Sunday, 7 Dec 2008 is indeed highlighted that Ampang is a bad feng shui area with deadly hills surrounding the entire vicinity of Ampang. Such bad publicity and comments will definitely hit the properties’ prices and image of residents staying in entire Ampang area. We sincerely hope that THE STAR should be more responsible in their reporting and telling the true picture here. The journalist and editor should quote : ” Bukit Antarabangsa’s Hill of Death”‘ is more appropriate and more accurate. Ampang residents protest and seek more explanation from The Star for the said article. We sincerely hope that YB Uncle LKS will take up this article matter with the management and the editor of The Star to correct it and also seeking apology to the Ampang residents if necessary.
We are not playing politic here but we want the media to be more responsible to publish a sensational new without hurting the feeling of the Ampang communities. We are sure YB Jenice Lee, YB Azmin Ali and MP Pandan, YB Ong Tee Keat and other MPs and ADUNs representing Ampang and Pandan areas will agree with the above comments and complains. Welll, please advice The Star to clarify and explain in their next new in the paper or the website.
From:-
Ampang Residents and Foreign International Communities of Ampang
No doubt the Authorities concerned should be blamed for ‘approving’ the project/s but wouldn’t those buyers be equally responsible for wanting to build or purchase those houses at such site? After the Highlands dissater, I happened to meet a structural consultant who did some of the hill-slope projects; hence I asked him if he himself would buy a house at such location? He just smiled without committing himself?
Likewise when a friend seeked my opinion because her family specialist doctor advised that her son should have the tonsillitis removed, just because of his sore throat! My advice was, ask the doctor, would he remove his childrens’ tonsillitis for the same reason? And if, he hesitated, then don’t take his advice!!
She did just that and saved herself the cost and the pain of her son.
Malaysians in this Bolehland can only pay lip-services and comments to all sorts of issue raised but would act against whatever protest they have voiced when they think they could make a kill! Just look at those projects they would protest in KL and PJ and soon enough when the politicians and their cronies forced them through, buyers would just appear!!
So why all the protest? Many literally asked for it! I am sure, a simple survey will show similiar projects are being under construction around the country.
And ‘act of god’ explanation is Samy’s ingenious way to ‘tutup cerita’ many cases of landslides damaging roads and highways.
Mr Lim,
A good friend of mine parished in the highland tower tragedy.The Government promised to give priority on safety procedure and prevent another incident like this to happen.Who is to blame for this mishap now.Our Prime Minister blamed everybody except himselfe.The UMNO politicians are taking advantage of the situation trying to gain political mileage in time of misery highliting themselves in the controlled media to get prominence.Are these people sincerely sorry for what misery befallen the victims?Only property one has in this incident is gone and may not be replaced.Who is to compensate the victims?I beleive in justice and somebody has to pay for it.
And Musa Hitam said…the government never learn from the Highland Tower Tragedy….where Musa lost his son and son’s wife.
Yes..even at this sad sad event….Dollah did not say one word..to blame he government.
He only said…all housing projects on hills or hill slopes.. to be stopped.
Why were so many been approved…after Highland Tower tragedy?
Is that not…hoping Malaysians can easily forget and start all over again?
Did it ever occur to Dollah…to use his final few weeks to investigate who approved all these?
Surely Toyo will be first under suspect.
Why don’t he do one thing good…before he leave.
This wayang kulit show by munafiks have gone on too long and too far.
Anybody remember the Sampong Department Store collapse that occurred in Seoul, South Korea in June 29 1995.This is the largest peacetime disaster in South Korea resulting in 501 deaths and 937 injured.
Here we have a meticulous,technically knowledgeable and professionally superb team of investigations who have after months of investigation reached the conclusion that it was the deliberate use of substandard material,poor standard of engineering practices and government corruption that has led to the collapse.
The result of the trial:Lee Joon the chairman of the building got 10 years for negligence (he kept changing building plans and bribing his way to get them approved),his son,the store’s president got 7 years for the same charge,city officials dispatched to oversee the construction were found to have been bribed
into concealing the illegal changes and poor construction of the building including the chief administrator of the district for approving.Other executives of the store were also charged for complicity and the construction company for completing the building.Altogether there must be at least 20 people found guilty and punished according to the extent of their involvement in causing the collapse.
But most importantly it has opened up to the public the extent of corrupt practices amongst city officials.Sounds familiar isn’t it but the saving grace inthis whole episode is that they have an independent judiciary upholding public interest.
YOU don’t mess with nature. And those who mess with nature don’t usually pay. Instead, as in yesterday’s tragedy at the Bukit Antarabangsa area, the homeowners and their families pay for it, some with their lives. Act of Human negligence is a heavy price to pay with their lives since God had reminded human to keep the mother of nature intact and not destroying the environment and do not pollute the air and water.
Today human continued to destroy and pollute the green lungs, rivers, hills and mountains are main reasons for the changes of climate and temperature of the earth. Eventually cause and effect of climate changes will cause danger to human lives from many natural disasters like floods, landslides, earthquakes, etc. Similar human greed and corrupt practices in enforcement authorities with the culprit developers are also contributed to such man made disasters.
Lastly, Malaysians and its leaders never learnt from past disasters but close one eye when comes to money for billions housing projects. When comes to ringgit and sen matter, what disasters will happen are forgotten forever ? A dirty politcian said “I make huge profits, You Die is your own biz as long as I make money from many hillside luxury projects”.
Malaysia is a BOLEHLand – all boleh approve as long as you are cash rich today. What HighLand Tower disaster was a past historical story ? Why worry? Boleh Die Die lah…Act of GOD !!
waterfrontcoolie Says:
Yesterday at 23: 58.24
“No doubt the Authorities concerned should be blamed for ‘approving’ the project/s but wouldn’t those buyers be equally responsible for wanting to build or purchase those houses at such site?”
So it is that old caveat emptor defense to the rescue! It is not that simple.
The only reason why you show no empathy here is because you do not have relatives who died in the tragedies.
We must be clear as to what we’re talking about. Is it the location i.e. it being on a hill side (inviting a disaster to happen) or is it because the developer should have foreseen the disaster that could come with landslides and not take measures to safeguard against such landslides. There are enough legal concepts out there to fix liability on the shoulders of the developer and the relevant agencies – be it common law negligence or statutory negligence.
In a worse case scenario, the line that separates negligence from criminal negligence is but a very thin line.
Absent negligence, and in case of doubt, our courts should come on the side of the small man and protect them from large corporations and vested interests. You cannot just say ‘Caveat Emptor’. How much are we odinary folks expected to know about architecture and engineering and geology, soil conditions etc?
Government has a role to play here. Perhaps a general ban on hillside development ?
How do you define ‘an act of God’??
If you were to throw a stone in the air along Jln. Masjid India and if it falls and breaks the head of a litigation lawyer, are we to think that it is God showing his wrath at these lawyers who prefer to represent their developer clients rather than the small man??
Normally if we follow strictly according to the best engineering practices plus
the fact nobody who are supposed to approve such buildings can be persuaded to ‘close one eye’ to approve the unapprovable,nothing approaching the ‘sort of slope failure’ frequency in Malaysia can occur.Building buildings on hill slopes is no rocket science.It is simply strict adherence to good engineering practices.
Absent corruption and fraud and even negligence, is it not reasonably forseeable that landslides will occur over time? Knowing the danger from lanslides shouldn’t hill slope developments be stopped immeidiately?
Some developers even have the audacity to consider legal action against the state government of Selangor for their blanket ban on hillside development. It shows how strong vested interests are working both from inside the government and on the outside against the state government. Nobody is denying them their constitutional right but is it not time for stringent conditions be placed on their licenses? If it is not economical for them to level the land for development then perhaps they should not have invested in such lands. They got them cheap because they are hilly and hard to develop. Why then go on to make exorbitant profits at the risk of losing lives?
If they are reckless as to what might happen in the event of landslides and the risk they present to life and property, then they are criminally negligent – and should be charged for it.
According to rumours….every 10 house..shoplot built….one is free to the top man in UMNO…approving the project.
Or even more..if that place is difficult to get approval…yet it is approved..such as tin mine land…hill slopes projects.
This is the common rumour…even small contractors know.
These does not bother the Chinese…as huge profits is still there for them.
Vicinities with towers houses will collapse…….sooner or later..at sloppy areas….where the contents of soil are actually not suitable for developments. No .they will cut off all the tress and tell buyers.what nice place to live…looking at he whole of the city….at such cheap prices too!!
Actually..those are forest land…and dirt cheap to buy..by these crooks…per acre.
Glad Anwar did not succeed in taking over the government.
Let UMNO keep bribing to make him fail…..as Allah …in HIS mysterious ways…are exposing to Malaysians… to do their patriotic duties…with their might votes.
Malaysians will finish corruptions and ISA…by finishing UMNO…..next election.
They can reduce the oil by RM1…tomorrow..we will not be fooled by that…as it is their duty to do so.
They can announce few good news…to fool us.
Lives lost cannot be replaced by these good news.
Dear Uncle Lim
I understand from The Star Online posting that housing developers have agreed to carry out soil stability tests following the landslide at Bukit Antarabangsa. However, I’m very concerned on housing areas which developers like MBF are no longer operational. So who will be looking into these housing areas to ensure that it’s safe to live in? I’m a houseowner of Taman Bukit Utama and right in front of my house (facing Oakleaf Condominum), the cliff shows some minor landslides and I believed most of our houses in that area have very visible cracks in our house. Who’s looking into our welfare? As of now, we’ve been forced to move out of our houses, leaving our cars and belongings behind not knowing if there’s proper police patrolling the area. As far as I know, there’s lot of illegal immigrants living in the forest reserved right behind our houses and they might be taking this oppportunity to break in.
Please do help us.
In India, a former British colony, the Home Minister has to resign as a result of the Mumbai attack. The tragedy at Bkt Antarabangsa, after Highland Towers and a series of other landslides in the area calls for accountability and those responsible in approving development in hill slope areas in the vicinity should be brought to justice.
In China, those guilty that caused such catastrophic proportions will be shot right at the head.
Perhaps, we should haul up those responsible in approving such development at hill slopes in the area and charge them in court accordingly.
We should emulate Penang State Government’s competency, accountability and transparency policy. If BN government were to adhere to this principle after being given the mandate to rule since 1970s, such tragedy would not happen.
As Malaysia is always good in finding the root causes in everything, it is time to find the root causes for such landslides. Please do not blame God. It is not the act of God but the greed of men.
After so much death and destruction from such development, it seems that the developers and those who approved such projects still don’t seem to realise that our hills are made mainly of mud.
There may be some big boulders embeded in the soil but basically it’s just mud.
It doesn’t take rocket science to know that no amount of safety measures will help to stop landslides under such circumstances. Especially when the hill is both steep and high.
Whatever action taken will prove to be puny compared to the tonnes of mud pushing against the barrier.
There is only one way to stop such tragedies and that is to ban all such developments including those that have been approved and pending development.
It’s far better than to let these projects go on and result in death, destruction and regrets.
“Government has a role to play here. Perhaps a general ban on hillside development ?” – Undergrad2
Undergrad2, don’t underestimate the power of the developers’ lobby. And the fact that this is Malaysia where the not so possible can become very possible under the right circumstances!
The fact that the local councils have iron-clad laws to protect themselves from any blame from mishaps from their action also helps to perpetuate the situation.
Removing such laws will definitely reduce such mishaps.
Do you think that the UMNO/BN government will do it?
I have a photo of how some areas in the PEAK area of HK look like. Here one can also observe hill-slopes that have markings so that maintenance records can be checked.
But then that is a developed territory.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/12/malaysiakini-and-alarming-news-after.html
It is a blessing that PR government is in charge and perhaps now we will be able to find out the WHY/HOW some doubtful projects were approved.
Another RCI? How many RCIs have we had in the past? Nothing was done after the results of the RCIs were published.
The PM & DPM are blaming Malaysians for forgetting & “never learning”?! What a joke!
Don’t forget there was also another Express Bus accident that has claimed another 10 lives!!!!! Yet another case of Malaysians forgetting?!
As long as the Corrupted BN Govt is in power, we will continue too see “disasters” like this!!!!!
Now a lot of us just hope that the largest component that makes up the Malaysian community will wake up from their slumber and be able too see clearly who have been responsible for the endless scandals ,failures,tragedies that have besieged the country for decades.It is time now to reverse this unfortunate trend that has caused the whole nation to degenerate in almost every field.
These disasters are already in the making when local and government agencies approved developers plans for expansion and development in high risks areas years ago.
Like what the 80 years gentleman said in The Star paper yesterday, do you think that the politicians will do anything to correct the situation? If they have the conscience to do so, they would have stop all hill development projects years ago and not repeating the same story now.
Or to some, saying nothing at all.
“is it not reasonably forseeable that landslides will occur over time”
Landslides are reasonably foreseeable, as is the probability that one will not occur.
Hillside and even cliff-face construction is not at all unreasonable. Soil surveys, certification, competent engineers and good quality materials all cost money. The reason Malaysians are dying in these tragedies is not because you don’t have soil survey companies, not because you have corrupt certification, not because you have unusually unpredictable hills, and not because you don’t have competent engineers. Malaysians die in these tragedies because it’s simply cheaper for developers to kill Malaysians than it is to do their jobs properly.
The reason hillslide collapse deaths are less common in modern societies has nothing to do with more highly skilled engineers or better quality materials. Harming another person carries unbearably heavy financial penalties in a modern society. It is almost impossible to avoid paying penalties in a modern society once applied, so members of modern societies simply try very hard to avoid harming others. Legislate all you like, but if you don’t guarantee loss of cash, these deaths will continue to happen.
These landslide tragedies are good analogies of how UMNO is ruling this country. Malaysia has collapsed in terms of its economy, education system, racial and religious harmony, and international stature.
OrangRojak,
I don’t think I’ll agree with you fully when you say Malaysia does not have competent engineers but however on second thought you could be right too.The competent ones have probably migrated getting real cheesed off by the ever sickening political situation they have to put up with.Equally damning is als that there are people who can be persuaded to close one eye to approve the unapprovable!
The consumer can act to prevent such tragedies from happening again and again; DO NOT BUY HOUSES on hill slopes or on foothills where the hills have been cut and built. Especially so DO NOT BUY APARTMENTS in multi storied buildings on hill slopes. If few people buy such properties, developers will not build.
Our hills are unlike those in Greece and Italy where there is no soil and the buildings are sitting on rock.
What about buildings already built? Is it fair to ask other rate payers to bear the cost of taking preventive measures? If my house leaks and gets attacked by termites, can I ask the town council to repair it for me?
I am sure many people the statue ‘Christ The Redeemer’ with its outstretched hands blessing the city of Rio de Janeiro.A fantastic piece of engieering that it is named recently as the New 7 Wonders of the World.
A little bit of facts on this statue:
(a) It sits at the peak of Corcovado Mountain, 2,330 ft (710m).Most of our hill slope developments is not even half as high!
(b) The statue is 125 ft (38m)
(c) The statue has a weight of 700 mtons.
(d) It’s the tallest statue of its kind in the world.
(e) Construction material—reinforced concrete and soapstone, stonestone being used at its outer layer due to its good resistance to weathering.
(f) Local enginner,Heitor da Silver Coste, designed the statue and Paul Landowski,a French monument sculptor of Polish origin,sculpted the statue.
(g) Took 9 years for completion.
The statue was struck by a lightning during a violent electric storm on Sunday,Feb10,2008.The storm caused havoc in Rio with fallen trees everywhere in several neighbourhoods but the statue was left unscathed because the material chosen for its outer layer is an insulator.
How come Malaysia’s hill slope buildings are coming down like ten pins with regularity and not elsewhere?
One Malaysia is not following the best engineering practices.Two there are people who can be persuaded to close one eye to approve the unapprovable.Third,the most important reason.At the end of whatever investigation here,nobody is found guilty—not enough evidence.
should be ‘I am sure……….mant people know the statue ‘Christ The Redeemer’
…………………………………city of Rio de Janeiro.’.
Indeed malaysian didnt learn from Highland Tower’s case. After that case, there appearred a profession called building surveyor. After the incident, the press brought up the need of Building Surveyors to be involvoed in all building built on hills, not neglecting also, on lands. But look at the present, this profession still not recognised, not even having its own Act. If you’re sick, u won’t go and find a a vet, if u need to build a house, u won’t go and find a fashion designer. Similarly, in this construction industry, building surveyors have roles to play. Unfortunately, ‘people’ neglected them. Who to blame?
Malaysia produces how many hundreds of building surveyors each year. How many involved in the public sector now? less than 10! how many private BS firms in Malaysia, less than 5! Where is the awareness? Life is precious, not something you can play about. When there’s such need for this profession, why cant it be ALIVE in Malaysia
Indeed malaysian didnt learn from Highland Tower’s case. After that case, there appearred a profession called building surveyor. After the incident, the press brought up the need of Building Surveyors to be involvoed in all building built on hills, not neglecting also, on lands. But look at the present, this profession still not recognised, not even having its own Act. If you’re sick, u won’t go and find a a vet, if u need to build a house, u won’t go and find a fashion designer. Similarly, in this construction industry, building surveyors have roles to play. Unfortunately, ‘people’ neglected them. Who to blame?
Malaysia produces how many hundreds of building surveyors each year. How many involved in the public sector now? less than 10! how many private BS firms in Malaysia, less than 5! Where is the awareness? Life is precious, not something you can play about. When there’s such need for this profession, why cant it be ALIVE in Malaysia???
@Ah Pek, my apologies, I didn’t mean to imply any of those things were lacking in Malaysia. I might have been writing in British again, or perhaps the double-negative sounded better in my head than it reads on a screen.
Perhaps it’s not even British… a good friend of mine from a ‘posh’ family in the UK suggested before I came to Malaysia that I “could always teach Estuary English”. I’m not always understood in the UK either!
I don’t think we need to go so far as an RCI into these matters.
Did anyone truly believe that things would change after the Highland Towers tragedy? Only the naive, the ignorant and the deluded.
Now that Selangor is under the control of PR i think MORE can be done than JUST calling for an RCI.
/// AhPek Says:
Yesterday at 13: 57.17
How come Malaysia’s hill slope buildings are coming down like ten pins with regularity and not elsewhere? ///
AhPek ah, so simple one you oso dunno. Different geology and topograhy. If you built on a granite hill or mountain, you don’t even need any foundation and it can last forever. But if you build on a hill without much rock base, then you will need strong foundations.
I think in Malaysia’s case, the likely cause is really developers and engineers cutting corner by not putting in the necessary foundation works – gentle gradients, ground anchors, weep holes, adequate pilings, proper drainage systems, etc. Heck, the whole of Marina Square and the new Marina Bay (where the Marina Bay Sands casino is being built), and the whole stretch of East Coast Parkway and all the high-rise buildings along Marine Parade Road in Singapore are all built on reclaim land. These are jelly-like land compared to the virgin lands in Antarabangsa/Ampang. The critical difference is that proper foundations were installed when buildings are put up on reclaimed land in Singapore.
Action should be taken against the previous government as well as the developers concerned as someone blamed the developers gave pressure to the local authorities.
You guess who said that.
Acts of God. Acts of God. Acts of God. Yes. Why didnt I think of it before!!
Acts of God. That is what it is all about!
See it water problem.
Rain water.
The water came from the sky.
I mean … rain water could not have come pouring out suddenly from riverbeds and the oceans.
They come from …. yes the sky.
And who lives up in the sky?
… yes God.
But I wonder why God does a thing like that.