The Perak Mentri Besar, Datuk Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin’s agreement and announcement that the “Free MP Teresa Kok Perak State Assembly Caucus” would be formed tomorrow to lend support, sympathy and solidarity to MP for Seputeh and Selangor Senior Exco Teresa Kok in her fifth day of detention under the Internal Security Act is one major stride forward for the cause of human rights for Malaysians and legislators.
Following a day after the establishment of the “Free MP Teresa Kok Parliamentary Caucus” yesterday, I call on all states to emulate this pioneering step of the Perak Mentri Besar and State Assembly members to be in the forefront to defend human rights by forming similar “Free MP Teresa Kok State Assembly Caucus” as all legislators, regardless of race, religion or party affiliation, whether at the national or state level, should find common cause in the demand for the immediate and unconditional release of Teresa Kok under the ISA.
When attending the inaugural meeting to establish the “Free MP Teresa Kok Parliamentary Caucus” in Parliament yesterday, Senator Datuk Zaid Ibrahim who had resigned from the Cabinet as a matter of principle in protest against the gross misuse of ISA against Teresa Kok, Raja Petra Kamaruddin and Sin Chew reporter Tan Hoon Cheng, said he disbelieved allegations that she was either anti-Malay or anti-Islam as her detractors alleged.
Zaid had personal acquaintance with Teresa Kok when she was the secretary in the ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Caucus on Myanmar (AIPMC). Zaid was then AIPMC Chairman.
Zaid said:
Teresa Kok is a third-term MP and I dare say that every Minister in the current Cabinet, whether from UMNO or any other Barisan Nasional component party, would agree with Zaid’s description of Teresa.
I challenge any Minister who would disagree with Zaid’s verdict that Teresa is a “wonderful lady” whom nobody believes could be “anti-Islam, anti-Malay, anti-anything” to come forward to speak up.
If there is none, and every Cabinet Minister in his or her “heart of hearts” agree with Zaid in his description of Teresa, I challenge everyone of the Cabinet Ministers to explain to the Malaysian public why Teresa Kok should spend another minute languishing in arbitrary, unjust and unhygienic detention!
Politics has been regarded as a very “dirty” business. If there is a saint among Malaysian politicians, the person will be Teresa Kok. And when Teresa Kok could be detained under the ISA, something is very rotten with Malaysian democracy, governance, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet.
For the “Free MP Teresa Kok Perak State Assembly Caucus” to be formed tomorrow, there is no better term of reference than to adopt University of Malaya law lecturer Azmi Sharon’s call that “The ISA must go. There can be no room for amendments.”
In his Star column today, “Time to get rid of draconian ISA”, Azmi wrote:
In this light, we can see that the powers provided by the ISA have been severely abused over the decades.
The latest example of course is the arrest of Raja Petra Kamarudin, Teresa Kok and Tan Hoon Cheng.
The reasons for the detention of the three have nothing to do at all with any sort of violent action or even proposed violent action on their part.
In the case of Tan, the justification for her 16-hour detention was so ludicrous and so obtuse, that it beggared belief.
The ISA was not meant to be used as a personal protection device. And pray tell how a 16-hour detention after which the individual was released back into the public sphere can be considered “protection”?
Raja Petra is currently being charged for criminal defamation and sedition.
He is facing the law in open court where he shall be accused and he shall have the opportunity to defend himself or he would have done if he was not locked up right now.
Why on earth is he being detained? Is he planning some sort of armed rebellion? There is no evidence at all to indicate even the slightest hint of that.
And Kok is being detained because some political opponents have decided to accuse her of offending Islam.
If these accusations are false, and there are indications that they are, then there is a term for this kind of behaviour – fitnah.
Fitnah is the most despicable crime committed only by the most despicable of creatures.
I am disgusted by the latest use of the ISA. It is undoubtedly going against the spirit and the intention of the ISA.
The arrest of Raja Petra, Kok and Tan also shows that the law is so open to abuse that we have no other choice but to get rid of it. There can be no room for amendments.
The ISA must go.
[Media Conference Statement (2) at the Perak Mentri Besar’s Office, Ipoh on Thursday, 18th September 2008 at 12 noon]
Thats good news YB Lim, but it’ll be better if Teresa can also attend the emergency meeting for next Tues. Pls assure she’s released and be physically present! It will be a big moral booster!!
Meanwhile, everyone be safe. One question YB, With the ACA report on offering bribes by PKR etc… I hope its not true. Whatever it is, be very careful while these jokers are being sort. Tell them the only bribes are only from the bookies.
Be safe. God Bless
The only reason she is being detained is because she opposes U–Must-Never-Oppose
You people got it all wrong. We detained Theresa for her own protection. It may take us 30 days or 2 years to find out who is threatening her, so you must all be patient.
Kasim Amat my bisnes partner will back me up on this matter.
When a repressive regime is bankrupt of ideas, it will resort to the “mok she yeu” (no need) tactic (like no need evidence, practised as long ago as the Song Dynasty in China) to incarcerate people or chop off their heads.
LATEST: PM: “No need for emergency session of Parliament”
( YB, NEXT COURSE OF ACTION NEEDED? )
Abdullah said four division members would be sacked from the party – three from Beaufort and one from Beluran. The four had stood as candidates for the Opposition during the general election.
There is a lot I have to say, but I will hold my peace till the change of government.
If the ISA Section 73 is not being abolished, it won’t be surprised that one day in the future the IGP or Acting IGP may deem it necessary to detain Abdullah Ahmad Badawi with ISA 73(1) on the reason that Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is the threat to the national economy or national security.
http://onlooker-openness.blogspot.com/
ISA must go!
There must be proper rule of law in this country – not the barbaric undemocratic ISA.
For too long the ruling party has used ISA as a launching pad to persecute members of the opposition party – such atrocious act of “political brutality” must be condemned in the strictest terms.
Until today, we are still protesting ISA peacefully. Congratulations.
Sorryla BN, your dream will never come through, bygone Mei 13.
BN is now keeping ISA for themselves to be detained later for safety reason.
Syed Hamid will be the first person to apply for protection under ISA. Idiot.
Well said, Azmi Sharon. Kudos and congratulation for standing up for principles and impartiality.
You have displayed the same kind of humanism and universally commendable conduct as that of Zaid Ibrahim that is so blindingly lacking in most of the leaders of political parties here.
It is hoped that the masses would be kindled to realise that in their midst is a piece of draconian and archaic legislation which need to be repealed.
How do you go about having it abolished? Can the electorate demand their representatives to review and take measures to rid it?
It seems like the Act had been abused for personal rather than its original purposes.
The comedy is being played.
While individuals who are not regarded by most Malaysians as threat to national security or peace are incarcerated under ISA, the key player who uttered the racist remark is enjoying freedom and appointed as the Bukit Bendera Umno division’s advisor, a unanimously decision of the four wings of the Bukit Bendera Umno division.
Furthermore, the Bukit Bendera Umno division will file an appeal to the Umno Supreme Council to retract the decision to suspend Ahmad Ismail from all party posts for three years.
Ha, ha – what a harsh punishment given out to AIsmail! Umno is fair to all, so claimed Umnoputras.
Statement of the century
“There can be no room for amendments. The ISA must go. ” ..Azmi Sharon
Many many are in deed sadden after reading what Datuk Zaid has to say about Teresa Kok. All this while there is no mistake take majority of the Malaysian believe that ISA has been misused to its fullest by the executive. There is no reason that there is any threat pose by the opposition, if any the existing law are more than enough to deal with. We all Malaysian are really sad and there fore many many wish to see changes and there are many reason about this wish but non is due to anti this and that, all we want is a just and fair society and for the good of All Malaysian.It is that simple.
YB Teresa Kok was arrested under ISA on “AZAN” issue by the shameless “U-Must-Never-Oppose” but upon dicovered that they have no ground to stick her with the case because even the mosque officials have come out in her support, they quickly slammed her with other issues like the “jawi’ sign board which was many months ago.
If I can remember correctly reading from NST online some months back, the raod sign boards were to be added for the purpose of Arab visitors to our city. It was about making it convinient for Arab tourists ( how many % of Arab visitors or for that matter all our visitors today STILL do not read Roman alphabets? any survey done on this before HASTILY spending away our rakyat money?) and no more & no less.
Why Syed Hamid brew it up & lumped it as a sensitive Islamic issue and forced it on YB Teresa? He is in fact the culprit who has been arousing religious sensitivity & causing racial tension to double cross our Malay friends & Chinese community. Shame Shame Shame on him!!!!!
We demand YB Teresa Kok to be released IMMEDIATELY with full damages!
916 belum dapat menjadi kenyataan pun tak apa, sekurang-kurangnya kita boleh lihat sebelah Pakatan Rakyat menjadi semakin kuat. Dengan keputusan SAPP tarik keluar daripada BN, sekarang kita ada 82+2 di parlimen, sebulan lagi selepas pilihanraya kecil di sabah, kita akan tambah 1 lagi menjadi 85! Mari kita berdoa kepada Tuhan yang maha esa, semoga apa yang kita impikan tetap menjadi kenyataan tidak lama lagi.
YB LKS, can DAP please do something to show to the people of Malaysia that both of the party can really work together?
Everybody knows that YB Teresa was incarcerated to appease the UMNO extremists who were angered by the slap in the wrist three-year suspension of UMNO membership of the Racist Rat AhMAD Ismail. No matter what the UMNO Putra extremists plan, scheme or propose only the good God will dispose as HE will dispense justice & do goodness in his mysterious ways. HE will show HIS grace, favour & mercy to the Righteous YB Teresa & HE will at the same time cause suffering & downfall to all the evil people responsible for her detention. HE has good plans for YB Teresa. Be patient YB Teresa & keep on praying.
Siapa yang telah berFITNAH sehingga Terasa Kok ditahan dibawah ISA? Sebenarnya orang yang berfitnah itulah yang sepatutnya ditangkap. kenapa tangkap Teresa…..kurang siuman agaknya.
allegedly the Toyo monkey is the one who instigated this. Shouldn’t the opposition scream and yell for this gross injustice? Debating this sitting down is not going to solve the problem.
Can anyone help here? I have some questions.
1. In an Umno Supreme Council meeting or any General Umno meeting, can they make, change, launch any Acts, Policies, in relating to Federal or Country’s Laws?
2. Would it be right to say, Umno and their croonies will benefit first hand information and weight upon what’s in it for them first before it is passed?
3. Would other alliance Dogs party MCA, GERAKAN, MIC be invited to their meetings?
Pls enlighten me on this? Thanks
the jawi signboards are important – not because they benefit arabs – rather replacing the signboards cost money. Money to be spent by the government on cronies and minister linked companies…go figure
Not ONE elected BN MPs attented the “Free MP Teresa Kok Parliamentary Caucus” yesterday.
I’m shocked to have learned that many of MPs inside Barisan National are actually CHRISTIANS!
How can these supposedly God fearing leaders as light & salt to the world be willing to BLINDLY yoked with an arrogant, bullying, haughty ruling coalition inflicting unjust pain & grieve to innocent people & their families? (Psalm 1:1-3)
No wonder Jesus forewarned us that there are wolves who dress themselves in sheepskins to come & deceive us for their own personal gains!
All other God fearing & people loving Christians let us pray that the Holy Spirit will personally speak to these Christian BN MPs that they can humbly turn from their wicked way & let the light of righteousness shines upon the people. Let justice prevails in this land.Amen!
Hi Everyone!
Latest News @ 7.30pm (18th Sept. 2008). PM Abdullah has refused Pakatan Rakyat’s call for a Emergency Parliament Session latest on Tuesday (23rd Sept. 2008).
Uncle Lim Kit Siang, I guess you are now travelling back to Kuala Lumpur to attend an urgent top Pakatan Leadership meeting in response to PM Abdullah refusal to call for an Emergency Parliament Session.
Next option on the Table? ( I cannot and do not know what to speculate)
However, my faith in the Pakatan Rakyat’s claim of ready to form a New Government shoots to 100% again.
(1) PM Abdullah refusal to meet DS Anwar Ibrahim
(2) PM Abdullah refusal to call for an emergency Parliament session
Has by hours proving Anwar’s claim being stronger and stronger
PM Abdullah (who believes that Anwar is bluffing) has missed TWO GOLDEN OPPORTUNITIES to PROVE THAT ANWAR IS BLUFFING
(1) Which in the case Anwar fails to show the latest lists of MPs on Pakatan Rakyat’s side should PM Abdullah grants a meeting with DS. Anwar.
AND
(2) Which Pakatan led emergency motion of no-confidence in the Parliament fails to sustain a majority.
AND
This is nice- all my friends- PM Abdullah is only serving Pakatan Rakyat’s victory into greater strength and height in which more MPs are defecting by “the hours”. Subsequently, a new Pakatan Rakyat Government will have more MPs in the Parliament than of the number of MPs three days ago.
PM Abdullah being a Prime Minister of All Malaysians should be responsible and graceful enough for the sake of the nation and the rakyat. PM Abdullah should end this political “State of Limbo” once and for all. Focus on rebuilding UMNO and BARISAN NASIONAL to win the hearts and minds of the Rakyat in the next General Election instead on hanging onto a Parliamentary Minority support and only to be disgracefully discharge from the Prime Minister Office.
OR
At least SHOW US PROOF THAT ANWAR IBRAHIM IS A LIAR and BURY ANWAR’S POLITICAL CAREER FOREVER just like what YB Khairy Jamaludin has suggested in the recent Permatang Pauh By-Election. Mere accusation of words and laughters that ANWAR IBRAHIM IS LYING and branding ANWAR IBRAHIM being a threat to economy and national security does not convince the public that ANWAR is a liar.
A DANGEROUS OPPOSITION LEADER LIKE ANWAR as claimed by PM Abdullah has only put PM Abdullah on the responsibilty being the Prime Minister to expose the lies and snares of ANWAR.
Unfortunately, PM Abdullah has just MISSED TWO GOLDEN OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SO IN THE LAST 48 hours OR PM Abdullah has just successfully clinged on to power for another 48 hours (because he has even lost faith in himself as the commander of the majority of MPs).
No matter what. I urge PM Abdullah to release YB Teresa Kok, Raja Petra and publicly apologize to Sin Chew’ reporter Tan immediately to win the hearts and the minds of the rakyat and in the process, possibly courting a few Pakatan MPs to join BN? Given the fact that BN has just officially lost 2 MPs yesterday.
I quote this from Malaysiakini
[Polis: Jangan buat spekulasi ambil alih kuasa
Sep 18, 08 4:45pm
Timbalan Ketua Polis Negara, Tan Sri Ismail Omar hari ini memberi amaran keras kepada mereka yang membuat spekulasi dan menyebarkan khabar angin mengenai peralihan kuasa dalam kerajaan.
Beliau berkata, spekulasi tersebut telah mengakibatkan ketidakstabilan dalam negara.
Ismail memberi amaran tersebut ketika bercakap kepada wartawan dalam satu sidang akhbar di Bukit Aman petang ini.
Kini. usaha Pakatan Rakyat pimpinan Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim untuk mengambil alih kuasa menjadi perbualan hangat di negara ini.]
Dear all, this was the way the 13th of May is happening. I didn’t receive any SMS(s) concerning the toppling of government by certain party. It is the Timbalan Ketua Polis Negara that send this ‘legal SMS'(The above news release). What a stupid TKPN is he? How can he announce such provoking statement publicly? If there is any, I meant ANY riot happening in Malaysia, it will be this people started. God Bless Malaysia.
As of 2007, there are five one-party communist nations:
Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea)
Republic of Cuba
Lao People’s Democratic Republic (Laos)
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
People’s Republic of China
Perhaps the TKPN should check with the 4th floor amno boys about the SMS instead of warning the general public.
, I share your view on the police officer. :)
If Teresa Kok is a pawn detained to please the extremist elements in Umno for the wrist slap on Ahmad Ismail, the BN govt is digging its own grave.
Racism used to be a zero sum game. When you appease one race, you lose support of other races.
But with better education and maturity, racism is now a negative sum game to those playing it. You gain minimal support from the race you try to appease while losing a groundswell of support from other races.
If changeover of power doesn’t happen in the short term, BN will definitely be buried in the next election.
looks like pak lah checkmated DSAI as DSAI do not have the signed SD’s of the bn MP’s to show the king as they have only given their verbal commitment!
never mind as there’s the 1013 opening of parliament to move the motion of no-confidence BUT put in the motion now!
also put in the motion to abolish the ISA, and let’s see who votes against it.
better to late than never.
YB Lim,
Can we pool our money together and rent advertising space on an elevated billboard on busy highway?
The billboard will have Teresa’s picture, the words “FREE TERESA KOK, victim of ISA injustice and a web address where the truth can be told.
It’s unusual and never done before but we need innovative ways to free Teresa. Appealing to those in power only fall on deaf ears.
How long do you think the govt will hold out when such a billboard goes up?
Whatever it cost is worth it to free Teresa so that she does not stay an extra day in that stinking windowless cell fed on food unfit for humans.
I believe the required amount will be collected in a very short time.
Please consider it, YB Lim. Parliamentary caucus and meeting the police is good but unlikely to secure her release. We need to think outside the box.
When can Teresa Kok be released??? Sad to know that she is placed in a room at size 6 x 8 sq only. Terrible! PR please take over the government soonest possible so that ISA detaines can release ASAP.
From the response that Abdullah gave to Anwar it shows that he is very stupid. If I were him I would have accepted Anwar’s offer.
This is a golden opportunity for Abdullah to consign Anwar into the dustbin of history if Anwar cannot prove his claim. Anwar is giving Abdullah a silver bullet to kill him if he is bluffing. But instead of thinking, Abdullah prefers to run away and turns the whole issue into another circus.
Still Anwar was patient and offer Abdullah another chance for him to damage Anwar’s reputation. But still his brain cannot function and he refused. Why?
Will Anwar extend the third bullet to Abdullah to kill him? Go to the Agong and submit the proof. If this attempt is still blocked then, it prove that what Anwar had claimed was true – he got the numbers.
Three silver bullets and still this idiot Bodowi miss the opportunity of a lifetime!
Where are the loudmouths from MCA and Gerakan? Talk is cheap. Both of you are as guilty as those who put Teresa under ISA detention on some filmsy allegations. Cant you stand up for what is right and what is wrong irrespective of your political allegiance. Do you still enjoy the master/slave kind of relationship with Umno.
All right thinking Malaysians irrespective of race and religion are sickened by the abusive use of law to intimitade those brave men and women who hold dissenting views. We have also not forgotten those bravehearts beside Teresa detained under ISA. God help us!
YB Lim,
Another idea which you may want to consider. This one has no cost or preparation needed and can be implemented immediately.
YB Lim can issue a statement that if the govt needs a political pawn to appease the extremist elements in Umno for the “punishment” meted out to Ahmad Ismail, then YB Lim Kit Siang offers to take her place in ISA detention.
Of course the govt will not agree but will be shocked and jarred by your announcement. It drives home the point that Teresa’s detention is totally without basis and heighten public outrage.
Public outrage is the only thing which can free Teresa quickly like what happened with Tan Boon Cheng.
One ancient chinese saying which reads,”Yi Chee Ren Ze Dou,Whan Zhi Chee Ren Ze Shen.”It simply means: do onto him what he does onto others.Just wait the day when PR is in power,people like the stupid proponent of providing protection using ISA and his other gang members will languish in the 8 X 6 cell until they see their Allah.I think a lot of people in Malaysia now want this to happen to the bast..ds.
When Syed Albar speaks, he makes a fool of himself.No wonder foreigners looked down on malaysian ministers.Supposedly to be a qualified lawyer.Worse still, our judiciary is now ranked 7 out of 10 in asia,worse than the communist Vietnam.
Zaid is the man! I salute him very much.
God bless Teresa Kok and this country!
It is now so obvious that Anwar is having the numbers.
If not, he will not ask for the emergency session.
Unless he wants to squeeze some humour in all of us, but April Fools’ day was already 5 months ago…
So, Be scared UMNO…Be very very scared.
The following petition has been initiated. Please let others know.
Petition to Free Raja Petra Kamaruddin, Teresa Kok and Others Held Under the Internal Security Act
http://www.petitiononline.com/isa1234/petition.html
A thought just came to my mind. Could it be that this obtuse Home Minister brilliantly arrested MP Teresa Kok under ISA intention is to draw the public’s ire against instigator Mat Toyol (if you remember Mat Toyol supported Mahathir’s call for Pak Lah’s resignation)? This would bring a situation where the call for Mat Toyol’s punishment will bring a clash between Teresa’s supporters and Mat Toyol’s Malay supporters.
We must be careful not to be used as pawns by these vile creatures.
I’m not sure if I’m over-rating Syed Alpa.
Dear Dr. W,
It makes more sense to think that the current turn of events indicates that Anwar does NOT have the numbers.
You might be interested in reading an insightful article taken from The Malaysian Insider.
‘A master stroke in buying time
Analysis
SEPT 18 – You got to hand it to Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Two days after he missed his self-imposed deadline of forcing the collapse of the Abdullah administration through the cross over of Barisan Nasional MPs and seemed in danger of swapping credibility for ridicule, he has managed to put the
government on the defensive. And probably buy himself some more time.
Today, he challenged Datuk Seri Abdullah Badawi to convene an emergency Parliament sitting before Sept 23 so that a motion of no-confidence can be tabled against the Prime Minister.
“We have the numbers. If he wants the details and doesn’t believe me, then convene the emergency sitting. The numbers are increasing by the hour. But as of now, it is in excess of 31 MPs. This is not empty talk,” Anwar said during a press conference today, adding that Abdullah has no choice but to negotiate with Pakatan Rakyat.
This is the first time since Independence that a sitting PM is being asked to convene a special Parliament session to have a motion of no-confidence tabled against him.
Anwar knows that Abdullah will not take the bait and will probably tell the Opposition leader to be patient and wait for
Oct 13 when the House reconvenes.
This answer will:
# GIVE him the time he needs to work the ground and try and persuade some MPs to abandon BN for Pakatan Rakyat. Anwar has been meeting professionals, businessmen, a few former MPs and even members of some prominent Umno families in the past week asking them to join Parti Keadilan Rakyat. He has told a few of them that he has the numbers but was unwilling to share any names of the BN crossovers with them. Some of them have left the meetings – which have taken place at his home in Segambut or at the home of mutual friends – convinced that he does not have 31 BN MPs in his pocket. Others have been willing to give him the benefit of doubt.
# ALLOW him to portray the Abdullah administration as cowardly and unwilling to follow democratic practices. He said as much today noting that any delay to the request for an emergency Parliament session would be seen “as nothing short of a further sabotage of the democratic process and abuse of executive power.”
# KEEP alive the prospect of the mass crossover and collapse of the Barisan Nasional. Sure, some seeds of doubt have taken root in the minds of people since the Sept 16 deadline came and went.’ But in a country where hope in the government is a fast fading commodity, the public still want to believe that Anwar – who has fashioned himself as
the saviour of the country can deliver on a promise.
The Opposition icon knows that failure to deliver 31 MPs and oust Abdullah and BN out of Parliament will hurt him in the court of public opinion. His latest challenge to Abdullah suggests that he needs more time to get the numbers.’
YB Lim,
This might sound bad. I suggest you advise Teresa parents & relatives to put pressure on the Deputy IGP for her release. Make daily visits to Bukit Aman to see the Deputy IGP…make a big ‘hoo hah’ out of it. Invite the press along. Do whatever to make sure everyday the deputy IGP see Teresa parents face !!!!!
i suggest all christian MPs in the Govt make a plea to the PM to release Teresa Kok as she has done no wrong. How can she be detained under ISA. I am sure all of you are God fearing and know in the depths of your heart that this is wrong. Even ZI was brave enough to take a stand.Please search your hearts and think of this sister of ours. I can only say to you “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and suffers the loss of his own soul’. Please don’t think of material gain but your christian duty to a fellow human being who has been terribly wronged.
Also stretch your hands out too and ask for the release of Raja Petra and the Hindraf detaineers.
Dear ppl, Just found this piece of ‘GEM’
Don’t just beoieved me, read it for yourself.
Its all here.. Can someone pls help to forward this to MCA, GERAKAN, MIC pls? Thanks
M’siakini
“The time is now”
Steve Oh | Sep 18, 08 6:10pm
I do not think it helps Opposition Leader Anwar Ibrahim or incumbent Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and more importantly the country for there to be a political stalemate, for whatever reason. If there is one outstanding feature of events leading up to September 16, it has been the responsible and peaceful way that Anwar and associates have carried out their plans and for this they earn our respect.
MCPX
Perhaps we expected Anwar to walk up to Abdullah and tap him on the shoulder on September 16 and see the latter shake his hands and concede the handover of power and pass the keys to Putrajaya to him. But it does not happen like that in real life. Nor do those who espouse justice rely on scary vociferous mobs wielding those dangerous weapons.
I imagine the process of change we all wait for with bated breath will not happen along the written lines of a script. There are many landmines to step over and it will not be a gunfight at OK Coral where everything ends in a few minutes. But I am sure everything will be done legally and time will tell who really upholds the rule of law.
The exemplary manner in which Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Zaid Ibrahim has taken his stand must be emulated by all politicians. As far as I know, this man has talked a lot of sense and tried his best to bring about reforms within Umno and failed.
It takes a giant of a man to admit he has failed and bold leaders to admit their failures. Even Dr Mahathir Mohamad admitted his failure to change the mindset of the Malays when he was in government and for anointing the architect of his sleepless nights and restless days while planning his ousting.
Rather than play cat and mouse, the defecting politicians themselves must show their true colours and boldness in coming out into the open to support Anwar and confirm that he has the numbers to form the government. It is not the time to be coy about something as important as this and people will respect those who are honest and upfront.
Make a firm stand on who you support and sink or swim with your decision.
Those who have chosen must help those who have not to do the right thing. After all, I have made up my mind who I will vote for in the next election and I am not afraid to tell you it won’t be for those who lock up the innocent in jail.
You are not a traitor or immoral in deciding to cross over to justice. Pakatan politicians didn’t think it immoral to cross over to Barisan Nasional as we have seen Ezam Noor and other Pakatan members do. You can’t do worse but that’s my opinion and it is a free country.
In a free country, members of parliament are not beholden to anyone except those who put them in power and the interests of their country. It is not immoral to rebel against the party line when you no longer have confidence in your party. It is called conscience. It would be immoral, hypocritical and unconscionable to remain in a party you no longer believe in or support those you no longer have confidence in. Zaid has set a good and right example.
People who talk about the morality of the present crisis of crossovers miss the bigger picture that this is an unusual and unprecedented situation. And there are always exceptions to the rule. Whatever misgivings we may have, Anwar has promised that there will be a fresh election to get an unequivocal mandate and wisely so when we know the phantom voters are really dead and can’t vote.
For the first time in the country’s history, there is the possibility of toppling of the Umno-led government which many Malaysians now reject and that Mahathir himself derides as “a rotten government”. It goes to show how a party staying in power for too long can become.
That Anwar has given ample notice of the plan for politicians to cross over meant Pakatan Rakyat had been as open and transparent to the public as practically possible. That 40-odd Barisan MPs were hurriedly sent overseas on a junket tells us Anwar wasn’t just blowing hot air. Soon we will know the truth and who tells the “political lie”, though one has a better record than the other.
The unusual situation is also highlighted by the unprecedented attrition of support for incumbent PM Abdullah. He has had his former boss take snipes at him and working toward his downfall and the latest resignation of Zaid, the one that both sides of the political divide and many Malaysians respect, must seem like Abdullah may need to take a premature involuntary redundancy sooner than he planned. Anwar has persistently said he has the numbers and is now going through the process of getting the incumbent to concede defeat.
We have seen Robert Mugabe losing his grip on power in Zimbabwe now that agreement has been reached for him to be president and his rival Morgan Tsvangira become prime minister. Despite the violence, police brutality and killings, tyranny had to make way for the people’s will.
The arrogant and stubborn one-time nationalist knows compromise is the wise option when the writing is on the wall and time is not on your side. In Malaysia, the mood of the people is for change and it is a bitter lesson that Umno is still unwilling to learn.
It is the sickness that afflicts all who have held tyrannical power, from kings to politicians who often come from poverty to taste power and can’t seem to relinquish it when the time comes. From the Indian maharajahs to the last emperor of China who was prepared to betray his own country and people to become sovereign of a puppet country run by the Japanese, weak men have stubbornly refused to give up the throne of power and may even betray their country and cause trouble.
Nothing that Pakatan has done so far is immoral or unconstitutional.
Those who defend text book notions of political morality where the crossovers are concerned may be unfairly pedantic. If the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way round, surely it would be immoral to allow a discordant and incompetent administration in disarray and evidently incapable of reform and giving the people what they want, the moral right to govern when they no longer have the numbers.
And it makes no sense to talk of morality when you are facing an opponent which seems to show none. The incumbent government abuses its power and the police are so evidently partial toward them to justify their immoral acts such as the recent ISA arrests and tampering with police witnesses.
When Barisan component parties are already talking about pulling out of their political alliance and fight among themselves like dogs and cats you’d be silly not to be trying to forge new alliances and re-configure the political network to get into power.
It might sound facetious but what is to prevent PM Abdullah himself joining Pakatan Rakyat with his merry men of constrained reformers so they have a free hand to bring about the desired reforms in the country?
You would have a win-win situation with PM Abdullah still holding on to his coveted post but spending much of his time overseas to build bridges with other countries, something that few can do as well as he.
Anwar and his men and women can then carry on with the onerous task of cleaning up 22 years of mistakes and misdemeanours. By then, Mahathir would have rejoined Umno and being the capable politician he is and having much practice, he would be the ideal opposition leader and no one can boast of having held both posts in the country except his black-eyed ghost from the past. Then perhaps some of us who want to keep the government decent and honest might even support him.
Sadly the time for day-dreaming is not now and the day of reckoning must surely be nigh.
When Gerakan won a whopping majority in 1969 and became a formidable political force, they were seduced into the Barisan. The rest is history. Many of the political alliances were the result of change and crossovers so we should stop debating a non-issue.
Politicians are elected to serve their constituency not their political party. The real immorality is enslaving our elected representatives and coercing them to obey the party so thay can’t properly serve their constituencies or properly debate bills like in the recent DNA bill scam.
Every political party knows that their elected members owe them no allegiance beyond what they can do for them. Sometimes we see certain politicians passed over and in the next elections, they stand against their party as independents. We don’t see much of that in Malaysia because of the undemocratic manner that political parties conduct their business. There are more party serfs useful for their obligatory numbers to form government than people’s representatives.
But in a truly transparent and democratic government that Pakatan promises, they will get a new lease of real political life. Imagine, freedom for our politicians. Who would have thought? So, crossovers are not only good for the people but for the politicians themselves because they are crossing over to the political promised land so to speak, to escape from the repressive pharaoh.
Anwar has already parted the river. What more do we need?
Zaid has set the benchmark for politicians of conscience. It is up to others to follow and prove they are undeniably unafraid to stand up for the rakyat whom they serve and for their principles, as he has. September 2008 or whenever the time for change has come. So what are we waiting for?
bolihland is under house arrest. Roadblocks just started at brim of the city.
the threat is from the bee end regime who are afraid of losing the mandate to rule and cheat further.
The Malaysians are to afraid to speak their mind. I had a quick browse of the petition and saw that some people still dared not put down their full name. What a shame!
I admired the Ukrainians with their Yellow Revolution and the Berliners who cracked down the walls. Our people will never do this. They are so afraid!
The whole Government system had gone down the drain.From the police, ACA ,court of law right up to the local councils.Innocent people are locked up.While the guilty walks free.This two bigots AHMAD and KHIR TOYOL are clearly guilty in stroking racial setiments.But TERESA and TAN are arressted.
merdeka,
making daily visits to see the Deputy IGP will not work. What makes you think the IGP will even see Teresa’s parents?
As Ken G said, innovative methods must be use. I hope YB Lim consider his suggestions.
to Perak Menteri Besar
Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin,
keep up the good job. A lot of Perakians are starting to support you.
Be patient, be very patient,
Everyone just do our best and
God will do the rest.
Stay focus, Do not let up.
Be resolved, God never fail!
Dear YB Lim and all my Buddist, Hindus frens,
I am a Muslim, I just can’t understand from which angle the BN
idiot noted that YB Teresa whether orally or physically act against
Islam.
Its very cleared that not YB Teresa are against Islam, but what the
UMNO/BN does are.
My regards and sympathy for YB Teresa and those under ISA.
http://www.kerajaanrakyat.com/
I think one reason why so many MPs can’t be bold and open in their conscience is because many of them have too many skeletons in their closet. They can’t be upright, they can speak the truth and they can’t do the right thing. Many of them have their balls held tightly by their masters. Damned, this country is corrupted to the core!
kerajaan.rakyat-
I wish they (UMNO/BN) are as clear-minded as you do.
Thanks, Wang Yen.
There are so many rumours flying around at present. The article discussed some of the possibilites.
But I chose to be optimistic and bias but not entirely groundless I hope. Judging from how Pak Lah renders himself around his dodge-ball style as a great contrast to Anwar’s open challenge.
When he refused to meet Anwar in the first place, he said that Anwar may try to make up stories. Ok, I can understand that, afterall Anwar could be too tricky for Pak Lah in a private session.
But then now, Anwar is giving them a good chance to clear the cloud. Why does Pak Lah still hide away cowardly if he is not scared? Just hold the session and find out the truth. Whether or not Anwar has the numbers, Pak Lah’s response has hurt himself as well as the government.
Just my 2 cents worth, all are welcome for healthy discussions :)
lopez,
are you sure? whereabouts are the blocks? how many did you see? I did not see any whilst driving back.
the first no-confidence motion was rejected by the house speaker (appointed by badawi).
now, a request for emergency session to table the no-confidence motion was rejected by badawi.
badawi is aware, the no-confidence vote, when put into motion, is the very time when all defecting MPs will show their face all at once, with the required numbers to kick him out of office.
so he does all he can to delay it, to buy time, with time he can hatch a plan to counter.
that’s why DSAI is beginning to put the pressure on badawi to relent to him, and he has to do it before the mahathir-muhyiddin-razaleigh clique forces badawi to relent to them.
1. I agree with Lee Wang Yen (posting at 22:32.48) that “the current turn of events indicates that Anwar does NOT have the numbers”. For if Anwar has them, he should and could show them than pussyfoot around at this juncture. Fine, he can go and see the PM, out of courtesy but if the PM does not want to see him, then he should next proceed to seek an audience with the Yang di-Pertuan Agong to prove his case. HM Yang di-Pertuan Agong is the proper avenue because under the consrtitution, one of the King’s function is to appoint the PM based on criterion that he commands the majority of Dewan Rakyat, and if that majority were eroded, the King has the implied right to revoke the appointment, dissolve parliament to pave way for fresh elections.
2. Instead of approaching the Yang di-Pertuan Agong, Anwar persisted to meet with the PM. A letter was supposedly sent by Pakatan Rakyat (PR) to the PM requesting for a meeting to discuss about a smooth power transistion. The PM however has made a public clarification that PR’s letter mentioned nothing about the crossovers and peaceful power transition, a clarification of which neither PR nor Anwar has since rebutted or contradicted!
3. Anwar instead now demands for an emergency Parliament session to debate a no-confidence motion. This makes no sense to me because firstly one does not Parliament to be in session to prove crossover ; secondly itr seems ridiculous to me that the PM should accede to such a request to convene a special parliamentary session to prove or test his own unpopularity and loss of support. Who would do a dumb thing like that? After all Anwar could effect wait for parliament to reconvene in usual time after Ramandan to prove his case. I don’t buy the argument that the PM should grant such a request for a special parliamentary session as a democratic gesture because taking over the government vis poaching of crossovers is itself not a democratic expression. The question however remains why Anwar could not go to the Istana to prove his case if he has the numbers!
4. So far Anwar has not effectively dispelled suspicions that he mmade false claims as aserted by the PM. Only Sapp pulled out of BN and then only to become an independent party rather than join PR. Even Anwar’s PR partners evince doubts : for examples PAS’s Datuk Mustapha Ali expressed doubt to Utusan Melayu that Anwar could form govt by 16/9. Even YB Kit had not shown confidence in 16/9 when he side stepped and said whether change of government tooK place in four days’ on 916, or 1016, 1116 or in an early 13th general election was a secondary question,m the more important one being “that the Malaysian political mould has been completely recast and it is only a matter of time that a transition of federal power is effected!” How could Anwar be serious in a major undertaking of a takeover of govt that even his closest coalition partners knew no details about???
The balance of the above considerations therefore favour the speculation that 9/16 is a mere expression of political brinkmanship without substance. If so Anwar has not only undermined his own credibility but that of Pakatan Rakyat as well and has been irresponsible in stimulating hopes of his supporters that he has and ought to know he has not the means of gratifying and sustaining. One such (Raja Petra) is now in ISA detention. He expressed hope to come out on 17th Sept and his hopes are dashed. He also puts the country into a phase of uncertainty. Much as I support his cause, I think it will be jeopardisedrather than advanced by such false claims.
Sorry for typo error in para 3 – “….does not REQUIRE Parliament to be in session to prove crossover ; secondly IT seems ridiculous…”
KennyGan,
‘Ken G :YB Lim can issue a statement that if the govt needs a political pawn to appease the extremist elements in Umno for the “punishment” meted out to Ahmad Ismail, then YB Lim Kit Siang offers to take her place in ISA detention.’
Govt not so stupid to admit they are appeasing the extremist elements in UMNO by accepting YB Lim’s offer !!!!!
YB Lim,
If those arrested are family members, i will make sure Bukit Aman police will see my face every day & night. I am not politician so whatver i do are not politically motivated. What i want is to ensure the safety of my family members. SIMPLE !!!!!
Dear Jeffrey,
There is a good article in The Sun today on constitutional law in Malaysia. Read that and you will understand why DSAI is doing what he’s doing. If you can’t understand then listen to or read DSAI’s press statement today. If still don’t get it then we can talk some more here. Cheers.
Jeffrey Says:
Yesterday at 23: 52.13
1. I agree with Lee Wang Yen
======================================
If you don’t mind me asking, Whats your point here?
I suppose the game is not over yet, right?
There are lots of hypothesis, I do enjoy most of your comment. Many times they are ‘bull eyes”. But this last bit here sounds like we are taken for a ride?. I don’t really know, none of us will, why and what’s the delay with DSAI, only he knows. With time, all will be known eventually.
DSAI deserve this little bit “Benefit of doubt”, you agree? This man knows exactly what the stakes are. We should give him every bit of support here. I hate to think that while the going’s get tough, we start to create doubts about our initial comitment to stay the race. We must stick together more tightly. I don’t mean you are not. On the same token, we need to continue to have faith. Never mind even if it takes longer, because Im sure you know this Goment will never surrender without giving problems. Thanks, look forward to your good input. No hard feelings buddy? Cheers
a parliament in session does not, and will not prove anything.
it is the going through of the no-confidence vote in parliament that is the crucial thing, and which DSAI calls for.
it is a sitting PM that calls for this vote of confidence in his administration, if he or she dares to try.
it is a formal procedure whereby the result of the votes is formal and binding; because he or she calls for it.
if he or she does not survive this vote, then it’s good-bye.
care to try ??
Suppose 916 did happen, more than 30 MPs left BN, UMNO conceded defeat and handover power to Pakatan Rakyat?
//It is now so obvious that Anwar is having the numbers.// Dr. W
//It makes more sense to think that the current turn of events indicates that Anwar does NOT have the numbers.//Lee Wang Yen
_____________________________________
Between Dr. W and Lee Wang Yen who is right?
The rejection of an emergency parliament session to debate a no-confidence motion by Badawi indicates that the PM believes in his heart that Anwar has the numbers.
September 16 has passed and the new dateline is October 13. Between now and October 13 Badawi is hoping that Anwar will make a wrong move like door crashing Putrajaya and give him the excuse to ISA anwar. Asking the Agung to intervence can only be justified if the Speaker of Parliament refuses to allow the motion of no confidence.
t
Well dawsheng, Yes, It will be nice unfortunately
1. DO you think they will concede?
2. Its gonna create pandemonium, I mean all hell break-loose!!!
Can you imagine so much shit all lying in office, no time to hide or clear, What about the police, Army? Not to mentioned TDM? Thats why this must really take it slow but surely. I may be wrong also. No choice really. Just have to hang in there.
h
Suppose we are now at the finale, 30 or more MPs left BN, and UMNO is not willing to let go power, will Agong then uses his divine power to overrule Malaysia? This only mean one thing, the state of emergency. But the question is, whose side the police and the army on?
Well dawsheng, Yes, It will be nice but
1. DO you think they will concede?
2. Its gonna create pandemonium, I mean all hell break-loose!!!
Can you imagine the nightmare how the looser is going to react?What about the police, Army? Not to mentioned TDM? Thats why this must really take it slow but surely. I may be wrong also. No choice really. Just have to hang in there.
Here’s the latest dawsheng,
PETALING JAYA: Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim said Pakatan Rakyat leaders will meet as soon as possible after their demand for an emergency Parliament session was rebuffed by the Prime Minister.
He said the meeting could be as soon as Saturday, or Monday.
look at another scenerio PAS joining BN /UMNO when AAB moves out from government . the same interesting theory also if DSAI joing UMNO back . in politic everything is possible.
The fact is we are not dealing with a civilized political party. When MPs defect to BN they said it is democracy but when BN MPs want to defect the say otherwise, it becomes a threat to national security. It is not just about having the numbers, isn’t it?
Anwar has better poker face than Pak Lah and Nahib combined.
dawsheng go up to this thread, read and understand, it can give you some answers to your question.
just a moment Says:
Yesterday at 23: 01.59
Dear ppl, Just found this piece of ‘GEM’
Don’t just beoieved me, read it for yourself.
Its all here.. Can someone pls help to forward this to MCA, GERAKAN, MIC pls? Thanks
M’siakini
Mr Jeffrey,
Which current turn of event so convince you that Anwar does not have the numbers. I do not believe that replacing especially this hard core racist government can take place simply by convincing the King that you have the majority on your side. I rather that Anwar takes it one step at a time, every move calculated to produce result rather than trying to bull doze himself and party in to take over. He definitely knows more than most of us. Premature revelation of his plans will allow the enemy to pre-empt him and this may be detrimental of its success. I have a feeling you may be a bit sore by not been in the inner circle but do have a little bit confidence and patience in your superiors. Whatever it is this UMNO government will have to fall and soon. It is only a matter of how soon.
Anwar has to play the game safely because our government knows no rule. Just wait and see what will happen.
m.hwang: Thank you for referring me to The Sun’s article by constitutional law expert Prof Dr Shad Saleem in this link –
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=25786
The operative provisions of the constitution on this subject for reference are:
On PM’s appointment : Article 43 (2)(a) provides that the Yang di-Pertuan Agong shall appoint as Prime Minister “a member of the House of Representatives who in his judgment is likely to command the confidence of the majority of the members of that House
Then PM’s resignation : Article 43(4) states that if the Prime Minister ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives, then, unless at his request the Yang di-Pertuan Agong dissolves Parliament, the Prime Minister shall tender the resignation of the Cabinet.
I invite you to consider the following points on assumption that you are not adverse to constitutional techicalities, normally boring to many:
· The Prof interprets that the only way that the PM’s ceasing to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Dewan Rakyat House may be ascertained is when parliament is in session and a vote of no confidence is passed. Hence Anwar is justified to require a special session of parliament to be convened for this purpose.
· I assure you that that is only the Prof’s interpretation. Nowhere in our Federal Constitution or even standing orders of parliament does it state anything about a vote of no confidence passed in a parliamentary session being required as sole determinant to ascertain that PM has ceased to command the confidence of the majority of Dewan Rakyat.
· I agree with the Prof that a vote of no confidence passed in a parliamentary session is, by parliamentary convention, a gauge/determinant of loss of majority but (since Constitution & Standing orders are silent on vote of no confidence).
· Where I disagree is Prof’s suggestion that it is the only a gauge/determinant.
· My view is that whilst it is the common and even conventional gauge/determinant when Parliament is in session, it does not preclude (in cases where Parliament is not in session) other means to prove it – like for example by showing signed documentation by defectors and aggregating all numbers and even calling the defectors to personally testify to the relevant party making the determination whether the PM has lost the majority, whether the relevant party be a court of law, the King or the Prime Minister.
· The latitude here of more than one way is because the Constitution and standing orders do not specifically mention anything about “vote of no confidence”. Had they mentioned, then I would agree that it mandates only one way to prove it and no other options.
· I am not persuaded by the Prof’s citation of what he called “a clear case” in Stephen Kalong Ningkan vs Tun Abang Haji Openg & Tawi Sli 1967. There the court ruled that once the chief minister is appointed, the governor cannot dismiss him unless the assembly passes a vote of no confidence. This is because the chief minister is not a prime minister, and the governor is not in para position similar to the Agong! One can cite the dismissal of a chief minister to argue the same for the prime minister. The fact is there is no judicial authority on this point as it aplies to our circumstances.
· My view is shared by the previous Election Commission chairman.
Oops….One CAN’T cite the dismissal of a chief minister to argue the same for the prime minister….
I wish to state that strict reliance on conventional practice based on conventional interpretation of law and constitution (ie vote of no confidence in a parliament in session) is not appropriate in Anwear’s circumstance s for following reasons:
1. Parliament is presently not in session – one has to wait until mid Oct;
2. Request for special convening of parliament will not be entertained by PM : it is PM’s prerogative to decline such convening requested;
3. In the period from now until parliament convenes in mid Oct., a clamp down or crack down (whether emergency rule or ISA) can be inititated;
4. the excuse for clampdown/crack down is that Anwar is causing uncertainty by false claims of having more than 31 defectors;
5. the clampdown/crack down is harder to justify if Anwar shows his numbers now – if he really has them – instead of pussyfooting around over constitutional interpretation;
6. but even on matter of constitutional interpretation, I have said in preceding post, that a vote of no confidence in a parliamentary session is not the only means to prove it;
7. if Anwar believes in an imminent crackdown, then it makes sense for him to resort to means (like seeing the King direct) other than waiting for a “vote of no confidence in a parliamentary session” to prove that PM has ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives within meaning of Article 43(4) of the Federal Constitution;
8. To extent that Anwar knows of the imminence & danger of a crackdown before parliament convenes in mid Oct – there being no cogent reason why he takes sucha risk – and continues to desist from resorting to the other means to prove his numbers, raises the inference and suspicion that he may not have the numbers in the first place.
Please consider this carefully.
[We have the numbers. If he wants the details and doesn’t believe me, then convene the emergency sitting.] Anwar
[For if Anwar has them, he should and could show them than pussyfoot around at this juncture.] Jeffrey
One possibility is that some of the “numbers” that Anwar has are secured with string attached. It is possible that some of the BN MPs have given their consent to join a PR Government and Not a PR Opposition. These “numbers” are willing to join whoever that form the government. In other word they are willing to call anyone their mother as long as she has milk. For this reason they have given their consent on condition that Anwar will not reveal their names until the rice is cooked. We have already seen cases of former leaders of Gerakan now working with PR state government in Penang and Selangor.
I fear that if they use the ISA on Anwar, the gloves will finally come off and there will be utter chaos. Also, if it comes to pass, then we can rest assured that BN will do or die to hold on to power. If Anwar goes in this time, I believe he will not see the light of day ever again.
Anwar insisted on 16 Sept that his refusal to reveal the names of defecting MPs was to protect them from harrassment and possible arrest.
On the face of it, this sounds plausible. But when he then said that he would disclose the list to the PM if and when they met, the ‘reason’ for not revealing the names looked more like a bad excuse. If revealing the names before meeting the PM risks exposing them to harrassment and even arrest, what makes us think that revealing them to the PM in the meeting won’t incur the same risk? The PM can always say that he needs to consider the ‘offer’ for a few days and then ‘deal with’ those MPs in that period.
Yesterday, two PAS leaders said that the names of defectors were announced in a meeting last Sunday. But they went on to say that the list was incomplete – that they were only shown some big names rather than a full list of all defectors.
So it seems that Anwar does have some defectors but either does not have the required number to form a government or does not have a Muslim-Malay majority list of defectors.
Dear Kanthanboy,
There seems to be a problem in your suggestion. If these MPs’ support are conditional upon PR’s success in forming a new government, how are they going to ascertain or assess whether this condition has been fulfilled ?
You suggest that they don’t want their names to be revealed until ‘the rice is cooked’. If what you mean by ‘the rice is cooked’ is a new government being formed, then this will end up in a deadlock – the rice can’t be cooked (i.e. the new government can’t be formed) before the names of the defectors are revealed.
You might disagree with my claim that a new government can’t be formed before the names of the defectors are revealed. You may think that the defecting MPs can secretly vote against the PM in the no-confidence vote without prior exposure of their identities. However, this goes against your thesis that the support of these MPs for any party (PR or BN) is conditional on the success of that party to form a new government. The no-confidence vote comes before any party succeeds in forming a NEW government. By your thesis, they cannot support PR or BN in the no-confidence vote since none of these two parties have succeeded in forming a new government at that juncture.
You may say that their support is conditional on their judgement of whichever party is most likely to form a new government. But how are they going to assess whether PR is more likely to form a new government? Anwar may have shown to a defecting MP the signed documents of other defecting MPs. This is possible. But doesn’t this go against the defecting MPs’ request to keep their names secret until they are confident that PR is more likely to succeed? You may argue that while a defecting MP objects to his name being revealed in public or to the PM or other top BN leadership, he may have no problem with his name being revealed to another BN MP considering defection. But this does not sound very reasonable since the MP could be very suspicious of a BN MP who says that he is considering defection – he may think that the latter could be a spy from BN leadership. So he probably won’t agree to his name being revealed to other BN MPs who claim to be considering defection. In that case, there is no way to assess whether PR is likely to succeed.
Greetings!
“ISA MUST GO”, I fully agreed.
“Bodawi MUT GO”
Bodowi has made a lot of shame to Malaysia. Better he resigned one for all.
Hidup Rakyat, Free Malaysian, Free Raja Petra, Free Teresa.
reetings!
We are being forced willy-nilly to accept whatever the government decides… shame you, Malaysia lovely Prime Minister he claimed himself.
Anwar said that he did mention the takeover of the government in his first letter to the PM in the form of a ‘polite’ expression that he wants to discuss with PM ‘hala tuju politik’.
He accused the PM of failing to understand that the phrase ‘hala tuju politik’ referred to the transfer of power.
I think this is a weak argument. The phrase is just too vague. When the PM said that the letter only mentioned ‘general things about politics in Malaysia’, this sounded like an appropriate interpretation of ‘hala tuju politik’ on ordinary standards.
Anwar said that he couldn’t very well said something like ‘saya nak gulingkan kerajaan’. Of course he couldn’t and shouldn’t. But that does not mean that there is no other polite way of saying it which is clearer than the vague ‘hala tuju politik’. He could mention ‘hala tuju politik memandangkan hasrat lebih daripada 31 MPs BN untuk bersama PR’ or ‘peralihan kuasa kepada PR’.
correction ‘weak argument’ should have been ‘unreasonable claim’
correction:
‘If these MPs’ support are conditional upon PR’s success in forming a new government…’ in my message to Kanthanboy
should have been:
‘If These MP’s support are conditional upon PR’s success in forming a new government, it will lead to a deadlock. If these MPs’ support are conditional upon their judgement that PR is more likely to succeed in forming a new government…’
Dear Lee Wang Yen
I agree with you that this will end up in a deadlock. This is precisely the situation now. The deadlock will end only when a motion of no-confidence is tabled. At that moment each of those “numbers” will has to decide to jump or not to jump. If Anwar were to request every member of the house to stand up one by one to vote on the motion all you need is one of those “numbers” stand up to start the domino effect.
Seriously, I just want to know who came up with this idea to arrest her because that person(s) should be FIRED for STUPIDITY not just the injustice.
You might as well arrest my 90 year old grandmother for mouthing off at the local market if they had a reason to arrest Teresa.
No this is just the mother of all stupidity that evolution should have eliminated long time ago.. The fact is we have pea-brain dinasaurs disguised as human beings around.
Dear Kanthanboy,
The deadlock you refer to is not the deadlock I mention in my message.
In that message, the deadlock refers to the perculiar problem arising from your suggestion – i.e. the situation in which the defecting MPs cannot even cast a vote for or against the PM in a no-confidence vote, given your suggestion that they are only ‘willing to join whoever that form [sic] the government’. The deadlock can’t be solved by a no-confidence vote since the defecting MPs will only be willing to join PR in voting against the PM if PR is the government, but PR is not the government before the vote.
Perhaps what you mean by joining the PR is becoming a member of PR rather than joining the PR in voting against the PM. Well, in that case, your suggestion will get into the second problem I mentioned in my earlier post. Let me explain. You may think that the defecting MPs are reasoning in the following way. ‘If we vote against the PM in a no-confidence vote, then PR will take over the government. So we should vote against him and join PR after BN is toppled in that vote.’ But for this to be a reasonable reasoning a defecting MP needs to know that the no-confidence vote is likely to succeed. How does he assess the chances of its success? It will get to the second problem I mention in my earlier post, cited below:
‘You may say that their support is conditional on their judgement of whichever party is most likely to form a new government. But how are they going to assess whether PR is more likely to form a new government? Anwar may have shown to a defecting MP the signed documents of other defecting MPs. This is possible. But doesn’t this go against the defecting MPs’ request to keep their names secret until they are confident that PR is more likely to succeed? You may argue that while a defecting MP objects to his name being revealed in public or to the PM or other top BN leadership, he may have no problem with his name being revealed to another BN MP considering defection. But this does not sound very reasonable since the MP could be very suspicious of a BN MP who says that he is considering defection – he may think that the latter could be a spy from BN leadership. So he probably won’t agree to his name being revealed to other BN MPs who claim to be considering defection. In that case, there is no way to assess whether PR is likely to succeed.’
Why are Anwar & advisors wasting time trying to lobby for an emergency special session of parliament (so that motion of no confidence may be moved) when by article 11(3) of our Parliamentary Standing Orders, only the Prime Minister can convene such an emergency parliamentary session on grounds of public interest?
[In this regard PM has already said he won’t do it. I can imagine that it would be a joke on him to otherwise to convene an emergency session thereby admitting that it is public interest for a motion of no confidence to be tested against his own popularity].
I reiterate : why is this repeated focus on “vote of no confidence” or motion of no confidence that can only be delivered when Parliament is in session?
The key operative words of Article 43(4) of Federal Constitution is that “the Prime Minister ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives” – and NOT the words “motion and vote of no confidence” which are neither mentioned in the Constitution or Standing Orders.
The onus is on Anwar to prove that the Prime Minister has already ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives” .
Yes Anwar can prove that by a “motion and vote of no confidence” when Parliament is in session. That would certainly be one of the conventional ways but is it the only and exclusive way?
When Parliament is not in session, as is now, you mean there is no other way (beside motion and vote of no confidence) to prove that the PM has ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives per Article 43(4) of Federal Constitution?
There is no basis to take such a narrow view especially in exceptional times.
Suppose A, B, C, D have agreed to support Anwar on the condition that PR succeeds in taking over the government.
During the no-confidence vote, will A stand up (assuming the mode of voting suggested by Kanthanboy)? Before A stands up, he must make a judgement as to the likelihood of the success of the no-confidence vote. That means he has to obtain some reasonable evidence that at least 30 other BN MPs will also stand up. But he probably won’t get the evidence, for the reason I mention in my previous posts. But without such evidence he can’t conclude that PR is likely to succeed. According to my second interpretation of Kanthanboy’s suggestion, without thinking that PR is likely to succeed, a BN MP who has made a conditional pledge will not support Anwar in voting against the PM.
So the deadlock can’t be solved by the no-confidence vote.
How nice it would be for voters to be able to cancel their March 8 votes for BN, in the same way as Singaporeans are cancelling their AIA policies
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/376827/1/.html
And B, C, D will make the same consideration during the no-confidence votes. A, B, C, D won’t stand up if they are each making this consideration.
For a no-confidence vote to succeed in resolving the deadlock, there must be some BN MPs who do not condition their support on the success of PR in taking over the government. There must be some BN MPs who are willing to gamble – to support Anwar while being fully aware of the risk incurred if the vote of no-confidence fails. But this goes against Kanthanboy’s suggestion that BN MPs condition their support on the success or likely success of PR.
Actually, I think Anwar is banking on some BN MPs who are willing to gamble to create a ripple effect so as to win over some hesitating BN MPs. That probably explains why he is pushing for the no-confidence vote. But in any case, it seems that he has to do all this because he hasn’t got the numbers.
oops…no-confidence vote.’
In any case, I agree with Jeffrey that the best way to resolve the deadlock is to present the pile of signed notes Anwar claimed to have obtained to the king. It is as peaceful and orderly as the emergency session in parliament. And it can prevent the names of defecting MPs being revealed to the ruling party before the PM is summoned to either tender a resignation or offer counter evidence.
It’s hard to think of a good reason not to do this if one really has the numbers.
Abdullah needs to answer one simple question, if Anwar has the numbers, will he concedes defeat and handover power? You know the answer already.
even tdm with his wisdom sokong mp seputeh arrestment (if necessary):
src: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/9/19/nation/2069691&sec=nation
Dr Mahathir said Kok’s arrest was not justified as there was no security reason at the moment but the Government could arrest her later for such a purpose if necessary.
He said if Kok was involved in trying to stop the azan (call for prayers), there should be an explanation that the subject was not something she should talk about.
i suggest that since the BN is so supportive to the ISA,we want the United Nation,if there is such similar act,to detain our racist leaders especially from UMNO,whom keep-on instigating racialism and religion issues,WITHOUT TRIAL,for years,see how they,and their associates,family members feel about that draconian act!
now,after SAPP quiting BN,the BN head,quoting that SAPP has always been the naughty boys in the ‘class’,i thought previously he said only Yong T L because of position greed?so what about PPP then?some UMNO leaders had asked PPP to quit?are they naughty boys too?or only Kayveas?damn it!
///Then PM’s resignation : Article 43(4) states that if the Prime Minister ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the House of Representatives, then, unless at his request the Yang di-Pertuan Agong dissolves Parliament, the Prime Minister shall tender the resignation of the Cabinet.///– Quoted from Jeffrey
The paragraph deals only with the action after the fact that the PM ceases to command the confidence has been established. A vote of no confidence in the House would be one way to establish openly for all to see that the PM has lost the confidence. It is possible that the members march to the palace and to be counted. That can be done any day but it may not be easy to assemble all the people there at an appointed time. When the question of whether a member said to be willing to support Anwar might have second thought of the chances that others like minded person would follow through, when all of them have the right to be present in the lower house, the problem of getting them to be physically present in the Palace might be that much more difficult. Logistically, they might be blocked by traffic police, and might not be able to be there within limited period of the appointed time. So, going through the process of proving that AAB has lost half the MPs in the house is the safest way to go through it.
October 13 is the date where Parliament should convene. If I am not mistaken, there seems to be a provision that the PM could delay reconvening the parliament for 6 months. So, Anwar might have to consider some other ways to convince the King of the lack of support the PM has in the house.
TDM said that he would not ISA Anwar but would use the law if he was PM. The objective of preventing Anwar gaining power is the same. TDM replied in the context on how to prevent Anwar claiming the right to govern when he had more than half the MPs in the House. He also said he used the law in the past. He did not specify that he used the law because everybody is equal before the law, and whoever violated the law has to be dealt with accordingly. Do. TDM clearly stated that he used the law to stop Anwar’s political career. TDM must be confused with AAB’s action. AAB has not done anything to right the wrong in the judiciary, but yet he could not use the law to his advantage. AAB showed his anger and said that he would act on his own way. His trump card was only ISA. It turned out the card was two, not a trump.