Posted on by Kit

“Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary Caucus

Too busy to blog since the media conference in Parliament at 11 am yesterday on the letter to the Speaker, Tan Sri Pandikar Amin Mulia on Teresa Kok’s detention under the Internal Security Act, with several events crammed one after another including the following events:

1. Habeas corpus application for the release of Teresa at the Kuala Lumpur High Court;
2. First visit of Teresa by her parents at Bukit Aman, Kuala Lumpur since her ISA detention on Friday (Sept. 12) night at 11.18 pm.
3. Candlelight vigil at Kinrara, Teresa’s state assembly constituency.
4. Pakatan Rakyat Malaysia Day rally at Kelana Jaya Stadium.

Before rushing off to airport, must blog about the convening of a meeting of MPs from all political parties which I announced in Parliament House yesterday to form a “Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary caucus.

The inaugural meeting of this parliamentary caucus will be held in Parliament tomorrow, Wednesday, 17th September 2008 at 3 p.m and I hope that regardless of race, religion or political affiliation, MPs (and Ministers) will come together tomorrow to demand MP Teresa Kok’s immediate release in our capacity as a parliamentarian.

MP for Batu Gajah, Fong Po Kuan is the co-ordinating secretary convening the inaugural meeting tomorrow for the establishment of the “Free MP Teresa Kok” parliamentary caucus.

Let all MPs (including Ministers) come together for the first time in the nation’s history as an MP transcending race, religion or party.

Hope to see Datuk Zaid Ibrahim at the caucus meeting tomorrow!

173 Replies to ““Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary Caucus”

  1. The MPs are giving extremely strong support for Teresa Kok as expected. It is a pity that Raja Petra does not seem to get any support from the royalties in any way.

    I for once feel that the people should give Petra the same amount of support as Teresa Kok.

  3. Yes, they (DAP & PR) will help RPK eventually!!! I know what they (DAP & PR) are doing – One At A Time. Sure RPK is our hero will not be forgotten! Teresa is much easier as they have enough evidences to challenges…….

  4. Indonesian ex-president Abdurrahman Wahid during his recent visit to Malaysia said so long as Malaysia retains the ISA, the country cannot call itself a democracy.

    The struggle to repeal the ISA must go on until Malaysia is truly a democratic country.

  7. YAHOO ASIA NEWS
    ==============

    Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim said Monday he has enough support to topple the government and wants to meet with Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi to discuss a handover……..”Our representatives have delivered a letter to Abdullah to demand a meeting … to discuss the future of politics in Malaysia and the handover of power,” he said.

    “We have the numbers but we want to meet with Abdullah, show him the evidence and work out a handover because we want a peaceful transition”.

    Tian Chua, information chief of his Keadilan party, said the three-member opposition alliance had secured a simple majority in parliament and that more government lawmakers would defect later.

    But he said there were concerns that the coalition — which has ruled since independence from Britain 51 years ago — would stoke conflict in order to justify a crackdown to keep itself in power.

    “We want Abdullah to assure us there will be no repressive force used, like involving the police or inviting the military to take control,” he told AFP.

    Tian Chua said the opposition’s push had been helped by the detention on Saturday of an opposition politician, a prominent blogger and a journalist under draconian internal security laws.

    “Abdullah’s final crackdown made people lose hope that he is ever going to be a liberal reformer, which he promised,” he said.

    @@http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080915/afp/080915165549asiapacificnews.html

  8. attended the yesterday’s party at kelana….when anwar said he wants to discuss a smooth transistion of power….i almost drop my jaw…dont know whether to cry or laugh…..but as usual the herds are cheering…they want change and he wants power…..counting the eggs before they are even hatched?…..I think i’ve had enough of all these hoodwinks…..tian chua talks about meeting 40 of the MPs in taiwan but in reality he only met 1 or 2……In the end dsai couldnt be blamed….just like our younger todler days when things dont go our way, we use the most lethal weapon even designed..that is throwing our tantrumsc

    as usual the bigger issues like health care, neighbourhood security, social order, environment, economic and education, etc etc…are neglected while a boy cries wolf…. whats next anwar?

    the public are the fools…..me included…..go govern your respective states….dont make a fool of yourselves…the world is in bigger mess than all this……welcome bosnia malaysia….or better still zimboland.

  9. Selamat Hari Malaysia. We should celebrate this auspicious day with all our brother and sister from Sabah and Sarawak.

    ISA is outdated , draconian and abusive.

    Hats off to Zaid again for his courage and principle. There was a little light at the end of the tunnel for Malaysia and today the light has grown brighter.

    These unsung heroes of Malaysian democracy will be reemembered in future for attemping to abolish ISA.

    Long Live Malaysia. Free all ISA detainees. Give them fair trial !!!

    Mansuhkan ISA, OSA Sedition Act , Disband BTN , Revamp Education System ….

  11. It is a fact. Umno will never get rid of ISA. I mean, can we see umnoputras saying they have had enough of nep? For the same reasons, I cant see umno repealing ISA. More than voter’s support, ISA is actually and trully umno’s strength and lifeline. They have nothing else, really.

    The media used to be umno’s other pillar of strength but thanks to the simple “request / response” internet communication protocol, that pillar, although still standing today, is rendered less important.

    We are now presented with an ideal opportunity to chip away umno’s strength – the ISA. The arrest and detention of Tan of Sin Chew is no brainer (actually would come across as humourous if it was by Mr. Bean), ultra vires the Act and a clear abuse of authority. The arrest and detention of Teresa Kok is lame, a clear abuse of authority and an attempt to stiffle opposition voices. And the arrest and detention of RPK is directed specifically at suppressing people’s freedom to express their thoughts in and through the internet.

    Umno is running amok. That is obvious for all to see. With internal turmoil coming to a boil, those who are caught in a position of deperation will naturally lash out in all directions.

    The actions and reactions of the Home Minister is a good barometer of umno’s internal sentiments and temperature. His denial of responsibility in respect of the parliament corridor saga, of the MT block and of Tan’s detention under ISA are some recent examples of hitting out in all directions.

    Pm’s initial inertia and subsequent belated and wholly inadequate action towards the ahmad ismail racist remark is another good indication. He is lost and confused and does not know what to do.

    And worse, just when he thought he had finally (although not satisfactorily at all) resolved the matter, syed botak saw it fil to blow the issue up again by arresting Tan. Is this a lack of coordination? Or is it a lost of control? Or maybe both?

    Umno is sinking. Damage control is the only sensible thing to do and it will certainly alleviate its plight. Instead umno has decided to go on the offensive.

    If I may predict, it will soon run out of steam and sink. Zaid’s resignation is a sign of the party running out of steam. Good for us. Good for the nation.

    HAPPY MALAYSIA DAY!

  14. sorry sorry sidetrack sidetrack … equally important issue.

    Anwar promised that he will reduce the pump price of petrol by 70 sen immediately upon assuming power. That works out to RM1.85 per litre.

    The current price of crude oil is at US94.15 per barrel. Using the simple calculation, it is estimated that the current pump price of petrol is RM2.01 per liter.

    Today is Malaysia Day. The cheating UMNO government promised earlier that it will review the price of fuel twice a month. If that is so, shouldn’t the price be immediately reduced? And hey, the rakyat could’ve been more forgiving and sympathise with this flip-flopping lame duck Prime Minister if he had at least given a small gift to the rakyat on this Malaysia Day. But no, he chose to backtrack on his promises once again!

    This is called CHEAT, not subsidy!

    There is now even more reason for the rakyat to support Anwar and Pakatan Rakyat to oust this lying flip-flopping lame duck Prime Minister and his racist UMNO government.
    http://terangbulannegaraku.blogspot.com/

  16. The way ISA is used by the Umno-led BN smacks of lawlessness by principleless Umno politicians and some police officers.

    Why were a female reporter and a female opposition politician detained under ISA? Right-minded people could not think of a single valid reason that justified their detention under ISA. De facto Law Minister Zaid Ibrahim certainly did not agree.

    One can only speculate the reasons. Perhaps it’s so easy to detain someone under ISA. No need a warrant of arrest, just the excuse that the person is a potential threat to national security.

    Perhaps someone in the police force or the cabinet has an inspiration for entertainment: let’s bring in a female reporter and a female opposition politician, humiliate them by stripping them naked (even AnIbr said that he did not get to keep his underwear on), put them in a room with aircon blasting at the ‘maximum cold’ setting, see them shivering, feed them to mosquitoes, give them unhygienic food, let them suffer from diarrhoea, strip them of their human dignity, etc.

    Did the police make them do the squats while pulling their ears?

    Is there any guarantee that no one within the detention centre was recording/videoing what the female ISA detainees were experiencing?

    Also, why was RPK, a blogger who dared to discuss issues transparently, detained under ISA?

    Charge them in the courts if they did something wrong. Not detain them under ISA!

  18. I sincerely believe that the following individuals are the BIGGEST THREAT TO THIS COUNTRY AND THE RAKYAT SHOULD INVOKE THE ISA TO GET RID OF THEM:

    1) Bodohwi the Sleepy
    2) C4 Wielding DPM
    3) KJ the Monkey Buru
    4) Keris the Mudin
    5) Ahmad the Racist.
    6)….and the Mamak Picture Tearer!!!!

  20. ISA originally is to secure public safety, prevent to cause a substantial number of citizens to fear. but the people who apply has abuse these rule… why the law didnt apply to Khairy, and Ahmad Ismail when their speech were causing chaos/ panic to M’sia society!!!!

  21. Morning folks, you guys up early to catch latest news ya?
    last nite was quite fantastic cept many of us at the stadium don’t even know what to expect. well, we are going to form new Goment. How should all this happen? Funny.. How? Its not like Liverpool vs MU. Cheers then go home. End of story, right?

    Anyway, hang in there, have faith!!!

    We may not know how all this is gonna pan out, but I do know it has to be prudent. Its gonna be pandemenic!! if everything gonna change instantly. I mean one cannot just kick em out, right? Its gonna be another round of waiting. Just be patient. Have faith.

    Sorry, moving on to another point, the previous thread by
    mycroft Says:
    Today at 01: 52.05 (7 hours ago)
    challenge us to think what else can be done other than just blogging here and complaining about the useless Goment. We also know if YB Lim’s or any of PKR’s request for change will not be entertain, what’s the use of us just complaining here, right?

    Can anyone give suggestion on physical action how and what we can do, to really make a difference? At least, in our own individual capacity first? Then we could get feedbacks as well?

    Don’t mean to spoil it, I really like blogging here, but wld it make any difference? Is that really all we can do? I feel happy/sad reading so many ‘same’ criticism and at the same time feel helpless also. All in all, stay focus, have faith and move on.

    Anyone pls, better suggestion?

  22. ”
    MALAYSIA BERJAYA

    Malaysia kita sudah berjaya
    Aman makmur bahagia
    Malaysia abadi selamanya
    Berjaya dan berjaya

    Berbagai kaum sudah berikrar
    Menuju cita-cita
    Satu bangsa satu negara
    Malaysia berjaya

    Dari Perlis sampailah ke Sabah
    Kita sudah merdeka
    Negara makmur rakyat mewah
    Kita sudah berjaya

    Dengan semboyan kita berjaya
    Menuju di angkasa
    Satu bangsa satu negara
    Malaysia berjaya

    Composer and Lyrics: Saiful Bahri

    ”

    Do we sing this anymore?
    Is it meaningful?
    Is it still relevant?

    Happy Malaysia Day

  24. Never expect Umno to get rid of ISA and to reform itself.

    Just look at some of today’s news:

    “The three arrests made under the Internal Security Act (ISA) were a government decision and should not be questioned openly by any minister.” – Said who? Of course, said the one and only one Syed Hamid, the omnipotent. Minister pun tak boleh cakap, rakyat mana boleh cakap? No wonder MCA, MIC, Gerakan, and other nonUmno politicians kwai-kwai and diam-diam.

    “Several Umno leaders in Johor want de facto Law Minister Datuk Zaid Ibrahim to resign from the Cabinet for criticising the use of the Internal Security Act (ISA) to arrest three people recently.” – This reflects the situation in which most Umnoputras cannot stand ZI who tried to reform Umno a little bit from within. Umnoputras cannot wait to say ‘Good riddance and ta-ta’ to ZI.

    “Police used the Internal Security Act (ISA) based on the escalation of insensitive racial and seditious remarks made by individuals that caused racial unrest and religious tensions in the country.” – It’s like Pinocchio with a growing elongated nose. Big fat lies. The entire nation and the world knew about Ahmad Ismail’s insensitive racial and seditious remark, but obviously the police were not aware of it. The police only cared about the messengers.

  25. The police finally came out to say that arrest of Teresa is like Tan i.e., ‘for the larger good’ because of Azan issue and supposedly on Jawi writing of street signs.

    They refuse to admit they got the facts wrong and now holding on to flimsy excuse of ‘for larger good’.

    Here is a question for everyone.

    If they cannot admit to a basic fact when they get it wrong, how do we expect them to admit to an abstract idea of equal citizenship when they are also wrong?

    This is not just about the rights of Teresa Kok. Its really about the soul of this country, our fundamental soul on decency.

  26. “I can only encourage her. I told her we are people who believe in God. Bible told us those who are victimised because they fight for justice are blessed people. Such people are children of God. I encourage her with these words. I told her not to give up but keep on praying.” Spoken by Teresa’s 71-year-old mother Pong Seh Kwan. (From The Malaysian Insider)

    A government that terrorises its good citizens does not deserve to be in power. MCA, MIC, Gerakan, and other nonUmno parties within the BN – you are all part of this insensitive government and your hands are equally stained!

    “Here’s the smell of the blood still; all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand. Oh, Oh, Oh!” (Macbeth)

  27. Malaysian Government has crossed the limit of no return after ISA arrest of innocent civilians. This is similar to Myammar regime of imposing house arrest to Aung San Su Ki.

    Arresting own civilians who have committed NO CRIME. Home Minister Syed Hamid can’t even give a simple reason of the ISA arrest. This shows that the government has failed to act like a democratic country.

    DSAI has every reason to take over the administration and call for re-election. We are no longer a demoncratic country under BN oppressive ISA law.

    BN/AAB/UMNO regime must come down ASAP when time is right. Not necessary have to be 16 Sept 2008. Just anytime by year end.

  28. Zaid Ibrahim deserves to continue his good work as Law Minister or even take on more important position in the next Government under Anwar Ibrahim and PR. Teresa Kok is presently undergoing the baptism of ISA which most leaders of the PR have been through. It is an indication that she has reached that level of respectability for the present corrupted regime to take notice. Raja Petra Kamaruddin the bravest, shinning Malaysian star deserves nothing less than the highest accolade of the nation. Together with YAB Raja Dr Nazrin Shah, they have regained lost honour for the Royalities and Sultanate and together with it comes great respect and power from the rakyat.

    Until today UMNO just still hasn’t got it. They do not know how to count and are still living in their own corrupted and racist world. Let me point out to them. First they completely antagonise the Indians which constitute up to perhaps 8 – 10% of the population.The MIC may as well not exist.

    Now they completely offend the Chinese by the ridiculous jailing to two innocent girls under ISA and allowing that Ahmad Ismail Mamak to continue inciting racial hatred, especially his Chinese Pendatang ideas in the Kampongs. MCA may as well not exist. The Chinese constitute about 23- 25 % of the population and pays about 80% of the taxes.

    The Eastern Malaysia Block are made to feel like they have been taken advantage of and thoroughly fleeced. They minority group constitute no less than 5%. That is not even taking the population of East Malaysia as a whole into consideration.

    Then they try to sodomize YAB Anwar Ibrahim career using Saiful. They created trouble for right think Malay intellectuals like Azly Rahman, Bakri Musa and many others respected. Their following cannot be underestimated. They try to set the Malays against other races using the likes of Ahmad Ismail just to save their own skin. The backlash from the Malays out of BN’s cruel and devious deeds cannot be less than 30% of the population. The Malays are not stupid as the BN especially UMNO would like to think.

    So how many are left who may still consider supporting the corrupted regime of BN. BN Goons here, you go count yourselves and go tell your stupid masters. Tell them power in a democracy comes from the people and the majority of people wants you out and NOW. Tell the troublemaker Mamaks in your midst that accounting time is near. ACA will be sitting on them pretty soon to account for their dirty money.

  30. To all Barisan National MPs,
    Over the last few days all of you have been called upon to witness how ISA was despicably used on citizens of Malaysia. You must agree with me that if an innocent reporter could be so wrongfully & so EASILY slammed & arrested under ISA and was only released due to fierce protests from all quarters including leaders from other BN component parties namely MCA & Gerakan and even your Hishammdin the Education minister & Zaid Ibrahim the de facto Law minister also spoke against it being used on that reporter, You may very well expect that the same ISA can be wrongfullly & easily applied on you should Pakatan Rakyat takes over the government if it is not abolished.

    I want you all to imagine yourselves in YB Teresa’s shoes for a moment, imagine that you are locked up in a jail for 28 days pending whatever police investigation with a possible further jail of 2 years or more. Just imagine YOU are the one inside!

    Last night as I pray for Malaysia’s leaders and rakyat, I was strongly impressed by the words of Jesus – “whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12) Dear BN MPs, this ISA is just a small step away from you!

    I therefore appeal to your conscience that for the good of every Malaysian including yourselves, to abolish this devilsh ISA before it catches up on you.

    You can begin by joining the Parliamentary caucus tomorrow!

  31. I have said it on my previous comments.
    ISA must be abolished.Then RPK & Teresa & all the others arrested under ISA be released.
    Then we put all BN MP to lock up to ‘protect’ them from danger.BN MP’s are all VVIP,correct?
    If Khir Toyo thinks Malaysian lock up not safe enough then we all send him to Indonesian lock up.He should be safe there.

  33. This matter on the ISA is, rightly, a non-partisan issue. MPs from both sides of the divide have in times past suffered under oppressive regimes who have abused the system to complete their personal vendettas.

    YB, you are right on to convene this parliamentary caucus to express the contempt that whole-minded parliamentarians should have for such an oppressive piece of legislation. In the hands of evil men mindless fools, the draconian impact of such inhuman incarceration can utterly destroy familes and lives.

    Malaysians have mostly sounded their disgust with the ISA. It’s time parliamentarians do what is noble and right and voice the true feelings of their electorate in this timely process.

    SYABAS, YB, for prompt action to free Teresa, RPK etc.

    We are all waiting with bated breath for Anwar to take over the reins of government and introduce sweeping changes to law and order perpetuated by a sick and sickening BN!

  36. Dear Teresa and YM Raja Petra,

    Please hold for another day or two; i believe Anwar and other Pakatan Leaders are working very hard to free both of you and other ISA detainees.

    The Almighty GOD are with us to remove the tyranny govt…!

    Hidup Pakatan Rakyat…!

  37. What do you think is the preferable choice for MCA, MIC and Gerakan, is it to stay or to leave UMNO? If UMNO held on to power by force, MCA, MIC and Gerakan will leave but if UMNO lose power, MCA, MIC and Gerakan will stay in the BN coalition.

  39. The law says that the accuser have to come with a clean hand when making claims of abuse. If UMNO does not come with a clean hand, they don’t deserve it.

    The minds of voters who voted for UMNO to control the minority is indoctrinated by the knowledge-lacking MSM. If we look at the government controlled MSM today, there is no wisdom and originality. What sorts of knowledge and wisdom can you gain from this narrow minded editors? There is no mind enlightenment elements inside the contents after reading these papers. What we read is only the trumpeted bright sides of the government. How about the truth? The prejudice, discrimination, inhumane treatmen etc?

    So how do you expect these poorly informed voters to think out of the box? Unless they have access to the mind opening blogs, it is hard to crack their stereotypes.

    Today we still yet to see the announcement of the 916 take-over of the government. This is not a failure. This is the beginning of our struggle. We should not give up!

  40. Dear YB Lim Kit Siang,

    As much as we abhor the unjust detention of Teresa Kok and want to get her released as soon as possible, cool heads should prevail and we should to channel our energy and resources to the most effective methods instead of frenzied efforts up dead ends.

    What will not work
    ————————
    1) Petition to government – a petition to them is like casting pearls before swine.
    2) Candle light vigil – unless it can involve thousands which is unlikely because of the time held, small candle light vigils are ineffective.
    3) Letter to Parliament speaker – this partisan person is unlikely to do anything.
    4) Appeal to PM – he doesn’t have big ears, he has selective ears and he has a mean streak.

    What will work better
    ————————–
    1) International pressure – implore as many international bodies as possible to speak up.
    2) Appeal to Royalty – as Teresa is an Exco member and the issue involve Islamic matters which are under the purview of DYMM Sultan of Selangor, petition and appeal to his Majesty is in order.
    3) Public outrage – this was what got Ms. Tan released promptly. Disseminate her plight widely to the public by various means including website, e-mail, SMS, posters, billboards, leaflets, bus and press advertisements, public functions, etc.
    4) Peaceful mass rally – still the most effective way of making a point.
    5) Hunger strike – If Teresa is held beyond 28 days, the last resort is a hunger strike which will gain widespread sympathy and put huge pressure on the government. The human body can last 2-3 months without food if water is consumed and it should not go beyond the safety limit

    If it is any bitter consolation, the longer Teresa is held, the more political capital gained among the Chinese community at the expense of MCA and Gerakan. However it important to portray her as an innocent woman wronged and not a DAP MP wronged.

    YB Lim, I suggest a fund be set up to fund Teresa’s release. A Free Teresa website detailing the truth in 4 languages should be set up where non-cyberspace communication can be directed.

    Innovative ways must be used now. To buy space on a huge elevated billboard on a busy highway is expensive but imagine what it can do. Such a billboard only need to have Teresa’s photo, the words “Free Teresa, ISA Victim of Injustice” and a website address. Extra free publicity will come from press reports.

  41. To remain in the government is to continue supporting the use of ISA for political purpose. If MCA and Gerakan are sincere in their calls, the must leave BN ASAP. You cannot say you oppose the use of ISA, and yet continue to support the mechanism of ISA. MCA and Gerakan must wake up to this fact. The detention of Theresa is beyond politics and ideology. It was vindictive and personal. MCA and Gerakan, leave BN now.

  43. from nst = MINISTER in the Prime Minister’s department, Datuk Zaid Ibrahim has mde up his mind on quitting.

    “I’m not tired, just disappointed,” he told reporters at a press conference this morning at Putrajaya.”I’m sorry.”

    so Zaid finally quits! way to go!

  44. Dear Readers,

    Just keep an eye on those ‘tok-kok-no-action’ leaders especially from MCA and Gerakan.

    Keep an eye especially on Liow Thien Lye, Ng Yen Yen, Ka Chuan, Toh Tsu Koon and the like. Just see whether they will stand up for righteousness and truth irrespective of political difference.

    The truth will set this country free irrespective who rule the nation.
    As such, good leaders will dare to put their head on the chopping board when the going gets tough.

    Bravo to YB Zaid Ibrahim for being true anak Malaysia. When injustice done to own countrymen or women, true leaders will stand up and be counted rather than saying few words and gone into hidding.

    Just see how well this MCA and Gerakan will perform tomorrow before getting kick out by the general public once and forever.

  48. Zaid Ibrahim, despite being advised by Abdullah to stay back, will stick to his decision to quit in protest of the government invoking the Internal Security Act.

    I really admire Zaid Ibrahim’s courage and determination.

    Anwar told the people at last night’s rally to wait for good news from Zaid Ibrahim. Is Zaid Ibrahim going to join PR??? Zaid Ibrahim you are welcome.

  49. Something may be said of Zaid.

    Its a decision and its a decision.

    “Peck Pau” means “Peck Pau”

    (Peck Pau = police officer handing back gun i.e. resigning from the force, HK slang)

    Unlike the infamous liong sik stun years ago.

    Someone in this blog quite correctly pointed out that Zaid’s action is as good as a no confidence vote.

    Those amoungst the umno goons still with a conscience should now follow. Remember we are all malaysians. We dont hate you just because you are in umno. We only disapprove of those in umno who called themselves leaders who manipulated you; and who in your name, benefited tremendously.

  50. “I can only encourage her. I told her we are people who believe in God. Bible told us those who are victimised because they fight for justice are blessed people. Such people are children of God. I encourage her with these words. I told her not to give up but keep on praying.” Said Teresa’s 71-year-old mother Pong Seh Kwan.

    SMS or email the above to MCA, MIC, Gerakan, and other nonUmno politicians within the BN.
    Ask them if they can sleep at night. Ask them to do the right thing. Quit BN!

  51. To inaugurate a “Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary caucus (to be held in Parliament tomorrow, Wednesday, 17th September 2008 at 3 p.m) inviting all MPs and Ministers (including Zaid Ibrahim)regardless of race, religion or political affiliation, if a vote were passed by majority of such a parliamentary caucus resolving govt’s action invoking ISA were wrong & MP Teresa Kok should be immediately released, the question is : would not such a vote indirectly constitute, by way of first salvos, the first parliamentary vote against BN tantamounting to a mini vote of no confidence against an incumbent govt on its policies???

    If YB could form and inaugurate a “Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary caucus – without Speaker Tan Sri Pandikar Amin Mulia being aware of its implications to block it – couldn’t such a Parliamentary caucus or even another one be formed/used indirectly as disguise to send a vote of no confidence against the government?

    I believe Parliamentary caucuses have been formed not infrequently before (in Irish Parliament, as one example) to initiate a no-confidence motion.

    Does “Free MP Teresa Kok” Parliamentary caucus then serve 2 purposes of outwardly lobbying for Theresa’s freedom as well as indirectly sending an oblique signal to incumbent govt that it has lost the numbers in terms of majority using Theresa’s detention as policy issue in test of the PR’s majority?

  54. ZI knew Umno and the cabinet are incorrigible. Rotten to the core.

    Time to quit and stand up to be counted.

    WHY are nonUmno politicians within the BN still hanging and coattail-riding on Umno?

    Are they like Oliver holding out the porridge bowl and asking “More crumbs, Sir!”

  56. This is a Chinese wisdom that I had learnt during my childhood. This was a conversation between one righteous ancient Chinese official and a corrupt man that wanted the officcial to get involve.

    The story goes like this:

    Corrupt man: If you approve this deal, I will assure you that nobody will come to know about this.

    Righteous Official: What do you mean? I know that at least 4 of us know. You know (ni zhi). I know (wo zhi). God knows (tian zhi). And earth knows (di zhi). How come you said nobody knew about this.

    The moral here is don’t worry, for the righteous man, we have the world behind us and God will look after us.

    While the corrupts and tyrants have only devils behind them and God waiting for them.

  57. Every Country has a THINK TANK behind the Ruling Party. Which is composed of many scholars, thinkers, philosophers, lawyers, professionals, etc etc.

    These people give advise to the ruling party about the political situation internally and foreign.

    WHO are these “advisers” for our PM? Do we have one?

    IF we Have ONE, does these “advisers” even have SPM qualifications?

    From the current political situation and tactics used, I DON’T THINK SO.!!!!

  59. Malaysian never care 916 haven’t happen, it just the matter of time, so bodowi please shut up. These BeEnd really gone too far, digging too deep for their own grave, the rakyat now are really angry…

    Seems like we live in zaman jahiliyah!

    ISA, if nabi Isa knows that His name is being use in this way, He will be crying for the BeEnd stupidity…

  61. Last night Anwar said this : “///But our promise is that we will not follow the rule of the jungle. There will be no witch-hunting – what is done is done. What we want is to rule without corruption, detention without trial or theft of the people’s resources///”.

    He has sent forth what to me is a clear policy statement to BN that if Pakatan Rakyat takes over government, it will not go on witch-hunting (ie investigate and prosecute for corruption – based on “ what is done is done”. In short, an oblique reference, for the first time, to a general amnesty against corrupt acts of previous govt’s oficials…..

    The Question is whether Anwar summons the credibility for this policy representation to be believed by the other side. Otherwise they’ll fight his take over plan to the finish.

  63. While the effect of Zaid’s resignation is good, let’s not be too optimistic about the purpose. Maybe it’s just a golden opportunity to jump ship. Very strong evidence that DSAI is gonna take over very soon.

  65. “Zaid is far sighted” – Jeffrey

    PM material riding on an UMNO chariot as a non-racist caught in between his dreams for a fair Malaysia and a beloved racist organization, and when his knowledge, philosophy, principle and understanding of the laws are nonetheless a contradiction to where he is standing now. What is Zaid doing in UMNO is the first place?

  66. Well Anwar reiterated last night that 9/16 was real in th sense that by 9/16 he already garnered the requisite majority numbers, never mind whether actual takeover might procedurely take a bit later.

    So it would be incumbent upon Anwar to show the numbers today by Press Conference.. This is for the sake of his credibility.

    If he actually does not have the numbers by 9/16 and yet said he had, then how are the rakyat/his supporters to believe his pledges that when he is PM he would dismantle and substitute the racial policies by “need” policy or that he would give the states another 20% of oil royalty or bring petrol price down? How is he going to convince BN MPs to either defect to PR or not fight it by his last night’s statement – “ our promise is that we will not follow the rule of the jungle. There will be no witch-hunting – what is done is done. What we want is to rule without corruption, detention without trial or theft of the people’s resources”???

    Is 916 were not for real (in sense above explained) then Anwar/PR will have helped scored their own goal and stop laughing at Hamid for scoring Bn’s goal by the ISA dragnet.

  69. Dawsheng – Zaid has just re-affirmed his decision to quit the Cabinet. When you asked “What is Zaid doing in UMNO is the first place?”, can we hold that against him and exonerate PKR’s leader Anwar from also being in UMNO then doing things contrary to what he is advocating now?

  73. correction:

    When is Zaid going to indicate that he is open for nomination for the top post as the grassroots and divisions want him to serve them? Hope he gets sufficient nominations..maybe can run with “Kuli”

  77. YB Lim.. Let me tell you now no MP,s from MIC or MCA will turn up.Not that they don,t want.Just afraid that all their corrupted ways will be exposed by UMNO.
    Don,t forget the RM 4.6 billion KFTZ SCANDLE.The main players are from MCA.MAIKA TELECOM SCANDLE belongs to MIC.

  81. YB Theresa was detained because she asked for road signs in Mandarin and Tamil. But the Gerakan monkeys who actually put up road signs in Mandarin in Georgrtown a couple of months ago are still jumping around free.

  82. Zaid’s stand against the use of ISA on civilians is only part of the reason he resigned. He said that Badawi had been facing “constraints” which is as good as saying that old style UMNO politics are in the way of reform. Like I said in various other postings, thieves can’t reform, and hence they must be booted out.

  84. The Star
    Tuesday September 16, 2008

    MCA Youth lauds quit move

    PETALING JAYA: The MCA Youth legal bureau lauds Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Zaid Ibrahim for his resignation from the Government.

    Legal bureau chief Gan Ping Sieu said in a statement that his resignation was a loss of a well-respected minister in the Government, who had shown tireless effort and commitment in various areas of law reform.

    “We express our admiration to a politician who has stood by his avowed stand and set an example of political conviction in our country,” Gan said.

    He also called on the Home Ministry to release the two Internal Security Act detainees, Seputeh MP Teresa Kok and blogger Raja Petra Kamaruddin, to “save the Government from further embarrassment.”

    *************************************************
    Is that all the MCA can do – applauding Zaid Ibrahim who quit because he disagreed with the use of the ISA on RPK and Teresa? Would the MCA Ministers have the courage to do the same? Would Gerakan be brave enough to pull out of the BN to protest the recent use of the ISA. Koh Tsu Koon has voiced out that he does not agree with the use of the ISA on RPK and Teresa. Would he follow that up with action? It is just talk, they still prefer to wait under the UMNO dining tables for those droppings of bread crumbs and while waiting, massage the UMNO b-lls. Spineless.

  85. YAHOO NEWS ASIA
    ==============

    @@http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080916/afp/080916053350top.html

    Hatta Ramli, from the Islamic party PAS which is a member of the opposition alliance, said that if Abdullah refuses a meeting the next step would be to see Malaysia’s king, Tuanku Mizan Zainal Abidin, to clam a mandate to rule.

    “The issue of appointment of the prime minister and change of government is very much the role of the king,” he said, adding that the opposition now had the support of as many as 116 parliamentarians.

    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR
    116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR 116 MPs support PR

  86. The ISA is good, enforcement should be rational and fair, says Minister Prime Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi in the Star newspaper.

    Any rational man will say there is no fairness here bcos innocent people have been arrested whereles the real culprit Ahmad Ismail is still free out there to incite the sentiments of the malays. The newspaper company “Utusan” is still free to report lies . This clearly shows our Mr. Nice Prime Minister is a liar and also a OTAK TAK CENTER PRIME MINISTER.

  88. The explanation given by the police to arrest Teresa Kok is ridiculous and downright display of stupidity. These guys expect the rakyat to believe them??
    And the deputy IGP’s explanation that there was no case against Tan Hoon Cheng merely shows that she was reporting the truth- the truth that Ahmad Ismail had actually uttered those inflammatory words against the Chinese Malaysians. As such, why no actions taken against this idiot Ahmad?? Since Tan is now released, The rakyat would like to know how the “brilliant” Home Minister and his police force going to protect her from harm.

    Finally, how could Theresa Kok be a national threat when Muslims from the mosques in question have come forward to testify that she was never involved in petitioning the mosques using the PA system. In fact one of them even made a report against this sore loser “pendatang” Khir Toyo idiot. But did the police act on the report?

    As for RPK, he preaches peace, tolerance and fairness to millions of his readers. He has never instigated racial or religious tensions at all. Its only the government and holier than thou NGOs are afraid of RPK and the huge following he command. How can he be a threat to security and got arrested under ISA is beyond understanding.

    Crimes are flourishing everywhere. Instead of doing their job, our force who is supposed to protect the rakyat have involved themselves in things they should not be involved.

    Hope the PKR and peace loving rakyat knock some sense into these nutmeg heads. Release Teresa, and RPK!!!

  89. Certainly ‘When is Zaid going to leave UMNO?’ should be the question to ask rather than ‘What is Zaid doing in UMNO in the first place?’ for the second question implies that Zaid shouldn’t have made the mistake of joining UMNO.If so, then what you are doing is really conferring infallibility on man,dawsheng,
    and you must be the first person in the world to have attributed a new characteristic to man!
    Then other question is ‘Would Zaid join PKR?’. and if so it would definitely be a big plus for a man such as Zaid has shown himself to be a man of principle, willing to walk the talk (this species of man is almost extinct in Malaysia) and truly a rare find.

  90. Umno is wrong again. Same wrong observation and same wrong conclusion everytime.

    They thought the current tidal wave is all about anwar and anwar alone; that if anwar could not deliver, then the wave would simply lose its energy, recede and then all will be peaceful, nice and quiet again.

    INCORRECT. INCORRECT. INCORRECT. INCORRECT.

    The tidal wave is generated by sub-oceanic plate movements. The whole column of water from the depth of the ocean right up to the surface is in motion. It is no mere ripples across the face of the ocean, if they still dont get it! Let another by-election come and the people will show them how unmoved they are and how strongly they feel that a change is needed for the good of the nation and its people.

  91. The Raja Muda of Perak, Raja Dr Nazrin Shah, called on the country’s leaders to focus on developing the nation’s resources for the well-being of the people.

    This advice will certainly fall on deaf ears. Where got time lah to run the country? The two leaders are busy finalizing the details of the Umno transition plan.

    Yesterday AAB and NR met for more than four hours to discuss the country’s present political situation, including the Umno transition plan. This was the second time the two men had met in the past 72 hours. They met for about three hours on Saturday, when they also touched on the same subject.

    With this latest round of ISA, there is no more reason for AAB to helm Umno. The discussion between the two might go like this:

    AAB: Okey-dokey, I step down and you go up. And you must guarantee that me and my family members’, my SIL’s, and my cronies’ benefits will be protected. Here are some mega projects and corridors that must not be cancelled and must be awarded to my family members, my SIL, and my cronies. You can start your own mega projects and corridors to reward yourself, your wife, your family members and your cronies. Forget about the old man, his family members, and his cronies. They have makan enuff for more than 20 years. Now the old man wants to balik to Umno pula. No shame.

    NR: Ho, ho, ho. Correct, correct, correct. That old man still wants more. Forget about him lah. Yes, one for you and one for me. When I become the PM, what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine too. Ho, ho, ho! I love it!!

  92. There is a strong indication that AAB may be forcibly ousted by Umnoputras as President of Umno and PM of Malaysia this week, possibly the coming Umno supreme council meeting this Thursday.

    Not too late for AAB to repent. Time for him to do the right thing for the nation and to pass the baton to AI and PR. Maybe too it’s time for him to take the lead to denounce Umno and to hop to PR. Let other racist Malays helm Umno.

    Afterall, AAB, sleepy, snoring, or not, was one of the key persons who enabled the current political situation to be reached.

    Had he acted ruthlessly like MM, most PR leaders and other active social workers would have been locked up under ISA a long time ago!

    CHANGE!

  94. Anwar’s media conference a while ago was disappointing. There was no surprise as promised earlier. What he said was basically that he had the numbers. But this is nothing new. He’s been saying this for quite a while.

    This is not looking good for PR.

  95. I salute you ZI. You are a man of principal. Few in UMNO can even lick your boots. The Minister of Tourism is a @@@@@. The past few days events have made the man on the street wonder where we are going. People who are innocent being arrested under ISA. The guilty ones ie the goon from Penang, the monkey Toyol and the newspaper which reported about Teresa should all be put under ISA. It really pains to see innocent people suffering for no rime or reason.

  97. If as DSAI claims he has more than enough numbers of MPs to form the government, he should lead a delegation of leaders in the Pakatan Rakyat to the Yang Di-Pertuan Agong and show him the list as a prelude to the take-over.

    When the King has given his consent, then only should DSAI publish the names of all the MPs in favour of a CHANGE in government.

    The corrupt BN government would do everthing in their power to negate DSAI’s plan if they knew the names of the BN MPs in advance. The desperate BN goons may even resort to keeping those MPs under house arrest with the help of the corrupted police force.

    Pakatan Rakyat must plan very meticulously any take-over
    to prevent any pre-emptive action from Bodohwi and gang.

  98. as per DSAI = “It’s not going to be plain sailing. We have taken a softer option, trying to negotiate with the PM, listening to him and his views … and then move on, seek an audience at the palace and then take it to Parliament … The media are in a state of denial. We will meet and deliberate with the PM and we see what happens in the next few days… We will give time to the PM to seriously consider and act responsibly as PM of this country and respect the wishes of the people.”

    DSAI wants a peaceful transistion, that’s all. Well like they say patience is a virtue…

  102. Opposition leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim said today he has demanded Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi hand over power in a smooth manner as he claims to have more than enough support to form the next Federal government.

    He claimed today that his Pakatan Rakyat alliance had exceeded the required number of MPs to form the government.

    However, he said the transition must proceed smoothly to prevent a repeat of incidents in Perak and Selangor, where he alleged documents were shredded following the opposition’s surprise wins in the March elections.

    He said four demands had been issued to the PM in a letter sent yesterday.

    The demands are that MPs are not stopped from defecting; the Internal Security Act not be used to detain defecting or PR MPs; a state of emergency should not be declared; and no roadblocks be set up to stop MPs from going to Parliament – M’sian Insider, 16-Sep-2008

    ============================================

    Good call DSAI, you know these Goons’ mentality inside out.

  103. Anwar said yesterday that he would reveal the names of those from the BN who will support him. I don’t think he is that reckless to make such an announcement if he does not in fact have that support.

    In fact and in law, there is no need for a cross-over. The PM need be only the one who commands the confidence of the House; he need not be from the party which has the majority of seats.

    From a cursory observations, it is rather obvious that Badawi has lost the confidence of the House. At the same time, not many would openly call for or vote on a motion of no confidence against him. So far, only Yong Teck Lee’s party has threatened to do so.

    It may be that Anwar has a list of BN MPs who have confirmed that they have no confidence for Badawi continuing to be PM and yet do not want Najib to be the next. Confronted with this, Badawi may be pressured into agreeing to a motion for a no confidence vote thereby paving the way for an audience with the King to appoint a new PM and / or a dissolution of Parliament.

    Whatever it is, for the sake of peace and law and order, it is imperative that Badawi agrees to the next course of action with the support of the police and the military.

    As I have said in another thread, I think Anwar will lead a caretaker government pending the new GE. There is no need for any cross-overs before Parliament is dissolved. What is needed is only for Badawi and the majority of the House to agree to call for a fresh GE, whether that agreement is made willingly or dictated or extracted by force of circumstances.

    A fresh GE may be one way Mahathir can be proven wrong. He has always held that UMNO fared badly in the last election because people dislike Badawi, not that they want any changes in government or policies.

    UMNO will be led into the new GE by a new leader, whoever that may be. No one, including Mahathir can say anything against a fresh GE as every one says they have the support and mandate of the people. If so, there should no qualm or quarrel to go over again with a new GE.

    Of course, much money would have to be expended for a fresh GE but it will be better than the losses arising from the present political uncertainties.

    For Badawi, as I have said elsewhere, he is practically a goner in the UMNO – it is only a matter of time before the official burial. He will have to go, that is not a choice. The choice is whether he would go with UMNO as it is, still in control of the government and able to do more damage to the country or he would go after agreeing to a fresh GE which would mean UMNO has to fight for its own survival in that GE.

    If he makes the right choice, Badawi will be remembered as the PM who liberated Malaysia from the claws and tyranny of UMNO.

  105. HB Lim Says: “If he makes the right choice, Badawi will be remembered as the PM who liberated Malaysia from the claws and tyranny of UMNO.”
    ============================================
    or as the most incompetent nincompoop in the history of M’sia.

  106. “… and you must be the first person in the world to have attributed a new characteristic to man!” – AhPek

    Not quite, it was said in the past that the Pope is infallible and he probably still is. Anyway, your question about whether Zaid will join PKR is worth wondering. :)

  107. IF DSAI really has “numbers”, he is wasting time making appointment to see the PM : why should PM see him to facilitae his own removal? DSAI should instead see the King and legitimise/prove figures, and once having done that it is difficult for reactionaries to “create incidents” as an excuse for emergency rule because such will be seen as trying to deny the majority numbers. The longer DSAI delays in pussyfooting around with trying to see the PM instead of the King direct – and delaying confirming/legitimising the so called figures he has – the greater the chances of clamp down happening earlier based on excuse that DSAI is creating fiction and tension in the country.

  108. Frm Malaysiakini:
    Sep 16, 08 2:40pm
    BREAKING NEWS! updated 3.10pm He insists he has in excess of 31 government defectors, calling on Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi not to implement emergency rule to stop the takeover. more

  113. DSAI is right in not disclosing the names as this will lead to either a clampdown or give BN to open more talks which will derail the process. What DSAi needs now is the consent and support of the Agung. He is being a true gentlemen and offering Badawi a face saving choice of either surrender or forcibly removed. DSAI is also sincere in preventing emergency rule, knowing the kind of racists warlords in UMNO.

  114. <>

    By the year 2020, Malaysia will be an advanced nation, boasting
    the following:

    – More roads along with more bottlenecks
    – More highways with the same confusing design, and more toll plazas
    – More parking meters
    – More police road blocks to ensure the stability of the country
    – More ISA arrests to protect the safety of our journalists
    – Buy more tickets on the Russians spacecraft
    – More political power struggles
    – More unsolved murder mysteries, with more advanced ways to dispose of the bodies

  116. Syed Hamid, the Minister of Home affairs said the ISA arrests were solely the decision of the Police. He defended police action using the logics even his UMNO colleagues dared not be associated with. He later changed the story to say that it was the government which decided, and he did on its behalf. That sentence could give the meaning that he was ordered to do so. On both occasions he was not responsible for the police action. Subsequently he said that he ordered the arrests, this time as the Minister doing his duties.

    Syed Hamid had been Foreign Ministers, and he might be used to be reading from prepared texts at different cities in different days, and he might still be thinking that he had been at different places reading different texts.

    It must be quite extraordinary for the same person who could give three different versions of the same event, and are all contradictory. Is the Minister as a born liar, or did he not know what he had been saying? How then can a person whose mind does not work be given the responsibility to look after national security? With his record, he cannot be trusted to be even a clerk, let alone a minister in charge of Police force.

    PM AAB is busy trying to choose the auspicious hour when he could sign over his power to Anwar. But within UMNO, there are different groups, clamoring to become the president and other office bearer of UMNO. When AAB eventually hands over only the party position of UNNO, the heavy weight would be in deep dilemma. Should they now join Anwar, and await reappointment after habitation. Or should there fight for UMNO post to regain power on their own. The people are now mature not to be swayed by racial politics. Without the racist environment, their skill is useless. Only TDM considers his assimilation into his adopted land the only means to unity. He was merely exploiting his advantage, but others in UMNO need not do so.

  118. Extracted the quote from a mail received:
    ” A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an OPEN market, is a nation that is afraid of its people.” -John F. Kennedy
    People’s Power!

  119. The press conference just now was meant to ‘cushion’ their own selves by stating things BN govt. should not do when during and after the takeover.

    Of course there is no intention to announce NAMES.

    Brothers, noone will reveal the last card until the final moment.

    Even Pak Lah has not revealed his fright officially yet.

    Politic is more complicated than card games, so hang on and continue to show your support for a new Malaysia.

    Happy Malaysia Day!

  120. “Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence and fulfills the duty to express the results of his thought in clear form.”
    Albert Einstein, quoted in New York Times, March 19, 1940.

  121. ///IF DSAI really has “numbers”, he is wasting time making appointment to see the PM : why should PM see him to facilitae his own removal?///–Jeffrey

    DSAI believes that AAB is not the person who would be willing to cause trouble in the country just to prevent power transfer. I cannot say the same about other leaders in UMNO.

    The country has not experienced a change of governemnt over the past 51 years. But such change is routine elsewhere in countries practicing democracies.

    It is not a loss of face for AAB, and neither is it a removal from position. AAB sits where he is because of the number of MPs he commands. AAB needs to be informed in closed-door that he now does not command majority in the house and he is free to check with the people who make up the number for confirmation. Then the offical procedure could be arranged.

    I think we are lucky that AAB is now the PM, rather than somebody who were deeply involved in the 1969, or 1987 incidents.

  122. Yesterday astro channel 301 reported that teresa was blind folded while moving her from one place to another. Does the gomen have to go to that extent? We are talking about the rakyat elected MP not some criminals! I see gomen is insulting the rakyat’s intelligence.

  123. lextcs Says:

    Today at 08: 36.57 (7 hours ago)
    attended the yesterday’s party at kelana….when anwar said he wants to discuss a smooth transistion of power….i almost drop my jaw…dont know whether to cry or laugh…..but as usual the herds are cheering…they want change and he wants power…..counting the eggs before they are even hatched?…..I think i’ve had enough of all these hoodwinks…..tian chua talks about meeting 40 of the MPs in taiwan but in reality he only met 1 or 2……In the end dsai couldnt be blamed….just like our younger todler days when things dont go our way, we use the most lethal weapon even designed..that is throwing our tantrumsc

    as usual the bigger issues like health care, neighbourhood security, social order, environment, economic and education, etc etc…are neglected while a boy cries wolf…. whats next anwar?

    the public are the fools…..me included…..go govern your respective states….dont make a fool of yourselves…the world is in bigger mess than all this……welcome bosnia malaysia….or better still zimboland

    ………………………………………………………………………………

    My reply to lextcs:

    If you have had enough of all the hoodwinks why did you choose to be part of the ‘herds’ in kelana jaya?
    I could only conclude that your presence there was a waste of space.
    Your comments seem to be immature and your conculsion is childishlike !

    Do note the achievements by the opposition thus far:
    1. The victory of the opposition in the recent general election by denying the ruling government a two third majority.
    2. The victory of DSAI by making a grand comeback via the Permatang Pauh by-election

    The achievements above are caused by a combination of factors including the Anwar Ibrahim factor!!

    With the recent developments that took place, it will not be easy to achieve a smooth power trasition. Unfortunately you cannot get that into your numb skull.

    Do not think the people are stupid. The people supported and voted the opposition and if you don’t have anything constructive to say , just hold your peace.

    Bigger issues like health, security etc will be discussed in good time!

    I do have to agree with your last paragraph though, that you are a fool.

    Well done.

  124. I think DSAI should include two important points in his letter to the PM, which are:

    1. National reconciliation plan.
    2. Amnesty, that is government officials will not be punished if they surrender their illegally acquired wealth.

    If the points mentioned above are not included, UMNO may not accede to DSAI’s four demands knowing that some of their members will have to go to jail if he grabs power.

  127. Happy Merdeka! For A Truly Malaysia…

    YHSiew has a very good suggestion on above.

    Free RPK & Teresa immediately an abolish ISA; I’m sure there are many other ways to handle the predators, terrorist and others.

  128. yhsiew’s points are interesting but not all should get the free ticket out of jail – it should depend on the nature of the crime and also how long it has been perpetrated.

    For example – those involved in illegal immigrant scams should be deemed a security threat and need to spend some time in a retreat and jail would be a good place for contemplation.

  129. It’s all good to know that Anwar has got the numbers to take over the government.

    My only hope is that those MPs who crossover must be corruption-free. For example if the MPs who are to crossover are also in the cabinet then what would become of them? Most of us would agree to a certain extent that most of them are corrupt!

  130. Most people doesn’t care whether 916 or 1016 or 1116. As long as PR take over this government by this year end, that’s good enough. Some expecting overnight change, some expecting 916 overnight take over everything will be smooth sailing, come on kids, this is not main masak masak.

    BN took 51 yrs to mess up the country, expect 1 night change? Rational thinkers will expect slow but progressive change to clean up the country.

    Change will not be easy. Many will like to return to the old rotten cocoon. But new generations will like to abandone this old cocoon once and for all after being cheated and oppressed for 51 yrs!

  131. HAPPY MALAYSIA DAY… i would like to wish Pete and Teresa in good health.

    We didn’t want a change of govern simply for a sake of a change, in order to practice democracy we must have both check and balance on each other party. So we have a choice, the meaning of people power and the real meaning of election being held. But after 51 years in authority these BN was suppose to be better instead becoming arrogant, abuse and corrupted. Dictating their way to solve problems agains monority who dare to apposed agains them. Like in the US Republicans vs Democrats today, i really hope we dont have to wait any longer. why? look at this jocker, his the king of all joker in our politician cards…

    http://d.yimg.com/hb/xp/afp/20080916/05/2961762069-defiant-malaysian-pm-rejects-opposition-claim-on-power.jpg?x=192&y=308&sig=BSKsenOT0BbMox.Sqkb.0w–

  132. “I agreed if DSAI has the numbers, he does not have to meet PM for the power transfer. It is a “political lies” as claim by AAB.” — js

    I believe DSAI wants to ensure a peaceful transition. If he approaches AAB first, and AAB rejects such a meeting, DSAI can still go to the King, and he can say, “I did give them a chance to do this amiably.” It will also give DSAI a chance to directly instill some sense back into AAB, who has obviously been brainwashed by his advisors.

    If you were the King, won’t you also want your subjects to be communicative with each other first?

    It is important for PR to take over the govt, but it is even more important that it be done in a stable manner, and in a manner which even the royalty would approve of.

  133. Jeffrey Says:

    Today at 15: 33.14 (2 hours ago)

    IF DSAI really has “numbers”, he is wasting time making appointment to see the PM : why should PM see him to facilitae his own removal? DSAI should instead see the King and legitimise/prove figures, and once having done that it is difficult for reactionaries to “create incidents” as an excuse for emergency rule because such will be seen as trying to deny the majority numbers. The longer DSAI delays in pussyfooting around with trying to see the PM instead of the King direct – and delaying confirming/legitimising the so called figures he has – the greater the chances of clamp down happening earlier based on excuse that DSAI is creating fiction and tension in the country.

    ***************

    I think there are 2 ways to interpret this – as in why see AAB first and not go straight to the King.

    First way is as Jeffrey hinted, that maybe, there isn’t the numbers, and this is giving more rope to AAB to hang himself.

    Second way is that maybe DSAI already has the numbers and he is reasonably confident that no matter what AAB does from here on, the numbers won’t be changed materially. If this is the case, then, this is a mark of a very confident man. He knows AAB’s time is up, and he wants to make sure that he gives due respect to AAB. Also, if AAB agrees, a possible benefit is that it makes the transition easier i.e. the Agong will want to hear both sides (AAB and DSAI) and if AAB agrees, this makes it very easy on the Agong to make a change, which will be the first time in Malaysia’s history. And in a sense, maybe this is the sort of courtesy DSAI expects one day when he himself loses power.

    Of course, the 2nd possibility is speculative also. But if true, then, my hats off to DSAI for being a gentlemen, right up to the very end. If he becomes the PM, he would command my highest respect.

  135. Arresting TERESA and RPK using the ISA might or might not be right.But arresting TAN who was just doing her job.By reporting what she heard.PAK LAH HIMSELF said”” tell the truth not what i want to hear””.
    Hamid had just given the opposition another round of ammunition to shoot at the government.HAMID thinks that we MALAYSIAN are stiill living on trees.
    The police can keep on saying that they are apolitical.But each action they take clearly shows that they are doing the dirty work of UMNO.
    Why still no action againts AHMAD ,KHIR TOYOL and UTUSAN.

  136. The new government must make the public sector more accountable.

    For example:-
    1. Agencies like EPF must release full details of their accounts annually, i .e how the public money was spent etc. These details must be published in major newspapers. The accounts must be independently audited by external auditors (Pwc etc).

    2. To set up independent ‘watchdogs’ to govern the banking, airline, public transport, telecommunications ,energy and other industries which hold a monopoly in their respective field.
    These industries would be accountable and answerable to the watchdogs which must consist of members of public who are not affiliated to any political parties and be seen to be independent.
    For example, in the banking sector we are still being charged a min. of RM1 to use say Maybank’s ATM card at CIMB’s ATM machine! We also being charged RM8 per annum just to maintain our savings account with CIMB..and i mean a normal savings account!!! I suppose this is also practised by other banks. Bank Negara could not care less about this. This has to be stopped, the banks are making hundreds of millions by ripping us off like this!
    I shall not talk about public transport, makes my blood boil! The taxi drivers seem to think we are at their mercy, refusing to use meters most of the time. Try hopping into one near any LRT/KTM stations. The common excuses given are:
    1. Distance-too far
    2. Traffic jam!
    3.Driving back an empty cab-hence the extra fare
    Enough is enough

    3. Proper governance of all hospitals, private and public alike.

    4. Better schools needed. I seriously have my doubts on these smart schools etc.

    A bit of track here, my apologies.

  137. Anwar: More than 31 members quit a few days for the Government
    Calls for peaceful transfer of political power not to declare a state of emergency…

    “we have a majority of seats …… millisecond of course, it more than 31 seats.”

    “Including internal members, ministers and deputy ministers, we have sufficient numbers.”

    He even put words, the switch constantly increasing number of members, “I am not joking, this morning I just received another notice signed by the members.”

    “Once after a meeting with the Prime Minister, we will follow the Constitution and the law to take over powers, including the acquisition of the Royal head of state.”

  139. Home minister Syed Hamid,
    For your information YB Teresa Kok is a 3 term elected MP and she is the key person handling Investment, Trade and Industry dept of the newly formed Selangor state Government. I would expect you to have at least a bit of human decency not to blind fold her treating her like some hardcore criminal. Shame on you!!!!!!!

    She is also currently sueing Utusan Malaysia for RM 30million for planting false accusation regarding the “AZAN” issue and we have every confidence that she will win her case as the mosque authority has also come out in her support.

    Syed Hamid please understand that you are sitting on a very important chair serving us as HOME MINISTER of Malaysia so stop bahaving like a spoilt kid twisting & turning your childish logic and pushing the reponsibilty on the police force and the cabinet. You are dragging Malaysia to international shame and not fame.

    We demand you to release YM Raja Petra and YB Teresa Kok IMMEDIATELY!

  142. She will be released very soon.It was a mistake on the part of the government to detain her.The police had erred and they have no cause.The home minister has to go on leave to save his face.It looks like a child’s play by those in power!The Law minister had resigned and hope that will spur the UMNO/BN government to think twice before using the ISA.

  143. The cross over and the formation of the new government is a very tricky affair. It must be choreaograph perfectly. Afterall, here in malaysia we do not have the benefit of similar precedent.

    MPs who agreed to jump ship are naturally afraid of backlash. Cant blame them. The moment their identity is revealed, there would be no turning back. All sorts of things could happen.

    First, umno, as the government of the day, could still use its executive power to arrest people (albeit wrongfully) and cause all sorts of havoc like road blocks or dissolve parliament then assume the role of caretaker government indefinitely with the help of the army.

    Secondly, if the situation is not perfect, those deserters could very well panicked and somehow claim (does not matter if the claims are completely wrong) that they have been compelled or bribed into jumping ship.

    Therefore, out of prudence, the name list must be kept a secret. Of course, it is quite alright to reveal the numbers. And it is important to talk to the pm of the day and talk sense into his head so that the transition could be effected with minimal trouble.

    Let the pakatan politicians do the work. Let us all not lose hope. I have absolute faith in them.

  144. Qoute of the year:

    “It did not cross my mind to hurt my own(malay). You can still be a champion for your race and think of the country”…
    – Datuk Zaid Ibrahim.

    * It was his reply for those who criticised him for not being a true champion of the Malays and Islam.

    His reply slap hard on the “racist” Tourism Minister Datuk Seri Azalina Othman specifically, and rebutted by saying “that Malays and Malaysians will only benefit from the proposals”.

    HAhah… Super noble vs spitates today “you know who” xD

  148. m.hwang Says:

    Today at 18: 12.32 (50 minutes ago)
    Just wonder why no MPs from BN come out to pledge support to DSAI?

    ****************

    It’s a good question.

    In a properly functioning democratic Parliament (not Malaysia, say the US or the UK), when it comes to taking a vote count, do MPs have to pre-announce in advance how they will vote?

    Or do they just vote without pre-announcements, and without everyone knowing who will vote for what?

    This is similar, in the sense that since BN blocks the VONC previously, DSAI has no choice but to take this VONC outside Parliament.

    But to reveal the names now, would put him and PR at a huge disadvantage.

    Imagine if Muhyiddin is named publicly. You can just imagine all sorts of pressure piled on Muhyiddin. The press will hound him. TDM will hound him. Najib will hound him. Abdullah will hound him. Ku Li will hound him. In fact, some hardcore UMNO members might even see it to be their duty to assissinate Muhyiddin. His life would then be at risk, and he might need the Police to protect him, and even then, he won’t know whether the Police will be protecting him, or the Police will be forcing him to change his mind! You can obviously see how crazy it is to require DSAI to name Muhyiddin publicly.

    When in Parliament, there’s Parliamentary immunity against such hounding by all quarters.

  149. Worse, the Government controlled press will immediately pick on Muhyiddin, to discredit him in the public court by immediately labelling him as “TRAITOR” or something equally ludicrous. The ACA will be moved to act against Muhyiddin. etc. etc. etc.

    Under such conditions which are totally different from the conditions in a democratic Parliament where MPs can vote in accordance to their own conscience, it would only make sense that no MPs need to be forced to come out publicly to show support for DSAI, without some “agreed ground rules” established and agreed between both sides (BN and PR) first.

  150. Pak Lah should just let to Anwar form a caretaker government & mutually agree with Anwar on a date for General election:-

    1) Knowing full well that Anwar has indeed more than enough numbers to take over the Federal Government;

    2) His own house of UMNO is breaking up in all sides and will need a lot of time to be put back in order as to who is to lead; their new working relationship with the other component parties & so on and so forth..As it is now, UMNO is not in any condition to lead BN & the country.

    When BN has fullly reinvented themselves, they can call upon a general election to seek a definite mandate from the people. Fair & square!

  151. I support Anwar’s move to topple the BN government. That’s our only hope.

    Many commentators here argue that we should not emphasise too much the exact date of 16/9. Many also think that we should be patient as taking over a government is not easy. I must say that I completely agree with these sentiments. I would even say that Anwar should not have repeatedly claimed that he is confident of overthrowing the government by 16 Sept in the first place.

    We must not forget that no one forced the deadline on Anwar. It was entirely self-imposed. His repeated claim raises a serious question: either he was too careless to have neglected the technical difficulties (as many of you have pointed out) in his past reiteration of his confidence of achieving his goal by 16 Sept or he was simply bragging. Either way it does not go down well with the people. We have had enough of a flip-flopping PM who often goes back on his words and has great difficulties honouring his promises. We’ll be wary of a potential PM who starts to behave like this. If someone could repeatedly claim (on his own accord) that he is confident of achieving X by a certain date, but then give you a list of explanations on why X has to be postponed, what would you think of his promise to reform this and replace that and abolish this? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that he is quite likely to furnish excuses when he couldn’t fulfil his promises?

    You may say this to me: ‘Come on, do you think changing the government is easy? There are too many unforeseen circumstances and unexpected turns of events. Be realistic! It takes time. Be patient!’ Strangely, this is the sort of ‘reason’ provided by Abdullah (and the would-be principled politicians in MCA and GERAKAN) for BN’s inability to fulfil its promises to reform.

    My point is this. Anwar shouldn’t have made a repeated claim of being confident of achieving his goal by a specific date. But when he has chosen to impose such a deadline and to reiterate his confidence of achieving it by the deadline, the last minute backtracking is simply irresponsible.

  152. To summarise, it’s not very wise to promise something too difficult to achieve. But once you have chosen to make the promise and to reiterate it (for many, many times), then you must take up the responsibility to see to its fulfilment. This seems to me an essential quality of a good leader.

  153. Lee Wang Yen Says:

    Today at 19: 47.40 (13 minutes ago)
    To summarise, it’s not very wise to promise something too difficult to achieve. But once you have chosen to make the promise and to reiterate it (for many, many times), then you must take up the responsibility to see to its fulfilment. This seems to me an essential quality of a good leader.

    ***************

    Dear Lee,

    Let’s not be quick to judge.

    Remember – in the last 50 years – no one (i.e. NOBODY) else has successfully done what DSAI is trying to do.

    Calling this task “difficult” is hugely under-estimating it.

    More appropriate to label it “Impossible”. Or “An impossible task of Herculean proportions”.

    Yes, that “impossible”.

    And yet, it’s not over yet. Who says he doesn’t have the numbers? Can anyone say this at this point in time?

    What’s a few more days?

    If you are looking for a perfect leader – the one that can do the impossible – with no mistakes or downside, I can tell you he doesn’t exist in this world.

    If you think you can do better than DSAI, then, let me know so that I can vote for you to be the next PM of Malaysia.

  154. I respect the views expressed by Loh & Old Observer.

    However it should not be forgotten that although out of respect Anwar has asked for an audioence with the PM, the PM has however declined to see Anwar and PR’s leaders unless as a pre-condition the names of MPs and ministers defecting are first disclosed. Now Anwar & Pakatan have given some plausible reasons why their names should not be disclosed first in fear that they might be subject to either inducement or pressure to retract their commitment to PR. I can understand that.

    However we canot have a chicken-egg situation of which comes first: which is why I suggest Anwar seks an immediate audience with the King if he really hasdocumentary proof of the numbers defecting. This is because time is of the essence : if this chicken & egg situation persists, there will be time for reactionaries, vested interests and mischief makers within BN that will use the delay to concoct nefarious schemes to bring the country into precipice of violence just so to provide an excuse for a clampdown.

    I wish to underline the point that the sooner he “legitimises” and proves his numbers to either PM or the King, whoever the earlier, the better for it will cast any clamp down, if imposed, as on the light of something artificially created to thwart Anwear’s plans, and hence unjustifiable.

    If Anwar dillies dallies and procratinates, and such a clamp down were earlier imposed before he proves his numbers (to King or PM), such a clampdown may well be justified by its perpetrators based on Anwar being deceptive and telling lies without concern to harm on economy and stability of the country by such lies.

    On this ground I say Anwar should see the King (if he really has the numbers) rather than the PM who has no reason to see him since Anwar is the one evicting him from his position.

    To the extent that Anwar does not see the King fast when the PM has already made known that he doesn’t want to see Anwar unless Anwar first identifies the defectors, an adverse inference will be drawn against Anwar in playing this delaying chicken & egg game, that he actually does not have the numbers but lied about them….

  155. Many argue that Anwar did not reveal the number and names for fear of some repercussions (arrests, pressures on the MPs to change their mind, etc)

    Anwar sent the letter to PM yesterday. Had the PM agreed to meet him today, he would still have to reveal the names and even the signed documents to convince the PM that he has lost the support of the majority of MPs. And this is exactly what Anwar said he would do if and when he meets the PM. Couldn’t those repercussions happen in this case?

    So I still don’t see why he couldn’t reveal the names.

  156. YB Kit, can you please advise Anwar that his approach is untenable.

    If I were PM Abdullah Badawi I have everything right and force of reason to tell Anwar:-

    1. I have no reason to see him to accelerate my own ouster, exit and departure. I have every right to self preservation to stay in my seat.

    2. So if Anwar wants to push me out he has first to convince the King that he has the numbers. Why? Simple : the King is empowered by the Constitution to appoint me as PM and therefore with it the corollary right to dismiss me as PM and dissolve Parliament. So Anwar should seek audience with King – and not me, knowing that I don’t want to vacate my position and hence will not grant him an audience without him first proving to the me or more importantly the King that he has the numbers.

    3. His persistence in wanting to first talk to me – knowing fully well my precondition that he proves his numbers first that he has already explained why he won’t do so – is a deliberate attempt to create a chicken and egg dilemma that camouflages the fact that he really never has the numbers by 16/9 and merely finding away to cover and hide that repeated misrepresentation to his suporters and rakyat.

    Come on, I am not unreasonable, you prove to the Agong first you have the numbers – then you can talk to me about transistion.

    This is the position I will take if I were Badawi. I think it is a reasonable position.

  157. What makes us think that the defecting MPs won’t be pressured, lured, or even arrested after the names are revealed to the PM in his meeting with Anwar (presumably today), when we think that these would happen to them if their names were revealed in the media conference a while ago?

    Can’t the PM request to consider Anwar’s ‘offer’ for a few days while trying to lure, pressure and even arrest those MPs in the meantime?

  158. Jeffrey’s thesis that ‘Anwar’s failure to show the evidence of intention to defect to the right person (he thinks it should be the king) as soon as possible gives the “injured tiger” (Abdullah) an excuse for clamping down’ sounds very plausible to me. This thesis has to be taken seriously, if PAKATAN is serious about the well-being of the people.

  159. When arrogance is overrun by stubborness it is all over.

    Bodohwi can start planning his getaway in a yacht and carribean perhaps or a trip to fremantle.

    It is all over and all he does is give his losers smile and try laugh his way out.
    It is the same to the wananbe pm and the “saya yang mingikut perintah”

    Speeches with Smiles and ridicule is an escape act from a loser on the stage

    manned the exits points and bid farewell and dont ever come back.

  160. Zaid is Malay’s traitor, and what a wrong decision on his appointment to reform the Law in Malaysia. He has not contributed anything to this country and now he is using this as an excuse to join PKR? Zaid, I wish you all the best and hope you will treat your own race better in the future.

  161. At least I can see a smart and leader of principal in ZI. A big salute to you. Your are a man of your words. I pray Malaysia should have more leaders like you. But we should also give credit to AAB for opening up the media and more democratic ways of governing Malaysia as well as releasing DSAI. Credit also have to be given to him for closing up the Che det slanderous, racist outrage in his website to stir racial hagemony. Only weakness in him is he is too honest and soft hearted to be manipulated and make use of by all those around him.

  162. Kasim Amat if your daughter Tan Hoon Cheng and sister is Teresa Kok and father is RPK what would you say? Let say you are put under ISA by the botak for your call of traitor to ZI. Then would you dare to call ZI traitor?

  163. Judging others is easy, judging someone you dislike or you feel had betrayed you is so much easier.

    But it is even easier to blame and usually quite often than nought you yourself is to blame…

    why the hell you chose him in the first place are you not smart enough or you have taken a present.

    If sterotyping is in vogue then we can say these nkp and cronies have brains of mud and dung for not knowing their opinions are lacking in substance of basic intelligence.

  164. Kasim Amat,
    Believing in something to be the right thing does not automatically make you a traitor.
    He believed it to be. So who are you to say that it was awrong decision.He was the Minister of Law kawan.You are Minister of what?
    Now you say he has not contributed anything to the country.What may I ask has been your contribution.
    When did he say he is joining PKR? Ehmmmmmm.I can’t hear you!!!!
    What is the excuse? I cant hear you!!!!!.
    By the way, what exactly is it that makes him a traitor of the Malays?
    Grow up lah Kasim.Anything that does not fall in line with what your belief is anti-malay,anti this ,anti that.This is the 21st century.
    Time for you all to grow up.This world has had enough of your racism.

  165. You all can just see for yourselves the result of this gomen’s brainwashing of people like Kasim.Suddenly they all feel threatened by every action, remark or political shift.
    Very insecure people.
    Dato Zaid, don’t worry about your own people.They have well survived for hundreds of years and will continue to do so hereafter.
    It’s only the politicians who have told them that they are weak and need the big brother’s protection.
    And then they keep on feeding them this theory from the day they start understanding the political language of the party.
    People like Kasim, we should feel sorry for.

  166. What is most important to the rakyat is minimal disturbance and no bloodshed during the transition. I am sure saudara LKS has sufficient experiance on that in 513. If u r a good leader the change of power sooner or later is not important compare to minimal or no casulty during the pass over period(minimal or no casulty in term of financial, asset, capital and human resources). Nobody likes to see bloodshed like in Paksistan, financial turmoil like in Mexico, spate of asset and properties loss-bank raided, shops looted and supermarket robbed during a change in leaders. And finally the rakyat need to built up from scratch. So pls LKS advice our leader that as a respectable leader make sure that the transition is smooth and do not force the injured tiger to spring back and attack everyone -the nation as a whole. Give him some space to run and hide for his asylum.

  168. kentutoyol Says:

    Yesterday at 18: 54.11
    IF YOUR LIFE IS AT RISK….

    APPLY TO BE ARRESTED UNDER ISA.

    WHAT A CARING GOMEN!

    ************************

    Very FUNNY! Good one.
    Ok, let’s apply for ISA protection when Ah Long (illegal loan sharks)chasing for money! HAHAHA……..very funny!

  170. once in a while you get someone like zaid from the crowd, whether he is up to full credit for his deed remains to be proven.
    It is the nature of such people, so far he only dare to speak up to his master , and is a good sign but not the final person of a steadfast people’s hero yet.

    whatever lies in his intention remains to be seen, yes he is still a club member and like their club , it is a cave man club.

    And caveman club is going to have new office bearers, who knows he is advertising himself as many of them are confused that when they acted , they tends to assume they have acted for the nation as well.

    So as many readers who read blindly and accept blindly from people like these and self acclaiming de facto status that never was.

    So we will know who is a blind follower and who are the destiny creators.

    that coconut has expound himself as a keen defender of cave men thoughts but he does not know he has thoughts and opines of a follower.
    Most expound themselves here in solidarity of beliefs and values of a unique kind and most of them have genuine and originality of creators of thoughts …..deriving from thinkings outside the box..unlike thinkings derive within cave clubs within whims and fancies of mad arrogant men.

  171. Dear Lee Wang Yan,

    I agree with your view. If I were to be PM, I would do the same like what pak Laah did. Why must I entertain Anwar’s request. Who is Anwar to force his ambition on me.

    Anwar made the claim to topple PM by Sept 16. But until today PM is still the PM. So, who is the idiot here.

    Anwar claimed he has the numbers. No need to have PHD in nuclear physic to understand that Anwar would have sought the audience with Yang Dipertuan Agong should the claim is true.

    The truth is that he does not have the numbers. That is why BN still rules Malaysia.

    As for the Malays, this is a typical of “orang tak beriman”. He refuses to accept”Qada dan Qadar. In Malay language, he refuses to accept Allah’s wishes that Bn won the election but Pakatan won 5 states.

    BN won the election. that is the choice of the rakyat. As Anwar claimed of championing “Ketuanan Rakyat” , he should honour the decision of rakyat even if it is not in his favour.

  172. Dear Jefrey,

    May I enlighten you on Malay tradition. Pak Lah is the PM of the day and it is his duty to explain any major govt policies to Yang Dipertuan Agung.

    Whatever question His Majesty has, the King will have to ask the PM. It is improper to grant an audience to Anwar who in turn ( at the audience) will ask His Majesty to “sack” the PM of the day.

    PM can sack the Agong . Not the other way around. Please understand that is the position of PM in Malay culture. One Arab diplomat was speechless when our first Agong, Tuanku Abdul Rahman said that to him.

    Unless His Majesty is satisfied that PM has lost control of the Government( meaning like UMNO MPs in droves join Pakatan), he cant dismiss the PM.

    Besides, there is another alternatives, PM can advise him to dissolve the Parliament. and those who betray the trust by “frogging” to Pakatan will learn the unforgetable lesson; that is losing the election.

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