Former Selangor Mentri Besar, Datuk Seri Mohamad Khir Toyo thought he was doing the state, people and nation a great service when he tried to mid-wife a UMNO-PAS Selangor State Government after the March 8 general election.
He wrote on his blog that he arranged for a muzakarah between PAS leaders and the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi after the general election and offered PAS the mentri besar post, deputy mentri besar post as well as four executive councilors in a PAS-UMNO coalition government in Selangor to champion Malay interests.
There is some discrepancy in Khir’s account from that of Selangor PAS leader and MP for Shah Alam, Abdul Khalid Samad, who had attended the muzarakah, with the latter recounting that Khir wanted the Deputy Mentri Besar post although Khir claimed that he was willing to be left out of the state government line-up if that would encourage PAS to accept the “power-sharing”.
Khalid, who had described the muzarakah as “coloured with a racial agenda” of Umno, had denied that PAS harboured any intention of any power-sharing arrangement with UMNO in Selangor as PAS had already agreed to the proposal to name PKR’s Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim as Mentri Besar.
In the Berita Harian today, Khir was quoted as saying that discussion over his Umno-PAS power-sharing arrangement went on for four days but was unsuccessful because of external influences.
Right-thinking Malaysians must find it most shocking and outraged that the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, who had just presided over a RM100 million 50th Merdeka national celebrations and repeatedly pledged to be Prime Minister of all Malaysians and not just for any one race, could give his blessing and endorse the formation of a one-race, one-religion government for the most advanced state in Malaysia – Selangor – in the year 2008!
Abdullah owes all Malaysians a full and proper explanation!
I never trusted Khir Toyo when he was the MB of Selangor – too much red tape and blatant corruption. Especially when it was revealed that all former MPs have spent most of the money allocated for the citizens of the State of Selangor within the 50 days there were in office.
AAB would not be able to explain anything about the meeting — maybe fell asleep during the boring segments (brokering talks by Khir Toyo).
Every UMNO leader will ride on the imaginary Malay-unity unicorn when his position is threatened. The existent of the non-Malay population is conveniently forgotten.
I never trusted this aquiline-nosed liar of a PM. He lies without even blinking his eyes. Remember, how he confidently said Anwar’s DNA sample is old!
Talks and coalition or whatever blah..blah…blah… is just a scheme to weaken the opposition. Now that the gomen saw what the oppositions are capable of during the last election, they are trying to use the race issue to crack down the oppositions one by one. The easiest way is to go thru PAS which is pro-Malays. Try having talks on issues about non-Malays then.
In Star papers today, “somebody” said that unity among the Malays will also benefit the non-Malays, well… what kind of benefits? More subsidies for the bumis when it comes to buying houses? More quota for Malays in universities, thus continue to create more brain drain? Try to be fair to all Malaysians before giving such inequitable comments.
This is not about the country, this is about who gets the dough with the “convenient facility” (being the gomen). It’s not about any coalition or “power-sharing”. It’s like UMNO offering the dough they reap from the people to PAS, and telling them to shut-up and stop opposing. They know that with PKR, PAS and DAP’s increasing influence in this country’s political arena, it would be good to “buy-in” one of them.
Does anyone still believe in this Liar Pee Emm Bad awi? can’t anyone just get rid of him.. disgusting even to see his face.. why won’t he just vanish after all the curse he begotten from the people..
if MPs hopping is bad and morally wrong and like prostitution…what is this? asking a whole party to cross over with promises of positions etc.
so BN is no better than Anwar, in fact worse cos Anwar is not promising positions. Ok is subjective but KT has admitted it . Well Anwar is not a racist like BN and Khir Toyo.
BN party of double standards. They can ask people to hop to them like in Sabah and Bahau in NS and it is ok. They can ask for no confidence vote in Kelantan assembly. But if you do it against, them…god forbid….it is morally wrong, prostitution bla bla bla…seems BN and UMNO are like god …they can do no wrong, only other…Ptuiiiiiiiii…Piiiiilah.
PAS -Malays are not weak! Nor is Islam…it never is weak!! Islam hadhari is weak!!! KT and Pak Lah are weak!!!! UMNO is weak!!!! when there is no use for you, they will dispose you. at least in PR, what you see is what you get!!!
Abdullah gave blessing for a one-race, one-religion Selangor state govt because he wanted to ensure UMNO’s survival.
UMNO is a party that uses race issues to champion and justify its existence. The party will collapse if it stops harping on race issues and playing the race-card.
It is absurd for a political party to fan up racial sentiments to justify its existence and to win support.
before march 8th, khairy said PKR-DAP-PAS have only come together to win the elections. It was a marriage of convenience. He say it’s like people getting married to have sex for one night and then divorcing the next day.
what kind of prostitution is this that khairy’s party practiced after the election? UMNO was practically inviting PAS to “go to bed ” with it……..
what does Khairy call this ? Muzakarah or prostitution ?
Datuk Nik Aziz Nik Mat ‘s ” One does not get bitten by the same snake from the same hole twice ” ( Star 20/7/08 ) should go down as the quotation of the century . I admire Datuk Nik Aziz as a man who sticks to his principles and his vision for Malaysia . I trust PAS because he is there .
Both DSAI and PAS had been wooed by the government of the day for their support in times of need and must remember the bitter lessons learnt .Aren’t we now seeing a replay of history .
On the other front , Gerakan is fast becoming irrelevant because of the imbeciles in Penang who are such poor losers and can do no more than find fault with the state government .
Full of praise for PAS Youth’s response:
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/86610
drmaharajahrk Says:
UMNO was practically inviting PAS to “go to bed ” with it……..what does Khairy call this ? Muzakarah or prostitution ?
sodomy, my friend.
UMNO is the biggest traitor to formation of Bangsa Malaysia. Only fools will expect Prime Minister of one race to do fairness & justice to others.
Can we trust UMNO leaders/members anymore? They are always ready to strike the keris behind our back.
“There is some discrepancy in Khir’s account from that of Selangor PAS leader and MP for Shah Alam, Abdul Khalid Samad, who had attended the muzarakah, with the latter recounting that Khir wanted the Deputy Mentri Besar post although Khir claimed that he was willing to be left out of the state government line-up if that would encourage PAS to accept the “power-sharing”.” — LKS
With Khir Toyol’s stinking track record, not to mention how his wife handled all that charity money, only idiots will believe anything he says. The fact that Umno bears with such individuals such as him and Mat Tyson shows that they value people who can bring in the votes for them more than anything or anyone else.
He and Mat Tyson are like people who have been shot dozens of times in a paintball match, but just refuse to get off the arena. Shameless.
The voters in Selangor should give an even more overwhelming mandate to PR in the next elections to tell BN to get rid of such jokers.
Dear YB Lim,
If there is a need for any talk or muzarakah , than the agenda is for a Malaysian Unity and Anti Corruption .
Why Yab Abdullah Badawi had not called for such talks in the 2004 elections (when BN wins big by all the promises ) and Why Mr. Toyol , had not done so ONLY reflects their denial syndrome of not admitting that the raayat have rejected racial politics.
Being a Prime Minister for all MALAYSIANS and yet play racial card to be in power is sick and really sick.
Conversely, i suggest that PR have to set a common goal with a set time schedule for good governance. RACE DO NOT UNIFY,BUT RELIGION DOES. It has to be admitted that when comes to religion, it has a single calling for their followers and as such, DAP has better to clear the air with PAS.
Malays like the Chinese and Indians are as diverse as being Hokkien clan or Hakka clan . The Javanese and Bugis are so much different in languange and culture. Religion brings different groups together and it can happen between Pas and Umno, especially with our Prime minister of over promising to Pas. It would be sad indeed, that if it happened, and there goes our hope of being a Malaysian as equal.
Unfortunately, the “others” ;-BN component parties are silent on this matter. The difference lies in ( THAT ALL MALAYS ARE MUSLIMS , BUT NOT ALL NON MALAYS ARE OF THE SAME RELIGION ).
thank you.
as far as I know after years of being a Malaysian and being with the public in my daily life, the non malays never hate / dislike / disrespect the Malays.
Like wise the Malays also do not hate/ dislike /disresrect the non Malays.
The non Malays realise the Malays are the pribumis here. What I cant understand is why does UMNO always make the Malays hate the non Malays.
Isnt UMNO happy that this country is peaceful? Do they want us to be like Afganistan ?
Mr Toyol arranging for an UMNO-PAS coalition in Selangor? What is it suppose to mean? Asking PAS to jump ship? Or UMNO jumping ship in Selangor? And the accusation and suspicion of other BN partners jumping ship to PR? Where are the principles and integrity of those same players who admonished others who are contemplating doing the same act?
It seems to me that the leaders who have lost in the election are desperate and would resort to whatever that would reduce their shame and pain in the face of the public. Further to the face and pain are the loss of power, influence, monetary gains, projects, and the list goes on and on.
The federal government should put the GE2008 at the back, and instead concentrate on managing and administering the nation in a concerted and responsible manner. NO more scandals. No more back biting. No more bickering. No more plots. No more counter plots.
As for the PR, manage the five states your have wrested control in the best manner possible. And the rest can wait. The rakyat want positive an affirmative actions. They want to move on. They want to their daily bread to be on their tables so that their children could live a life they deserved.
Well, enough is enough of the unnecessary and disgusting politicking. Let common-sense prevail.
We, representing majority chinese in Klang Valley, we are fed up our PM, Bodohwi behaving worse than Johnny English. He is messing up Malaysia institution. He is not doing anything good to the nation. Bodohwi and Najis are just wasting time and we appeal to our good leaders like YB Anwar or Dr Mahathir to do something drastic to put Malaysia back to normal and become progressive.
When PM mentioned to the media that there were already three meetings with PAS he was looking very smug indeed. Let’s see him explain the botched plan for the one-race, one-religion govt in Selangor. As for Khir Toyo and the other Umnoputeras, they were catching at straws. When he was MB, he was known to say “coffin” instead of “coffer”. So, one will say money collected will “go to the state coffin”. And when he dies, he’ll be placed in a “state coffer”. Fitting end to a person, ain’t it?
By the way, please check out Malaysia Today with the title,
“An evening with an accomplice” – Pete has done another explosive article about his conversation with Saiful’s friend who made a confession!
never ever trust Umnoputras. exercise extreme caution with Pas. keep tap on Pkr. KToyo must be banished from malaysian politics forever for being a fascist.
If PAS succumed to UMNO’s seduction, they will surely dishearten a large number of electorates who voted for them. These voters turned from UMNO to PAS as they could no longer tolerate UMNO’s ugly faces. If PAS did not appreciate the trust bestowed on them and get associated with UMNO. I would say good luck to PAS, maybe next election PKR or DAP will get to collect the ballots, and dont be surprised that after next election, UMNO approaches uncle Lim or DSAI with a proposition to “share power”, haha.
Pardon the errors:
Mr Toyo arranging for an UMNO-PAS coalition in Selangor? What is it suppose to mean?…
The federal government should put the GE2008 at the back, and instead concentrate on managing and administrating the nation…
This good 4 nothing racist former MB still think that he is still relevant. Just keep an eye on his movement. He will find other means to bring down PR with the stolen wealth from the rakyat during his rule. Real greedy racist AH.
I was once a great admirer of of our sleepy and now racist PM. Now I feel disgusted 2 c his face whenever he appear in TV/Press etc… Sometimes I feel he talk garbage on race and national issues. Perhaps maybe his speech was written by his great OX-fart SIL .
“Abdullah owes all Malaysians a full and proper explanation!”
Don need 2 explain! Just KICK him OUT, lah…
Excuse me, I disagree with your statement of `one race, one religion Selangor state government’. You are manipulating the information.
Yes the discussions were between UMNO and PAS but the state government would have included other BN component parties such as MCA, MIC etc etc. So your illusion of `one race, one religion Selangor state government’ is not correct nor logical.
Besides, if DAP, PKR and PAS can get `married’ for convenience to form PR, I am sure UMNO can at least try to have an `arranged marriage’ with PAS. I am not a fan of both but its a political reality.
imranj78,
sure the state government would have included other BN component partied such as MCA, MIC……….
MCA wld have got one rep in charge of social work
MIC wld have got one rep in charge of unity
Gerakan and PPP will be the poster boys and the women wing will be cheer leaders.
UMNO will wallop all the major posts and leave the crumbs to PAS. PAS will chew those crumbs and spit out what in cant digest………now what is spat out by PAS will be “heated in the microwave” and eaten by MCA,MIC,PPP and Gerakan.
i rather not have these reps at all !!!
sodmy my friend is the second best phrase by captain
UMNO leaders.. all of them are machiavellian… as long as they can stay in power (power equals to wealth)… they do whatever they think necessary to achieve it.. I can’t tolerate them anymore… about the racist thing… I dont think that they are racist… they are opportunists… or may be schizoprhenic… they have many faces… one time they can be so liberal… another time can become pious muslims believe in Islamic State… one day they believe in multiculturalism, advocate power sharing and consensus… but another day they can be so Malay ultranationalists… see…. it is so obvious….
anyone over here ever been to a course organized by BTN??? i think it is still on going…. i think they only send Malays students and Malays public servants to that course… I dont want to disclose anything over here… can they trace from where I’m writing now??? quite scared…
Quite obvious why KT want to make sure S’gor do not fall into PR hands. Too many skeletons in his closet. Not to mention greed for $ & power. His botox jabs now cost double…so must sing Malay unity song coz running out of ideas how to stir trouble. PR must not fall into this trap & comment positively, not criticised. The subject of Malay unity is correct but not when played by VIPs like KT & PM. This is to try to encourage PR to provoke the matter & then they strike.
Imranj78, you really and sincerely believe that the muzakarah between UMNO and PAS was to enable the setting up of a multiracial and multireligious Selangor Government and not a Government based on Malay unity?
Yeah… position = power = wealth = money for botox jabs
Jeyklls and Hydes in Malaysia. Are you? (Answers below)
Jeyklls dan Hydes di Malaysia. Adakah anda? (Jawapan dibawah).
Posted at http://Patek1472.wordpress.com.
MPSPK,
so who is the chameleon that Lim Keng Yaik Was talking about ?
Anwar or the others in UMNO ?
Good luck to Malaysia!
BECAUSE ABDULLAH BADAWI IS THE PRIME MINISTER FOR ALL!
The only reason why I don’t hate BODOWI is because he is beyond stupid!!
Unity in Malaysia has to be the unity of ALL.
It’s ALL or never. Aren’t we in ONE ship? Aren’t we a nation?
Why discrimination? Why segregation? Why polarisation? Why race-based? Why parochialism? Why ethnic-centred policies? Why, why why?
We should look instead at creating an atmosphere of true unity, of brotherhood, of cohesion, of cooperation, of “berdiri sama tinggi, duduk sama rendah”, of mutual respect, of trust, of equal opportunity?
Aren’t Malaysians ready for this yet? I wonder.
I thought we were during the formative years of Malaysia?
During the 60’s and early 70’s while at school, I remember having great fun with my friends, ALL of them. We were colour blind to who we were. Mustafa Kamal, Zaharian, Ah Kau, Muthu, came over to my house for a drink or two after playing “street” football at the open space beside our homes…there was no suspicion, not even an inkling of it. My illiterate mother would tell the boys to come back again, whenever they wanted…”Mau ayak lagi ka”..she would ask.
Even the teachers then were great. There was a great sense of camaraderie. There was no indication of racial sensitivities. In the laid back township, with many surrounding kampungs and villages and estates, untoward racial or religious issues were unheard of.
Football games played in the town field were enjoyed by ALL. Public screening of movies in the same field was watched by ALL.
Along the line, something must have been altered and wrongly placed to have caused the unbecoming situation now? Polarisation at schools and institutions of higher learning becoming rife. Mistrust. Religions, which are supposed to be neutral and universal had been politicised and abused for personal gains, quota upon quota imposed to supposedly creating level fields had been made into some sort of board games for interested individuals and political parties, etc. etc.
Seems like our country had been wrongly governed and administrated for some time now. Perhaps it is time to go back to basics?
hello mr lim
i just wanna write what i think of this whole crap about muzakarah by UMNO.
just advise your new PAS friend that the malays are always united. their leaders just happen to have their political objectives different. they are just making up excuses that malays this and malays that. the ones who are shouting at each other are the corrupt and the just leaders.
advise them not to be disillusioned by this sudden enlightenment of UMNO jacks. if UMNO dies, malays will still remain, and they will have a better future. they will have the chance to become real malaysians just like other malaysians. they will find better leaders in the pakatan.
This two faced PM has finally shown his true color. I was suspicious of him before but, willing to give him the benefit of my doubt.
Now, I am fully convinced that not only he is useless, but a damn racist! Toyo, the leech and so seen a pious muslim could’nt wait to bribe PAS…having all his dirty tricks up his sleeves to get in by the back door, if he succeeded, to change the current govt. It is a pity, this born looser cannot accept defeat like a man. Toyo, retire and enjoy your ill gotten wealth with mamak and likes.
I hope all malaysian gets the points here.
PM for all Malaysian except Selangor !! This is showing how narrow it is the Umno gang. How can you compromise with Umno in Politic.
MCA, MIC, PBS and other BN components, DON’T YOU GUY SEE IT !! Umno is an EVIL to Malaysian, they hate to see all Malaysian stood up togather indeed. What kind of Islam of Umno ?
Badawi, the grandson of a Hainanese immigrant, and Khir Toyo, the son of an Indonesian immigrant, colluding to form an illegitimate state government against the wishes of the people. How can anyone in the right minds ever vote for UMNO again ?
GODfather, it is obvious PM has more Indonesian than Hainanese blood in his veinlah….Hainanese ppl are suppose to be quite smart whereas Bodowi is simply just dumb!
When he’s in Chinese company he want s to be more Chinese and among Malays he’s their abang-adik. That’s Chief Imam of Hadhari, grandmaster of duplicity!
Uncle Kit,
WHat explanasi do you want?
He is racist lah!
Even buta can see.
That stupid dentist KT is trying at it again. What does he hope to gain. He has yet to explain where the money from charity has gone to. (wife went shopping in London with fat mama?) Wants to get credit from sleepy PM for what he has done? Correct, both cling on to each other and sink together to hell!
GET ALL THE PROVE FROM THE PREVIOUS BN GOVERMENT FOR CORRUPTION.SHUT KHIR MOUTH ONCE AND FOR ALL.SELANGOR WAS THE MOST CORRUPTED STATE.
ASKED ANY DEVELOPER FROM SELANGOR.
MIC,MCA,PPP,GERAKAN must make a police report… That they was sodomize by UMNO.
What are the lapdogs MCA, MIC & Gerakan saying about this? Why so quiet?
Are they still alive?
KennyGan, they are dogs mah… hence no rights! The Cats got their tougues!
Kenny, they are busy
– transferring money to Australia, NZ and Switzerland
– buying horses, land and houses overseas
– looking for ways to pocket some money from billion-ringgit projects
– securing deals for their sons
– getting scholarships for children and relatives
– spending time overseas to fulfil PR requirements.
Toyol has been swept away by the broom he once gave to others.
as for Fak Lah, his time is running out.. Tick, tock… Tick, tock…
One minister cited the logic that “when Malays unite, non-Malays also benefit.”
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/7/23/nation/21892867&sec=nation
Often, I hear people saying “when Malaysians unite, there will be much much more quantifiable benefits.”
What about these questions?
If only Malays are united, and non-Malays are left disunited, will there be benefits?
If non-Malays are united and Malays are not so united, will there be less benefits?
Which is easier to unite? A smaller race in numbers or otherwise?
I don’t think that AAB endorsed the formation of a one-race, one-religion government for Selangor, primarily because PAS is coming out of his racial politics shell and understands that to win and to lead states, it needs to put the most competent people in charge of responsible positions, even if they are non-Malay.
In terms of one-religion government, what the non-Muslims need to understand is that one-religion government in no way, shape or form means anti non-Muslim. If you take the example of Kelantan where PAS have ruled nearly 15 years, the discerning vistor will see there is no oppression or injustice towards the non-Muslim minorities. Again, PAS has no qualms in placing non Malay and non Muslims in high positions as circumstance demands it.
Hi drmaharajahrk,
I concur with you on the ground , generally there are no hate feelings between non-bumis and bumis or malays as I too had come across in my every day life.But one thing you must comprehend here that,when it comes to voting most of our malay bros and sis’ tend to vote BN back to power.
Thats because there are 2 groups of malays amongst the BN supporters.One group is a die hard fan of BN simply because they are in one way or another have some political affiliations.This brings them all the govt contracts,business licences and so forth.
The other group is comprised of those malays who distrust the other `kaums’,eventhough they are aware of the fact that BN stooges are taking them for a ride.The reason is simply because they are
It is a great shame that the PM, who is “PM for all” (my shit) even agreed to lure PAS to form the State government of Selangor. I don’t think Toyol has the brains to arrange for this meeting on his own. So it must be AAB who mooted it as he desperately tried to hold on to UMNO power in Selangor in particular. Actually he should committed hara-kiri on the night of 8th March.
I hope all the blind voters who are still supporters of BN (the MCA, Gerakan, MIC, PPP dll.) realize the actual situation. I hope they open their eyes and see what our “beloved PM” tried to do.
This is the last kopek- if it does not work it is habis BN. Try to visualize the enormity of it. Tens of thousands of parasites will die. The system they built carefully in the half century will be thrown out, and they are Unsuited, Unfit in a better system that is people orientated. Not that we don’t want them earning an honest living – they prefer to maintain the system they grew into.
And the most important probability is the exposure of damning corruption of the entire brood of people’s representatives if PR rules nationally!!! Gee whiz, even their wivies have gotten into the game of looting.
Will they surrrender without a titanic struggle?
The sadest part is the elected representatives have yet to understand that there is such a thing as self dignity, accept that they should work for the people, and to really do something for the nation, now that it is within their power to chose which side is the right side. Our side that is.
We failed to unseat the BN this time, and maybe we will never have the fair chance to try in the next election. Maybe it is too late for the voters. The last hope is with the elected representatives. And I don’t think they will measure up, seeing that some are tempted by self gain offered by Toyol. They paused to take stock of the offer.
This kopek appeared to have failed. So,
I am fearful of the exceptionally smart home security measures of Syed Albar, and the cutting edge science that DNA is spoilable!
CORRUPT EXTREMIST!
Kathy Says:
Today at 15: 34.40 (6 hours ago)
I never trusted Khir Toyo …”
..and that makes you 1:23,999,999. No shi^t!
Yahoo Asia News (Wednesday July 23, 7:26 PM)
———————————————-
“For now, I have no reason to question the intention of the PAS leadership. They have given an assurance to me that the collaboration with the opposition remains and is unchanged,” he (Anwar) said.
PAS youth chief Salahuddin Ayub told AFP that there will be no more “secret meetings” with UMNO.
“We remain committed to the opposition pact. We will work together. We will not discuss with UMNO the issue of power sharing,” he said.
Hi peterchiang, to your question, I would reply that it would be more difficult to unite the non-Malay minorities because of the fact there are so many diverse and subsect views and values. This is also true for the Malays, but there is more of a rapport between them simply because they share the same faith.
If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’? Why do we still identify ourselves with our ethnicity and languages? Bangsa Malaysia is about having a strong common platform that everyone can recognise, relate to and share with. Where is this common bond between the different ethnicities and religions?
Please also feel free to see my post on the “UMNO-PAS Malay Unity talks” thread:
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/07/22/umno-pas-%e2%80%9cmalay-unity%e2%80%9d-talks
On BN, I would say that their days are numbered because for far too long, they have ignored the winds of change (which are getting stronger) and the mismanagement of national wealth and having no foresight for national development as they once did. The alternative to BN may not be as straightforward as you might think though.
afarid that their rights will be taken away by the other kaums.We cant blame them for having such an outdated notion as UMNO putras have been hammering such an idea into them for more than 30 years.Therefore this group has developed a siege mentality and they feel that their lives will be worse off under an opposition controlled govt.This is the weakness of NEP here.Now this is the group which is undergoing a great dilemma.This is the group Pak lah is trying to attack by using PAS now.
The 3rd group comprises of the educated and enterprising malays who opted for the PAKATAN team.This group of malays are sick and tired of being labelled as weak and unable to stand on their own feet.Therefore they decided to upheld their pride and dignity by choosing the PAKATAN party,also a small number under this group are protest voters against BN.But this 3rd group is simply too small in number to effect any major change in our nation’s political landscape.
Therefore its now in the hands of our malay brethrens to bring about the much awaited change now.Its now or never.Otherwise they only have themselves to blame if the country rots further.They should emulate the Indian youngsters who were successful in educating their elders to vote against BN and MIC in the recent 12th GE,and nearly annihilated MIC in a few important electorates.In my opinion a UMNO-PAS colloboration is nothing short of a doom for the future of Malaysia,as PAS will be thrown off once UMNO putras gain the political upper hand again.
To the stupid MCA leaders, so it is all right for your UMNO masters to talk to Pas leaders but not okay for DAP leaders. You are but a bunch of hypocrites. Well done Dr. Tan for leaving MCA to join PKR. Well done Dr. Tan for telling the Gerakan leaders to jump into the Klang river.
“I don’t think that AAB endorsed the formation of a one-race, one-religion government for Selangor, primarily because PAS is coming out of his racial politics shell and understands that to win and to lead states, it needs to put the most competent people in charge of responsible positions, even if they are non-Malay.” zak_hammaad
I understand you are trying to do some damage control here. And since you are speaking on behalf of PAS here, let me ask you a question. Why is it that PAS agreed to Muzakarah with UMNO on a platform of Malay unity and Islam? At the same time, it’ll be great if you can elaborate further what can be positively achieve from such talks and secret meetings.
As for your last posting you commented: “If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’? Why do we still identify ourselves with our ethnicity and languages? Bangsa Malaysia is about having a strong common platform that everyone can recognise, relate to and share with. Where is this common bond between the different ethnicities and religions?”
Don’t you think you have to think again that it just doesn’t make sense?
this is wat DNA all about:
Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms .
faklah,organisms,not orgasms ok?wat?did u say ogre?nononnono!but yes,u r a dumb ogre!
When PAS muslims saw girls wearing miniskirt they get turn-on, instead of being thankful, they blame the girls for it. Common bond? That’s plain hypocrite.
Zak-hammaad talks cock. You wouldn’t mind a chinese or indian-led government then? It wouldn’t be anti-Muslim too you know.
So a one race (malay)/one religin (muslim) goverment is okay while a chinese/indian/buddhist/christian/hindu government is not okay? Ada otak kah? Brain suppose to be in the head, not in the ass.
Don’t talk about competence. Have you ever been to school with Chinese and Indian kids?
When UMNO muslim saw pretty girls, they go after her, once they finished with her, they c4ed her. Common bond? Yep, PAS and UMNO were long lost brothers trying to find common bond. Bangsa Malaysia?
MCA should say something, because they always object to PAS.
SearchforJustice,
Yes I do believe that UMNO and PAS (if they did get together), would not dare/able to create a single race single religion state government. This will be suicidal for UMNO and the end for BN as its component parties would be very unhappy. This particular article is just simply putting wrong ideas into people’s mind. Remember, each article you read on this blog is political in nature so we need to be critical and not accept everything face value :)
dr suresh kumar,
I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many malays you would say successful and do not need NEP to survive that still believe BN is the best choice forward. I think it just your `illusion’ that all successful and independant Malays are against BN. I think for some from this group, BN is the lesser of two evils and they see some light at the end of the tunnel with BN where else with PR it is endless darkness. Of course some feel otherwise but to say the group is heavily slanted to one side is ignorant at best. I must say that PAS is one party in PR that is head and shoulders above PKR and DAP though.
Before election, PAS swears at UMNO as if UMNO is the infidel, UMNO in return, swears at PAS as the extremist, after election, they have secret meetings, then suddenly, they can talk about Malay unity and Islam?
I urges PAS to leave Pakatan Rakyat ASAP to join UMNO.
i felt sad for Malays who had been cheated by UMNO for the past donkey years claiming they UMNO are protecting the rights of the Malays,as always been claimed by the previous pariah MM Kutty,that countrys’ wealth to be equally shared to attain racial harmony blah blah…at the end of the day only those Putras are having fat pockets.if you dont believe me turn to TV3 wednesday nite 9pm-1Opm see it your self how UMNO taking care of the rural Malays.In today’s world of NO boundaries + IT technologies are handy are we to forget some otak udang kolop MP claimed in parliment that confidently 1day 2soon Malay language wud be an international language???just with the 16millions Malays in Malaysia???then what abt 22Omillions Indon,so to say Indon are idiot NOT putting Indon language internationally???Just chat in general with the younger generations,and we can judge how good is their international language-English.from the press i read today it is reported that khir toyo had accused Amwar of derailing the plan of Malay unity talk with PAS.WHO is toyo to claim Malay unity whereas he himself as an indon???is he following the foot path of that pariah MM Kutty to self claim Malayu???
I also hope that the PAS-UMNO alliance and together with other BN component parties can set up an Islamic state ASAP and wishes them success. I will be very happy for the Malay in particular.
dawsheng,
PAS-UMNO talks doesn’t necessarily have to lead to an alliance. It can be a bipartisan relationship in nature where they is a general understanding on certain matters which both parties agree upon. This is good for democracy in the long term. The Americans are strong in this and they vote bipartisanly on matters they feel strongly about irrespective of which party they come from.
But the important thing is to also not go too far. The Italians are famous for this and they have had like 51 governments in like 45 years due to too frequent `marriages of convenience’ between their parties.
imranj78, with due respect, the Americans have Lincoln, what do we have? Malay unity and Islam?
dawsheng,
also with due respect.. Lincoln? Yes he is an influential figure but I doubt very much Lincoln created the American style democracy that we see today. Better luck next time mate!
What’s wrong with Malay unity and Islam? Are you saying you rather see Malay and Islamic disunity? To me, as long as the rights of the non-Malays and non-Muslims are not stepped upon, the discussions should and must go on.
Toyo is the most corrupted politicians Malaysia ever produced!
If this sumbag is not corrupted, why would he send in helicoppers to ransack his office once the news that PR had won big in Selangor?
We must send blood sucker Toyo back to his hometown Sulawesi immediately!
Imranj78, I presume you mean that UMNO-PAS will not set up a Government with some subservient lapdogs such as MCA, Gerakan and MIC but a Government which is truly multiracial and multireligious, based on a real partnership of all the component parties. If that is the case , then I am of the same wave length as you. I think people of all races would strongly support a Malay PM and a Malay leadership that give some respect and face to all the component parties of the ruling coalition.
DEar IMranj,
It is refreshing once in a while to read a fair comment in this forum. Yes Sir, I agree with you. What is wrong with that. I see nothing wrong in Dr Khir’s act in trying to form a coalition govt between PAS and UMNO.
What is wrong with that? There is nothing sinister about that. Lim Kit Siang of course cant stomach it. Anything that strengthen the Malay supremacy in politics of course is bad to him.
To him, only anti malay attitude is correct. As such UMNO must be portrayed as bullying MCA, MIC, Gerakan. UMNO is accused as behaving like senior partner. Just like DAP in Penang.
UMNO is the senior paretner in BN. Matematics do not lie. other parties like Gerakan, MCA, MIC accorded UMNO such recognition simply because it has the most influence among BN members.
UMNO is accused as racust. If UMNO is racist, it simply put a Malay as BN candidate in Ijok byelection. Anwar was telling Ijok residents to choose between a mosque and a temple. BN could simply use racial line if it really wanted.
But it stood on its platform. It still allows a non Malay as a candidates. And it is not a rarity. In areas like Kulim, Lunas, Tapah, Lenggong, Kuantan, non Malay BN candidates contested in Malay majority areas.
As for Boneka, well there is a saying that “mannerism maketh a man”. No need to stood that low resorting to name calling.
And Dawsheng, what do you mean that ‘when UMNO muslim saw pretty girl…”.Mulut jangan celupar, as goes the sayng.
Our Malay friends have almost everything going for them, so why and what are they fearing of?
Some politicians are bent on making it to look like they are going to lose whatever they have or are entitled to, and in the process stir the sentiments and emotions of their fellow folks. And hence achieving to create suspicion and a not so friendly stance among the masses against their non-Malay fiends who had been and are still slogging hard to make ends meet, or to save enough to see their children through college or university?
The politicians are mostly well heeled or have access to all sorts of projects or contracts to last generations, unless they throw away their wealth in pursuit of bungalows / flashy cars / overseas holidays / etc. , etc.
Whereas their folks in the kampungs are left in their state of neglect and poverty. Then some so-called opportunists would make a sandiwara to do good by doling out some form of tokens, and get some publicity in return to make them look good in the eyes of their chiefs. And then there may be recommendation for coveted titles which they craved for, to boost their ego and image in the eyes of those similarly disposed.
All these are done at the expense of true work and service which would certainly go a long way to bring the much needed progress and development to the communities and country.
Lots of time, resources, energy, opportunities, etc., etc. are wasted. The victims are the ordinary folks, Malay, Chinese, Indian, and all our brothers and sister, natives or otherwise. All Malaysians suffered to some extent in one way or another, except, of course the well-connected.
When would all these be put to a stop? So that those who truly deserve aid and assistance would get them? I believe if there are no wastages and mismanagement (corruption, embezzlement, plundering of nation’s coffers), there would be more than enough for all, and there would not be any need for quota upon quota which would be employed to direct funds and opportunities to all children of the country.
Malaysia would be standing much taller than it currently is, and there is no need for a strong opposition political entity to fight for justice and the NGOS would do what NGOs would normally do, which is to complement the administration to further improve the nation in all aspects.
dr suresh kumar, I doubt that many Malays actually believe their lives would be worse off under an opposition controlled govt. In fact, BN are afraid that opposition led states will lead a better example of governship and bring home the idea that Malaysians no longer need to be afraid of the unknown when voting against BN. This is an incentive for the opposition to show their strength and an opportunity for BN to mend their ways unless they are forgotten in the dustbin of history.
Power hungry elite are avaiable in every political party, make no mistake about that.
Dear YB Lim,
As a Muslim, a Malay, Malaysian and staying in Selangor, one of many Malays that I can never trust for good – the x Selangor MB,
Khir Toyo. Period!!!.
http://www.kerajaanrakyat.com/
Yes I agreed.
Mismanagement and abuse of POWER.
All the WEALTH of the country is wasted and affect the whole nation.
Everyone will be POOR as a result.
Cant see any leadership in the country in the ruling BN govt.
SEE. The Terengganu MB buy 14 MERC. and criticise the PROTON.
See the PM cant managed 2 guys fighting for MB post for Terrengganu and 2 guys for Perlis.
Cant managed 4 people inside the UMNO party.
How to manage 27 Million people.
TELL ME THE ANSWERS? PLEASE shamshul anuar
dawsheng, I do not ‘speak for PAS’ and it is these assumption and allegations that are making Malaysian politics the laughing stock of the world.
As to why PAS agreed to Muzakarah with UMNO on a platform of Malay unity and Islam; I believe I have answered a little of this over at the “UMNO-PAS Malay Unity talks” thread. It would however be prudent to point out that race and religion have become so intertwined in Malaysian politics, pulling them apart will need more than a generation of reform.
I think you are reading too much into AAB’s comments. UMNO at the moment, is at the losing edge and need to be seen to be capitalising on anything that can be spun their way. PAS is neither naive (from past experiences with UMNO) nor short-sighted to see that they are the lynchpin.
Malay unity is a pre-requisite for national stability. The opposition understands this well, hence the reason why they do not object to the mudhakara.
I’m sorry you were not able to understand my paragraph about ‘bangsa Malaysia’. Let me help you through it. I wrote:
>> If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’?
Most non-Malays continue to identify themselves with the country of their namesake. We continue to identify ourselves with the languages we speak and with the culture we are ingrained with from our namesake countries (i.e. India and China). We continue to seek a heritage that runs paralell to Malaysia’s own. Do you think these things facilitate or impede the “Bangsa Malaysia” concept?
>> Bangsa Malaysia is about having a strong common platform that everyone can recognise, relate to and share with. Where is this common bond between the different ethnicities and religions?
If you want to work for a “Malaysian Malaysia”, you need to define, show and lead by example how this can be accomplished with so many different ethnicities and religions and values that Malaysians hold?
Thank you…
Actually, my personal opinion is that Malaysian politics need another 50 years to mature…….whenever it is, is still somehow fall back to “race-based”…..in the end of the day is still “Malay” and not Malaysian.
Here is an old Grandfather story, you all must remember and pass on
**************************************************
” Ahmad and Ali is piloting a ship, and Ah chong and Muthu are passengers. Is a ship policy that Ahmad and Ali play the piloting role and the navigating role. So they just enjoy piloting the ship. Ah Chong and Muthu were instructed to work hard around the ship as maintenance and cleaning etc etc, so their experiences and understanding of the ship gradually increase.
One moment, while Ali and Ahmad happily piloting the ship, Ah Chong and Muthu realise that the ship must change direction as it will go thru the tidal waves and the ship’s engine cant sustain it so they warned Ali and Ahmad. But Ali and Ahmad ignored them as they believe is their rights to determine where the ship sould sail. So the ship went thru the wave but was successful (due to the perfect maintenance and condition maintained by Ah Chong & Muthu), leaving many casualties for Ah Chong and Muthu to repair and clean them up. They just do what was instructed because is Ali and Ahmad’s rights to ask them to do so.
And later there is a whirlpool infront whom Ah Chong and Muthu really confident that the ship wont survive this time. But then again Ali and Ahmad ignored, citing that is not up to Muthu and Ah Chong to decide which direction the ship should go. Muthu and Ah Chong just sit quietly seeing the ship go in the whirlpool…………..”
**************************************************
Khir Toyo, before you attempt to struggle on the news once again.
Please explain the reason why your office destroy documents shortly after Selangor was conquered by Pakatan Rakyat. Dun think that we have forgotten.
You piece of corrupted shit, as far as I know you are already history and a joke since 8th of March.
So be prepared for the worst. After the ACA guys took care of the immigration rats, eventually Bodohwi will have to set more umno-heads rolling in order to please the people.
And I hope yourswill be on that list. Enjoy.
UMNO should not be made a vehicle or medium to get connected to the powers-that-be for their own hidden agendas or ulterior motives.Same goes for other race-based political parties.
A political party should just be a political party. To uphold principles and missions which are for the greater good of the nation and all her citizens.
I hope to see politics and political parties which are non-race based flourishing in the country, so that there would not be time wasting on unnecessary squabbling and bickering among the people. The draining of the nation’s coffers in unproductive, illegal, and unwarranted ways should be stopped immediately at all cost.
Sad!
The non muslim are scared that alot of their rights will be taken away once PAS join BN.
Even now there are so many examples.
1.Closing down of all 4D outlets.
2.Consumption of alcohol
3.Difficulty in buying pork.
4.entertaintment like female singers.
5.forcing of islamic laws on non muslim.
We must remember we are a secular nation.It is not wrong for non muslim to do those things that i have said.
The other thing is BN Government have good policies but only on paper.EVERY WHERE WE LOOK WE CAN SEE CORRUPTION AT WORK.The UMNO led BN government is not serious enough in its fight on corruption.
From 2001 to 2006, 71,872 cases of corruption was repoerted to ACA.But less then 7000 cases was investigated.Out of this only 432 people was sent to prison.Lets not talk on the latest arrest of IMIGRATION DIRECTORS . This cases will drag on for at
least ten years if they sent to prison only time can tell.
UMNO can only survive by its racial slants and totally bankrupt of ideas. They just want to survive at any costs.
The “soothing” melody of the non-Malays will benefit if the Malays are united is farcical and presumptuous and might be true or untrue, depending on under which banner they are united. If under UMNO, I really do not see how it can benefit the other races as proven time and again that UMNO will only want to step on the Malays to pluck their fruits and the only person to benefit is UMNO and some connected Malays but most Malays and non Malays will suffer. Might have a better chance if they are united under PAS.
I am sad that there are still some leaders from MCA who are still so naive to believe them or just want to bodek them. On the other hand, it will hold true that every community will benefit if everybody is united. MCA please send them this message instead of accepting hook line and sinker on what they tell.
zak_hammaad Says: “If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’?
Most non-Malays continue to identify themselves with the country of their namesake. We continue to identify ourselves with the languages we speak and with the culture we are ingrained with from our namesake countries (i.e. India and China).”
Further shamshul anuar Says:”What is wrong with that? There is nothing sinister about that. Lim Kit Siang of course cant stomach it. Anything that strengthen the Malay supremacy in politics of course is bad to him.”
Firstly, most Chinese don’t consider China their home especially the younger generation. When we go to CHina we don’t feel at home at all. At the end of the day Malaysia is our home and we would like to be buried here. In fact it hurts when people tell us to go back to China cause what is there to go back to? Migrating to China is no different than migrating to Australia because they are both alien countries to us.
The Chinese are very practical people. If national schools have the best teachers, best facilities and environment that can nurture and churn out graduates who are well equipped to meet the challenges in the workplace, we will definitely send our kids there. As we all know because of the overzealous policies of affirmative action most of the teachers can’t speak proper English and are not of the quality we have been used to. Our standards are dropping no point denying it.
If the emphasis in education is on merit we will definitely see an increase in the quality of our national schools. When national schools achieve such excellence don’t you think the Chinese will send their kids in droves, being practical people?
Of course preserving our own culture is crucial for it is the foundation of our values and ethics in everyday life. In time these cultural values will mutate and inevitably be intertwined with the other cultures in Malaysia and an end result a unique Malaysian culture. This is Bangsa Malaysia.
However if our politicians keep talking about Malay supremacy this Ketuanan Melayu that how the hell is it going to help in terms of national unity? You cannot have a cake and eat it!
On the one hand we are told that we are all Malaysians but on the other hand we are told to tow the line and don’t question so much about Malay unity, just work hard and pay your taxes. If any politician comes and tell me about Chinese unity I will certainly give him a good lecture. Wake up guys!
Let’s talk about Malaysian unity. Malaysians Unite. Let’s talk about Bangsa Malaysia. Let’s talk about special rights for the poor, the handicapped and the underpriviledged. Until you stop emphasising on race we will continue to grow weaker and further apart. Remember…we are not the others, we are Malaysians. The others are out there!
M.Hwang, you are right about Chinese being a practical lot. That is why Chinese medium schools are overflowing with students — Indian and Malay children are going there too.
The urban and rural folks need to share the same vision of Bangsa Malaysia. We need to correct the wrong that BN has done.
It was 5 years ago when MCA people were making the case that Abdullah would represent a new phase in racial relationship in this country that I argued that Abdullah in the end is still a racist. Those who don’t believe so should believe this now.
There are all sort of racist not just those obvious Nazi/fascist like we all have come to know. There are closet racist, those who appear normal and friendly to everyone but deep down has insidious agendas. Then there are those unconscious racist, those who are but does not even know it. Badawi is probably an unconscious one where his excuse is that he is defending his race and religion. The problem with this kind is that how racist they are NOT depend on how knowledgeable and intelligent they are and we know our PM don’t rank high on that. The other problem with the unconscious racist are they are tools of the insidious racist, those who work behind with the most vile and evil plan. They are equally wrong maybe much worst especially when their character, knowledge and intelligent fails them.
Badawi has already declared he is NOT for a secular state although my sense is he is double conflicted by his lack of understanding what that really mean AND that his religious obligation necessitate him to fight the concept.
His support of a racist-religo state is not surprising when you view his duality without any rose colored glasses which is what I charged MCA of being 5 years ago.
He was totally rejected by the people of Selangor and yet he thinks the world of himself – such a sauve Malay supremist.
Time he took a good look at himself in the mirror.
How much corruption, misdeeds, abuse of power he committed while in office.
Even his wife is into it banking funds into her a/c after BN lost Selangor.
Time to find his corrupt deeds and put him behind bars.
You dont need to have more than simple INTELLIGENT to know that if they are SINCERE to have ONE RACE and ONE RELIGION
The federal govt should do away UMNO, MCA, GERAKAN,MIC and ……
Form a NEW MULTI RACIAL party call ABC.Then we on the way to Bangsa Malaysia.
This we call LEADERSHIP by example.
We are segregated by RACE ,RELIGION,….
mad dollah has no money for Penang’s monorail and PORR, but has BILLIONS for nuclear plant and submarine cables
http://anilnetto.com/accountability/energy-madness-nuclear-plant-12-dams-undersea-cables/#more-609
bLOODY RACIST USING MALAY RACE FOR HIS OWN POCKET. oF COURSE HE NEEDS ALOT OF MONEY FOR BOTOX. i DON’T BELIEVE PAS WILL TRUST THAT GUY UNLESS dR M IS RIGHT. MELAYU SENANG LUPA.
Guys,
If you all keep on acting like anti-malays, I believe a one race, one religion will soon be a reality..pls do not touched our sensitivity in any all of your comments, even now, most of us last time was purely behind DSAI become a bit confused and re-assessing our stance because of your racist remarks, it hurt us and no good for other races
Please don’t make us angry, coz you wouldn’t like us when we are angry, be careful with your remarks, be it you are chinese, indians, mat saleh or even malays
You know what guys, at the end of the day many of us want similar things. A united country with a stronger sense of a Malaysian identity rather then racially based identity. This Malaysian identity would be a mix of all the races but it is inevitale that this identity would be strongly influenced by the majority in Malaysia which are the Malays. What do you guys thing? Isn’t this just natural and right?
dbrutal,
I agree with you in the sense tha many people especially the Malays are reassessing the views on DSAI now especially with some of his antics and some of his PR coalition partners. This is unfortunate as we are close to a good two party democracy and this could all go down the drain because of political greed.
“Guys,
If you all keep on acting like anti-malays, I believe a one race, one religion will soon be a reality..pls do not touched our sensitivity in any all of your comments, even now, most of us last time was purely behind DSAI become a bit confused and re-assessing our stance because of your racist remarks, it hurt us and no good for other races”
Tell us, what and how does it hurt you and in what way? Maybe you can be more specific as to what area did other people hurt you? It is not other people who are doing anti-malays, it is UMNO themselves you make 90% of the people believe that non Malay are anti Malays. I thought you already learned that from history. Why are you repeating the same mistake and fell into the same trap of sentiment mentality where other people are out to hurt you?
Why would you even doubt DSAI? Given the situation now where he is being attacked in all directions by the goverment, do you think it is easy for him? The shameless goverment which was supposed to be brought down is still sitting up high and migthy playing with racial cards, and you put the warning on people who commented on blogs as playing with anti Malay sentiments??? I just dont understand you.
“Please don’t make us angry, coz you wouldn’t like us when we are angry, be careful with your remarks, be it you are chinese, indians, mat saleh or even malays”
You can choose not to be angry and ignore hurtful remarks, or would you rather choose to be angry and be blinded by anger and lose all sense of reasonable mind and go all way out to hurt people and be branded as a BAD BAD PERSON? You are an adult, you are responsible on your own actions. If you are angry, what makes you think that other people are not angry as well?
“A united country with a stronger sense of a Malaysian identity rather then racially based identity. This Malaysian identity would be a mix of all the races but it is inevitale that this identity would be strongly influenced by the majority in Malaysia which are the Malays. What do you guys thing? Isn’t this just natural and right?”
This I agree, but looking at the current situation, the current goverment will definitely shoot this idea down. Time and again their actions does not match their words. They are still preaching Ketuanan Melayu left right and centre. Why are still believing them? Why dont we choose a better alternative? Why do we still get carried away on the RACE part where one RACE is the TUAN the other is the HAMBA? That is the SAME IDEA AS NAZI.
If the UMNOputeras are reading the comments here thus far, they are going to be gloating and gleeful as they have managed to cause some form of consternation among those logged in. It’s from the beginning being their strategic plan after the March 8 election to cause some split in PR and among the various bloggers and races and at the same time DIVERT attention from their other current sinister acts and plans.
Please do not fall into UMNO’s trap.
Agreed wit you YB! Actually it is not about malay itself! tha muzakarah actually is for UMNO survivor.
Umno sekarang ini terlalu nazak dan terdesak! mereka Ingin menjerat orang lain…maka, PAS menjadi sasaran! Mujurlah, PAS tidak sebodoh disangka!
YB,
DAP is still seen as a Chinese party. Is it not time to talk to PKR about a merger? Wont this be the true representation of the wishes of all Malaysians as seen in the ballot box?
And shouldn’t PKR/DAP merged party then pull in PPP/Gerakan/MIC/MCA etc into the merger as the true representative of Malaysians?
One party…………for Malaysians!
That would be the way forward.
zak_hammaad,
India is a nation of many different and diverse peoples who have different religions, and cultures and languages. Yet everyone is referred to as Indian and treated equally. If any preferential treatment is given, it is to the backward castes, which is not dependent on which region or religion or language they speak.
China is also a nation of very diverse peoples with different cultures, food, religions, but united by Shih Huang Ti’s actions, by one language. But everyone is still considered a Chinese.
And what do you think of countries such as America and Australia? You think it is white man country with one religion, and one language? Do you realize that these are countries with huge immigrant peoples, but all are treated equally when they are citizens. Heck, even with PR status in that country one gets treated better than being a third class citizen in this country if you are a non-malay.
So who is carrying the baggage, and creating barriers huh?
YB Lim and all,
This is indeed something of grave concern to all Malaysians who are propagating a Malaysia for all. Our dear Prime Minister in his capacity of Umno leader has just starkly shown to Malaysians that he is indeed a PM who fights for the Malays more than other races.
If we were ever to believe Khir Toyo of course. This is in fact, a highly sensitive issue and YB is right that PM owes the rakyat a proper explanation! But as he always does, remaining silent when he ought to speak up and speaking up when he should be silent :)
True, AAB as Umno president and Khir as an Umno supreme council member are qualified to fight for Malay unity..but they must not forget they are also PM and ex S’gor MB who represent all races!
In fact, this revelation of Umno-PAS unity talk is not surprising given that today, BN’s support during the last GE was mostly frm the Malays (mostly rural) rather than Chinese or Indians compared to 1998 or 2004..so it is of their interest to gain credit for looking after Malays interest while discrediting DSAI/PKR/PR for having neglected the Malays or become ‘the tools of Chinese/Indians’ as mentioned by DSAI in his speech in Cheng.
But I do not think Malays are disunited today because of the PAS/extremist or Umno/secular divide, but rather more between an honest/clean/moderate and corrupt/self-centered/extravagant leadership! Obviously, BN is still not awaken from their pre-election mentality of racial politics…Even MCA president-to-be Ong Tee Keat commented on this saying, MCA should also pick up this lesson for perhaps, a Chinese unity talk??!
To all my Malay frens..don’t be fooled. This is not a Malay unity effort so to say, it is merely political gain for Umno and PAS (if ever happens). Though I am very glad that PAS has stood firm against any political business with Umno..and remains committed to PR’s agenda. Khir Toyo is such a fool to doom Umno himself by revealing all the deals about MB post and 4 executive councillors post to PAS should they agree to form S’gor govn with Umno. And dragging DSAI into the picture for preventing this from happening will only strengthen DSAI position as a leader who fights for all races! And hello..hasn’t the rakyat already chosen by the ballot box who to rule S’gor? Are u not trying to thwart the rule of law and democracy? Wake up, ‘Toyol’!
What we need now is Malaysian unity, not Malay unity. We are now in the 21st century, close to 10 years before 2020, not in post-independence era anymore. Much challenges lie ahead for Malaysia to compete in the world stage with developed countries, esp S’pore or even Thailand..and this can only be done if Malaysians of all races are truly united as one.
These fellas are people without priciples. They are willing to sell them just for a few dollars more.
In Malaysia, the BN UMNO is trying hard to get PAS into its arms so that they can bully other minorities in this country!!! Just look at other countries with minority races, they are well taken care of instead of being bullied and marginalised!!!
If it is not their religion that teaches them to bully others, so it must be their own selfish desires and personal interest that motivate them to do so!!! God forbid!!!
Someone or more than one here who said that Malaysian identity must be Malay identity because Malays are the majority here, then we should ask what about the world identity??? should it be Chinese identity because Chinese are the majority in the world!!! Please dont try to talk about Malay identity when Malays are no longer wearing sarong & songkok every where but troushers, shirts and ties etc, so dont be a hypocrites!!! As human being, we should adopt what is good and noble and discard what is bad to progress!!! If Proton Perdana is bad, change it to Merz, dont continue to subsidize a company that is not competitive and too proud to admit own short coming!!! Tak malu ke!!!
The world or Malaysia will be a very boring place if every one looked the same, talk tha same, eat the same, wear the same even with the same colour, every thing the same in order to have a united identity, so called world identity or Malaysia identity!!! Boring boring boring!!! Time to accept differences in everything even in twins and wisdom will grow and Malaysia and the world will be a better place for you and me!!!
m.hwang, thank you for your response. If you read my post carefully, you will see I wrote:
“Most non-Malays continue to identify themselves with the country of their namesake. We continue to identify ourselves with the languages we speak and with the culture we are ingrained with from our namesake countries (i.e. India and China). We continue to seek a heritage that runs paralell to Malaysia’s own.”
I never mentioned that Chinese consider China to be their home and I did not even hint at anything suggesting Chinese to ‘go back to China’ – So please accord me the respect not to misquote or misunderstand me. I believe it’s these misunderstandings that are causing unecessary hate and pain.
I agree with you that Chinese schools are equipped in providing better secular education and I have no problem with non-Chinese sending their children there. I also agree with you on a meritocratic system, but national stability is always at the forefront of many Malaysians (re: 1967 riots).
I do not agree that cultural values will mutate and inevitably be intertwined with the other cultures in Malaysia to the extent, that they are acceptable to all. Most cultures invariably are based upon religion and there is no way religion will ever be compromised by any of the races.
Social justice remains the only value that unites, but again it is defined differently by different people.
I hear a lot of people talking about identities… Can someone please define what a “Malaysin identity” is. Instead of throwing general and cheap slogans, please be more specific and explain how you would achieve this identity and upon what basis?
How do the non-Malays minorities expect a “Bangsa Malaysia” when there are no tangible unifying factors?
ZAK
We can have MALAYSIAN identity if we can for go a few things:
1. Allows all the races to inter marry.
2. Make no compulsion for either party to follow the religion of any one spouse. That mean FREEDOM of RELIGION.
3. On Political side. UMNO, MCA, MIC can admit all races.
This will do away segregation by RACE.
Can our government do it.?
The answser is no because we are govern by IMMATURE people.
That why we have this things call:
Malaysian-Malay
Malaysian-Chinese
Malaysian-Indian
and lain lain
We can talk until the COWS come home we can NEVER able to achieve BANGSA-MALAYSIA.
Zak_ham bodoh lah..Cina and hindus born in Malaya wheregot identify themselves with China and India. Only in the small minds of the Melayu lah…propagating such cock to serve their agenda. Cinas and Hindus born in Malaysia (truly racist country) only know Malaysia as their country. You sungguh bodoh lah..how many have gone back to their China or India even to visit.
Don’t talk about unity lah…you people only clever to talk about Melayu unity cos’ that’s the most important thing. Who cares about the other races. After all this time, still the same old shit by the same only people with shit for brains. When the country prospers, all the Melayu can unite and plunder the wealth lah…when the country turns into shit because of shit Malay leaders , all you people are still talking about is still unity…Unity against what? Unity against the Cinas and Hindus cos’ less to plunder??
Worst of all, all this so-called leaders are hypocritical..Islam this and that and in the mean time, C4, backstab and sodomize people….and not even real bumis…just INdos from Palembang in disguise…what shit is this?
lakshy , I totally disagree that everyone in India is “referred to as Indian and treated equally” and I challenge you to explain the differences in caste and the injust caste system that does not treat everyone equally. Caste differences are treated like differences is race where a particular ethnic make-up has a pre-meditated place in society and is not allowed to rise above a social level.
There are over 300 indigenous languages spoken in India and each area has it’s unique characteristic. Some are more patriotic on a regional level than nationally, others distrust central government and want autonomy because of these huge differences in race, culture, language and even religion.
Examples of these are: Asam, Manipur, Nagaland, Bihar, Jammu.
Minorities in Malaysia enjoy a level of freedom and liberty that very few other minorities in any other country enjoy. This is because there has been a concrete drive to create a unique and cohesive social harmony and national stability.
The best foundation for any Malaysian unity as I mentioned needs to be based upon social justice. In the context of the geo-social race reality, it is with Malay unity first and foremost, where this social justice needs to be streamlined within a workable consensus from all Malaysians.
There was…. Zak _ harnmaad .. way back during the early 70s.Before everything was looked at and tag as haram non haram.. Halal non Halal.
Back then it was normal to see non muslims visiting chiness friends during chiness new year.Now they ask food halal or not? who are the caterers? must be Malay ..NOW Indian caterers also haram.
In national schools non Malays are not allowed to bring cook food from home.Reason non Halal.
When it is brought up at PTA meeting ..Its sensitive .But sensitive to who.
Khir Toyo, before you attempt to struggle on the news once again.
Please explain the reason why your office destroy documents shortly after Selangor was conquered by Pakatan Rakyat. Dun think that we have forgotten.
You piece of corrupted junk, as far as I know you are already history and a joke since 8th of March.
So be prepared for the worst. After the ACA guys took care of the immigration rats, eventually Bodohwi will have to set more umno-heads rolling in order to please the people.
And I hope yourswill be on that list. Enjoy.
In desperation Abdullah forfgot he was the Prime Minister of Malaysia.He became a racialist Malay fighting for the Malays.How unfortunate!We have to forgive him for that because after all he is a human.One reason he is giving way to Najib after having caused many blunders.It looks like only Nik Aziz is fit to become the next PM.
The age of impunity is over!
law1999, some of your suggestions are fantastically unrealistic and a possible cause for instability and social disaster. Let’s examine them in a little more detail:
>> 1. Allows all the races to inter marry.
For most Malays, it is Islam that defines their way of life and not secular laws. Islam is a complete and comprehensive way of life that encompasses all social, economic, legal, military, political facets. Clearly a lot of these facets are not fully applied in Malaysia, but the fundamentals do not and will not change for any given every time or space.
Inter-racial marriages are not the problem here as most Malaysians are open to this idea. The problem is with inter-religious marriages because religion is the biggest factor for people. A Muslim man or woman can marry a Muslim from any race; but when it comes to marrying non-Muslims, there are strict conditions to be met for the male gender.
>> 2. Make no compulsion for either party to follow the religion of any one spouse. That mean FREEDOM of RELIGION.
This is hypothetical because very rarely will no. 1 be implemented (in terms of inter-religious marriages).
>> 3. On Political side. UMNO, MCA, MIC can admit all races. This will do away segregation by RACE.
I agree that this is a very plausible idea and the opposition has shown how this can work (for example Penang). I think gradually a lot of Malaysians are coming around to see this in practise. The BN of today is a hodge-podge of incompetent and clueless leaders and it will take a fresh approach from the younger and more dynamic people to lead. I very much like the Singapore model of government where the most competent people are given positions of responsibility. I agree that there is nepotism to a little extent, but the funny thing is that Malaysia also practises nepotism but with negative results :^) This is because they do NOT put the best people in charge of the most responsible roles.
It may be that BN no longer has people with leader qualities, and this is where the opposition can capitalise. If they can show a successful working model of alternative governship, political change may be coming sooner than you think. However, to try and separate Islam for politics is suicide because there are equal number of people who are anti-secular as there are pro-secular.
As for Malaysian-Malay, Malaysian-Chinese, Malaysian-Indian; this is a fact of most nation states. In Singapore, you are identified by your race and in Britain, you are identified by your race (i.e. British Asian); this is not the problem. The problem is when these categorisations lead to discrimination, this is why we have to fight.
I also know that in Britain there is a proposal for “positive discrimination” for the minorities! If an employer got 2 applications, they would be forced to choose the minority application over white. Clearly this is being frowned upon by the white majority as racism. Where do you draw the balance between social justice and national stability?
I leave with a quote from LKY:
“If I were in authority in Singapore indefinitely without having to ask those who are governed whether they like what is being done, then I would not have the slightest doubt that I could govern much more effectively in their interests.” [Mr Lee Kuan Yew, 1962]
UMNO is screaming their head of off .Defending the NEP.MALAYS holds less then 20% of the economic pie, they shout.. Who are they trying to bluff.
When it comes to statistics they will use the figures that suits them.When they talk about races they use 65% bumis 35% non bumis.So the MALAYS will get a bigger cut on government funding and aid.This figures are so wrong .Just because all orang Aslis and the euration communities are also BUMIS.But when this group of BUMIS applies for any government funding and aid.In the column which ask for race or BANGSA ..THEY COME UNDER LAIN LAIN.
This is the UMNO led BN GOVERNMENT who also shout they are fair to all.
I smell some bad comments about Malays..Please my friends,we dont hate Malays,we just hate some BAD UMNO LEADERS esp Pak Lah and KJ.i wonder why so many young people especially born after 1957,angrily questioning about our rights in Malaysia.Malays never treat non Malays unequally.Im a mix chinese.My dear friends,have you guys ever been in Kelantan? over there,its a one-race one-religion state.Mr Lim, there is no racial hatred there.Kelantanese are living happily.We can see malays having meal at kopitiam chatting.chinese/indian there can speak Kelantan dialect.However under BN government,this thing did not happen. That includes Penang (under pure chinese-Gerakan) .But wait,have u ever heard chinese/indian from kelantan complained about Nik Aziz? no right.Only stupid UMNO leaders made anti-malays,anti-non malay happen.We must stop this..
ey guys,forgot to add lah..this post is very useful,wrote by Dr Mahathir..i read comments from posters,much more interesting.its about Social Contract.ive just read.please read if you were born after 1957.learn history first before making any accusation..
http://test.chedet.com/che_det/2008/07/the-malaysian-social-contract.html
i_love_malaysia,
it is not only futile but irrelevant to talk about a `world identity’ as there is no single force unifying all the humans in the world except that we all share the same DNA. As such, your argument of a world identity is impractical nor achievable.
let me hear you out then. if you think that a Malaysian identity should not be a mix of all our cultures with a tinge of stronger Malay emphasis is not right; what would you consider appropriate then? i find it hypocritical that some people preach and preach for Bangsa Malaysia and a Malaysian identity but when it comes to integration, refuses to acknowledge where in the world they are (that is in Malaysia, not in China, India, Europe etc..)
“…in Britain, you are identified by your race (i.e. British Asian)” zak_hammaad
U.K. does not have a national ID and their DL does not identify you by race or religion.
In the U.S. the state ID or DL has no reference to race or religion. The only time you are required to identify yourself according to your race would be when you are filling up those census forms every five or four years. Even then you don’t need to.
undergrad2, I used the word ‘identified’ very liberally and did not mean it in the context of ID cards. BTW, have you ever applied for a job or anything else for that matter within the public services sector in the UK? Have you travelled to the US recently? If so, were you accorded a safe passage through security and customs? Do you think that racial profiling is a necessary evil in the fight against “terrorism”?
I think you keep on missing the point here; In regards to the UK, the government is drawing up plans to discriminate against the white majority in order to accomodate ethnic minorities in the work place. This is their prerogative because they think this will be partly good for social cohesion and integration. Different countries act in different ways specific to their needs. Malaysia is no different.
As a final post on this particular thread, I just wanted to highlight a blatant fact that many are failing to understand. There is a world-wide revival within the Muslim faith and a re-surgence of Islam. Muslim majority countries world over are preparing to deal with the effects of such a re-awakening. Some are accepting it, some are fighting it, some are partial to it in certain aspects government policies.
badak is correct in saying that the issue of halal and haram was not as prevalent in the 70’s for example as it is now. This is a direct result of this revival and whether non-Muslims like or not, they will have to appreciate and live with it where they are a minority.
In the West, Muslims are fighting for their rights, but they are not demanding equal representation or law changes to accomodate their religious needs. They must (as citizens of those countries) obey the laws of the land and refrain, where possible from those that are in direct contradiction with their fundamental beliefs.
I believe the non-Muslim minorities in Malaysia need to inspect the world and see how fairly they are treated in contract to other minorities around the globe. Agreeing to disagree is a positive start :^)
Kathy : thank you for your affirmation.
imranj78 : I agree with you that the Malaysian identity or Bangsa Malaysia will be one that is deeply influenced by the majority Malay.
dear zak_hammaad
I apologise if I’ve been misunderstood. It was never my intention to imply that you are telling the Chinese to go back to China.
I said, inter alia,
“In fact it hurts when people tell us to go back to China cause what is there to go back to?”
This is from my personal experience and also words and actions uttered by our so called leaders, ministers and MPs from UMNO.
I believe the Bangsa Malaysia can be centred around the strength in all our cultures AND need not be centred around religion because all cultures, including Malay culture existed before religion (even before Hinduism) arrived. The best of our cultures actually have similar values like the rights of the individual, non-coercion against another being, be true to oneself, not to slander or commit libel, loyalty to family and friends, respect to elders, respect to the Rulers etc…
What is the definition of Bangsa Malaysia? How will it be like? I have no idea exactly how it would turn out to be but based on fundamental values of humanity it can be something to be proud of. However if we continue to ruled by a party that is so obbsessed with race supremacy, Bangsa Malaysia will never ever happen, that I can be sure. The ‘non-supreme’ races will never participate wholeheartedly and give full support to a government that tells them they are not equal.
“In regards to the UK, the government is drawing up plans to discriminate against the white majority …” zak_hammaad
Drawing up plans to discriminate?? Is this yet another instance of your liberal use of the word “discriminate’??
Here it is called affirmative action.
The aim of affirmative action is to end discrimination.
The BABA NYONYA is a culture that evolve in malaysia.The culture that is strongly bounded in the MALAY AND CHINESS culture.Now the Malays had lost it roots or refused to acknowledge its culture.
Before the 80,s you can hardly see muslim ladies wearing the tudung.Now even children as young 4 years old are using the tudung. Before the Kebaya was the dress of choise now you can never see that any more.
What i am trying to say is now everything is about haram or halal.Even the ink which was suppose to be use in the last election had to be approved by the fatwa council.The fatwa council only look at the aspect of the MUSLIM.What about non muslim .DID the BN GOVERMENT consulted the non muslim about using the ink. Pork and acohol is not serve at any goverment funtion.Yes we have all accepted this.What about beef, most Hindus and some chiness do not eat beef. Yet it is served without informing those who don,t consume beef.
Aah!
Need to come to realisation quickly and take action. If you sit by quietly,
it may have serious personal consequences – Do read the Collapse of
Civilisation by Jared Diamond – . . . .
when we started work around 1973, a 1.3 Litre Japaness car was RM 7000
Today the equivalent let’s say it is RM 60000…………8.5 times
In 1973 a double storey house was about RM 45,000…or less
Today it is about RM 300,000…………6.6 times
In 1973 an Engineer’s pay was RM 1000
Today it is about RM 2000 +/-…………2 times….
From 1973 to 2008……..35 years……what is the Trend.?
Bearish !!!!
In a stock market when the trend is bearish , what do we do?..Exit !!!
When a country’s trend is bearish what do we do?…..?
This Bearish trend is more difficult to turn around as compared to the
stock market
I have used these 3 items House, Car & Salary as a measurement of the
country’s performance for the past 35 years…
There is a book I saw in MPH bookshop entitled :
Malaysia: The Failed Nation
some of you may be interested to read up.
I agreed with the writer…..
This morning I was having Coffee at McDonald ( now the coffee..100 %
Arabica beans..is quite good
@ RM 2.90….free refill !!. I asked how much per hour is their pay?
RM 3.00 ! x 8 hours = RM 24 per day… x 25 days = RM 600 per month
My friend’s daughter works part-time during her University days…she
worked at Gloria Jeans Coffee
.the pay Australian $ 14.00 ( @ 3.15 = RM 44 per hour…..x 8 = RM352 per
day !!! x 25 days = RM 8800 per month.
13.3 times more !!!!! ……Price of houses in Perth is about the same in
KL
Price of cars are about 23 % cheaper…in Perth.( Australia )
I think more and more people are becoming aware of this Bearish trend.
Developed country by 2020?…means High income country
Let’s look at some as of year 2005 ( Financial Times )
USA GNP per capita US$ 35400
UK GNP per capita US$ 25510
Australia GNP per capita US$ 19530
Singapore GNP per capita US $ 20690
These are developed countries by income measurement
Malaysia GNP per capita US$ 3540
Year 2020..developed country?
Really…a sad story.
Worrying Trends, isn’t it??????
Ringgit sliding further and further under BN
Recently, I interviewed some fresh graduates applying for jobs with my
engineering company. I accepted two applicants on a starting salary of
RM1600. It struck me as odd that 15 years ago, I myself started work as a
fresh graduate engineer for the same pay.
Indeed, if you compare the salaries of graduates now and 15 or even 20
years ago, you’ll find little difference but that their purchasing power is
vastly different. It’s the same story when you compare salaries of shop
assistants, office staff, factory workers and others.
To compound the effect of inflation, the ringgit has depreciated greatly
against all major currencies. The real income of most Malaysians has moved
backwards.
This is why many Malaysians suffer under the petrol hike. The root of the
problem is that our real incomes have shrunk in the face of inflation and
depreciated currency.. Malaysians have not been spoiled by subsidy but are
unable to move out of the time lock of stagnated and depreciated incomes.
If you compare the per capita incomes of Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and
South Korea, they are a few multiples of ours although at independence all
these countries were the on the same economic level as Malaysia.
What has gone wrong? We were the rising star of East Asia, a country rich
in natural resources with the most promising potential.
The reason is massive corruption, plundering of resources, wastage of funds
for huge non- economic projects, anti-public interest deals with
politically-linked companies and passing-of-the -buck to the man in the
street..
Four decades of NEP where education, economic and employment policies are
defined by race ensured that meritocracy took a back seat.
Our university standard has declined and the today best and brightest of
our youth emigrate to escape the racial inequility only to contribute to
the economies of foreign lands.
The reputation of our judiciary which was held in high esteem worldwide has
sunk so low that foreign investors now insist on arbitration in Singapore
in case of any dispute.
We also have a slew of oppressive laws such as the ISA, OSA, Uuca and PPPA
which stifle free speech and are designed to keep the ruling parties in
power.
We have become less attractive to foreign investors and now lag behind our
neighbours in Asean for foreign direct investment. Even some corporations
who have established themselves here are moving out.
All the economic and social malaise cannot help but affect the value of our
currency. The strength of a country’s currency is after all, a reflection
of its fundamentals.
Furthermore, Bank Negara has a policy of weak ringgit to help exporters,
never mind the burden on the common folk. The government is
pro-corporation, not pro-rakyat.
While the poor and middle-class are squeezed, an elite group gets
breathtakingly rich. We have the distinction of having the worse income
disparity in Asean. A re-distribution of wealth is under way from the poor
and middle-class to a select group of politically-connected elite.
The end result of this re-distribution will be a small group of super-rich
while the majority are pushed into poverty and the middle-class shrinks.
This is what happens when the rich gets richer and the poor get poorer
There is much that is wrong with Malaysia. The responsibility for pulling
the country backwards can be laid squarely at the door of the ruling
regime. It is BN’s mis-governance, racial politics and culture of patronage
which has seen the country regress economically and socially.
We seem to be sliding down a slippery slope, further down with each passing
year of BN’s rule. Another five years of BN rule and we’ll be at
Indonesia’s standard under Suharto. Another 10 years and we’ll be touching
the African standard. What a way to greet 2020.
Is there any hope for Malaysia?
Faced with the reality that BN will never change, many Malaysians desperate
for change turn their lonely eyes to Anwar Ibrahim.
Pakatan Raykat has promised to treat all races fairly, to plug wastage,
fight corruption, reform the judiciary and make Malaysia more competitive.
Capt (Rtd) A. Asohan RMAF
Manager,
Health, Safety, Security & Environmental
MMC Engineering & Construction Sdn Bhd
Well said Undergrad2. It is time to end discrimination. It is not the Malays or Chinese or Indians or the other races in Malaysia that we dislike, it is the way, BN has been running for the longest time – dividing up the country for its own greed and gain.
It is the selfish ways of UMNO, MCA, MIC and other component parties in Malaysia that is hurting all Malaysians.
By the way, Zak, it is not impossible to inter-marry and yet maintain seperate religious beliefs. In India, parents can be practising different religion and still married to each other. So is in the USA. The difference here in Malaysia is that we are tied to the laws made by men (BN????) that it is a must for non-muslims to convert to Islam before they are able to marry a muslim believer.
I know many friends and relatives that marry other race spouses and it is fine with the family. The diversity and cultural experiences are great. If only everyone can see that point and not harp on who should be the greatest.
Pak Lah should stop playing the racial segregation game. Apartheid is not welcome on this land of ours.
Racial segregation will only bring more woes and sufferings to the already complicated multi-racial Malaysian society.
“In the West, Muslims are fighting for their rights, but they are not demanding equal representation or law changes to accomodate their religious needs.” zak_hammaad
Muslims are ‘fighting for their rights’ and ‘not demanding equal representation’??
American Muslims, for example, are more assimilated and less marginalized than those in France and Germany. Any problems posed by large minorities in countries such as France and Germany are more due to their difficulty in assimilating to western culture than to their being Muslims. The high unemployment and high crime rate among such groups is not because they are Muslims but because they are recent immigrants from poorer parts of North Africa. When you suggest Muslims are fighting for their rights the suggestion is that they are being denied their rights because they are Muslims. Nothing can be further from the truth.
Nothing represents a gross distortion of the truth than to imply that Muslims in the U.S. and in Europe would have to ‘fight for equal rights and equal representation’ – whatever the latter may mean!
The refusal to allow the wearing of the hijab in state schools in France, for example, is not because they are Muslims but because of France’s secular tradition. In the U.S. where there is a clear separation of state and religion, American Muslims are free to don the hijab to schools and to their workplace.
A Democrat from the state of Minnesota made history recently by becoming the country’s first Muslim elected to the House of Representatives. In a country that is predominantly Christian (American Muslims are less than 1% of the total U.S. population) the fact this happens at all is testimony to the freedom and equal rights minorities of whatever religious tradition enjoy. They even use taxpayers’ money to build footbaths at airports to cater to the needs of Muslims – and in a country where there is a clear separation between state and religion it has attracted public criticism.
There is always racial discrimination in any society but any discrimination Americans face today is more due to their status as minorities than to their religious beliefs.
“They must (as citizens of those countries) obey the laws of the land and refrain, where possible from those that are in direct contradiction with their fundamental beliefs.” zak_hammaad
Implicit therein is the suggestion that Muslims deserve to be treated differently than the rest of the population. Why should Muslims be treated differently from the rest of the population??
By the way, the U.S. government through Secretary Condi Rice has delivered a tight slap to the face of Rais Yatim, our Foreign Minister who delivered a protest note to the U.S. alleging interference with Malaysia’s internal affairs!
Rice said “The United States doesn’t recognise this very firm barrier that it is simply internal affairs when a case of this kind comes up, but we are going to continue to work with Malaysia.”‘
Kathy is always supporting Undergrad2, I wonder why!?!
Anyway I support also on this issue. The problem is some religions like to impose on others or expect others to follow their way. That is totally wrong.
Ya, on Condi Rice, I think the US has been talking and talking. But does it make a difference (this does not mean I disagree with the stand taken)? Ask Rice to go tell the military junta in Myamnar and make a difference there.
Let them talk all the want. We can choose to hear or not. Like the military junta in Myanmar, they choose to ignore the world and do things their way (even it is wrong way).
When I was studying in Canada, I lived with a family from Trinidad. The husband was muslim, while the wife was born a Hindu. No one changed religions to marry the other. And as things turned out, the man became a more devout Hindu than the wife, without converting into Hinduism!
In Malaysia you will see many examples of men of one religion married to women of other religions with none having to convert.
I dont know………….cam you really force religion onto a person?
Do all Hindus believe in exactly the same things with regards their religion? Do all Christians, although they read the same Holy Book, believe in the same things? Do all Muslims……
Does that make them any as God’s Children in the eyes of God?
Well Zak………….whether you like it or they like it or not, they are all referred to as Indians, and treated as such.
But in Malaysia, I will be Non-Malay or non-bumi first! Ha ha…….I actually prefer to be a non-bumi by the way, as I dont need a tongkat to survive!
Dont twist facts Zak. The caste system is a societal system and I agree it is practised. The higher castes or those who still follow this caste concept, may not step into the house of someone of a lower caste. But then again, whats different here is not this societal issue.
Its not what caste you are that ends up being a barrier to getting jobs and scholarships, and university seats and government projects!
Where do you have companies advertising……..Caste: Brahmin!
And if I read your last statement correctly, you are saying that all Malaysians should be of one relligion! If thats the case, I better chow lah.
What about China Zak?
All countries are made up of different peoples. They become citizens with equal rights. But not in Malaysia. Even if you are born here, and if you are non Malay, an Indon who migrates over (legally or otherwise) has greater rights.
Can you kapish? I cant, and I dont think the younger generation can or will accept it.
What the heck the Serbians who migrated over during their crises probably already have better rights than non-malays who are several generations in Malaysia. And all because of what, religion?
So thats what it all boils down to? Convert to Islam and you get equal rights?
Where got meaning!
“CAN a person who is Muslim choose a religion other than Islam?” When Egypt’s grand mufti, Ali Gomaa, pondered that dilemma in an article published last year, many of his co-religionists were shocked that the question could even be asked.
And they were even more scandalised by his conclusion. The answer, he wrote, was yes, they can, in the light of three verses in the Koran: first, “Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion”; second, “Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve”; and, most famously, “There is no compulsion in religion.”
imranj78 Says:
Yesterday at 22: 29.39
i_love_malaysia,
it is not only futile but irrelevant to talk about a `world identity’ as there is no single force unifying all the humans in the world except that we all share the same DNA. As such, your argument of a world identity is impractical nor achievable.
let me hear you out then. if you think that a Malaysian identity should not be a mix of all our cultures with a tinge of stronger Malay emphasis is not right; what would you consider appropriate then? i find it hypocritical that some people preach and preach for Bangsa Malaysia and a Malaysian identity but when it comes to integration, refuses to acknowledge where in the world they are (that is in Malaysia, not in China, India, Europe etc..)
—————————————————–
All our us are created in the image of God, our identities are the identities of children of God!!! When every one of us in this world acknowledge God and knowing our true identity, the need to identify with culture etc will become irrelevant!!! Anyway, it is practical and achievable, may be taking slightly more time!!!
We should not and never impose on another person of one’s culture just because we think we are the majority here, that’s why I said that Malay as majority in Malaysia should never impose their culture on other races, else the majority race in the world will want to impose their culture on other races in this world using the same argument that they are the majority (or that they have the longest, best or finest culture) in this world!!! One should not do to others what they dont want others to do to them!!!
If one’s culture is good, practical, useful etc etc. , you dont have to force it on others and people of other races would even pay money to learn e.g. Japanese language & How to prepare Japanese food etc etc
As for me, I eat everything as long as it is nice whether it is Chinese, Malay, Indian, French, Turkish, Italian, Japanese, Korean etc.
I speak 6 other languages other than my own mother tongues, I leant them not because people forcing me to learn them but because languages are created by God and there’s no such thing as certain language used by certain race is of lower quality because short of certain terms or phrases to express themselves or some sounded rough, but once you know that language, you will love them!!!
The following is quoted from Malaysiakini:
“YOUR SAY: ‘MCA hypocrisy revealed for all’
Jul 25, 08 9:35am
Now that news has broken out that Umno has talked to PAS, why is MCA so quiet? DAP is the devil for cooperating with PAS, but not Umno?’
On PM for all M’sians, but minus S’gor?
Kenny Gan: MCA has always castigated DAP for working with PAS. Before the 2008 elections, MCA tried to whip up fear among the Chinese that DAP’s co-operation with PAS meant support for an Islamic state.
After the elections, MCA’s Ong Ka Chun demanded that DAP apologise to the Chinese for misleading them and forming state governments with PAS.
Now that news has broken out that Umno has talked to PAS about sharing power, why is MCA so quiet? DAP is the devil for cooperating with PAS, but not Umno?
Or is it that MCA dare not speak up against their Umno masters?
MCA’s hypocrisy has been revealed for all to see. Their trousers have slipped off and their stark impotence is not a pretty sight.
Do Chinese need any more proof that this pointless and powerless party cannot represent them and only exists to serve itself?”
Ha ha ha
Mr. Ong KC please say something!
undergrad2 , I hope you are noting all the ironies within your posts :^) I rest my case.
Between the devil and AAb, I chose the devil to be the PM. You know why? Because I can’t stand an incompetent devil.
zak_hammaad
If you were a lawyer representing a client, and if that is all you have to say, then your client would do better defending himself.
Mere assertions do not win arguments. I too rest my case.
I’d urge zak_haamaad, to come down from his high pedestal and ‘educate’ us lesser mortals further on his ideas about Muslim theology and the resurgence of Islam.
kcb what sak mca to say something ask all the mca hump chaat
Imaranj78,
I suppose you didnt quite decipher my statement.I never mentioned the word `all’ successful and independent malays are against BN.What I did mention was that the 3rd group of malays who chose to go against the BN comprised of those educated and `enterprising’ ones,including the protest voters.And I also mentioned that this group is simply too small in numbers.I conceived this perception of mine only after my discussions with my malay friends and also through some malay commentators in some forums elsewhere.(If you want a tangible explanation to this,I shall request you to see what mak figaro has to say in reply to my comments in susan loones’s blog titled`you can’t shut me up plz’).Therefore this is not an illusion but a mere fact.
Having said the above,I would like to ask you,how on earth could you think that BN is the lesser evil of the two?Whats your rational on this?How could you come up with a unilateral comparison,when there was no other govt which ruled the nation other than BN for the past 50 yrs?Let the PAKATAN rule before you decide who is the lesser evil.How much worse can PAKATAN get,compared to this parochial BN putras?After 50 yrs of independence we the ordinary people of Malaysia are still immersed in racism as you can see from this forum and elsewhere.This evil policy is no better from the British yet these UMNOputras have the audacity to condemn the British.Billions of the tax payers money have been used up bailing out companies which are alligned to those corrupt BN leaders,the quota system has eroded the education standard of our schools and universities,churning out mediocre graduates day in and day out just to make the numbers at the expense of brilliant and highly qualified non-bumis,temple demolitions,body and bible snatchings,white elephant projects,space tourist,well the list can go on and on.I think your `lesser evil’ part is only your figment of imagination.
I am not a die hard supporter of PAKATAN,since independence not only my family and I but also 85% of indians never failed to vote for BN and we have learnt a bitter lesson so now I want to see a change for the betterment of our nation.BN has simply failed the non-bumis and also the poor bumis.There is no an iota of doubt on this.
PAS certainly doesn’t look to be head and shoulder above PKR as you claimed,if they are then what is the need to have secret talks with a desperate regime which got buggered in the recent 12th GE?
What happened to all those swearings hurled at each other just before the 12th GE?PAS is just being made a pawn and they are compromising on their principles of spirituality,fairness and good governance.Worst of all the BN goons are trying to lure them with promises of power and positions.Why is that BN only talking about malay unity now when they are in doldrums?The slowly growing confidence for PAS among the non-bumis will be lost if at all they hook up wth UMNO.
The question of non-malays making the malays angry doesnt arise at all ,in fact it should be the other way round as we the non-malays are very much at the receiving end.Remember Malaysia is probably the only nation in the world today who has an affirmative policy for the majority,meaning the minorities are supporting the majority.This is a very big dubious distinction already for the nation.Its time for all of us as ,while appreciating each others race,culture and religion to move forward as a nation and focus all our energies towards nation building to regain our past glory and not indulge in activities that can be detrimental to the country.
The malays are re-assesing support for Anwar,what?Come on guys Anwar is not important here,the ideology is.No one is indispensable.
If you want a strong Malaysia with a strong human capital,sound economy,peace and a good future for your children then go for a change as BN has certainly failed on all these aspects.The choice is yours no one can force you.And don’t make it look as though you are doing a favour for the others.Be magnanimous enough to accept the reality for the sake of our beautiful nation.To our malay brethrens rest assured we non-bumis are not anti-malays,but merely voicing out all those discriminations and obstacles put in front of us for far too long.
May god bless our nation.
YB Lim,
We are talking about Mr Flip Flop. What is impossible ???
Maybe he will change his mind tomorrow and say he was not involved fully in the meeting…hahhaha
“To our malay brethrens rest assured we non-bumis are not anti-malays,but merely voicing out all those discriminations and obstacles put in front of us for far too long.” suresh kumar
Perhaps in the interest of ‘change’ you need to move away from the language of “we” versus “they” – or “you are either with us or you are against us” of the Bush School of Thought.
“We are the change we seek” is non-confrontational and would put everybody on the same side. Don’t you think??
undergrad2 Says:
>> I’d urge zak_haamaad, to come down from his high pedestal and ‘educate’ us lesser mortals further on his ideas about Muslim theology and the resurgence of Islam.
This is neither the time or place to discuss this, but I’m sure we will have plenty of opportunities as this blog progresses. I mentioned the issue of Islamic revival because it is happening; to ignore it will continue to raise questions about “Islamisation of Malaysia”, it’s causes and affects. Since we know that politics is an inherent part of Islam (not vice versa) – We can begin to understand and address minority concerns in Muslim majority countries.
Political change in Malaysia, whether it comes through BN or Pakatan will continue to be based on Islamic elements that secularists like the DAP will not be able to wash off no matter how much they’d like to. Social justice will prevail; but not as defined by the anti-Muslim forces :^)
Kathy, limkamput,
It is a requirement that Muslims get married to a person who professes the same religion. Every religion has its rules and tenets and for Islam, this is one of them. Your claim that this imposes on other religions is incorrect as marriage is not something that is forced upon you.
i_love_malaysia, you said:
`All our us are created in the image of God, our identities are the identities of children of God!!! When every one of us in this world acknowledge God and knowing our true identity, the need to identify with culture etc will become irrelevant!!! Anyway, it is practical and achievable, may be taking slightly more time!!!’
I find your above post extremely idealistic and utopian. Yes one day we will all discard our cultures and totally be one human race.. maybe in a zillion years?
Now lets be more practical and down to earth shall we? I never mentioned that a culture has to be imposed upon another. What I mention is about the creation of a Malaysian identity or `Bangsa Malaysia’ which is so much touted and favoured by many especially in this forum.
When a collective identity has to be created especially in a country such as Malaysia, it is necessary that existing cultures morph to form one that is representative of the whole country. Of course certain cultural distinctiveness will remain but the general outlook and projection of the population will be one. Then only would you say that `Bangsa Malaysia’ have been borne. In my view, it is only natural that this single cultural projection will more closely reflect the majority in the country, and in Malaysia, this will be the Malays. Again I reiterate, this is not because of any cultural superiority or anything to that effect, its just a natural progression in any country with a substantial majority.
But in my view, there is a lot of hypocritical talk. Many seem to want Bangsa Malaysia but when it comes to the adoption some cultural traits that is more Malay (even a simple act of wearing songkok in the presence of a Sultan for example), there is some reluctance.
So far, no one yet has given any strong rebuttal to the above. Please keep it practical, not idealistic mind you.
dr suresh kumar,
This particular thread is not about BN vs PR and as such I will leave your comments as it is; maybe for some other more relevant threads. But I will just say this: In successful companies and organizations, the stakeholders all have synergy and have common long term goals. The way PR is currently structured is for short term gains and they have not yet clairified their long term goals and how they plan to reconcile differences esp. between PAS and DAP. Now I am not a BN fan, but I am not willing to gamble the future of our country to an unstable coalition, especially one that wants to build the federal government through defections. I’ll leave it at that.
i think abdullah is dead brain already.
he thought umno is the one party won the most seat, then can simply find other party to set up as state goverment ? he dont forget the voter may choosed umno in past general election but the people who choose those umno candidate is because they are BN. not BECAUSE THEY ARE UMNO. SO STUPID ABDULLAH !
IF UMNO SUCCCESS JOIN VENTURE WITH PAS, TO FORM STATE GOVERMENT, IM SURE THEY ONLY FOR 4 YEARS. NEXT GENERAL ELECTION , ALL BN COMPONENT PARTIES SURE DIE IN SELANGOR
Abdullah and Khir Toyo can immerse themselves in the glory of the UMNO-PAS dialogues and sing their swan songs, but morally and politically they are finished, their liabilities will sooner or later drag UMNO to the dirt, along the way BN will go with it.
PAS is as always making a fool of themselves, UMNO as always using the old SUN TZU divide and conqueour method to cling on to power. If PAS accepted the offer to join UMNO, then in the next GE, UMNO will win bigger & PAS will be swipe away or even crush. This will not only weaken PR is the short and long term but chances for UMNO to win is much better. KILL two bird with one stone, simply smart!. HADI and ISA please just jump to UMNO & dont be a pain the ASS!
Maybe u guys should voice out the in-equality and discrimination that may take place in public or private sector also. Appointment and increment base on racial basis rather than merit. This is all un written discrimination that has been planted inside those racist brains
Imran, totally agree with you last post, couldn’t have said it better myself.
imranj78,
You are missing my points and your thinking is still 50 years before independence. As I had said, we are a global city now and no country or people are insulated from the onslaught of globalisation, unless you prefer to living in your own cave!!!
Bangsa Malaysia may not be just talking about attire etc, it must be about things that we can all relate to!!! if you ask me to wear songkok for ceremony sake, it is perfectly ok to do so, but dont impose this requirement on those who feel that songkok has lost its purpose when the weather is so hot nowadays and yet you still insist that people need to wear them every day to school and must be worn at all time!!! This is not acceptable and not moving in progress with the world!!!
imranj78,
I for one dont agree with defections too,but what other options are there to topple UMNO led BN govt which has stooped so low by re-enacting the same old sickening script of sodomy against Anwar?Don’t you feel this is very unfair to his wife and children?
BN is trying to lure PAS to realize their ulterior motives,is this not defection?The rakyat have sent a crystal clear message through the ballot boxes in the 12th GE by denying the 2/3rd majority and the loss of 5 states.So why BN is trying to gain power through the back door?What future are you talking about some more?BN has decimated everything,the future can only come now with a change.
If you are afraid to try out new things in life as a man then you will forever be living in a cave with a siege mentality as a fearful and coward person.
You want to wait for the next GE to bring about a change?Cant you see how the UMNO scums are so desperate now to regain power by stooping so low,how sure are you that they wont mobilize all the govt machineries to gain power by using dubious means in the next GE,with all the ample time they have.Till about 2 months ago I too was unhappy with all these defections talk,but now I find it imperative to go for a change of govt in Malaysia asap as we have become a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.
i_love_malaysia,
My mention of songkok is just a small example. I don’t deny that we are in a globalised environment. But are you saying now that Malaysia should not have its own `Bangsa Malaysia’ but rather embrace an utopian `global culture’?
While we are on the songkok topic, I don’t think that it is imposed in public isn’t it? Yes in some ceremonies it is a dress code (like when meeting the Sultan), but is it different then when you are invited to a formal dinner where there is a formal attire dress code? To me, those who refuse to wear the songkok for formal ceremonies are hypocrites. They talk about Bangsa Malaysia but when the time comes for them to show tolerance and respect to a Sultan (not even a BN politician mind you!), they fail. Sounds like hypocrites doesn’t it?
dr suresh kumar,
I for one am not afraid to try something new in life. But trying something new entails making an informed and a responsible decision after careful evaluation of pros and cons. And my view is different from yours.
What proof do you have that the sodomy allegation is brought about by the UMNO chain of command? I agree that there could be a conspiracy, but it could have been certain factions or even certain groups in our country that have engineered it. I don’t know and at least I don’t pretend to know the facts unlike many here.
Now tell me, if PR gets 30 defectors to jump ship to BN, would the PR led government be more stable then the current BN government? The PR government would only have 1-2 majority over BN. This is an extremely unstable government and only an irresponsible person would think that such a government would last 5 years. My dear doctor, this is elementary so hear me out: go for long term sustainability and not short term gains. If PR do well, GE13 will be the platform to build the federal government.
We all know that BN have resorted to defections before and that is not something new. And it is expected that they will try now especially when PR is working to do the same. I am not a BN fan, but I can see some right decisions been made by BN and an effort made to move to the right direction. My beef with PR is that PR is supposed to bring in a new wind of change to Malaysia. They are supposed to hold the higher moral ground and not stoop to low unethical practices. What makes BN and PR different if PR resorts to such low practices now? They might make one unethical move now and you will forgive them, but what makes you think this will not be the last??
imranj78,
Would you mind elaborating on who are those`certain factions or certain groups that might be engineering the down fall of Anwar?
I cant see here any one who could be benefitting by bringing down Anwar than those racist UMNO scums?May be you have some pointers for me here.Wether PAKATAN has a weak majority or not,the point here is that BN must be taught a lesson.50 years of hegemony is enough.I assume you are a malay,maybe thats why you are afraid of facing a new govt and therefore a new challenge,I being a non-malay have nothing to lose as we non-malays have gained nothing through the racist BN govt initiatives,today a western country is infact gaining from me and my wife,but my heart and soul is still there in the country of my birth,I am trying my best to tell my fellow non-malay Malaysians to be patient and try out a new govt,infact it took me and my wife nearly 10 yrs to decide to leave the country for the sake of our children’s future,only when i got totally exhausted did we leave ,that too after losing our Australian PR 10 yrs ago, because I at that time still had some hope that this racist UMNO scums will one day change their attitude towards the non-bumis but sadly after 10 years I saw it became worse with further marginalization of the minorites in every aspect ,when I applied again in 2005,we were welcomed with open arms, because what the racist govt refused to recognize in us the white man did.
I have all the reasons to think that this is a BN conspiracy.The reasons are;1)why are the police refusing to divulge the police report made by Saiful? 2)Why do the police have to use such long arm tactics by sending balaclave clad commandos to arrest Anwar 1 hr before the deadline for Anwar to be at the police station to give his statement? 3) Why the Dr from PUSRAWI med centre has to go on long leave,for stating that there was no signs of sodomy on Saiful? 4)Why aren’t the police investigating allegations against Najib and his wife as claimed by RPK? 5)Why didn’t the police reprimand Mahathir for sabotaging the present on going sodomy investigation against Anwar by hinting that some habits are hard to break,as you know Mahathir still commands significant support amongst the people?6)Why did PI Bala changed his SD within 24 hours and then dissapeared into wilderness with his family?Do you have any inkling on these?Dont say things for the sake of arguement.Make sure you have got some substance before you comment my respected young brother.
I wish time and duty had been more liberal to me,as I would love to continue this debate with you,unfortunately i may not be,therefore I rest my case with the fervent hope that Malaysia will be able to overcome this ferocious storm and all Malaysians can leave in peace and harmony always.God bless her.
By the way imranj78,you were talking about unethical move by PAKATAN.Is BN and PAS upholding ethics now?Speak for youself.