BY: Emergency Physician
Dear YB, please speak up for the many concerned parents regarding the deaths and deaths and deaths in the NS camps… it is very very worrying… authorities don’t seems to concern much
i am a doctor, working as a specialist in emergency department… i can somehow guess what had happened… it is ridiculous for a victim to die like that in Kem Semanggol with a simple answer of unknown fever… ridiculous!!! is a case of neglect and delay treatment..
the victim Too Hui Min… again… if not because of neglect and delay of treatment… WHY WHY WHY should a victim complaining of constipation die… it is not the answer…
i suspect it is the stupidity of the paramedic who did not refer her earlier to the hospital… believe me, i have seen many referral letters written by paramedic to the hospital with stupid diagnosis… just because he didn’t know what’s happening…he might have simply labeled her as having constipation. rather than seeing the non bowel opening as a warning sign to something sinister… he made the wrong diagnosis of keeping her in the camp further and worse still, gave her a pill which could make her worse!! If he is not qualified to make a decision like a doctor, at least he should refer!!!!
My heart really goes out in tears to those who have trusted their children into the hands of these people…only to bring back dead bodies
So, please YB, please speak up on our behalf..numerous letters had been written in Malaysiakini, even in other papers like the STAR, etc.. I for once, wouldn’t want to send my children, when the reach that age…to the hands of potential murderers.
Scrap the NS programme now!
It has became as death knell instead for youngster. Youngster died when they should be alive if not took part in this “death knell” so-called National Service.
Instead of provide Notional Service, it has become National Funeral!
Save them and stop this quick buck of making money at the expenses of youngsters’ live!
Raise this issue in this current sitting and mobilise all the 82 MP to debate it.
There is only one way out for all of us……..Change of government!
Its due to a typical Malaysian mentality. Everything is sooooooo tidak apa, easy going, no urgency about things, leceh-la. And when things happen, its “nasib-la”.
We need to change our way of thinking, our mind set, our psyche, our way of live.
To lose a life at a “holiday camp” (as labelled by some) is extremely unfortunate and regretful. Where is the remorse by the powers-there-be? Heads should roll if they don’t resign.
And the head of the National Service happens to head the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH). What an irony!!!
Hey…This is old news right? Like 2 or 3 days ago I believe.
Anyway, I have an Iranian as my house mate here and he shared some of his experience during his national service in his country. He told me that he almost died if he didn’t managed to dodge a bullet. And there are cases whereby trainees were accidentally killed BY BULLETS.
Compared to Malaysia, trainees die without handling real guns and without medical treatment. It can be said that our country’s case is far more serious as deaths like Too Hui Min are PREVENTABLE and AVOIDABLE if she were to be treated BEFORE she died.
Needless to say that no one has learnt anything from other previous cases such as this
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/9/14/nation/18884846&sec=nation
How many more deaths will we accept till we decide to take action? How much suffering must the trainees undergo before being sent for medical treatment?
I’m also curious about the results of the link that I’ve posted, did the government take full responsibility for such negligence cases? Was the parent fully compensated for their lost of their child? Is that amount of money actual enough to compensate the pain and suffering that the trainee had to suffer before death? I believe this case is among the best examples whereby the government had failed to prevent negligence.
NS is nothing more than a scam for Najib to enrich himself and his cronies with lucrative contracts. I would like to call on all parents to stop sending their children to NS. There is nothing Najib can do about it if we unite and boycott NS!!!! Let’s do it to save our children’s lives and tax money!!!
“My heart really goes out in tears to those who have trusted their children into the hands of these people…only to bring back dead bodies”
This is truly a strong point of argument that shouldn’t be ignored.
Government, NS camp chief sued
By CHELSEA L.Y. NG
KUALA LUMPUR: The family of national service trainee Mohd Rafi Ameer is suing the Cheneh Cemerlang camp commandant and the Government for RM10mil, claiming he had died as a result of consuming food tainted with animal faeces.
His elder sister Jubaidah, 25, said in the suit that the Kemaman Hospital informed her on Aug 31, just hours before Mohd Rafi died, that he had “most probably eaten contaminated food”.
Jubaidah: Contacted a camp officer to find out the situation but was reprimanded
Jubaidah is suing camp commandant Lt Kdr Mohd Najib Lotpy Mat Nor and the Government for negligence following the death of Mohd Rafi, 18, who is the fourth of six siblings.
The statement of claim filed at the High Court registry here yesterday, stated that Mohd Rafi had reported to the Cheneh Cemerlang camp in Kemaman on June 17 but had called home on Aug 24 complaining of fever and not being sent to any medical centre for treatment.
“After a week (Aug 31), he called home again. By then, the deceased had complained of fever and swelling in the legs due to a fall during training. He said he had not been sent for treatment and was only given pain killers by the staff in the camp,” Jubaidah said in the suit.
She added that she then contacted an officer in the camp to find out the exact situation but was reprimanded.
The officer, she said, told her that her brother was well and the camp management would do the necessary if the situation demanded it.
“After that, the deceased again called home stating that his condition had worsened. His vision had become blurred by then and everything he saw seemed yellowish.
Jubaidah said she called up the camp officer again and queried why her brother had been denied medical attention.
She said that the officer still maintained that the boy was well and forbade her from taking him for treatment.
“My brother called me again after that saying he was vomiting and in great pain.
“He pleaded for me to go to him as soon as possible. It was only at 10pm that night (Aug 31) that he was sent to the Kemaman Hospital,” she said.
Jubaidah said her brother managed to contact her at the hospital stating that he was already vomiting blood and had breathing difficulties.
The hospital then informed the family that Mohd Rafi’s condition was critical and his condition was most probably caused by consumption of animal faeces.
The hospital decided to transfer Mohd Rafi to the Tengku Ampuan Afzan Hospital in Kuantan at 9pm on Sept 1, but he died on the way.
16 deaths and not a single word from the Prime Minister. WHY? By keeping silence does he think that it will resolve him from the responsibility that his government is the cause of 16 unnecessary deaths. Mr. PM stop this cursed programme immediately. It is heartless for the deputy PM to say that too many people are involved in the programme and therefore it cannot be scraped. Money is more important than lives?
Hey hang on…..isn’t employing a paramedic and seeing patients against the Private Healthcare Facilities Act…….it got a registered doctor called Basmullah Yusom jailed…..but here a paramedic…according to this emergency physician.. has resulted in the culpable homicide of a young Malaysian…….
Where is the Health Minister and those lunatics at the “Medical Practices Division” ….and of course the champion of his Act….Ismail Merican and Khairy Yaakub……….who cooked up this Act…
I agree with Emergency Physician…….the Opposition must get serious and this must come out hard in parliment……more then 20 deaths could have had health officials in China shot…..the BN is not going to lift a finger until Najib and Rosmah are gone………
The only hope parents have now is the opposition MPs……so please Mr. LKS……get this program scrapped or suspended instead of using the lives of innocent children as part and parcel of a learning curve in camp managemnt
Those murderers think they are hero like Bush, give big talk and set paranoidal notions into minds of wanabe nationalist feelings….but there are better ways….much better ways definitely not at the expense of our youngster’s life.
NO EXPERIENCE and DARE NOT SAY SO, but pretend to be SPECIALISTS…dreaming
USED our own youngsters as guinea pigs , experimenting from day one,
incidentally the surname Lee has earned himself a very bad name, a very very bad name.
Call the whole damn thing off immediately for our nation sake before our young distrust their nkp elders….may be even sue those involved for negligence and duty of care.
It’s time to scrap the National Service.
I’m not the only parent who will not entrust my children to this worthless cause. It has proven to be unsafe since it was initiated. How many have died in the camps already? How many more have fallen ill?
Why must we sacrifice our children … for what? It was a hare-brained idea to begin with. And yet despite the public resistance, the Government has insisted on carrying on with it.
Some who have gone through NS may have got something out of it, but many more detest it. But the upshot of it all is this — if there are going to be cases of people dying while serving NS, it simply does not justify having it. If the Government cannot guarantee the safety of each and everyone of those serving NS, it should feel shame and stop this unsafe scheme.
I call on our elected representatives to speak up and earnestly press for the abolition of National Service.
I urge all parents to resist — by refusing to send their children when they are called up for the next round of NS. Let this be a form of conscientious objection.
We must be together in this — so that if the Government wants to persecute us for it, they will find it harder to persecute a mass of people than if it were only a handful.
I call on civil society groups to pledge protection for parents who resist should they be hauled up for persecution. Such protection could be in the form of free legal representation.
Let us show solidarity in standing up against what we don’t have faith and trust in.
Sincerely,
Kee Thuan Chye
Taken from Malaysiakini website
Mukhriz Mahathir (BN-Jerlun) said there was no attempt to hide the facts behind the May 13 incident. He said the tragedy should be seen as a “blessing”.
He was referring to New Economic Policy, an affirmative action policy which favoured the bumiputera, that was introduced as a result of the May 13 incident.
“So the good that came out from such tragedy has been something that we have enjoyed even until now,” argued Mukhriz.
A “BLESSING?????” Go to hell you Mukhriz
Does anyone have statistics of BN leaders children attending NS.
I would like to know and I am sure there are lots of parents wanting to know as well. Will they be penalised if they didn’t send their children to NS?! I really doubt about it!!
I like the way justice_fighter thinks. I believe that if anyone is to die of negligence first in NS, it should be the children of the those who started the NS programme.
After all, the people are not the government’s guinea pigs.
How can it be fair that the children of those who started the NS programme are not in the programme in the first place?
I would ‘LOVE’ to see their children die in their own ineffective programme and see their expression in their faces when they learn that their children are dead, for reasons that they weren’t sent for medical treatment. Wouldn’t it be dramatic to say that if that happens, it would be like parent killing their children.
As insensitive as my comments are, my point is, the peoples’ children are not the government’s experimental ‘apparatus’. If the people have to send their children to NS to satisfy their experimental needs, they MUST send their children as well as it is their ‘experiment’ in the first place.
The National Service is a very good program for youngters to instill in them positive and proactive attitudes that will help them tremendously in their endeavours.
The problem is the implementation. Useless heads are appointed to head and manage the programs. What has Lee Lam Thye ever do good for the country? Just because he could not agree DAP leadrship,he chose to jump ship makig him one of the first immoral and unethical politician to jump party inorder to gain positions and economic benefits. Since then onwards, when a commission is formed or National committe created, the Government search for so called suitable candidates always ended with Lee lam Thye.
The National Service is put under Najib. So you can guess the rest. Thats why it has been reduced to money making machine for some who are closest to Najib. As usual, only 30% goes to the actual project and the remaining into several levels of pocket.
When the last fella far down the line get to carry on with the projects or what ever supply of material or services, he will want to make money too. So the real consequence will definitely be what people are complaining today. Inferior facilities, poor arrangements, poor medical attention etc.
These UMNO leaders whats to control everything so that they can keep milking the cow. So if we want to see the real National Service happening, UMNO first must be sent to the opposition benches and people like Najib should be retired to gether with his brother, the first destroyer of UMNO.
The grandfather founded UMNO and his grandson obliterates it. It will written in history as a tale of three generation. Whatever remaining ‘nyawa ikan’ left in UMNO, Khairy is doing a tremendous job in Parliment with his name calling. What a beginning of end. What a tragedy.
Poor UMNO, it has 6 weeks left before it is finally burried 10 feet underground. The active flurry one sees these days in the last flicker before a light, UMNO distinguishes.
According to the law you cannot dodge NS as one poor guy was convicted as he had to work on his parent’s farm – but the outpouring of sympathy for him was great and I think he benefitted in the end after his case was uncovered.
Yes it would be a good thing to audit the NS department to see how the names are selected – as with any computer program, it is quite easy to omit specific names and perhaps the PR future government should do that to ensure that everyone has an equal chance of being selected.
After so many deaths and the apologetic letter from Lee Lam Thye it is time to reexamine the cost/benefits ratio of this scheme.
http://malaysiawatch3.blogspot.com/2008/05/we-need-time-out-for-national-service.html
Somethings you can used all those statistical methods to give opinion but when human lives are at stake you must be out of your mind ,
to even think of weighing against any benefit, a life is a life, you live it love it and die it the way your inner self dread or yearns.
If you are lucky you die of cancer, luckier die laughing, but not so lucky if you die being killed by another or caused to die as result of others.
The pain in the arxx is worst when it is your offspring being killed or die as a result of some ego mad militant bastards always looking for a fight but could not find a equal enemy.
Can anybody please check who is the contractor for supplying the food and uniform to the NS trainee? You will be surprised or rather will not be surprised. That is why comes rain or shine the show must go on.
Saudara LKS,
Please talk to your former buddy. Lee Lam Thye what is actually happening in NS.Afterall he is the man in charge.
Is he getting more and more comfortable under BN payroll?
Kit,
I am very concerned about these unneccesary deaths. Ms Too is just the latest example. If we do not do something about it, there will be more Ms Toos. 21 young Malaysians with promising future have died. It is 21 too many.There are a whole host of possibilities. All stemming from the fact that there is inadequate supervision and contractors cutting corners, maybe for greater profit. Do not forget that there are many secondary contractors involved when the main contractor has skimmed off all the profits for their contract. In my opinion ( I am a practicing doctor ) 1. There must be something wrong with the camps, location, hygiene and sanitation, 2. Food supply, poor quality, unclean, contaminated, 3. Poor pre-NS evaluation. It is possible that some of the trainees taken in may have some pre-morbid condition undetected. 4. The training routine, is it too much for the trainees. 5. Poor medical examiners when NS trainees have complaints. Maybe referring too often cost the contractor and so reduces profit margin. The tendency then is not to refer until the patient is moribund.
They must take a very close look ( hopefully by independent inspectors ) to go through the whole training camp process. Include some independent senior doctors. This is a serious issue. Too many have died. In the meantime, suspend the programme.
Contracting out the pre-NS medical examinations is just to feed another crony who will in due time take profit above responsibility.
All NS deaths must have a post-mortem to establish an exact cause of death.
If the powers that be refuse all of the above, to advise parents not to allow the children to answer the NS call-up. Better to face prosecution than to organise a funeral. I am sure that if the majority of parents refuse, they will have to look into the matter seriously. They cannot lockup everybody? 21 deaths in 4-5 years at this age group is not acceptable.
This stupid NS is wasting people money, one pad of maggie mee is charge Rm 2, How much we have to pay one trainer uniform, How much can trainer learn within 3 months, for what purpose having the shooting, Scrap it now, for sure i won’t send my daugther for this type of stupid training, I think money spend on the NS goes to somebody high ranking pocket. PR please do , When and Who will be the next trainer is going to die ?
As far as I know, Outward Bound School (OBS) is much tougher, challenging and dangerous than our “National Service” holiday camp.
How many young people died, fell seriously ill or were badly injured in OBS all these years since 1950s?
See the difference?
Scrap the NS programme now! and exclude for female trainees
Tuesday May 13, 2008 MYT 4:40:26 PM
PSD rejects 10 A1 student for scholarship
By SYLVIA LOOI
IPOH: An aspiring doctor had her dreams dashed when the Public Services Department (PSD) rejected her application to study medicine overseas.
K. Kamine Devi, who scored 10 A1s in last year’s SPM, said she had her heart set on becoming a doctor that she even participated in an attachment programme which exposed her to a doctor’s job in April.
“I refused to believe my eyes when I found out on Sunday through the PSD website that my application was unsuccessful,” she said on Tuesday, adding that she checked the result of her application several times to confirm.
“I felt that my world collapsed that day,” said the 17-year-old former science stream student of SMK Ahmad Boestamam in Sitiawan, about 90km from here.
Speaking at a press conference called by State Health, Environment and Human Resources Committee chairman A. Sivanesan, Kamine Devi said her confidence was boosted when the PSD issued a statement recently guaranteeing scholarships for students who scored 9As in their SPM.
“I just want to become a doctor so I can serve the country,” said the daughter of a quality controller father and a housewife mother.
“With my father’s monthly salary of RM3,600, he will not be able to send me overseas to study medicine,” she said, adding that she was active in her school’s co-curriculum activities.
To make matters worse, Kamine Devi’s application to matriculation programmes was also rejected.
Sivanesan said Kamine Devi’s rejection made a mockery of PSD’s earlier statement.
“The PSD should have taken the top scorers result from the Malaysian Examination Syndicate and offer scholarships to the students.
“The onus is on the students whether they want to accept or reject the scholarships,” he said.
He also invited parents of children who face the same predicament as Kamine Devi to come forward and see him.
“I will assist them in writing to the PSD,” he said.
From her name, is it because she’s an Indian?
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/5/13/nation/20080513163948&sec=nation
ya, saya bersetuju yg ns program itu harus dilupuskan. kerana ia tidak banyak memberi manfaat kepada pelatih2 muda terutamanya pelatih wanita dan juga mereka yg mempunyai masalah kesihatan dalaman yg tidak diketahui. Oleh itu kita nampak hari ini banyak kes kematian yg berlaku dan ada juga yang cedera sama ada patah kaki atau patah tangan semasa latihan yg tidak dilaporkan dan juga penyakit2 misteri yg tak dapat dipastikan( saya hanya berpendapat jika ia benar)
Jikalau NS program 3 bulan yg dirancangkan oleh kerajaan itu semata-mata utk memerikan kesihatan mental,fizikal ataupun untuk memupuk pergaulan diantara pelatih2 itu, Saya mencadangkan agar mereka dilatih di sekolah dimana mereka masuk ke tingkatan 1,2,3,4 dan 5. Justeru sekolah haruslah menyediakan peralatan seperti jym yg sempurna kepada mereka.
Ini adalah lebih selamat dan dapat menjamin keselamatan mereka di sekolah daripada mereka berlatih di kem latihan ataupun di hutan.
Lagipun kerajaan dapat menjimatkan wang bermilion ringgit utk program yg tidak bermanfaat itu dan edarkan wang itu utk membeli peralatn jym di semua sekolah. Selain itu ia juga dapat mententeramkan rasa takut dan gelisah di kalangan ibubapa (keluarga) mengenai anak2 mereka selama ini.
Setahu saya mereka juga dilatih menembak menggunan peluru hidup ini juga amat membahayakan.tidak masuk akal . Adakah dgn latihan 3 bulan itu mereka akan menjadi penembak yg baik? Mereka bukannya tentera atau pun polis untuk dikerah ke medan perang jika ada apa2 conflik belaku. Mereka adalah anak2 murid yg akan melanjutkan pelajaran mereka utk masa depan mereka.
Harap kerajaan melupuskan program akan dapat menjadi kenyataan.
Almost 20 people died, it is time DAP now (a after the 8 March Tsunami, with such a strong support given by the Rakyat) put a strong protest and call for the IMMEDIATE suspension of this NS scheme.
Suspend NOW and install all the necessary measures before it revived.
Malaysians definitely do not deserve this.
I sincerely beg the Cabinet to put the entire programme on hold and start looking into the National DIS-Service Programme until there is an explanation on what is really going on.
21 deaths is just too much in such a short span of time. The Rakyat simply does not know what’s going on inside these camps and who is accountable for the safety and well-being of these kids.
But there’s a few things we do know: the profiteering of the NS programme is on-going, even as the death tolls continues and that the programme as a whole has failed miserably in their claim to create a more united nation.
The Rakyat deserves the truth!
It’s even more disheartened that the emergency motion is rejected.
For what i know, in countries like Taiwan and Singapore, all the boys (because girls are excluded) MUST undergo medical checking before they enter the camp…
Just wondering why statement like “The government is considering compelling all National Service (NS) trainees to undergo a medical test before joining the programme to avoid health-related problems at the camps.” appeared. (quoted from NST Online)
How many years has the NS being carried out?
“Sex education and the danger of HIV and Aids will be among several new courses to be introduced under the National Service (NS) training programme starting October.” This is what i get from NST Online too.
Just to add another comment.
Time now is 12.50am, 14th May 2008, and the last updated time of Jabatan Latihan Khidmat Negara is “6 Mei 2008”. I didn’t even find any condolence in the website.
http://www.khidmatnegara.gov.my/utamapilih.htm
The gomen does not really care about those NS youngsters as cases of death has yet to hit their families. Do it just for the sake of having it. I doubt there is a follow through of those kids’ welfare. The gomen’s officials is only concerned on how much they gonna cash in. If not, there won’t be so many NS death cases. To the lame gomen, 1 or 2 death are simply a small % compare to the number of recruit but to the victim’s family, it is everything. This should be happening to those gomen’s official who made the decision so that they could understand the misery and lost of the victims’ families.
Again and again Malaysia deserves its year in – year out, brain-drain routine. The 10A’s top scorer has been rejected for her excellent result. Should look elsewhere and apply Uni or Poly in Singapore. Singapore value talents and merits instead of abang-adik mediocres. That’s is the reason why Singapore is so advance and developed. They could give full scholarship too. The PSD is full of assholes and only chooses their race and always “boleh-tahan or lower” grade students get the best courses. Nothing has been change in Malaysia screwed up education system since 18 years ago cause I was rejected my academic years too. That’s why we could see most of the half-baked doctors due to half-baked academic results.
Take a look of the link, a doctor & gomen get sued for gross negligence. It is either new born baby end up dead, fractured arm or having the whole arm infected and end up no wrist. Wearing the doctors’ uniform may make these people look great but in actual fact they are the pethatic empty walking milo tins due to lack of knowledge.
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=22310
It is time to scrap the ‘National Service’ program – it is a waste of time and resources -better use the money to control the inflation or development…
What has National Service program achieved after introduced many years ago? Unity? No! Don’t talk about unity when the citizens from different ethnic groups are not treated equally in this country!
National service is another example of failure of the goverment!
P.M. & D.P.M. are not even looking into this death matters to serve for the country. Adakah ini contoh budibahasa kita??? Tidak peduli langsung? atau tidak ada mata untuk melihat langsung???
Then why do rakyat care about the NS? Sending our children to the graves??? The goverment should compansate to the innocent parents and parents should sue against NS.
NS program is actually good for the country but Malaysia is not up to the standard yet because of the poor facilities they give.
How much more excuses do you want us to tolerate??? It is crazy & totally unacceptable!
Face it to the national court! Bring these cases to national court! Dare to face your mistakes, you bunch of Jokers goverment.
I do not know why the government wants to start National Service and this National Service thing they dish out is no national service if by national service one would take it to mean that young men usually between the age of 18 and 20 are conscripted to train in the army for one year or more so that they can be made use of to form a reserve unit.
Nor is the purpose, the government says it has, of the so called National Service thing as an instrument to create and foster unity working.How could it be when the government couldn’t do it for the past 11 years of their school life? In fact the government is the biggest culprit in segregating the races by their policies.
So the easiest thing (so they think) to do is to model National Service after Outward Bound School.But they have forgotten that instructors at Outward Bound are well trained and most of all the ratio of participants to instructor is kept low so that every participant can be monitored closely by instructors.In the case of National Service I am pretty sure these things like well qualified instructors and participant to instructure are not given enough emphasis resulting in such a mess.In fact Sheriff Singh has hit the nail on the head when he asks “How many young people died, fell seriously ill or ever badly injured in OBS all these years since 1950s?”. As far as I can recall, none. And how many died in such a short history of National Service??? Shocking if you ask me.Can this situation be reversed? Honestly I don’t see how it could coming from these HP6 government!!
Correction.” In the case of National Service…………………..
and participant to instructor ratio………………………………”.
When the time come I will not send my children to NS. But can anyone here enlighten me what will be mine or my child’s consequence of not taking part in it. I think even if I am dragged to the court, can I argue that because of all the many published death in NS camp, I choose self preservation of defending my child’s life.
Everybody knows the NS is not going to be canceled regardless. That’s one of the way to benefit those corrupted UMNO cronies with all the different contracts.
You only have to ask and trace who ultimately reaps business and financial benefits year in and year out from tailoring/supply of NS uniforms, food to the camps, recruitment of trainers to understand why the National Service Program is one of the biggest National Hypocrisy Program consistently defended by certain people no matter that death toll of young Malaysians has increased to the 16th. The family of latest victim, Too Hui Min, 18, want to sue the government. They said they were seeking legal redress because they did not believe she died of a colon infection. Hui Min did not have any health problems. Malaysians should support the family’s quest for full acountability. In the same manner we Malaysians could support a foreigner Dr Shaariibuu Setev to seek acountability and justice for questionable death of his daughter Altantuya Shariibuu, so we should support Hui Min’s father Too Jong Sing to seek justice for his daughter’s death. Something is very rotten in the state of Malaysia Shakespeare would have written had he used Malaysia and not Denmark as focal point of his drama play “Hamlet”. Ya, “everybody knows the NS is not going to be canceled regardless” as what menarambo said as much as everybody know where is the ultimately the problem but fear of saying it in case – invocation of the SEDITION ACT!!!!!!!!! Kit please fight for our children, fight against this hypocrisy, call for royal commission to fight against this scam of somebody somewhere making money at expense of 16 young malaysian lives being put on the line. If no royal commission I think we should contribute RM1-00 for setting up a fund to hire and pay a team of intrepid private investigators to investigate and give a report which you should make known the answers toi all these questions of who benefit in our Parliament.
srap the NS NS stand for Nanti Sakit. NS is to foster unity among races. For more than of 50 years in’pence the BN policies create this problem, just for 3 month want to foster unity among races .To the BN Don’t talk cock. To LLT Go n fly kite
National Service = National Death Camp
Is NS meeting it objective ? What is the aim of having paramilitary training for young Malaysian ? It is by law, young Malaysians are selected and dumped into an environment that under the control of Ministry of Defence but we are told it only 3 months and it is not to make soldiers out of them. Malaysia is NOT AT WAR with anyone, but yet, people are dying in this camp. Since it started IN 2003, how many have lost their lives? Is it not strange that we have people dying in training camps instead of battle-fields ? Why is it that we have a much higher death rate when we compared to Malaysians serving in the military ?
How many of us reading here have asked
1) Why none of the UNMO/BN polly kids/grandkids in NS ? Are they too fat, too unfit, just too stupid or do they know how dangerous it is to enter the Malaysian Death Camp ? Since it started, how many ministers’ grandchildren or child been to NS ? Can we have those stats or is that information OSA ?
2) Why isn’t the camp commander or people in the chain of command charged? I thought it was under the control of the military. I would like to see an investigation for every NS death and camp commanders charged under the criminal code.
Since it started in 2003 – 5 years, there have been too many death. In any other organization – Outbound or otherwise, these many death would have triggered an investigation long ago. Looking at other overseas cases, criminal charges resulted. I am sure a lot of Malaysian parents would agreed with me – no child life is worth a slap on the wrist (on the camp commanders). Today, make every camp commander criminally liable for every death, with the max penalty be a death sentence. Make it equal to murder, drug and firearm crimes. Better still, get rid of this stupid idea of NS. Until then, all my children will NEVER NEVER go to NS “death camp” and I will fight the system that will kill them to the extend of going to jail. Otherwise, I will fail as a parent.
Totally agree with Lupus. My kids WILL NOT go to the BN death camps! Want to drag me through the system, fine.
But remember, a sword cuts both ways and the responsible parties, beware. You kill my kids, you know what’ll happen…
The NS plank can be one powerful platform for PR to use in the next GE if they have have not aready formed the govt by then.
There should also be an independent audit on those camps where trainees died or came down with food poisoning, quarantine.
National Service?
Wot National Service?
Its stupid and it is senseless.
It is just a 3months camp.
And death during such camps?
Without any live rounds fired?
Without any leaping off helicopters?
Without throwing hand grenades?
and yet we have deaths and deaths and more deaths?
Incompetence and negligence must be the reason.
Res ipsa loquitor, I would add.
I will proudly let my children miss NS.
I have no faith in the running of the whole thing.
Yes – No confidence.
Fold it man.
Just fold it up.
Those people so call paramedic are no paramedic they are just a bunch of idiots making gaji buta.
So what you are specialist or what ever you want to call it, if one does possess the common sense and the urgency to treat ant compliant how small and how stupid may the compliant look like.
If all compliant was treated like a minister or vvip’s compliant the scenario may be very very much different.
Just like how the police will act on say a minister home was be burgled?
Does anyone know if any of the minister’s kids are called up for the NS training? Can they feel the pain of the NS death-camps? We need a lawyer to advise us if anyone can refuse NS, as a conscientious objector, and claim fear of death as a reason? We may die for the country at war, but surely not die for NS?
The NS is nothing more than another “ingenious” scheme cooked up along the lines of privatised projects to benefit a select group of cronies, except that there is minimum investment required (no need for bank loans), with no risk. No need to worry about budgetting, cashflow or cost over-runs in overheads.
Once you have the services contract in hand, you stand to reap extraordinary profits and your only concern is how fast your bank account grows and not the welfare of the NS trainees.
This morning I read that they are contemplating “sex education” as part of the NS curriculum. What NONSENSE in this?
The NS had been running for a few years, can that DAP turncoat Lee Lam Thye, as Chairman of NS enlighten us on the results and achievements of the NS:
1. How do you measure “patriotism”? What was the measured index of “patriotism” of youths before and after their NS camp?
2.Has unity among the multi-racial youths enhanced after the NS?
If ever there is any improvement in creating “unity” through the NS, can this “unity” be sustainable into the future as these youths mature?
3. Character building and moral education, is the NS more effective than the traditional family education by parents on such traditional subjects?
4. Can you disclose to the public the breakdown of the total NS expenditure/expenses item by item?
5. What are the benefits, quantitative as well as qualitative, of the NS achieved so far?
6. What compensation has the NS or the Govt made to the families who are unfortunate to have lost their loved ones in the NS?
We must demand answers from Lee Lam Thye and hold him responsible for the lost lives and the sinister agenda behind this whole NS scam.
Firstly my deepest condolences to the family of the late Ms Too. As a parent of a 18 year old girl myself, I can understand their feelings and grief at this senseless loss of a child just about to embark on the most exciting phase of her life.
I read Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye’s letter to the STAR yesterday on this latest NS death. It appears to me that Tan Sri was trying to defend himself and the Council again in the first part of his letter. He lamented again that there is nothing he can do since he does not have executive powers, which lies squarely with the DG of the NS Training Programme. His letter went on to suggest that the lack of proper implementation of the rules and regulations (some of which have been suggested by the Council) by the camp commandants and staff was the cause of these deaths.
This makes me wonder. If these commandants would even ignore the Chairman and the Council’s advice, what chance do parents have to make their views known and accepted by these camp commandants? What is the use of parents bringing up such concerns to the Chairman or the Council? Tan Sri LLT had also said that these camp commandants only take their orders from the DG. But if you have a DG who had the gall to say publicly “…one of two deaths will not stop the NS programme..” or something to that effect, would you have confidence in the whole set up? If the top man has such a callous, apathetic and insensitive mindset for young human lives, it stands to reason that his lower levels staff are just as bad, if not worse. Do these people not have children themselves? Do their concience trouble them when a child placed under their care dies because of their neglect? Do they have human feelings at all?
But the statement that is the icing on the cake is the DPM’s comment that the NS programme cannot be stopped because “..there are too many parties involved…” Who are these parties involved and why are their interests so important that it takes priority over the lives of young people? Coming from the man where all the buck should stop, this is indeed very troubling.
The Chairman and the Council for the National Service Training Programme have failed miserably and should do the honourable thing and resign en bloc. We do not expect the main culprits to resign voluntarily. We also do not expect the DPM to announce that the programme will be stopped since he has stated publicly he is concerned about the ” parties involved”. The only option left is for the Opposition MPs to take up this issue in Parliament. We, the rakyat will know what to do with those MPs who will vote to support this programme.
This must be one of the worst organized NS (if not the worst) in the world for countries not at war!
Just main main for 3 mths also can cause so many death, No Med check up, to start with?
Instructors / trainers are all HP6 one?
Scrap, this NS at ONCE, if those suckers wan 2 make money, there are other way lah!
All those officers / trainers / instructors that are found guilty of negligence which cause death should get a mandatory 5 strokes of the rotan, and min. 2 years jail ! Only then will these nuts be serious about their works.
Deepest condolences to Too Hui Min’s family. It’s always so so sad when a young person passed away so unexpectedly.
From the outset, the NS idea has been a failed exercise that will not and never achieve its objective (ie, national unity among the multiracial citizens, starting from the young people).
The NS is out of sync with the mainstream ‘ketuanan Melayu’ policy practised by Umno and the BN. How can our government expect our young people to suddenly love and respect the government (please note: there is a big difference between the government and the nation) and embrace national unity by participating in the short NS, when all children in Malaysia are fully aware of the unequal opportunities, based on race, available to them when they reach 12 years old and beyond?
K. Kamine Devi, 17, who scored 10A1s in last year’s SPM, was not successful in getting a PSD scholarship. Her application for a matriculation programme was also rejected. This will not be the first and last discrimination/hurdle, based on race, that Kamine and many other young people will experience in years to come. What does the BN government expect Kamine to feel, even if she had attended the NS?
Just like “justice must be seen to be done”, “fairness must also be seen to be done”. Empty talks and brain-washing camps are totally useless.
Our NS camps are potential death camps – parents send their children there at their own risk. Death wish!
Why is the NS still on? Who is the chairman of the Cabinet Committee on the NS Programme? The cynics will say that we can C 4 oursleves that it is another unending and easy gravy train, though tainted with blood, for the inner group ‘elites’ (sic)!
After guns, now the NS organisers want to introduce sex education to NS trainees. We will wait and see what kind of sex education will be taught or practised in NS camps. The proof of the pudding is 9 months after NS!!
On a positive note, let’s all rejoice with and congratulate Nicol David who reclaimed the British Open title (squash), her third.
I don’t have any children eligible for NS but would like to suggest to those whose children will be affected to form a anti-NS group and lobby your MPs to bring up the matter in Parliament.
If that does not change/improve the situation make it an issue for the next elections. Just a few people not allowing your child to go is not going to make a difference.
In reaction to such deaths, they are now suggesting full medical examination. Such examinations may or may not pick up pre-existing illness, but some illness are contracted during the camps leading to deaths, so a 100% medically fit person can still succumb to infectious disease, injuries and perhaps heat strokes and dehydration.
I will bet the medical exam scheme will be privatised to a company ala FOMEMA, where the company can skim off a percentage of the fees.
As shown by the endless reports of food poisoning in schools throughout the country, the deaths of so many NS trainees must be due to the tainted food being served in the camps. It is a well-known secret that the hostel food caterers, to maximise their profits, use the cheapest and hence least hygenic ingredients in their daily meal preparations. Of course, the NS trainers and other officials would be served with entirely different specially cooked meals. And I am willing to bet that the drinking water available to the trainees is of the unfiltered, unboiled straight from the pipe/well type.
To look further into the food poisoning in schools, the policy of banning non-halal food in canteens is one reason pupils cannot avoid the frequently contaminated food as our food handlers are not well trained.
Also packaged food like nasi lemak tends to be kept unchilled for too long and in our humid weather goes bad fast (coconut milk and eggs are good breeding grounds for bacteria).
The Ed Ministry should allow pupils to bring food from home and a small secton designated as a non-halal area. We need our young children to tolerate those who are different from them.
I know it may sound simple but can the Parents just say “NO”! Refuse to send your kids to these “Death Camps”! I doubt the Government can force anyone cause they can’t guarantee the safety of these kids, can they?!
How many have died so far in this Camps? Someone told me around 18!
Even if was just 1 there should have been alarms ringing all over the place but the Governemnet is doing what? Medical Exam before entering?
What will the full medical examination exam do? In this recent case, the late Too Hui Min was supposed to be a healthy girl (what a waste, she had such a bright future to look forward to!).
First of all, let us offer our prayers for Too Hui Min and her parents and family. Secondly,let us put ourselves in the shoes of Too Hui Min’s parents and we will know how sad we will be when our loved ones died especially if they died without justification!!! just imagine that when they sent her off to NS camp, she was still alive and gave them joy,now, she is dead half way through NS camp!!!
To me, the root cause of all these problems with death in NS camps, food poisoning in schools etc. etc. with never ending shamful examples are the direct results of INCOMPETENT people who are holding the position which supposed to be qualified i.e. having the necessary qualifications (and not KULITfication) and experience (and not experience gained by using pencil or pen to poke at patient and ask them whether it is a lump!!!); Our education system have failed to produce really qualified doctors/teachers/engineers/technicians!!! instead, it has produced “qualified” doctors/teachers/engineers etc. that are not recognised by professional bodies except may be Malaysia’s . Exam marks in the universities were adjusted to make those who failed badly to pass, those who passed to get first class etc. etc. . There’s no more standard now. If we look deeper into the problems why education system failed etc. , then we will know that it is due to INCOMPETENT BN govn. , why we still have BN govn. and bring all these problems to ourselves???
Time to change!!!
Dear YB Kit,
I pitied Malaysians and cried for us.
Why are we in this kind of REALLY, REALLY, REALLY UNNECESSARY SITUATION??! Don’t we deserve better as CITIZENS??!
There can’t be ANY SATISFACTORY ANSWERS available to this kind of FARCICAL CIRCUS-LIKE ADMINISTRATION!!!
Tell me in your most honest conscience, how do your answer such NONSENSICAL AND ILLOGICAL causes of deaths to HEALTHY children???!
1. EATEN ANIMAL FAECES?
2. MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS?
3. UNKNOWN FEVER?
4. NEGLIGENCE? (WHOSE NEGLIGENCE??)
5. UNTRAINED CAMP PERSONNEL? (WHY START NS THEN??!)
6. NO BASIC PROTECTION??! (WHERE IS QUALIFIED MEDICAL STAFF??)
7. 90 DAYS TO FOSTER NATIONAL UNITY? (YOU HAVE BEEN FIGHTING FOR HALF YOUR LIFE, SIR)
8. RAPE? (18 YEAR OLD GIRLS??!)
9. PEEPING??!
10. CAPITAL-LIKE PUNISHMENT IN THE CAMPS??!
11. etc, etc , etc, etc………………!!!
I sincerely beg you YB Kit, and SABAH MPs and SARAWAK MPs, throw the [deleted] PLEASE………WE ARE IN THE YEAR 2008 AND APPROACHING 2009, WE DON’T NEED UNEDUCATED HEARTLESS [deleted] TO GOVERN THIS “NICE” COUNTRY!!!
Dear Mr Lim,
I would like to know whetehr there are any laws at present that forbids us parents from sending our children to these ‘death camps’.
Should we parents decide, ‘Ok. This rubbish has gone on for far too long and it is time that we parents need to make a statement and we choose to make a statement by NOT sending our children to these death camps.’, what then is the consequence of our act?
Kindly advise.
Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye should just resign from the Chairman post since he failed to get things done. No point making lots of excuses in the press and every where!!! he may think that it would be better for him to stay there, but I believe there are many more quailified people that can be the Chairman!!! No one is indispensable in this world, without him there, we might see some improvements!!!
That is how ridiculous & angry when I saw
the death news again!
That is not our kid, but many of us already feel
sad and frustrated.
Imagine if that is our kid, how sad will it be?!
We can see, every year, how many
of such case will happen? I cannot
remember, but I just remember that
it happens quite often!
Truely very very very sad to me.
What has our government really done
in minimizing such incident to happen?
Why does our government always
implements something which they
do not actually have a good and proper
pre-planning of what action they will take,
if this or that happens?
I don’t see any. Only when problems happen,
they only come and seek for solutions!!!
Truely SAD to me!
Those are people’s children. Before going
to the camp, they are still alive. After
going to the camp, they are dead!
What the heck is that?!!! Too Sad!
Yeah folks let’s close down NS because of the deaths. Why stop there, let’s ban driving because it is killing thousands. And let’s not foget to close down KFC & Mc D, etc because of all these deaths from cholestrol and heart problems.
Definition of robber by merriam online: (BN + UMNO; i.e. ROBBER)
Please take note of “unjustly or injuriously”….
transitive verb1 a (1): to take something away from by force : steal from
(2): to take personal property from by violence or threat
b (1): to remove valuables without right from (a place)
(2): to take the contents of (a receptacle)
c: to take away as loot : steal 2
a: to deprive of something due, expected, or desired b: to withhold unjustly or injuriously in transitive verb: to commit robbery
— rob·ber noun
NOT ONLY UNJUSTLY OUR MONEY IS ROBBED, NOW EVEN OUR CHILDREN’S LIVES ARE ALSO TAKEN AWAY INJURIOUSLY!!!!
WTFTPADGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear killer,
if you want to be sarcastic and remain insensitive to the feelings of Malaysians, please stay away and retreat back to your ‘hole’ or ‘lubang’ paradise for the sake of all Malaysians! [deleted]
YCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Yeah folks let’s close down NS because of the deaths. Why stop there, let’s ban driving because it is killing thousands. And let’s not foget to close down KFC & Mc D, etc because of all these deaths from cholestrol and heart problems.” – Killer
Killer,
If you keep your mouth shut, no body would say that you are dumb!!! please dont equate all those killed because of other things like driving, KFC or Mc D, these deaths were due to own personal choice and not NS Camp where your life is in the hands of those who are incompetent!!!
Many driving accidents in Malaysia were due to very bad roads and KOPI O licences where licence can be bought easily!!! another good e.g. of failure of BN govn. !!!
Killer, U keep yr stupid mouth shut, NS is a forced one! unlike driving or KFC,(One dont hv to eat at KFC, or drive if One do not wan to!)
[deleted]
wanredone Says:
Today at 11: 42.40 (1 minute ago)
PLEASE DONT MAKE RACIST COMMENT HERE! OK?, Blame only present govt, Dont blame Malay! OK?
KingKenny / I_love_malaysia
Death is a death, whether you die in a NS camp or in a road accident for the loss is no less painful.
BTW can please explain since when deaths in road accidents become a personal choice ?
When we have a problem, we should investigate and fix the root cause. That’s the sensible and smart way. Let us not adopt an idiotic and self-defeating attitude of sweeping the problem under the carpet by demanding the NS camps to be closed down.
The deaths need to be investigated (perhaps independently) to assess the actual causes. If they are due to negligence, then appropriate actions should be taken to fix the problem. But if the deaths are due to long term medical condition, I am not sure if we can hold NS responsible.
cheng on soo Says:
Today at 11: 44.16 (6 minutes ago)
Killer, U keep yr stupid mouth shut, NS is a forced one! unlike driving or KFC,(One dont hv to eat at KFC, or drive if One do not wan to!)
[deleted]
=================================================
cheng on soo :
I am not offended by your comments though it is in a very poor taste. I guess it reflects your personality and values as a person….
Since the 1980s the military balance between Singapore and Malaysia moved decisively in favour of Singapore, making an offensive strategy – the so called pre-emptive strike – a realistic option for the island republic.The Singapore’s Armed Forces qualitative and quatitative strength over the Malaysian Armed Forces are well-entrenched.In 2000 SAF’s mobilised strength stood at 350,000 personnel whilst MAFtotalled only about 145,000.Also SAF’s crucial strength lies in its armoured force and air force.
Thus at the height of Malaysia’s quarrel with Singapore, it must have occurred to him that there could also be a possibilty of an armed conflict between the two nations.To narrow the advantage Singapore has in both manpower and hardware Mahathir’s administration went about purchasing French subs(resulting inmore than 500million ringgit commmission according to Anwar Ibrahim), Polish tanks to the tune of 1 billion USD and finally purchasing Russian SUKHOIs to the tune of 1 billion USD.To narrow the manpower gap the mamak went to introduce the NS concept. However on second thought the idea of training so many people to handle weapons must have persuaded them to back track and thus the current NS program has turned into an Outward Bound school program!!
Make no mistake about it the Outward Bound School Program is in fact a fantastic program.The whole idea of an Outward Bound School program when it was first conceived has a noble objective to offer to the Malayan industry,educational establishments,youth organisation,trade union,government and public authorities,parents and others the opportunities to provide special character training for the young men by sending them for a course at the school.This was in 1952 and the first course started in 1955 and since then the Outward Bound School has done a marvellous job to the young men and women of Malaysia.It is not a death camp as depicted by some of the commenters.You’ll find quite a few Singaporeans attending the school at Lumut.
Having said this,the NS program conducted by the government is in fact a sham.As mentioned by k1980 food poisoning could be also the culprit.However my suspicion is still in the lack of quality and quantity in the number of instructors currently in the NS program.The whole crux in the success of the program lies crucially in the participant to instructor ratio.If they do not know the optimum ratio they can easily refer to the Outward Bound School in Aberdovey England where the first outward bound school is borned or check up the Outward Bound School Directory whereby one can get access to all the outward bound schools world wide (Australia,New Zealand,South Africa,Finland, Hong Kong Etc etc).
The other thing I feel compelled to utter is that Lee Lam Tye must resign as the Chairman.He simply can’t offer the excuse that the camp commandants report to DGs and that DGs do not report to him.That’s a bloody lame excuse.Organisational structures especially military or in the case of the Outward Bound Schools are pyramidal in structure and therefore it can only lead to one apex.LLT is saying that there is more than one apex.I’ll say to him its better that he resign if he has any honour left in him.
killer,
what you have suggested is no PIONEER!…in fact that is what all right thinking people in this blog is PRESSURING FOR!!
And in fact, in my first response to YB Kit regarding death of Too Hui Min…I have specifically ask YB Kit to ask Parliament and in turn GOVERNMENT to provide BASIC, BASIC protection for children if NS were to continue!
But after 16 deaths, what are the improvements that your right thinking mind can point out to me that government has improve in NS issue?!
Perhaps you would want NS deaths toll to EQUAL the road deaths toll then only the Government will launch “Ops Sikap” to lower fatalities!!!
100, 1000 deaths? Give us here a number that you think would be reasonable for us to ask government to improve, improve, improve.
What we want is BASIC PROTECTION, and we are not afforded even that!
You can take your smart way points elsewhere by being sarcastic and insensitive in your statement of KFC an McD!!
Duh!!!….
Can anyone explain, why get a person into NS, without full Medical check up of that person? The whole program is just very very badly organized!
Killer,
Some drove carelessly, drinking, overspeeding, racing, mat rempit etc. and as a result involved in accident and deaths – Is this not by choice??? unless they committed all these out of dissatisfied with Malaysian life due to BN govn. , yes, it is true, I felt pressure whenever I’m on the road due to poor road conditions, signages etc. etc. -all due to failure of BN govn.
Ladies/Gentlemen,
All lifes are precious in the eyes of God, so never say that one’s life is more precious than the other!!! A Malay or Chinese or Indian or any other life is the same before God and to their loved ones. If you have children, you will always think that your baby is the best, dont you? even though they may be naughty, or dont score well in exams, but they are still the best!!!
We need an independent audit team, to ensure these NS camp are fit for the childrens to live in. And what is their policy in case a trainees seek treatment, how fast they can respond to his or her ailments? Do they serve quality food to the childrens, i think they serve unhygienic food and not nutritious enough for the childrens to become weak, and the program too much exposure to the sun, will cause the body to generate tremendous heat. These NS camp are build near jungles, mean there are many wild spirits roaming which will cause the childrens to suffer from hysteria.
Well, PL jus wanted to profit from NS uniform sales, and govt. subsidies on food which benefit their political cronies NS camp catering & contractors.
Wild spirit will disturb those young souls causing imbalance in Chi, this if prolong will make the kids suffer from sickness. Well, the program and the food further weaken their immune system. In the end, they will die.
Imagine putting a saltwater fish into a freshwater tank. Childrens are the same, certain kids has higher adaptability instinct, whereas some has lower. Most of these kids, require tender care, especially when their immune system are not yet fully developed as an adult.
When I’m a kid at that age, i’m sick with Asthma, thanks god a Malacca chinese doctor has cured it using chinese traditional medicine. I’m also suffer from diarhoe & fever from the dirty food i eat during my 6 yrs in Malay school. These is all the Malay management, they don’t care or bothered much abt. quality, sometime u will find cooked “ulat” or cockroaches in canteen managed by the Malay.
Are they stupid? or do they use their brain to think how to improve the food like the chinese did.
If u kill one they call it a murder, if u kill more than that, it will become a statistic.
The 16th death is an isolated case which the BN govt. will off course denied from responsibility again. Even without the NS program, there will still be childrens losing their life to murderer, sickness, and accidents. That statistic could be more. With all these, sure BN govt. won’t bother much.
What we hated is that, the Malay who managed these NS camp, don’t give a shyt, when report is been filed, they take it very lightly as if nothing happen.
You go anywhere in Malaysia, they don’t take things seriously, that kind of lackaidascal attitude u can clearly observe in govt. departments whenever a proposal is submitted or application etc.
If u want things to get solved fast, u need to give them special grants or tips, then they talk abt. efficiency.
1 death 2 death 3 death —— 16 death, there will be maybe 100 death in another 3 years, jus hope ur childs are not 1 of the unlucky one. It is hopeless with BN govt, as the leader indulge in benefiting from NS uniforms, NS camp food catering, and contract supplier of NS camp. How many % they get at the expense of Rakyat and the dying childrens?
When there’s no competition in the govn, semua abang adik, so why bother to do more!!! the one who does more is not promoted, the one who does less got promoted because of skin colour and religion, so there’s no necessity to improve productivity and efficiency!!! untill the world is under UN and we will see that they have to compete with every one else on earth!!!
i_love_malaysia Says:
Today at 12: 13.40 (1 hour ago)
Killer,
Some drove carelessly, drinking, overspeeding, racing, mat rempit etc. and as a result involved in accident and deaths – Is this not by choice??? unless they committed all these out of dissatisfied with Malaysian life due to BN govn. , yes, it is true, I felt pressure whenever I’m on the road due to poor road conditions, signages etc. etc. -all due to failure of BN govn.
==================================================
I think you have confused yourself and the others here by your convoluted thought process.
My point is just because of these deaths on the roads (whatever the causes), we cannot just ban driving. You cannot take such drastic action just because there some morons are driving recklessly.
And BTW, don’t blame others for your problems like the lack of signage,etc. The main cause of accidents in Malaysis reckless driving, and not the road condition or signage.
kingkenny Says:
Today at 12: 07.09 (1 hour ago)
killer,
what you have suggested is no PIONEER!…in fact that is what all right thinking people in this blog is PRESSURING FOR!!
==================================================
KingKenny :
THEY ARE DRINKING BLOOD AND EATING HUMAN FLESH….RARE!!!!!!!!!
=========================
lakilompat :
lakilompat Says:
Today at 12: 44.56 (39 minutes ago)
Wild spirit will disturb those young souls causing imbalance in Chi, this if prolong will make the kids suffer from sickness. Well, the program and the food further weaken their immune system. In the end, they will die.
==============================================
KingKenny,
Sorry, unless you are talking about an alternative LKS blog, I don’t see people here providing any constructive and logical suggestions until I raised my concerns on the idiocasy of these posts.
Just look at the comments made by yourself and lakilompat, both of you sound as though you guys urgently require some psychiatric help.
What’s the price tag for an innocent life? Go ask Najib and Rosmah.
And to those who argued that just becos driving too claimed lives and thus we too shld ban cars altogether are nothing but a bunch of idiots!
Those who are afraid of getting mauled on the roads hv the choice of not to drive. Wheras NS, once u hv been chosen, do u hv the choice to opt out? For goodness sake! The whole programme is stupid. How much is the rakyat paying so that some ppl can make huge profit from it? So some of them got to use weapons. So what? Until it happens to your own child you wont feel a single bit of sadness.
killer:
I think you have confused yourself and the others here by your convoluted thought process.
My point is just because of these deaths on the roads (whatever the causes), we cannot just ban driving. You cannot take such drastic action just because there some morons are driving recklessly.
And BTW, don’t blame others for your problems like the lack of signage,etc. The main cause of accidents in Malaysis reckless driving, and not the road condition or signage.
===============================================
By “reckless driving” you mean “incompetency”.
So, “incompetent” drivers should not have been issued Kopi-O license in the first place.
Driving should NOT be banned but WE should ban Kopi-O license holder and issuer TO IMPROVE COMPETENCY in the roads of Malaysia.
Likewise, NS and NS administrators should be dissolved or BANNED until a more COMPETENT SYSTEM is in place to promote whatever goodwill the government deemed appropriate to avoid unnecessary deaths!
Will this solve your “CONCERN” for the high death rate in Malaysian roads and of course the NS??!
Don’t call other people opinions CONVOLUTED when you yourself mix KFC, McD, road fatalities with the lives of young citizens of Malaysia!!!!!!!!!
IDIOTIC AND HYPOCRITE!!!
killer:
KingKenny,
Sorry, unless you are talking about an alternative LKS blog, I don’t see people here providing any constructive and logical suggestions until I raised my concerns on the idiocasy of these posts.
=================================================
To: killer
Which part of your posts that were so CONSTRUCTIVE?!
KFC?
McD?
What a hypocrite!
KILLER! What an apt handle for this person. By his reasoning, he wants to see many more deaths so that statistically, when ‘proper investigations’ are finally done, he will then, and only then, even start to consider if the Malaysian Death Camps should be scrapped. It is a very sadistic person who enjoys supporting the system even when there are all those reasons why the Malaysian Death Camps should be shut down.
Enough about a stupid person who cannot see the logic for scrapping the ill-conceived, horribly-managed and totally useless ‘institutionalised’ money-making scams. Kurang Jar will be proud of this person for twisting logic to suit his case.
To have to resort to Malaysian Death Camps for ‘building nationalism’ and ‘integration of races’ means that the 13 years spent at school are all wasted years – the school system is a total failure in building the national spirit and racial integration.
Kerishamuddin has failed miserably. Now, Najis has failed.
Kerishamuddin + Najis = UMNO.
UMNO = FAILURE IN INTEGRATING RACES & DEVELOPING A UNITED CITIZENRY OF MALAYSIANS FOR MALAYSIA.
Ai you…LLT where want to resign??? He know he got no power and he dapat good allowance mah…. You think he so siow want to resign? His 2 anak way past NS so what real experience he has? No fear at all for his children safety mah.
I had 2 children who kena NS and I was worried stiff abt their safety and the water they used to mandi is like river water and most of them had skin problems….luckily both came back ok. I offer my most sincere condolences to Hui Min’s family for her unfortunate demise.
I heard from sources that DAP won’t hentam LLT as long as LLT don’t hentam DAP after he left DAP. So Where you can see any DAP leaders hentam LLT and LLTR don’t hentam DAP pun.
I sincerely hereby called upon LLT to save whatever his maruah and resign from NS to take responsibility for the many deaths in NS and he should propose that NS be scrapped. Please don’t go on defending yourself of what others have been doing wrong as I remember very well that you used to called on then BN Govt leaders to resign to take responsibility whenever there is a mishap or tragedy. So please honour your own words. TQ
What say you LKS, no reason to call on LLT to resign?
LKS,
How about DAP starting a fund to help with the legal expenses of fighting for justice for Too Hui Min’s family? All it needs is the same RM1 contribution formula used by RPK, and by that alone, it will be able to demonstrate how MANY individuals will support a cause for justice that will eventually set the foundation for the call to scrap the Malaysian Death Camps.
If all parents are as afraid of sending their children to these Malaysian Death Camps, then it should not be a difficult act to simply contribute RM1 as an open show of defiance and rejection of this stupid programme. Not unless the general public gets a sense that the MAJORITY of parents are against it and are willing to support the cause through the contribution of RM1, the individual parent will be too scared and intimidated to challenge the system.
RM1 ONLY to SCRAP THE MALAYSIAN DEATH CAMPS.
If people want to get into the car and drive – they can as long as they get a license – the law allows for it. Now, the high death rate of Malaysian on the road is due to morons not following the road laws and the cops who are not able to enforce it. The main issue is that Malaysians have a choice to drive or not and there are laws that tells you want you can and cannot do. The key word is CHOICE
KFC, McD and malaysian junk food – well, again, there are laws that says the food served has to be a certain quality and standard – ie fit for human consumption and in some cases, halal. Again, according to the current law – we have a CHOICE
So, being a moron behind the wheel or just eating junk food and dying early is an individual choice – ie nobody forced you to do so and if you do the wrong thing, well, the Malaysian police will drag your ass to court and if you kill someone by driving like an idiot (your choice to do so), well, we can still make you pay the penalty for killing people doing so.
Now, what if the next day, Malaysia parliament pass a law that say killer had to attend “Lupus death camp” and if killer does not, the law is broke, we can set the police unto you, charge you in court, brand you a criminal and then still send you to “Lupus death camp” for 3 months. During that period – “your ass is mine” and I feed you with KFC and McD that is atleast 7 day old for the next 90 days. I tell you that you have no choice but to eat this or else. You get sick and I tell your love ones that it is nothing and that you are just home-sick/weak, etc, etc. You die the next day and the Malaysian Parliament that wrote the law to say that Killer had to go to my holiday camp now tell your love, never mind, it only Killer that died and we are not going to stop sending people to Lupus Death/holiday camp.
See the difference ? One of them you have no choice and if you think you can driving and eating junk food is the same, think again. If a Malaysian child dies fighting for the country – we should honor them and the parents for bring up such a fine example. If a child dies in a “holiday camp” and the only reason they are there because the Govt said so, that is not right for a needless death. So, Killer, it is disgusting that you feel that a few death is nothing and by scrapping NS immediately inorder to save future death is a bad idea.
Yes I support the call to start a RM1.00 fund for Hui Min’s family. LKS shld start something…dun just issue statements but start something concrete to help those who lost their dearly.
Yes, ‘n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ‘n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind,
The answer is blowin’ in the wind.
******
Where have all the young ones gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
It’s time to start a conscientious disobedience movement, boycott the NS.
Killer Says:
Today at 11: 22.39 (2 hours ago)
Yeah folks let’s close down NS because of the deaths. Why stop there, let’s ban driving because it is killing thousands. And let’s not foget to close down KFC & Mc D, etc because of all these deaths from cholestrol and heart problems.
————————————-
Killer Says:
Today at 13: 24.01 (55 minutes ago)
My point is just because of these deaths on the roads (whatever the causes), we cannot just ban driving. You cannot take such drastic action just because there some morons are driving recklessly.
————————————
Killer,
Are you the same person who posted the above two posts here? or you have been convienced?? or you changed your stand so fast that is faster than the F1 Ferrari!!!
You are just like your master who change their directions according to the wind!!! No wonder Malaysia is in such a poor stage now!!!
There can be more than one option available…besides shutting down the NS programme, the Defense Minister can think about officially honoring those who do not come home after attend the camp (in providing service to nation) as “Hero” or “Heroine” – call them pahlawan (use categories if need be) and pay out compensation$ (especially to their dependants and/or aging parents)
Realizing everyone has to die one day somehow, people are mindful about how honorable the moment is when it finally comes.
Hallo, “Constipation” is certainly not a right term to use.
The complaint focus is more about giving people ability to make choices and be ready to compensate appropriately when you want to remove such ability from your bosses – Rakyat.
Dear LKS,
GREAT IDEA!
YB Kit, start something….not only for Too Hui Min, but for the Rakyat as well.
Start a fund transparent to the public, we have to fend for ourselves if no one would fend for us. You have my support first & foremost!!
Killer should understand the concept of “good idea, but atrocious implementation”. With this BN government, every good idea is badly implemented. We can go on and on about poor implementation, and we can go on and on about incompetence, but the underlying reason for poor implementation always points to – you got it – corruption.
There are bad drivers on the road because they can get away with it. Semua boleh runding. The are substandard construction projects all over Bolehland – semuanya OK (wink, wink). To win a contract, you need to pull cables. Who builds the NS camps ? Who supplies the NS camps ? Who maintains the NS camps ? Were these tendered out openly or were they “negotiated” tenders ?
I for one think that with proper transparency, accountability and integrity, the NS camps can be a terrific unifying force for this country. Looks like we have to change the government for such a scenario to happen.
I dont know why majority of the people would think of compensation first when ever there are scandals & problems caused by the INCOMPETENT BN govn. and their officials in the first place. The money will help in certain way, but it will not bring back our loved ones who died prematurely and have not seen the world yet and live to the full!!! Moreover, if the trend continues, the national coffers will run dry bacause there will be too many cases under the present INCOMPETENT BN govn. !!! We should stop the source of the problem, that is to remove the INCOMPETENT BN govn. and all those INCOMPETENT officials before too late!!!
Time for LLT to step down and be a gentlemen!!!
LLT should not be another beggar Chaiman!!! What for???
I for sure agreed…let LLT step down to take responsibility of all 16 death and it shall not stop there. Does he want to be responsible for the next 17th death and then gave lame excuse again? The program must be stop ASAP regardless of all those parties involved. Whomever LLT report to, in this particular, Najib shall also step down.
What a waste of money. These rakyat money can be channel to school, college and university if we want to further foster and develop the relationship, patriotic etc. Use the existing infras rather than create a new one that will further benefit the cronies.
SCRAP NS! its a waste of time and resources(money).
It fail to achieve its objective miserably!
The only persons or persons who benefit from NS are those crony from UMNO(contractor) who supply the food, clothing, equipments etc. They will get unlimited supply of MONEY from the whole stupid idea called “NS”, and OUR CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER AND DIE FOR BEING FORCED TO BE PART OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE AT THE END OF IT, OUR CHILDREN WILL STILL BE LABEL “BUMIPUTRA” AND “NON-BUMIPUTRA” ACCORDING TO THEIR SKIN-COLOUR AND NAME!!!!!! THIS IS WHAT UMNO CALL “INTERGRATION”!
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT NEED TO GO TO “NS” ARE THE MINISTERS, THIER ASSISTANTS, HEAD OF GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS, THEIR DEPUTIES, UMNO HEADS AND LEADERS…. THEY ARE THE ONE WHO NEED TO KNOW THE MEANING OF “INTERGRATION”.
TODAY IN THE STAR NEWSPAPER, AND INDIAN STUDENT SCORED 10″A1″ BUT STILL UNABLE TO GET “PSD SCHOLORSHIP”… IS THIS WHAT THEY CALL PROUD TO BE A MALAYSIAN OR MALAYSIA BOLEH?
AFTER 51 YEARS OF INDEPENDANT, THIS IS OUR ACHIEVEMENT!!!!!!
The main ideas of having NS were to unite the ppl, learn to love the country, instil disciplne etc.
The main practises are to make money, bully the non-bumis, give jobs to under qualified bumis, etc…
NS itu NajiS !!!
NS= No Standard
killer,
where are you? are you learning?
look, read, and hear what bloggers here have to offer towards your betterment as a person and ultimately your good-judgment & rational thinking behavior.
I apologize for calling you an idiot, but that is the fact to be honest with you. I will continue calling you so unless you respect bloggers here by showing more rational debate minus KFC & McD.
What sort of goodwill the government intended to foster is there for all to see!
Please be more sensible & sensitive. :)
In another scenario, if without LLT, there will be more deaths in NS camps, just let it be!!! so that it will quicken the demise of incompetent BN govn & its cronies & officials etc.!!! So LLT dont try to help BN govn to stay there too long and be a beggar Chairman!!! Please dont make us remember LLT as the Chairman of death camps but as a Chaiman with honour and dignity!!!
Yah, I read the letter by LLT also.
I have to admit, it is bloody lame and he pointed his fingers to “others” also.
What will his masters do I wonder? Will they charged LLT for “sedition”? :)
GREAT DRAMA!!! :) ahhahahahahhaha
So laaaammmme………………..
LLT = Lame LT
In World War II, We had infamous Jewish Death Camps in Germany, In year 2008, we have infamous NajiS Death Camps in Malaysia!!! what a sad case for all Malaysian!!!
LLT is learning very fast from AAB – pointing fingers to others except himself for all the rots and he will continue to be the Chairman as BN govn like to keep people who are having the same wavelength like them!!!
Why do you think I have for years called UMNO the den of thieves?
YB,
I would like you to ask the government whether there are serious about this?
If Yes, a time table must be come out in order to iron out all this problems; or else as suggest by the DAP MP’s, cancel the National Services program immediately.
Please ask the related parties to ‘weak up’. Thank you.
Below is an article to explain what may have occurred. I had spoken to a former trainer with an NS camp in Mersing. He served about 2 years and left to further his career elsewhere. When asked about eh conditions of the camp, he told me that the camp facilities were very much flawed in design and construction. The surau for instance, was built too close to the beach leaving the fine sand always encroaching into the surau. The food was so bad that the trainers and officers themselves leave the camp to eat outside at the restaurants. He stated categorically that the food was not fit for consumption. Perhaps, Citizen Nades or some investigative journalist could do a undercover story on this pathetic NS programme.
Refrigerate Cooked and Leftover Rice
By Pat Kendall, Ph.D., R.D.
Food Science and Human Nutrition Specialist
Colorado State University Extension
September 10, 1997
The Chinese take-out was great, but it’s now 2 a.m. and you’ve got a serious case of vomiting and diarrhea. Could it have been the fried rice? Quite possibly, and the culprit is often a bacteria called Bacillus cereus.
B. cereus comes in different forms. One of these forms is frequently found in uncooked rice. This form is particularly hardy and can survive cooking. If the cooked rice is then held at room temperature, the surviving bacteria may multiply and produce a heat-stable toxin that can survive acidic conditions and brief reheating, such as in stir frying.
In Oriental restaurants, large batches of rice are frequently left to cool at room temperature. Refrigeration is said to make the rice sticky, yielding a less desirable fried rice product, so rice is cooled at room temperature. This cooling, especially if prolonged, creates ideal conditions for the organism to grow and create a toxin.
As an example, in one outbreak involving a catered lunch served to children in two day care centers, cooked rice was cooled to room temperature before being placed in the refrigerator. The next morning it was pan-fried in oil with pieces of cooked chicken and delivered to the day care centers where it was held for one and one-half hours before being served. Within six hours 14 of the 67 children and staff who ate the fried rice became ill with nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. B. cereus was isolated as the culprit. What was disturbing was that neither the day care staff nor the restaurant food handlers were aware that cooked rice was a potentially hazardous food.
Luckily, B. cereus food poisoning usually only lasts six to 24 hours and is seldom associated with long-term complications. Regardless, any form of food poisoning is best avoided.
How does one avoid B. cereus food poisoning? Treat cooked rice as you would a cooked meat product. Refrigerate leftovers promptly in shallow containers to encourage rapid cooling. If you’re cooking rice for use later in fried rice, refrigerate the cooked rice in shallow containers within one hour of preparation. Keep cooked rice refrigerated until ready to stir fry. Once prepared, keep fried rice hot (above 140 degrees Fahrenheit) until ready to serve.
Cooked Rice
Information about how to safely cook and prepare rice.
Many bacteria can be found within rice, and the most common bacteria associated with food poisoning from rice is called bacillus. Bacillus cereus is just one of the many bacillus species which is widespread in the environment and is commonly found in soil. For this reason it is often associated with grains and cereals (such as rice), spices and vegetables.
Unfortunately, unlike a large number of organisms associated with food poisoning, these bacteria are able to withstand the high temperatures associated with cooking and quick frying by forming protective ‘spores’. In this state bacteria are capable of surviving cooking and then become active once the food is cooled. In premises where large quantities of rice are frequently required, the normal practices involved with the production of rice increase the risk of these bacteria surviving the cooking process and being able to multiply in the cooked rice to dangerous levels.
Causes of food poisoning associated with species of bacillus bacteria have often been attributed to the bulk production of rice. Large containers of rice cooked at one time and cooled at room temperature in large containers, often for excessive hours prior to quick frying, lead to the increased likelihood of food poisoning.
This process must be avoided to prevent bacteria being able to multiply to dangerous levels. The following procedures should be adopted:
Purchase and storage of dry rice
Check date codes on purchase and ensure the packaging is intact.
Store unopened bags in a cool, dry and pest proof area.
When bags of rice are opened for use, the contents should be decanted from the opened bags into a suitable, cleansable and pest proof container.
Once opened ensure that the dried product is not allowed to get wet or moist.
Ensure good stock rotation.
Cooking
Rice should be cooked in small quantities as per the manufacturers’ instructions.
At least 75°C must be achieved during cooking.
Service
Rice should be served directly after cooking.
The size of your business may require the production of large quantities of rice. If this is the case and you need to cook larger quantities the safest practice is to maintain the rice at a temperature in excess of 63°C after cooking, until required for sale.
Cooling
Keeping rice hot (over 63°C) prior to service is usually satisfactory for boiled rice.
The quality of the rice may deteriorate after long periods at this temperature and cooling may be required. In addition, if stir-fried rice is required, this product is of better quality when fried from cold.
Cooling must be carried out quickly – always within one and a half hours.
To cool rice quickly remove rice from the hot container, divide the rice into small shallow containers and/or run the rice under running cold water in a clean sink.
On no account must the rice be left at room temperature in excess of one and a half hours.
After cooling the cooled rice must be refrigerated to 8°C or below and suitably covered to prevent contamination.
Rice must not be left at room temperature for excessive periods.
Reheating
If reheating is carried out, it is important to follow the procedures explained above.
Only reheat once.
Ensure the rice is piping hot throughout – a temperature in excess of 75°C should be achieved.
It is important to remember that quick frying does not always kill food poisoning bacteria which may be present, so care must be taken when preparing this product.
Sending our the school kids to NS as if giving gomen license to murder who apparently supported it strongly. When things happen, the gomen just keep mum as usual and act as if nothing had happened.
I will definitely not sending my kids to this stupid program when they reach the age. Charge me if the gomen wish as long as I don’t have to send my kids for the failed program.
Raising and nurture our children is never been an easy task especially to the non-bumi’s who are not supply with gomen tongkat but to stand strong with our feet just to make ends meet. Having our child killed due to some idiots’ negligence is like deep cuts to every parents’ heart which will never heal.
Dear yellowkingdom,
very informative your article,
rest assured, you can be 1001% perfectly SURE that those “people” working the NS camps would not have such “knowledge” to “handle” food, what more to “handle” people, and young children at that!
Agreeable???!
That’s why it is in the state it is in now.
I feel very sorry for the deceased family members and worst of all the parents. Being a parent myself I strongly oppose the NS program and I see no benefit from the children’s as many of my friends children who has attended NS come home with a notorious character after picking up from the NS group. I am very lucky my son was not selected but we have to speak out for others too.
I sincerly hope the MP will fight till the goverment drop the program and I am very sure the Minister who get involved in enforcing the NS program have earn enough.
Mr. Lee Lam Thye who was once a hero when he was in DAP please wake up and do not let the UMNO fellows chain your nose.
Mr. Lee stand up straight and act fast before more lifes are taken in exchange for certain Mininsters greet and corruption.
L – A – M – E (lame) definition by merriam online webster:
Main Entry:
1lame Listen to the pronunciation of 1lame
Pronunciation:
\?l?m\
1 a: having a body part and especially a limb so disabled as to impair freedom of movement b: marked by stiffness and soreness
2: lacking needful or desirable substance : weak, ineffectual
3 slang : not being in the know : square
4 a: inferior b: contemptible, nasty
— lame·ly adverb
— lame·ness noun
keywords:
1. nasty
2. contemptible
3. “not in the know” (this is a good one!) :)
4. weak
5. ineffectual (precisely!!)
6. lacking substance (so very true!!)
7. what a lame duck! (my version!)
Just because the Umnoputras want to make millions of profit frm NS Projects, they don’t mind murdering innocent children. Next year my daughter will be finishing SPM. I’m praying she won’t be chosen, as we can’t put her life at risk too. Pls scrap the NS project.
Folks
I am aware that there is a difference between driving / eating junk food and going to NS Camps, that is in the aspect of choice. But does is really matter ?
You are saying that if our roads are dangerous you have a choice of not driving and take care of our safety by other alternative means of transportation.
But this is an idiotic argument. How many Malaysians would resort to this choice of not driving? Instead we would ask the government to take the approporiate steps to make the roads safe for driving again.
Your argument of shutting down NS camps because of the deaths is akin to asking the government to ban driving because of the bloodbaths on our roads.
I am also find it hard to phantom the typical Malaysian parent’s mindset of not allowing their kids to attend NS camp for some of the lamest reasons. They don’t understand how the camps are being run or the effectiveness of the NS program. They don’t talk to the kids who had attended the course. They keep harping for Bangsa Malaysia but yet do not wish to contribute to that concept by alowing their kids attend the NS camp.
My suggestions are simple.
1. Review the effectiveness of the program. This has to be done by an independent panel. I wouldn’t want any politicians in at all.
If the review says it has NOT been beneficial, then I am all for scapping it. But if the review says it has been useful, then go to Step 2.
2. Review the current system to find out the weaknesses and make a comprehensive recommendations on how to overcome them.
I am not a medical doctor but even using the newspaper reports it is not difficult to make some educated guess on the cause of death.
I don’t think yellowkingdom’s reasons as the possible cause. The guys who are running the camp are ex-service people (police and army) and they have more than enough experience in managing food supply for a large group of people.
I don’t think food as the source of the problem. If that is the cause then we would have the entire camp in the hospital. Just like what happens in our school / hostel canteens.
Many of these problems are seems to be long-standing ones and not something that would have developed within a short period of time at a NS camp. As such, it would be easy to check a student’s medical history.
Outbound school is not a good comparison with NS as the duration of training is very short (a few days to 2 or 3 wks max).
I think the NS folks should understand the nature of a typical urban / semi-urban Malaysian kid today. They are not the tough kids of yester years but pampered and spoiled by their parents. They live in aircond environment, dislike physical exercises or even venturing out under hot sun. They have very low tolerance for physical and mental stress. Many of these kids face emotional issues such as the loss of privacy and living in spartan conditions. Some of them have been so pampered that they cannot live without the daily dose of TV and other forms of entertaintment.
However much I hate to say this, NS authorities should review the condition of the camp to make it more comfortable and also ensure counsellors are available to detect and provide support for those kids unable to handle the change in their environment.
Making the kids take shower in cold water, exposing them to the jungle, hard physical exercises and marches are not suitable for kids today.
Although NS trainers have experience in handling trainees in a camp environment, handling kids in such a large group is a different kettle of fish. These kids are far fragile and less developed than adults. Programs in other countries (if they have similar programs or even summer camps) should be studied.
Finally the length of the training should be reviewed too. I think it can be cut short by sticking to core objectives of national integration.
We are saddened with the newly reported death. How would the parents take it? Uncle KIT must bring it to the attention of the ‘stupid’ BN cabinet in the parliament.
They are the arrogant fools who upset the racial harmony in Malaysia, then they try to salvage (so called) it by having the NS instead of ‘ketuanan rakyat’ policies, with ‘lobang to currupt’ in mind (everyone knows who are the one who got all the contract for the NS camps, facilities, etc..). They placed a good HEAD (Tan Sri) but no competent soldiers to run the camp efficiently. That’s why many unfortunate incidents happened. Many things are actually ta’boleh on this boleh-land!
It is best to stop the NS especially during this hard time. Promote racial-harmony through fair deeds by the government (not only say but must been ‘seen’ to be fair), through fair treatments to all schools and students irrespective of race and religion; the over-zealous ‘moral police’ in many schools are turning non-muslim students away and building up resentment towards them. How could this promote racial harmony?
the wage earners complains about to much crime so the MP says lets have better policing….ah..one smart one says let built more police stations….
The wage earner complains to much leapk and ramshit in the city and towns, the MP say …ah no discipline from home , all loyal citizens busy building nation no time for kids…..lets give them discipline….ah yes one MP says let make like army camp and be discipline
the wage earner says rice too expensive, the MP says ah this one is world problem lets buy more now before we starve our loyal subjek.
the wage earner says toolll too expensive, ah the MP says this one is your fault you should take the bus if you cannot afford, you must live within your means be prudent , please.
Our NS is once more a laughing stock at the tax-payers expense but somebody is getting fatter by the day with the increasing supplies of apparels, boots, catering, toiletries, logistics, etc (reminds me a bit like MAS Catering). How much tax-$ has been misused so far?
We must also ask ourselves: In what way will NS contribute to the nation? Be realistic, at this day & age. I think we were also not well prepared for NS.
Social Service (SS) would be much better put to use as human-resource than NS. Not everyone was born to be Rambo. Confine NS to school drop-outs, juvenile criminals (example)…rather than “encouraging” them to joining police/army (why do you think our police standards are so low). Some even end up as mat-rempits or snatch-thieves. If NS is preached to make every Malaysian a better person, why not take in these people (I don’t mean to categorise insentitively). Statistically, most drop-outs come from poor & broken families. I can’t believe no MP thought of that.
The NS will also better prepare them to continue to join the security forces – better trained & educated. It’s well known that even the US Marine Corps have a fleet of engineers, etc. Most having university degrees even! No need to mention the British Brigades or even the S’pore Elite Commandoes.
I say stop the NS for now – save the nation hundred of millions for a start – surely there are more important issues to channel the money saved (& I don’t mean sending another idiot to space). At least use the money to buy more food for the poor, more so now.
PLEASE review, revise & improve the NS before continuing further. Who will die next? This is what I can suggest to Tan Sri LLT, Chairman of NS. I would have thought a man of his stature & respect would have thought of this.
It is now not only the death of an NS trainee…but also many other cases of rape, bully, etc in the past. I am sure there are many more unknown cases that are not reported – perhaps less critical than death & rape.
National integration begins in school, as early as pre-school. Not at 16 & above!
Also since when teaching the youth to be better citizens a job of the government. This is the job of every parent the day they were born & at home, not at death-camps.
Dear YAB LKS
I support the idea of DAP or PR setting up a Fund for NS Trainee Calamities to help support those who suffered the loss of loved ones. It may not bring back the loved one but it will help them to cover certain unexpected costs arising from the death, or even for medical bills, etc. Death is by far the most crucial calamity of the NS.
I am sure RPK will challenge everyone to beat the record of the Bloggers Fund. My RM 1 is ready. Just have to start it. If all EPF contributors make RM 1 only, we could have potentially 10 Million collected in 1 day. That’s true people power.
The ball is in your court to get the fund raising going.
Dear dear killer,
I honestly think you should refrain from making any more debate here or pose your suggestions. In fact, I just now realized that you have been missing the point the whole while you are here in this blog and in your life here Malaysia. You are an idiot and an ignorant one at that. Why? Because:
1. You have missed the whole point of what had saddened so many people in this blog & the whole country over.
2. You have ignored the many facts laid bare in front of you that this is indeed a ‘corrupt country’, why do you reckon that PM Abdullah first slogan was eliminating ‘Rasuah’ when he first took mandate to lead? :)
3. You are arguing not based on facts, results, and merit but based on your presumed good character, qualification, experiences and the trustworthiness of “Retired captains & generals”. Do generals cook, may I ask??!
4. Don’t say something that is in direct contradiction with what you preach. As youngsters of this generation are a “pampered” lot (according to you), then certainly a different device or system should be implemented to maximize their potential. An idiot layman like you knew, the government should do better. What do you expect of others kids? Train them like Mike Tyson?
5. And, you should know that even “retired captains & generals” are experienced, how sure are you sure canteen staffs & workers are too? There is a government directives that say food handlers are required to attend a Food Handling Course and at the end of it get Certified. Basically it covers food hygiene. Can they produce the cert? What about typhoid injection card? Can they produce that either? Those canteens are tendered to family members and staffs are hired to work it, so you see, generals don’t cook, idiot!
6. Nobody here said or suggest driving be banned because of too many fatalities, ONLY that Kopi-O license should NOT retain as a common PRACTICE in Malaysia to lower fatalities, conflicts and improve COMPETENCY.
7. I believe also your father and elders came from the Outward Bound School era, even though they may not attend. Ask your elders is it 2 weeks better than 3months now IN OUR CURRENT SITUATION??! We are talking about precious human lives here, moron.
8. And when you say that those “experienced” generals were used to serve food to a large group of people, well, I think you should think before you blurt, these are 18 year olds we are talking about here and they are no soldiers! My dad was a soldier, believe me, eating in a kenduri is not the norm.
9. To review the effectiveness of the system you say? When a girl was raped by a camp warden and another was poisoned and died, what sort of review are you talking about?! Very plainly, we lack proper qualified human resource at this moment in time to conduct this NS thingy! How would you like it, if your daughter is a victim??!
10. Lastly (relief for you), I attended SK Rendah and Menengah, I can speak in a Malay slang, have a Malay abang angkat in Machang, numerous funny Indian friends and of course my own yellow type of friends. Let me tell you, killer, I don’t need NS to tell me the difference of patriotic & unpatriotic, just & unjust, corrupt & incorrupt, effective & ineffective, united & disunited and of course the difference between an idiot and a smart guy.
Please don’t harassed and/or belittle the intelligence of bloggers here, thank you.
PL is eating Rakyat money, but in return, the M’sian who sent their childrens to these NS camp are given lousy & cheapskate attention & training. The main sufferer is the parents & the kids who underwent the agony.
The govt. are doing a weak childrens cleansing, so that all Malaysian children will be stronger, those weak children will be punished with death at the NS camp.
Good Job Najis, see how many life died today for ur little toy program.
And PL will be laughing all the way to the bank, with all the benefits claimed from the Malaysian pockets or Petronas.
Just to say kingkenny post on killer, well said, SYABAS!
How many countries got an NS program, without a medical check up, & so kelam kabut as ours?
Many people thinks getting their children into NS can make tough people and good citizens, I think so not always so.
Not just because of the deaths caused by inexperiece people, the world ‘s is changing and changing fast. If the phrase survivalof the fittest impressed you then you have totally disregard your kid’s interest which is just 17 and many of them are matured in thought already., todays kids are learning ways faster than their parents because of mass media and the various mediums of info format.
Some of our MP’s are a reactive bunch of idiots, always responding to cries of the public and only through happenings created or dramatised by some local reporters.
The NS is not good for the youngsters, you want them to be great people just built more schools, filled them up with good education system, employ experts not wanabes and wishful talking idiots.
Let get REAL for once, stop the experimentation it is leading no where, only short term gain by some people.
If you buggers think , avoiding and accepting cancellation is soft then you are not rational in thought but sheer stubborness begets, the parents who think so is good for them but may not be good for the kid .then the old men go h\join the territorial army and earn a few strip yourself first…iby the way it call lead by example.
For all i know even soldiers themselves yearn their child be not in the arm forces.
i truly agree with the writer. i will not send my children to NS. that’s for sure. I would rather waste the rm2000 fine and send them to outward bound or something else.
are the kids and ooperators ready ? i really don’t think they are. ran by a bunch of Cronies LC
cheng on soo,
thank you…pai seh laaa :)
“built more schools” Any Malaysian wanted to become a teacher? or any childrens when they grow up as M’sian wanted to be a teacher?
teach all the craps which onli in Malaysia can be used. And they assign u to all the Kampong Kampong separated from ur family.
With all these increases in food prices, fuel prices, do u think become teacher is still relevant? They will soon import all the 3rd world teach which is much cheaper. In Malaysia most teach have share in tuition center, some even open tuition center secretly this is forbidden or prohibited.
KingKenny :
I am not about to descend to your level by resorting to name-calling.
I think you missing the point that if these people are corrupted and as inefficient as you had claimed, then we would be seeing people dying by dozens not only in NS camps but also in the army and police training camps.
Anyway you are the one who had stated “THEY ARE DRINKING BLOOD AND EATING HUMAN FLESH….RARE!!!!!!!!!”…..As such I will conclude my arguments as it is impossible to debate with an irrational person.
If the National Service is so great and too be proud (and safe), let have a check on Ministers, Menteri Besar and Senior Government Officers, how many of them (these Jokers) are sending their childrens to the National Service?
Have any of us heard their childrens are attending the National Service?
P/S: They not even sending their childrens to local primary schools, secondary schools and universities? A good example is our “honourable” Education Minister who sending his childrens to Australia for study!!! A very well “responsible” Education Minister!!!
“Just look at the comments made by yourself and lakilompat, both of you sound as though you guys urgently require some psychiatric help.” – killer
===================================================
Conclude your argument?….well, you don’t have to, you have already lost your basis.
Soldiers and police force in this country are served better and more humane meals in their own respective institutions. Moreover they are not bound to have the meals served to them.
Do the NS trainees have any choice other than the meals served to them?
You are so farcical & hypocrite. :)
And by the way killer, a corrupt person is actually drinking blood and eating rare flesh!
I still believed in it :)
killer,
it also seem to me that your “high” philosophy is to see dozens of death before some thing could be considered grave.
I wonder how it had gone to that state? Irrational maybe? :)
kingkenny
Yes, you have won and that your arguments are logical, rational and simply the best solution for the NS problem. In fact it is a work of a genius par Einstein’s “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies”….!! Bravo….I am going to nominate you for the Nobel Physics Prize this year.
# Killer Says:
“I am aware that there is a difference between driving / eating junk food and going to NS Camps, that is in the aspect of choice. But does is really matter ?”
Lupus:
Yes, where there is a life to consider and where it is law to send them off with a very good chance of dying. The track record of NS death is not very good since 2003. We are not talking about people saying “I want to go to NS”. It about people being FORCED to go and losing their lives. You have shown in this statement that these young lives mean very little to you. These parents, esp the non-bumi ones have put so much hope, effort and love into those kids only to be cut short by a holiday camp. I WANT YOU TO LOOK THESE PARENTS IN THEIR EYES AND TELL THEM THAT THEIR CHILD HAVE LOST THEIR LIFE FOR A GOOD CAUSE. NS is a cause that should NEVER CAUSE LIVES.
# Killer Says:
“You are saying that if our roads are dangerous you have a choice of not driving and take care of our safety by other alternative means of transportation.
But this is an idiotic argument. How many Malaysians would resort to this choice of not driving? Instead we would ask the government to take the approporiate steps to make the roads safe for driving again.”
Lupus:
Why idiotic ? You said it – Malaysian DO HAVE A CHOICE of not driving – you have missed the point entirely – the laws allows Malaysian the CHOICE to drive or not to drive. Let’s make it simple for you to understand
Driving laws of Malaysia = you can drive or not drive, as long as you have a license.
NS laws of Malaysia = your name is called up, you must report of training.
As to asking the Govt to take appropriate steps of making the road safer? A easy task for anyone here – Is there a requirement for cars in Malaysia legislation, act, laws that tell the car industry in Malaysia the min safety requirement ? How about you try and get the Malaysian Govt to adopt just one requirement to make our cars alittle safer – EURO NCAP 64km/hr frontal impact requirements. It only one of the hundreds of legal safety requirements that overseas cars are subjected to. It should not be hard to bring it into law as BN can just rip off the laws. Just one. You try it and get it done before the next GE.
# Killer Says:
“Your argument of shutting down NS camps because of the deaths is akin to asking the government to ban driving because of the bloodbaths on our roads.”
Lupus:
Again let me make it simple for you to understand
NS Camp = I tell you that you have to go and if you don’t go, I will arrest you and drag your a** to camp
Driving bloodbath = Idiots choose to drive like idiots, THEY CHOOSE TO DRIVE LIKE MORONS and kill people and contribute to the bloodbath.
# Killer Says:
‘I am also find it hard to phantom the typical Malaysian parent’s mindset of not allowing their kids to attend NS camp for some of the lamest reasons. They don’t understand how the camps are being run or the effectiveness of the NS program. They don’t talk to the kids who had attended the course. They keep harping for Bangsa Malaysia but yet do not wish to contribute to that concept by alowing their kids attend the NS camp.”
Lupus:
Again, you have missed the point entirely. Read the statements posted by LKS. ANOTHER DEATH – while you can argue that no typical Malaysian parent’s would not support the idea of NS – I find it HARD TO PHANTOM ANY TYPICAL MALAYSIAN PARENT MINDSET TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO DIE IN SOME NS CAMP FOR SOME OF THE LAMEST RESONS. Bangsa Malaysia goals should not cause such a young life to be cut short.
# Killer Says:
“My suggestions are simple.
1. Review the effectiveness of the program. This has to be done by an independent panel. I wouldn’t want any politicians in at all.
If the review says it has NOT been beneficial, then I am all for scapping it. But if the review says it has been useful, then go to Step 2.
2. Review the current system to find out the weaknesses and make a comprehensive recommendations on how to overcome them.”
Lupus:
It has already failed the effectiveness program – people are dying since 2003 – question is how many more must die ? AND NO POLICITIAN CHILD OR GRANDCHILD have ATTENDED NS CAMP. You don’t need a review to tell you that X amount of death is NOT a benefit to us.
Furthermore – it shows how little you understand about NS camps. You maybe a product of a NS camp – who knows ? I have inside knowledge of oversea military initial courses aka boot camps (and not in ASEAN countries and yes I served in the military as well), most of these young Malaysian should be able to fair very well. The only different I see is since 2003, the death rate is one of the highest and this is usually an indication of something is very wrong. A death of a boot camp usually follows an inquiry (usually finding are out within the year) and rare to see anyone not held accountable. Reviews are automatically done in the event of any death and the programs or parts of it, suspended until the investigation is reported. Staff are trained before they become instructor in these camps – not any tom, dick or harry who has a rank. These are qualified, purpose trained military instructor to handle young men and women and to ensure safety of these young people. Afterall, dead people have not benefit. I like to see what sort of training these NS instructor have. Have they had a background check too ? Do they have a criminal background eg. are they sex offenders ?
So, you tell me and in fact, I dare you to publish any full inquiry finding on this blog of one NS death that identify the cause.
Killer:
Stop defending the indefensible. Until and unless your UMNO masters demonstrate a level of competence and transparency, the NS programme should be suspended. One death is simply one too many.
The usual UMNO way of doing “bisnes” has to stop – especially when it involves innocent kids.
KILLER just doesn’t get it!
It is between forced and voluntary, where the Malaysian Death Camps are forced upon the rakyat. Once selected, you go or you get charged.
It is about about having been given enough time to get it right! Even if there were teething problems that led to deaths at the start of the program, the authorities should have gotten it RIGHT to prevent further deaths! KILLER should know the threshhold allowable before the entire system needs to be reviewed – ONE SINGLE DEATH, that all it should take for the rakayt to demand a comprehensive review and full investigations! NOT 16 deaths, NOT 20 DEATHS. JUST ONE!
It is about objectives and a very publicised KEY OBJECTIVE was nation-building and integration of the races! The Malaysian Death Camps is a STUPID IDEA to foster better relationships between the races. If the EDUCATION SYSTYEM and SCHOOLS which hold our children captive for up to 13 years cannot do this when these children of all races spend an average minimum of 5 hours interacting in the classroom, in the canteen, on the field, in the gym and on the game courts, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN 3 FREAKING MONTHS DO WHAT 13 YEARS of moral studies, singing the NegaraKu every Monday morning, studying Melayu or in Melayu, sharing meals, eating together, playing and competing together, helping each other in the most important challenges in their young student lives – EXAMS!?
It is about Malaysia Boleh! Everything Can! Gaya ada, isi tak ada! Form is ‘impressive’, the substance is rotten!From all these deaths, we have concluded that the very heart of the program is ROTTEN! How can you talk about nation-building and integrating the races (all very noble) but at the same time the people responsible for this entire program ARE themselves ROTTEN! A system is a system! It can’t be wrought with such problems unless the people who conceived it, those who are overseeing it, those who are managing it, those who are implementing it and those who are MAKING MONEY out of it are both INCOMPETENT and ROTTEN!
Like it was posted earlier, a private, professionally run outfit would have been crucified, quartered and thrown to the wolves to devour had just ONE DEATH OCCURED! Just one and there would have been a thorough investigation TO PREVENT A REPEAT! But with our Malaysian Death Camps there have been 16 deaths, some even say here 21 deaths, OVER 5 years! When will this STOP!
KILLER, how much are you being paid to play your role as an agent of change on this blog? We all know there are people who ARE PAID write to blogs to influence opinion, discussion threads and debates. I don’t mind if you want to give a balanced view BUT when you push through your arguements which do not evenly address the issues, then you are just being plain and simple yet another BN/UMNO running dog doing the bidding of his master.
LKS,
Let’s start this so that the parents CAN take affirmative action to show they want the camps shut down NOW!
CONTRIBUTE RM1 TO SCRAP THE MALAYSIAN DEATHS CAMPS!
Parents entrust their sons/daughters to the government (ministry of defence) for NS training and would expect the safety aspect of the NS training to be adhered to at all time by the trainers and officers in charge of NS training.
Hence, all the parents want from the govt is the accountability of the training death: assurance that the death cases during NS training are properly investigated (preferably by independent committee of inquiry) to determine the cause of death and also to enable us to take all the necessary measures so that what can be prevented will not happen again.
If there is negligence found by those in charge of these trainees and those who do not adhere or comply to the operating procedure during NS training, then Attorney-General’s Chambers should proceed with criminal charges against these officers.
National Service call to parents
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/national-service-call-to-parents/
That Lee Lam Thye fella and ‘the system’
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/that-lee-lam-thye-fella-and-%e2%80%98the-system%e2%80%99/#comments
Singapore “NSmen death” search results from MinDef website:-
http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/portlets/Search/iterate.do;NSPJSESSIONID=2l4pLrGVbgfZ82h75HHn9XQTSvvb2lXrWfkJDXRPZQV5y6zcvNbJ!-2130695426?pageNumber=2&pageSize=50&startIndex=0
“On the issue of national service, Najib said the Government would continue with the programme as it promotes unity although there were accidents and fatal cases.” – Star Online today, 15 May 2008.
He is just joking.
/// However on second thought the idea of training so many people to handle weapons must have persuaded them to back track and thus the current NS program has turned into an Outward Bound school program!! ///
AhPek, I think what freaked them out is the idea of training so many non-Malays to handle weapons…
/// Outward Bound School in Aberdovey England where the first outward bound school is borned…///
I think the first OBS was in Gordonstoun in Scotland in the 1930s. BTW, Aberdovey is in Wales, not England…
;)
Ladies/Gentlemen,
While we remember those who died as a result of NajiS Death Camps, we should not forget about those who have broken legs and hands and other parts of their bodies which they will suffer for life (these will not be reported compared to death of trainees) which wont be the same again after the camp!!! Read my lips, Ms Too Hui Min will not be the last!!! I wonder how those people who are responsible can sleep in peace while there’s a time bomb undefused!!! May be these ex-service men had seen the worst i.e. soldiers killed while under training or during warfare with communist etc. !!!
Killer Says:
Today at 01: 05.29 (9 hours ago)
kingkenny
Yes, you have won and that your arguments are logical, rational and simply the best solution for the NS problem. In fact it is a work of a genius par Einstein’s “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies”….!! Bravo….I am going to nominate you for the Nobel Physics Prize this year.
—————————–
Killer,
Dont be emotional here and be sarcastic!!! dont just say it with your mouth but with your heart and you will learn.
Dear lupus,
WELL SAID!
If our country has the RIGHT HUMAN RESOURCE AND/OR TECHNICAL EXPERTISE, NS would be GREAT!
No arguments with you!
One death after another
Well NS had any good media attention
When it started, it had cases of brawling, raping and what not.
Now that its going on “smoothly”, human lifes are at stake.
If the purpose of NS is to instill unity among the younger generations, than the DPM got the whole concept wrongly.
NS creates an even highly tensed competitive environment between the kids and that could lead to even utterly battered misunderstandings.
Scrap the NS immediately and instill something at school level that could allow inborn of unity. Create co-cu that are compulsory with rules and regulation that will make sure they attend it.
NS is definitely not the answer to create understanding or unity among the youngsters.
Killer,
Time for reflection, don’t you think?
There’s a saying in Chinese – ‘fall down and yet grab a handful of sand in the act.’ That’s what your concluding statement is. You have lsot by your own admission but do not know how to lose gracefully – just like BN, UMNO, MCA, MIC and Gerakan. And you do not have the intellectual ability or credentials to nominate your cat for the Nobel Prize. You haven’t measured up at all with your arguements in this thread, let alone challenge the cyrstal-clear logic posted by LUPUS in refuting each and every one of your emotionally-laden, ass-kissing statements.
Also time to change your handle – you are KILLING yourself with your kind of twisted thinking, logic and values.
Go comment on the Ali Rasuah, Toyol and Mud Tahi blogs…they love ass-kissing.
Dear killer,
I sincerely and honestly hope that your good intentions and philosophy here doesn’t get too PERSONAL against (VS) the current serious situation of the Rakyat and young citizens of Malaysia are facing.
I thank you if I must if you are going to vote me for a Nobel prize, but to be frank, we are the losers in this current predicament, while the winners are those corrupted irresponsible profit motivated people running this and running that program in this country out of taxpayers money; i.e. your money and mine and those parents whose children has died!
>>KILLER, how much are you being paid to play your role as an agent of change on this blog? We all know there are people who ARE PAID write to blogs to influence opinion, discussion threads and debates.<< – – -kerishamuddinitis
===================================================
He is being paid enough to actually ignore all the 16 deaths, not counting road fatalities, KFC, McD & etc.
killer,
if you are in USA, and it happens that one of these KFC & McD guys came upon your comments, well, you’ll have a lot of explaining to do, man. Think before you blurt.
Sue …Sue …Sue For all the Dead Compensation from UMNO-BN Government. This is a civil case of Negligience causing Death…..somebody should be charged for Man-slaughter at least.
Otherwise……we defy the Government Via BOYCOTT of NS…….see if they have Jail for tens of thousand of children…..In unison all over Malaysia…..THIS is TSUNAMI 3 from the Teenagers of Malaysia of all race…….A warning to UMNO-BN and lets organise a March to Agong Palace for Royal Commission on the Deaths of these Kids and the procedure and who is ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE….!!
Hallo Lee Lam Tsai what say you now. Want to show us you crying again ah!
Stop the NS programme!
http://stopNSProgramme.blogspot.com
Parents and other concerned Malaysians have been expressing their anger and misgivings in the past couple of years about the NS programme after the numerous unnecessary deaths occurring related to participation in the programme. All these concerns have fallen on deaf ears. Excuses after excuses were given. Inquiries after inquiries were promised. But have we heard anything about the outcome of these inquiries? Have we seen any improvements in the management of the NS camps?
No! Instead we have now received the sad news that another NS trainee, Too Hui Min has died on 7 May 2008. According to the camp staff, this occurred after she complained of constipation for three days. Are we to believe the camp staff?
Najib said the number of deaths was a small percentage compared to the total trainees who had benefited from the programme. The NS Training Department director-general was quoted as saying that the training programme will not be scrapped “just because of one or two deaths”. These are callous comments similar to what the former Health Minister said last year that reports on the deaths of the trainees have been overblown and “the rate of death (of the trainees) is in fact much smaller than that in the general population”!
These comments are certainly no consolation to the parents who have lost their love ones because of the NS programme.
We have said it again and again. Not a single death due to the NS programme should be tolerated! The Defense Minister and the director-general of the NS Training Department and all others responsible for the implementation of the NS programme, regardless of their positions, must be held morally and even legally accountable for their negligence for these deaths.
They are negligent for not heeding the calls for review and suspension of the NS programmes after the NS-related deaths occurring in the past. They are negligent for not publicly releasing the inquiries they have made which should have exposed any shortcomings in the management of the camps. They are negligent for not taking appropriate actions and making improvements in the programme which can ensure that another death would not occur again.
Mind you, according to the notice for an emergency motion in Parliament tabled by an MP Fong Po Kuan, this is the third death in less than 2 months (the motion was rejected on the ground that it was not urgent!). In April, Afiz Zuhairi Ahmat Rozali a trainee in the Sentosa Chenderiang Camp died after having a fever.
Another trainee, Balammah died on 21 March 2008. She complained of severe chest pains after she returned from NS training on March 11. Family members suspect that she must have suffered internal injuries during the NS training which eventually led to her death.
We have had enough. No more excuses. No more inquiries. The ill-conceived NS programme must be scrapped immediately!
This time if the government do no heed the cries of anguished parents, all parents should boycott the NS programme and refuse to send the loved ones to NS programme.
Guys
I had to admit that I am completely and utterly underwhelmed by the volume and the quality of the replies. It is not so often that we see so much is written with so little logical reasonings, data and facts to back it all up.
Sometimes I often wonder if I am at the blog operated by the People’s Action Party of Singapore or one managed by the Democratic Action Party of Malaysia. The intolerance and violent reactions to dissenting views and cyber intimidations makes me wonder if this is the kind of Malaysia we will get when DAP gets to rule our country one day.
Coming back to the issue at hand, I have nothing new to add. The numerous posts that followed my suggestions either completely failed to negate the points raised or opted to attack me personally.
Wel, just in case you have missed my earlier post, I shall repeat the key arguments that I put forward.
1. We cannot act drastically like banning NS as it is akin to banning driving due to the numerous road accidents. Saying that we have the freedom of choice in driving is a lame excuse and argument. While I don’t deny that in NS camp we don’t have a choice, the question of choice matters little. As far as I know, no Malaysian whom I know of has stopped driving because of these acciddents. Even if the accidents increase dramatically, I will bet that none of you here will call for a ban on driving even though you have the choice of not driving. What you would do is to blame the govt for the accidents and tell them to fix the problem.
2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly caused by carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?
3. Most of the cases looks like stemming from long term medical conditions which could have happened any where.
4. Statistically these cases are not significant as compared to the general population as pointed out by Najib.
In fact there are far more youths die of motobike accidents in a year than in NS camps. Shall we ban youths from riding motorbikes too ?
Ultimately, I believe the real issue is not these deaths but it is the kiasi / kiasu attitude of Malaysians. While their mouth speaks of Bangsa Malaysia, but their actions often are in pure self interest in the worst kiasu manner.
Correction.
2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly could be caused by human carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?
# Killer Says:
Today at 22: 17.28 (16 minutes ago)
Correction.
2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly could be caused by human carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?
=================================================
Dear dear killer,
what’s the difference between negligence and human carelessness?! And “of course” death resulting from “poor management” ?!
I can kill “the bird” with 1 stone here (hehe) :)
Stop your nonsense killer, as I can see from numerous posts in this blog and as bloggers had pointed to you, you missed the point time and again!!! Please allow me to put it in a few sentence for you, specially for you and your level of competence:
“WE DO NOT WANT DEATHS RESULTING FROM THE GREEDINESS OF SOME PEOPLE BEHIND THE NS PROGRAM” &
“THE NS WAS STARTED FIRST FOR PROFIT BEFORE NATIONAL UNITY” &
“IF WE FOCUS ON FIXING THOSE PROBLEMS, OKAY, IS 3 DEATHS ENOUGH FOR YOU TO FIX IT BEFORE IT BECAME 16” (How long must it take killer, we can send spaceman to space with millions & billions, but we can’t STOP the childrens’ death with our resource???! Don’t you think there is something so wrong??!)
YCES!!!! What a lame idiot!!
That is why I said I still believed that people who are corrupt are eating rare human flesh & drinking blood and I will not regret a single word of it !! :)
killer,
AND THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF IS BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT TO BE KNOWN!
You eat bananas all this while? Whose bananas was it? Taste nice? :)
killer,
from now on, I shall call you the “banana killer” because you A.J.A.P.O.S!
Looks like the heatseeking missiles on the Sukhoi jets are locked on DPM. Guess there has been too much pressure on PM lately, so, MSM should divert a bit & give more coverage to DPM lah.
If ruling gov does not want NS to be stopped, then PR should have a campaign to get as many signatures possible to bring this matter to our Agong’s attention. Go to the malls, markets, schools,…where there will be parents from all walks of life – the Rakyat. This will show whether the ears exist in BN…our PM says he has big ears…but what’s the use if it’s shut all the time. Maybe someone stuffed it with 2 submarines. If the gov not listening to the Rakyat, the last resort is our Agong. To start with, run a poll to gauge the Rakyat sentiments on this issue.
Stop the NS (Najib Service), save the money on food-programme or other more meanigful social service for the poor, disabled, orphans, homeless, lost-souls, etc. We will have to look into illegals as a humanity issue.
If the NS were to continue, the gov or relevant ministry MUST guarantee the health & safety of the trainees. At the moment, whenever there is a calamity, it’s always the trainee’s fault. Getting rape is also the trainee’s fault it seems. Getting food poisoning is also trainee’s fault. Dying of exhaustion is also trainee’s fault. Getting bullied is also trainee’s fault.
This NS death must be the last…..where is the opposition in this?????? Dont tell me 82 seats is stil not enough for you guys to do something about this????????
Guys
I had to admit that I am completely and utterly underwhelmed by the volume and the quality of the replies. It is not so often that we see so much is written with so little logical reasonings, data and facts to back it all up.
Sometimes I often wonder if I am at the blog operated by the People’s Action Party of Singapore or one managed by the Democratic Action Party of Malaysia. The intolerance and violent reactions to dissenting views and cyber intimidations makes me wonder if this is the kind of Malaysia we will get when DAP gets to rule our country one day.
Coming back to the issue at hand, I have nothing new to add. The numerous posts that followed my suggestions either completely failed to negate the points raised or opted to attack me personally.
Wel, just in case you have missed my earlier post, I shall repeat the key arguments that I put forward.
1. We cannot act drastically like banning NS as it is akin to banning driving due to the numerous road accidents. Saying that we have the freedom of choice in driving is a lame excuse and argument. While I don’t deny that in NS camp we don’t have a choice, the question of choice matters little. As far as I know, no Malaysian whom I know of has stopped driving because of these acciddents. Even if the accidents increase dramatically, I will bet that none of you here will call for a ban on driving even though you have the choice of not driving. What you would do is to blame the govt for the accidents and tell them to fix the problem.
2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly could be caused by human carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?
3. Most of the cases looks like stemming from long term medical conditions which could have happened any where.
4. Statistically these cases are not significant as compared to the general population as pointed out by Najib.
In fact there are far more youths die of motobike accidents in a year than in NS camps. Shall we ban youths from riding motorbikes too ?
Ultimately, I believe the real issue is not these deaths but it is the kiasi / kiasu attitude of Malaysians. While their mouth speaks of Bangsa Malaysia, but their actions often are in pure self interest in the worst kiasu manner.
YB, can we start a referendum to scrap the NS?
Is there a way to do it? Is it legal?
Anyone start a poll? I just started one on my blog for a simple YES or NO. If you are a parent, given a choice, will you send your kid to NS?
Take the poll at my blog.
Shiok Guy
The NS should be scrapped!
It is inhumane, poorly managed, a unity camp initiated by the government should be of a high standard.
Not a place for “mysterious illness”, “unknown fever”, sakit perut – no problem, makan painkiller, “eaten animal faeces”, “rape” by camp warden, “peeping”, capital punishment or training regime!
Don’t you think Malaysia has the highest unknown illness in the world? by accounts of numerous media reports?
Scrap NS!
[IMG]http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff105/zainuddinmaidin/satar/plkntahi.jpg[/IMG]
Here’s a good reading:
Najib, you really can’t be bothered, can you?
TW | May 16, 08 4:39pm
I refer to the Malaysiakini report Najib lashes out at accusations of ‘the Mongolian woman’.
Oh my goodness, Mr DPM, this is the 21st century. This is the Age of the Internet. Where have you been? The rakyat are no longer stupid. Perhaps one good thing that the Barisan Nasional (read Umno) government has done is use billions of taxpayers’ money to send thousands of Malaysian students (of one particular race) abroad to study. So now, it’s payback time! Their minds are more open; they have seen the world, soaked in new ideas, experienced freedom and have analytical minds.
The public is not confused. Not at all. The public is very clear about the issues. And the public wants justice, accountability, honesty, compassion, and integrity. Can the Barisan Nasional government give us these things? Oh, oh, the silence is deafening. I thought so.
Corruption, crime, injustice, arrogance, and lies are running rampant in Bolehland. What have you done, as the people’s elected representative, to combat these ills of society? You have party colleagues who are sexists and racists, and colleagues in Parliament who advocate ‘closing one eye’ to corrupt practices, and you do nothing about them. Now you want the public to sympathise with you?
The Court of Public Opinion is running on overtime. Mr DPM, if you care, just pop by any coffee shop or warung in the morning before you go to work, have a cuppa there and listen to what Malaysians from all walks of life have to say about you. Listen to the questions they ask about the Mongolian woman’s murder trial, and the so-called ‘commissions’ paid out to crony companies in the fighter jets and submarine deals. Listen to what they have to say about the stupid National Service programme. It’s enlightening. You must try it. But you are perhaps too far detached to even bother isn’t it? And you claim to have the people’s interest at heart?
There is absolutely no need for you to point the finger at the opposition. You only need to listen to the rakyat. And the rakyat is smart enough to know what’s going on. They don’t need the opposition to be the penghasut. Your job is not to point fingers. Your job is to answer to the people, the rakyat, and do the right thing. You need to convince the Court of Public Opinion that what you have said to date is indeed the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Otherwise, what you have said in the august House will have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.
There is definitely a need for a commission of inquiry into the government’s 2002-2003 purchase of the two French-made Scorpene submarines, and the 18 Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jets. The rakyat can no longer take your word for it. And if the rakyat wants an investigation into these deals, proceed with the investigations. It is the rakyat paying for it anyway. So who are you to say it is not necessary? Perhaps, it is timely to remind you that in a democracy, the people are the boss. Not the government. The government is the servant of the people. We seem to have this notion reversed up for a long, long time. No more!
The rakyat also demands the deals be scrutinised by the government opening its books to be examined. Perhaps then, the people will believe what you say. On the PSC-Naval Dockyard patrol boats project for the navy, where is the great Amin Shah? Is he not liable to answer for this botched project that has cost the taxpayers billions of ringgit?
And you actually reckon the National Service programme is well-received by the rakyat eh? In that case, it would be proper to NOT force parents to send their children to these camps. Allow them the choice to decide if they want their children to participate. Can the government do that in the event that you still insist for the programme to continue? Or would that hurt the bank accounts of the organisers too much? You had earlier said the National Service programme cannot be terminated because ‘too many parties were involved’. So it’s not about fostering national unity or promoting racial integration is it. It’s about profit, isn’t it?
Mr DPM, you are a seasoned politician. You are also the people’s elected representative. But strangely, you don’t sound too concerned about the deaths of these innocent kids in the NS camps. You don’t seem too concerned about what the affected parents are going through. You are indifferent, as many of your party colleagues in Parliament are. You are indifferent because these kids are not your own flesh and blood. They don’t count. You really can’t be bothered, can you? Now that’s extremely telling about the kind of leader you are.
As a taxpayer and a member of the electorate, I demand that you prepare a list showing which member of the Cabinet has children participating in the NS camps, or is it true that children of ministers and Umno cronies do not have to attend these camps?
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353648/1/.html
SAF suspends physical training after two deaths in two days
By Valarie Tan, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 12 June 2008 1715 hrs
SINGAPORE: Singapore’s Ministry of Defence has declared a three-day time-out (12-14 June) on all physical and endurance training activities in the army, navy and air force.
This follows the deaths of two servicemen within two days.
20-year-old Officer Cadet (OCT) Lam Jia Hao Clifton, a pilot trainee with the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), died on Wednesday, one-and-a-half hours after he collapsed while he was undergoing jungle orientation training in Brunei.
A day earlier, 20-year-old army recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong died after he fainted while taking part in a two-kilometre walk training activity on Pulau Tekong.
Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean said the time-out will allow the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) to review and re-focus on training activities to ensure that proper procedures are in place before training resumes. – CNA/ir
Related News
• RSAF serviceman dies after collapsing during training
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353643/1/.html
• NS recruit dies after fainting during training activity
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353163/1/.html
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2008/jun/12jun08_nr2.html
Statement from Minister for Defence Teo Chee Hean
Posted: 12 Jun 2008, 1500 hours (Time is GMT +8 hours)
Minister for Defence Teo Chee Hean said:
“I would like to express my deep condolences to the families of the late REC Andrew Cheah Wei Siong and the late OCT Clifton Lam Jia Hao.
I am saddened by the loss of two young and precious sons of Singapore.
I support the decision of the SAF to take a time-out on physical and endurance training for 3 days. This will allow the SAF to review and refocus on such activities to ensure that proper procedures are in place and being followed, before such training resumes.
While the SAF needs to carry out realistic training, this will be done without compromise to safety.”
Related News Releases
12 Jun 08 – Death of Regular Serviceman
10 Jun 08 – Death of Serviceman
Last updated on 12 Jun 2008