Letters
by Frustrated JPA scholar
I am a medical student sponsored by JPA to study in Ireland about to complete my studies. I write to you after reading your article on the rot of the Malaysian healthcare system. We JPA scholars here have been very frustrated with the JPA enforcing us to immediately return to the country upon graduation, barring us from continuing training as interns (equivalent of houseman) in the countries where we graduated from This would mean we cannot obtain the sufficient exposure that would make our training complete, and would off course, mean a waste of taxpayers money as there would have been no difference with studying locally.
JPA had announced recently that none of its medical scholars overseas will be allowed the opportunity to do further train overseas even at their own expanses, and are to return ASAP upon graduation. No scholar would be allowed to stay on regardless of the training posts they obtain upon graduation. To add to the spice of JPA’s foolishness, it seems that JPA gives priority to romantic relationships over the academic achievements of its scholars by giving exception to remain overseas to those who are married to a fellow JPA/MARA sponsored student who are still commencing studies in the foreign country concerned.
Till today, I have yet to comprehend the narrow minded policies set by the JPA. JPA seems to fail to understand that by allowing its scholars to stay on for postgraduate training, many will be offered positions in world-renowned healthcare institutions. The exposure and experience gained through these positions would be an invaluable asset to the country and the rakyat in the future. Unfortunately, JPA seems to be adamant in having fresh graduate doctors returning to receive Malaysian medical training, instead of allowing these fresh grads to further train themselves and one day return as first world specialists who will reform and infuse new uptodate skills in Malaysian Healthcare a few years down the road. Also of importance is the availability of funding to do research work in these foreign teaching hospitals, which is significantly lacking in Malaysia. Would it not make Malaysia proud if Malaysian Doctors were publishing their research work in heavy weight journals in the medical world. Upon return, these foreign trained doctors will then be able to start up a trend of research-based medicine, to the benefit of the ranking of Malaysian universities who lose out because of lack in research.
This immediate return policy has also stunted the motivation of many JPA scholars. Housemanship placements in Malaysia show disregard to academic achievements. It is random where one is sent to at best, and at its worst influenced by racism and cronism. This off course does not help in encouraging JPA scholars to strive to improve themselves. Knowing the fact that additional experience, eg opitional research and academic grades do not count later on, there are some who have lost motivation, and many who have been apprehensive in taking further steps to improve themselves due to the fear that the JPAs immediate return policy might put all their effort into waste by abruptly discontinuing their work.
Starting year 2008, there will be at least 2000 Malaysian fresh medical graduates from the various public and private universities sprouting throughout the country, not to forget graduates returning from Russia, Indonesia, India and Ukraine. This number is likely to rise over the coming years. Will MOH be able to cope with the demand for training posts? Will the ministry of health be able to provide enough housemenship positions, and if yes, will these posts provide high quality training, as the saying goes ‘too many cooks spoil the soup’? In the long term, will the ministry of health be able to provide enough specialist opportunities, considering its eagerness to do away with MRCP and only recognize the local masters program? My fear is that there will be a bottleneck down the pipeline, and many competent doctors will be failed by JPA and the ministry of health’s poor planning. Henceforth, to lessen the burden on the Malaysian Healthcare system, it would only be simple common sense to allow those graduating from foreign universities who are offered good opportunities to continue with their post graduate training overseas without having to return immediately, as it is the easiest way to gain access to train in these countries.
During one of the talks given by JPA officials who visited Ireland, a student raised a question on the rationale of JPAs ‘immediate return policies’. The officer in charge went in a rage and accused the people who wanted to stay as ‘just wanting to earn money’. I could not believe the narrow mindedness behind these words. For one, what is wrong with earning money? Also, many JPA scholars are top achievers, and view further career advancement as the driving force behind their intention to remain and continue training overseas. The plight of these JPA scholars has fallen on deaf ears of the JPA authorities. Many of JPA’s policy makers are not doctors themselves. How are they to understand the need of good training even at a post graduate level.
Finally, I would like to stress that all JPA scholars love their country, and would love to return to serve. However to my view, it would be better to return after adequate exposure to first world healthcare, as this would bring the most benefit to the rakyat. I am also fully aware that a contract is a contract, (despite the fact JPA changed the contract one-sidedly half way through our training from a penalty of RM160,000 to approximately a million ringgit) without prior warning), and if JPA remains adamant to prevent its scholars to further develop their skills overseas, the only thing we can do is to return as housemen. The authorities in JPA, however, should understand that to attract talent in the public service, the more effective methods would be by improving pay, ensuring fairness by meritocracy and adequate training opportunities,. By using brute force, many may return, but only with the intention of leaving as soon as the bond imposed is over.
Just consider that you are good and lucky to get a JPA scholarship.
Why grumble now? Before you go, I believe that you have read and signed the scholarship agreement.
If you think the terms and conditions are not favourable then, then do not go. It is too late……..
You have been away for too long doing your studies. In the meantime, alot of “Little Napoleons” have sprung up according to the PM.
These “little ones” can be quite mischievious, making alot of decisions that do not make sense according to their whims and fancies and “angin” at the appropriate times.
Even “big Napoleons” like Ministers have also made disparaging remarks like “why so many Indians here” and the like so this “Napoleon syndrome” can be found in all levels of the hierarchy.
But good news for you!!!!
There was a massive tsunami on 8th March which seems to have some effect on this syndrome. This disease might be in check for the moment so perhaps you and your colleaques might wish to retry your luck with the JPA. Hopefully, these Napoleons might be gone and the Duke of Wellington’s fellows might be in charge.
I sympathise with you but I hope the new administration fellows with supposedly big ears will finally hear you.
Otherwise you could go AWOL like the many who have done so before you. Funny, the Napoleon fellows can’t seem to locate them even after one or two generations, to get them to repay their loans. So there you are.
Just come back and serve the nation. Your original contract was for the undergraduate studies. Only in very special circumstances can your appeal be allowed for further work or studies eg. you are into some very special research that can only be done there.
Be thankful that the nation has given you a chance to study abroad. Malaysia needs you.
I think the gomen should by all means encourage these young talented people to stay on in their repective places of academic study to gain world class practical training before requiring them to return home to serve. That way they can serve better.
To deny them invaluable practical training is not only a waste of tax payers money, it is utter selfishness & shortsightedness!
When people know you truly love & care about the people, they will sacrifice and come back to serve. When people know that you discriminate people, even those that are at home will try to find ways to get out of the country!
Just come backlah!. We provide you our money to study undergraduate course onlylah! Specialist training can be done in Malaysia too. I can assure you training in Malaysia is not too badlah. We need doctors now urgently (from Malaysia and from foreign countries). Don’t be so selfish. We don’t mind if you are self-sponsored.
First off, you are one of the lucky few who have got a JPA Scholarship to study overseas & a Medical Scholarship to boot!
Secondly, I have heard (I’m sorry if I’m wrong) that many of those who stay on to do their Housemanship & then Postgraduate or even get appointments to work Overseas, never come back (& they don’t reimburse the JPA for breaking their bond).
Come back & serve your country & the people (us Tax Payers) who have paid for your studies.
After you serve your “bond period”, you can always do your postgraduate studies Overseas or otherwise.
I am a doctor and I understand your wish to continue training in world class healthcare facilities, because unfortunately, not long after I graduated from University of Malaya, our medical degree was not recognised by the General Medical Council of UK – due to possibly lowering of standards.
However, you will need more than 1 year as an intern to be fully trained as a specialist. So what you want is probably another 4-5 years before returning to Malaysia. This will mean that you will be away for approximately 10 years.
Do you think that it would be fair to the people who sponsored your studies – the taxpayers?
Probably what JPA should do will be to allow those scholars who do well – e.g. those with 1st Class Honours to continue. This will spur all the scholars to do well
For your information MRCP,FRCS holders in UK are just registrar only and not specialist. Only in Malaysia they are call specialists. In UK these doctors have to undergo few years of training before being considered true specialists
To all JPA medical scholars
Just be grateful that you are getting a British medical degree at taxpayers’ expense. Most of you spend 5 years studying and we have to pay for your expenses for those five years.
Both my friend’s 2 children are holding JPA scholars and are studying in the U.K. and each of those scholarships are worth in excess of RM1 million (fees, expenses, allowances, etc.). We are spending more than a million bucks to train each of them and here you are complaining about the Govt. being unfair. Why don’t you grow up!! We Malaysians don’t owe you anything! JUST COME BACK AND SERVE THE NATION!
Cont….
Sorry link was broken.
Another friend of mine had a child who applied for a STUDY LOAN, not a scholarship, of only RM10K but was rejected on technical grounds. You JPA scholars wanna talk about fairness????
Just be grateful, we taxpayers don’t owe you anything!!
You should return to serve the country as per requirement in the scholarship agreement.
There are many more brighter students here but not fortunate enough to get the scholarship to study, not even locally.
So why you sulk? Post graduate “first world training” mentioned is just a lame excuse.
You accept the scholarship, you also accept the social responsibilities to the country, to the tax payers here and to the poor people here who desperately need the basic medical and health care.
If you are high achiever and full of aspiration, the more you should understand the spirit of the scholarship award, to serve the nation to the best of your ability.
You go to any government hospital or clinic in the country, you see the long queues, why? Not enough medical personnel to attend to the poor and needy patients!
Don’t you have the heart for them? Instead you are sulking about the “first world” postgraduate training?
There many bright and outstanding specialists trained here locally, they are as good, if not better than those trained in the so-called by you, “first world” training.
It is time for you to show your gratitude and patriotism through deeds and not words. No sulking and be grateful for what you enjoy now, which many here cannot even dream of!!
Cont…
For the information of all, both my friend’s 2 children have signed 10 year bonds to serve the Govt. upon the completion of their studies. However, there is a release clause. They only have to pay back the Govt. 10% of what the Govt. spend on them to train them. YES, only 10%. They only have to pay back the Govt. RM100K-odd to be released from the bonds and they can do their own thing.
You still wanna talk about fairness (or unfairness)??
You had a scholarship from the Govt, think of the others who had missed out and had to fork out their own money for it. Did they get any break ? I know of some that had to work hard while studying hard there and the stress of trying to survive and pass their subjects. Just like the company that send you expensive training, they would like to see some return for their money.
It is not a matter of loyalty but rather one of a commercial decision. The money belongs to the Malaysian tax payers, Malaysia do not have enough doctors and we are importing doctors!!! If the system is failing you, more reason to change the system and make noise. In view of your career, well, I hate to put it to you but the cold reality is that your service as a doctor comes before your career. Serve your time as a way to pay back the tax payers for what we have given you, after that, you can decided where your career will go.
This is utterly rubbish and selfish attitude. You took the tax payer money to study oversea and now you refuse to come back because you want to so called continue your postgraduate study. Just to remind you that, without the scholarship you are NOBODY and no chance to study medicine. You should be very grateful that you are given a opportunity to pursue your dream to become a doctor. You should honour your contract by coming back to serve your master who are the tax payers before even think of consider to develop your career to the next level. It is because of the shameless people like you who robbed the tax payer money by giving all these rubbish reason to stay back in UK so that you can earn you British Pound. You selfish idiot who had nothing to start off is given a opportunity to study a job (when many others were denied) and guaranteed a job with 6k salary when you are back have the gut trying to bargain so that you can stay back to make more money on the expense of tax payer money. I am really ashamed that you are a Malaysian. The JPA for once did the right thing by changing the fine to 1 million.
I definitely do NOT empathise with the writer. Come on, you are given a chance to study overseas at taxpayers account. As soon as you graduate, KINDLY COME HOME TO SERVE IN WHATEVER CAPACITY FITS YOU. We are very short of doctors.
I am sure that when you accept the scholarship, you are aware of the conditions. If you want to hang on in Ireland, you should have gone on your parents’ scholarship.
Do not be selfish. STOP COMPLAINING AND TAKE THE FIRST PLANE BACK TO SERVE THE POOR HERE IF YOU ARE THAT SINCERE!!!
I said that someone received the JPA scholarship and wants to stay oversea and say all unacceptable excuses.
I am a taxpayer likes other Internet surfers and could not keep our mouth silent for too long after reading the letter. You are using our money for the oversea studies and do not want to return home to pay your duty. Medical training can be done anywhere as long as there are mentors to guide you whether it is is government clinic or hospital. Do houseman in oversea, will you return home after the houseman? Majority of the doctors will not return home due to high pay. Which you never receive that amount salary in any government hospitals.
Currently, Malaysia is lacking a few thousand doctors. If all graduated medical doctors have same thinking as you, Malaysia will continue suffer what we have now. Where can the poor get their medical service or attention when they are sick? Please come to Malaysia hospitals and see it yourself. Full selfish oversea medical student.
You are given a JPA scholarship, you should thank god that you receive it and study oversea. Some graduated STPM students which achieved high grade may not have such lucky chance to study in oversea.
I urge you that stop complaint about the requirements. If you do not agree with requirements, you should pass the opportunity to who needs it and want to return home to serve this country.
If you want to do postgraduate medical course, I suggest you that you should save or ask for funding after you have serve the requirement bond with the JPA. Then it is you to decide what medical field to consider. We (as Malaysians citizen) will not stop you whether you want to continue serving your professional in oversea like Ireland, US, Canada and etc.
If the JPA knows that you are such a selfish medical student, they should give this golden opportunity to other great student who will return and serve this country.
Mr Lim,
We should not champion this type of scholars. After all there are so many who are in need of money just to get their first degree. This guy is lucky enough to get a JPA scholarship to study overseas.
HE IS DEFINITELY SELFISH TO HANG ON OVERSEAS. ASK HIM TO COME HOME TO START SERVING!!! THE POOR HERE NEED MEDICAL SERVICE URGENTLY.
I WOULD DEFINITELY ASK HIM TO SHUT UP !!!
YES. CONVEY OUR OPINION TO JPA AND GET THEM HOME !!!
“Finally, I would like to stress that all JPA scholars love their country, and would love to return to serve”!
You make me laugh. How many of those om JPA scholarship to do specialist course continue to servin with the government upon completing the contract? The moment they have satisfy the condition, off they go to the private. Hey, most of them love $$$ sign more than the country.
I know of a few doctors who simply do not even want to serve in Sabah and Sarawak inspite of their scholarship. So MUCH FOR THEIR CARE OF THE POOR eh!!!
Im a local JPA scholar final year medical student
please dont grumble too much lah, u have been given the chance to study abroad for undergraduate study with the rakyat’s money is good enough…
every JPA scholar medical student abroad or local must start their compulsory years working for rakyat right after they graduated. we all have used up the rakyat’s money and later still grumble for more huh? wake up lah, its not ur money. just be respect and i think JPA treats all the same…
dontlah say that your undergraduate years of studying abroad does not giv u enough experience lah. what are u doing during your clinical years? playing around? medical situation here and abroad are far different from each other. if you intended to serve the rakyat, just come back and start working here lah. dont grumble too much…
im a final year local medical student, JPA scholar somemore and im very sure this guy here grumble too much. if not gaining experience abroad during his undergraduates is totally his fault!
No, I don’t think it’s the plight of the JPA medical scholars but the plight of the JPA instead. I’m in agreement with the views of many of the writers here who feel the medical scholars ought to come back to serve their housemanship.
I am sympathetic to the plight of Frustrated JPA Scholar above.
To JusticeWanted, yes, he (OR she) may have signed the contract and thus, he should adhere to the terms and return home if that was in the terms. But note! JPA made a drastic change to the bond-breaking terms mid-way for whatever reason. That’s not fair to Frustrated and other affected JPA scholars. You should be shouting for justice for Frustrated there.
To all of you who claim Frustrated is selfish for wanting to continue his internship in Ireland EVEN AT HIS OWN EXPENSE, your concern for shortage of doctors is commendable, but how shortsighted you are!
Malaysian scholars, even those under JPA scholarship, who are able to seek out their own oppportunities and resources to further improve themselves with further education and training should be given every encouragement to do so!
You sound like sour grapes the way you go on about how lucky Frustrated is to have a JPA scholarship and how selfish he is for not boarding the first plane home.
The JPA contract is of course a contract and so the scholars must return, but a postponement of their bond to serve in Malaysia to 3-4 years later, in exchange for an even better qualified and well exposed doctor is to Malaysia’s great advantage.
Furthermore, the root cause of the lack of doctors in Malaysia is not that these JPA medicine scholars are not returning home, but that our universities do not have the capacity to train enough qualified doctors quickly enough to cope with the demand. There is certainly no shortage in the number of qualified students wanting to study medicine.
Compound that with the fact that public healthcare has not proved monetarily rewarding enough for our young doctors to stay within the service once their housemanship is over. If we fix the corruption leaks in the government, we’d have more money to channel into improving public healthcare for our medical staff and for the public.
I say Frustrated has fair cause to be frustrated with the JPA. I applaud him for putting this issue out for public debate. I wish him all the very best in trying to improve himself in his medicine career and look forward to having him in our public service.
The fault lies with our idiotic govenment policies……..undergraduate studies do locally……save tax payer’s money for postgraduate studies, attachments, fellowships, etc…..the JPA and Education Ministry must reap what they sow. Do you see India, China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Indonesia, Russia, US, France, etc sending students overseas for undergraduate studies????? …But as usual …tax payer’s will always end up paying for all these cock-ups…
Looks like “adriene” above is either a parent whose child has a JPA scholarship or is a JPA scholarship holder herself. I quote here what she(?) said:
“You sound like sour grapes the way you go on about how lucky Frustrated is to have a JPA scholarship…….”
Perhaps, you are old and retired and not paying any taxes. In that case, please refrain from commenting!
Adriene: You obviously is not in the medical community. Every doctor in public service know that the working environment and pay in the public service is not comparable to the UK. Everyone of us knew that they want to stay back because they want to earn the British Pound. To say that they want to serve better after the post graduate study is utterly bullshit. All of us knew that if they ever become a specialist, they will try very hard to stay back in UK or when come back they will just pay the penalty and go to private sector (that’s why they got upset when JPA raise the fine to 1 million in stead of 160k which they can easily pay back with their British Pound).
If you are on FAMA scholarship, you have every right to stay back but if you took the tax payer money, your top priority is to honour your contract. Your career development is a privilege (to be given later after you serve your paymaster) and not your right anymore. You own the Malaysian citizen your responsibility to serve them even though you may be paid poorly and have to work like a dog here because without the tax payer money, you are NOTHING.
raven77: What you said is absolutely right. Sending students to UK is merely due to political reason. Absolutely not cost efficient. These UK graduate do not perform better than any of the HOs from local U or even Indonesian U. More often they perform worse than the local HOs because they lac of clinical experience and exposure in UK.
The Malaysia gov should stop sending students to oversea for basic medical degree. They should spend money sending doctors for sub specialty training which the country severely lack of. After all we have 22 medical schools (public and private) in Malaysia to train basic doctor. Sending students to UK is a waste of money and in many occasion, the students cannot have the prinicple to honour the their contract and behave like a traitor just because they like the pay and lifestyle there.
JPA scholarship itself is a joke and there is no surprise that we get this kind of joker scholar. Read and see whether you agree with this blogger, http://pilseung.blogspot.com/2008/02/jpa-scholarship.html
adriene, im a JPA scholar, a final year medical student studying in local university….
and im telling u that this guy’s reason is unreasonable at all…
the point of asking them to come back for houseman ship is to teach them about the reality of healthcare system over here lah…
medical situations here and abroad are of very much different…
1. they dont have dengue, malaria, tuberculosis etc
2. and theyve got alot of fund to do MRI or CT Scan for every pt that dont really need it…they should come back and learn how things working over here without MRI or CT Scan machine in Sabah or Sarawak rural areas
3. later in practice we do see these so called damn good oversea medical graduates being laughed out by staff nurses and hospital attendance for prescribing drugs that donot even exist here plus with doses unacceptable over here…
4. try sending them to Gua Musang for instance to educate the ppl over there on health awareness and im sure of none would understand what hes trying to deliver…
**Medical achievement is based upon ur medical experiences, not based on where u graduated, what level of quality of medical educated u had. If u intended to serve the rakyat, the taxpayers who pay ur scholar, come back home, go to Gua Musang, even rural Borneo, learn the medical reality over here. No MRI, no CT Scan, swimming in pools of infections, go and talk to our Orang Asli and give them some education….these are what medical is meant! You better shut your mouth and stop complaining.
“Starting year 2008, there will be at least 2000 Malaysian fresh medical graduates from the various public and private universities…Will MOH be able to cope with the demand for training posts?…Will the ministry of health be able to provide enough housemenship positions”
– Please come to East Malaysia, definitely can absorb you, don’t ya worry.
The taxpayers has spent at least half a million for your undergrad studies. Come back so that locally trained doctors who have been doing “charity work” WHILE PAYING TAXES TO FUND YOU can get their turn to go for further training. Don’t think of yourself and your career only. There are many doctors in M’sia who are also capable.
Malaysia unfortunately is not interested in getting super specialized doctors. Our BASIC medical care has still much to be desired.
I’m not being judgemental but there are many JPA scholars who stayed back in a foreign country to “pursue further training” never returned home. Take Singapore for instance.
If you paid with your own money to study medicine overseas, then fine. Do what you like.
adriene Says:
Today at 20: 28.40 (27 minutes ago)
I am sympathetic to the plight of Frustrated JPA Scholar above.
To JusticeWanted, yes, he (OR she) may have signed the contract and thus, he should adhere to the terms and return home if that was in the terms. But note! JPA made a drastic change to the bond-breaking terms mid-way for whatever reason. That’s not fair to Frustrated and other affected JPA scholars. You should be shouting for justice for Frustrated there.
============================
The country has spent more than a million on him and he is complaining about not improving himself. Has he thought of how he can serve the country instead? If every JPA scholars are like him, will it be very choatic for the JPA to keep track of them. Be contented and grateful that your initial plans of be a doctor is going to be fulfilled. Your plans might have changed but please fulfill your obligations to the nation.
With that state of mind, you are not fit to become a doctor, not to mention a specialist. You have fogotten the Hippocrates Oath. You are not compassionate at all and only want to become a super specialist. You’ll become a sick doctor. We, Malaysian regret to sponsor you. You must have sweet-talked the JPA to allow you to go oversea but actually you have other intentions.
Let me tell you, most of the sickness (> 80%)you encounter do not need specialist attention not to mention super specialist. Tax payers don’t wish you to become a super specialist at this moment. They want you to come back as soon as possible and will be very grateful to you if you can treat 80% of their problems at primary care level.
It is important for JPA to choose scholars with the correct attitude before offering them scholarships.
The writer of the letter is obviously speaking without a clear grasp of the actual situation in Malaysian hospitals.
Frustrated as i am with the discrimative Ministry of Health, I must concede that housemanship training in Malaysia may be actually be better than overseas.
It’s not because we have more knowledgeable specialists here or learned consultants eager to impart knowledge.
It’s not because we have better lab or imaging facilities – we don’t!
It’s merely because we have a high patient load with a wide variety of conditions that require a doctors’ clinical acument and versatile communication skills and much more hands-on training.
We end up being confident and astute doctors at the end of housemanship.
That of course can only materialise if one is sincere in becoming a good doctor.
Apart from that, yes, our healthcare system is still pathetic.
baoqingtian, fully supported u…here are my experiences as a medical student with some abroad graduated houseman…
1. got one houseman from ireland if im not mistaken, u know he asked us last time was year 4 medical student to teach him how to set an intravenous line. He said “Why here so different lah, there abroad very easy one?”. In my mind, “Hes not worth to be a doctor, graduated abroad somemore!”
2. if graduating abroad is so damn good, why still got candidates failed the easy up to the standard entry examination?. In my mind, “they study nothing abroad, jollying their scholar money somemore!”
**Now im serious, stop sending JPA scholars abroad, waste of taxpayer money…
adriene,
The nation is sorely in need of doctors. In trying to do housemanship or speciale right after graduation overseas is very, very selfish on the writer’s part. He is placing his self interest above the nation’s. He or she is trying to get his specialist training in the shortest time possible. upon returning to Malaysia, he just have to serve out his contract and then disappear to the private sector.
Please do not justify his or her argument.
I say it again, STOP COMPLAINING AND TAKE THE FIRST FLIGHT HOME TO SERVE THE NATION WHICH SORELY NEEDS YOUR SERVICE !!!!
From an academic point of view, I of course sympathise with you. However, if you look at the rational of the government, then you have to say they are only trying to make a “return” on their investment. Even if they do let you continue your specialist studies overseas, what guarantee do they have that you will return? Sure, perhaps they should think about funding postgraduate study too, especially since it’s research intensive (oh, how Malaysia suffers in this area), but at the end of the day, there needs to be a return on their investment.
Plus, I find your blanket statement about ALL JPA scholars loving their country to be a tad presumptuous – you may, but there will be many who will happily abscond given the opportunity. Not that there’s anything wrong with wanting to settle in another country in such a global era – but to use that as your justification that JPA scholars will return doesn’t reflect well on your maturity or social awareness.
I wanna spank this “frustrated” JPA scholar. Grow up, be a man (or woman), honor your contract. How can the public trust you with their lives if you can’t even honor your obligation you signed with your eyes wide open.
Don’t try to justify your wish to break the contract by intellectualizing your wishy washy arguments. It’s just b*****t to me.
After reading Frustrated JPA scholar’s letter, I want to ask him one simple question that is …
After all the years studying oversea & enjoying the best thing there, are u willing to come home to serve the poor old & unfortunate Malaysian & live a pathetic life?
You are the lucky one who got the chance to study oversea yet you still want to stay a little bit longer just in the name of getting a little bit experience.
Tell me after you getting all the expertise & knowledge, what can you contribute to the country. After coming home, you will the same as everyone else “Malaysian”.
Just ask yourselves, after you got a very good pay job there & enjoying your life there, how are you wanting to come home to serve with the pathetic little sum of pay.
Dear Uncle Lim,
I think it is time to propose to the government to stop sending our precious student to study abroad on government sponsored study loan/scholarship.
The idea is good but it is subjected to abuse. We have seen well off son getting the sponsorship or the one got it refused to come back & some even ignored to pay back.
Rather than sending our student out, how about getting the experts in to train our student locally. In this case, we can train hundred instead of the selected few.
In this way, we can also upgrade our local facilities & can even attract foreign student.
Why kept on wasting money by sending students overseas? Use that money to improve our local universities. For the spending on one JPA student, you can have many more local students, and hopefully to also improve the ranking of local u.
To the sender of this letter…you’re very lucky to be chosen for the JPA scholarship…what is there to grumble again..?..even one of my family members got 100% As’ in SPM/STPM didnt manage to get the scholarship…you accept the scholarship means you had agreed the terms and conditions the moment u signed the agreement…pls bear in mind that GOV money = taxpayer money..without the money? will u be able to study medi ? or should i say how many of us afford to study abroad for such course?
I’m an overseas graduate with some financial aid from the university. Even for me, I I agree with the majority here that the JPA scholar should be grateful with the opportunity to study overseas especially medicine degree depending on where you study, could cost up to RM600k-1M. Thus, it’s only sensible that he/she comes back to Malaysia to serve the bond. But, being fair to both sides, some scholarships with bond up to 10 years may be too long as these scholars could have lost the opportunity to further develop their career in the best possible way. I guess some ways could be to revise this to a shorter period but, the government should strictly enforce this. But, of course, the government should also try to do their part in ensuring that the work environment and the remuneration is competitive locally for these scholars to work in when they do come back. After all, to be fair, it’s not really optimal when you have someone capable who graduated from the UK in Medicine only to come back to their own country where policies are not in place and not having the right facilities. It’s balancing act which I strongly believe it’s the responsibility of the government and the individual.
All JPA scholars should come back and serve their bond. If they are really that good , then they can apply to further their qualifications. They must be judged in Malaysia. Otherwise make them pay the full amount on what the government have spent on them, if they want to buy themselves out. Please, not 10%.
You are lucky. I met a JPA scholar (Chinese girl) in IMU. She told me that when she went for an interview for scholarship. There was 13 students at that interview and out of 13 only 1 Chinese and 1 Indian. The officer in-charge (racist) scrutinize her and brainwash her to an extent she nearly give up. She told me that she score 13 As and the Indian student 11 As but the others only 5 As and all of them will be our future Dr. Yet the officer try to make her loose heart and give up. When nonMalay students give up JPA scholarship, they will say, No non-Malay want to apply the scholarship. Well, this is our children’s future under BN especially MCA and MIC.
Here is an ungrateful spoilt “scholar” wasting the rakyat’s money. You were so lucky to get sponsorship to do medical studies (overseas some more!) which many more deserving students could only dream of.
In my time in the early 60’s, I got admission into MU for medical course after good results in my HSC. I came from a very poor family and could’nt afford the course. My ambition was to be a neurosurgeon. I attended a few govt state and federal scholarship interviews but failed – reason? you guessed it! it had already started then.
I then wrote to all the commonwealth countries in the world to ask for a scholarship. All replied in the negative as their scholarship offers had been disbursed thru the Malaysian govt then. So, no way I could make it as a doctor or eventual specialist. I slogged in industry and worked my way up over the years. No regrets, just a victim of circumstances.
However I must add this piece of information to complete my story.
When I had started working for a year or so, I had heard then that the opposition politician the late Dr Tan Chee Koon (bless his soul!) does sponsor, out of his own finances, 4 deserving medical students annually, with the only condition that once the student graduates, the graduate doctor must sponsor one deserving student as payback. Bless his soul again!
To cut the story short, I wrote to him explaining and he wrote back saying I am working now and can save up to study. I wrote back explaining not possible, as 75% of my income goes back home to mum to settle expenses and small loans accumulated by family. My family of 6 stayed in a rented room to survive then. Dr Tan eventually wrote back and asked me to see him. I pondered over this for nearly 3 months before replying to him, that under the circumstances I cannot stop remitting the bulk of my small income to support my family, and thanked him to offer to another deserving student under the circumstances.
This is not a sob story. Hard decision but done out of basic necessity for family’s survival. This is called obligation and commitment. Any regrets? None.
So, Mr or Miss Frustrated JPA Scholar, ( you call yourself a scholar?), thank your lucky stars and do you bit for society. I paid my taxes to partly finance your scholarship, you know?
Yeah mate, to be honest. The only reason ou wanted to stay overseas is because of the MONEY! If you get paid more in Malaysia than in the UK, will you still wanna stay in UK?
The truth is, by working for a few years in UK, you’ll probably earn enough money to buy yourself out of JPA’s bond. By then will you still wanna return to Malaysia to serve with that pathetic wage after being used to the highly paid salary in the UK? CMON, don’t fool yourself or us!
This reminds me of an event some time ago while I was recruiting for my company. I’d short-listed several candidates, where 7-8 of them were 1st class Honours fresh students from local U (bout 1/3 came from UM).
There were these 2 particular candidates from UM which I’d approved but were later rejected by my VP and I was forced to pick other candidates whose academic qualification is no match compared to the 2 candidates that my boss had dropped.
Anyway, to cut the story short, I’d manage to cut some deal with my boss and end of the day, I’d brought these 2 first class candidates together with few others into my department.
1 year+ later, I’d finally realized my VP decision to reject them in the first place was with solid reason.
First candidate that my boss rejected back then was based on the reason that he/she is too academic oriented. I disagreed with my boss initially, but after 1 year+ of observation, I can’t help but to agree with my boss. This candidate treat corporate world as education world, where ‘students’ should be allowed to do their own experiments & studies at their own pace and at one point, this candidate even asked permission to stay at home during office hour so that he/she can focus to ‘study’ while on the company payroll. After a while, this candidate requested for transfer of department because this job is ‘boring’ and he/she wanted to move on to the next level like from Degree to Master and then from Master to PhD. lol
2nd candidate that my boss had rejected was based on the judgment that he/she is not a team player and have attitude problem. It turned out my VP was right after all, but I will not elaborate in details as this would involve corporate confidential information.
From then onwards, whenever I recruit new staff, I’ll always try to go for 2nd class Upper rather then trying to form an All Star team of first class Honours. Academic result is no doubt important as it’s an evaluation of how short a candidate’s learning curve is to the new job, but I’d learn a few lessons from that incident and would evaluate my candidate based on other criteria that are equally important as well.
I believe the author of this ‘master piece’ still view life after work the same as life before work. That’s why the idealist wishes of ‘further internship’ opportunity in a foreign land and to ‘further improve themselves while earning some spare pound’ should be granted because it’s ‘unfair’ for them etc etc etc.
I do have 2 questions for the author:
1. How long does he think he’ll need to ‘further improve himself in foreign land while earning some peanuts pound’ before he is ‘ready’ to come back to Malaysia to serve the rakyat that actually pay their taxes for him to be on a JPA scholarship? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years?
2. After his return back to Malaysia to ‘serve’ the rakyat (be it forcefully by a contract or voluntarily with a caring heart), how long will he serve in government sector or rather how many poor patients he can treat before he move to pursuit his career advancement for the better gold & glory? 3 years? 5 years? 7 years?
If any of my children had a JPA scholarship I would advice them to come back and serve the country but none of my four children had a JPA scholarship.So when they finished their medical degree I will just tell them not to return and serve this country that has not given them anything.If possible just stay and work there for good.This country dont deserve you.Thats what I tell my children.But for those who have benefitted, just come back and serve the nation. No ifs and Buts.
My apology for anyone from UM or any 1st class Honours scholar out there that might had been offended by my message above.
Dear Richard,
I beg to differ on your suggestion. Everyone has a choice, but if LKS asked Guan Eng to ‘stay out of this country and forever not return as it has not given him anything’, what do you think would happen on 08 of March 2008?
Also, based on your rational, only people from rich background who are fortunate enough to have daddy like you whom can afford to send 4 children oversea on Medical degree are allowed to pursue their oversea happiness? So the poor people should be ‘condemn and rot in Malaysia, no Ifs and Buts’ because their parents are not as rich as you? I certainly think that this logic has some flaws in it!
If you can afford to send your 4 lovely children oversea on medical degree, why strip off this opportunity from others who require this chance of a lifetime through JPA but is unable to afford it so?
I wonder…….
Anybody who can send 4 kids overseas to study medicine must be a millionaire if not a multimillionaire ;)
If everybody who didn’t get scholarship stayed outside M’sia then our population will be very very small indeed. Chuckle.
A flawed logic is the result of a flawed mind.
“From then onwards, whenever I recruit new staff, I’ll always try to go for 2nd class Upper rather then trying to form an All Star team of first class Honours. ” Morgan
There can be no doubt that those who graduate with first class honors are best suited for work in research. It is a simple issue of finding square pegs to fit into square holes and not round ones.
It reminds me of a classmate who had first class honors from Cambridge University in law but who failed to pass his London Bar Exam more than once. I don’t know what happened to him since i.e. whether he eventually passed his Bar. He’s definitely suited for work as a lecturer rather than a barrrister at law. He is good at what he does.
I met another first class honors graduate in law from the University of Malaya. She’s both brains and beauty! She languished for a while as a legal assistant. She should have gone to do her Masters and her Doctorate and work as a lecturer.
I once had a boss who has a Ph. D. He’s a poor team player. More of a loose cannon and in the corporate world this is a liability.
The latest letter by Frustrated JPA scholar really disgusted me of knowing that there is still indeed some selfish freak who thinks the whole Malaysians, especially the tax payers owe him/her a favor. Not satisfied of getting a more than half a million Ringgit to go to Ireland to study Medicine, he/she still complained that JPA being unreasonable and ridiculous for imposing ruling that requires the medical scholars to come back to serve the country upon completing their studies in overseas.
His/her writing showed the arrogance side of one of the country’s top scorers who managed to secure a prestigious scholarship to study abroad. This medical student is outright rude and ungrateful and should not have been given such scholarship in the first place.
Our country, especially the east coast of Penisular Malaysia and east Malaysia, is very short of medical doctors and yet his/her concern now is on how he/she been able to improve him/herself by continuing to work in overseas to get the so-called ‘first world’ post-graduate specialist training.
He/she also looked down on the local health care services, local medical graduates and locally trained House officers, as well as sees his/her own country as inferior, that there is no purpose for him/her to stay on to serve or treat the sicks.
I am indeed very eager to see him/her come back soon to the country to serve his/her poor fellow family members or relatives, and to show us how his/her ‘first world’ undergraduate degree makes him/her better than the rest. Show us how you function as ‘first world’ houseman first before even thinking yourself been ‘first world’ specialist!
I am proud that I am 100% locally trained and been given the opportunity to upgrade myself without the need to go overseas. Although I am not a straight As scorer, I am also proud that I did better than many straight As fellows in medical school. Despite taking the JPA RM30,000 scholarship and get bonded for 10 years (!!!), I have no regret and I am still very grateful that I am able to continue doing the things that I wanted to do, to heal the sicks and to serve mankind irrespective of their status.
Hmmm Richard. The country has not given your children anything? How about the air they breath, the water they drank, the school they go to, the security afforded by our commendable police. So where do you ask your children to go to since I suppose no other countries would have given them anything as well?
Ha ah, want to escape doing housemanship in Malaysia on some pathetic excuse of furthering one’s training. You think we were only born yesterday?
I began wondering how many of you will actually go to the gov hospital to seek specialist treatment? I bet most people nowadays go mostly to private hospital. So, just shut the hole in that face of yours and stop being a sour grape.
I do sympathize with the poor who do not have money to seek treatment in a more medically equipped private hospital. They have resorted into seeking help in gov hospital and ended up in a long waiting list. But who is to blame? The mere number of JPA scholars who stayed in overseas? I believe there are too many GPs in our country, judging from the fact that there are 3-4 clinics in a row of shop houses. Why are they not in gov hospital? Rather they preferred to start their own business..
So who is to blame?
You can count the number of JPA students(ok, i refrain to use scholars because i don’t think half of them even deserve this sholarship). They are just not that many as you thought them to be. There are actually quite a number of JPA scholars in gov hospital though.
What our country need is trained specialists. Not just mere GPs. Those who are not in medical field might not know that the place for specialist training is so limited in malaysia, plus the NEP..which i will not say further.
To some of them who said doctors who do not know how to put in an IV cannula, it’s just the different technique which is been used, i supposed. However, technique can be learned. A nurse can be trained to put in a cannula. A doctor’s job is to provide differential diagnosis and treatment. Putting in a cannulae is just a very small part in our job. What matters most is to provide a diagnosis and thus treatment.
Who says earning british pounds will make them rich? A fy1 salary for a month is around 2000 pounds..and it differs from place to place. The council tax is around 2000 pounds a year and another 30% off from the montly salary. House rent is around 300 pounds a month plus other living costs. The salary is just enough for them to survive. Not that they can afford a BMW or a mecrs here….If you have the hang of converting pounds into ringgit malaysia, why don’t you convert RM into rupee?
For you who said about investment on the scholars, don’t make yourself a fool. I think it’s rather stupid to send them to overseas and want them to come back before they can get their specialist training. With all the money the gov spend on them only to become a GP and stuck in a long waiting list in Malaysia for specialist, is that a wise move? To those who are trained locally, don’t you think it’s rather unfair for you that they are competing for the limited specialist places, especially in the surgical field?
No hard feeling guys. I am just being honest. All they want is to get the specialist training before they can come back to serve the nation.
The lack of doctors is the government’s fault. That’s why there is a brain drain. Many are stucked in foreign countries because of the unfair policy http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/03/22/mca-to-blame-for-marginalisation-of-foreign-malaysian-specialists/
I am on parents money to pursue my education now by the way.
I too am a JPA scholar in Ireland, and would agree on the view that it is partly our responsibility to return to malaysia.
However, I think ‘Frustrated JPA Scholar’ is frustrated because the MARA students are allowed to defect, with no consequence whatsoever. It’s like awarding them more than RM1 million free of charge, which is rather unfair, since the racial constitution of MARA scholars is almost entirely Malay. JPA also gives conflicting contracts and changes the condition at will, which most likely would not stand in a court of law. For example, students under a convertible loan (Pinjaman Bolehubah) do not have the 10-year bond written in their contract, instead it is written that the student can pay back the entire sum in installments. However, JPA has even refused this right to the convertible loan holders.
By the way, ‘frustrated scholar’ is right about there being limited opportunity for further specialization in malaysia. For one, it is difficult to obtain the very limited number of seats each year with favouritism towards malays still being practised. Secondly, our wonderful health board has decided to de-recognize the MRCP, which in most other countries enables a person to have a specialist status. Refer to one of the previous letters to Lim Kit Siang that he posted a few days ago.
What else is new , beside the rotting health care system, education system sucks on the whole , economic system is rotiing as well, all this is the result of NEP , LGE , well done prove them that Penang is the force to be reckoned with in Malaysia, only perhaps then THEY will wake up , including the sleeping chief Budhuwhi.
“So when they finished their medical degree I will just tell them not to return and serve this country that has not given them anything.” Richard Teo
This country gave their father a place to live, to educate himself and work, raise a family – work that allows him to pay for their education. The others are less fortunate. So stop whining!
If I understood the writer correctly, the issue is why refuse them from doing their practical internship (housemanship) abroad in the country of their study, the invaluable practical training will be an added asset to Malaysia Medical body when they eventually return to serve out their bond.
What’s the hurry to bring them home as only half baked cookies?
So what if they decide not to come back, they or their employers will pay the penalty for the breach of contract anyway.
Like I said if a person feels the love & care of his country, he will come back and serve even if the pay is less. But if he finds discrimination left right & center, he will leave the country eventually.
you must see who is the Education Minister mah…!
forever “angkat Keris lapuk”… rolf…!
People like Richard Teo should feel lucky. He is able to send his kids overseas.
Look at limkamput. He is condemned to a Kg. Attap type education. Look at what such education did to him.
yes….
come back n be a dog
a dogtor…..
wait till you work 30 hrs ++ non stop
wait till you poke yourself with HIV tainted needle due to lack of sleep
wait till you crash your car due to lack of sleep
wait till more babies arm have to be chopped off due to lack of sleep
cause nobody care of your plights….
the aim now is to cut down clinics waiting time to 30 minutes….
I think most of you completely miss the point. The question is why allowed those who married to a fellow JPA/MARA to stay on?
Please do not stray from the point
In all fairness, i know of a students who is the Top Boy in school and has striaghts A1. He couldnt get a place in local university. so he apllied to JBA. Even Russia will do for him. He is bright and enthuisiatisc about serving his country. In his speech he toild me that he will cone back to serve the country.
He went very early for the interview at eight o’clock morning, waited up to 4 pm. And suddently the ENTIRE GROUP was called in for “interview”. Apparently who will get the scholarship has already been determined. Maybe race quota has been met. He went back awaiting the outcome. He receive his “Dengan dukachita di marlumkan letter” We “regret to inform you” that your application to JBA was not succesful…..
Yes, you are allow an appeal again. So he apply again, and waited, then the “Dukachita letter” comes again. He was so ethusiatic, so idealistic, love his country, ready to serve the nation upon graduation. Needless to say his SPIRIT WAS CRUSH.
I tell you when I spoke to him again, he said, since my parents have to slot by borrowing, mortgage hse etc to sponsor me for my medical studies oversea, I will not come back to serve the goverment. I will continue my post graduate study in Australia. I have to repay my parents for their sacrifices. Since the goverment didnt care for me, why should I return to serve them. Let those who get JBA schorlarship return to serve. I conldnt help but agree with him.
SAD BUT IT IS A TRUE STORY. AN ENTHUSIATIC YOUNG MAN WHO WANT TO SERVE HIS COUNTRY SPIRIT WAS CRUSH.
I wonder how many of them out there….?
Its true, Its true…………..
And for you JBA scholars, stop whinning nad come back to serve the country!!!
Well it is whether you place self interest first or responsibility to Malaysian tax payers, country etc.
If you talk of latter angle the main argument for staying on – that “to obtain further exposure that would make training complete” – is well rebutted by syncbasher83’s observations: ‘Medical achievement is based upon your medical experiences, not based on where you graduated…. medical situations here and abroad are of very much different…they dont have dengue, malaria, tuberculosis etc…and they’ve got alot of fund to do MRI or CT Scan for every patient that doesn’t really need it…they should come back and learn how things working over here without MRI or CT Scan machine in Sabah or Sarawak rural areas….”. From legally and moral perspectives – if you have accepted JPA’s contract upon its terms that you return upon graduation, without continuing training as interns (equivalent of houseman) in UK, that’s it. If you’re not happy with that, don’t accept the scholarship. Can’t have best of all worlds, many others here could not even get privilege of JPA scholarship.
From self interest angle is different. RM160,000 for breaking bond translates to 25,000 pounds so if internship can bring 2000+ pounds per month or 25,000 pounds per year , one can pay off JPA penalty of RM160,000 and don’t come back as Highland said and be a dog of a doctor working 30 hrs ++ non stop, poking yourself with HIV tainted needle due to lack of sleep or crashing your car due to lack of sleep… you can carry on in First World milieu from there……You have defeated and circumvented our system and took advantage of it.
Main argument here against is selfishness and self interest, it is never reconcilable with questions of what is ethical, right or wrong but the question is whether you should pursue self interest – or want to talk of the ethics of the situation.
Serving society loses its force of appeal when society treats you as second class citizens. Let me ask – aren’t those who emigrate also thinking of self interests???
A father says its Ok for children not to return because his children were financed by him and not JPA scholarship. It begs the question that the country afforded opportunities to him to make sufficient money to educate his children.
If you look from ethical angle, right and wrong, service of one’s own community, country, being fair to tax payers, keeping one’s legal bond with JPA, then Frustrated JPA Scholar is wrong.
But what if forget about ethics and look purely from self interest angle, isn’t he right???
If you say young man shouldn’t think of selfishness, self interest, then I got nothing to say.
The question is whether it is true or not true most people would put self interest first, and ethics second….The sad thing in this country is many people lose hope and feel no stake. They say I want to do my part as citizen for the country but does the country treat me as a citizen with equal rights or the other way ask me to go back to China or India????
Under such conditions it is hard for people to think of ethics. You don’t ‘jaga’ and prioritize your self interest, who will here???
As Highland summed up “nobody care of your plights….” just your contributions and payback to society or tax payers so to speak…
Funny, how sponsorships in Malaysia results in “brain drain”, whilst sponsorship in other countries enhances the country’s economy if not 100%, perhaps 50%.
Perhaps, lack of capable policies makers and economists.
Again, perhaps fuelled by the famous “Malaysian brain drain” invisible hand syndrome (like the “invisible hand” by Adam Smith), and also driven or impacted by the past 20 years of corruptions which is non-economic value add and a leakage to the country’s resources and economics. If the country’s economics and financial fundamentals is strong, the above plight may have been better managed or may not have occured.
On the issue of JPA holders returning back to serve their country. Again, if education sponsorship is part of the economic policies to enhance the country’s economy, which I believe it is without having the benefits of full detail analysis of this policy, then JPA or the government should ensure that the economic benefits is realized. Perhaps the various regulations, rules need to be fine tuned is one way to ensure the cost-benefits is bring back to balance.
Again, perhaps the country may need well-qualified and experienced economists or policy makers to look into that. Are there many of these people in the country? Back to the all famous “Malaysian brain drain” syndrome…….
I am struggling to understand the economic objectives the country is trying to achieve…..
“”Till today, I have yet to comprehend the narrow minded policies set by the JPA. JPA seems to fail to understand that by allowing its scholars to stay on for postgraduate training, many will be offered positions in world-renowned healthcare institutions. The exposure and experience gained through these positions would be an invaluable asset to the country and the rakyat in the future.””
This is just a bag of hot air… the good ones that are offered position in world-renowned healthcare institution will NOT return… they become asset to the host nations.
sorry……”….bring back…” should be “…..brought back…” – my fat finger syndrome :)
“pgkia”…. you are a whacko!!!
You said: “I think most of you completely miss the point. The question is why allowed those who married to a fellow JPA/MARA to stay on?
Please do not stray from the point”
Please read the post again instead of making a dumbo of yourself. The writer complained of the following:
“We JPA scholars here have been very frustrated with the JPA enforcing us to immediately return to the country upon graduation, barring us from continuing training as interns (equivalent of houseman) in the countries where we graduated from…… “
To Frustrated,
I cannot and will not judge your intentions, as I do not know your situation clearly. It seems to me from your letter, that you do not intend to return to Malaysia in the foreseeable future (5-10 years), but I could be wrong.
You wrote: ” Also of importance is the availability of funding to do research work in these foreign teaching hospitals, which is significantly lacking in Malaysia. Would it not make Malaysia proud if Malaysian Doctors were publishing their research work in heavy weight journals in the medical world….”
Perception: The pursuit of ‘some’ international recognition will take time, possibly 5-10 years or more. In some cases never.
You wrote: ” further train themselves and one day return as first world specialists who will reform and infuse new uptodate skills in Malaysian Healthcare a few years down the road.”
Perception: “One day” suggests a very far future.
At the end of the day, is it right or wrong? It is based on your moral/ethical compass that you will use. You need to decide on that.
At this forum, we only comment and it is all based on our own perspective of our own coloured glass, which may not fully reflect your situation.
As for me, I have the best of intents to be in Malaysia to contribute to my beloved country. But alas, I contributing to the GDP of another country. While I had my idealism and still have it, the reality of my actions betray my ideals.
Thus my point is this: It one thing to have ideals (in your case, returning to serve in Malaysia) and another to take actions to fulfill those ideals.
You choose the road you take. Take Care.
Jeffrey Says,
A father says its Ok for children not to return because his children were financed by him and not JPA scholarship. It begs the question that the country afforded opportunities to him to make sufficient money to educate his children.
—————————————————————-
Old Man Says:
Maybe you are the beneficiary of the many hand outs project of the government, you have it easy. If you have been in business long enough you will feel the heat of discrimination, that these competent companies are not “qualify” vendor for our projects.
Need I say more? Why do you think that there is a brain drain in our country?
By and large these people are conscientious Tax payer. Isn’t that enough. They slotted long and hard to support their children education that has been denied, because of some quota systems. Some of the beneficiaries of scholarship are not poor people.
Who is so selfless despite all the “beating”, rerturn for more beating.
That is why we vote for a change!
OldManoftheSea, can I just borrow your statement on the ones being denied children’s education……systems.
If the economic objective is to add-value to the country’s economy, the quota system should have a ‘normal distribution’ and not skewed, if the quota system should be in place.
Instead, perhaps, why not create a better selection process for the “creme de la creme”, but the government should not stop there, what about the next best and the next best, the better, the good and the bad…..at this juncture, the social system, the economy system does not seem to have a place for all……..
To digress, that’s part of the reason why “gloating” and “marvelling” of others who have the benefits increase, whilst the poor and needy is shunned….
What is the country’s economic objective, what’s the cost-benefits of these objectives???
Dear Frustrated JBA scholar,
You are lucky you got a scholarship but we know your frustration because you are in a country managed by irresponsible leaders who only think of how to enrich themselves. Suggest you continue the research on your own…join DAP and fight for the rights of the rakyat and help DAP to run the country and make it a better place.
Help DAP to make Malaysia a heaven on earth.
I suggest we should not spend too much time on such people – you accepted a great opportunity at the expense of taxpayers’ funds in excess of RM1 with the agreement that you would return when the course ended as Malaysia is very short of doctors.
Now if you do not wish to return, just agree to pay back. I am sure a doctor will know how to source for loans. Medical grads in Canada and USA borrow to study and end up repaying loans for years.
This topic should be more towards who are the recipients of such JPA awards. I am sure it will include a big section of Malaysia’s Who’s Who.
Allow me to share my 2 sen’s worth.
As I’m sure you’ll all agree, this is a very emotional topic. That being the case, all the more we should focus even harder on dismantling one’s argument with logic and facts, rather than bringing in personal attacks and unreliable anecdotes, which only leaves a bitter taste in everyone’s mouths.
The reason why the government sends scholars overseas is simple: to diversify their human resources as much as possible. In their view, the relative merits of sending a handful of scholars overseas is simply to experience to allow them to experience a different worldview, education system and way of thinking, in the hope that they absorb new and interesting forms of technological developments and mindsights which will invariably be different, and beneficial, to our country.
Why shouldn’t the government stop sending scholars overseas and instead train more students locally? Simple – because such a strategy would be tantamount to putting all of our eggs in one basket. This can also probably explain why the government still bothers sending specialists overseas for training as well, instead of just shuttling them through the classic UM, UKM and USM workhouses.
It’s true, the medical environment in say the UK isn’t as infested with TB, malaria and typhus as in Malaysia – but similarly, no where else in the world can one be as adequately equipped to fight cancer, diabetes and other similar disorders. Surely, we Malaysians need doctors to be able to handle all types of situations.
Since overseas scholars are entrusted with the duty of bringing back as much new knowledge as they can, isn’t it silly if we stop one from being able to continue amassing knowlege up to specialist, or even subspecialist level? The country is short of doctors no doubt, but we are facing an even more acute shortage of specialists, let alone subspecialists.
Even if you don’t agree with what I’ve written so far, consider this – for every scholar we allow to specialise overseas, we free up another valuable specialist training slot for our own students at home; demand massively outstrips supply for specialist training posts in Malaysia. Isn’t that, in itself, warrant further consideration?
If one’s concern is to ensure these scholars come back, the answer is simple – focus on execution. The burden should lie on JPA to ensure these scholars come back, whether they be general doctors or specialists. The hard truth is this, without proper surveillance and execution, errant scholars won’t come back anyway – and they don’t need to be specialists to make that choice.
Our healthcare system needs doctors, yes. But more importantly, we also need people who will not just pass through the system, but reform it. We need forward thinkers and reformers with new ideas – and one step in that direction is to have as many broadly-trained, different minded specialists as possible.
I believe in Frustrated JPA scholar’s desire to help the nation, and I also believe an internationally-trained specialist is worth much more to our country than just an internationally-trained houseman. Do whatever you want to ensure he comes back at the end, put in place a functional surveillance mechanism, but don’t deny forward-thinking people like him their dream of helping Malaysia as best as they can.
i suggest u become a politician then u can swindle all the money
abuse all the power
can have dvd video also
instead of becoming a dogtor……….
This is getting confusing.
In the previous discussions on eye specialists and what not, there are doctors dying to return. I am not sure exactly why they want to return so badly.
Now, we have JPA scholars refusing to return immediately after getting their medical degrees.
If you were given a JPA scholarship, or any other scholarship that requires you to return to serve your contract, then you have to return.
It is not fair to the many non-Malay students whose families have to suffer and sacrifice financially just to support their studies overseas without govt support.
You cannot find sympathy from people like me who have to slog through graduate schools on our own because our families have no means to support us. But I got through, thanks to the govt overseas, not the Malaysian govt.
I remember my days in London when I got to eat fish and chips only once a week after getting my weekly pay on Saturdays. That was rent and pocket money that I got by working illegally. That fish and chips tasted delicious because that was the only luxury I could afford. That is why I will never go back to London because of the hardship that I had to go through living there as a student.
I get to where I am now without a sen from the Malaysian govt.
Nowadays we hear of JPA students with cars and living allowances, and a string of family members to tag along if needed, with regular vacation travels to boot, all courtesy of the Malaysian govt.
So, in a sense, I sympathise with Richard Teo’s comment about encouraging his children to stay overseas because the Malaysian govt did not support them. They have the rights to live better in another country.
oooooo….i’m sure humans have that capability, “that dark side” :) better not goad them into doing that…… ;)
Firstly to syncbasher83,you certainly sound like a sore loser just because your jpa scholarship only covered your medical education locally and not abroad.Taking that into consideration,you should count yourself lucky because based on your posts its pretty obvious that you are not competent enough to even yoke together simple words to form a sentence without glaring grammatical errors.This is appaling for a soon to be “homegrown” Dr.
With regards to the Irish trained houseman who was not able to start an IV,this could have cropped up because in UK,Australia,ireland,USA Canada the old canulas have been phased out and are replaced by new ones with special protective mechanisms in place to reduce the number of needle stick injuries.
So its a matter of getting used to it.Not a big deal.
Starting IV’s on normal healthy patients is not a big deal but i’ve seen the occasional patient who presents with kinky veins and hence in such circumstances this is not an easy task.
You should also take not that in the developed nations students and residents are not allowed to attempt starting an IV more than once.And if you are unsuccesful at the first attempt ,usually the specialist or Nurse practitioner will be handling it. You definitely get more hands on practice in this sense in Malaysia because students and housemans get to “poke” the patients as many times as they possibly could UNTILL they are successful.But at the end of the day the trauma caused to the patient might lead to more complications .My point is in malaysia you get more “practice” at the expense of the poor unsuspecting patient.Is this ethical?
Soon Malaysians will realise that are not short of doctors but we’re short of qualified family physicians to provide quality first line care and specialists to deal with more complicated health issues.A newly qualified doctor without adequate training isnt of much use.The Malaysian Government certainly has got a very myopic view when it comes to dealing with this subject.Also with the arrival of a large number of immigrants to these countries,we are exposed to various diseases which were previously fairly uncommon in these countries.
If you say TB is not common in the UK,you medical knowledge is questionable.HIV is everywhere and so is TB.(if u are a med student
you should know why)
Also Our dear blog reader syncbasher implied that CT’s and MRI’s are being done even when its not warranted for.DO you really think that the Doctors here are so stupid that they need a CT or MRI to make a diagnosis for every other patient?Why dont you try asking for one “for fun” and see if they are going to give in to your demands?What about the doctors in Malaysia prescribing antibiotics to every patient even if they suffer from a viral infection? Btw im self funded so im not using up any of you taxpayer’s money.Dont worry.Im just trying to get my point across here because on many occasions those locally trained doctors think they are superior to the rest and on many occasions we’re subjected to a lot of flak by them.STPM CGPA 4.0 doesnt make you a superior doctor by any means.GET THAT!
Ingrates, these scholarship holders. They think taxpayers owe them an education overseas. Ask your father to pay for your studies abroad, then you can do what you like.
Come back to serve the country u will hv your on job training in the local hospitals and read your contract of agreement with JPA whether the contract is violated to your wish, otherwise Pulang ke Malaysia lah !
///Maybe you are the beneficiary of the many hand outs project of the government, you have it easy/// – OldManoftheSea
I did not have any handouts. I had to work my guts out. They have the handouts but they can’t do the job. I do it and give value add. Because of that I get my 70% and they get their 30%. Yes I didn’t feel the heat of discrimination because they cornered the market. But I can’t earn my 70% unless I did a good job for them. With many 70%(s) I have no problem in giving 30% to them! However I still got to deliver the best work/service or product – there is no hand-out for me, neither do we need it since they need us (the ones who do the real production properly) more than we need them. Is that a problem? :)
my friend it is really about not wanting you to gain that exposure or overseas experience……………..it is of everyone’s knowledge that the first world countries are poaching on the brains with PR visa so as to reverse the INVERTED AGE PYRAMID SYNDROME- all the baby boomers are ageing in most countries the phenomena is a small young population base is supporting an increasing old population.
JPA fears that they will lose those brains which they have invested on to foreign countries
KABISH?
.OOPS!….not about not wanting………
I think there are lots of baloneys in this argument. First you should be thankful you are given a JPA scholarship to study medicine abroad. Second, you are expected to serve when you complete your study. Third, when you want to do specialist course, you can always do later. Right now, you serve first. I think JPA has been too lenient in the past to let off scholars from national service. We like to criticise the government here and there, but please touch your heart. I think you are one of the most selfish guys around. Try getting a scholarship from the Singapore Government and escaping bond. They will seek you to your grave.
uh huh, be it what ever reasons that’s causing them not wanting to come back or preventing them from coming back, it is not just perhaps the flaw of the individuals, it can be viewed that there are flaws in the policies, the government, the implementation. Perhaps the cost-benefits analysis needs to be redo to Improve……..
When my daughter was in IMU, she had a classmate who was on a scholarship from JPA or some other government body.
This person was actually doing it the second time around. Was sent to UK but could not cope and had to return and start all over via the IMU route.
Makes you wonder about the selection process to spend taxpayers’ monies!
The government should order these people to return post haste. Of course many get married while on scholarship (against the rules?) and their spouses also start another course to complicate the issue.
But to me the fundamentals remain – you take a scholarship with specifice terms, please be prepared to honour those terms; unless the sponsor agrees to let you go. Then it should account to the taxpayers’ that provided the funds.
Can I also add please that it is true the individual should have the responsibilities and INTEGRITY to honor the contract, but there are individuals who avoid doing so. Unfortunately, I have friends (please don’t include me, I’m fully funded by my papa) who of course went home, avoided paying despite the many reminder letters and went scoot free. The policies need to be reviewed and better implementation is required to enhance the economy and not to drain the economy – to make sure the perpetrators honor their side of the contracts.
talk about jpa……. now i have few candidate sitting in my clinic. n your guess is as good as mind………
hmmmm…..perhaps, direct debit from the scholars’ salary account ensuring they and their supporting families have sufficient to survive on, and provided they go back and work in Malaysia, and this is further monitored by the tax department. Again, will the ruling government pursue such changes…..????
It is stupid not to come back as early as possible after obtaining your basic medical degree. Don’t think that you are a better doctor than the local graduates. Even the hospital attendent is better than you. You will not be able to treat diseases found only tropical and under developed countries like M’sia. Over there, they will not teach how to manage a patient with minimal resourses available. M’sia is difference from Ireland.
So, come back fast and start familarising yourself with the patients, enviroment and disease only found in M’sia before you get rotten in western country.
After honouring your contract and paying us back in term of basic services only then you can use your own money to further you study and become the “world Class” specialist. Nobody will question you after that!
Another selfish JPA scholar. Why the government still needs to sponsor oversea scholarship if they claim they have successfully managed the country(including the education) for these 50 years and yet they still dont have the capability to train medical professional locally? They should instead save these oversea scholarship money and put them into upgrading the local university and attract the really-good lecturers/researchers into the country.
Reading your plight I understand from your end the need to do housemanship training upon graduation from a UK university. I have a cousin who was also on a JPA scholarship but decided to stay behind in the UK after the completion of his studies to do his housemanship training on the grounds that the housemanship training back in Malaysia is ‘not up to the grade’.
However I can also see where the Malaysian government is coming from. My cousin upon completion of his studies stayed behind to do his housemanship and believe me, had no intentions to return home at all to serve the country. Of course when he did not return the Malaysian government ‘chased’ him all the way to the UK with threats of blacklisting him unless he repaid all monies back to the government. He’s no choice now but to repay back all the monies and is doing it now on a monthy basis.
When I heard of his intention of staying behind in the UK my first impression was that he was a selfish a**hole. The ‘scholarship’ from JPA is from the tax payers pockets and for people like me who have no assistance and have to slog to get a degree I find that very selfish to get a scholarship and leave the country when it does not suit them.
So you will have to understand why the Malaysian government is insisting that all its scholarship holders return upon completion of studies. You may have good intentions of returning home after a housemanship training in the UK but that remains to be seen, as in the good example of my cousin. At least you don’t get bonded by the Malaysian government upon graduation of your studies. If you got a scholarship from the Singapore government they will bond you and it is a well-known fact. So try to understand from the Malaysian government’s point of view.
At the same time the system is ‘flawed’. This is where, with the dawn of the opposition ruling, that people like you and me should voice out concerns, issues and suggestions to improve the system.
Ideally a scholarship should be just that – a scholarship. It is a prize or aid to a student based on merit etc. It should not be viewed as a direct investment where the receipient has to return in-kind or return the money with interest.
Expecting gratefulness/gratitude should not be part of the scholarship. If the receipient feels indebted and wants to return to society, great. No cohesion should be required. If the govt treats the receipients well then chances are that they will return willingly and serve willingly. If the environment is attractive enough, then the govt and the tax payers should have more confidence that the receipients will return. “Frustrated JPA scholar” is not going to feel grateful just because you and/or the govt said so.
The “ball and chain” technique is the only method if the govt cannot create a competitive environment.
“Ideally a scholarship should be just that – a scholarship. It is a prize or aid to a student based on merit etc. It should not be viewed as a direct investment where the receipient has to return in-kind or return the money with interest”
CTO,
that depends on the terms and conditions of the scholarship. Terms and conditions of World Bank scholarship may defer from that of a Rhodes scholarship. Likewise the same can be applied to a JPA and a Singapore government scholarship.
quote: “The officer in charge went in a rage and accused the people who wanted to stay as ‘just wanting to earn money’. I could not believe the narrow mindedness behind these words. For one, what is wrong with earning money?”
memang salute him/her. …. this bloke surely feels he/she owes nothing to the country, it’s country “duty” to pay for his education if he/she is a high achiever, period.
quote: “Finally, I would like to stress that all JPA scholars love their country, and would love to return to serve.”
that’s what most undergraduate (me too, i like to contribute to society with my knowledge, bla bla), first time mp/dun will say too, but at the end ……
Closing all doors ie. stop sending students abroad is a no go either. It can take years and years to upgrade and bring the standards of education at both primary, secondary and up to university, to an acceptable level. In the mean time, this may create a negative sentiment amongst investors esp MNCs which concentrates on overseas degrees and exposures to continue to opt for Malaysia as a preferred investment destination (ie. difficult for Malaysia to retain its competitive edge as a country with skilled, qualified labour and one that speaks the English language too, and of course CHEAP). And even if these MNCs continue to stay on (due to other attractions) despite the shortage of qualified labour within the country by importing “expatriates” and utilising locals for the less qualified jobs, the nation only won part of the battle as the “brain drain” syndrome is still not addressed.
I am a JPA medicine scholar in Australia. I would just like to raise a few points here:
1. Legally and ethically, this particular JPA scholar has no case to make of JPA’s “unfairness” – you put your lovely signature in that contract some years ago, and JPA is only exercising their right to get you home immediately upon your graduation. Yes there might have been some unfair clauses in that contract, e.g. “JPA has the right to terminate the scholarship at any time at their discretion (euphemism for “without giving any reason”)”. However, you agreed to those “unfair clauses” in the first place. You took up JPA scholarship, so you should be responsible for your decision.
2. In many ways, JPA scholarship has indeed been a waste of the tax-payer’s money. Yes I am saying it as a scholar myself. As has been mentioned by many commentators before me, there are not many deserving scholars in the first place (straight A1 students are a dime a dozen today); and a lot of “scholars” barely pass their exams when they are overseas. But JPA don’t even care about the performance of their million-dollar students – a pass is enough to make JPA continue debiting 3600 dollars three-monthly to a struggling student. They are also happy enough to continue sponsoring students who failed their exams and needed to redo the whole semester.
And the worse thing is, many of those scholars don’t even go home, and many don’t pay back a single cent. When we are lamenting the 4.2 billion PKFZ bailout incident, don’t forget those JPA students who took with them almost 1 million ringgit each.
Hence, in my humble opinion, JPA scholarship for undergraduate studies should be scrapped and the money be channeled to improving the local universities. Or at the very least, sponsor only outstanding students for postgraduate studies, and a handful of creme de la creme undergraduate students. And make sure they perform. And make sure they come home instead of letting them go so easily.
If this can’t be done, JPA scholarship is only a waste of money worse than those spent in Angkawasan project.
3. However, I must say that should JPA be more far-sighted, they should have instituted some flexibility in their regulation, regarding the possibility of their scholars pursuing further education overseas.
After reading all the comments here carefully, I found that a general sentiment of the unhappy / disgusted people here is along the line of “hey we tax payers sponsored you one million already, why are you so ungrateful as to dreaming of earning British Pound / want to become a specialist and escape altogether ten years later / forget the poor people who need your service in East / poor areas of Malaysia!!!”
I must concur that there’s a possibility that this frustrated JPA scholar is using all those fancy rhetorics as a pretext of the actual agenda i.e. to dishonour the contract, and take advantage of the tax payers’ money to enjoy luxurious life in UK. If that is the case (and indeed have been the case for many JPA medicine scholars in the past and present), all defense in the world will not justify the betrayal act, and we shall save time debating about this at all. And indeed, if we have known earlier of his heinous agenda, he wouldn’t have deserved the money in the first place.
But haven’t you guys spared a thought of, what if, WHAT IF, this JPA scholar and some others thinking of the same issue, are genuinely looking at only continuing as intern / furthering their studies for a couple of years, and then go back with even more credential and exposure?
To begin with, it’s important for people to realise that internship is not just the fancy name of “a fresh doctor’s orientation to the real world”; it is an essential part of medical training. After five years of theoretical lectures and shadowing other doctors, internship is the period when a hesitant medical student learn to deal with real cases with real responsibilities in real life. A lot of knowledge continues to be gained during internship years.
Yes we can very well argue that “we can also provide housemanship / internship training for you!”. Or, “See, go enjoy your luxurious life in UK instead of coming back to serve the poor as a houseman”.
But that beckons the question of, why did we have overseas JPA scholarship to begin with? So that we have more doctors? So that we have doctors with nicer sounding titles like “MBBS (Monash)”?
No! We want to train some bright students overseas because we look forward to them bringing back the expertise, attitude and technology from overseas. Not because we “need more doctors”. If the number of doctors is the top priority, we would have helped breed even more medical colleges in Malaysia instead of spending millions overseas.You get lots more doctors this way.
So now say we have a student genuinely wanting to stay overseas to gain even more knowledge to help the country, why must we stunt the bright student’s professional development based on principle and on our prior bad experience of defecting JPA scholars? Yes we have a very solid ground to suspect the possibility of defection, but instead of forcing unwilling students to come home while whiling away their potentials, shouldn’t we look at ensuring stringent enforcement of contract by the government instead?
Many argue that “aiyarr you should come home and learn how Malaysian health systems work, go learn all those canggih medical system and equipment that is unavailable here for what?!”. So are you saying that, we should be happy to spend millions of ringgit for the students to spend honeymoon during their overseas “high-tech” experience; but after that, instead of bringing home the better things, they should really just pander to our system while bringing nothing home? Then why don’t we just build more medical colleges in Malaysia?
This is what we should think regarding this issue before casting our insults to all JPA scholars like knee-jerk reactions. JPA should really consider what our money is worth.
4. Syncbasher83, while you raised some valid points, your comments smack of unfair generalisation. Surely not all foreign medical students are better than local ones, but the way you quoted biased personal anecdotes regarding overseas graduates is utterly unfair. Also, read Riha’s reply for some of your naive arguments for overseas graduates’ incompetence. You would surely disagree if one quotes your comments and generalise on local medical students’ lack of competency in English, wouldn’t you?
5. There are many sob stories regarding how lucky he is compared to the unfortunate students, but this is largely irrelevant to our discussion. Just because you are unlucky, doesn’t mean that the lucky ones do not have the right to pursue professional development and bring back more expertise from overseas.
Note that all my points above are assuming that the letter author has genuine intentions.
sunnybunny Says:
Today at 13: 37.20 (30 minutes ago)
“Ideally a scholarship should be just that – a scholarship. It is a prize or aid to a student based on merit etc. It should not be viewed as a direct investment where the receipient has to return in-kind or return the money with interest”
CTO,
that depends on the terms and conditions of the scholarship. Terms and conditions of World Bank scholarship may defer from that of a Rhodes scholarship. Likewise the same can be applied to a JPA and a Singapore government scholarship.
————————-
True – terms and conditions may be stipulated. For whatever terms and conditions stipulated, we can still call it a scholarship. It certanly sounds better than a “contract”.
cto says: Ideally a scholarship should be just that – a scholarship. It is a prize or aid to a student based on merit etc. It should not be viewed as a direct investment where the receipient has to return in-kind or return the money with interest.
Then you better look for merit scholarships that have no bond. Nobody compelled you to take a bond scholarship and only to complain later. Sometimes we can’t see our own biasness and selfishness.
limkamput Says:
Today at 14: 25.47 (22 minutes ago)
cto says: Ideally a scholarship should be just that – a scholarship. It is a prize or aid to a student based on merit etc. It should not be viewed as a direct investment where the receipient has to return in-kind or return the money with interest.
Then you better look for merit scholarships that have no bond. Nobody compelled you to take a bond scholarship and only to complain later. Sometimes we can’t see our own biasness and selfishness
———————————
Perhaps it is true that “frustrated JPA scholar” should not have taken up the scholarship. However, just because s/he accepted the scholarship and its term does not mean that s/he should not point out his/her concerns and the deficiencies of the system. If the authorities take in the points raised and improve the system, it is a good thing.
Furthermore, I think that “frustrated JPA scholar” has every right to complain if it is indeed true that the authorities changed the penalty clause to favour the government midway thru’ his/her studies without even a prior warning.
1) Please consider very carefully before you accept JPA scholarship, this is taxpayers’ monies..
2) Will you really return and serve the country after completed your post-graduate? Will you really honour the bonds?
When you sign up for a scholarship, especially medicine, you must know what you are in for. Knowing that the country is ver short of doctors, definitely we want you back in the shortest time possible. At least with the basic degree, the doctors can serve in Sabah or Sarawak to help the poor. After you have given back your due, by all means go back and specialise.
Didn’t this scholar read about a top student in Johore whose ambition was to be a doctor. But due to family financially problem, this boy opted to do a lesser course and workd part time to help out his siblings. In ths way, the need of the family is more important than his own ambition.
Similarly, the Malaysian ‘family’ needs this doctor very badly. He should not be that selfish to go on in overseas and denying the more needy citizens of medical treatment.
Stop whining !!!!
To all the posters who think that the writer is not thankful for taxpayers money, does not want to come home forever after being overseas, I am sorry but you are totally clueless.
Please grow up and look beyond the superficial. You have no intention of understanding, you just want to judge.
The writer has some valid points. Basically telling the writer to come home, serve your bond and then you can do what you want after that is the easy thing to say, except the bond is long and human beings don’t live till 150 years old, life is short.
I have also heard from our local medical students that they are expecting a boom in the number of doctors soon, so it does make sense to let some students stay overseas and make use of their excellent opportunities.
And what is it with the taxpayers idea of come home as soon as possible? Do you think the country will be better served by a disgruntled houseman or a specialist further down the line?
I am sure anyone in that position will want to improve his/her life, should the chance come. The problem is not the writer’s loyalty. It’s making our country more attractive to work in.
“We JPA scholars here have been very frustrated with the JPA enforcing us to immediately return to the country upon graduation, barring us from continuing training as interns (equivalent of houseman) …”
As if this is not clear enough one smart ass has to call the argument baloney, when the only baloney we get to read is from him!
“I think there are lots of baloneys in this argument. First you should be thankful you are given a JPA scholarship to study medicine abroad. Second, you are expected to serve when you complete your study. Third, when you want to do specialist course, you can always do later.” limkamput
Again he could not rise above his Kg. Attap education to see that nowhere does this JPA scholar said he wanted to do a “specialist course” – but only to be able to continue with housemanship which is part of the course he was sent to do.
If you have given your word by agreeing to return as per scholarship terms what is the use of complaining?
Trying to have your cake and eating it! Those who do not honour their bonds are cheats and really do not deserve to become doctors.
Richard Teo , I agree wholeheartedly with you !
I’m a medical student studying in Russia on a FAMA scholarship too.
Morgan , do you really think my parents are rich and well off as you alleged ?
‘only people from rich background who are fortunate enough to have daddy like you whom can afford to send 4 children oversea on Medical degree are allowed to pursue their oversea happiness’
Nay , my parents are not well-off but it is due to persistence that I’m here . I find it rather unfair that you assume that private medical students abroad all have ‘rich daddies’ . Where I study , I can assure you that most of the private students ( non scholars ) come from middle-class backgrouds but their results are excellent . We do not get the chance to go to places like Ireland or the UK to study medicine simply because we cannot afford it ! Most of us are deserving of a scholarship through merit but I guess the distribution of scholarships is rather unfair .
Which is why I agree with Richard that those scholars lucky enough to get sponsorship should return ASAP after graduating , no ifs and buts . We are the intellectual property of our country but if our country does not appreciate us , why should we come back and serve ? I’m not saying that those who got scholarships are unworthy of them , but it’s rather well-known that some of the well-off DO get full scholarships isn’t it ? This country does not deserve me .
Life here is not easy . Sure , I’d have loved the chance to go to study somewhere in Ireland like this grouser here who goes on and on about how seemingly ‘unfair’ this is to the scholars but I’d just like to say : Shut it , and return to serve as you have promised . You took the taxpayer’s money and it’s time they get a return of their investment .
Lady godiva,
Who is whining?I paid hard cash for my children’s education abroad. Why should I be grateful to the govt?Dont I have the right to tell them not to return?After all our country is a sinking ship.So why not abandon it now or provide an avenue to abandon later.
OldManoftheSea , exactly my sentiments !
Lady godiva,
For a woman if you are one, you have some problem with your attitude. You seems to have some delight in running down people like Limkamput. What;s your problem lady?PMS problem ahh?
A viewpoint from a medical student under JPA in Australia. I posted a comment five hours ago but it was withheld for moderation so you may have missed it. Do scroll back one or two pages if you were to view my two cents. Thanks.
This JPA scholar served out his term and went on till retirement, after 23 yrs of service from East to West.
Sdr Lim, champion the right people…..poor, needy, orphans, widows, underprivilege, village folks….of ALL MALAYSIAN races….truly practice the philosophy you have been supporting…..a Malaysian Malaysia.
“What;s your problem lady?PMS problem ahh?” Richrad Teo
You are a lot worse than the ‘bocor’ MPs we hear condemned all the time on this blog. Don’t feminists have a name for the likes of you that would be insulting even to pigs??
Morgan,
You think its very easy to send four kids to overseas for studies?I had to withdraw all my savings in EPF which was for retirement, had to mortgage my house ,had to borrow from friends and bank to finance their studies. At the end of the day can’t I decide what they should do with their lives?I would have been immensely grateful if only one or two of my kids had a JPA scholarship but despite scoring 13As none of them got a whiff of any scholarships.Dont you think I have a right to be bitter?Morgan and Lady Godiva must be living in another planet to think that I should be grateful to the govt.
Lady Godiva,
That comment was specifically directed at you because you seems to display that tendency.Your comments have all been sacarstic and vitriolic as if you have some behaviorial problem.Just go thru your own comments and see if there is anything complimentary about your comments.By the way do you regard PMS as derogatory?You are wrong, Lady, its a phase quite common for woman after attaining a certain age.Nothing derogatory about that,unless you choose to exempt yourself from that phase.
YB Lim,
In Australia as soon as you have a tax file, they deduct what you owe the government for educating you in the university.
In Malaysia I hear they are having difficulty in getting back the loans given to students.
Can’t we follow Australia’s method in the deduction? Appreciate if you could raise this in Parliament.
chill…….
intermission newsbreak: not sure where the lady/ gent who drops in with the news of the day, perhaps, some news from the tennis world:
Roger Federer lost in the Semi-F, Djokobiv won the Finals at Indian Wells……
“You are wrong, Lady, its a phase quite common for woman after attaining a certain age.Nothing derogatory…” limkamput
Why then do you raise the connection between what is biological to attitude unless you think you are superior because you are not burdened by it?? What do they say about people who indulge in mental gymnastics only to be caught with their heads up their asses?
ooops that was meant for wise ass Richard Teo and not to my old friend from Kg Attap.
Lady Godiva,
Just to refresh your memory, you called Limkamput smart ass and his kampong attap education but take umbrage when I remark that you may have PMS.How contradictory.Just stop calling the kettle black.You deserve what you get and dont hide behind that skirt of yours,lady.
oops, like the pot calling the kettle black
Who say burdened by it? You said it not me. Isaid it is just a normal phase and that explains your erractic behaviour.Any way why should it be a burden? Its a normal phase woman go thru. nothing to be ashame about.
William85,
Good comment from you. But you have given a wrong diagnosis and differential diagnosis on Frustrated’s intention. Frustrated’s wish to stay on after graduation (by right he should return to serve) to continue his training and further his study has caused the tax payers to blow their mind to the point of impending stroke.
Glad to hear that Frustrated intents to further his studies. Nobody is preventing him from gaining that experience. But he is obliged to serve the tax payers after graduation as stipulated in JPA contract no matter what his future intention is. Frustrated has no other choice. Call it complications or side effects of signing a JPA contract. This is no remedy now. Let nature takes its course.
Upon completion of the required service, Frustrated can do whatever he wants to do and the prognosis is still good for himself and the country. Furthemore, he or she is still young after all.
The fact that Frustrated wish to stay back is an ill-intention enough and tax payers will definately felt betrayed.
Richard,
ladygorilla is actually darkhorse @ kickbutt @ blackeye @ bodo @ diaperhead @ colonel @ dracula etc. Now he also wants to become she. I tell you Richard, this fellow, some mornings he wakes up man, some mornings she wakes up woman, and some mornings he/she wakes up in between. I suggest you leave him/her alone. He/she is a frustrated person. He/she even try to impersonate me and Jong in other blogs. The other day, he/she tried to make a pass on Jong and Jenny and the moderator even had to delete his/her posting. Pathetic pathetic pathetic!!!!!!
LadyGodiva Says: ooops that was meant for wise ass Richard Teo and not to my old friend from Kg Attap.
Why, feeling lonely and missing me is it. I got no time for you. I got better companies.
Ladygorilla, I suggest you go read again whether this JPA scholar has harbored ambition to do a specialist course. Look, there is no doubt in my mind at all this fellow want a free ride. He wants to do houseman there so that he can practise there and refuse to serve the bond. Come on, you are not as magnanimous as you think. YOU are supportive of him because you have the same value system as him – trying to have free lunches. There is no such thing, go ask Lee Kuan Yew. Everybody must take responsibility, not just the government.
Baoqingtian, if you noticed, I actually agreed with your whole point here, i.e. Frustrated SHOULD come home regardless of his noble intentions (assuming that it’s genuine). The reason being that he agreed to the terms in the contract, as I elaborated in my point 1.
My point 3 does not apply for Frustrated in particular. It is mainly to call for flexibility from JPA in its future policies if they were to get the most out of their investment.
I shall give an example of JPA’s inflexibility in another context. In Australia, medical courses in most universities are 6 years in duration except Monash which is only 5 years. The difference stems from the fact that all universities have a compulsory one-year research period during which students engage in biomedical research full time; but Monash makes it optional instead of compulsory. This research year is usually done on the 3rd year, i.e. in the middle of the whole medical course.
There are some people in Monash who expressed interest in doing this optional research year, but their applications were all declined by JPA officials with the reason of “it’s not in your contract”. While I understand JPA refusing to pay more than their initial budget in those individual students; one can’t help but to lament that JPA does not fully cherish the spirit of self-starting students who wish to improve their credentials and exposure via engaging in biomedical research.
In this particular case, there’s no concern about defection at all because the research year is done in the third year.
One more thing, go read the posting by william85, a medical JPA scholar himself. See I don’t have to read to know exactly what some of these JPA scholars are up to. They are a bunch of ungrateful asses.
@limkamput
Your comment is so unwarranted. For the points you do not agree with, kindly retort them in clear terms.
You had just committed ad-hominem attack. A generalised one at that. It sure doesn’t help with your cause.
“What;s your problem lady?PMS problem ahh?” Richrad Teo
You are a lot worse than the ‘bocor’ MPs we hear condemned all the time on this blog. Don’t feminists have a name for the likes of you that would be insulting even to pigs??
And william85,
Expecting limkamput to talk in clear terms is like asking Richard Teo to take his head out of his ass!
Morgan Lovell and undergrad2, whatever you fellows said has no theoretical underpinning and was based on your own personal experience. For every one first class you said is too academic or not a team player, I can find two that are better than any one you can find. I think we must know when we are making a general observation and when we are stating an exception.
Ok. William, this much I can go. Most of them, if not all, are ungrateful asses. Those who came back to serve are those who got nowhere else to go. Those that are highly demanded will try ways and means to escape the bond. It is a fact, check it out.
In reply to the message by Richard Teo at 00: 32.28:
Richard,
Don’t you feel it is arrogant, that you are offering no negotiation or empathy to the writer? You have done well by putting your children abroad by your own sweat. You tell them, do not come back to the country. However, you expect others to do otherwise, not knowing how their background is. Some people might not have such a fortunate scenario as your children. For them, the JPA scholarship, however imperfect, is the ticket to a better education. Now that they are overseas, other possibilities come up to improve their lives. The writer just wants a chance to pursue these things. If the writer does not love his country, he/she would not have bothered to ask if something can be done, that both benefits the scholar and the country.
Partly true; but what has that got to do with your alluding me based on my comment?
hello, william85, i am actually supportive of you. basing on what you wrote, i thought you are a few who may want to honour your contract with the nation. I think you misunderstood me. I read your earlier posting after you reminded us to read and i thought i share similar view with you.
signandsight Says:
“For them, the JPA scholarship, however imperfect, is the ticket to a better education. Now that they are overseas, other possibilities come up to improve their lives. ”
Hello, the argument here is to come back to serve first. The government has already opened the door for him to graduate with a medical degree from abraod. Serve your bond first, and later he/she may pursue specialist course. I think no one is stopping him/her from doing that. You must think of the need of the government, the tax payers and the shortage of doctors in this country. Even countries richer than us like Singapore for example ties down their scholars.
ladygorilla @ pms, i think by now most bloggers know you have no idea other than throwing insults. I have challenged you earlier to write me three paragraphs to debate on. Till now i have not seen one line other than insults. What have you got?
I think you should just count your blessings and pray that you will score first class and complete the process as what others have said. You have signed the contract and please don’t break it. Otherwise you will be one of the many who has done it before – Breaking their promises. As a doctor, your profession is at stake. You want other people to trust you. How are you going to allow other people to trust you if you don’t earn their respect? I would suggest that you remain calm and get on with what you need to do. By the way, good luck to you.
Coming from a single parent household, my mother struggled to put food on the table as me and my brother was growing up. Neither am I a JPA scholar nor a graduate of any Uni, just someone who has a younger brother who was offered a JPA scholarship back when JPA first started sending SPM holders overseas for Pharmaceutical studies but they had to first do their Form 6 (Lower & Upper) in the UK.
This was the scenario back in the early 90s: no JPA scholarship for Medical studies (someone had this bright idea to send bright individuals to study Pharmacy). 100 5th formers left Malaysia to continue their studies under JPA scholarship to UK & US. After the first year of Form 6, only a handful remained overseas. Ahh… the cream of the crop. I know each and everyone of my brother’s scholarship friends who finally graduated with my brother and HE’s a chap from Negri Sembilan. So the Government sent 50 to UK and only 2 graduated. What went wrong? Mind you, both my brother and this other chap didn’t even pursue Pharmacy as previously planned by JPA (they both wrote countless letters to JPA and informed JPA authorities at every juncture but still only received allowances for their initial study plan). Up till today, both of them have steered cleared of bread for some reason.
Upon completion of his Medical studies, he DID request to be given an opportunity to serve the Government but they couldn’t find a place for him (?); why? Because JPA has him listed as a Pharmacy student! So he signed up for some medical mission to some East African nation for 6 months.
Back to the present, he’s finally completing his Pediatric specialist course at his own expense whilst working as a Registrar in a UK hospital and he’s still looking forward to serving the country.
Do you think this time round MoH will be able to place him?
I am surprised at the reactions of so many people on a complaint of a scholarship holder who,notwithstanding, would continue his study and most probably would never come back if he could find a way. Anyway, by not coming back, I am quite sure JPA coiuld not get him to repay. JPA is that efficient! It looks like studying medicine is a craze amongst many parents, some of whom mati-mati pun mahu belajar medicine. I say mati-mati because, their results are below ‘par’. By having to spend a near million to do this course, I wonder ,the bloke will ever earn back the compounded interests accumulated. In today’s market ,there ‘general’ practitioners who tried hard to earn 10k a month, there are many professions that do not require that kind of investment to earn such figures!. Of course if you are in love with medicine, come what may, do it! if you are in for the money and the so-called prestige, forget about it; as more and more people are learning to keep healthy by using more traditional medication.
Yohohoho, I understand this guy’s situation, he wishes to gain experience and expertise from the medical field there.
But sadly, the ultimate drive behind all this is money. Initially, they may ooh and ahh, yes, they’ll benefit working overseas and may always think “can’t wait to go back to M’sia to share these and improve the medical field”, but later, whenever they contact their frens here in M’sia, they’ll see their frens’ miserable life trying to make ends meet thnx to Barang Naik gahmen. 90% will fail to go back to M’sia cuz they’re oredi in the comfort zone, heck, I know of a M’sian specialist getting paid 5000 euro for his 1st paycheck, can you find such specialist paid that well here? There, they can enjoy buying BMW and Mercedes for a much, much cheaper price tag, while here, people need to take 9-yr loan for just a Proton/Perodua. Are they to blame for refusing to come back and serve M’sia?
IMHO, the gahmen need to improve our medical field to make their transition back here a painless affair.
IMHO, the ‘gahmen’ needs to improve on a lot of fronts; not just their ‘JPA’ policies. That’s why we (well most of us) voted for change. Slightly out of topic, look at how the ‘gahmen’ of today (23rd March) is shaping out. Can’t even decide on rightful MB, oh we shook the tree didn’t we?
Back to the letter at hand (by Frustrated JPA Scholar), read your contract properly, scan the fine print; does it say Bonded to the Establishment, if yes come home do your ‘time’ then go do whatever else you want to do. If it says you have to re-pay the loan then pay it and then shut-up. By repaying the loan, JPA can again foolishly sponsor another like-minded scholar in your wake, as did JPA after they received my cheque for my brother’s scholarship! And I didn’t even get a ‘Terima Kasih’ from them. All I got was a letter that said “Jelaskan biasiswa Rujukan # xxxxxxx dalam 60 hari atau tindakan mahkamah akan diambil” and the letter was dated 21 days prior to my finding it in my letter box! So at least Frustrated JPA Scholar, you have yet to endure the sudden ‘Tindakan mahkamah’ love letter from JPA to understand the full extent of the scholarship.
I think it will become more difficult for Malaysian doctors to continue in the UK after graduating as EU laws are being tightened to give preference to Europeans – so better not hope you will be allowed to stay from next year onwards.
limkamput Says:
Yesterday at 23: 03.04
Ok. William, this much I can go. Most of them, if not all, are ungrateful asses. Those who came back to serve are those who got nowhere else to go. Those that are highly demanded will try ways and means to escape the bond. It is a fact, check it out.
—————————
Rational self interest is universal. It is present in every population, including medical students and scholarship holders. It is naive to assume that people will not make life choices due to their rational self interest. :)
I am not suggesting that it is OK for “frustrated JPA scholar” to violate the terms of his contract with JPA. Of course, it is not. However, the JPA should listen and take his comments into consideration to improve the system. It is just too easy to call “frustrated JPA scholar” an ungrateful ass and dismiss all the comments that s/he made.
The competition for human capital will increase as a result of globalization. Talented people are especially mobile. They can choose to live and work where their rational self interest (and we are not only talking about money here) is best served. Malaysia has tried to entice talented overseas Malaysia to return and contribute. Has this scheme been successful?
Are all overseas Malaysians and Richard Teo ungrateful asses?
limkamput Says:
Yesterday at 23: 16.44
Do you know how long is the bond for the JPA medicine scholarship? I believe it’s like 10 years or so, including the housemanship period. By then, our writer will be approximately 35 years old with other commitments like starting a family.
cto,
Of course we can go anywhere we choose to be, no one can stop us. However, if you have an obligation, you must meet that obligation first. The reason the government, through tax payers’ money provides scholarship is to ensure sufficient supply of doctors for the country. Once served, of course the doctors are free to go. We must understand even developed countries face shortage of health workers and doctors. If we were to buy your argument, then the government may as well use the scholarship money to employ more doctors from poorer countries to serve in Malaysia. But we want to provide opportunity for our people and that is why we provide scholarship. But at least in return for that gesture, they must serve their contractual obligation first.
Please don’t use the globalisation argument too freely, my friend. Ok, Malaysians are free to seek greener pasture elsewhere. In the similar vein, would you want the government to allow unrestricted entry of foreign workers and professions into the country? It is easy to put forth arguments that suit our own biasness and point of view. The beauty is to be able to see from another person’s point of view.
signandsight
I think I shouldn’t be here providing all these up and coming doctors what they need to do with their life. Suffice for me to say that you actually can work toward obtaining a specialist qualification while working in hospital. Just for argument sake, there are many aged 30 something who are struggling. So why must this group of doctors having got their education free be treated so special?
U have never worked in a Malaysian hospital…therefore u are not aware at all of the situation & environment. Clinical training in Malysia (tropical nation) & Europe would be totally different. Just come back to serve Malaysia. We need you more here.
Don’t give lame excuses of venturing into researches as a reason to stay. You can go for reseaches in Malaysia as well. mind u, I am a medical personnel as well.
Having said that, I do agree that MOH has to really reconsider of their move to not recognize MRCP in near future.
limkamput Says:
Today at 02: 18.07 (1 hour ago)
Because undeserving scholars notwithstanding, they are among the best brains and all-rounders the country has to offer? Scholarships are not just to churn out skilled workforce, they are a motivation for excellence for students everywhere and a measure to counter brain drain. With brain drain, it’s a fine line. The scholars won’t want to come home to lacklustre conditions, but if there were no JPA scholarships they might be with Singapore for example.
limkamput Says:
Today at 02: 10.18 (2 hours ago)
cto,
Of course we can go anywhere we choose to be, no one can stop us. However, if you have an obligation, you must meet that obligation first. The reason the government, through tax payers’ money provides scholarship is to ensure sufficient supply of doctors for the country. Once served, of course the doctors are free to go. We must understand even developed countries face shortage of health workers and doctors. If we were to buy your argument, then the government may as well use the scholarship money to employ more doctors from poorer countries to serve in Malaysia. But we want to provide opportunity for our people and that is why we provide scholarship. But at least in return for that gesture, they must serve their contractual obligation first.
limkamput also Says:”Please don’t use the globalisation argument too freely, my friend. Ok.”
OK. I will try not to. Last I checked, I have only used this argument once and perhaps this is once too many for you.
With your permission I would like to use the globalization counterargument now. That is, if globalization does not exist and it is not real, then we will not be discussing. Greener pastures would not exist and “frustrated JPA scholar” will have no alternatives but to return and serve his bond. Correct?
———————–
I am somewhat confused by your argument. I thought you just state in one of your many postings that it is a fact that most of these ungrateful asses are just trying to escape bond. Given this is a fact, then it supports my argument that it is naive to think that people will not make life choices based on rational self interest.
Why is the Govt spending money on these ungrateful asses? To see if they will become grateful asses? Or the govt just feel like giving these ungrateful asses the opportunity to become ungrateful ass doctors? :) Is this experiment working or not?
If it is not, then employing foreign doctors from poorer countries is an option. It is not the only option though. Can you think of other options?
limkamput also Says:”It is easy to put forth arguments that suit our own biasness and point of view. The beauty is to be able to see from another person’s point of view.”
I am able to see “frustrated JPA scholar”‘s point of view. Is that beautiful or what? :)
Also, seeing and understanding another person’s point of view does not necessarilly equate to agreeing with that other person.
Aiya , I believe this scholar has a motive behind his intention to do his internship overseas.
In this case if he complete his internship in Ireland, he could be registered himself with the country’s medical board or council. thus it makes it easier for him to migrate to UK later.
Similarly you find that many medical students in Australa want do their internship in Australia. They could get themselves registered over there. So in future if they want to migrate to Australia they need not take the tough qualifying exam again.
I am not too sure they have the best brains. What I see is that they are hungry to become doctors/specialists (hopefully to make lots of money and have good life) and they are given the opportunity (through JPA) to do so. Now to achieve that, they have to serve, period. I think it is not farfetched for me to say that for whatever altruistic reasons we may want to give, the scholarship is one way for the government and tax payers to ensure sufficient number of medical doctors in the country. If some of those who think they are good enough to get another scholarship that has no bond, please go ahead. Please go to Singapore and see whether they will bond you or not.
Please don’t misconstrue me. I did not imply that you over used the word globalisation. What I meant was the word globalisation was over used (by many others) as an argument for many things that suit them one way or another.
Those ppl who drafted the policy never experience the result. How can they draft such policy in the first place when they are not product of it? Reformist have to open to feedback that such policy is no longer valid in today society, those who created it may be only good at drafting but whether it is successful or satisfied by people who undertake it.
Many funny policy has been drafted by unqualified professionals which does not make any common sense at all. It is no surprise in 2008 we have the high profile Lingam case, where the secretary was locked up in a room to write verdict.
We need stop all these jokes.
grace Says:
Today at 09: 56.22 (2 hours ago)
Aiya , I believe this scholar has a motive behind his intention to do his internship overseas.
In this case if he complete his internship in Ireland, he could be registered himself with the country’s medical board or council. thus it makes it easier for him to migrate to UK later.
Similarly you find that many medical students in Australa want do their internship in Australia. They could get themselves registered over there. So in future if they want to migrate to Australia they need not take the tough qualifying exam again.
———————————–
And your point being?
limkamput,
I agree that the JPA scholars should come back and serve. For that matter, I do not believe that anyone else that empathize with “frustated JPA scholar” has ever said that he should just forget about the contract and leave. I therefore am at a lost as to why this point is being raised repeatedly.
Furthermore, I am not sure what data or empirical evidence do you have that all JPA scholars doing medicine are just a bunch of ungrateful asses that are only interest in money and a good life. Even if this is true, what suggestion do you have to resolve the problem of JPA scholars not wanting to return home and serve? How is that constructive?
I am sure that many have said this before me and I join them in saying this:
Come back and stop moaning .
Your prejudice is showing .
And by the way , how do you think seeing cases in the UK is going to help you in managing Malaysian health problems ? A different kettle of fish altogether .
And just so you know, the Malaysian Medical System is far better than most even in the supposedly first world .
I am in the medical profession by the way
rakyatmalaysia07 Says:
Today at 13: 22.36 (10 minutes ago)
And just so you know, the Malaysian Medical System is far better than most even in the supposedly first world .
—————————–
Oh really? I am not saying that the standard of Medicine in Malaysia is bad but to say that it is far better than those in the developed nation is a stretch. The fact that you are in the medical profession makes that even more of a stretch.
Well, every system has its pros and cons. It also depends on whose side you want it to be ‘better’, those who are sick, those who are poor, even those who aren’t sick (high taxes, etc). I’m on policy level for another country’s healthcare system and gee, it’s tough to please everyone. And we’re trying our honest best here too.
My personal take on this is that, after 7+ years being abroad, none of my fellow uni mates even bothered to go back to vote. Sure they ‘supported’ the Opposition with fervor on the Internet but when asked if they will ever return, I’ve always been met with a negative. They’re now working and some are even starting a family here (heh, I’m not that old). Most only have their parents left, all siblings abroad, some even with the plan to bring their parents over in the future.
Me everyone else labels as crazy; I’ve refused foreign citizenship and PR-hood, all to cling on to the faint ideal that my Malaysian citizenship remains untainted. I cancelled meetings and rescheduled appointments, applied for personal annual leave and forked out some hard-earned money to come back and do my duty in the GE. Was rather heartwarming to speak to others in the waiting lounge that they were doing the same.
In any case, I was one of those who was previously culled by the Institut Pengajian Tinggi system of randomly assigning ludicrous courses to applicants. Got snookered into Maktab Perguruan Sultan Idris, what gives. Gave my folks many sleepless nights trying to figure out an exit strategy for me. It was one of the most torrid times of my life and none I’ve met disputes my being bitter about it. Sometimes I really wonder why my blood boils Malaysian.
signandsight,
You must first understand that the JPA scholarship was given for undergrad medical degree and with the understanding that on completion the recepient should return and serve the country, and not to pursue a post grad specialist course.If that opportunity was given to my children I will drag them home to serve the country. Just to show how grateful I would be.Instead at my retirement age I have to work my butts off to see my children thru.No I am not rich but a struggling parent determine to provide a good future for my children.Which parent wont make that supreme sacrifice?
cto says: “I agree that the JPA scholars should come back and serve. For that matter, I do not believe that anyone else that empathize with “frustated JPA scholar” has ever said that he should just forget about the contract and leave. I therefore am at a lost as to why this point is being raised repeatedly.”
So what precisely is your point? What is your view on JPA scholar, please tell me because i am lost also.
cto says: “Furthermore, I am not sure what data or empirical evidence do you have that all JPA scholars doing medicine are just a bunch of ungrateful asses that are only interest in money and a good life.
Judging from so many of them refusing to come back. Judging from so many of them refusing to serve. It is a general observation most people have. If you don’t like it, I suggest you go and find out yourself. Why must i prove it to you? You prove it to me that what i said is wrong.
cto says: Even if this is true, what suggestion do you have to resolve the problem of JPA scholars not wanting to return home and serve? How is that constructive?”
My suggestion is to kick their butts to come back to serve. I have no other suggestions. If you have, please let me know.
limkamput Says
“So what precisely is your point? What is your view on JPA scholar, please tell me because i am lost also.”
It is simple. The JPA scholar has something to say, let’s not dismiss him as an greedy and ungrateful ass (or arse) that quickly.
limkamput also says
“Why must i prove it to you? You prove it to me that what i said is wrong.”
You can make whatever assertions you like without having to prove anything. To me, the burden of proof lies with the one that makes the sweeping statements.
limkamput also says
“My suggestion is to kick their butts to come back to serve. I have no other suggestions.”
Glad to draw that admission from you that that’s all you know how to do. It is as if all the ranting and raving is going to make this JPA scholar change his/her mind. There is nothing constructive here.
Will these Government bodies ever learn? JPA/Mara? Did anyone of you notice this scenario has been playing over and over again year in year out.
In the old days, some students just abscond quietly; nowadays they have the cheek to write and publish their dissatisfaction of the very contracts the sign to prominent SoPo sites, in the hope of not paying their dues.
Come now, if you do not want to serve the country (as per the contract) you shouldn’t have signed it in the first place. Which part of the contract did YOU not understand Messrs Frustrated JPA Scholar (I sure hope he/she is following the tirade thus far)
you ppl all wrong – the real purpose of jpa is to put “best” malaysian students to show the world how smart malaysian students are! why shun them from showing their skill and capability to the mat sallehs, if they are good, they should be encouraged to maximize their potential.
i bet majority of commentators here are “very” against angkasawan malaysia.
banzai angkasawan.
http://www.angkasawan.com.my
melurian: You must be joking! Your so called angkasawan is just a space tourist paid by the corrupted Malaysian Gov using tax payer money. He is still unable to pass his final specialist exam till now and he will never will because he is busy entertaining the politician fulltime and primary school kids fulltime. He is just a clown.
Cto says: “It is simple. The JPA scholar has something to say, let’s not dismiss him as an greedy and ungrateful ass (or arse) that quickly.”
“That something to say” is what to you? To me, he was trying to get out of obligation, period.
Cto says: “You can make whatever assertions you like without having to prove anything. To me, the burden of proof lies with the one that makes the sweeping statements.”
My statements sweeping? You prove it to me that my statements are sweeping. Make a quick survey, I think most would agree with me without hesitation except may lady-gorilla. But then he is not human.
Cto says: “It is as if all the ranting and raving is going to make this JPA scholar change his/her mind.”
Frankly, I don’t expect him/her to change anything. His/her mind is already set to avoid the obligation. I hope JPA is reading this. The resolve to get him/her as well as those in similar category to serve is more compelling than ever. For a long time, because of inept administration, we have left many off the hook.
Cto says: “It is simple. The JPA scholar has something to say, let’s not dismiss him as an greedy and ungrateful *ss that quickly.”
“That something to say” is what to you? To me, he was trying to find a way out of his/her contractual obligation, period.
Cto says: “You can make whatever assertions you like without having to prove anything. To me, the burden of proof lies with the one that makes the sweeping statements.”
My statements sweeping? You prove it to me that my statements are sweeping. Make a quick survey; I think most would agree with me without hesitation, except may be that ladygorilla.
Cto says: “It is as if all the ranting and raving is going to make this JPA scholar change his/her mind.”
Frankly, I don’t expect him/her to change anything. His/her mind is already set to avoid the obligation. I hope JPA is reading this. The resolve to get him/her as well as those in similar category to serve is more compelling than ever. For a long time, because of inept administration, we have left many off the hook.
limkamput Says:
“That something to say” is what to you? To me, he was trying to find a way out of his/her contractual obligation, period.”
limkamput also preaches:
“It is easy to put forth arguments that suit our own biasness and point of view. The beauty is to be able to see from another person’s point of view.”
Take heed of your own sermon. Enough said.
limkamput says:
“My statements sweeping? You prove it to me that my statements are sweeping. Make a quick survey; I think most would agree with me without hesitation, except may be that ladygorilla”
If you have read, you would have noted that someone who took the scholarship served for 23 years. This single counterexample is proof enough that not all are ungrateful greedy asses as you have asserted.
limkamput says:
“Frankly, I don’t expect him/her to change anything. His/her mind is already set to avoid the obligation. I hope JPA is reading this. The resolve to get him/her as well as those in similar category to serve is more compelling than ever. For a long time, because of inept administration, we have left many off the hook.”
Then the root cause of the problem is the administration. If everyone of the receipient is ungrateful and greedy as you have asserted, then the JPA should not give our overseas scholarhips at all. Instead spend the money of expanding the local facilities and increasing intake. That’s one way of giving opportunities to Malaysians and at the same time ensuring that there is an adequate supply of doctors. This is only one option and there are many others depending on the objectives and desired outcome. Calling them greedy ungrateful asses is not on my list of corrective actions.
Having said that, if you can kindly pardon my use of metaphor here, I am not going to spend a whole lot of my time “casting pearls at swines”.
“I am not going to spend a whole lot of my time “casting pearls at swines”.
Please don’t insult the real swines.
cto, the feeling is mutual. I have no time for pig like you too. I suspect the JPA scholar who wrote this letter is you or someone related to you. Please don’t put words into my mouth that all are ungrateful. I said most are, including you or someone related to you.
As for gorilla, you a coward pig. Even pigs have more dignity than you.
cto says: Then the root cause of the problem is the administration. If everyone of the receipient is ungrateful and greedy as you have asserted, then the JPA should not give our overseas scholarhips at all.
So please tell us what do you want JPA to do? Close one eye or two eyes? Reral monkey.
limkamput Says:
Today at 09: 25.51 (51 minutes ago)
“cto, the feeling is mutual. I have no time for pig like you too.”
Please do not misconstrue my use of the metaphor “casting pearls at swines” as being directed at you. It is just a figure of speech.
English is a funny language and if taken literally, it can be quite comical. For instance, if one were to read what you have written above carefully, it sounds like you are admitting that you are a pig before calling me a pig. I am sure that not what you intended to write but if it is so, I would take that deal.
limkamput Says:
“I am not too sure they have the best brains. What I see is that they are hungry to become doctors/specialists (hopefully to make lots of money and have good life) and they are given the opportunity (through JPA) to do so. Now to achieve that, they have to serve, period.”
When you said “they”, I understood it to be all JPA scholars. I have absolutely no intention of putting words in your mouth. My apologies if you felt that I have interpreted what you said incorrectly.
limkamput also says:”I suspect the JPA scholar who wrote this letter is you or someone related to you.”
Absolutely no truth in your statement. You give me too much credit. :)
limkamput also says:”As for gorilla, you a coward pig. Even pigs have more dignity than you.”
Do you have any data or empirical evidence to prove this?
cto,
You should not expect limkamput who has only an attap education to understand the meaning of “metaphor” etc
For someone who thought government fiscal policy involves increasing money supply and changing interest rates, and monetary policy means increasing wages, what do you expect?
ooops “attap school education…”
limkamput Says:
Today at 09: 29.41 (1 hour ago)
cto says: Then the root cause of the problem is the administration. If everyone of the receipient is ungrateful and greedy as you have asserted, then the JPA should not give our overseas scholarhips at all.
So please tell us what do you want JPA to do? Close one eye or two eyes? Reral monkey.
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Ignoring your name calling.
No, I do not want them to close one eye or both eyes. Both eyes are currently shut. They should open both eyes. And perhaps more importantly they should use their brain and inspire from the heart.
OK, Limkamput.
Thanks so much for your time and the entertainment that you have provided. I don’t wish to toy with you any more so if you would kindly excuse me, this will be my last post to you on this topic.
To the frustrated JPA scholar,
I am not sure if you are following this thread. If you are, please allow me to give you some friendly advice.
Like all the other writers here, I agree that you are fortunate. To me, you are fortunate not because of the JPA scholarship and the RM 1 million that the government spent on you, but because soon you will be in a position to help others. I fully appreciate that you feel hard done by the JPA and some of the policies are really quite idiotic. However, whatever injustice that you are feeling, I can assure you that there are other fellow Malaysians back home that encounter much worse. Your problems pale in comparison, therefore please do think twice and thrice about things when you feel frustrated about your circumstances.
I have been inspired by a number of doctors that have placed care for patients above material wealth. I am therefore offended by some of the comments made by others here. I need you to prove these people wrong as well. There is good in you and you have every intention to do good.
My advice to you is not to worry too much about the negative comments made here. Focus on your studies, return to Malaysia, help others and be an inspiration to others.
All the very best.
CTo said:
Oh really? I am not saying that the standard of Medicine in Malaysia is bad but to say that it is far better than those in the developed nation is a stretch. The fact that you are in the medical profession makes that even more of a stretch.
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Waiting time for x ray:
In the UK it is 4 months last I heard
In M’sian health facility less than a month
In the US : Health care for the uninsured : almost none
In Malaysia :everybody who goes to a government health facility is treated at a minimal charge, foreigners are charged at a slightly higher rate yet cheaper than private medical services
In year 2000 Malaysia was ranked 49 in terms of health service in the world by WHO behind most Western countries but ahead of most East European countries.However , if you asked individuals living in Western countries, even in the ones with a socialist system , the waiting time for services makes much of the supposed services and advanced technology /skills become disadvantages.
There are many other reasons that I have for saying we have a better system than many countries comes from contact with individuals in other countries , including Singapore which by the way , ranks 6 in the world according to WHO in year 2000.
rakyatmalaysia07 Says:
Waiting time for x ray:
In the UK it is 4 months last I heard
In M’sian health facility less than a month
In the US : Health care for the uninsured : almost none
In Malaysia :everybody who goes to a government health facility is treated at a minimal charge, foreigners are charged at a slightly higher rate yet cheaper than private medical services
In year 2000 Malaysia was ranked 49 in terms of health service in the world by WHO behind most Western countries but ahead of most East European countries.However , if you asked individuals living in Western countries, even in the ones with a socialist system , the waiting time for services makes much of the supposed services and advanced technology /skills become disadvantages.
There are many other reasons that I have for saying we have a better system than many countries comes from contact with individuals in other countries , including Singapore which by the way , ranks 6 in the world according to WHO in year 2000.
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To compare things fairly, I think you have to use a more holistic approach. To cherry pick one or two attributes is not making a fair comparison. Anedoctal evidence is even less objective. Are you telling me that you would rather rely on hear-say rather than WHO?
Besides, even with the data that you have provided above, how do you conclude that the system in Malaysia is FAR better than those in some developed nations? Far better to me means significantly better.
Cto says: “Please do not misconstrue my use of the metaphor “casting pearls at swines” as being directed at you. It is just a figure of speech.”
Oh yes, only perverted and coward pig will write such a thing and said it is not directed at someone. No, you don’t have the last say in this. I call the shot here too.
And for you ladygorilla, you are a coward who simply put words into others’ mouths. You are worse than pig, you are a coward pig.
cto says: Do you have any data or empirical evidence to prove this (that ladygorilla is a pig)?
I have more than evidence. this is one, more stupid than the pig.
“For someone who thought government fiscal policy involves increasing money supply and changing interest rates, and monetary policy means increasing wages, what do you expect?”
only stupid pig will accuse others like that.
>>>>Besides, even with the data that you have provided above, how do you conclude that the system in Malaysia is FAR better than those in some developed nations? Far better to me means significantly better.<<<<<
among other readings
http://www.pcdom.org.my/docinfo/docinfo-2/fuchs
btw , you can keep your opinions ..it does not matter
My only wish is for you to become sick in the US
I think the most of us have misconstrued Frustrated’s intentions. Yes, we may have let the materialistic reality of life kick in whereby there’s no denying that Frustrated said what he wanted for selfish reasons since the country is such that the government do not compensate their medical staff well. Hence, they don’t feel appreciated.
But there is truth and light in Frustrated’s words.
Why return now when you’re still raw? If I take into account several opinions above that stress that there really isn’t much difference in the quality of education locally and foreign-based in medicine, then why did the Malaysian government come up with the stance to send students abroad?
If we assume that the quality of education is somewhat the same then can we also say that houseman-ship done overseas will produce equal results as well? There’s no denying that people in different countries will experience different diseases, but why are we limiting ourselves to provide only primary medical treatment in Malaysia? if a chronic patient (that most probably was/is a taxpayer) reads that it is not worth saving him/her because their numbers are small, do you think that is fair?
In case we forget, research is important. We don’t appreciate the importance of research because previous studies has already cured the problem. Need I quote important discoveries like vaccines for small pox (in the 20th century, it caused 300-500 million deaths) has been completely eradicated as of 1979?
Unfortunately, there are many diseases that are still incurable. This is where research comes it, and yes, for research we will need pretty smart people i.e. first class students (quoted from Morgan Lovell, in previous comments) and we will need people that are willing to do research. Research is tiring. strenuous and time-consuming. We can honestly say that research isn’t about pouring one fluid into another then test it on the subject to record its reaction.
Back to Frustrated, if you think about it, he is thinking about the future of medicine in Malaysia in the long term. What most commenters stressed was on short term obligation. I think we are still short of doctors that can provide primary medical treatment, but we lack by a larger margin the amount of experienced doctors that would be able to treat more chronic diseases. By this, I’m not saying that if Frustrated is allowed to do his/her houseman-ship overseas he would return a super specialist but at least when he returns with real experience of the medicinal field overseas he can contribute to the body of knowledge in the field of medicine in Malaysia.
Additionally, Frustrated did not deny that he will not return home. Yes, I might have to go to a reality check to ascertain that his intentions may differ once he has had a taste of working overseas. But I think he know that he not only owes the country for housing him but also the rakyat for giving him tertiary education.
Subsequently. although I’ve come to understand that the medical scene in Malaysia is relatively different because we fall back in terms of technology, expertise and man power where fresh foreign graduates would not be able to adapt to the circumstances in Malaysia, I don’t think Frustrated needs to take severe beating to make up for his lack of fundamental medicinal practice. In fact, these are stuff that you can pick up without a degree.
p.s. let’s just assume that Frustrated is a guy. He sound like one.
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the second part of my comment is about Morgan Lovell’s unconclusive statement.
After meeting two rotten eggs from the basket, it isn’t fair to conclude that all first class students are like them. It is as if those that do well in their studies do not deserve to be absorbed into the corporate world. All graduates need getting used to working. Fresh out of university, they lack the direction when everything new is heading their way. I know, he was with them for a year and they made unexpected demands in the workplace but let me entice you with a normal life of dedicated first class student who has group members that are of second class upper and lower.
For group assignments, there are no solid contributions from these patrons. Group discussions are held whereby the first class students will inevitably have to distribute work and sets the deadline for submission to her for editing after she provides her output on what should be written in the assignment, for every part. Notice that there is no output during the discussion by the other students because actually they don’t know what the assignment wants. If you want to think that the other students were not given a chance to speak up I digress because it has been two years and if they intend to speak up, they would have done so a long time ago. Basically you get stares on blank faces when you ask them how we plan to do the assignment. When the group leader asks for their part of the assignment (since it was previously distributed), they come back in the most incorrigible English where the group leader has to spend nights editing the work, adding in stuff that she feels relevant because they only did what was asked during the discussion, nothing more.
So all in all, Mr. Lovell, if you want to hire these graduates that will listen to your every word, walk left when you want them to walk left and complain when there’s a puddle of water blocking their path and that stands in front of that said puddle of water period, not thinking by themselves how to get over it then by all means, hire them.
“My advice to you is not to worry too much about the negative comments made here. Focus on your studies, return to Malaysia, help others and be an inspiration to others.”
Yes, above all remember if there is one thing you should never do it is never to smack the hand that feeds you.
As for limkaput, never mind him. He’s in the last stages of that dreadful disease that we know as syphillis. It has gone deep into his nervous system, has affected his brain (not much to begin with in any case) and is no longer able to touch his nose, constantly and consistenly mistaking his ass for his nose.
See, syphillis, STD, pimping, making passes on woman bloggers – didn’t all these show that you are a depraved pervert who can’t take a second off on sex from your stupid brain?
Ladygorilla says: “Yes, above all remember if there is one thing you should never do it is never to smack the hand that feeds you.”
Oh ya, gimme a break coming from a pervert and coward who can’t even use one single ID and tried to impersonate me and Jong in others blogs. Hello, a scumbag like you has just lost all credibility to say anything ethical and moral.
rakyatmalaysia07 Says:
Yesterday at 18: 00.04
>>>>Besides, even with the data that you have provided above, how do you conclude that the system in Malaysia is FAR better than those in some developed nations? Far better to me means significantly better.<<<<<
among other readings
http://www.pcdom.org.my/docinfo/docinfo-2/fuchs
btw , you can keep your opinions ..it does not matter
My only wish is for you to become sick in the US
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A number of points
1. Fuchs is an economist. Do you really want an economist to tell you which health care system is better? Is he commenting on the quality and standard of Medicine or from the GDP and health care spending stand point? Ever heard of Lawrence Summers and read his view point on issues?
2. You are asking Frustrated JPA scholar to come back because he can get better training in Malaysia. What has this got to do with the uninsured in the US not getting medical attention? The fact that the uninsured in the US may not get proper medical attention does not mean that the quality and standard of medicine in the US is poor. These are two distinctly different things. Also, let’s not lose sight on your original intent when you wrote about JPA scholar.
3. Your wish that I get sick in the US is not nice lah, especially coming from someone in the medical profession. If you do not want to back up your claim, then just say so.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding later, I reiterate that I am not saying or suggesting that the quality and standard of medicine in Malaysia is bad.
cto, you are never clear in any damn thing you said. So please don’t argue for nothing.
“Ladygorilla says: “Yes, above all remember if there is one thing you should never do it is never to smack the hand that feeds you.”
Oh ya, gimme a break coming from a pervert and coward who can’t even use one single ID and tried to impersonate me and Jong in others blogs. Hello, a scumbag like you has just lost all credibility to say anything ethical and moral.” limkamput
i see you’re still badgering postors for their comments while i’m gone. well, i’m back!
who care you are back or you are gone or you are dead. the world shall have more oxygen.
My dear friend.
In regione caecorum rex est luscus. such a poignant statement from a dutch philosopher 5 centuries ago can mean so true even today.
I’m sure erasmus knew what he was saying when he said ” in the land of the blind, the one eye’d is king”
well let me introduce myself, i am a fellow one eyed medical student studying in ireland as well. the main DIFFERENCE between me and you is that i am a private paying student and you are a PSD scholar.
That being that, as far as what u say about career advancement and all that shennanigans, let us be very frank and open about the “training” you want.
Firstly, you claim internship is beneficial, my dear friend, whether you are in dublin,galway,cork, or where ever you may be, and i hope for u thats not in limerick; there is absolutely positively no way you will get more hands on experience than you will in malaysia. face it!
in malaysia the housemen are made to work, in ireland the houseman do paperwork. the closest you get to action is probably doing an arterial blood analysis for a patient. housemen in malaysia are even delivering babies my dear friend. face it even if u are a Senior House Officer in Ireland, you will only be doing half the work the average Medical Officer in Malaysia does.
Oh, no doubt let me make it clear here you will also be earning maybe 4 times the amount the Malaysian does. you know that damn well to dont you. so what sort of experience are you talking about then, there is no logical basis for ‘experience’ my dear friend. please do not try to fool the malaysian general public that you will be performing medical wonders here as a intern. you will basically be a glorified medical student, not trusted to do anything and practically just hanging around while 27 million people are expecting better healthcare and are fully confident that you are “training” in Ireland. oh did i forget to mention interns in ireland are given a budget of around 5 thousand euro to spend on items they deem neccessarry for furthering their development. they are allowed to spend on laptops, palmtops and books. so maybe you should include that as well when you talk about “training”
You also claim that the people in PSD are not doctors and wont know about career advancement. My friend, their job is to give scholarships. they expect returns. is that clear enough for you,
its like this. they gave you a scholarship which you agreed upon by the way. you signed saying you will come back after graduation to serve the nation. it cannot be more simple than that. now if i want to go on and do some research or something of that sort, i dont have to answer to anyone but my private sponsors. you however, are a government scholar. heck, if i want to stop and start doing law, i can… and you cant, you have a huge responsibility there. you can’t let your country down.
by the way, i dont think the researchers in malaysia are going to like your sweeping statements of ‘lack of research’ in malaysia. in that respect you are the blind my friend, instead of being so swayed into dreams of euro currency, why dont u look up and see how much of money is being pumped into research in malaysia. of the top of my head the last i remember, even private medical universities are investing millions into research, so there again, my friend, dont try to paint such a bleak picture of malaysia and try to fool the public.
i am not writing this because i feel that i should go against you or anything of that sort. what i mentioned earlier on though, that is what i feel about, you are a scholar, even if u want to stay in ireland or go to mars i dont care. i just want to make it clear to the people who read such sweeping remarks by overseas trained students. malaysian medical education may not be as advanced and as cost effective as it is in Ireland or the UK, but it does provide enormous amounts of experience and that my friend is very important to generate competent doctors.
i hope u understand the importance of keeping to your agreement, maybe you dont know but for malaysia, capital flight is a serious issue, if you dont know what it is read it up, i think you have to wisen up and see the bigger picture here, if all scholars acted like you, your children will not be given scholarships. there will simply be no more money left in this country if we paying your fees . maybe then you will return to help, would you ? no i dont think so..
oh and regarding the contract and fees…
(circa 35 000 euro a year x 5 years is around 180 k euro = 900 000 ringgit, u think its fair if PSD asks a million back ? i sure do, sounds like a fair deal, oh wait, they pay for living expenses too ? ah, thats another couple of hundred grand aint it my friend, hmmm,maybe youre getting a discount here?
pay it off and stay in ireland then.. just swrite and speak sense while you are at it please.
Big mistake (syndrome) = small mistake (cause) + small mistake (risk factor) + small mistake (symptom)
Mistake can be divided into reversible and irreversible
1st Small mistake = JPA choose the wrong guy to study medicine (irreversible cause)
2nd Small mistake = Study environment and wrong doctor’s perception (reversible risk factor)
3rd Small mistake = Writer’s attitude of becoming a doctor (symptom that maybe reversible but can be irreversible as it is chronic)
We need to breakdown the problem and treat:
Solutions (treatment) are as follows:
1. To educate JPA people in choosing the right candidate (PRIMARY prevention – detect the cause, kill it before the epidemic start) from the beginning
2a. Can transfer him to India/Indonesia/Bangladesh/Egypt/3rd world country NOW and get the respective 3rd world university degree.
2b. Raised the penalty from 160K to 1000K
Since his intention is to get enough exposure – you got plenty chance to know the diseases. If he agree, JPA please transfer him and just recognize his degree :so no recognition issue – SECONDARY prevention (to treat before the ‘disease’ / complication affect him)
3. Send him back to Malaysia and ‘treat’ him first in Malaysia (TERTIARY PREVENTION – complication set in and need treatment)
I guess JPA is doing the tertiary prevention as well as secondary prevention (raising the penalty from 160k to 1000k).
Ha, we doctors treat our patient like that and we need to treat this ‘patient’ before the plaque swallow him.
I see a lot of people here dismissing overseas scholarship as a total waste of money. I am shocked.
I am a recipient of JPA scholarship (Russia Medicine), and I really do count my lucky stars.
Having trained 5 years overseas now, there is something that I feel compelled of sharing with fellow Malaysians.
We are sent all over the world for a reason. We are here to observe the way things work in a foreign country, to gain a new perspective and hopefully to improve the health care system in malaysia upon return. Dear friends, we can’t really be cooped up in our coconut shell can we? While you complain about how bad our healthcare system in Malaysia is, do you realise that change can only be made if there is presence of exposure to different kind of possibilities being practised in different settings?
That’s what we are expected to do, I suppose. To see and learn the strong points of others, practise them in Malaysia while preventing mistakes in the countries we are living now from recurring in Malaysia.
And it is very unfair to us, that you deem us “incompetent housemen” when we return. Do you know that the local graduates are trained to adapt to Malaysian healthcare environment? How do you expect us to adapt at once when we are trained in a different way from you? It’s not fair that you give us a death sentence, dismissing the quality of our education just because, we are different from you.I am sure, if you are to practise in Russia, you will struggle too, at first that is.
Dear Malaysians, What makes you think that Malaysian medicine is better than other countries when actually we are only implementing what is RESEARCHED and PIONEERED by others at the very first place? I do not think that UK or US or Australia or Russia are way better than Malaysia, but to think that MALAYSIA MEDICINE IS THE BEST just shows plain ignorance that should certainly be avoided like the deadly plague.
I have seen the condition of hospitals in Russia, and also that of Malaysia. I weigh the pros and cons, and upon request we can tell you what is lacking and commendable in Malaysian Healthcare system.
I think we should paint a larger picture here. Sending students overseas is not a waste. We don’t work like dogs while missing family and friends back home for no reason. Please do not discredit our toil and tears because contrary to public belief, studying medicine overseas, is not a bed of roses.
Rationale : My 2 cents of feedback, I wish to correct your opinion that Malaysian do not think malaysian medicine is better and we are NOT solely implementing what is RESEARCHED and PIONEERED by others at the very first place. Please attend some of the Malaysian Cardiology Conference (or others) and listen to the country best brain of how they criticising the lastest research together with their experience. See how are they extracting the conspiracy behind each trail and how they prove the trial is bias. Please be informed that most trails are funded by drug company to advertise their expensive drugs. (example, the best 1st line drug to treat hypertension is diuretic instead of CCB, ACEI, ARB in term of cost and mortality)
You haven just ‘seen’ the condition of both countries. In fact your are not part of the either health systems yet. Everybody can give commend of what they think but when you are really practise as a doctor and bearing the responsibility as health personal, you perception will change.
I believe sending student to overseas is not a waste BUT I do believe that sending a student overseas that who is not coming back or if coming back only complete the compulsary service and leave to the private later is a ‘waste’ to the tax player money. How many of the JPA scholarship oversea students manage to complete the 10 years bond service with the government? I afraid I don’t have any in my mind at the moment.
Pls come back to work in Malaysia and give commend later. Are you planning to stay to complete 10 years bond? I afraid later the excuses are bad health system, how come other lazy one get promoted and I don’t, I have been placed to the place that I don’t want, a lot of on call, low salary and so on when you plan to leave later.
To commend Russia graduate as ‘incompetent’ is not solely from what we think. It is from what we see and how they all perform when they are doing attachment in Malaysia. We as senior doctor don’t see only the knowledge but importantly the way and idea of how to look for the important patient history, come to the provisional diagnosis, ordering necessary tests and your approach later to solve the patient problem.
Knowledge you can learn from the books as we all don’t expect you know top to toe of each diseases. We senior doctor sometime have to read back our undergraduate book as well. So, the thinking and the approach of how you search and prioritise the patient problem when you see each patient is my utmost concern.
Sorry to say that the russia graduates that I seen so far is not up to the respective standard. They’re more concern of how to do T&S, dialysis and procedure but neglected the basic science and the correct approach to the disease. Skill can learn later but when you have wrong approach from the first place, it is very very hard for you to change later.
Adaptation from one health care system to the other health care system is no problem as if your approach is right in the first place. You can survive in both places. For example, russia student that I saw couldn’tt tolerate the synonym that used in Malaysia. Example CXR and chest x ray, AXR and abdominal x ray, Rx and treatment, Ix and investigation. I don’t know why they are so insist of using the full sentence. It is just a media for us to communicate with our college. What we concern is your approach, approach and approach.
Don’t expect to change the recent health system overnight as I believe that our DG and superior are doing hard work in changing it. You just can’t expect that you only come back when everything is ready for you. You have to sail through the hard time of how the system change and witness it.
Mr NCP,
I am very well aware that I am currently engaging in a debate with a potential superior who will most likely try to demoralise practically every Russian graduate without at first giving us a chance to prove ourselves.
I admit, I have zero experience in terms of treating a patient, I admit as well that I have never been to a “Malaysian Cardiology Conference (or others) and listen to the country best brain of how they criticising the lastest research together with their experience”.
But I guess you have to admit as well, that you have not been first hand in Russian hospitals to see how Russian doctors work in a different setting from Malaysia. When we do electives in Malaysia we are shocked by how Malaysian doctors write diagnosis, without full information of stages, classification and complication. It’s like you need to search through the whole thick case report and while trying , to read the illegitimate handwriting, work out painfully what is exactly wrong with the patient. Not to mention how doctors try their best to discharge all patients especially when weekend is approaching. And the patient education. Patients in Malaysia mostly do not know what medication they are taking. it would be either the “blue tablet” the “yellow tablet” or the “small white tablets”. Ask any babushka (ah mas) in Russia, they will tell you the names of the medication straight on your face, and don’t be surprised if they managed to tell you as well what the medications are meant for. And oh the compassion for patients, doctors in Russia actually LISTEN to patients. Have I mentioned that doctors in russia earn less than a bus conductor and a bus driver? Their passion for medicine and heart warming doctor-patient interaction is truly an eye opener.
Having said that, I don’t think that all doctors in Malaysia are interested in discharging patients only. There are quite many who win me over with their dedication and professionalism. Because unlike you sir, i don’t judge the whole basket of apples rotten when only a few of them is bad.
And for your information boss, my friends and I when copying lectures, we do use abbreviations like CXR, AXR, Rx, Ix. Please do not assume that you know us when you don’t know us at all.
So boss, we lack in the skill in approaching patients? Thank you for telling me that, I will convey your message to my fellow friends and we will try our best to improve on that.
As for you sir. I just hope, that you can be more open and stop thinking that Malaysia is all that good and Russia is lousy and beyond rescue. Everything and every one has their good and bad points. We the Russian medical students are really sick of how you doctors look down on us without giving us a chance to prove ourselves.
As for “expecting to change the recent health system”, how dare I dream to change our health system when I see that it’s so hard even to change your mindset on ALL RUSSIAN GRADUATES.
For your information, we are human beings with feelings too. We want to be a doctor as much as the local students and we work hard to achieve our aim too.
We will prove you wrong. I will prove you wrong.
Thanks anyway boss. You gave me more motivation to be a better doctor, and a better human.
I read the responses with great enthusiasm and I’m glad to hear the voices of democracy. To start off with, I have to applaud the writer for his courage to voice his concerns. The responses are vastly critical of his views but I think they have criticised the wrong person whom I think is merely messager.
Most Malaysians would like to see him and the rest of the JPA scholars back to Malaysia, and I have a feeling that most JPA scholars would want to come back. How do I know? Because I’m one of these JPA scholars and I sincerely want to come back.
I agree with most responders that the JPA scholarship scheme is viewed as a waste of money. But what I don’t agree is sponsoring this writer a waste of money. S/he has at least raised a lot of problems that we need to address, and this awareness stems from the exposure we gain overseas.
Malaysian health & education systems are not heading the right direction. Our universities continue to slide down the world ranking, and our people is viewed as less than competitive in the global market. We are short of doctors at home, yet we don’t train those who did well at school & wanted to do medicine, and we certainly don’t treat our doctors well enough to keep them in the public system. Many simply wish to complete their compulsory terms and leave the system. Those who are compassionate enough to serve the Rakyat only later regret they are being left out in the ever Money oriented society.
Instead of attacking the writer personally and using derogatory description, let us ask a few questions:
1. don’t we all want the government to provide a free and fair education system? Instead of sending a few hundreds of scholars (mainly Malays) overseas doing bachelor degrees, JPA should channel the fund to local universities and hospitals, and improve the standards locally. I could not imagine JPA spending millions of ringgits on scholars including myself, only to see our valuable money goes to foreign economy, universities & hospitals. This money is better spend on improving our hospitals and providing more local scholarships, medical training positions & research funding. Speaking of scholarships, these should be awarded based on citizenship and meritocracy. A racially bias scheme would only undermine our unity and fuel resentment, and I call for more transparency in their selection.
2. don’t we all want a health system which has adequate funding & equipment, so that we can truly raise the Rakyat’s health standard? How can we expect these scholars to serve the Rakyat when our health system doesn’t have the financial capacity to provide for the Rakyat? Worse still, they come back as housemen and not fully trained doctors/specialists. Moreover, western trained doctors have acquired the knowledge, skills & experience from developed countries, and these assets are completely wasted if there is no opportunity for them to share & practise on their newly acquired knowledge, and that local doctors reject/belittle their views and continue with current standards of care. Malaysia is NOT a poor country. We have great human & natural resources and we have a proud multicultural history. The fact that our health & education systems are so depressing is because our government places little emphasis on these fundamentals of society. We see multi-billion dollar megaprojects failed and rampant corruptions that sap the tax-payers money. Effort should be made in stopping this blatant waste of money and more effort should be made to improve our health system and to encourage the JPA scholars to return home. Don’t let the government brain-wash you to believe the country can’t afford a first class healthcare system for the Rakyat.
3. don’t we want our local doctors to be better looked after, so the best local doctors remain in public system to serve the Rakyat and teach the medical students? Many JPA scholars are relunctant to return home to serve because of the many sad stories they hear from those who returned and those working in the public system. No one with some intelligence would want to return to a place which they will one day rot & live in despair. This is not being selfish or unpatriotic, this is simply being prudent. Many local doctors are eager to leave the system, and so it comes as no surprise why JPA scholars & western trained doctors are so relunctant to return to a system which even the locals are abandoning. And this is the root of why we are short of doctors – not because the few hundred JPA scholars not returning home, it is because the healthcare system is in such bad shape that doctors are leaving. We should call on the government to improve both our education & health systems, improve the doctors’ wages & working conditions, and clamp down on corrupted officials.
JPA scholars in general are not ungrateful Malaysians, and I myself don’t intend to use taxpayers’ money for my private indulgence. My dream is still to return to my country which I can truly contribute my part in improving the healthcare system, and not being exploited as cheap labourer. Forcing JPA scholars to payback lumpsum would only make matter worse. What JPA scholars, like the writer, want to see is light down the tunnel when they return home one day. No amount of coercion and criticism is going to make these JPA scholars return unless we truly address those issues of grave concern. I am confident JPA scholars will return in droves if conditions in Malaysian healthcare system in particular, and Malaysian politics in general, improve for the better. Forcing JPA scholars home would NOT improve our healthcare system because the main problem is our government’s lack of interest in our healthcare system. On the surface, it may appear they have breeched their contracts and are an ungrateful bunch, but their action serves a clear message that drastic changes are needed to improve our healthcare systems. I hope the recent election results send a clear signal to the BN-led government to clean up its act, or we’ll see a new government in 5 years time, which I hope will be more successful in moving the country forward, and in doing so, attract the JPA scholars including myself to proudly return home.
I myself am a medical student studying in Eire, and to me, the writer is an embarrassment to ALL medical students here. The arrogance displayed showed the unrealistic ideas some JPA scholar have. I wonder is the writer even aware about the job opportunities in Eire. Even RCSI & UCD graduates have trouble getting an internship if they are not local or from the EU.
If you’re so smart, did you do your electives back in Malaysia? Have you seen how the doctors back here are more competent? Did you realise how they’re more of an all rounder rather than the slacking doctors in Ireland? I am not saying bad things about the Irish health care system but though we have horrible working hours here and a pay that doesn’t seem fair, our own health care system here is good!
Then again, maybe you think that you’re just too good for this country.
Let me ask you one thing, are you being a doctor because you want to help people? or you’re just doing it because of the money? most of the people I know who stayed back to work there do it for the money, as we know interns could have a pay up to 9000 euros if they work hard enough. Don’t give us the lie about working there for experience. We all know that working in Malaysia gives a whole lot more of exposure.
I wonder why JPA is giving scholars to such brats.
Correction : I’m not calling all scholars brats. Just to a few. I do know the last sentence is a judgmental sweeping statement, but I also know, many would agree with me on the statement.
Even RCSI?i thought RCSI was a private institution and has one of the lowest entry requirements among all the irish med schools?RCSI graduates subjected to a lot of flak in the past.And if im not mistaken JPA has stopped sending students to RCSI.Is this true?
sorry
i meant RCSI graduates have been subjected to……….
Rationale : I do undertand you unsatisfaction for the commend form the so called ‘superior’ regarding the feedback especially Russian graduate. I can feel your anger in your feedback. However I wish to tell you that the only way you can turn the situation is to show your future superior and senior doctor how reliable and capable you are. Me too have undergone the situation maybe a little similar with your situation.
During my housemanship, I have to undergone my hard time too as my worst time was needed to work for continuous 48 hours without sleep and on top of that have to remember all the 40 patients history, presentation, provisional diagnosis, lab investigation as the next plan for each patient. You need to present to the specialist all the above information 5 times a day WITHOUT looking into the files. Which patient discharge today, which one is new patient? Sounds impossible but it can be done.
“When we do electives in Malaysia we are shocked by how Malaysian doctors write diagnosis, without full information of stages, classification and complication. It’s like you need to search through the whole thick case report and while trying , to read the illegitimate handwriting, work out painfully what is exactly wrong with the patient.” – I agreed with you, but take into consideration that you are looking a note that is from a working doctor, he is not suppose to write every patient case like ‘text book’ format and you student just read and learn. It like what I mentioned to you the approach, if you know what you want, you extract the important information from the 2 inches thick note, NOT to read and copy everything from it, otherwise you have endless job to do.
Doctor try to discharge patient before weekend. I guess the situation is same as Malaysia as well. The reason behind is the hospital need more beds to accomodate weekend patient. Beside working as medical student, have you ever considered the work and stress of the staff nurse and others like doing all the dirty work (changing diaper, washing dirty patient & facing with difficult patient etc).
Russian doctor earning less than bus driver? Compare to my time, my oncall earning only earn RM25/call (till 2004 I suppose)- it was even lesser than those who working in McDonald and labour. I did’t even mentioned it to anyone (since you brought it up). My worst time was 14 calls in a month and only earn RM350 extra in a month. Houseman now is earning RM150/call. You can’t compare it with other profession. You are not going to work in Russia later.
Put away all your unsatisfaction and frustration. Concentrate of what you suppose to learn now. What I advise you further is the 2 year housemanship is utmost important to all the houseman. This are the time that your future characteristic as doctor are formed. If you ‘curi ayam’ and lazy in the training. You might able to pass the posting, but later when you go to the rural area or working alone later, if you know nothing or a little thing only, the loser still the patient. So be prepare to undergo the hell like training and ‘torture’ by the system. If you can sail through it, you’ll be very much satisfy later.
I don’t care where are you coming from (UKM, UM or from well known uni), but if your attitude is wrong, then sorry to say that, I’m worry for the patient treat by you. Better go sell drug.
Lastly, you earn the respect from the people for what you did. I really wish you can prove that I’m wrong and I’m looking toward it. I can see that people always complained about Malaysia Health System. But can you find any place in the world that you only pay RM1 for the emergency doctor treatment (including CT scan, CXR and treatment), outpatient clinic and others. Malaysia situation now is 30% total doctors in Malaysia are working in government and they’re seeing 70% total patient in malaysia.
Do you know that some rich people use to come to government hospital paying RM5 and leave with expensive medicine costing >RM1000 even they are afford to pay it. Why some terminal / bad prognosis patient always ended up in government hospital after their money has been ‘squeezed’ totally by the private hospital? Do you still think government hospital is bad, I don’t think so. Why nobody see this??????
There are positive and negative aspect of each health system in view of different country politic influence and situation. So we shouldn’t apply other country health system to a country. Russia don’t have majority of Malay, Chinese and Indian people and Malaysia don’t have a lot of Russian people.
Wish you all the best.
I can understand the general sentiment that JPA scholars should come back and serve because they have been funded by Malaysian taxpayers.
However, in this case, I believe the argument that Malaysians are ‘not getting our money’s worth’ from these scholars is absolutely ludicrous. If these so called ‘defenders of taxpayers’ money’ really want to make a difference, their energy would be most useful chasing those indulging in corruption of up to billions of Ringgit, and not innocent medical students who actually are presenting sound arguments for their extended stay.
I find the original letter a little amusing. I dont think calling names and spilling out expletives will help in this matter, so I will attempt to counter the arguments as rationally as I can.
“This would mean we cannot obtain the sufficient exposure that would make our training complete”.
-> I’m sure as a worthy JPA scholar and also a med student, you do know that the disease spectrum in the western world and here in Malaysia is quite different. Going through your housemanship here will no doubt benefit you in the long term (since you so confidently said you love your country and will return to serve) because an early exposure to the diseases of the local society means you will be equipped to handle all of these when you specialize too.
-> Not to mention that there are local sensitivities and cultural aspects that a doctor needs to know while handling a patient. All these, will surely help you to grow as a better doctor.
Dont you agree?
“it seems that JPA gives priority to romantic relationships over the academic achievements of its scholars by giving exception to remain overseas to those who are married to a fellow JPA/MARA sponsored student who are still commencing studies in the foreign country concerned.”
-> This point I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think that policy is a little absurd and if everybody has to come back, then EVERYBODY has to come back.
“Till today, I have yet to comprehend the narrow minded policies set by the JPA. JPA seems to fail to understand that by allowing its scholars to stay on for postgraduate training, many will be offered positions in world-renowned healthcare institutions”
-> Well, it’s actually quite easy to comprehend, I’m surprised you do not know. In a nutshell, there are obviously a shortage of doctors (I’m sure you know that) in Malaysia and obviously the govt would prefer if you come back and serve the people here, and also to help ease the workload of your colleagues.
-> Also, you do know that to specialize, one need to work in the wards first and take a series of examinations which includes theory papers and oral/viva. And I dont see why that cant be done here? The first part will definitely be a theory paper, so I’m sure the medical bookstores here have the volumes for you to study, so that shouldnt be a problem. Besides, many doctors here take the local and foreign examinations. They do go over to take exams, to do their training, so you can too.
-> Oh, you mean those who do their postgraduate courses wont be offered a place in world renowned health care institution? That would simply be an insult to those who did their postgraduate courses here. Try reading a little on the achievements of local doctors.
“Also of importance is the availability of funding to do research work in these foreign teaching hospitals, which is significantly lacking in Malaysia.”
-> Agreed. Our research facilities or funding might not be the best around, but I’m sure you can help the Malaysian community while pursuing your academic interest. After all, isnt that what a doctor is suppose to do? To help the community and the Malaysian community needs doctors like you.
“Will MOH be able to cope with the demand for training posts? Will the ministry of health be able to provide enough housemenship positions, and if yes, will these posts provide high quality training, as the saying goes ‘too many cooks spoil the soup’? In the long term, will the ministry of health be able to provide enough specialist opportunities, considering its eagerness to do away with MRCP and only recognize the local masters program? My fear is that there will be a bottleneck down the pipeline, and many competent doctors will be failed by JPA and the ministry of health’s poor planning.”
-> I’m not sure what are you getting here. Not enough training posts? The latest statistics shows that the doctor-patient ratio in Malaysia is 1: 1500. With the emergence of more hospitals, like the Putrajaya one, the Sultanah Bahiyah Hospital in Alor Setar (which has a pretty good concept like a open garden), I doubt there will be lack of training posts. If you think the Peninsular dont offer you good exposure, try the West Malaysia instead. There are always a shortage of doctors there, especially in the rural areas. Of course, I’m not talking about specializing, I’m talking about what you need to do as a fresh graduate; a houseman, that’s where all doctors start. The 2 years you spend as a houseman will probably determine what kind of doctor you are, so I believe that crucial to your education as doctor.
“Henceforth, to lessen the burden on the Malaysian Healthcare system, it would only be simple common sense to allow those graduating from foreign universities who are offered good opportunities to continue with their post graduate training overseas without having to return immediately, as it is the easiest way to gain access to train in these countries.”
-> Let’s not kid ourselves. We all know the working conditions, the workload, and the pay doctors get as govt servants arent very motivating. Not many will return, and that’s a fact. But I agree that changes need to be made so that doctors will want to return and stay.
“Finally, I would like to stress that all JPA scholars love their country, and would love to return to serve. However to my view, it would be better to return after adequate exposure to first world healthcare, as this would bring the most benefit to the rakyat. I am also fully aware that a contract is a contract, (despite the fact JPA changed the contract one-sidedly half way through our training from a penalty of RM160,000 to approximately a million ringgit) without prior warning), and if JPA remains adamant to prevent its scholars to further develop their skills overseas, the only thing we can do is to return as housemen”
-> If you really love your country, then you should know the situation of the healthcare system here and the need of housemen, so if doctors-to-be like you do not help the country, who will?
->Yes, a contract is a contract. Even if you are not a JPA scholar, the govt stipulate that ANY medical graduate from ANY college around the world needs to come back and serve the govt for 2+3 years now. So, I’m sure you know that when you want to become a doctor in Malaysia, and perhaps you should learn to honor the contract.
Nobody is saying you shouldnt pursue a postgraduate course overseas, but much of doctors like you are needed by the Rakyat, and that is what a good doctor will attend to.
Regards,
Houseman in Malaysia.
hiya..there are only very few non malays who are on jpa scholarship to read medicine overseas.What about those MARA scholars who dont have a bond attached in the first place?Whose money are they using up?Why isn’t anyone making noise about that?
Non malay rely on what?
After reading the posts, I have came to my own conclusion.
I must admit, a doctor does get a lot more exposure working in M’sia. Hands-on skills, spectrum of diseases..I could have a list of things that oversease can’t provide. I have to admit again, another reason to work in overseas is the money. After all, we are only humans, we doesn’t lean over to the side who pays more? I’m not trying to provoke any anger but I’m telling the truth, you can’t deny this. Any M’sia graduates who are given a chance to work overseas, I’m not no one would decline it.
Chasing freshly graduated medical JPAs to go home isn’t a wise move. Personally, I think they should be allowed to stay overseas as long as they are taken into overseas training programme, and make them go back M’sia when they are finished as a consultant,
It is true that the spectrum of diseases is not the same in overseas and in M’sia. But every doctor who return to M’sia will have a transition period to adapt themselves, given a 6 months period I’m sure they can refresh their medical knowledge to adapt the local settings. One of the things that a M’sia graduate is not trained in is communication skills. Althought it’s not a big problem in M’sia as M’sia doctors are alway the ‘boss’ to their patient, I think as a doctor we are not just treating the disease. We are treating the disease, the patient and their family. The way overseas doctors communicate with patient is very different, and I think it’s better than local graduates. Do we not want these overseas graduates to take these skills back home?
Doctors to patients ratio of 1:1500, building more hospitals…what good is it to build plenty of hospitals when there are not enough specialists to train?? I don’t think having all JPAs back to fill these newly opened hospitals, with no proper/incompetently trained specialists is going to help the country. The reason I’m saying incompetently trained specialists is because of the government’s policy. Per-U/college graduates who did badly, some even failed their exams are taken in to ‘special’ programmes, such as SLAB (or something like that), and they have all the good training and privilages to become a medical consultant in the shortest and fastest way. These people are then placed in hospitals to train fresh houseman. Think yourself, if you parents are admitted to hospital, do you want these guys to treat them? Honestly, I DON’T.
Chasing fresh HO to go back is not a wise move. Instead I think they should be allowed to stay as long as they are taken into overseas training programme. JPAs can call these guys back when they have finished as a specialists/consultant, by that time they will have the skills and technology to bring home for the benefit of M’sia. I’m not JPA scholars but I just want to give my opinion. I have been overseas for 4 years and I have seen many long graduated JPA/MARA or other scholars working here, they are married and have children. Why does the government not forcing them back since they have been outside for SO long. What’s that about?? If the government wants to call back scholars, these guys should be called back first.
One more point. All medical graduates from overseas have to serve government for a fixed period of time on returning. Why? If I were to return, I will want to work with government first to adapt myself. But I just don’t like the idea of forcing returnees to work for government when we graduated without spending government’s money.
I’m just sounding my opinion, there is no right or wrong with my arguments. They are purely my thoughts. I love Malaysia, but with the current government’s policies, there is no good for me to come back. I’m sorry.
I am a medical student studying in the UK, under private (i.e. parents) sponsorship.
lets start by saying my parents are not rich, indeed my dad had to come out of retirement to support me. I got straight A’s in college, and am in the top 10% of my medical batch at uni here.
Despite that, I didn’t apply for a scholarship as my parents believed it should go to those who really need it (i.e. those who can’t afford at all). Also, my family fell in the bracket of not being quite poor enough for me and my brother to receive scholarships, nor quite rich enough to have contacts. i should say i’m not a malay (if thats relevant at all, and it SHOULD NOT be)
You can imagine the contrast over here, as many malaysian scholarship students in my course come from richer families then i do. One has a ferrari at home, another goes on holiday about 4-5 times a year. One JPA student here has a dad whos a doctor, and a mom who’s a dentist. Both my parents never got the chance to attend uni, but worked hard and saved up their whole lives for my education.
While I admit some students here are genuinely poor and deserve the need for a scholarship, there are MANY whom you would think can survive without it as their parents can certainly afford to pay for them. ‘scholarship’ money thus goes to other expenses such as the newest PS sets, flatscreen tvs, regular weekend trips to London etc. While this may sound stereotypical or something I would say out of spite, it is the truth.
I have to take weekend jobs just to cover my rent. But i’m happy anyway, as i RECOGNIZE the opportunities i’ve got studying here in england.
This is what makes me angry. My brother also trained in medicine here, also privately sponsored. He was asked repeatedly to return to the country to serve, as a surgeon. I too have been told I should go back. The government constantly laments that we are unpatriotic or traitors?
This makes me sad. If you want people to serve the country, then please give scholarships to those who deserve it. It is frustrating seeing money (our parents taxes) been thrown around to richer kids who do not deserve it. It is just insulting, and a slap to our faces. There is a whole generation of privately funded but equally talented/ intelligent young professionals studying overseas who are not wanting to go back, as the government has snubbed us, or refused us scholarships, and instead give money (our parents taxes) to those who do not deserve it .
Is the country facing a ‘brain drain’? If so, ask yourselves why
What makes me even sadder is tht JPA students do not want to go home to serve. I did my electives in Malaysia, and it made me realise that training in UK is nowhere near enough to be competent to practice in Malaysia. The diseases are different.The patients are different. And the system is different. A fully trained ‘consultant’ in the UK will still be lost in a key Malaysian hospital.
To Frustrated JPA Scholar, just think about what you’ve said. People have paid for you to study abroad, and you do not want to go home.
I do want to go home. And the reason is simple. Its because my parents are at home. So are all my elderly relatives. These people are people we know, and they need good doctors.
Your contract is for undergraduate studies. Complete it and come back to work or pay the RM160,000.
Do not complain about the penalty clause of RM160,000. That was a mistake of the government from 1970s. They did not revise it proportionately to the increase of fees. The clause is a “joke” it should be based on actual sum spent on you but it is not. The reason it is so is because the scholarships are reserved for children of people at “high places” (who can and will pay the penalty and not serve the govt), with a few given to the “lucky ones” like you. You are lucky enough to get a scholarship.
Do not complain anymore!!! For you information do you how many rural poor Malay children were sent overseas on 50% scholarship and 50% loan for courses that leave the unemployed with a loan to pay when they come back.
Although I symphatise with JPA medic scholars who wish to undertake their housemanship overseas for the sake of experience and gaining the necessary skills, I am nonetheless relieved to find out that JPA is now putting in tougher measures to ensure that scholars return to Malaysia and fulfill their obligation to serve the nation.
According to the Star article recently, there are 63 medical students who did not return last year. Each students are funded up to £1.1m each to complete their course. Thats £63m of tax payers money being wasted on ungrateful students in UK alone. This is simply unacceptable!
By all means, let us encourage our bright and young minds absorb as much knowledge, experience and skills as they could, but the government should also be vigilant in ensuring public money is well spent.
As for “Frusted JPA Scholars”, I am afraid his plight is littered with the signs of someone who has lost the spirit of altruism that may be embodied by the scholarship he was given. In his own words, “many will be offered positions in world-renowned healthcare institutions” and “For one, what is wrong with earning money?”. As a taxpayer, I feel I have a right to remind him/her that a JPA scholarship is a privilege, not an entitlement. So whilst although the new JPA ruling seems harsh and knee-jerk (due to poor foresight and planning…but thats JPA for you), I would advise “Frusted JPA Scholars” to put things into wider context and consider the moral and contractual duty he/she has with the government and rakyat. Go back and serve the nation!!
I see there’s no need for jpa medical students to obtain experience or skills from overseas country since that same experience and skills can be obtained in Malaysia. What that scholar is doing is simply despicable.
his duty is to serve the Malaysian people but he just wants to earn his paycheck in British pounds and migrate there. What is he trying to prove? Because of irresponsible scholars like him, the gorvernment refuses to send deserving students to established medical universities in U.K. What the government should do to scholars like him is to sue this fella amounting to what the expenses the gov’t has paid for him. How I wish the gov’t found out about your attitude and send you to Indonesia instead!
Speaking of unfair…what is unfair?for the frustrated JPA scholars..
your reaons or rather excuse from the letter seem so reasonable,so beautifully written.First of all,you should be content that you got the scholarship,as many and i mean it,many who have same qualification with you,maybe better qualification than you actually don’t stand a chance securing the scholarship.we knew that it is by \luck\ for being selected to be the scholar.
what is justice mean to you?when you see you have the same qualification with other scholars but cant secure the scholarship?when you see that other people who are 10*times or maybe 100* richer than you actually get the scholarship?just because his/her parents are the so-called \influential people\like the \dato\,or the very renowned professional?i tell you this,this is unfair.
yes,I did apply for the scholarship a few years backand went through the interview.And I turn out failed to secure the scholarship.Thats alright i assure myself,and console myself that its still fair in the end as the scholars need to came back and served the country for years,it is ok as the scholars need to pay back the money.I try so hard to assure myself until today,though it passed a few years back.You never know the grief of the \unlucky\ one like me and some of my friends who then continue our study in STPM.You certainly don’t know the disappointment of our beloved parents.Mum and dad,I know you are dissatisfied,I know you are still hurt.Yes,I understand all this. And the \lucky\ one,don’t know how to appreciate it.Sending you all to oversea is NOT the people or the nation obligation,you should knew it.What a shame!yet,we heard complaints all over from the scholars how the money is not enough for them,how they are bonded,how they cant come back during festival…how this and that.enough…enough…
Its more unreasonable when I knew that many scholars actually indeed wanted to \escape\ from the repayment!really!i ask myself why?is it what education taught us?
my parents are working hard just to pay us to enter local university.yes,you see it correctly,its local university.and what the JPA scholars say is totally not making any sense to me..
we will be brave in front of truth.we will learn to appreciate what life give us when we were treated unfairly.
eternal1098:i totally agree with yoo!two thumbs up!