Posted on by Kit

Vote for Change to ensure that Malaysia is United, Prosperous and Progressive

BY Dr Chen Man Hin (DAP Life Advisor)

IDENTITY CRISIS

It was clear that during the 50th Merdeka celebrations there was uncertainty and frustration among the people because they were unsure of their identity. Some were bumiputras, while others were non-bumiputras, Some were called ketuanan Melayu but others were not. They thought they were Bangsa Malaysia (Malaysian), but now they were told by UMNO that they do not accept Bangsa Malaysia.

The Federal Constitution clearly states that there is only one category of citizens. There is no mention of bumiputras or ketuanan melayu, which are actually inventions of UMNO.

Prime Minister in 2004 promised that all citizens in Malaysia are treated equally. He has not reinstated the Bangsa Malaysia status for all citizens.

VOTE FOR CHANGE. Vote for your birthright. Vote for political freedom, political equality and for BANGSA MALAYSIA.

ECONOMIC FREEDOM IS LACKING in Malaysia. It ranks 68 out of 157 countries in the world. Because of this, foreign investments into Malaysia are low compared with Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam and Hong Kong. In a global world, liberalisation with a free market economy is important for the economy to progress.

The New Economic Policy has frightened investors from Europe and America. It is also the cause of slow economic growth. since its launching in 1971, the economy has fallen badly behind Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South Korea.

Per capita income 2007

Malaysia US$ 6146 (IMF)
Singapore 34,152
Taiwan 16,246
Hong Kong 29,149
South Korea 19,624

The figures speak for themselves. It means that the Barisan has been telling one big lie to the people. Because of the NEP and corruption, Malaysia is way behind the four Asia dragons. Malaysia per capita income is one third that of a South Korea and one fifth that of a Singaporean.

Bear in mind that in 1970, Malaysia and Singapore started at about the same per capita income level. With the present economic progress in Malaysia, vision 2020 will remain a dream at the targeted date of 2020

VOTE FOR CHANGE FOR PROSPERITY!

There is no religious and cultural freedom.

The modern global world is moving towards religious and cultural freedom. We are a secular state but Barisan’s leaders like DPM Datuk Razak claims Malaysia is an Islamic state. It is therefore not surprising that although there is an inter-faith council, all religions are represented in the council, but not Islam. It is also shocking that the courts have made rulings which imply that syariah law supersedes the jurisdiction of civil law.

Prime Minister Dato Abdullah insists there is freedom of religion, but the syariah court determines otherwise, and refused an applicant to change her religion.

Cultural freedom is also lacking in education. Mother tongue schools are not given the same treatment as national schools. In a multicultural society, all cultures must be accorded just and equal treatment. in practice, the Barisan government gives miserly allocations to mother tongue schools.

VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL FREEDOM!.

RULE OF LAW HAS DETERIORATED UNDER THE BARISAN GOVERNMENT.

The shocking revelations of the Lingam Commission of Enquiry indicate that the integrity, credibility and independence of the judiciary have been comprised. The impression is given that judges can be bought and sold like chattels and goods in the market. it is quite evident that rule of law has been corrupted by wheeling and dealing in the courts.

Because the highest levels of justice have been corrupted, it is not surprising that it has a corrupting influence down the chain of administration of law and order.

This has set a bad example for the whole country resulting in a decline of morals and an increasing crime rate. Security has become a major problem, and the people are afraid for their lives and property.

VOTE FOR CHANGE TO HAVE RULE OF LAW, FREEDOM FROM THE THREAT OF INCREASING CRIME!

FREEDOM OF SPEECH CLAMPED DOWN BY BARISAN

Contrary to world trends towards more democracy, the Barisan government has suppressed press freedom more and more. under PM Abdullah, Malaysia’s World Press Freedom index slipped from 104 in 2003 to124 in 2007

Peaceful demos internationally accepted as human rights are outlawed in Malaysia.

Freedom of speech is banned in colleges and universities

This is a regressive law and resembles the harsh ban on free speech in communist countries, and causes them to fall behind in economic development.

Countries like Finland and Norway with free speech, the students and people are inspired with creativity and innovations. they are top countries with the highest per capita incomes and great competiveness.

Reject the backward Barisan’s policies of the communist era.

VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND ASSEMBLY

CORRUPTION AND CRONYISM HAVE MARGINALISED THE AVERAGE MALAY, CHINESE AND INDIAN AND MADE THEM POOR

Corruption is a cancer eating into the political, economic and social development. Transparency International states that the corruption perception index of Malaysia in 2007 ranked 43 out of 163 countries, far behind Singapore, Denmark, New Zealand.

It is widespread and rampant, every department is affected.

Government contracts are never on open tender but are given to cronies and well connected personalities.

The NEP has legalised corruption. The 30% quota has been used to enrich Umnoputras and cronies. APs for privileged and connected UMNO leaders have made them millionaires overnight.

Unfortunately, poor Malays continue to be poor and they have been marginalised

The average Malaysian whether Malays, Chinese or Indians or indigenous natives has been marginalised.

The 9th Malaysia plan figures show that the average household income per month was

Malay household RM 2711 or RM 540 per person
( 5 persons)
Indian household 3455 or 659 per person

Chinese household 4437 or 880 per person

According to economists, the poverty line for Malaysia is RM 1200 per person. The figures above indicate that the average Malaysian whether Malay, Indian or Chinese is all living below the poverty line

PM Dato Abdullah boasts that the poverty rate has been reduced to 6%, but the average household income statistics indicate that the average Malaysian has been marginalised.!

VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR A CLEAN, HONEST AND EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT

269 Replies to “Vote for Change to ensure that Malaysia is United, Prosperous and Progressive”

  1. Yes, reading the Barang Naik manifesto makes one think that the BN leadership is living in a totally different world from the rest of the people. Peace, security, advancement – these are distant dreams for the majority of the people. Instead we have unsolved crimes, degradation of real incomes, theft of public funds, and the subordination of the judiciary to the executive.

    The last 4 years under Badawi has been a blur to many people, and income disparities have widened. UMNO Youth executive committee members drive Bentleys and take holidays in Europe and Australia. What do they know about poverty ? MCA has a crook standing in Gopeng – and this guy has a file that is so thick with the authorities that he will, if elected, remain subservient to UMNO.

  2. My 6 year old son once asked me, “Dad, I heard the word Bumiputra from my friend in school to-day. What is the meaning of Bumiputra?” I hesitated and then answered ,”It means Son of the Soil” Dad, “I am a Malaysian. I was born here. Am I a Bumiputra?”
    I couldn’t answer him this time.

  4. The poster for Barisan Rakyat as published in RPK’s MT website looks great and patriotic enough for sure. Perhaps also that one of the manifesto of the Barisan Rakyat is to establish a “Bangsa Malaysia” which the BN never dare to declare all this while due to unknown reasons.

    This will be a good point to tap on actually. In addition, the Barisan Rakyat for sure should can get good support this time round especially from the Indian and Christian communities who’ve not been in the good books of the government lately due to the following :

    Indian Community – Being marginalised in various aspects as compared to their Bumiputera counterparts, from education, getting jobs at public service, deprived business opportunities and many still living in poverty that resulted in some of them turning to crime and becoming a public menace. The recent Hindraf rally speaks for itself.

    Christian communities – Dissatisfaction among Christians towards the government have been known due the following facts :
    i) Banning the import of bibles from overseas and prohibiting the printing rights of bibles in Bahasa Malaysia
    ii)Restriction and many red tapes enforced for the building of churches, that resulted in many churches without any choice but to have their services in shop houses instead. In Terengganu for example, there is no Catholic church buildings or even Protestant ones, like the ones you can find here in KL but ironnically this is not the case in Kelantan under the PAS led government.
    iii) The issue on the use of the word ‘Allah’ recently, that created a threat to most BM speaking christians here and also almost resulted in the Catholic newspaper “Herald” license to operate not being extended.
    iv) Unfair court decisions when it comes to conversion of religion.
    v) Body snatching and even snatching of christian educational materials from local bookstores on the pretext that these materials are a threat to national security it seems as they can create confusion among the Muslim community (please la… )

    Therefore, reach out to this group of people as the factors above are good enough for these group of voters (who’re now on the fence perhaps)to swing to the oppostion party easily. This will ensure the opposition gaining the extra crucial votes as these communities form the ‘balancing figures’ of the votes that may decide a party winning or losing.

  5. Dear Mr DAP life advisor,
    I am glad that without fail you have continue to voice your deep-rooted sentiment of the Malaysian affairs. The issues raised were clear and comprehensive.
    Yes, Vote for change.

  7. “Yes, reading the Barang Naik manifesto makes one think that the BN leadership is living in a totally different world from the rest of the people.’ Godfather

    Indeed they are!

    They live their lives insulated from the pains and sufferings of the very people they have been elected to represent – the typical life style of the corrupt and the unconscionable. Should the prices of essential commodities rise four-fold tomorrow do you think it has any impact on their life style? Zilch!

  8. I was reading the letter from readers in Malaysiakini titled
    “Don’t license BN to rob” dated feb27,2008
    http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/78772

    One part particularly concerned me is this extract:
    “…Even the approved permits (APs) for the importing of turkeys last Christmas were given to bumiputera companies. Since when was Umno so concerned about Christmas? Open your eyes and see who the import permits for the importing of mandarin oranges for the Chinese New Year were given to. Are there no credible Chinese businessmen in Malaysia? Has Ong Ka Ting or Lim Keng Yaik uttered a single word of protest? I dare not dream of it.”
    The mandarin orange he refers is recently or the one happened many yrs ago? Can anyone shed some lights on this?

  9. I think it is safe to say , all genuine visitors to your blog will be voting for change. I am not sure if my friend who was at Guan Eng’s ceramah last night heard the right thing but apparently even he acknowledged the opposition will not be able to deny BN the 2/3 majority. That will be a great disppointment and whatever change we hope to see will not take place. Well, who knows , some miracle may yet materialise, come March 8th.

  11. Loyal Malaysian let all of us keep our fingers cross! denying 2/3 will be a great achievement to move on. I really hope Barisan Rakyat will do it. GO and all your friends, relatives, whoever you know vote out BN!

  12. Fact:Base on annual Per capita income 2007 In Asia, Msia is also behind Japan,Macau, Brunei, and the China cities, Shanghai, Beijing Guangzhou n Shenzhe.
    Surely, more Asia countries / cities will join this list by 2020 if Msia continued to be ruled by this Bullshit n Nonsense group

  14. To those who support & vote for bn

    You are not only betraying this country but also committed a grave sin against your descendents & their descendents in the long haul. The almost irreversible harm against future generations will also set this country back many decades to recover. You may get immediate gains from the foolish acts (however illogical) but you will bear the fatal consequences for a long long time.

    Pls consider these words of warning.

  15. Yes, denying BN of 2/3 majority is the opposition’s target & our resposibility. Our future depends on it.

    While I am happy that the opposition parties have made a progress in ensuring 1 to 1 match in WM, I’m really disappointed that in Sarawak, Dominique Ng of PKR & Wong Ho Leng of DAP are still fighting against each other in Newspaper everyday. What a Shame! Ng called on DAP to withdraw in Stampin & Wong is calling for DAP to stand in Padungan for State election which is still very far away. How to beat BN like this? Can’t the national leaders do something? At least keep their mouths shut for the time being & concentrate in the GE.

  16. DAP has been receiving much positive reviews on Malaysiakini.

    I advise DAP not be over-confident or become complacent simply because there are “full house”, “thunderous applause” and “concert-like atmosphere” in these ceramahs.

    Do not rest until polling day. Chinese voters may come to your ceramah and cheer for you and donate to you, but they might still vote the damn Dacing on election day, especially for the state seats.

    Sabah electorate are being neglected. Hardly any DAP activity.

    Why?

    The Great Malaysian Crab Metaphor: http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/02/overheard-racist-but-true-malaysian.html

  17. YB Lim, BN ads in TV with this slogan “vote for malaysia” /”undilah untuk malaysia” is very misleading to voters.

    BN is just a political party ally, they are not representing Malaysia at this election stage.

    Can DAP lodge a formal complaint with SPR and also United Nations for BN one side tilted campaign?

  18. DAP is a multi-racial party. Over the years, DAP has fought for all races. But why DAP only choose to contest in Chinese Majoriy areas & in Sarawak with only Chinese candidates?

    PKR is giving it a good try this time in Sarawak. At least PKR contest in Malay majority seats with Chinese candidates. Good try.

  20. Although DAP is multi-racial party, but its image as a Chinese based party was molded long time ago. PKR as a new party does not has historical burden and can start fresh as a multi-racial party led by a Malay and accepted by various races.

    Dual party system only can really exist in Malaysia with opposition frond led by a Malay like Anwar.

  21. our PM are shameless, selfish, literally wolf in sheep skin, for fifty years they lied and is still lying to us in the age of internet and mobile phones. he and his elite club members are in different league now, perhaps yachting and philharmonic orchestration may interest them. They go around in tuxedo and clubbing up town while you brag about where to get best roti canai.

    So are his cronies, but one thing for sure, There is disparity in their club, those who have a dynasty line and those who don’t.
    They is also those who are new faces in the club but not knowing they are called in just to make up the quantum.
    Just think again, what is so damn special about you that they allowed you to joined their club, play ball with them,,huh i am not too sure about that you find out soon enough.

    And for those who have a friend being called in to join in their club , your friend just enroll to have a chance of a life time, and be part of a disintegrating club and be the one to be blamed. Hey don’t you know the tin has run out, let those fools get the tailings for us and dump the bloody mine and those fools on your way out.

    joined into their club, think again , you are too late, it is a sunset club now, they is no more doe, the golden chersonese is no more golden , the old trick cannot be use anymore , it is an internet world , wireless communication , the people are netizens.
    you dont have to tell me what is best and what is good , my son can tell me that.
    You will be remember as the stupid fool who thought those type of club can help you be what you want to be and help other people-ah , you have been conned and blinded by nobody but your own ego, wake up my fellow malayan.
    Their system is matured under their hand, you are allowed to join but you cannot do anything but to serve not the people but your club masters to achieve their agenda.
    Get out before it too late , your son will not forgive you.
    But you can still vote for the opposition, your conscience will forgive you.

    Vote like all malaysian , deny them the 2/3 majority, and it is just the begining.

  23. Vote wisely…Vote for change…Vote for a better tomorrow…Vote for our children’s future…Vote to beny BN two third majority…Vote to smash OMNO political haegamony.

    VOTE OPPOSITION this coming 8the March 2008 GE.

    Enough is enough…after 50 years of rotten gorvenance…brain drain…racial based policies and inequality.

    This is the time to vote OPPOSITION for fresdom, justice, equality for all Malaysians.

  24. Very meaningful post. Made really sad for our children.

    Wise Voter: My 6 year old son once asked me, “Dad, I heard the word Bumiputra from my friend in school to-day. What is the meaning of Bumiputra?” I hesitated and then answered ,”It means Son of the Soil” Dad, “I am a Malaysian. I was born here. Am I a Bumiputra?”
    I couldn’t answer him this time.

    “I’m a Malaysian but I’m afraid they won’t let me be one”. Sad…

  25. I keep reading about calling for volunteers to be polling and counting agents as well as doing other works on behalf of DAP during election. While it is a noble cause for those who are willing and able to do, I think it is time DAP seriously look at building up its war chest so that the party can really finance its operations. Depending on volunteers is so piece meal and unpredictable. We need to pay party workers no matter how unpleasant I feel when writing this. DAP must campaign for donation and contribution throughout the year to build up its financial strength for the future. To ask for donation and contribution just before or during the election is a little too late. DAP must build up its financial strength so that when next election come along, the party will have the financial resource to organise and pay party workers to carry out the job. It is time to change the party organisation and management. The PJ DAP headquarter has remained unchanged since in the 1970s. To change, we need money to make it happens. We must make DAP the party of choice of the young, encourage as many young people as possible to join the party and during non election time organise political awareness courses and other activities for them to mingle. The party must have medium and long term strategic goals. It must harbour ambition to govern this country someday.

  26. I’m sad to think that after this election, BN will still have it’s 2/3 majority. It’ll take all 2nd. class Malaysians’ votes to deny BN that. But the majority of Malays will never vote for the opposition. Especially in Sarawak, no way. They think the BN is everything, the defender of the rights. The only hope is that the non-Malays all vote for opposition. If not, they’re $#^&%&2 I’m speechless.

  27. Malaysia is saddled with illnesses.The best approach we can take is to vote in strong opposition parties in this 12th GE.

    Malaysia needs your vote, Malaysian.Teach BN a lesson so that it will do soul-searching after the GE.

    If BN is denied two-thirds majority in the Parliament, it is predicted that more changes will take place.

    All the electors wake up, vote for change.

  28. “Depending on volunteers is so piece meal and unpredictable.” limkamput

    After having pledged limb and money for the cause, it is so limkamput….! To critize the DAP war machine in such a naive fashion.

  29. I once worked along a river in seremban, beside the river is the railway station, it is still there.
    An beside the station are godowns used previously by HArrison and Crosfield.
    Just at a road junction there was our smelly black house owned by Lee Rubber.
    This place is just about where it was once a busy depot, bustling with life and activity.
    Well , sorrylah it is gone.
    And so is the community that reside by the river, incidentally a KTMB worker quarters commonly referred as coolie quarters a name left by the malayan days.
    Ever since we have railways, we have KTMB coolie quarters, it was around 1996 and i like to share our malayan ways with some of you who may be too preoccupied and moved by our newspaper headlines, ..believe me they still used buckets system there.

    And when I saw the big sign boards along the toll hiways, space what what..angkasawan. I read ANGKASAWAN – NAH.
    not enough to eat, not even enough to wear, want to talk about angka-angka-nah. $999999999-nah and space technology.

    Vote those swindlers out of the parlimen and out of the people’s face.

  31. Please vote for DAP. It’s a shame that I won’t be able to vote since I’m still in UK. Otherwise, I would certainly vote for DAP in Klang.

    Hopefully, we can deny BN’s two-thirds majority this time, and topple them next time.

  32. DAP and all the other opposition parties….GALVANISE yourselves…be EFFECTIVE..and you WILL have a lot more support..later all of you shud be under a single umbrella party..Barisan Rakyat…BR…spread this as soon as possible..

  33. Limkamput:

    “DAP must campaign for donation and contribution throughout the year to build up its financial strength for the future. To ask for donation and contribution just before or during the election is a little too late. ”

    Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of time here and now to dwell on such issues.

    There is only a small window and there is an urgent need for funds and volunteers especially from among those who are unable to contribute financially. They owe it to the party they say they believe in to lead this country, to come out and help as volunteers. Fortunately the time allowed for campagining is short. If you mean what you say you could take leave from work to travel to places where the Party needs you. If you are retired you could ask God for leave.

    Now is the time to match words with action.

  35. We want to have a stronger alternative voice in both the Houses…so that those in power wud hesitste to abuse power…we are certainly NOT anti our own beloved country…we want a bettter malaysia for all malaysians…

  37. “Please vote for DAP. It’s a shame that I won’t be able to vote since I’m still in UK. Otherwise, I would certainly vote for DAP in Klang.” Lee Wang Yeng

    You could make sure all family members including extended family members go out and cast that vote. Call them by phone to individually ask that they vote for the Opposition in constituencies where DAP is not contesting. Explain why.

  38. i just don’t get it with BN component parties!
    here, parties like PKR, PAS are willing to accept all non-bumis malaysian as one as a true malaysian, and yet, those no bolas still stick and support BN UMNO, which still stand with their ketuanan concept! in the first place, this is what we non-bumis malaysian have been fighting for…

    so it seem, those component leaders are more interested in protecting their own interest rather than the rakyat!
    so wake-up BN component supporters, what do you want, another 50yrs to be sideline and be treated like a pariah…

  41. Another BAD NEWS!

    BARISAN NEPOTISM is leading by 12-1 now! Another PKR candidate gives up his seat. Why these people are so corrupt? It is so depressing to hear that BARISAN NAJIS is leading so far ahead.

    Can legal action be taken against party traitors? These scums betray the trust given by their party members.

    Can we have a law to prevent this kind of thing from happening? Or at least why don’t opposition parties like DAP and PKR have back up candidates. If the candidate does not show up on nomination day, then the back up candidate will take over?

    How much BARISAN NAJIS paid these former PKR candidates?

  46. Now is the time to match words with action. undergrad2

    I am not sure you are directing at me. Anyway, if you care to read my posting in totality, I think I have alluded to the fact it is already too late. It is just my reflection of the party machinery and the campaigning that is going on now. I suddenly feel that the party machinery is so rudimentary.

    Like many others, I think each of us will do whatever we can for this election. I am just looking into the future a bit, that is all. I never doubt others of their commitments to the cause. I wish others will do the same to me. Remember, I was the one who started to ask for donation in this blog on behalf of the party even before Sdr Kit put up his appeal.

  47. “Can legal action be taken against party traitors? These scums betray the trust given by their party members?”

    Are you kiddin’?

    They could cross the floor of Parliament anytime after they are elected – a betrayal of the constituents who put him or her in Parliament to represent them! At keast in this case they are declaring who they really are early in the process.

  48. THE OPPOSITION PARTIES SERIOUSLY NEED TELEVISION STATIONS!!!! INTERNET ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH!

    BARISAN NAJIS as always is misusing RTM & other TV stations to tell lies during election. Ignorant folks can easily be brainwashed.

  49. If forced to choose between BN and PAS, I would choose the former, because it is a lesser evil.

    PAS’ religious agenda make it a strange bed-fellow with DAP’s ‘Malaysians First’ and PKR’s ideology of ‘justice and egalitarianism’. I’m afraid any association with PAS will be detrimental to DAP itself. We should encourage people to give more support to DAP and PKR to deny BN’s majority, rather than spreading out the support between DAP, PKR and PAS.

  50. “Remember, I was the one who started to ask for donation in this blog on behalf of the party even before Sdr Kit put up his appeal.” lilmkamput

    Which is the reason why you should be putting your shoulders to the wheel of ‘change’ and help DAP overcome its uphill task.

  51. “If forced to choose between BN and PAS, I would choose the former, because it is a lesser evil.” Lee Wang Yen

    It is not hard to understand the sentiment. But it is harder to understand why you fail to recognize the fact that PAS will never come close to form a bloc in our federal Parliament, and a vote for PAS where DAP is not contesting would help strengthen the voice of the Opposition!

  52. Pingback: Sivin Kit’s Garden » Random Links 226 ("Election Before Sleep Edition")

  53. Malay votes are being split 3-ways in ways they have never been before. I sense that the MCA has been losing their traditional base of supporters as many come to realize that this country is at a cross roads of history like it never was before – and I think they want to be a part of that history.

  54. Lee Wang Yen Says: I’m afraid any association with PAS will be detrimental to DAP itself.

    1. May I know what is the significant difference between UMNO and PAS today?
    2. As I see it, for the Non Malays to share power, the Malays must be divided right in the middle. And the only way to do it is to make PAS slightly stronger.
    3. Between PKR and PAS, voting for PAS has greater possibility of dividing the Malays. Say what you like, PAS is definitely stronger than PKR.
    4. Just look at BN, the only Malay party is UMNO. All the Non Malays component parties be they Chinese, Indians, Kadazan or others have more than one parties representing each community. What does that tell you? We must divide the Malays the way the Non Malays are divided. Not to vote for PAS to me is not a very smart move.

  55. “I’m afraid any association with PAS will be detrimental to DAP itself. ”

    A disgruntled Malay fast losing confidence in the UMNO leadership would vote for PAS or PKR. DAP is not an option for this type of voter motivated as he or she is more by race and religion then ideology.

    Would you rather see his vote go to BN by putting a DAP candidate?

  58. …and limkamput, what did I say about Barack Obama?? I believe him to be the next U.S. President. I don’t trust Hilary because she is less than honest with her views and is too closely identified with special interest groups to be able to lay claim to ‘change’ from the old Washington politics which is what is needed.

  59. Can DAP and PKR merge? I am afraid that is not possible even though I would like to see them together without PAS. Furthermore, some or many PKR members cannot be trusted. They can easily be bought by UMNO.

    Why don’t opposition parties in Malaysia (except PAS) merge? I know it is difficult because all party leaders should forget the ambition of becoming PM. Something need to be done to end BARISAN NAJIS regime. BARISAN NAJIS needs to be humiliated. After 50 years, they have become arrogants.

  61. Another PKR candidate gives up.. and we still have people clamouring about a Barisan Rakyat. Let’s face it, amongst all the parties contesting in the elections, only the DAP has demonstrated the consistency and the history of being a truly Malaysian party. No one else. All other contests are in actuality a contest between the lesser of two evils, which at present are either PAS or PKR.

  63. “Can DAP and PKR merge? I am afraid that is not possible even though I would like to see them together without PAS. Furthermore, some or many PKR members cannot be trusted. They can easily be bought by UMNO.”

    It will take years if that is going to happen at all. PKR is all about Anwar Ibrahim and once he is gone the Party is also gone. PKR is a splinter group of UMNO, comprising of members who were left out to dry by their leaders and resentment has been simmering for a long while. Their loyalty has always been suspect and when one reads of defections and no-shows, no one should be surprised.

  66. Lee Wang Yan, I believe you are one of those who holds very strong religious prejudice! And you are not about to change. and I would prefer you stop commenting at this site for the good of the OPPOSITION at this GE. Do take the trouble to listen the Mr. Hu of Kelantan about Non- Bumis’ experience in that state! You seem to be haunted by the same fear that you said Pas has got!!

  67. “It will take years if that is going to happen at all. PKR is all about Anwar Ibrahim and once he is gone the Party is also gone. PKR is a splinter group of UMNO, comprising of members who were left out to dry by their leaders and resentment has been simmering for a long while. Their loyalty has always been suspect and when one reads of defections and no-shows, no one should be surprised.”

    And undergrad2 has hit the nail right on the hand. Bravo! If it weren’t for the elections, I can list down all the reasons for my scorn of PKR, and why I dislike this whole talk of a Barisan Rakyat.

  68. Undergrad2, why suddenly about Obama? I did not say anything bad about Obama. I only said at that time that the nomination process was not over. I have no preference for either of them because I have no idea how they will perform. But one thing is sure – which potential president did not campaign on the basis of change. So far I only know Obama is a good orator. I am not sure whether he is a good thinker, worker and strategist. We shall see of course.

  69. I agree with you that I do not make a good politician. I’m simply someone attracted to DAP’s ‘Malaysians First’ ideology. As I see it, PAS does not share this ideology at all.

    The most ideal situation would be:
    2008
    DAP – 37
    PKR – 37
    PAS – 1

    2012/3
    DAP – 60
    PKR – 60

  71. undergrad2, you are wrong. The DAP has an idealogy, which everyone knows is the Malaysian Malaysia battlecry. Secular state and social democracy and everything like that. It has shown throughout its history, that it is consistent with that. Even PAS has an idealogy – Islamic state, theocratic government.. Well, I am strongly opposed to that, but hey it is an open ideology. But PKR? Well, sorry folks, nearly 10 years on and I’m still looking.

    On the other hand, you are right, ideology is not what separates DAP and PKR. It’s so many other factors as well. Some personal. Some political. Oh well, come what may, let’s just vote for the Opposition on the 8th of March – whoever they may be. I just hope that if the 2/3rds majority is broken, it will remain broken.

  73. By ideology I mean I do not read of an economic plan, or calls for a smaller or a bigger government, higher or lower taxes, plans of how to stop the faltering economy, or a free trade pact with countries in the region or of any foreign policy of how to handle regimes like Myanmar etc.

  74. mycroft Says: Oh well, come what may, let’s just vote for the Opposition on the 8th of March – whoever they may be. I just hope that if the 2/3rds majority is broken, it will remain broken.

    Yes, no need to think long and wide now. This is the only thing we should be agreeing now.

  75. It seems to me that ‘Malaysians First’ and ‘justice and equality for all peoples’ are close enough for DAP and PKR to form an alliance.

    BN pays lip service to racial equality. UMNO’s real agenda revolves around ketuanan Melayu. Meanwhile, PAS’ agenda is an Islamic theocracy. In a multi-racial and multi-religious nation, these agendas cannot be accepted.

    I’m not opposed to PAS because I’m a non-Muslim. Nor is it because I have any prejudice against Islam. I’m opposed to PAS simply because it has an aspiration for an Islamic theocracy. In fact, I’ll oppose any attempt to set up a Christian theocracy in Malaysia although I’m a committed Christian. This is because any form of theocracy is not suitable for a multi-religious Malaysia. This has nothing to do with my personal religious views.

  77. “I’m not opposed to PAS because I’m a non-Muslim. Nor is it because I have any prejudice against Islam. I’m opposed to PAS simply because it has an aspiration for an Islamic theocracy. ”

    Really? I believe you are young and youth has a way of distorting our views more than we are willing to admit.

    I do not think PAS leaders themselves believe that they could establish an Islamic state. They are a lot smarter than that!

  78. If anybody so much as hint that Malaysia could one day be an Islamic state, that syariah law will oust civil law based on the English common law, he should have his head examined. There is no way this is going to happen in a country with a 40% non-Muslim population!

  79. “Lee, excuse me for saying so but you would not make a good politician. Limkamput would make for a better politician because most of the time he has both feet firmly on the ground.” – undergrad2

    What a compliment! :D

    I agree, you may be right!

  80. I do not think PAS leaders themselves believe that they could establish an Islamic state. They are a lot smarter than that! undergrad2

    Hmmm, you quite smart. I think i can’t disagree with you. Need to go bed now. bye bye.

  81. ::applauds Lee Wang Yen:: Bravo, Lee! At least about the theocratic state issue.

    Anyway, undergrad2, honestly speaking, if based on economic platforms alone and from the manifestos of each party, I will not vote for any of them. But oh well, I guess in an election, you have to promise people bread and circuses. Unfortunately, in reality, bread and circuses make for very poor fiscal policy. Might win you votes, but if you try and practice that, you will end up with a huge deficit.

    By the way, since you are in the US (or at least I hink you are) is Dubbya the most fiscally irresponsible President in memory? His policies of tax cuts, tax cuts, and spend spend spend.. mostly on military.. does make it seem to be that way. Kinda like the BN at times also with their spend spend spend budgets.

  83. YB Lim
    Our BN goverment useless and hopeless.They only take good care of their own family members. I believe after election, Pak Lah son in law sure will be appoint to be a minister as what our former PM Mahatir said Pak Lah know nothing, just follow his son in law instruction.It’s time for change on 8/3/08 In such good oppunity for all Malaysian to make a right choice to deny 2/3 majority. If we miss this time, i think no more hope in future.

  84. Maybe! Maybe we can argue that PAS leaders only pay lip service to the aspiration of a theocracy to woo religious Malays. Maybe we can argue that these leaders do not really have a desire to set a a theocracy because they know deep down in their heart that it can hardly realise.

    But we’ve got to be careful with this kind of arguments. BN supporters can use exactly the same reasoning to argue that DAP only pays lip service to Malaysians First ideology to woo those who feel that they have been treated like second-class citizens, but deep down in their heart, they know that it is unlikely to do away with some sort of Malay and Islamic dominance, given the political realities in Malaysia. So DAP’s Malaysians First ideology is a lofty and unrealistic slogan that even DAP leaders do not believe in the bottom of their heart.

    Of course, I do not accept the cluster of (projected BN) arguments presented in the second paragraph. For the same reason, I reject the cluster of arguments in the first paragraph.

  85. undergrad2, why wouldn’t it be possible to establish an Islamic state here? All it needs is just a subservient and naive population and enough “loud” people to cow people into obedience. With due respect, we’ve lived long enough under Ketuanan Melayu, what is going to be the difference with Ketuanan Islam?

  87. Ah Beng: It doesn’t harm to vote for PAS since (1) there are no realistic chances of setting up a theocracy, and (2) these PAS leaders do not genuinely harbour this aspiration deep down in their hearts.

    BN supporter: It’s pointless to vote for DAP despite their noble ‘Malaysians First’ slogan, since (1) there are no realistic chances of racial and religious equality in Malaysia, and (2) these DAP leaders do not genuinely harbour this aspiration or genuinely believe that this aspiration will realise.

  90. I am not sure if my calculations are correct, but I reckon an Islamic state may not be possible because even if UMNO and PAS were to band together to try and push it through, it will never reach two thirds..

  91. I oppose UMNO not because I oppose Malays but because I oppose racism. Should MCA be the ruling party who discriminates non-Chinese in Malaysia, I will oppose MCA too.

    I oppose PAS not because I oppose Islam but because PAS wanted to enforce Sharia law that discriminates non-Muslims. Should a Buddhist or Hindu, etc party wanted to turn Malaysia into a Buddhist country etc, I will oppose this Buddhist, Hindu, etc party the way I oppose PAS.

    That is why when Anwar Ibrahim who is a Malay formerly from ABIM talked about justice for all Malaysian irregardless of race, his speech became music to my ears as I support political parties that is not race based. I hope more and more Malay become like Anwar Ibrahim in the future or better.

    Race or religion based politics should have no place for multi-ethnic Malaysia. We should have political parties that champion Malaysia for Malaysians.

    By the way, is it true that Dr Mahathir admitted that he had wronged Anwar Ibrahim?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=COm3D6FDmwY

    If that is true, then it is great that he finally repented.

  93. Sorry folks to disrupt your debate. I hope you all understand that it cost money and YB Kit has to pay for it, while we are visiting this blog and writting long comments and argueing using up a lot of bandwidth.

    Just to report the ground situation here in Penang. The past few days I had spoken to a few people and had just return from the PKR ceramah.

    All the people that I had spoken too are Chinese, has yet to approach the Indians and Malays.

    Following are their views:

    1) Penang Chinese kay boh (CHICKEN). Afraid of change.

    2) Family members are split on who to vote. Older members are still incline towards state for bn and parliament for opposition.

    3) One Chinese does not like DAP and prefer PKR but he is voting at Bukit Glugor where DAP Karpal is standing. I had to convince him for more than twenty minutes that now is the time for change. Whether he will vote for change we will never know.

    4) Funny thing is, quite a few agree with me that Penang Chinese have not wake up yet and they are still taking their chances with mca or gerakan.

    5) Some are still undecided.

    6) An old lady (staunch bn supporter) told me she argue with her family members who keep asking her to vote for the opposition. She said that they keep telling her about corruption which she said it happens to whoever rule this country.
    But I explain to her that the corruption which we are talking about is not one zero, two zeros or even three zeros but more than six zeros. This is not the coffee money type of corruption but the corruption that can bankrupt our country. I told her to go back and think about it.

    7)One of my old friend give me a call after receiving my sms text messages. She ask me who to vote because DAP is not running at her constituency. I told her just cross anyone except the dacing and told her to say the same should others ask her.

    Now on the PKR ceramah. (Bayan Baru area) This is my first time attending PKR ceramah.

    Observation:

    1) Poor turn out, about 100 odd people. Maybe due to rain, which started pouring around 8:30pm

    2) Soft spoken candidates, have no oomhs and power.

    3) Speaker system not powerful.

    4) Weak subject topics.

    5) Free disc.

    6) No request for donations but appeal for volunteers.

    7) Invited guest speaker from DAP, Jeff Ooi. Poor Jeff, after three days, he lost his voice. But he is still the star of the night.

    Will update as I gather more the next few days.

    50 years is ENOUGH
    Vote For A Change
    Vote For Any Opposition
    Give Them A Chance To Change For A Better Malaysia
    Remember bn Is A Useless Grouping Of Self Serving, Corrupt, Dictator, Power Crazy, Racist, Kris waving, etc, etc type of parties.

  94. Malaysian ppl should wake up from the bullshit given by BN.If we give mandate to BN again,finish lah Malaysia.More and more people jobless.No mere investor will invest here because of Rafidah Aziz ask for share from foreigner inveator for bumiputra, where got such stupid investor buta buta give share to Malay,they rather invest in others coutry such as Vietnam,Thailand Indonesia.If our country still lead by same goverment, many country in Asian will over take our country especially economic growth.

  95. Historians who are going to write the history Malaysia for this period of time will no doubt find Dr. Chen’s statement extremely accurate in describing the true condition of the country.

    I would like to challenge members of MCA, Gerakan, SUPP and supporters of BN to deny any part the statement made by Dr. Chen. You must be a lunatic or a running dog of BN to deny the facts as elaborated by DR. Chen.

    To members and supporters of MCA, Gerakan, SUPP and MIC, your descendents will be ashamed of you.

  96. I must admit, for the past few elections, I’ve always being wary of PAS. But then again I don’t have to choose between UMNO and PAS because my constituency is always DAP vs MCA. So easy to choose.

    But for those who are faced with this situation UMNO vs PAS, I say choose PAS. Why? For years we have been misled by bn-media.. all out to scare us about PAS. The bn-media has been playing on our sentiment all along… leading us to perceive PAS as Islamic extremist and so on.

    I spoke to a few of my Malaysian Chinese friends from Kelantan and Terengganu now residing in KL. All concurred that under PAS leadership, things get done much better and faster. No need to bribe. Our religion, our lifestyle remains almost the same (except no gambling). The only thing lacking is federal funds are not distributed to them by bn for development. So obvious bn wants everyone to believe PAS cannot serve the people effectively. However, with limited funds, PAS still manage to serve the state well.. i.e. no discrimination against non-muslim.

    bn.. pooi.. corruption, corruption and more corruption to get things done. I say remove the root cause.. corruption and we should have a better Malaysia.

    Frankly, I am now a believer that PAS is not the threat but BN is. And Harimau thanks for sharing the link.

    The leadership in DAP knows what they are doing when they talk to PAS and PKR. DAP will not compromise on the Malaysia for Malaysian concept. DAP has always champion this since inception and forever will be.

    Voters, the choice is yours. Use it wisely. For me it has always been DAP. Vote Barisan Rakyat to form the government. Let DAP show how best to serve us Malaysians.

  97. Malaysiakini has this scary video of an Indian guy who wsa beaten up by Mat Rempit. The title of the video is :

    ‘I was assaulted by mat rempit in BN shirts’

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=viEAacSrYnI

    The guy is an Indian Muslim. Did the Mat Rempits think that he is a Hindu?

    We should be very careful during election time. Be wary of Mat rempits!

    I heard Kera Jantan supports these Mat Rempits.

  98. “A Dynamic Malaysia “… a better future…

    DAP champion a multi-racial society.

    ” Barisan Rakyat ” stand together, hand in hand,

    >> Malays, Chinese and Indians ,Babas, Pribumi,
    all Sarawakians ,Iban,Bidayu,Murut,Melanau,
    >>> Kelabit, Kayan, Penan,
    .. all Sabahans , Kandazan dusun …….!

    It has field 30 Indian Candiadates.

    Many professionals have joined the DAP throughout Malaysia, Sabah & Sarawak.

    It is a vibrant and multi-ethnic party.

    Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

  99. can someone get Namewee to write a song about justice, integrity, respect, fairness, kindness, prosperity and encourage everyone to vote in the election. I think it will be a very good publicity. Whether it is for BN or Opposition, it is irrelevant, it is the quality that we are looking for.
    For unity and prosperity for all.

  100. “Remember, I was the one who started to ask for donation in this blog on behalf of the party even before Sdr Kit put up his appeal.” limkamput

    You were asked to volunteer and to put your money where your mouth is earlier. But you said you could not volunteer your services for reason or reasons that you could not say! What was that all about??

    Is that because your name is more towards a name like Mat Himpit b. Mat Derus and nothing that sounds even remotely like Lim Kam Put? You’re a fraud!

  104. Dr. Chen starting talking about issues and then he fell back on DAP party lines of talking change. I still think DAP slogan does not reflect the mood of people.

    What voters feel is that things are not fine. They have always known that things was not what it was suppose to be but acceptable. In other words, voters, who have always known it, that the BN formula has a limited lifespan. What they are sensing is that BN formula should change now i.e. before its too late. The problem with Badawi administration is that in large part the formula remain the same, just need tweaking which is what voters think is not the problem.

    On the surface, Badawi promises does not seem very different than what most voters want but in reality his vision and that of voters especially of the urban ones is very different. He is not worried because the rural folks still have not caught up with the sense of change the urban folks have. He is a PM for the rural people and likely make gains but he is clearly out of touch with urban reality.

  105. Come2Papa Says: Is that because your name is more towards a name like Mat Himpit b. Mat Derus and nothing that sounds even remotely like Lim Kam Put? You’re a fraud!

    YOu have no standard. YOU change your handle again. I am 100% confident you are one of these, darkhorse, colonel, or bodo, or godamn singh. Now this is called SPINELESS FRAUD. I DON’T REPORT OR ACCOUNT TO CHEATS COWARDS.

  106. STAR online: Thursday February 28, 2008

    “Najib: Give Barisan four years
    PASIR MAS: Give Barisan Nasional four years to rule Kelantan and kick it out if it fails to deliver, Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak told the Kelantan people.”

    Oh, NAjib, NAjib. Malaysia has given BN 50 long years….ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! BN can now go to hell together with all its coterie of UMNO, MCA, MIC bums! ALL 13 states must vote BN OUT!

  108. VOTE FOR CHANGE. Vote for your birthright. Vote for political freedom, political equality and for BANGSA MALAYSIA. – yes, we all were of immigrants forefathers, like in the USA therefore as in The Federal Constitution clearly states that there is only one category of citizens. we are Malaysians.

    VOTE FOR CHANGE FOR PROSPERITY!

    VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR RELIGIOUS AND CULTURAL FREEDOM!. – without religious freedom – we are might as well be atheists, having no beliefs. Hadhari suppressing other religions, even Islam. SCARY!!!

    VOTE FOR CHANGE TO HAVE RULE OF LAW, FREEDOM FROM THE THREAT OF INCREASING CRIME! – since there is an increase anf not decrease when Badawi came to power, we should not assume things will change with another 5 years. Organised crime boss set free when police had evidence against him, and the investigating CID officer/s were incriminated. Dangerous times ahead, not seen even in TDM’s time.

    VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND ASSEMBLY – without these we are like zombies (walking dead) or might as well be. Society obeying the elite every command – sounds like what the ILUMINATI is doing in the US after 9/11.

    VOTE FOR CHANGE. VOTE FOR A CLEAN, HONEST AND EFFICIENT GOVERNMENT – a leader who does clean his own house of greedy, corrupt members does not deserve any votes. POWER corrupts you know what ABSOLUTE POWER in the Parliament does – DENY BN 2/3 majority..

  109. “Ah Beng: It doesn’t harm to vote for PAS since (1) there are no realistic chances of setting up a theocracy, and (2) these PAS leaders do not genuinely harbour this aspiration deep down in their hearts.

    BN supporter: It’s pointless to vote for DAP despite their noble Malaysians First’ slogan, since (1) there are no realistic chances of racial and religious equality in Malaysia, and (2) these DAP leaders do not genuinely harbour this aspiration or genuinely believe that this aspiration will realise.“ Lee Wang Yen

    Dear Lee Wang Yen, it looks like you still don’t get it. It is all about empowering the opposition parties; it is all about the need to increase the representation of opposition parties, be it in state seats or parliamentary seats.

    Look at it this way, if the representation in the parliament is 95% (ruling coalition party) Vs 5% (opposition parties), do you think there can be an effective check and balance? However, don’t you think that it will be a very different scenario if the representation is, say, 70% (ruling coalition party) Vs 30% (opposition parties)? Can you see the difference?

    Therefore, for all voters, if the opposition parties of your choice are not contesting in your constituencies, just cast your votes to any of the opposition party candidates, be it from DAP/PAS/PKR etc. Remember, the objective is to empower the opposition parties, so it should not matter which opposition party candidate you vote for.

  111. ‘He is not worried because the rural folks still have not caught up with the sense of change the urban folks have.He is PM for the rural people…….’.Bigjoe.

    PM for the rural people is still PM of Malaysia.That’s good enough for him.Remember the determining votes come from the Malay heartland and if you say he directs his attention to that area then one must give him the credit that he knows what he is doing.
    Just take a look at Bush’s performance.How did such an a…..e got a second term in spite of the fact that two of America’s great newspapers New York Times and Washing Post are rooting for John Kerry? That is because Karl Rove his campaign chief knows exactly what he is doing- he goes for America’s heartland the Christian Conservatives and Bush won handsomeely.

  112. Come2papa,

    You should learn to respect a person’s choice to privacy and not question a his/her right to a decision. Just ask yourself what you have to offer.

    Yes it was limkamput who first suggested we donate to DAP on this blog and it was then that I decided to do my small part. Do I have to ‘shout’ that I did so or how much I had donated? I also noticed the ‘amount donated’ was also being questioned by some and I think that was despicable act. I always believe no amount is ever too small. Just do your part and never question others.

    Names mean nothing to us on blogs whether he is Ahmad, Saraswathy, Ah Beng or Marianne or even ‘colonel’, ‘darkhorse’ or ‘earnest dom’! So please don’t create issues! It’s their choice to an identification, never question that.

    I suggest that you either contribute your piece or just read and remain silent. No one is going to call you a dumb if you have nothing to say. Infact that’s what I do most of the time, …read and absorb if it’s worth it.

  114. Samsu Sam loses his marbles:

    Samy says, PKR thugs, why not DAP and Pas. Sin Chew newspaper says the crowd was around 3000, but Samy as usual in a confused could not have counted or assessed the number of people, he was in a state of shock, and says there were 600 t0 700, an illusion, as I told you earlier he is hallucinating or what.

    They, the 3000, 600 or 700 carrying rocks and knives, rocks for what, to build him an altar as he is a Sami, and knives to kill the sacrificial goat – ha, ha, ha, all these time I thought Sami refers to some Hindu Gods but with knives and sacrifice, he is just a village deity. No offense to all Indians.

    Finally he has something nice to say of Hindraf, those 3000, 600 or 700 are not from Hindraf but PKR. What graceful thoughts.

    Liquor, two Tamil dailies, war, cut me, words uttered by him. I did say babbling, please help me to put it eloquently and I will do so.

    Now back to basics, if there were thugs around carrying rocks and knives, the Police and FRU would have dealt with them. See the video, does it show any thugs. For MIC to use thugs, it is not new. Any meeting of Maika or Telecom shares issue, the MIC thugs are there to stifle them from asking questions. Some body jokingly said, MIC is a thug party led by a big thug, what can be done.
    http://aarvidi.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/samy-pkr-samseng-behind-demos/

  115. Dislodging Komala will be no walk in the park, although a local resident offers the view that Malays are “50-50? in their support and that Chinese voters are known to be pro-opposition.
    ‘Disregard rumour’
    Komala discounted speculation that she will be booted out, expressing confidence that she will be able to retain the seat.
    “We have the strongest support, not only from the Indian community, but from the Chinese and Malays as well,” she said after meeting with some 50 supporters near Taman Intan.
    http://aarvidi.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/samy-vellu-mic-kapar-lunas/

    Some obviously think otherwise. One resident said he is upset with Komala, claiming she has not visited Kapar even once following the 2004 elections to listen to the grouses of the residents.
    “We have called her and sent text-messages and she has not replied even once,” he alleged.
    Another resident echoed the comment, and added that it is high time the MIC is taught a lesson.
    “Kena ajar diorang ni sikit bang, tak buat kerja. Harga barang naik, minyak naik, (We have to teach them a lesson, they don’t do their work; the price of goods and fuel has gone up),” he said, asking not to be named for ‘fear of getting into trouble’.

  117. Hey DAP supporters !!!

    You can keep on dreaming la…, no way the current set up of opposition front capable of winning 12th and future general elections !!!. You people are racist…you are good at sowing hatred towards bumitputra..You dont have the credibility to champion the Bangsa Malaysia Concept. Umno under BN is working very hard to strengthen the national type schools by attracting all students from different races and religions to be together in one school. You know, racial integration starts from young i.e during early educations. But you people are againts it. You will die for your chinese and tamil schools existence. If you are really Malaysian Malaysia champions, you should just happily agree to abolish racial based schools and let one day our children learning and playing together in one common national school..Dont you think when Ahmad, Ah Chong and Ramasamy after being together since school days one day will proudly acknowledge themselves as Bangsa Malaysia. But by separating them (because of your racist spirit), Malaysian will never be integrated and united. You have proven to all Malaysian that you are a racist party by hiding from your so called multi racial party.

    Actually, Lim Kit Siang, Karpal Singh, Lim Guan Eng and many more jokers in DAP are only fighting for their own interest. To be popular and in the leading front…They are just complaining, complaining, complaning….and deceiving people. Look at your GE manifesto…! Not convincing at all…!!

    Be realistic, be pragmatic, be progessive, be constructive and VOTE FOR BN !!! HIDUP UMNO….

  118. This squabbles look and smell like some BN rat’s doing, come in to blog sites and cause trouble. Same like what khairy berukludin said he will do, so let’s just ignore this trouble causers and continue with our struggle to deny Barang Naik Regime their sacred 2/3 majority and even form a new BARISAN RAKYAT Government!

    Rakyat of Malaysia! Let’s focus and make our commitment to Vote for Barisan Rakyat!

    VOTE FOR DAP! VOTE FOR PKR! VOTE FOR PAS!

  119. With all the goodies the UMNO led goverment is giving the LAZY Malays why should they vote for the opposition,After 9 NEPs and BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF RM given to them ,still they want more.

    MIC MCA PPP GERAKAN YOU ARE THE REAL GROUP THAT SOULD BE BLAME FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY.WAKE UP VOTE DAP PKR PAS.

  120. Hoi ! Rakyat Teraniaya !!

    You are a loser, how could you call another human being Khairy Jamaludin as Khairy Berukludin. Are you blind !!? Beruk is ugly looks creature but cute and adorable….Khairy Jamaludin is a handsome and rich guy a rising star in political field. He is a very smart guy and full of ideas and energy to bring Malaysia to greater heights.

    But you are a loser…..for allowing yourselves to be so negative towards others..Dont waste your time….

  121. What “a-malaysian” said on 28.2.08 at 02:30.15 is correct, correct, correct!

    DAP/PKR/PAS cannot win and BN cannot be defeated by having people just writing, arguing, and cursing here.

    Action is on the ground and the mind-sets of people/voters have to be changed – people who kept voting for BN out of fear of change have to be encouraged and convinced to make an informed decision: vote FOR DAP/PKR/PAS for CHANGE and a better future.

    Can we who commented here convince our cirlce of relatives and friends to go for CHANGE and vote FOR DAP/PKR/PAS?

  122. Malays are lazy mainly because of UMNO.
    Their defender are ‘playing’ with Malays emotional feelings and make them look BIG in their own small world which built by UMNO.
    Through all those NEPs, how many Malays really benefitted from them ?
    How many ‘cronies’ of UMNO taking from the shares ?
    Hardly, a rightful percentage were given out to rightful Malays because UMNO have bigger plans to execute between their cronies.
    Yet, in every corner of this country, we can see these cronies emerged as Orang Kaya Baru and show off their wealth.
    Is this what Malays are seeking from UMNO ?
    Wake up before your own generations eroding and your rich culture disappeared.

  123. badak,

    Like Chinese/Indian Malaysians, many Malays voted for BN and today many have woke up and have realised the rakyat have been conned the past 50 years. Your ‘one stroke sweep all’ comment that Malays are lazy is uncalled for, unnecessary and most unfair. Not all Malays are lazy and not all Chinese are hardworking either. Remember the ‘lazy’ running dogs in MCA, MIC and Gerakan?

    I call on them to lay down their ‘arms’, withdraw and jump ship now if they have any self-worth or conscience left to just do it. No “ifs” no “buts” and save this nation from further rot, going bankrupt down the chute of doom!

    Let’s go straight to the Polling Station on Sat 8 March 2008, give our precious votes to DAP, PKR and PAS and together change the government. Reject the BN/UMNO, enough of their lies for 50 years!

    Taiwan did it, so did Australia and Pakistan. The ‘wind of change’ has landed on our shores, let’s show BN/UMNO what “People’s Power” is all about!

  124. BN is the government even after the parliment is dissolved. All those silly medias be it newspapers or tvs are all meant to support BN, highlighting those big good lies and make them a big “FACT.”

    And at the same time trying to project the oppositions as the party that want to tear Malaysia off. They don’t even have the balls to face opposition as a REAL man. BNs are cheaters and big fat liars, stealing from the folks and making the bank accounts bigger and bigger.

    Besides, I think the ‘opposition’ shouldn’t be used to describe the non BN parties. It’s so bias and make up an image that these parties are bad and trying to pull down the current silly gov.

    And today NST paper highlight that the silly bodowi said that the goven never lied about the subsidies, yeah he has left out the figure that subsidized their pockets. And FYI, do you believed
    the so-called govern subsidized cooking oil really susidized by the govern? LIAR, they are subsidized by the oil palm plantation owners
    which comes to a figure of close to few hundred millions per month. One owner told me that he loose a Benz every month because of this ruling. But do you think the Malaysia citizen drink to much of oil every month? The balance of course goes into their pocket.

    The BN is a big fat liar!!

    And by the way, I think MCA still have a great number of Chinese supporters. OKT says he defends the chinese society in whatever way he could, yeah he is a numb boy in the parliment when there are issues that involving the Chinese, this goes the same with MIC. Only the DAP make their voices out!

    Those Chinese of you who is reading this, don’t regret it if you pass your vote to BN (MCA). Anything happens after election that disciminate you, don’t complain if OKT or his big liar people could not lend a helping hand.

  125. Lets look at their scorecard since the last elections
    1) Corruption at its worst
    2) More scandals…PKFZ, MAS, Tolls
    3) Crime rate rampant…contrary to what they tell you!
    4) Racial intolerance…closure of Hindu temples and removal of crosses from mission schools and renaming of churches
    5) Racists leaders…kris waving and racial slurs
    6) Non-independent judicial system
    7) Twisting of statistical facts to suit personal agenda
    8) Non admission of the Bangsa Malaysia concept
    9) and the list goes on…

    Our children future and rights are being taken away right under our noses. Are we going to stand there with our hands in our pockets or are going to change things!

  126. We all know that once in a few years we are given the opportunity to vote.
    Why vote? It has no effect on the outcome.
    One vote alone may not count but many votes together becomes a voice to be
    reckoned with. Let your voice be heard.
    This election, more so than others is a vital election because we are at a
    cross roads. If we get it right we will prosper; if we get it wrong, we
    will suffer as we have seen in our neighboring countries.

    To help you decide please ponder these issues:

    Do you think our politicians in power are corrupt?
    Do you think our civil service is corrupt?
    Do you think they are incompetent?
    Do you think the people in power sets themselves above the law?

    Do you think our leadership has lost its way?
    Do you think we are getting more & more divided by race & religion?
    Do you think we have a questionable justice system?
    Do you think that they are wasting our wealth?

    Do you think our children will suffer more?

    Do you want to see change?

    If you say yes to 3 or more of these issues, don’t you think we need
    change? YOU CAN MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN!!!

    Just send this to 10 other relatives or friends and ask them to do the same
    to 10 of their friends and so on. By so doing we are enlisting the power of
    multilevel marketing. Yes the math works and it is awesome. By the 7th
    level this message would reach 1,000,000 people. Yes we can make our vote
    count! Better believe it!! We owe it to ourselves and to our children and
    to their children.

    Malaysia Boleh!
    May the force be with you

  127. If PAS wins many seats in this election they’ll certainly demand to contest in more constituencies in the coming election. We – supporters of DAP – would not want to contribute to the expansion of PAS.

    If PAS loses terribly this time, PKR can then contest in more Malay constituencies next time.

    We can still deny BN’s two-thirds majority if we try our best to put 37 candidates each from DAP and PKR into the parliament. (PAS has already got 1)

    Winning for the sake of winning or for the sake of defeating BN at the expense of our ideology of Malaysians first should not be what we’re after. DAP should be different from those unprincipled leaders in MCA and Gerakan who are only interested in power and have no principles and ideology at all.

  128. If Thailand can change govt without chaos, surely Malaysia can do the same.
    No afraid of BN threat, if got any chaos, U know lah who started it. surely NOT the less powerful oppostions!
    If opposition do win big, neither is there any reason for oppostion to start chaos.

  129. “If PAS wins many seats in this election they’ll certainly demand to contest in more constituencies in the coming election. We – supporters of DAP – would not want to contribute to the expansion of PAS.

    If PAS loses terribly this time, PKR can then contest in more Malay constituencies next time.

    We can still deny BN’s two-thirds majority if we try our best to put 37 candidates each from DAP and PKR into the parliament. (PAS has already got 1)

    Winning for the sake of winning or for the sake of defeating BN at the expense of our ideology of Malaysians first should not be what we’re after. DAP should be different from those unprincipled leaders in MCA and Gerakan who are only interested in power and have no principles and ideology at all.” Lee Wang Yen

    If PAS loses terribly this time, do you think it willl come to an agreement with DAP and PKR not to contest against another in the next election?

    We need to maximise the number of opposition representation, irrespective of party, to check on the ruling government. If voters only vote for opposition parties of their choice (and vote ruling coalition party if opposition parties of their choice are not available), then the number of seat that can be won by opposition parties as a whole will be imited and we are back to square one!

    So, Lee, looks like you still don’t get it.

  130. Time to vote for Jeff Ooi and the Opposition. Exercise your right now!!

    TAK NAK TO PETROL INFLATION
    TAK NAK TO UNBEARABLE EVERYTHING INFLATION
    TAK NAK TO HIGH CRIME
    TAK NAK TO LINGAM SCANDAL
    TAK NAK TO CHUA SOI LEK SCANDAL
    TAK NAK TO CORRUPTION
    TAK NAK TO NEPOTISM
    TAK NAK TO ………….

    http://www.geocities.com/matterofchoice2008/My_page.html

    We need the check and balance for good governance.
    Please do your part. Please call upon all friends and relatives to vote for the Opposition.
    We need to send the right candidates to parliment to voice up for us.
    Penang and Jelutong voters, we need more supports to reject BN parasites going into the Parliment.

  131. If PAS wins big, it will gain considerable bargaining chip in the next election.
    If PKR wins big and PAS loses terribly, the former will gain significant bargaining chip over the latter to contest in Malay constituencies.

  133. While most of those coment in this blog is vote against BN, the challege to vote against BN is far than reaching.

    Majority of Malays still believed NEP can benefit them.

    Majority of Chinese still look for a chinese assciation.

    Majority of people have no access to internet or alternative source of information beside newspaper.

    Majority of Malaysian were blindfolded with BN’s last minutes announcement of public fund allocation for election campaign

    Some effort shall be focused to enlighten those hardcore MCA supporter.

  134. Dear M’sian please read this: I am a 3rd generation born Malaysia Indian. I am in my 40’s, married with school going kids. Successful businessman with enough saving and wealth 4 my kids education and my old life. I have everything in life and don’t need to support any parties to earn my living.

    I have never Voted in any general election even though I were eligible to vote in the last five (5) general elections. It’s going to change this coming 8th March 2008.

    Me, my wife(never voted before), my family members(formerly voted for
    Barisan Nasional), my friends(some have voted before and some never) and my staffs(never voted before-6 of them) will be VOTING and IT’S FOR THE OPPOSITIONS and NOT FOR BARISAN NASIONAL.

    We decided to Vote for our children and the future generations to come. How about you? Just make it happen by joining us many others out there. Help make the changes by getting the others to join us. Please give a serious taught about what I have said.

    Please tell others and convenience others in your circle to VOTE FOR OPPOSITIONS.

  135. We all know the amount of awareness we have currently is something that we never had in the past. However what worries us most is corruption that could make candidates withdraw, excessive phantom votes, dubious postal votes and the condoning of SPR with all these malpractices.
    As voters not only we vote for BR but also must ensure no cheating by BN at polling station.

  136. “So, Lee, looks like you still don’t get it” – kcb. Frankly I also don’t get it!

    The overwhelming majority of those opposed to BN’s policies – and to PAS’s theocracy – would take the position that if it were a straight contest between a BN and PAS candidate, they would support the latter.

    The logic of it is based on three (3) premises: –

    (1) First, no matter the support for PAS, it would not be able to form a government upon theocratic policies based on Malaysian multiracial composition and mainstream’s rejection of PAS in 2004 General Election; (2) second, a longer term enemy of an immediate enemy is a friend, at least temporarily to the extent the collaboration is necessary to rid and evict the immediate enemy; (3) third, after immediate enemy is rid of, then only proceed on how to neutralize the longer enemy.

    Looking again at the premises.

    It is not just a question of giving support to a longer term enemy to rid an immediate enemy. It also depends on which you think is a greater enemy to democracy and proper governance – a racist and corrupt enemy or a theocratic and religiously extremist one.

    If you think a theocratic one is lesser of the two evils, then it would be logical to vote for PAS in a straight contest between its candidate and BN’s but what if one thinks otherwise – what if a theocracy is worse than a corrupt government, assuming one has basis to form this conclusion judging from the experiences around the world?

    It will then be a question of not just giving support to a longer term enemy to rid an immediate enemy, as postulated in (2) above, but more of giving support to a longer term [Greater] enemy to rid an immediate [Lesser] enemy. Now is that logical and sensible to support a Greater enemy?

    In evaluating that, part of the equation is whether it is true or otherwise premise no (1) that PAS would not be able to form a government (in due course) because or in spite of this initial support.

    How valid however is such an assumption as poster mycroft raised?

    If PAS has no potential in this respect why then is BN trying to outdo it in Islamisation?

    Also PAS does not need to show its true face at this moment. Right now it is not even mentioning about the “Islamic state” and is in fact fielding as candidate a non muslim!

    Why would anyone discount that it is not a mere strategy on PAS’s part to, for the time being, (sacrifice their goal temporarily) to win confidence of non muslims to get their support to rid the BN before (regaining its goal in longer term) of showing its true face thereafter when and if the Opposition does eventually win with it being, in reality, the dominant malay based party instead of PKR leading the pack to form the government?

    What Lee Wang Yen has done in last posting is to articulate how that strategy of PAS – this strategy of giving up short term for long term goal attainment – works and how not to be beguiled by such a strategy and yet advance the cause of democracy. [If PAS wins many seats in this election they’ll certainly demand to contest in more constituencies in the coming election. We – supporters of DAP – would not want to contribute to the expansion of PAS. If PAS loses terribly this time, PKR can then contest in more Malay constituencies next time. – Lee Wang Yen].

  137. Perhaps this discussion is relevant to Lim Guan Eng and Ong Tee keat’s debate over who is the bodyguard of whom.

    Those who accuse the MCA of being a bodyguard for UMNO should not be a bodyguard for PAS, however unwittingly.

  139. In terms of DAP’s political ideology and to its supporters, BN is but only an immediate enemy at the gate is arguably less formidable, for he, his weakness and strength are known.

    Comparing BN and PAS –

    · BN preaches democracy and practices the contrary. Still the laws are man made though Rule of Law subverted.

    · PAS preaches theocracy, which is a different system of thought altogether, and the laws are supposed to be of divine origins.

    For BN, you can still challenge it why it is not practicing what it preaches. In PAS’s case you can’t even because democracy is not what it preaches. It is theocracy.That’s one important difference.

    Talking of alliances, in World War II, Allies were wary of Stalin Communist Russia but because of Hitlerian/Nazi threat, had to form an alliance with the Communist enemy to have common front to fight common enemy – Nazism. The principle of enemy of one’s enemy is one’s friend! The moment Berlin fell, there was a rush and fight for geopolitical positions as Russian troops swarmed over neighbouring states to form the Soviet Empire with satellite East European Countries. Then the Cold War. It took the West another 50 years to see dismantling of the Soviet Empire from within.

  140. I don’t like PAS because of its over-emphasized on religion and lack of contemporary view. Having said that, I don’t like UMNO as well. UMNO treats MCA and MIC as subordinate rather than as partner. In other words, they perceived minority as someone who should subordinate to them. It is unpalatable to UMNO for concepts such as bangsa Malaysia , equality under the sun, or meritocracy. 40 years ago, Malaysia was started off in the same league with Singapore economically. Today, Singapore has more than 5 times GDP per capita than Malaysia within a generation. Are we on the right track as claimed by BN? For the above reasons, I would not vote for either PAS or UMNO.

  141. We cannot hope to mould political parties to our own liking. Our experience have been that UMNO could have governed this land without discriminating against non-Malays, or competing with PAS to ‘islamise’ the country. They did this based on the ‘ideology’ of getting rich not only for now but for their descendents for generations to come. In the process the people of different races are sensitive to each others, but never trust each others.

    UMNO has ruled this place for 50 years, and they would not change. Non-Malays want UMNO dethroned if possible. Malays who are true believers of the islamic faith might not be comfortable with the ways of UMNO, judging by the votes that went to PAS and PKR. UMNO is our enemy. Our enemy’s enemies are our friends, when the battle is on, even though they might not qualified as our friends on the ordinary day. We do not even have to decide for now between BN and PAS, as a party, which is the worse. For the moment, to stop UMNO continue with its way, we shall vote the opposition. In the constituency between MCA and PAS candidates, we should still vote PAS.

  146. I am from Rawang. When the issue of high-voltage electrical line passing through the village and too near to the school was at the hottest stage last year –

    (1) I didn’t really see any DAP Selangor leaders come to help. Where were they? And they are not here to contest. If they come, I will ask: dare you come here – where were you all these years???

    (2) KEADILAN came to Rawang and setup its office opposite that electrical tower and show their concern. Now they send candiate to contest here, they come here to show they care for us but for the past XXX years they never show up. I doubt the sincerity. I feel like they are just capitalising on one issue and try to win my vote.

    (3) MCA/BN did not settle the issue for us. We know they did not their job too. No need detail description – you all can imagine and you all have said so much that I don’t need to repeat.

    (4) PAS has not been seen at all throughout the whole issue.

    I don’t like those candidates, whatever party they are from, who suddenly appear and show that they care for us, when for XXX years before this – they were no where to be seen.

  147. “If PAS wins many seats in this election they’ll certainly demand to contest in more constituencies in the coming election.”

    Make no mistake about it, PAS could just go ahead to contest in ALL constituencies in the next election even if it wins no seat in this election!!!

    Has PAS agreed on one-to-one contest for the next election?

  148. Dear Lee Wang Yen and people of similar minds,

    SEE THE BIG PICTURE.

    Stop talking about about the theorical hypothesis eg if PAS wins so many seats etc….

    DENY the BN 2/3 Majority.PAS is not as bad as BN makes it out to be.

    If we still tread in the shadow of fear,how can we achieve our main objective of denying BN 2/3 majority.

    Cross the bridge when we come to it.

    Stay ALIVE FIRST by denying the BN 2/3 majority.

    If you cannot deny BN 2/3 majority,you are dead,I am dead, Malaysia is dead.

    Come on LEE,do you have any case of body snatching in Kelantan under PAS.The answer is NO.

    Compare this to those states under UMNO led BN.The answer is YES.

    MCA,Gerakan and MIC cannot do anything about it even though it si a component of BN.

    So stop wasting time and effort contemplating about unfounded fears.

    Concentrate on the task at hand.Deny BN 2/3 majority.

    See the BIG PICTURE!
    .See the BIG PICTURE!
    See the BIG PICTURE!
    See the BIG PICTURE! STAY ALIVE FIRST!

  150. the problem now is political parties are being categorised by ethnic/religion.
    PAS being viewed suspiciously as having the ambition of turning m’sia as an islamic stste.
    DAP being viewed as an anti MCA fighting for equality/meritocracy which UMNO/Malays at large felt very uncomfortable with.
    PKR…i think maybe they fall in the mid category.
    I have a Singapore Malay friend that ask me the below stated question..

    1.Why took until 50 years to realise the discrepancy of treatment among races?
    2.Why now then non-Malays felt the discomfort and anger towards the BN?
    3.Why does MCA though they know of the unequal treatment of races still remain loyal to BN?
    4.Why the mass of non-Malays stll voting for BN for the past years election?
    and the list goes on and on…..
    I am speechless.where do we stand?

  151. Dear Jeffrey,in my constitutuency in my constituency it is BN vs Pas. Given such a situation, would you vote for BN or PAS? kcb.

    Following Jeffrey’s trend of arguments throughout this post I will quite confidently say it is PAS cos Jeffrey’s stand is that the greater enemy or if I may, the greater evil is UMNO.

    But perhaps a better challenge for most people is to ask them between MCA and PAS who would you vote? Here again I would put my bet that Jeffry will vote PAS. For the rest I am not so sure because MCA has a Chinese word in it (Malaysian Chinese Association) and for a lot of Chinese this party will protect Chinese interest simply because of that word being part of the name of the Party.It probably would not occur to them the leaders of MCA would be capitalising on such self sentiments to advance their own self-interests.It would also not occur to many Chinese that voting MCA is voting UMNO the big brother

  152. ///So PKR is not our friend, but the enemy of our enemy?? ///

    If one takes PKR as a friend, then it is a freind, period. When the position is not clearcut, then the enemy’s enemy is a friend, for fighting the common enemy.

  155. A DAP member and supporter should be casting his or her vote for PAS if that helps to strengthen the role of the opposition in Parliament, and not because he or she agrees with what PAS stands. One can understand the feeling of perhaps not trepidation but outrage at the thought of having to vote for one’s traditional enemy. You are not voting for your enemy, not because the enemy of your enemy is your friend but because you would be denying your enemy of a seat in Parliament. A seat lost is a seat denied.

  156. Dear kcb and Ah Pek,

    1. To answer both of you, given a situation of BN (whether UMNO, MIC or MCA) vs Pas, I won’t vote. This is because, having regard to what I think is Malaysia’s longer term interest, I am of the opinion that PAS is a greater evil and therefore cannot vote for it. If I have otherwise thought that BN is greater evil, then I would vote for PAS but the fact is that I don’t : I think PAS is the greater problem.

    2. Having said this, I am mindful that there will be a body of ‘not invalid’ criticisms that I am wasting a vote; that it is not practical and pointless. Well that’s a criticism/burden that I have to bear with as much fortitude as I could summon because I just cannot make myself vote for expedience (based on a greater long term enemy of a lesser immediate enemy is still my friend for now deserving of support) in a manner contrary to my conscience of what I think is ultimately good or not good for our country.

    3. I am also aware that no one could claim monopoly of the truth and what is right, least of all myself. So maybe many of you are right : vote for PAS. However if, after listening to contrary views, my opinion still remains unchanged, I have to follow my own lights as to what is right or wrong. Ultimately we have to do what we ourselves think is right or wrong. By that I mean based on certain principles and not just practical expedience. That is the only sure compass in difficult and complex situations – at least for me. I can’t speak for others.

  157. I forgot to say that not voting for greater evil PAS dies not imply the corollary that I should not waste my vote and therefore should at least vote for the lesser evil, BN. I won’t. If you are evil, whether greater or lesser, you won’t get my support.

  160. Jeffrey is right that we don’t have to vote in that situation. Opting for a lesser evil is only an issue IF one is forced to choose between an evil and a lesser evil. But in the voting situation, the choices are not exhausted by ‘voting for’ and ‘voting against’. There is a third option: abstention.

  164. This is in response to what Undergrad2 commented : “You are not voting for your enemy, not because the enemy of your enemy is your friend but because you would be denying your enemy of a seat in Parliament. A seat lost is a seat denied.” I agree that it is correct that the issue of whether or not to support ‘enemy of your enemy is your friend’ is subtly but distinctly a separate issue from ‘a seat lost is a seat denied’ for the Opposition esp in terms of breaking the all important psychogical threshold of denying BN’s two thirds majority. This is, in my view, subject to one proviso.

    Undergrad2’s position is entirely defensible provided one is of the opinion that there is no costs and danger implicated in the decision to support PAS for now at BN’s expense. ie. with such support PAS will not, in a multiracial society, gain strength and eventually triumph!

    Well I just happen to be those who think PAS will, and therefore there is a cost to all of us, maybe not now but long term. Now between a shorter term view and longer term one, I am inclined to the latter. That is my view.

    I grant that others may think – and therefore would behave and view the casting of vote differently.

  165. It has been some time that I visit our historical melaka, there i was passing through the older part of town ,almost everything i see is 600 years old , hmm of course not the passerbys.

    For me. the best part was the river side and world famous jonker street area , and also lately the other discovered parts of the aFAmosa fort, and where re- building initiatives are in progress.
    Ha,,,this is good for the touristlah..but too late alreadi…. you see lah

    You walk further down , expecting to see the distant beach, what the heck where’s the beach front and the iron Cross where the portuguese planted , gone alreadi loh…dont get hasty , a modern food court aircond and all is made for your conveninece but soory no nostalgia
    Perhaps malaccan can throw some light on the matter,,,please.

    our history, the malayan history with no particular reference of it’s origin or the type of people who had made them or caused it to have had it done that has enjoyed her prominence in the past and has withstand the great world war, WWII , the malayan monsoons,vandalism, thelf, grafitti, and was still left standing until not too long ago has been selectively belittled, demolished, removed and archived somewhere else “for safekeeping” away from $tourist, including you and me. Even at one time the dead were not spare at the hill.

    smaller ancillary buildings facing the beachfront used to be offices of the dutch and english were museums for stamps of the good days i think..but now used for something else and display with other things that does not belong or had close relationship of building dwellers at those particular spots. but I am no expert .

    More so and back in KL similar happening , “le d coq ” restaurant , Jalan Ampang was torn down practically overnight, I hard great set lunches there
    at first the wrougth gate was locked , then the gate was vandalized and robbed because of antique designs or by treasure robbers. Out of a sudden fine day it was flatten down overnight.

    Same goes to that bungalow opposite to Pudu jail, belong to a prominent man in the malayan days, whoosh one night it was gone.

    I used to commute along Jalan TAR, in KL , traffic jams and humid , i still commute , i can go behind Selangor emporium and have chappati,or have curry laksa next store….sorri long time no more.But i can go Doshi and get saddle king for new year, soori nomore crowd lah, Mr Doshi also close shop. Aiya let go Globe silk store get school uniform or some cotton towels,,, soory no more crowd, …
    The whole TAR now is dead street, but it has met some people aspirations.

    I vote for change , a forward change , change not because of ego or other agenda , I vote for my children future, their friends future,
    I vote for those people who dont reengineered other peoples respective cultures, traditions, beliefs, values systems.
    I vote for those people who respect other people cultures, traditions, beliefs, value systems.
    I vote for those people who dare to say what can i do to serve you, and not the other way around,
    You can laugh at this guy now who says ” work with me”.

    I say you can walk yourself to holland.

  166. “…with such support PAS will not, in a multiracial society, gain strength and eventually triumph!” Jeffrey

    It is to be expected that some Malays would rather vote for PAS then vote for DAP because of their long held resentment against what they see as a Chinese party dedicated to denying them of their special privileges, just it is expected that some DAP members would vote for another Chinese political party rather than vote for PAS.

    Voters need and could overcome this kind of sentiment if they believe PAS, by accident or by design, will never be a force to reckon with especially at the federal level, now and in the future. I believe there are enough educated Malays who believe PAS is not a viable option, not a real choice. The country is fast moving away from its one-party dominant system.

  167. Well Jeffrey,

    I read you wrongly for a start and of course you can choose not to vote since that prerogative is yours and yours to make.However you would not then help to solve and turn the sorry state of affairs in this country and to me it is really sad.
    The least we can do is to help solve this coutry’s problem one way or another for by our doing so we can at least harbour the hope that this country’s sorry state of affairs could have at least have a turning point. As it is it is going down and down seemingly into a bottomless pit.Where Malaysia could end, your guess is as good as mine.
    For me my vote is the lesser evil for if we look at the long track record it is PAS that is the lesser evil.How can I say otherwise since politics after all is a human activity and UMNO has a track record of bulldozing down Indian as well as Chinese temples,not giving land for building churches,snatching bodies whereas PAS has none of such shameful acts but in fact has allowed Indian temples and Chinese temples to be built.Politics is not the great
    phillosophical questions starting in the market place of Athens debating down the ages to the present day without any end in sight.

  169. There is a teaching in Islam that Muslims should resort to deceptive strategy of temporary compromise when they are in a weak position, and pursue their real agenda explicitly once they have gained strength. We have to take this into account when we assess the track-record of PAS. When deception is involved, the past is not indicative of the future.

  170. To undegrad2 and others,
    Are all the debates here confusing enough? Tell this to the common folks who are going to vote!!!!

    Sometimes we have move three steps forward and two steps back. We know where we are going, but along the way, we just have to adapt, accommodate and compromise a little. This is part of the process. You can’t win all at one go. Do you think those in PAS and PKR are not thinking and contemplating the same thing? We are no smarter. So, get over with it, just vote oppositions for now. Remember LKY used the communists, the trade unions and even the communalists before attaining power.

  171. Ah Pek,

    In a sense you’re right that based on ‘homegrown’ and local experience, the BN is a proven evil – whilst PAS (based again on home gown experience again) is only (to some of us) notionally a greater potential evil, not really proven as such yet (it has never come to power) – as it is also true that politics is dynamic and things can change from now to then – and therefore on this basis, if you take such a view, your voting for PAS is understandable.

    I emphasize ‘homegrown’ and ‘local’ because based on what I see in the ‘international’ arena, the developments in the Middle East and beyond, the threat of PAS (as well as its potential to widen its base) is real (beyond ‘notional’) to me, and therefore poses a greater threat. I see similarities between PAS and radical Islamic theocracies in large swathes of Middle East.

  172. Umno has also the track record of raping the country’s treasury silly.
    Umno has also a strong record of institutionalising discrimination.Look at the civil service whereby at the time of independence there is 30% participation of non Malays there and what a drop today about 10% at most.Look at the Petronas gas stations …99% owned by Malays.Look at the education budgets alloted to Chinese and Tamil Primary schools,3.5% to the 2 vernacular schools whereas Malay Primary schools get 96.5%.Whilst non Malay kids whose parents earn 1000 ringgit monthly salary are not entitled to school text book loan, Malay kids whose parents earn 2000 ringgit monthly salary are eligible.
    I can go on and on but my point is this has got to end and for PAS to do like what UMNO is doing it has still got a long way to go before they can reach that powerful position that UMNO has reached and by then, again hopefully we hope more Malays, more Chinese, more Indians will think as Malaysians or as Bangsa Malaysia.

  173. It’s true that with their current 7 seats in the parliament, PAS still has a long way to go. But it is a different story if people heed the call here and give them a big win in the coming election.

  174. So a big win by BN led by UMNO is ok? Please don’t continue to talk nonsense here.

    Before you react, please take note that whatever you said here can influence potential voters. I have the right to say that whatever you are saying is nonsensical before more people fall into your half bake intellectual diarrhoea again.

  175. The stronger PAS gets – the more dependent PKR (on which hopes rest) on it (to lead the Malay constituencies) will become. Our task is more to contain PAS in its marginalised role so that PKR can fledge its wings more independently to collaborate with DAP with whom it shares congruence in ideologies.

    UMNO takes 50 years to grow this strong to do as it will because it hems and haws between what it preaches and the contrary that it practises. PAS is different ball game. It has not shown this trait of hem and haw. It is very focused. A big win (for PAS) in this election is one thing but if it is a harbinger of a greater win in two general elections down the road to the extent that Opposition wins more 50% with PAS at the driver’s seat, everyone will have a big problem. At that stage, it does not need another 50 years – just one stroke of the pen to subordinate the constitution under theocratic principles.

  176. Dear Lim Kam Put

    Are you advocating censorship here (ostensibly not to influence potential voters here for the Opposition) ? Don’t you think they are entitled to the presumption that they have minds of their own to evaluate conflicting opinions?

  179. It is because Chinese would not vote for PAS that UMNO was able to ensure that MCA and MIC members are elected and be eternally grateful to UMNO to be their lapdogs. BN could have 92% Malay representatives, but they would not be able to openly declared that their policies are agreed to by non-Malays through their representatives.

    When one can condone Malay racists in UMNO accepting that they had to be overzealous on their way up the political ladder, knowing full well that it is this group of politicians on the way up that are making UMNO ever more racist over the year, it is quite strange that we would reject PAS when it wanted to implement Islamic state. Kelantanese tell us that PAS follows the teaching of the Islamic religion, and the non-Muslims in the state are happy with its administration. So, PAS acts religiously whereas UMNO uses religion for political purposes. Their behaviour is not even guided by their religion.

    When Chinese do not vote for PAS, then they can only hope for UMNO to change for the better. UMNO would not change unless it is required to behave properly to earn the votes. When Chinese do not vote for its opponents, as the case may be, then UMNO has no need to change.

    It is true that PAS would become stronger with Chinese support. PAS might have stuck to its extreme religious views because it considered itself serving only as an opposition, and could only gain support from Malays. PAS might be encouraged that together with PKR, it might be possible to be partner to a coalition government, and as a coalition party, it has to accept a common position to be a member party of the government. The opposition parties should not form a coalition party similar to BN. They should only form coalition government so that they are free to pull out of it when the other partners do not keep to their promises.

    Politics is the game of possible. When PAS can help serve the interest of all races to deny UMNO continued disgovernance, we should cultivate its potential.

    When one abstains during the next election one allows others to decide his fate. So MCA and MIC representatives can continue to collect their allowances, and give UMNO the excuse to do what they please.

    We want to deny MCA and MIC representatives the opportunity to hurt non-Malays, and to deny BN the right to govern, if possible. We should so it at this coming election. UMNO has shown us that it would not keep to its promise to our forefathers, and we cannot accuse PAS of that sin. If we had to deny PAS come the next election, we would at least be happy than UMNO has already been weakened by then. They might then have learnt how to repent, for once in 50 years.

    Think and vote right, but never give up the right of the citizenship. Not to vote is accepting dictatorial rule, and why do we care for the right to parliamentary democracy in that event?

  180. A big win (for PAS) in this election is one thing but if it is a harbinger of a greater win in two general elections down the road to the extent that Opposition wins more 50% with PAS at the driver’s seat, everyone will have a big problem. Jeffrey

    So if what you said is a certainty, then what are we here for discussing about opposition strategy and how BN led by UMNO should be checked? So if we need to control the raise of PAS and let PKR to take the lead instead, what make you think that PKR will not behave like UMNO once they have attained power? We have not even move one step but we start to procrastinate, contemplate and hallucinate all kinds of possibilities. Please go on with our permutations.

  181. Are you advocating censorship here (ostensibly not to influence potential voters here for the Opposition) ? Don’t you think they are entitled to the presumption that they have minds of their own to evaluate conflicting opinions? jeffrey

    Again you are not a realist. Please look around what is campaigning for? What are all the advertisements and propaganda for? If people don’t get influenced, why do we do all these things? Election is just few days away. Please don’t complicate the already very complicated situation. Yes, please don’t talk too much intellectual cock here can or not, for the sake of the opposition and the DAP in particular.

  182. Jeffry,
    They say the best proof of anything is in the eating and following that again I’ve to assert that politics is a human activity and being of that nature one must refer to track record for this activity is not like great the philosophical questions of the western tradition whereby these are debated down the ages without having an end.Choosing which party can best lead Malaysia is a question of judgement and this can be helped by referring to what they have done to date in governing the nation or their states.All other questions regarding them without reference to any bench mark (ie track record) belong to the realm of surmising and we can’t afford to do that for this country is slipping very fast into the slippery slope of self destruction.
    I repeat I do not share Jeffrey’s view that PAS can be that powerful so quickly as to hold a two thirds majority in so short a time so that they can be in a position to amend the constitutions.It is just not possible.I am more sympathetic to the view that we must do away with this UMNO thing first to give the nation a breathing room for more enlightened Malaysians to emerge to dominate the political scene of this nation.Not voting in my opinion doesn’t help to give Malaysia that breathing spell.In fact it is more like to hasten the decline down that slippery slope of self destruction.

  183. Campaigning & advertisements and propaganda from different parties in an election is for people to have the contrariety of different mesages and ideas to sift, weigh and then decide and vote for that which is right and true – in the highest democratic traditions. You should not disparage the judgment of readers whether DAP supporters or otherwise in this Blog that they should not be exposed to differences of opinions at this time, eve of elections….Such a stance of telling everyone here – that there is but only one message, ie ‘if between BN and PAS, vote for PAS, if between BN and monkey or donkey, vote for the monkey or donkey’ and any other permutation is nonsense will only illustrate your dictatorial cast of mind no different from those in the BN camp that you so much despise and deride. I believe your stance is totally indefensible.

  184. AhPek

    Talking about the proof of the pudding is in the eating and track record being more persuasive than philosophical debates, PAS is trying level best to be exemplary in the state it controls (and even then its most exemplary is not convincing to me) for it has to ‘show case’ what it does in Kelantan to convince Non Muslim detractors in the rest of the states to win their support and acceptance. It does not necessarily apply if it eventually wins in the rest or majority of other states.

  185. Never Jeffrey, I am as entitled as you to say my piece. If by so doing I am dictatorial it is also fine with me. Honestly, whatever you people discussed here are postulates. There is no way we know for sure. But right now, I only know that we have to reduce majority if not replace the existing government. To achieve that, we need to split the Malay votes the way the non-Malay votes are split during the last 50 years. Just look at BN, UMNO is the only Malay party while other communities, be they Chinese, Indians, kadazan and others are represented by more than one parties. What does that tell you? And yet you people here are talking about not wanting to vote for PAS fearing for some Islamic state? I have asked you people before, and I am asking you again now, what is the SIGNIFICANT difference between UMNO and PAS today? I only know UMNO is more racist and corrupted than PAS. The rest are the same! With regard to all the controversial constitutional amendments that we so often talked about here, may I know which government allowed it? Don’t forget, besides UMNO, MCA, MIC and all the good for nothing non Malay parties also participated in those amendments. Saya tak boleh tahan lah, bukan saya sombong dan suka nak menghina orang lain. Kamu semua kalut lah.

  186. Voltaire is attributed with having said, ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’ This was the Renaissance thinker that contributed much to our concept of democratic traditions of which the DAP and this Blog stands for.

    However it seems to me that one of its staunchest and passionate supporters has come out with a somewhat contrary version when election is near and that is, ‘I disapprove of what you say, and I will defend to the death my right to say to you that you talk nonsense and ‘intellectual cock’ and should shut up’. That’s the new ‘democracy’ being suggested here ???

  188. “what is the SIGNIFICANT difference between UMNO and PAS today?” The former is an imposter besides being, as you said, more racist and corrupted whilst PAS is genuine in its agenda just like Ayatollah Khomeini was as genuine, non-corrupt and non racist – which is precisely what is more worrying, if you think about it.

    Imposter only think of greed and money, bottomline, and can shift positions if taking another stance will also help in the cause of avarice and sticking to the old ways will not.

    However the RealMcCoy will not shift and compromise and there lies the problem in the longer run. :)

  190. Jeffrey,

    I am not referring to a track record of one or two years.It is a record of 50 years, half a century mind you and that’s a pretty long time to judge a practical human activitysuch as to decide you one thinks would rule Malaysia better or if you like who would do Malaysia more harm.
    Judging like the way you do does not give me much confidence for you are judging from the perspective of a philosophical debate which at best belongs to the realm of surmising.We certainly do not have the luxury of time on our side.Our immediate concern, at least that’s my view is to try and salvage Malaysia and the best way to do that is from their track record of 50 years.I have nothing else to turn to for referrence besides this to aid my judgement!

  191. “Showcasing” means not showing your true colours that are not yet acceptable; it means boiling the frog method show a bit, hide back the rest and show the contrary – can have temples, eat pork conedm racism, even field non muslim candidates, talk less about Hudud (after mainstream market gave it a thrashing in 2004 when it lost the opposition head seat to YB). It does not mean following the other guy (BN) whose qualities are just as hated….As to the question how does one know the exemplary part is not genuine, that one has to study and understand the ideology of Islamic theocracy, to vast a subject to discuss here.

  193. Limkamput says,

    “A big win (for PAS) in this election is one thing but if it is a harbinger of a greater win in two general elections down the road to the extent that Opposition wins more 50% with PAS at the driver’s seat, everyone will have a big problem. Jeffrey

    So if what you said is a certainty, then what are we here for discussing about opposition strategy and how BN led by UMNO should be checked? So if we need to control the raise of PAS and let PKR to take the lead instead, what make you think that PKR will not behave like UMNO once they have attained power? We have not even move one step but we start to procrastinate, contemplate and hallucinate all kinds of possibilities. Please go on with our permutations.”

    That’s a good one, Limkamput.
    Yes, can anyone guarantee that PKR will not turn into another UMNO, or even worse?

    If every voter will only vote for the opposition party of his/her
    choice, then the strategy of one-to-one contest is meaningless!
    The only beneficiary will be the ruling coalition party.

  196. “There is a teaching in Islam that Muslims should resort to deceptive strategy of temporary compromise when they are in a weak position, and pursue their real agenda explicitly once they have gained strength. We have to take this into account when we assess the track-record of PAS. When deception is involved, the past is not indicative of the future.” Lee

    A quote out of Salman’s Rushdie’s “Satanic Verses”?

  198. “Saya tak boleh tahan lah, bukan saya sombong dan suka nak menghina orang lain. Kamu semua kalut lah.” Limkamput

    You making fun of Chinese again?? Your condescending and racist attitude shines through like the sun through the morning mist. Can run but no can hide!

  199. We are afraid that PAS might do more harm so that we should be able to tolerate what UMNO is doing to us. That is the essence of the argument of those who object to voting for PAS in the coming election, even when we long for a change in the political scence of the country.

    So, UMNO will have all the time in the world to continue boiling non-Malays like frogs. It is not just our generation that would suffer, our children and grandchildren would too.

    I thought MCA only used the threat of May 13 for an immediate effect. Bt there are others who imagine that it might be worse, suggesting that the present PAS leaders are planning in advance to hookwink non-Malays so that they would establish theocracy in the country, decades later. If Malays can accept theocracy then, they would also accept it now. Are we saying that it is the corruption opportunities presided by UMNO that has keep UMNO members falling from the theocracy choice? And we should thank UMNO for the corruption practices which they have engineered to prevent theocracy!

    TDM said that Chinese knew how to vote. He must have meant that we vote for status quo, speculating that changes could be worse. Yet in status quo, we are being treated worse by the year. We deserve what we vote, or abstain.

  200. Race is not an issue in Islam and PAS….but it is a huge issue to UMNO.

    In view of the deacdes of narrow, short sighted and damaging politics of race and religion, in term of national unity, BN UMNO is more divisive to the country than PAS.

  201. “Well I just happen to be those who think PAS will, and therefore there is a cost to all of us, maybe not now but long term. Now between a shorter term view and longer.” Jeffrey

    There are always consequences to everything we do. Now here’s one perspective.

    What we want right now is a foot in the door. What we do once we get passed that door is another matter. So great is the need to get a foot in the door, that everything else pales in comparison.

  202. “I do not share Jeffrey’s view that PAS can be that powerful so quickly as to hold a two thirds majority in so short a time so that they can be in a position to amend the constitutions.” AhPek

    I believe what Jeffery said, to paraphrase a little, is that there is a cost to pay for voting PAS in the long run.

    Economists are fond of saying “In the long run assuming all things remain equal etc”. The problem is nothing remains equal for very long.

    As to the question of ‘cost’ there is always a cost to everything we do. Are we prepared to pay that cost? How should we see PAS? Are they a political force to be reckoned with? Could they grow to be a force to be reckoned with in years to come. The short answer to that at least for me is “No”. Their position is too extreme. Again this is assuming that PAS does not morp into something else different from what it is today i.e. all things do not remain equal in the long run.

  203. Undergrad 2,

    Sure I’ll totally concur with you that there is a cost in everything we do.That goes as well for choosing to vote for UMNO.But on balance I am of the opinion that we probably will pay a much heavier price if we do that based on what they have done to-date over the last 50 years.I’m more prepared to judge it based on the evidence so far produced.
    Perhaps a better way maybe, just in case we fail in our judgement is for all who believe in the Bangsa Malaysia concept to quickly accept the fact that our political position in this country is to be a king maker ie that is to say that from the demography of this nation only Malay from the Malay parties (mind you there is no way that this race-based politics can be changed for it is too far entrenched in the political system) can be king whilst we of other ethnic groups can only be a king maker (either you choose PAS or PKR or UMNO to be king).To do that we must evovle to be a kind of a chameleon, politically nimble enough to change camp as soon as we sniff that something is going amiss with the king.

  204. AhPek,

    What you are saying is that non Malays’ predicament is that they are destined to be, at best, only kingmakers in their own country and since they have no power to alone, as a group, do right against wrong and injustice perpetrated on them, then necessarily in the interest of political and economic survival, they have to adopt the principles of Machiavelli of a certain readiness and nimbleness to switch political positions based on situational demands, to prioritize political expediency over principles even to the extent of sacrificing long-held principles for short-term and immediate political gain or reprieve.

    Did I get your drift correct?

  205. “And yet you people here are talking about not wanting to vote for PAS fearing for some Islamic state? I have asked you people before, and I am asking you again …” limkamput

    Stop badgering commentators!

  206. Jeffrey,

    I don’t know about you but i believe that this country is so mired in race and religion -based politics that it has become strongly entrenched in the political system that i see no way of dismantling this anachronistic racial edifice short of a revolution.Avoiding such a possible situation, a possible way out is to develop what I call political nimbleness adopting a chameleon method spelled out earlier.
    If we want to hope to achieve your long held principles of a Bangsa Malaysia (I am sorry Malaysians have no political ideology to boast of,socialist,communist,free market etc only race based or religion based politics), then I believe that Malaysians must be prepared for a Revolution and even that most will shy away!
    revolution.Avoiding such a possible situation

  208. In the immediate post-independence years, the dichotomy between Malay political hegemony and Chinese economic power worked to balance the unequal forces enough to inject a reasonable degree of what at best could only be short-term political stability. This short-term political stability was disturbed by events which came to be referred as the May 13th incident or incidents. With the dichotomy disturbed and with more and more of Chinese economic power chipped away as a result of policies like the NEP, we have come full circle.

    Like the city of San Francisco long overdue for a major earthquake, Malaysia too is due for an earthquake but of a different nature though of the same magnitude. No, I’m not talking of another May 13.

  209. Although those policies in favour of ketuanan are from the UMNO. Indirectly and directly UMNO has created the racial and economic divide among the races. It has becomes deep-rooted in the society here. MACA & MIC claimed to be the guardians of the respective races. That is what they use to fish for votes. They nothing for their races. They do never take a stand on many critical issues affecting their races in particular and the society at large.

  210. Ah Pek,

    So from what you posted at 11: 42.57, I I take it that I got your drift right.

    Few would disagree with your observation that the ‘political system mired in race and religion -based politics’ is so entrenched that seemingly nothing short of a more radical, as opposed to piecemeal approach, to change it.

    What is being discussed is which approach to take (at the political level and individual voter’s level) in this complex situation, hence the vehemence of preceding debate.

    Don’t misunderstand that I am dismissive outright of your so-called “chameleon” approach: it is one approach shared by many posters here.

    The other approach – argued by Lee Wang Yen and myself – has placed greater emphasis on certain long-held principles than political expediency based on situational demands. I believe this latter approach is more in line with what YB Kit said about “DAP leaders being very different from MCA leaders including Ka Ting. DAP leaders are in politics not for self-gain, wealth, position or government position but for our ideals and principles, and love for our country” – with emphasis on the words “our ideals and principles, and love for our country” which, you should realise, are not exactly consistent with the chameleon approach!

    At party level, and notwithstanding the principles enunciated by Kit, the fact that the DAP has an understanding with PKR (back to back against PAS) not to engage in three cornered fights is already indicative that DAP, as a party, has already indirectly taken the “chameleon” approach, though not perhaps as brazenly and openly as it did the last time when it had formal ties within the Barisan Alternatif led by PAS.

    But the approach of a political party and the approach of a voter at individual level are not necessarily similar.

    A political party has to follow political imperatives to win and dislodge the opponent (hence the decision to have a limited common front and least a collaboration sufficient to thwart BN its two thirds majority threshold) whilst as far as the individual goes (at his level), it is also the same except that it is made more complicated by dictates of individual personal conscience, emotions, values or whatever other cherished beliefs and principles including both felt experience and observed facts over decades and postulates or combination of both when exercising his right to vote or abstain….

    So it is in the context of this “individual level” of decision making that there has been a debate of what to do when faced with the dilemma of BN versus PAS.

    If one takes the ‘chameleon’ approach it will be PAS; otherwise it is either abstention or even BN, if PAS’s platform is viewed as a greater and real threat to our way of life requiring it to be handled first and relegated to the dustbin of political history before isolating and tackling BN by joint force of (say) DAP and PKR.

    It is how an individual views it and this is what our debate here is all about – trying to canvass, evaluate approaches of how to tackle a seemingly intractable common predicament so bad that many of us have to (pathetically) throw the support behind a theocratic party (in a one to one BN/PAS contest) even if at the back of our minds we have serious misgivings of PAS’s intentions.

    Be that as it may, we should in such debate respect each other’s individual approach on how to handle this problem, when it comes to voting, and should not get so emotionally heated up as to try to shut anyone else up, curtail their right to say their piece or deride what they say as nonsense or intellectual cock for not taking an approach that we personally thought a better one.

    The search for approaches to handle it is an ongoing continuous one.

  211. Some have accused Jeffrey and I of talking about mere ‘possibilities’ or ‘postulates’ when we refer to the threat of PAS. Some challenge that we must be certain that PAS is a real threat and that PKR won’t become bad before we encourage people to support PKR and shun PAS. But this is unreasonable since in science and ordinary life, there are no certainties. The best guide is probability. We decide which course of action is the most rational one according to the probability of a certain assumption being true and the cost and benefits associating with the truth and falsity of the assumption. This is the principle of maximising expected utility in decision theory.
    We cannot guarantee that PKR will not become corrupt. Why do we encourage people to support it? But why do we encourage people to support DAP? Are we ‘certain’ that DAP will not change and become corrupt? The most we can say is that, we have good reasons to think that DAP will not. These good reasons only render the claim that DAP will not become corrupt a probable proposition, they do not make it certain. Therefore, we do not need certainties. All we need are good reasons. We have good reasons to think that PAS is a dangerous threat and that PKR is not.

  212. I made a claim earlier that Islam advocates a deceptive strategy. Undergrad2 then commented, ‘A quote out of Salman Rushdie’s Satanic verses?’ The implicit message in Undergrad2’s comment is that my claim comes from an unreliable source – a deflamatory, biased, and misleading Islam-bashing book.
    But Undergrad2 should not have made such a comment when he has no idea where I derive my claim from.
    I did a research a few years back on this issue and learnt it from an Islamic scholar who studied in a Middle East country.
    This deceptive strategy is called ‘Taqiyya’. In Islam (or perhaps some interpretations of it [but both Shiites and Sunnis adopt Taqiyya]), the use of ‘Taqiyya’ against non-Muslims is a virtue.

  213. You making fun of Chinese again?? Your condescending and racist attitude shines through like the sun through the morning mist. Can run but no can hide!

    Papi chai, apa awak cakap? Saya tulis dalam bm, jadi kamu juga perlu jawab dalam bm. Kalau tidak erti, diam diam shj. Tutup mulut kamu yang berbisa itu. Kamu lah penipu tulin. Tiaada sesiapa lagi yang lebih buruk daripada engkau.

  214. It is so funny when I read the last two postings by the Cambridge brat. What is so unreasonable to challenge those who think they should shun PAS? Aren’t your views on PAS also based on assumptions and probabilities? If you made one lousy study on ‘Taqiyya’, the so called deceptive strategy of Islam, is that all to Islam? I would expect more from Cambridge scholars.
    One more thing, don’t try to frighten people your decision theory. In real life, there are many situations this theory does not apply. Most of the important things in life we only get to them once in our life time and so how does expected value (or utility) help us in this regard. This could be our only opportunity left to vote for PAS (so as to split the Malays) to bring an end to the Malay hegemony. Further delay would probably reach a point of no return no matter what your expected value says.

  215. It is so funny when I read the last two postings by Lee w y. What is so unreasonable to challenge those who think they should not vote for PAS? Aren’t thier views on PAS also based on assumptions and probabilities? If you made one lousy study on ‘Taqiyya’, the so called deceptive strategy of Islam, is that all to Islam? I would expect more from Cambridge scholars.
    One more thing, don’t try to frighten people with your decision theory. In real life, there are in many situations this theory does not apply. For most of the important things in life we only get to do them once in our life time and so how does expected value (or utility) help us in this regard. This could be our only opportunity left to vote for PAS (so as to split the Malays) to bring an end to the Malay hegemony. Further delay would probably reach a point of no return no matter what your expected value says.

  216. If you think that my research relating to Taqiyya is lousy, would you please help me out by providing a good quality research which shows otherwise? I’d be glad to learn from you and very grateful for your enlightenment. Thank you!

  217. If expected utility is not a guide for rational actions, then I wonder what are the grounds for urging people to vote against BN so as to avoid bad consequences such as UMNO hegemony, corruption, inefficiencies, crimes etc? This call implicitly appeals to the considerations of expected utility.

  218. Philosophical analyses such as the formulation of decision theory are not meant to frighten people. Rather, they are simply a more rigorous formulation of our ordinary common-sense concepts and reasoning.

  219. ‘An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the man”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
    It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem abusive, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or personally attacking an argument’s proponent in an attempt to discredit that argument.’ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

    Examples:
    Tutup mulut kamu yang berbisa itu.
    Kamu lah penipu tulin.
    Tiaada sesiapa lagi yang lebih buruk daripada engkau.
    It is so funny when I read the last two postings by the Cambridge brat.

  220. The initial starting point of my ‘chameleon approach is that this race-based and religion- based politics of this country cannot be eradicated, the belief influenced in no small measure from the demography of the country and our decision as voter must be to give it to the party we believe would give citizens less of racial and religiuos policies and exert less racial and religious hegemony over the rest who are non Malay as well as non Muslim.Since the deceptive strategy ‘Taqiyya’ as mentioned by Lee Way Yen is adopted by both Sunnis and Shites then there is no telling who is practising in Malaysia-UMNO,PAS or PKR.The best means of basing one’s judgement has to be from track record so as to enable us to make a wise decision on our choice.And this basis can change from election to next election because our intension is to have a MALAYSIA more free of RACIAL AND RELIGIOUS HEGEMONY over the rest who are non Malay and also non Muslim.
    The same sort of approach can also be used by DAP in choosing who she should form a pact with.
    How could one say then,Jeffrey, that ‘our ideals & principles and love for our country’ are not exactly consistent with the ‘chameleon’ approach? I would assert that this situational approach conform precisely with our ideals principles as well as love of our country!! I will do exactly what I say I’ll do and believe you me I am happy and at peace with myself just doing that.

  221. ///The other approach – argued by Lee Wang Yen and myself – has placed greater emphasis on certain long-held principles than political expediency based on situational demands.///– Jeffrey

    That would be acceptable if you are given only one chance to decide and vote, and then you live happily there after. You should then hold a long term view. Election is held every five years, and when all the PAS candidates, 60 MP hopefuls are all returned in this election, they could not change the constitution, assuming PAS is part of the government. But UMNO will have to mend its ways, to return to power. Based on PAS performance, you decide comes next election.

    UMNO managed to hang on for 50 years partly because Chinese chose to run away rather than to fight for its rightful place in the country. When that decision is made, they would not rock the boat and just count their days to departure. Now, we are smarting the pain of UMNO-led NEP policies, and yet we are thinking that instead of taking chance for a change, we hope that UMNO might change for the better.

    Chinese population has been reduced from 40 plus per cent at Independence to 25 percent now, and soon to be in the teens. There is no hope that Chinese would be able to take an active role in the policy decision of the government. Malays will dominate the political scene now and forever. Pretty soon, they would not be very much to steal, and Malays within UMNO would implode. When the Malays could have two equally strong parties, they will then feel the need for the third-party votes. They will show case what they can perform for support.

    ///This deceptive strategy is called ‘Taqiyya’. In Islam (or perhaps some interpretations of it [but both Shiites and Sunnis adopt Taqiyya]), the use of ‘Taqiyya’ against non-Muslims is a virtue.///—Lee Wan Yen

    I believe deceptive strategy is taught in books of art of war, such as in Sunzi and Sunbin. One cannot fault them consider the use of ‘Tyqiyya’ against non-Muslims is a virtue because those non-Muslims had been identified as enemy. Or are we to believe from the statement that non-Muslims are enemies of Muslims because they practice different religion? Are we to believe that PAS would declare all non-Muslims enemies when they come into power, based on Islamic teaching?

  222. Anyone actually took a closer look at what is written at the bottom of the Malaysian coat-of-arms? It says “bersekutu bertambah maju”. We can even get united (bersatu), so how can we become bersekutu???

  223. Lee,

    “A quote out of Salman Rushdie’s Satanic verses?”

    That was a question! That was me throwing the monkey wrench into the machine to see where it would lead.

    “Satanic Verses” by Salman Rushdie is defamatory and Islam bashing? I cannot say if it was meant to be so. I guess I’ll have to read it to find out. The book is banned in Malaysia.

  224. In a civil discussion, it seems to me that if we genuinely want to know the source or basis of a certain statement, we should just ask politely (‘Would you please let me know where you derive that idea from? or ‘Why is that?’), rather than putting it in a nasty way – ‘A quote from a X [where X is a banned book]?’

  226. Lee Wang Yen, your study, no matter how compelling, is but ONE study. You can’t use that so-called one study to prove rationality and try to silence others. With regard to your so called rationale expected utility theory, my argument is not against the logics of the theory. I just feel that it does not apply in situations where you get only to do it once in your life time. The expected value is based on many occurrences. Let me give a simple example. If you toss a coin once, and once only, the expected value of getting a head is 1/2. You can’t make a decision on that expected value because it does exist in real life, get it? In real life, you either get one head or one tail because you toss the coin only once. That is what I meant.

    I did not go to Cambridge or Oxford, so I don’t know what an argument should be or how it should be carried out. I just know when one talks sense and when one talks bulls, no matter how many studies or academic citing one uses. Lot of academic studies particularly those related to social sciences are common sense or alternatively filled with baloney to me. It is not I alone who said that. I think LKY once said that too. So don’t try to overawe others with your one study – that was what I meant. We use logics and reasoning most of the time in our observation of things and in arguments. But usually it is our pride and false sense of intellectual superiority that prevent us to see the points of view of others, perhaps those who did not go to Cambridge or Oxford. As much as you feel we are wrong, I can also say you are committing the same wrong.

    WE MUST VOTE FOR ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES IN THE COMING ELECTION, INCLUDING PAS.

  227. If our uncivilized ways of expressing ourselves, our bad manners and unpolished ways etc offended you, then let me be the first to apologize.

    My advice to you is be humble and never to forget your humble beginings. If you’re studying on a government scholarship, you should be grateful to the people of Malaysia for the opportunity they have given you. Others are not that lucky. It does not mean they do not deserve the opportunity.

    I once worked under a boss with a Ph.D. He was a pain in the ass and he couldn’t fit in. He was opinionated and arrogant and looked to others as undeserving of his company. He would go around telling others how to think and how to behave. In the business world this is a flaw in the character of the person whose job is to bring in business to the company and to promote investment. In the company’s entire network – and it is a world wide network – there were only a handful of Ph.Ds and they were mostly in R&D. They are never known to be an asset when it comes to business promotion and marketing – for a reason. They are just bad when it comes to connecting with people.

  230. Limkamput: ‘If you toss a coin once, and once only, the expected value of getting a head is 1/2.’

    That is the probability of the coin landing heads. Expected value is a different notion. The expected value of a random variable R which takes the values R1 and R2 with probability P and 1-p respectively is E(R] = P(R1)+(1-P)(R2).

    There is no need to attack a theory that one does not understand.

  231. Many people writing in this blog are also very opinionated, if being opinionated means ‘holding on to one’s position throughout a discussion’. We can discuss, we can disagree, and we can hold on to our opinions. But there is no need to resort to personal attacks.

  234. See typical arrogant Cambridge brat talking again. You know I am illustrating the probability of getting a head. When did I give you the idea that I am attacking the theory? What I was saying was if you get to do certain thing once in your life time, how does your understanding of expected value help? Did I say the expected value of a random variable? Ok, what is the expected value of getting a head? I think Cambridge University should re-examine your credential. Bloody “how lian” brat. Hello, the world will NOT be made any different by people like you. I seriously think I had and will continue to make a bigger difference than you, although comparatively you probably are much younger than me.

  235. Perhaps Limkamput is right that my research relating to Taqiyya is nothing, my logic and reasoning are corrupted, and that social sciences are ‘common sense or alternatively filled with baloney’.
    Perhaps Undergrad2 is right that PhD holders are ‘never known to be an asset when it comes to business promotion and marketing’.
    Even so, can I be allowed to express my views here, however bad and lousy they appear to you, without being harrased by personal attacks?

  236. Papi chai, untuk kamu, saya cadangkan kamu duduk diam diam sahaja kerana otak kamu memang terlalu kecil untuk mengikuti dan memahami perkara-perkara yang dibincangkan di sini. Kamu “otak burung”. Mungkin burung lebih cerdik jika bandingkan dengan kamu.

  237. Lee Wang Yeng,

    “Opinionated” means “conceitedly assertive and dogmatic in one’s opinion”. The more you write the more you fit in with the description.

    I was wrong and limkamput has been right all along although I think he does not know how to put his thoughts across and it came out wrong. My apologies to limkamput.

  239. Would you please kindly let me know which of my statements is dogmatic? If presenting a point by giving my reasons and arguments count as dogmatic, what about unfounded accusations hurled at me?

  243. Ok, Lee WY, we can withdraw all the so-called personal attacks – seriously there is no issue at all. I just want to ask you these:
    1. Do you think our arguments merit your considerations?
    2. Do you feel or carry a superior attitude when debating with others, particularly those like me who just have an attap school education?
    3. Do you have the tendency to resort to some intellectual or theoretical diarrhoea each time you are cornered in an argument just to prove your Cambridge credential and perhaps to overawe others?
    4. I want you to touch your heart when you answer these two questions.
    5. I think you should thank God for meeting people like me and may be Undergrad2. I hope you will walk away a more humble and a wiser human being. I believe with your intelligence, you can contribute more than others. This is provided you take heed of our advice. I think I eat salt more than you eating rice. Seriously I am not trying to insult you again.

  255. Dear good leader Lim Kit Siang and team,
    We LOVE you and all the good leaders in DAP! We 100% support you and wish that God will bless DAP to win a great victory on 8 March 08 ! Help your people ! Work all out selflessly ! Well done DAP ! Syabas!

  256. Stop your mischief, silly pop! Actually you sound more like “darkhorse”. Don’t use this blog as a platform, hide behind several ID tags to irritate, harass, and abuse with your unnecessary sexist remarks!

  257. This papi @ one of these (darkhorse, colonel, bodo, godamn, blackeye, laifoong, diaperhead) is a pervert.

    Election is only a few days away. I hope you scumbag will just disappear into oblivion and never to return again. Seriously you have done great disservice to DAP and Sdr Lim. You could be BN dog too – perhaps recruited and paid off recently.

    Ya, before I forget, you are a racist too, particularly against Chinese educated Chinese. If you see two indian robbers, you must say i saw two dark skin robbers!?!

  259. the MP of MCA must first understand the role and responsiblities of an MP before they setfoot in any elction. dun con your countrymen anymore. Dont fight for self gain and forget abt your responsibilities for your ppl. Dont think u r indespensible. We are lucky to have DAP around, if not we will be even worse. Marginalised in every aspect.

  260. Thanks to Jeff Ooi for highlighting us the claim Koh Tsu Koon made in 1999. It is a fact that Koh Tsu Koon claimed in 1999 just before the election that Penang’s economy would catch up with that of Singapore in ten years time. It is now impossible to be realised by Penang state government under current leadership of Koh Tsu Koon.

    No wonder Koh Tsu Koon now has got the brilliant idea of moving from state level to parliment level. By moving to parliment level, does it mean that Koh Tsu Koon assumes Penang people will forget what he claimed in 1999.

    What kind of Penang chief minister is this? Now that BN Penang wasted a lot of money to print brochures claiming how great BN acheivements at Penang blah blah blah. Aiyoh, ingat kita ini orang Penang bodoh kah? Just based on what you print kah?

    Fellow Malaysians, please call upon your friends and relatives. Do not Vote for Koh Tsu Koon at Batu Kawan seat. Vote for Jeff Ooi at Jelutong seat. In short, please vote for the Opposition. We need more oppositions in the Parliment to do check and balance for good governance.

  261. DAP dont exist so long for no reason, Their leaders are LEADERS. their purpose is to serve the people not people to serve them.

    DAP leaders and others like them who serve the people had done their tour of duty for the people , they have proven themselves to the people.

    Name one BN clubber who done just that,…. ZERO because get special rights and immunity of the malaysian laws created by themselves.

    None of the BN clubbers had done the same. and … please dont confused with the national service scamp, dont be mistaken, lee lam thigh has his lap full with a doll when ns came about, his face was gagged too. so pls excuse him if you will.

    The BN clubbers is a marriage by convenience , a club for liars and carry big leg followers, Selfish and self centred, easily get insulted, emotional, narrow minded and uneducated bunch of idiots, corrupted, sly and cruel at heart, cant even controlled the civil service and little napoleans and thick skin enough in ordering people around.

    MP wannabes of BN, you better take good look around , see who is behind you including those beside you, you may want to remember this. BN clubbers are accountable for hardship and marginalization of the people.

    Vote for change , a forward change
    Vote like all malaysian ,
    vote DAP

  262. MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting said : Any defeat of MCA and Gerakan candidates in the elections will weaken the political strength of the Chinese community in the country’s administration.

    May be we should ask this papi dog, aka come2papi @ darkhorse to elaborate what strength the MCA has got now that will be further weakened. As the mah chai of OKT, I am sure this papi dog can elaborate and help to defense his boss.

    As for me, MCA got strength left meh? I only know Soi Lek got some strength lah! But he also not contesting already.

    Tsu Koon says: Three Gerakan leaders Hock Nan, Chang Yeow and Kah Choon have been told to be “psychologically prepared” to succeed him as Penang Chief Minister.

    See the desperation. Ini main tikam kah, Tsu Koon? You think we so stupid meh. Pretend all three candidates got the chance to be CM so that all the three them and their supporters will give their votes to Gerakan. High hope lah this time around, the party that gerak (move a bit) only and want to kan (you imagine lah what this is) and hence Gerakan. How to survive in this modern time! You got only one post lah, how to give to three fellows? Even that one post also UMNO decides lah, may be is this time Papi bin Paku. But we would prefer LGE lah.

    Lim Keng Yaik said: The people are being used by the DAP “father-and-son team” of Lim Kit Siang and Lim Guan Eng to further their personal and party interest.

    Huh, you sar su ku ar? You gila scumbag you dare say LKS and LGE fighting for personal interest. The whole wide world knows you treat Gerakan like your personal property and even as a so-called advisor, you are still calling all the shots. You son can’t even speak properly lah, how come can he be a Gerakan candidate? Because of scum bag like you, this country has continued to go down the drain. LKS is equivalent to PAP’s LKY, got it? The sooner you “gerak only want to kan” people disappear, the better for ALL Malaysians.

  263. What is BN to you ?
    BN is a component parties form by CARTEL which linked to a few ELITE people who actually controls this country.
    What is UMNO to you ?
    UMNO, with only 3 millions members, mostly with government staff are imaging the Ketuanan Melayu. They are speculating enough hates among the 3 main races in Malaysia. They changes laws and Islamic teaching to confused their followers. They make their Ketuanan Melayu look mighty and strong in an artificial world. They pay them dividends from funds that taken from other resources which crippling the country economy. They make sure that other races will feel bad and react to these actions. Then, they proud claimed that they ‘fought’ for the Ketuanan Melayu’ rights. They build more mosque to accommodate their religious members at the cost of the buildings are way of the original budget. That’s what NEP all about. Worst to these buildings, the main contractor always belong to the ELITE group owners. The one ACTUALLY do the building would have been more than 5 level of transaction before getting the contract. How can we expect these guys to do a good job. Is this what NEP all about ?
    UMNO also enpower their Syariah officer to create enough ‘straints’ among Malaysian to keep everyone fighting among themselves whilst they focus on gaining from country wealth through mega projects.
    What is MCA to you ?
    They are mainly ‘wanderers’ that ‘pocketed’ wealth opportunities from messes created by UMNO. They are ‘brainy’ enough to know what is more important than doing public services. They are ‘middlemen’ in all relevant government business or act like ‘guardian’ to ensure no Chinese can compliant loud enough to disturb the ‘wheel of wealth’ in BN.
    What is MIC to you ?
    Like in any Tamil movie, there are only ONE hero. The rest are just additional numbers to make the movie exciting. They will go around gardens and valley to tell you a simple line.
    What is Gerakan to you ?
    A movement party that put everyone on the move at the same spot all these while and claimed victorious with that idea.
    So, let us be happy that we are the ONE that failed ourselves in each GE. We talk, think and do differently each time. Some of us just let our rights wasted by not voting might be wrong too… as someone would have been voting on your behalf to ensure result favoring BN. Believe it or not …
    Malaysia BOLEH.

  264. ///MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting said : Any defeat of MCA and Gerakan candidates in the elections will weaken the political strength of the Chinese community in the country’s administration.///—Limkamput

    MCA sells all its ‘total political strength’ for not even 100 million RM out of 100 billion budget, and hold their silence henceforth. UMNO might offer even morth in its absence!

    We must destruct before we can construct. For that MCA should be made to leave politics, and MIC should be wiped out too. They have a more important role outside government, when the opportunists in the parties are replaced.

  265. Dear Jimm,

    What is BN to you? Or more importantly what is BN to Malaysians? A more relevant question is how on earth this coalition runs the country ever since independence without fail?

    BN to Malaysians are a group of political parties that form a coalition to give various races a place in govt; be it federal or state level.

    And why it holds appeals to the majority? It is the only platform that takes into consideration on aspirations of different communities. That is the appeal. Other parties appeals only to a segment of population. DAP with its anti- Malay attitudes only appeals to a section of Chinese communities. PAS, with its ever changing religious principles, appeals mainly to a section of Malay communities.

    PKR, claims to be democratic but in reality is a tool for vengeance by Anwar Ibrahim.

    So much hatred shown against UMNO, the only party that stands against DAP. So much has been said on the Ketuanan Melayu. In reality, Malay supremacy in politics is simply due to Malays being the largest etnic group. Hence, the dominance of UMNO in BN and Malaysian politics.

    Other parties in BN realize such a fact. There is nothing wrong by allying with the dominant party. Recognition of such fact is a matter of practicality. In return, these parties are supported by UMNO and the Malays. Therefore, we have the situation whereby majority Malay areas contested and won by non Malay BN components such as MCA, MIC, Gerakan.

    If hates is the preoccupation of UMNO, rest assured that UMNO can go all alone in ruling the country. It may sound boastful but that is the reality. It does not need to spare some seats for Indians. And nobody can say anything.

    Whatever weaknesses NEP has, it is not denying that it has contributed to well being of Malaysians. Only those consumed with hatred will deny this. NEP has succesffully brought down poverty level, restructure the economy.

    And I notice you are upset about mosques. As the official religion, of course Islam is accorded a paramount position in relative to other religions. BUt other religions can be practised in harmony. So, what is the problem here?

  266. What a [deleted] democratic country is this?
    Lied to the whole world indeed.
    Barisan have every ways to do their campaigning.
    TV and radio singing to their tune every minute, hour,day and night.
    Newspaper publishing and promoting and campaigning for them everyday but when the DAP were to hold a small gathering just to welcome their leader. Out came the an officer to interfere.
    Show it to the world and show it to everyone.
    Show them how proud the ruling party are!!!

  267. Umno actually is a good party in the past.
    That was the former Umno, under the leadership of Tunku, Abdul Razak and Hussein Onn.
    Unlike now, where certain leaders who are too ambitious and power crazy that they wreck the former’s image and divide our loyalty.
    Some are even born with double personalities and they have the habit of deceive and lying.
    What good are they???

  268. Mr Shamshul Annuar,
    Under the style of the present leadership, more and more younger generation will follow his step to dominate in the future.
    I believe Umno will go alone ruling the country then.
    Look at the putras now!
    They’re very boastful and have started threatening others already, while the older ones keep mum.
    That’s the serious problem we’re facing!!!

  269. So much about heckling and critism here.
    Guess no point of arguing anymore.
    Come this Saturday, is the day of our destiny.
    If Barisan were to win two third, bye-bye to Malaysia for good ‘cos “I’m leaving on the jet plane and won’t be back here again”.
    If the opposition were to garner enough votes, then peace and sunshine for me here.
    Wish you all and the opposition luck!

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