Why are the MCA, Gerakan, MIC and other non-Muslim Ministers silent on another body-snatching case after the divisive Moorthy case two years ago where S. kaliammal, the widow of Everest mountaineer L/Kpl M. Moorthy, found only grief and injustice when she had no remedy in any court in the dispute as to whether her husband was a Hindu or a Muslim?
At the time, Malaysians were given the assurance that the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and his Barisan Nasional cabinet ministers would ensure that Malaysian inter-racial and inter-religious unity and harmony as well as Malaysia’s international reputation as a model of multi-religious nation would not again be marred by more body-snatching incidents.
However, the body-snatching incidents have not stopped, with the latest case involving the police seizing the body of Gan Eng Gor, who died a week ago aged 74, after his eldest son – himself a Muslim convert – said he had converted to Islam last year. This claim had been challenged by Gan’s wife and his seven other children.
(Speech at the DAP Kepayang dinner in Ipoh Barat on Sunday, 27th January 2008 at 10 pm)
The aggrieved family over Gan’s body-snatching has put up a website,
http://hsiauchuen.wordpress.com/, to plead for “justice and fair playâ€, giving a heart-rending account of the deep pain and suffering caused by the “body-snatching.
I am going to do something I have never done before. I am now reading from the website of the Gan family from the Internet accessed through my mobile phone, as it is important that Malaysians understand the grief and injustice felt by the Gan family:
This is the background provided by the Gan family on their website:
(See website)
Let Gan Eng Gor be the last body-snatching case in Malaysia.
The Cabinet Ministers should stop shirking their responsibilities to the people and nation and should place the Gan Eng Gor case on the top of Cabinet agenda on Wednesday to put an immediate end to all “body-snatchings†in Malaysia.
(Speech at the DAP Kepayang dinner in Ipoh Barat on Sunday, 27th January 2008 at 10 pm)
The man was buried without the family being present. I am sure the wife would have preferred to see the body being buried but being denied this privilege, she is going to carry to her death the resentment the religious people were cruel. Consider her agony as a wife, would any wife demure in carrying out the last rites of her husband. The last rites are symbolic to her, it is the last rite to indicate she is now a widow. In practical sense, she becomes a widow once the husband dies, but to the world it signifies the breaking up of the husband-wife relationship as the body is lowered to the ground.
In this case the man is buried as a vagrant and a nobody when by choice he has a wife, and a family to ensure he is buried according to his religious rights practiced by the family. Is she or the family ever going to be at peace the way the dead body has been disposed off and the other fear of the wrath of the Gods they pray to, for not ensuring their love one passed on graciously.
http://aarvidi.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/religious-burial/
Don’t depend on this Cabinet to do anything except look after their own self interests.
This case is similar to the case of divorce and then child snatching.
It is possible that the family strongly opposed the son’s conversion and the guy wanted to get revenge on way he had been treated.
Looks like angry people will make use of such religious methods to spite their own relatives. This sort of thing will continue unless we make sure that those judges in the courts are able to make decisions unclouded by their own religious feelings.
DAP?PKR should make this a plank for the GE.
For me, the body-snatching can be read as including assets-snatching as well. It is quite obvious where the inheritance will go.
Uncle Lim
If Prohphet Mohamed was still alive, what would he do in this case?
Would he decide differently?
Cabinet is afraid of backlash from religious department and being seen by Malay/Muslim constitutency as not doing sufficient to champion the pre-eminence of Islam as official religion of the country.
Malaysia’s slide into a Sunni Islamic Theocracy seems to continue unabated at the expense of the country’s 40% minority Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, and other religious adherents’ expense.
[ ]
Malaysia would join the likes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the former Taliban controlled Afghanistan in enforcing these rules on its population.
http://grieboskireport.blogspot.com/2008/01/malaysia-troubling-development-of.html
I appeal to DAP, MCA, Gerakan, MIC, etc to put aside their political differences as this case concerns all of us.
Whether you support DAP, MCA, Gerakan, MIC, etc, it doesn’t really matter to these irreligious dead body snatchers as they will still rob the body of your beloved family member. They don’t care. They already have robbed us of our money, opportunity for tertiary education, etc. What else do they want from us? Even the dead body of our family member they still want to rob?
These idiots are really damn cruel and heartless bigots!
They can take away our properties, deprive us from having good education, steal “rakyat” money, force us to pay extra for housing, etc but stealing the body of our family member is something that we should NOT & NEVER allow!
So once again I appeal to the leaders DAP, MCA, Gerakan, MIC, etc to put aside their political differences as all of us are going to suffer if this kind of thing is allowed to happen in our beloved Malaysia.
Our future in Malaysia is bleak. If we cannot turn to MCA, Gerakan, & MIC who are component parties of BN, then who else we could turn to? We have no one to turn to.
Dear leaders of United Nations & United States of America & European Union,
If you read this message, I appeal to you to please help us Malaysians as we are discriminated by this cruel apartheid regime.
this eldest son is a traitor to his own ancestors.
Boycottlocalpapers,
Friend, you seem to be begging MCA, MIC and Gerakan for help.
How can they help you when their intentions of being in BN is amass riches for themselves and their families.
If indeed they have been fighting for Chinese/Indian rights, would these communities be in such dire straits today?
Do not forget. These parties which you are begging for alms, were the ones who sat with the cabinet to bar Christians from using the word ‘Allah’.
If they can not defend a simple issue as this one, do you expect them to fight against body-snatching?
I think these MCA/MIC ministers will not lift their finger even if their next of kin’s body is snatched away.
Place your hope on MCA/MIC/Gerkan, then be assured your community is doomed.
Give your vote to the DAP if you want your next generation to have a rightful place in this country.
So what good is a dead body, be it Muslim or otherwise?
The BN government is not a suitable government to continue to hold the rakyat’s mandate -they feel that they have strong support (mostly from ignorant and unlearned’ kampung folks)…
Perhaps…they only ready to do something if UNITED NATION impose trade sanction….
Dear BoycottLocal papers,
You should address your message to MCA and Gerakan. They are part and parcel of the mess created by BN. If MCA or Gerakan or MIC for that matter stands firm during their weekly meeting on policies, there won’t be such rampant robberies of bodies.
For a start in this case, just ask the Gan’s family to go and ask Ong Ka Ting or Koh Tsu Khoon to use their good offices to have the body handed back, those two leaders would shiver in their pants .
As I said many times, many of us are voting BN and to pay for our follies later on.
As a matter of interest: In this coming GE, do not be hoodwinked by the many free dinners or lunches provided by BN or MCA. Actually it is the businessmen who funded the dinners. When BN win, the businessmen will benefit by ways of contracts and ‘lubangs’ open to them. The victorious MPs would then go on ‘merry making. And you poor voters will lick your wounds later on. To have oour voce heard: VOTE DAP or Keadilan!
It’s must be very hard for Senior Gan to die in peace. It’s Karma.
Well, the stories may have a much detail lines later as the Gan siblings may have enough reason especially the eldest who planned well to surprise the rest.
It’s a dog eat dog world…
Dear Malaysians,
The Majlis Agama authorities and the Syariah court seems like two organizations that undermine the freedom of other religious activities. What pleasure do they get in snatching a dead body to bring it to another place for another burial ceremony? Is the Muslim religion so intolerant to people from other religions?
Pak Lah’s quietness in this matter makes him look very vulnerable. He is capable and with his ratings plunging lower and lower, allows us to question if he is fit to run for PM for another term? Hishamuddin and Najib are equally same as they all flock together.
Perhaps God have some answers for us. God, please help us with this difficult time.
May God bless Malaysia.
If the dead is a muslim, the will he wrote before his death will be void.
Guess who will benefit from it…..
Gan Senior ought to have disowned his eldest son years ago and forbade that son from entering his house. Then all this nonsense would not had occured. By the way, even though he had been buried as a moslem, will Gan Senior be allowed into the Big Mosque In The Sky? (The Big Taoist Temple In The Sky may not accept him now)
Hi ktteokt,
You said “So what good is a dead body, be it Muslim or otherwise?”
Well, it certainly doesn’t make any sense like this but there are suspicions that the eldest son does this to get the inheritance.
I must say that these suspicions are quite valid if we look at the following points:
a) The family can afford to send the deceased to numerous hospitals and even overseas to seek treatment. It seems that the family is doing quite well financially to afford the medical fees.
b) According to the family, the eldest son (the muslim convert) has been estranged from the family for years. If the deceased has created a will, it would most likely be that he would get little or none of the inheritance.
c) If the father is declared as a muslim and buried as a muslim, the syariah court may judge in favor of the muslim convert, giving him the lion’s share or even all of the inheritance since the rest of the family are non-muslims.
Disclaimer: I made this analysis from data I gathered from the blogs and some inference from the data gathered. I haven’t had access to information from the eldest son or other sources. Therefore, I can’t claim that my analysis are unbiased and accurate.
However, the suspicions are valid given the circumstances.
Finally, may GOD bless Gan Eng Gor’s soul.
When they locked up Anwar Ibrahim,
I remained silent;
I was not a Malay.
When they came for Ayah Pin,
I remained silent;
I was not a Muslim.
When they came for Lina Joy,
I remained silent;
I was not a Malay Christian.
When they destroyed the church of the Orang Asli,
I did not speak out;
I was not an Orang Asli.
When they snatched away Moorthy’s body,
I did not speak out;
I was not Moorthy’s wife.
When they came for R. Subashini’s children,
I did not speak out;
I was not R. Subashini’s relative.
When they came for Revathi Masoosai,
I did not speak out;
I was not an Indian.
When they destroyed Hindu temples.
I did not speak out;
I was not a Hindu.
When they came for the Hindus,
I remained silent;
I was not a Hindu.
When they came for the Taoists in Sabah,
I remained silent;
I was not a Taoist who lives in Sabah.
When they came for the Christians,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Christian.
When they came for the Buddhists,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Buddhist.
When they came for the DAP,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a member of DAP.
When they came for the MIC,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a member of MIC.
When they came for the Gerakan,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a member of Gerakan.
When they came for the MCA,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a member of MCA.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out
How about the whole Gan family convert to Islam? Since you can’t control the wind, you need to adjust your sail…
cheng Says:
Today at 13: 16.09 (43 seconds ago)
How about the whole Gan family convert to Islam? Since you can’t control the wind, you need to adjust your sail…
………………………………………………..
Are you being sarcastic, cynical, or serious?
Will you convert to Islam if that happens to your family?
I hope you are not serious or trying to be funny. The Gan family has suffered enough. To suggest to them to convert to Islam is ridiculous. Furthermore, this is exactly what these irreligious bigots wanted you to do as according to their Arabian law, the property will go to the eldest son. Succumbing to this kind of intimidation that you suggested is the reason why the Middle East was Arabized after being conquered by the Arab invaders.
Abdullah dijangka melantik TPM Kedua bukan Melayu?
Posted by Raja Petra
Wednesday, 26 December 2007
Jawatan Timbalan Perdana Menteri Kedua (TPM2) dijangka diwujudkan jika Barisan Nasional (BN) memenangi Pilihan Raya Umum Ke-12 akan datang dan Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi pula kembali dilantik sebagai Perdana Menteri.
Sumber-sumber berautoriti memberitahu blog ini bahawa jawatan berkenaan dijangka diberikan kepada MCA. Hasrat ini suah pun disampaikan oleh Abdullah kepada Presiden MCA, Datuk Seri Ong Ka Teng, baru-baru ini.
Adalah dipercayai bahawa Abdullah membuat keputusan untuk mewujudkan TPM2 ini bagi memenangi hati dan sokongan masyarakat bukan Melayu, teruatama sekali kaum Cina, supaya menyokong BN dalam PRU Ke-12.
Ini kerana beberapa kajian yang telah dijalankan oleh beberapa pihak research professional menunjukkan bahawa sokongan masyarakat Cina kepada Abdullah dan BN ketika ini adalah terlalu tipis.
WE DONT NEED BN AND MORE DPM COST MORE MONEY TO RUN THE COUNTRY… PLEASE VOTE STUPID BN AND ITS DOGS OUT FROM PARLIAMENT…
So that’s why Chua SL was videotaped and ousted — so that OKT can have no opponents in grabbing the Timbalan Perdana Menteri Kedua (TPM2) post.
What is the use of “TPM2 bukan Melayu” when he has no authority to stop irreligious bigots (most of them probably studied in Pakistan) from stealing, robbing, & snatching children and dead bodies of beloved family member from non-Muslims?
In fact, the PM himself has no power to stop these irreligious bigots from body snatching even if he wanted to.
This country has no future unless the United Nations, Britain, United States of America & European Union enforce trade embargo, force sanction upon Malaysia. Since we cannot rely on any of the parties in the BN government nor could we rely on DAP & PKR to help us since UMNO will not listen to DAP & PKR, we have no other choice but to seek help from UN & the superpowers out there. Hopefully, the future President of United States is more like Al Gore. Can George Bush help us Malaysians before leaving office?
Now, I am beginning to doubt the history books that I read in secondary school about the British colonisation of Malaysia. Perhaps life under the British is much better than life under UMNO. e.g. just look at Hong Kong when it was under the British.
Perhaps what we read in our history books are just lies and propaganda made by UMNO to stir hatred towards the British, etc so that the young children will grow up to support UMNO. That is what happened to me when I supported BN. Now, with the Internet, I no longer trust what was written in the local newspapers nor do I trust our “historical” textbooks. They are just lies and propaganda made by the BN government.
If you have watched TV3 and read local newspapers you will probably know what I meant e.g. too much anti-Jews, anti-Israel, anti-America propaganda on TV3.
going to MCA, Gerakan, MIC..for what. They are part of the people who approved the constitution amendment that is causing all these problems. Now they look the other way or help with some cheap advice. Vote against them!!! They are not the solution. The courts are but that is a big battle cos the courts are also washing their hands. Get Karpal or someone to sue and sue until you get a fair hearing.
MCA, Gerakan, MIC, PPP etc all agreed to the declaration of `Malaysia Is An Islamic State`.
Which is why all this happens.
Dr M declared Malaysia as an Islamic Country contrary to the constitution of the country. We are now living under the Islamic administration and regime. Why are we supporting MCA, MIC, Gerakan and PPP when they are in partnership with UMNO the Islamist party. DAP should not apologise for working with PAS and PKR because the BN parties are in support of establishing an Islamic state in Malaysia. Examples of Islamisation
1. Body snatching
2. Destroying Hindu and Chinese temples and churches.
3. Banning use of the word Allah by non muslims
You all know who to support in the coming elections. May justice prevail in Malaysia
If Muslims wanted to practise Islam, then go ahead and practise their faith. I have no objection as long as they do not bother me and force me to convert.
If Muslims wanted to shout with the loudspeaker at full blast early in the morning or late at night, then go ahead and do it. I have no objection. I believe in freedom of religion for all.
But why must (some) Muslim leaders discriminate others who do not share the same faith?
Looking at what is happening now in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Southern Thailand, Southern Philippine, parts of Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, France, Britain, USA on 9/11, Kelantan (& now other parts of Malaysia), non-Muslims in Malaysia are justified in their fear of this religion called “Islam.” Just read the blog of Raja Petra Kamaruddin and you will see that even among the Malay/Muslims, there are those like Raja Petra who are not happy the way “Islam” is being practised in this country.
Many Muslim leaders are demanding respect of their religion from non-Muslims, but at the same time they acted hypocritically and do not respect the religion of others.
If the Muslim leaders in this country treat non-Muslims fairly, do not discriminate non-Muslims, give non-Muslims the same opportunities as Muslims, etc then don’t you think that the non-Muslims in Malaysia will respect Islam more? That is how you improve the image of Islam. There is no point to go overseas to preach to the Westerners and tell them how good Islam is and demand respect from the Westerners when at your own backyard, you are mistreating the non-Muslims. Hypocrites like the these are the ones who are tarnishing the image of Islam and definitely not the Jews or Israel or USA!
This latest incidence is scary and very, very serious indeed and has a consequence that affects all non-Mislim families in Malaysia.
Based on what has been written in various blogs about this incidence, the folllowing scenario is very possible.
Imagine you come from a non-Muslim family. Your father or mother is rich or very rich, and they do not like you. You are not sure whether you will be one of the benefactors of their will.
Simple solution: On the quiet, you convert to become a muslim. On the sly and without their knowledge, you thumbprint your father or mother on a document that says that they agree to become a muslim as well. They continue on their lifestyle as a non-Muslim and when they pass away, you produce the document to claim their body to be buried as a Muslim and you probably have access to their properties and valuables, all by yourself.
A new quick way to get rich in Malaysia, via the Muslim way!
Based on what the Gan family members had written, we can see that the above scenario is already happening. And the normal court has no say over this matter. Very convenient indeed.
The eldest Muslim convert son had somehow managed to get things going his way. It looks like the religious body was so hard up for Muslims – even to the extent of claiming a dead body to be a Muslim, based on a piece of dubious paper, when the person, when alive, was not known to practise the religion and was obviously doing things the haram way.
Why is Islam causing so much misery to non-Muslims in Malaysia?
And this is all happening under BN (i.e., UMNO, MCA, Gerakan, MIC, etc) rule, with MCA, Gerakan, MIC, and others self-proclaiming that they are inside BN to protect the interests of various non-Malay communities! Tsk, tsk!
Mesia is a taliban state you mean?
I am inclined to believe the family’s version of the conversion. It sounds more plausible in the absence of any concrete evidence produced otherwise by the Islamic authorities. The lone testimony of the eldest son has to be weighed against that of his entire family, including his mother’s. One also has to question his motive if he is prepared to hurt all his family members, especially his own mother.
I shudder to think that now even in death, these bigots are prepared to trample on our rights. As some bloggers has posted, the dead man was buried almost as a vagrant without a single family member present to pay their respects. Under the guise of protecting the dead man’s alleged converted status and to bury him as a Muslim, they are prepared to humiliate him in death by denying any member of his family to bury him with dignity. The family has to add to their grieve the thought they will never have closure of the death of Gan Eng Gor because they were robbed of their right to send him off with dignity and love.
As for the Cabinet, the non Muslim members which are no better than a bunch of eunuchs, are too afraid to antagonise their muslim voters so near election time. They are also afraid of upsetting their UMNO masters lest they lose their bargaining powers for seats.
I agree everyone has freedom to choose a faith.
When a man who has embraced Taoism & buddhism all 73 years and changed to Islam in the last year of his life should have some unmistakable outward expression from that change – the zeal to observe all practice of Islam.The late Mr.Gan has a whole year to show his new faith.
The fact that he was still PORK eating sends a powerful signal that he was either being cheated by his recently converted eldest son or he was forced to put his thump print on the conversion document by those visiting Islamic officers in the absence of any other non muslim family member. (This is so unwise, well so STUPID of those Islamic officers, they should have exercised extreme tact they were dealing with a sick, sienile old man who has a non muslim wife and 7 other non muslim children,they should be FIRED left right & center!)
The conversion is therfore null & void. All benefit of doubt should be given to his WIFE. Instead the Islamic court chose to be a BULLDOZER, more stupid than those fellow officers. Its sickening!
http://bright-i.blogspot.com/
Look at the photo of Madam Gan here http://bp1.blogger.com/_R4DtpUMN8Eo/R5s1GDBQTuI/AAAAAAAABnQ/TgzRoykrRDo/s400/GanWidow1.JPG , I feel so sorry for her and very angry at those irreligious bigots. I do not know what
Is this the way those irreligious bigots taught the eldest son who converted to their religion to treat his mother when his father dies?
When I was in national school, I used to attend the Ugama Islam class and heard the Ustaz taught that “Syurga di bawah telapak kaki ibu” (Heaven Under Mother’s Feet). In this case, what would those irreligious bigots teach the unfilial son about heaven? Lucky I didn’t die in the Ugama Islam class. If not I don’t know what would happen. But during my non-Islam Hadhari time, the majority of Malays are friendly as most of the religious teachers probably have not studied in Pakistan.
I do not understand the mentality of these irreligious bigots who wanted us to respect their “Islam Hadhari.” Do they actually take pride in seeing non-Muslims suffer? Is that how they gain respect for their religion?
To safeguard the interest of family members, from now onwards, non-Muslim parents should make it a point to legally disown any of their children that converted to Islam. We have no choice as this is the least we could do as the law is not on our side and we do not have any law to protect our interests and neither do we have politicians in power who are interested to defend and protect our interest.
Rocky said:
“Get Karpal or someone to sue and sue until you get a fair hearing.”
I believe Karpal, being the voice of the rakyat, will help.
But reading Malaysiakini latest report on Lingam’s tape, Anwar’s latest revelation on the degree of corruption in the judiciary makes me sick to the core.
For your information the latest video showed that Justice Dzaiddin was showered with expensive gift from the scoundrel himself and the so called big fat tycoon.
With this type of judiciary, even Karpal Singh combined with his sons and other renown lawyers have no match for the scoundrel. Not because Karpl is not up to standard, but because he sees it despicable to stoop to this low pariah level just to win cases.
I wonder if PAS prone to body-snatching too?
bila jalan!
if gomen or whoever want to tanam me as muslim, tanamlah!
asalkan diaorang bahagia!
not matter what, in heaven or hell, im still a buddhist!
yang kat atas tu, sure pusing kepala???
sebab, ada sesetengah orang kat bawah nak play god!
Najip and Kairi are also good in body snatching, but is “live body”?
dawsheng Says:
Today at 16: 04.28 (20 minutes ago)
I wonder if PAS prone to body-snatching too?
…………………………………………………………………
Don’t need to wonder. They are secretly or openly PAS supporters.
I once personally heard that infamous bigot mufti preached and he is very anti-UMNO and indirectly or subliminally asking his audience to vote for PAS.
I hope Yang Berhormat Lim Kit Siang could give this speech of King Aragorn II to the leaders of MCA, Gerakan, MIC, & other component parties of BN who are blinded by greed to bring them back to their senses because I fear this day would come to Malaysia sooner than later when we have no choice but to flee from Malaysia, live under persecution, or fight back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgSdiX0kDI
This is no longer about NEP or no NEP. This matter is more important than the abolishment of NEP. If you want to have NEP for the next 1000 years, then go ahead and have it. As long as you do not forcefully take away the body of my beloved family member or my children away from me, I don’t care whether you want to have NEP for 1000 years or 2000 years.
MCA, Gerakan, MIC, DAP, etc should put aside their political differences for a moment before it is too late. Settle your political differences later in the future. But now, we have to unite with one voice and put a stop to this nonsense by irreligious bigots.
most probably the son-of-a-Gan conspired with the “holey” men who came to raid the poor family.
Get that man to be an Islam convert, then he gets all the inheritance and then he will give some $$ to those “holey” men.
Pity the late Mr. Gan for having such a child. Would really be much better to severe all ties with him before he died. Anyway, what is the logic in giving all inheritance to such a child who did nothing to help or care for the father then come back when the father dies to claim inheritance?
If this is the case, then does Islam give more importance to technicalities instead of real practice of compassion and love?
Its obvious that the eldest son has done something NASTY and those Islamic officers were taken in for a ride. (or were they bribed???)
Its mind boggling why PKR & PAS have yet to come out to give a shelling at the tactless, loveless, insane action of those Islamic officers, not to mention the Islamic court’s bulldozer attitude that have brought a bad name to Islam.
ahkok1982 Says:
Today at 17: 05.31 (9 minutes ago)
most probably the son-of-a-Gan conspired with the “holey†men who came to raid the poor family.
Get that man to be an Islam convert, then he gets all the inheritance and then he will give some $$ to those “holey†men.
Pity the late Mr. Gan for having such a child. Would really be much better to severe all ties with him before he died. Anyway, what is the logic in giving all inheritance to such a child who did nothing to help or care for the father then come back when the father dies to claim inheritance?
If this is the case, then does Islam give more importance to technicalities instead of real practice of compassion and love
…………………………………………………………
GOOD question there.
I think this is no longer about inheritance alone.
If the “God” of this “Islam Hadhari” promoted by this PAK LAH place more importance towards confession of certain Arabic words than being filial towards your parents, then I don’t find he is worthy to be worshipped.
If this “God” accept this unfilial son who did not take care of his late father when he was alive and breaks his mother’s heart after his father dies to heaven while rejecting those children who took care of his parents, then I think he is an unjust “god” who is not worthy to be worshipped. I doubt that is the case because when I was in school, I heard my Ustaz said that Allah is Compassionate & Merciful. But if Allah is Compassionate and Merciful, then why followers of Islam Hadhari are not compassionate and merciful?
Wonder this “body snatching” is unique in Msia or same in other Islam countries? Also, is this common during before TDM days (1957 to 1981) in Msia.?? Base on this Gan EC case, looks like no solid proof that this old man had converted?? Eldest son likely be eyeing old man assets?
Any non muslim, who make a will, must CLEARLY stated that he or she had NEVER n will NEVER convert to Islam!!
cheng on soo Says:
Today at 17: 33.58 (3 minutes ago)
Wonder this “body snatching†is unique in Msia or same in other Islam countries? Also, is this common during before TDM days (1957 to 1981) in Msia.?? Base on this Gan EC case, looks like no solid proof that this old man had converted?? Eldest son likely be eyeing old man assets?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Judging from the news websites on the Internet, I think this “body snatching†is unique to Malaysia only, because so far I have not come across this type of news in other countries. We can be considered more fortunate because in other Islamic countries we can hear Muslims are killing each other through suicide bombing. bombing the mosques of Shia, burning churches, etc.
How can Gan Senior converted to Islam last year in Gan’s eldest son house when the former had never been to the latter’s house and how can the latter recite koranic verses when 3 doctors certified he could not talk.If this is not a SHAM then what is?
If this can happen to Gan, who is to prevent that MP Baharuddin from Kedah claiming Lim Kit Siang and Karpal Singh were Muslims and Guan Eng and Jobind Deo are chased out from the High Court when they challenged that their fathers were Muslims.
There is no bigger issue for non-Muslims than this!!! If the High Court refuses even to hear a SHAM being inflicted then where is the basic human rights of non-Muslims? What can be more basic than this!!.Seeing that the High Court will not hear such cases will only encourage many to claim that people like YB who is somebody and those who have money and those whom they dislike are Muslims. No one is safe.
The Govt.only recognise demonstration and if that is so then we have to have one. There is no other way to stop the rot. Can someone please organise it.
Sorry to digress Breaking news: Lingam tape 3 is out:-
http://bright-i.blogspot.com/2008/01/blog-post_28.html
The man had a stroke two years ago, and was bedridden. And last year he converted to Islam. Well done.
I wonder whether he abstained from pork, and only consumed halal meats and prayed 5 times a day and fasted during the fasting month?
What makes one a muslim?
“cheng on soo Says:
Today at 17: 40.51 (2 hours ago)
Any non muslim, who make a will, must CLEARLY stated that he or she had NEVER n will NEVER convert to Islam!!”
I wonder if one can make a will stating one shall never convert to Islam unless clearly letting at least more than two family members knows, so that there will be no surprises?
Can we have a good standard legal will to guard against such surprises??
Actually i think it is not too difficult for religious dept to have some filtering measures. (e.g.) video tape the process of conversion to islam.
I believe that one of the most important moments in life is being able to BE THERE when a loved one has gone and say the LAST farewell and MOURN for them. It is sad to see that the Gan Eng Gor family can’t.
Injustice!!! The Gan family must fight to get back their rights. Hopefully DAP can help the family.
In the event nothing can be done I suggest that the Gan family carried out the chinese burial ceremony on the Muslim burial ground now and every year during Cheng Beng.
Truth and Justice for Malaysian
Yes, I agree with Samson there. I do not know how the Gan family handled this situation. If they physically fight with these strangers for the body of their father when these irreligious bigot strangers took away the body of their father or rake back the body after the burial, I will not blame them as I myself do not know what to do in this type of situation. Furthermore, these strangers have no right to take the body of their father away from them. These irreligious bigots are very cruel!
This kind of situation really make us non-Muslims in Malaysia really feel helpless as there is no law to protect us from these irreligious bigots and the police who is supposed to help us will not do anything to stop these irreligious bigots from harming us.
CORRECTION:
rake back = take back
the elder son didn’t take care of his father who he claimed who was a muslim. The father was eating in a non halal house. That is a big sin and the muslim son has dine a terriblething even the converting of his father will not be able to give ‘pahala’ to recover from things he did not do as a muslim son. what kind of son is this guy? even a non muslim son knows to take care of the father and provide for him. what kind of muslim son is this? doesn’t islam say take care of the elders?
really sick son…but heck a ‘good’ muslim…
May be this is a LESSON for ALL non-muslims to make a declaration in writing every time a member of their family has decided to embrace ISLAM to say that he or she is no longer connected to the family and do not want to have anything to do with him or her!! Otherwise, the friendly attitude can be linked to conversion by association!!
Soon everyone could die as one, whenever someone decided to proclaim that you have some how ‘converted’ without you knowing.! Is corpse counting is indeed that important for the ‘progress’ of any faith??
I have attended several funerals where the deceased died as a Christian but buried in accordance with Buddhist/Toaist rites. Such incidences do occur when the deceased decided to become a Christian (before he died) with the full knowledge of some members of the family. However other members of the family (normally the elder or more influential male siblings) do not recognised the conversion.
When confronted with such dilemma, Church pastors would advise that the deceased be buried following a non-Christian rites to maintain peace and harmony in the family. Why? Are the Christians weaker in their faith?
No! Christians believe that upon death, they will be given a new body and there is no need to fight over a dead body. Death is a period of joy for Christians as the deceased will be in HIS kingdom.
What is most baffling, is why should the Islamic authorities fight like hell to seize a dead body of a person who has been eating pork and therefore is obviously “haram” to be buried in a “halal” Muslim cemetry? Wouldn’t the dead body then pollute the halal cemetry?
It is time for the BN government to review the dichotomy between Muslim and non-Muslim religions before it becomes a “holy war”. Islam as practised in Malaysia is a one-way street. Masuk boleh; Keluar Tak Boleh. How could a Hindu father, upon becoming a Muslim, converts his underaged child to become a Muslim? After that the poor child upon becoming an adult, he cannot choose the religion of his choice?
If the child choose to marry a Catholic girl later in his life, he cannot do it unless she converts even though the Koran allows marriage amongst people of the Book ie Jews, Christians and Muslims. Malaysia prohibits such marriage but allowed in many Islamic countries.
Is this the justice and compassion as preached by the prophet Mohamad (pbuh)in Islam? I am sure the prophet will object to this body snatching exercise to increase the Muslim statistics! .
Vote Opposition. Vote DAP. “Just Change It”
“In the event nothing can be done I suggest that the Gan family carried out the chinese burial ceremony on the Muslim burial ground now and every year during Cheng Beng.” Samson
Stoking the flames of racial discord is irresponsible to say the least, and what’s more may get the host in deep trouble. There are enemies of the DAP waiting for comments on this blog like this one.
The moment Gan senior converted to Islam, if at all he did, his marriage to his non Muslim wife will be annulled, if she did not follow him and convert. So what did the Islamic religious department do about Gan Senior, after he converted to Islam, if at all he did, by giving him lessons in Islam and how to pray etc etc.
If at all Gan senior converted to Islam, his children should be Muslims too? We now know that the deceased had objected to his son making his name Abdullah, ironically he made his father Abdullah as well. Muslims should know that not all those who convert to marry your children get the blessings of their family, but smiles shown are artificial.
Why was his wife not informed? Is the Islamic Religious department more interested in statistics that another born non Muslim has taken the one way street into Islam? Our Press take pride in highlighting non Muslims converting to islam, and if it is a white person the greater the publicity. The Islamic religious department should not allow people to convert to Islam like changing clothes.
A pronunciation by the Syariah Court does not bind the non Muslims, but because the guns are with the Police, we obey but obey out of fear.
Why are the Royal Malaysia Police Force assisting to enforce religious state law which is not Federal Law? Will the Royal Malaysia Police force help a non Muslim spouse get back a body of a born Muslim who has murtaded?
When Kelantan wanted to enforce Hudud, the Police say that are out of it.Why be present at the funeral? Can the Police be neutral,impartial? I fear not.
All you guys who have converted to Islam, spread the word round that your spouse can be with with your family. Will Lina Joy enjoy such relationship or her husband take his in- laws shopping?
Which religion is tolerant ? I am told that Islam is The Religion of Peace(TROP). Where can I find this Islam?
To the Gan family, they have taken his body, but not his soul. They cant stop you from observing whatever rites you want to do, and do at home.
QUOTE
kaybeegee Says:
Today at 02: 19.47 (27 minutes ago)
Which religion is tolerant ? I am told that Islam is The Religion of Peace(TROP). Where can I find this Islam?
END QUOTE
………………………………………………………………..
BoycottLocalPapers Says:
There is no such thing because Muslims have been fighting against fellow Muslims since the beginning of Islam. If you refer to articles about Islam at Raja Petra’s blog and your Sejarah textbook or if you have attended Ugama Islam class (as in my case I stayed in the class during the Islamic lesson when I was in national school), I am sure you have heard about civil wars among the first followers of this Religion of Peace.
Can the following documents of conversion with its numerous errors hold up in court? Click on each document to enlarge
http://hsudarren.wordpress.com/2008/01/27/documents-of-the-alleged-conversion/
Religion of Peace?
Psst, George Bush is also a man of PEACE. Look at the millions of Afghans and Iraqis he has slaughtered to date so that he can have PEACE. Dead people will not disturb the peace
Why is PAS say nothing about this case and why did Anwar been keeping quiet too? Uncle Kit, you should press them for some answers (since PKR had an electoral pact with DAP), at least make a statement on whether they (PAS or PKR) support body-snatching or dead against it. We needs some answers.
Body snatching practise is for religion and people with inferiority complex and low EQ. Remember they guy who asked by an international news channel about Lina Joy? I don’t remember the name of that idiot, not worth remembering. Anyway, he said something like this, “…if we allow that, Malay will be finished…”. He said Malay, not Islam. Don’t ask me, you should know why he said that.
You know, that kind of people is always living under imaginery threat. When they see a temple or church, they feel offended. I don’t feel offended with any temple, mosque, or church. They have no vision, it is all about fight. What are they going to do when the fight is over? They will just feel “shiok” for a while and find something else to fight for again. Read the Romance of the Three Kingdom. People is planning for peace and how to rule the country in advance before the war.
Serial rapist don’t actually go for sex. They love to see the victims fight back and then overpower the victims.
If everyone of us converted to Islam, these people will be dumb strucked. To win, give your opponent a surprise. Read the Book of Five Rings by samurai warrior, Musashi Miyamoto, pretty much like the Sun Tzu Art of War.
Being emotional is definitely of no help…
UMNO should pass a law that in future if any non Muslim converts to islam, here in Malaysia, irrespective of his or her nationality,UMNO the Government will have the proud and happy occassion published by way of a legal anouncement in all newspapers in Malaysia.Not just the conversion of non Muslims to islam when announcing a marriage to a Muslim by the newspapers.
The new Muslim should have no objections to such anouncements.
I read the documents in hsudarrens blog. Incredible that such incomplete documents can be accepted in such a solemn occassion like a change of religion.
Unfortunately Muslim judges, whether Civil or Syariah are duty bound to also convert non Muslims to Islam. They cant allow “one to get away”.
UMNO should use the multi religious resources of Malaysia to handle such issues. Get a Judge who is neither Muslim nor Buddhist to determine such cases in future.
I am not sure whether real Islam wants converts who are just hypocrites….those for marriage…..for position…..for convenience.One thing for sure you must convert out of your own free will to be Muslim. The guy or woman who converts to get married is that being done on own free will?
This issue has found it’s way to Faithfreedom.org, and now the whole world will know how Islam is being practiced in Malaysia.
I wonder why no Malays are protesting about this. Their inaction & silence will make the non-Muslims to hate Islam even more. And I won’t blame them.
It would be very interesting to question Shasainie Siau (bad meaning in hokkien) Abdullah in any court of law who had witnessed the alleged thumb print at the address stated when the senior Gan was not even there. Why don’t the press or news media interview this Shasainie Siau whose position, office and department are stated the the declaration certificate to get to the bottom of the truth?
In the Maklumat Memohon, the converting authority don’t even know who the wife and family of Gan Eng Gor are. There is not even a photo of Gan which probably supports the evidence that Gan wasn’t even there. The dates are untidily changed for some reason and superimposed with new dates. To top it all, there is not even an officer from the islamic authority to “sahkan” the Ikrar Memeluk Agama Islam! The whole episode runs smacks of a hastily done con job or forgery.
This low entry level imposed by the islamic authorities will only attract adulteries, asset snatchers, revengers and others not of pure heart as members. It shows the authorities are just hard-up for members and not the genuine love for propagation of the goodness of Islam!
It does not help either when the Syariah courts endorse the muslim son of Gan. Is this the low standard of evidence accepted by the Syariah court. How can such a court with a low standard and credibility be an official court in Malaysia even surpassing the civil courts? It’s a laughing stock of the world!
The fact that a Syariah court judge who is supposedly beyond material things is caught red handed with accepting bribes recently of a small amount speaks volume about the credibility of this court! Again, it doesn’t help either, in the Lingam RCI the judges who are mentioned accepting gifts and moneys are also of a certain religion!
“Stoking the flames of racial discord is irresponsible to say the least, and what’s more may get the host in deep trouble. There are enemies of the DAP waiting for comments on this blog like this one.”-DarkHorse
This has nothing to do with stoking the racial discord. This is the matter of rituals/ceremonials beliefs, the constitutional rights which should be accorded to the affected family. To a Chinese, which the Muslims bigots can never understand, customary ceremonies and rituals are important, therefore to snatch the body from the family will deprive the family from performing the rituals and rites for the beloved father at the burial or in the event of upcoming festivals.
In the mind of the family, the deceased father did not convert to Muslim and died as a Taoist/Buddhist. In Chinese traditions/beliefs, it is the duty of the living to pray for and feed the dead during Cheng Beng. So unjustly was the body been taken away with NO RESPECT to the mourning family therefore it is fair that at least the family members be given the rights to perform their ceremonial rites during any up coming Chinese festivals at the burial site.
In terms of legal implications as to whether the deceased is a Muslim or not, there is NONE as the case was an outright robbery and snatching by the authorities. Clearly we see great INJUSTICE has been done to the Chinese minority family.
The party that started the racial discords and injustice are always the people in authority.
JUSTICE MUST prevail to ALL.
“JUSTICE MUST prevail to ALL.”
When the law has been manipulated, justice is no longer justice. But ideologues on the internet will not bring the justice we seek nearer.
“In the event nothing can be done I suggest that the Gan family carried out the chinese burial ceremony on the Muslim burial ground now and every year during Cheng Beng.†Samson
To do so would be to blasphemy Islam. You don’t want to do that.
Malaysia has twisted and distorted Islam to suit its likes and fancies. This makes Malaysian Islam a “MUTANT” which cannot be accepted in Islamic countries, so how can it then proclaim itself to be an ISLAMIC NATION?
There is no case of Body-Snatching in other Muslim countries.
In wahhabi Saudi Arabia, in taliban Afghanistan, in extremist Iran, there is not a single case of non-Muslims snatached and buried as Muslims.
They say the dead cannot talk – so they cannot testify they are not Muslims.
But the Dead can Vote!….
No use talking & expressing our anger here….
No use if this issue is confined inside DAP blog only – of course we all here will vote DAP.
All should go out & debate/discuss this news to your other friends of different political ideology – use this as a stepping stone, tell others – we have one choice, one solution – Vote DAP!!!
The US Dept of State is watching us closely on Religious Freedom annually.
Don’t believe? Visit these sites:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/90143.htm (Malaysia)
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/ (World)
Alaneth. Correction. Malaysia is not a Muslim country. Are you an UMNO member? Malaysia it is claimed is Muslim majority, and that too possibly with the arrivals of Indons and Filipinos.
But if you say the ARMED services are 90% Muslim you are right.