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Do Malaysian Muslims understand what ‘Allah’ means?

The Other Malaysia
by Farish A. Noor
25 December 2007

At the time of writing this, I am in Cairo in the company of my Egyptian friends who are Muslims, Catholics and Copts. Eid has passed and I attended several dinners and celebrations where Muslims and Copts celebrated together, visiting each others’ homes and ate til we could not eat any further. What is worse, Christmas is upon us and so once again Muslims, Catholics and Copts will be heading for the communal table for the communal feast and there will be much licking of chops, munching of bread, gobbling of sweet deserts and drinking for everyone. It is all simply too pleasant to belive, yet it is real and this is what life is like for many in Cairo, the ‘Mother of civilisation’ and home to more than twenty million Egyptians from all walks of life.

What is most striking to the outside observer like me – though rather banal for the Egyptians themselves – is the fact that in all these celebrations ranging from Eid for the Muslims to Christmas for the Catholics and Copts the word ‘Allah’ is used to denote that supreme and singular divinity, God. Catholics and Copts alike exclaim ‘Masha-allah’, ‘Wallahi’, ‘ya-Rabbi’, ‘Wallah-u allam’, and of course ‘Allahuakbar’ day in, day out, everywhere they go. The coptic taxi driver blares out ‘By Allah, cant you see where you are parking??” as he dodges the obstable ahead. The Catholic shopkeeper bemoans “Ya Allah, ya Allah! You can only offer me two pounds for the scarf? Wallahi, my mother would die if she heard that! Ya-Rabbi, ya-Rabbi!”

Yet in Malaysia at the moment yet another non-issue has been brewed to a scandal for no reason: The Malaysian Catholic Herald, a publication by and for Catholics in the country, has been told that it can no longer publish its Malaysian language edition if it continues to use the word “Allah” to mean God. Worse still, the country’s Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum recently stated that “Only Muslims can use the word Allah” ostensibly on the grounds that “Allah” is a Muslim word. The mind boggles at the confounding logic of such a non-argument, which speaks volumes about the individual’s own ignorance of Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself.

For a start, the word ‘Allah’ predates the revelation to the Prophet Muhammad and goes way back to the pre-Islamic era. Christians had been using the word long before there were any Muslims, in fact. Furthermore the word is Arabic, and is thus common to all the peoples, cultures and societies where Arabic – in all its dialects – is spoken, and is understood by millions of Arabic speakers to mean God, and little else. One could also add that as “Allah” is an Arabic word it therefore has more to do with the development and evolution of Arabic language and culture, and less to do with Islam. It is hard to understand how any religion can have a language to call its own, for languages emerge from a societal context and not a belief system. If one were to abide by the skewered logic of the Minister concerned, then presumably the language of Christianity (if it had one) would be Aramaic, or perhaps Latin.

The Minister’s remark not only demonstrated his shallow understanding of Muslim culture and the clear distinction between Arab culture and Muslim theology, but it also demonstrated his own lack of understanding of the history of the Malays, who, like many non-Arabs, only converted to Islam much later from the 13th century onwards. Among the earliest pieces of evidence to indicate Islam’s arrival to the Malay archipelago are the stone inscriptions found in Malay states like Pahang where the idea of God is described in the sanskrit words ‘Dewata Mulia Raya’. As no Malay spoke or even understood Arabic then, it was natural for the earliest Malay-Muslims to continue using the Sanskrit-inspired language they spoke then. Surely this does not make them lesser Muslims as a result?

The ruckus that has resulted thanks to the threat not to allow the publication of the Malaysian language edition of the Christian Herald therefore forces observers to ask the simple question: Why has this issue erupted all of a sudden, when the word Allah was used for so long with narry a protest in sight? At a time when the Malaysian government is already getting flak as a result of the protests by Malaysian Hindus who insist that they remain at the bottom of the economic ladder despite fifty years of independence, now it would appear as if the Malaysian government cannot get enough bad publicity.

The administration of Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi came to power on the promise that it would promote its own brand of moderate Islam that was pluralist and respectful of other cultures and religions. But time and again the Malaysian public – first Hindus and now Christians – have felt necessary to protest over what they regard as unfair, biased treatment and the furthering of an exclusive brand of Islam that is communitarian and divisive. The latest fiasco over the non-issue that is the name of God would suggest that Prime Minister’s Badawi’s grand vision of a moderate Islam has hit the rocks, and is now floundering. Just how the ministers and elite of this government is to regain their course is open to question, but what is clear is that some Ministers should get their basic knowledge of their own religion in order first.

157 Replies to “Do Malaysian Muslims understand what ‘Allah’ means?”

  1. A learned man talks sense. It is only the half past six that talk cock. That is the plight of the country where we are filled to the brim with half past six leaders and time and again they justify their existence by the count of votes and whatever half past six things they do or say are incidental and of no consequences to society or the country.

  2. ‘”Just how the ministers and elite of this government is to regain their course is open to question…”

    This is what happens when you have a weak man leading the pack as prime minister. Mahathir must bear full responsibility for putting him where he is today.

  3. Granted, TDM did put our current PM to be his successor. But, laying all the blame on one man is just a bit far fetched. As powerful as he was, he certainly didn’t give the ruling coalition, the 90% majority in parliament. It’s essentially this virtually uncontested power that makes things the way that they are now. So, ultimately, the ones to blame (if anyone is to be blamed at all) are us all, the electorate. But I do think that our current PM isn’t fully behind the reigns. That’s why the comedians are even allowed to work such gems.

  4. I have some Arab friends and they thought muslims are those who dress in the Arabic style. The way the Malay dress with the Sarong are not considered high class muslims. I am surprised to hear that. But of course we have our judgements.

  6. Farish, there’s something you should know, UMNO muslim has long converted to Islam Hadhari since Abdullah became Prime Minister. Hence certain Arabic words also became exclusive to this new version of Islam religion. It has been four years since the rise of Abdullah and his Islam Hadhari and what we saw was the worst of religious polarization in country, this tell you what Abullah and Islam Hadhari are all about, extremism.

  7. Farish Noor speaks the truth without any ill motive like the UMNOputras who has an agenda in everything they do; the truth is always straight forward and easy to understand.

    It’s true Malaysian ministers are half past six. Compare their qualifications with their counterparts in professionally run , high economic growth, first world rating per capita income without natural resources such as Singapore, you’d get a shock! (would someone post the difference in this blog if you happen to have it? I have seen it somewhere).

    REGRETTABLY, THE POLITIC IN MALAYSIA IS SUCH THE ‘UMNOPUTRAS’ HAD SHREWDLY SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY IN 1969 UNDER THE PRETEXT OF ‘EMERGENCY’ HAD ‘DIVIDED’ THE MALAYSIANS INTO BUMIPUTRAS AND NON-BUMIPUTRAS. GIVEN THE EARLIER WHICH CONSTITUTES 50% OF THE TOTAL POPULATION (AND THE GAP IS GETTING BIGGER EACH DAY BECAUSE THEY ARE FULLY AWARE ‘THEY JUST GIVE BIRTH, THE BN WILL PROVIDE EVERYTHING), THE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES (AND THESE LATER BECAME CRUTCHES, AND NOW WHEELCHAIR, AND SLOWLY ITS GOING TO BE ‘MOTORISED’), THEY COULD EASILY ‘GO IT ALONE TO RULE THE COUNTRY WITHOUT THE NON-BUMI’S SUPPORT’. THEIR KETUANAN IS FURTHER GUARANTEED WITH THE UNFAIR CHANGES AND ADDITION IN THE PARLIAMENTARY AND STATE CONSTITUENCIES!

    WHAT ARE THE RIGHT MINDED MALAYSIANS TO DO?

    WHILE SPEAKING OUT FOR THE UNFAIR PRACTICES FROM TIME TO TIME, TAKE EVERY ELECTION CHANCE TO EXPRESS YOUR DISAPPOINTMENT AND FRUSTRATION!

    ONE STEP AT A TIME; JUST VOTE ANY OPPOSITION IN THE COMING ELECTION IS THE RIGHT STEP TOWARDS THE CHANGE, HOWEVER SMALL IT MAY BE!

    ‘GOD WOULD GIVE A WAY WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE NO WAY’

  8. Dear Farish,
    Hi there. Thanks for the wonderful and yet academic and historical background on the usage of the word Allah. Your open-mindedness set you apart from many politicians in Malaysia today, who like the country’s Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum recently stated that “Only Muslims can use the word Allah” posses serious questions on whether they understand Islam from a religious point of view or from a fanatical Islamic point of view. Thanks for coming forward to explain the fundamental issues of using the word Allah.

    “Abdullah Badawi was born to a prominent religious family. His father, Ahmad Badawi, was a prominent religious figure…He received a Bachelor of Arts in Islamic Studies from the University of Malaya in 1964 ” ( Wikipedia ). I’m not sure of Johari’s background, but Abdullah, with his religious credentials, doesn’t have leadership qualities to educate Johari Baharum on issues as fundamental as we are facing now.

    I’m hoping that more Malays and Muslims will follow suit your qualities in taking time to explain and educate the ‘ religious fanatics’ in Malaysia who seem to be either sleeping or pretending to sleep.

    May Allah (God) bless Malaysia

  10. I went back to through the speeches of Badawi that while he implied moderatation with Islam Hadhari, it is more correct that he said ‘civilizational’ Islam. One civility is another barbarism. The concept of Islam Hadhari is appears is not moderation but rather material and of this world i.e., a focus on development.

    No the PM has an out if he chooses to be hypocritical and feudal. Not that the excuse is acceptable but technically, he did not break his promise, he just misled.

    That could be worst.

  12. Why the fuss. If they want Allah to be exclusively for Malays, so be it. No point arguing with the UMNO pirates because you have to lower down your insanity and status to even try to reason with them. It’s not worth the hassle.

  14. I am sure God is not overly concern over the name given to Him, be it God, Allah, Tuhan, etc.

    I am confident that God or Allah is more concern of the justice in the system and the fair treatment being accord to all citizens of the world, Malaysian no exception.

    So current ruling govn or any future govn, be fair in your treatment of the oppressed or the unfortunates less judgment be falled upon you…Let justice and truth prevail.

  17. Dear Farish,

    May be you shall enlighten those stupid minister that Arabic word appear on UMNO logo, Malaysia currency has anything to do with Islam while there is an effort to uphold Bahasa Malaysia as national language.

    It is also sad to see our next generation have to face the problem to communicate. BM word like ‘ berhubung ‘ bacame ‘ bercomunicasi ‘ ?

    Just wonder what is the purpose of the Arabic word on Malaysia note.

  20. “The mind boggles at the confounding logic of such a non-argument, which speaks volumes about the individual’s own ignorance of Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself.”

    – this is the quality of ministers BN/UMNO has and makes Malaysia a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. They just want to flex their muscles because they have been in power for far to bleddy long!

    Time to go for change, kick these morons out of office. Change in government is what we need!

  24. Prime Minister’s Badawi’s grand vision of a moderate Islam has hit the rocks, and is now floundering….”

    PM zzzzzzzz has been floundering from the day he assumed office. He is one of the dumbest PM this country has ever seen. He graduated in Islamic Studies which means he did not have the brains to try the difficult disciplines like medicine or engineering or IT or physics etc. Neither did he graduate with a First Class Honours.This doesn’t speak much about his grey matter.
    Ok, his deputy made an infantile and moronic ruling to ban the use of Herald. Being the Minister of Internal Security why can’t he overrule his deputy on that very day!
    I won’t blame his deputy. I blame the Minister who doubles up as Imam of Islam Hadhari.
    Or is his deputy trying to discredit his boss and force him into early retirement?

  26. Catholic weekly seeks court order to use ‘Allah’

    PETALING JAYA: The publisher of Herald – The Catholic Weekly has filed a writ of summons and statement of claim in the Kuala Lumpur High Court to seek appropriate declarations of the use of “Allah”.

    The weekly’s editor Reverend Father Lawrence Andrew said the writ and statement were filed on Dec 5.
    http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/28/courts/19871126&sec=courts

  27. Can we like copyright the word GOD so that the somnambulant guy cant use it also?

    So that ppl like Samy Vellu cant use the phrase “act of God” anymore.

    He will hv to use another word to replace God accordingly.

  28. Supposing Johari says that this has nothing to do with his not understanding Muslim culture, history and the fundamental tenets of Islam itself or not knowing that Allah is used by Arabic Christians and stated in (say) Indonesian bibles. Supposing he says further that it has nothing to do with promoting exclusive brand of Islam that is communitarian and divisive – but that it was just a practical approach to avoid confusion between two different religious groups having a different understanding of their Gods and that when it comes to important matters of faith, there should be no ambiguity and confusion.

    Won’t there be confusion if (say) in a church congregation conducted in Bahasa throughout, the statement “we go to the church on Sunday for prayers to God whilst muslims go to the mosques to pray to their God on Friday” could turn outas “kita orang Kristian pergi ke gereja pada hari Ahad untuk bersembangyang kepada Allah manakala orang Islam pergi ke majid pada hari Jumat untuk bersembayang kepada Allah”?
    Article 11(4) of the Constitution/Merdeka Social Contract prohibits propagation of any religious doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam – the object being to prevent Muslims from being influenced (read as from being even exposed to any form of proselytization based on other faiths) resulting in their possible converting out of their own faith, Islam. Would not this object be frustrated if a young and not so experienced Muslim chancing to hear discussions, sermons or teachings using the same expression Allah in Bahasa get influenced by such discussions, sermons or teachings that may result in his doubts of his own faith , contravening the spirit, if not letter, of article 11(4) of the Constitution in respect to which all Malaysians of whatever creed and religion pledge to uphold? How do you reply or respond to his point based on “practical aproach” argument to avoid confusion in the narrow context of our society ?

    .

    thenn

  29. As I can see it, the fuss surrounding the controversial use of the word ALLAH is actually the work of the half past six ministers to garner votes from the malays. They want to paint themseves to be holier than the rest. They try to outdo each other to make themselves look good in the eyes of the malays voters. All these half past six ministers in the UMNO putras interprete things according to their own version of seeing things. They called themselves moderate when the world sees them as fanatic. We cant reason with them rationally bcos they have their own ways of reasoning and seeing things. Just like the act of HISHAMUDDIN when he issued an ultimatum to koh tsu koon. The world sees the act as a threat but he denied it. Probably FARISH who we see as a moderate person might be considered a terrorist and a threat by the UMNOputras. We need ppl like FARISH to give the world a true version of ISLAM that dont oppressed , that dont robbed the rights of others and are not corrupt. I believe the the true version of ISLAM gives equal rights to everybody irrespective of race and religion . What is being practised by the UMNOputras is UNISLAMIC.

  30. Whether they claimed it right or over-claimed, UMNO always right.
    Since becoming OIC Chairman, Malaysia have been the center of financial transaction for many of their members and the latest world market on crude oil helps a lot in gaining extra cash flows.
    As human, we all must know that this world only build on monetary values. In Malaysia, having to involved in this mega ‘cash flow’ program have given a very much needed advantage for UMNO to behave what they like. That’s why that they can talk louder in BN too.
    Those land owners too owed UMNO a big favor in making their financial statement very healthy through their policies of wealth sharing.
    Monetary status have improves and many in the system including friends and relatives reap the fruits that grow abundance.
    Now, they just need to create some scenes that will definitely given them advantage in GE and these remarks are usually applied. All along, they have succeeded and the same in this coming GE.
    The reappointment of EC chairman says all.
    This guy cannot just walk away and this round is his pay back favor to UMNO.
    Don’t get mad, Malaysian as this country scandal are very much larger than all of us combined. Live you days to the fullest as you don’t control the flow of this country anymore.
    Your voices may be loud enough to be heard and not enough to change the route.
    Everyone above our system are involved and none can ever repent as they went too deep and can only go deeper.
    Pround that you still can wake up each day to enjoy some peaceful moments and value the time given.
    We are just passenger here in Malaysia.

  31. Saw this interesting comment on another thread By Earnest, I think):

    The Indonesian government presumably has presumably no problem with Christian publications in the Indonesian language, which use the term “Allah” today, not eons ago.

    Several years ago, a group of churches changed the word “Allah” to “Yahweh” throughout the whole Lembaga Alkitab Indonesia Bible, and had it printed. Recently the Lembaga Alkitab Indonesia took these churches to court (probably for copyright infringement), and won their case, and the Indonesian police then entered these churches and confiscated all those Bibles.

  33. It is good for Farish A. Noor who has traveled far and wide in the world, and is knowledgeable to share his experiences on the use of the word “Allah” with those still reveling blissfully like frogs under the coconut shells.

    Back here in Our Lady of Lourdes church which I attend, Sunday Mass is conducted in English from 7.30 to 8.30am; whereas it is conducted in Bahasa Malaysia for the Sabahans and Sarawakians from 12 to 1 pm, where the name of our God, “Allah” is used.

    The Chinese Mass is conducted solely in Chinese in another church in the vicinity. The name of our God in Chinese is the Chinese word for it, not even a onomatopoeia for God or Allah. It is pronounced entirely differently, so that if you do not know Chinese, you would never know that it is the name of God.

    Jeffrey’s views are so indefensibly defensive of Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari’s order to ban our Herald just because of the word “Allah” in the Bahasa version, which i subscribe to, as to be seen to be too localized, and not globalized. Or is he eyeing the post as his spokesman?

  34. A simple reason behind all this.

    The Malays have nothing to be called their own. From the language, culture, religion and folklores. Everything was borrowed from other civilisations far advanced than theirs, mixed and matched. Which is why, they have to create something that belongs to them, and exclusively just to them.

    However, they lack the ingenuity and intelligence, something biological that prevail no matter how hard they try to change. Even a simple thing like Allah also they can’t defend its exclusiveness for Malays, because they just do not know how to work to get things right. They can only randomly defend without concrete evidence.

    Just like the dispute with Singapore over the sovereignity of the few rocks south of Johor at ICJ. When they can’t defend a case, they use doctored evidence.

    Come on UMNO. Stop making us international jokes. We are not clowns like you.

  35. I am quite sure you all will agree the Minister is not stupid nor that he could not understand “Allah” is just a word which could mean whatever the author wanted it to mean..
    Thus we are not talking about rationality … I suppose .. some kind of a inpulse, an inborn response created from this sort of environment in Malaysia ?, not likely genetic
    Could it be “Inferiority Complex” ? Does this explain also the “waving of kris?”
    Just pray and hope, in his next generation, their children would be more confident and could play on the same level as the rest of the world.
    Till then, just learn to “endure”. I learn in life never to argue with a “drunk”
    Good Luck malaysia

  36. dear farish noor,

    you seem to be very ignorant in understanding your own religion Islam, shame on you, i as former christian disagree the usage of Allah in malay, make it simple oh you anti muslim yourself,i dare the learned christian scholars to use it in the English bible…if that the name used in pre Islam era.

  37. The obsession to claim the word “Allah” for their exclusive use despite its historical applications to describe the One God in many languages clearly reveals the insecurity and lack of confidence of certain people in their own religion in Malaysia.

    How else can you explain the deliberately blinkered view that only now chose to ignore what has been universally accepted for thousands of years. And who are these mere mortals who only has a fleeting moment on this earth to try to change and distort milleniums of historical facts for that few moments of political glory.

  39. Shanghainese (mostly non Muslim) use this “All..” very often when they speak in their dialect. It simply means ” I ” in their dialect. Why create an issue? let them copyright what they want lah!
    If this “copyright” is spread to the world, ppl will just hv a good laugh at Msia, Dia orang tu terlalu senang, mesti cari sikit isu, main main lah!

  40. Jeffery,

    practical reasons…will there be confusion? Maybe maybe not but to say it will means that we are saying that average Malaysian are not so clever. I do not think that the word Allah will create confusion. The word has been used in Sabah and Sarawak for a long time now and there has not been any issues. why now? why can it become confusing or only can be used in Islam when clearly the word is Arabic and used by other religions. Sabahans used a lot more of BM in their daily live than we in peninsular and denying them the right to use the language is against all the laws in the country.

    On the hand our ministers and deputies are all HP6. They know crap and it shows in the way they manage. These buggers are paranoid. But lets not whack the normal Malays. They are not as dumb or as paranoid or insecure like the politicians.

  41. As a young boy in a primary school in Johor, I learnt to sing the Johor state anthem, “Allah Peliharakan Sultan ….” At that time, I was naive of the religious terminology until someone highlighted to me that I am praying to a Muslim God. That confused me and I had to ask around. Later, I learnt to associate Allah with the term the Almighty God. Then I learnt from my father the British national anthem, “God Save the Queen”. That settled my mind and I began to sing the state anthem with gusto as I realised and believed it was my prayer to God for a just Sultan.

    It was in the mid-1980’s that I learnt that a certain ministry had banned the import of Bahasa Malaysia bibles because of a list of terms declared exclusively for Muslims, among them “Allah”. I was pretty upset then that we have “little napoleons”, who usurped the language in the name of religion.

    I recently attended a couple’s wedding service between a Catholic and a Buddhist. The priest , who presided the service in his sermon, whenever he used the term God qualified it with these words, “whosoever you perceive him to be”, keeping in mind those present who were of different faiths. He reminded that neither spouse should attempt to convert the other and that this marriage symbolizes the multi-cultural and multi-religious aspect of Malaysia.
    How aptly and beautifully said!

    Coming back to the issue at hand, I am shocked at the Johari’s declaration and would recommend that he be sent for re-education on religious sensitivity. I can’t wait to hear the court’s declaration on this issue.

  44. Guys,

    I am not a muslim, but if a muslim wants to use my God’s name for his prayers, go ahead. I would be very proud of it.

    What’s wrong with Badawi’s government? Why these guys are so shallow minded? Who is running the country now? Badawi seems to busy flying in his plane although the country is in the brink of deep chaos.

    Is the country on auto-pilot? Anyone can do anything they want!!!!!!!!

  45. ///….Jeffrey’s views are so indefensibly defensive of Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari’s order to ban our Herald just because of the word “Allah” in the Bahasa version, which i subscribe to, as to be seen to be too localized, and not globalized. Or is he eyeing the post as his spokesman?…../// – DAPHNE

    No, I’m not. I am happy enough being what I am. :)

    People like Deputy Internal Security Minister Johari Baharum and other UMNOputras have all the powers in every sense of the word and they cannot be easily evicted by the ballot box.

    If we want to oppose them for riding roughshod over our rights, on what resources can we draw on and to whom can we depend on to level the playing field of contest?

    The Courts? Ask R Subashini. Her minor victory in securing the judgment that syariah courts cannot dissolve a civil marriage is phyrric and cannot even compensate her for not being able to prevent her husband Saravanan from converting their eldest son, Dharvin Joshua, and contesting custody for the other child as well.

    The point is when dealing with UMNOputras with all the advantage of power, the only resources we can draw are moral righteousness of our cause and irrefutable logic of our approach. Hindraf may have the first but lacking the second how could it contest in longer term the draconian laws arrayed against its leaders?

    The same with Johari.

    There is no point in calling him or others like him names – morons or hypocrites.

    It does not advance our cause or undermine theirs.

    Tackle and pre-empt him where he comes from – ie. if he comes out with this approach to justify, how would you reply and demolish what he puts forth, and if he comes out with another angle, how to show that too has no foundation in moral, law or logic giving the other side absolutely no room to justify whatever they want to do.

    That’s the least we can do – with our limited resources.

    If we can’t even give a cogent response and reply if he raises a certain point grounded (say) on the ‘practical approach’ that I stated above – or if I were to raise it for him for discussion, the best we can do here is to say I covet for his job – where do we stand and what chance have we got to make them change their mind?

    Let’s look at realities. We cannot assume or afford to underestimate that the other side are fools.

    If they were, they would not be able to manipulate the system to stay 50 years in power notwithstanding the abuse thereof and the many shenanigans.

    So be careful : when dealing with a superior opponent our position must be built upon irrefutable moral imperatives and impregnable logical foundation as opposed to theirs. Otherwise we can’t even begin.

  46. Little Birds close to churches told Screenshots that OKT and FAK have been tasked to mediate and to persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw a lawsuit against Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi, in his capacity as the Internal Security Minister, and the Malaysian government.

    Last week, December 10, a Sabah church sued Abdullah and the government for banning the importation of Christian children books from Indonesia. [ SEE STATEMENT HERE ]

    Sabah Sidang Injil Borneo (SIB), or the evangelical church of Borneo, is the largest Christian denomination in the state.

    According to media reports, Sabah Sidang Injil Borneo Church’s lawyer Lim Heng Seng had submitted a certificate of urgency to the court to obtain the hearing today.

    However, when the case was brought up for mention at the Kuala Lumpur High Court in Jalan Duta today, it was postponed to January 15 next year.

    Senior federal counsel Azizah Nawawi, who is representing the government, requested for an adjournment on the ground that “several relevant parties are in the midst of discussion to resolve the issue”.

    The plaintiff’s lawyer did not object to the defendants’ application.

    http://www.jeffooi.com/2007/12/okt_and_fak_to_mediate_in_saba.php

  47. Why is the Catholic Weekly going to court? Why are they so obssesed in using “Allah” for GOD?
    In any lingo or religion “GOD” sounds great and it refers to the ALMIGHTY. A Rose by any other name is still a Rose. Let Johari and all the other pea-brained nuts in UMNO believe that Allah is only for them.

  48. Rocky, thanks for the comments. You and I, most in this blog and even average Malaysian may not in reality be confused, as you said. But is that the angle from which our friend Johari comes from? He is talking about Article 11(4) whether explicitly stated or not. He is referring to some (even though not all) of “protected” and the uninitiated amongst his constitutency or supporters. The fact that you said “maybe or maybe not” in relation to the possibility of confusion is already good enough for him (the may be part) knowing his agenda. :) The word Allah has been used in Sabah and Sarawak (I think even here in the Peninsula) for a long time now and there has not been any issues until now. Why now? That’s a good point. It is like encroaching on pre-existing right of ours but he’ll just say that when an anomaly of expression need to be rectified, then its better late than never! They’ll justify whatever they want to do to shore up their agenda of political support. Like the old saying goes the Devil himself may cite scripture for his own cause. To refute it, one must address the central and practical point how the use of Allah in Bahasa in our special multiracial/cultural/religious milieu cannot possibly confuse the most inexperienced and uninitiated muslim who happens to stumble onto this congregation and read or hear what has been said. How do we do that? :)

  49. It has been aptly said that the usage of the word ” Allah ” predates the Islamic era. But then again being the OIC
    Chairman, M’sia need to show the world something extra
    ordinary. Thus, there are many ” FIRST ” being churn out as
    often as you can imagine. I think the rots started in the early
    80s’ and for that both MM and AI have a lot to answer in view
    of their quest to Islamised the nation !

    Let’s hope that more true muslims out there would speak out
    and condemn such narrow mindedness especially from the current govt with too much power in hand. I would love to hear from our
    Raja Muda of Perak – Dr Nazrin, the mufti up north and even the
    evergreen blogger’s – RPK.

    If we think out of the box, it can also be that some people is
    out to undermine or even discredit PM’s, when we look at the timing of each event and it’s issue. Can some political experts
    out there enlighten us ?
    favor

  50. “The priest , who presided the service in his sermon, whenever he used the term God qualified it with these words, “whosoever you perceive him to be”, keeping in mind those present who were of different faiths.”

    Well said. Come on you Malay Muslims. Learn from other communities and open your mind. This is a globalised village, and indulging in protetionism will not do you any good. There are no such thing called sovereignity and pride if you can’t compete.

    Take old China dynasties for example. They think they were self-sufficient and the centre of the universe and thus closed their door for centuries. When they realised, the Westerns were already far more advanced and thus they lost battles after battles, losing Hong Kong and Macau for example (there are more than meet the eyes of course).

    The Malays experienced losing Malacca (the one they pride themselves so much) before due to their arrogant and uncivilised behaviour. Are you going to lose Malaysia again?

  51. Everyone has been tiredly reading, I have some fruit for thought.

    The High Court of KL might rule out that, The HERALD matter to do with “Allah” is under the jurisdiction of Syariah Court………….

    This couldn’t be ridiculous, if Malaysia have lack of oppositions to stand for the minority right. Islamization is for all Malaysian, not the Muslim only.

    Imagine, Catholic Church under the jurisdiction of Syariah Law……

    So, dear friends, if you still want Malaysia to have justice and freedom, the next GE vote for change.

  53. This is what we get when bird-brains govern the country. Instead of tackling the obvious problems in the society, these baboons create problems for their rakyat. In the next electtions, my vote is for u Mr Lim.

  54. Boneka Says:
    Why is the Catholic Weekly going to court? Why are they so obssesed in using “Allah” for GOD?
    Boneka, this is all about our rights. There is no obsession. If you dont go to court, tomorrow the government might ask you to change your name to “Asshole” as BONEKA is for their sole use.
    Will you fight for your right? Or will you be obsessed with BONEKA? or will you accept to be called Asshole.

  56. Ok. We know that the minister and government is technically wrong about the word. We also understand why Herald and others want to fight for the right to use the word even though its not often and until now, no one noticed.

    What does it all mean? It means each side look at the other side as insecure. But there is a difference. One side think it has some special right to be insecure while the other think not.

    In the end, its really about that special right that one side think its entitled to why the other side don’t. This is our curse.

  57. Hi everyone! Haven’t been here for many months. It’s nice to be back…

    UMNO = U Must Not Object. And it’s true that UMNO is trying to appear more Islamic than the Arabs and PAS especially. Just to win back Kelantan.

    We Catholics are not stooping down to UMNO’s level. We’ll fight the persecution thru proper means by praying and suing the govt (but I’m half expecting the judge to throw the case out of court)

    Kindly check out my friend Kenny’s blog http://www.darnmalaysia.com

  58. not all muslims don’t understand what is allah.

    In armforces uniform have allah on badges and the non muslim wear and and eat pork with it and touch the word allah on the badges.

    Please remove the tudung which is compulsory for non muslims ladies during parade in Police department. sickening sight.

  59. “Boneka, this is all about our rights. There is no obsession. If you dont go to court, tomorrow the government might ask you to change your name to “Asshole” as BONEKA is for their sole use.”

    Libra2, I like the way you answer Boneka.

    Boneka, hope you don’t mind being call Ass_ _ le ? Boneka by the name of Ass_ _le is still Boneka.

  60. Dont u see this is a smokescreen?

    The BN scums know very well that the next GE they will lose terribly. What better way than to consolidate the Malays.

    They can have Hindraf to raise racial tensions btw the Malays n Indians. Now they target the Christians. And once we question them rgd the use of the word Allah, even the opposition Malays esp PAS will come out strongly in support of the BN goons. End of the day, the corrupted gets away again with another GE victory and we be screwed for another 5 years.

  62. “The High Court of KL might rule out that, The HERALD matter to do with “Allah” is under the jurisdiction of Syariah Court………….” -vckc72

    The Syariah Courts have jurisdiction only over persons who are Muslims and Christians are strictly excluded. But here one never knows.

    I heard that some of our states have laws (religious enactments) that prohibit the use of Malay-language religious terms such as usage of the term “Allah” for God by Christians, but (until Johari’s latest controversy) are not widely known, as the authorities did not enforce them actively. If they do, then the issue of article 121(1)A of the Constitution may be raised.

  63. If the word “Allah” is exclusive to Islam, isn’t it wonderful that other religions acknowledge “Allah” in their holy books or publications? If they are serious, Johari, together with his stupid boss, must have their heads checked by a shrink to cure their inferiority complex. But somehow I agree with Joetan that this is a clumsy strategy of fishing for Malay votes in the next General Election. I sincerely hope it backfires.

  64. I do not think that our minister truly believe that the use of “Allah” in the bible would confuse the Muslims. The reason for imposing the ban is more likely due to other needs like: a) Diverting attention away from the Hindraf related issues. b) The use of ISA on the five Hindraf leaders.

    Remember…. politicians are a cunning breed of humans. It is better to be criticized for being ignorant than being condemned for the actions taken against the Hindraf group.

  65. Since Malaysia was declared an “Islamic state/nation” by the last PM, the screws have been turning against all other religions especially wrt to the conversions into the Muslim religion to escape the secular courts and even resulting to body-snatching cases for burial.

    Regarding the discussions to avoid going to court, it reminded me of the film “The Mission” (made 1980s) about how religious leaders just did not do anything to prevent the massacre of the natives in S America so that their positions would not be affected.

    http://malaysiawatch3.blogspot.com/2007/12/religious-persecution-in-malaysia.html

  67. YB, take note that with each impending general election
    a controvesy will appear, related to usage of ” Allah ” ?
    The last round according to (cnsnews.com of April 17,
    2003) were issued related to the Iban’s bible on the use
    of word as such.

    Later on from the same source and on May 01, 2003, the
    acting PM (current PM) said that it be allowed for the Iban’s
    bible to print the word ” Allah ” instead. I personally sense
    something not right ? Are they trying to use it as a
    bargaining tool or trade-off with consent later to get votes
    from the Christian community ?

    With over 850,000 people of Catholic faith, I think it is a
    political ploy. These thick face politicians will soon turn
    around and offers a compromise fishing for votes in return
    or may use it to prop up younger generation Malays
    sentiment over the lost of this exclusive word in their lingo
    and shows that UMNO is protecting what umnoputras
    wanted and also BM.

    It is not an issue over just a word but rather the rights
    accorded to a citizen of this land. Trust all bloggers out
    there would have had known by now who to vote for ?

  68. “The Syariah Courts have jurisdiction only over persons who are Muslims and Christians are strictly excluded. But here one never knows.” Jeffrey

    Because here, the jurisdiction of our civil courts is being whittled down – a process the acceleration of which has to be haltered or else it will lead to the final disintegration of the Malaysian community as we know it. The war of attrition between secularists who believe in the supremacy of our civil courts over matters relating to their constitutional rights, and religious ideologists and ideologues who believe that Islam has a special place in the life of this nation, that everything Muslim must take precedence even calling for the surrendering of the constitutional and human rights of non-Muslims.

    It is time Parliament ends its abdication of the role given to it by the Constitution, abandon its interpretative approach to Article 121(1A) of our Constitution and adopt instead a ‘common sense’ approach which requires that all Articles of our Constitution be interpreted to protect the rights of all citizens.

  70. If one were to abide by the skewered logic of the Minister concerned, then presumably the language of Christianity (if it had one) would be Aramaic, or perhaps Latin. — Farish A. Noor

    skewer – verb [with obj.] fasten together or pierce with a pin or skewer: [as adj.] (skewered) skewered meat and fish. (Example: “Skewer the meat for the BBQ”)

    skew — [with obj.] make biased or distorted in a way that is
    regarded as inaccurate, unfair, or misleading: the curriculum is skewed towards the practical subjects.

    skewed logic rather than skewered logic ?

    Farish got to be a connoisseur of good foods; may still be savoring good foods while writing.

    Jokes aside, Farish’s article is really good food for thought, a must read for Deputy Minister of Internal Security Johari. Maybe Zam should forward it as email to him.

  72. Dear Farish

    I like to read your writes. You write with sense and responsibility. Now, the word ‘Allah’ has become another controversy in my beloved country called Malaysia, where three quarter of the ruling population in the BN coalition comprised of ‘impotent’ VIPs who is in the habits of making themselves look small every time they say or do something. Its indeed strange, how this one word is being protected to such an extent where the non-muslims are not allowed to use it, be it verbally or in printed forms. Do they ever realise, that day by day, the element of fanaticism is engulfing our society? By this kind of act, they are defying the whole concept of God by saying that ALLAH is not GOD, ALLAH is ALLAH and GOD is GOD, whereas we the non-Muslims do not make much fuss over this differences in sound and spelling. We understand the concept of GOD or ALLAH is not going to change by play of words. I know they are many liberal Muslims who understands this, but sadly they do not make up the ruling ‘gangs’.

    Proton Iswara – The word ‘iswara’ was believed to be the name of a butterfly ‘Papilio iswara’, but anyone ever thought where does this word ‘iswara’ came from? It is a sanskrit word, meaning the highest singular divinity we all call GOD in English. Please do not divide the community by this kind of stupid play of words. Please make the people realise that by whatever names one may call HIM, HE still remains the same principle ever. PLEASE BE LIBERAL. GOD BLESS

  74. If the word “Allah” is so sacred as claimed, then don’t blare Muslim prayers through the loud speakers on top of mosque. This way they are transmitting it to non-Muslims who are not halal and who are not entitled to even hear the word “Allah”.

  79. Then there is the standard clause in all commercial contracts which refers to the “act of God” hoping to escape liability – blaming God rather than men.

    Which God should we refer to??

    Should such contracts now be rephrased to give reverence to the God of all Muslims i.e. Allah? What if the aggrieved party, a non-Muslim, claims that it is not his God and the defendant is therefore liable?

  81. If only Muslims can use the word “Allah” as recently stated by another low-IQ and silly BN-related Deputy Inernal Security Minister, then only Christians can use the word “God”.

    Hence, Muslims cannot use “Oh my God!” when they are feeling excitedor sad, or experiencing climax while making love….. Perhaps, somebody should patent this word “God” to prevent any Muslim from using it to say: “Oh my God! I am coming…”; “Oh my God! I am late for work…”; “Oh my God! I have forgotten to wear my underwear…”; etc.

    I wonder why the Muslim people from the Arabic-speaking countries have never claimed ownership of the word
    “Allah”? Perhaps, the Malaysian government under the current premiership of AAB should offically annouce to the whole world that the word “Allah” can only be used by Muslims in Malaysia. Better still, install signboards and billboards that read “ONLY MUSLIMS ARE ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD “ALLAH” IN MALAYSIA” in all entry points, such as KLIA, to warn non-Muslim visitors to Malaysia.

    Malaysia really Boleh!!!

  82. My questions to all non-muslim Malaysians,

    1) Do we want BN-led govn to continue robbing our rights and privileges in matter concerning our daily activities? If no, time to vote for a change.

    2) Do we want UMNO-led govn to force the Islamic values (eg. tudung wearing for the ladies) and implement Syariah Law(eg. Subashini case) on our day to day and daily affairs? If no, it is time to vote for a change.

    There is no true freedom for the rakyat in govn led by muslim majority UMNO leaders.

  83. In malay folk-lore we find Vishnu, the preserver, Brahma the creator, Betara Guru (Kala) and S’ri all invoked in Malays, especially by Malay magicians (Pawang and Bomoh). Of all the greater deities of the Hindu system, Betara Guru is unquestionably the greatest. In Hikayat Sang Sembah, the tales of Sang Sembah, Betara Guru appears as a supreme god with Brahma and Vishnu and some subordinate deities. It is Betara Guru who alone has the “water of life”, the elixir of life, which can restore life to dead humans and animals. To the Malay of old, then, and to the Malay bomohs even of the present day in whom are preserved these notions, “Tok Betara Guru” or any one of the corruptions which his name now bears, was all-powerful god who held the place of Allah before the adveent of Islam, and was a spirit so powerful that he could restore the dead to life. All prayers were addressed to him.

    Muslim religious teachers in Malaysia today still preach the Islamic concept of heaven in a terminology which is neither Malay nor Arabic, but Hindu. The sanskrit word “Syurga” is always used in connection with the Islamic concept of paradise. The proper Arabic word for this is actually “Al-Jannah”. In the same way, the Hindu religious term “neraka” or hell is used by Muslim Malays to explain the Islamic concept of hell. The Arabic word for hell is “Al-Nar” or the place of fire. Then the Muslim fast, the annual religious abstention from food and drink, is known by the Sanskrit term “puasa”. A Muslim religious teacher is often called “guru”, another Hindu religious term, in fact the name of a Hindu deity, Betara Guru. The Muslim prayer is among the Malays, called “sembahyang”. “Sembah” in Sanskrit means to pray, and “yang” is a Sanskrit term meaning divinity or conjuring respect, as in “Sang Yang Tunggal”, the most divine one, and “Yang Dipertuan”.

    The Home Minister should take concerted efforts to remove this pollution in Islam which is leading the muslims astray into hinduism. All those sanskrit words should be done away with.

  85. “Catholics and Copts alike exclaim ‘Masha-allah’, ‘Wallahi’, ‘ya-Rabbi’, ‘Wallah-u allam’, and of course ‘Allahuakbar’ day in, day out, everywhere they go. The coptic taxi driver blares out ‘By Allah, cant you see where you are parking??” as he dodges the obstable ahead. The Catholic shopkeeper bemoans “Ya Allah, ya Allah! You can only offer me two pounds for the scarf? Wallahi, my mother would die if she heard that! Ya-Rabbi, ya-Rabbi!” Farish A Nor

    You see, BNseedell, many Malays ignorant of the Arabic language and Arab culture, have not gone anywhere or exposed to outside influences, would be surprised to know that words like “Masha-allah” “Wallah-u allam” and “Allahuakbar” have nothing to do with Islam.

  89. “The Christian usage of the word ‘Allah’ predates Islam. ‘Allah’ is the name of God in the old Arabic Bible as well as in the modern Arabic Bible used by Christians in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei and other places in Asia [and] Africa, where the languages that are in contact with Arabic have been using the word ‘Allah’ to refer to God,” he said.

    “In Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia, the word ‘Allah’ has been used continuously in the printed edition of Matthew’s Gospel in Malay in 1629, in the first complete Malay Bible in 1733 and in the second complete Malay Bible in 1879 until today in Perjanjian Baru and Alkitab,” he added.
    http://d.hatena.ne.jp/itunalily2/20071229

  90. jeffrey,

    I think the best way to handle this currently is to take them to the court which has been done. let the outcome of the case determine whether is was wrong or right.My only concern if the judiciary will rule fairly..as long as it is fair, we should respect the decision. at the courts, one can use Farish’s arguments. this is best we can do with limited resources as you said.

    But the christians especially in Sabah and Sarawak whom a majority are bumiputras should vote wisely in next GE.Make a stand. The christian bumiputras should not allow themselves to be 2nd or 3rd class bumis and should not allow some HP6 MP/minister to say you don’t like this, leave the country.

    Guys calling names will not settle it. As jeffery said best to defend your views with good logic.

    Happy new year all!!!

  91. “I was never a student of Malay literature, but the influence of Hinduism in Malay folk-lore is undeniable. What is worse is that most Malays confused animism, Hinduism with Islam.” – undergrad2

    I understand, though have not sought more concrete evidence, that ‘mandi safar’ which Muslim Malays (probably more in the southern states of Malacca & Johore) have roots in Hinduism.

  93. I was away but was jolted into reading the newspapers when I saw “Landmark court rulings” on The Sun front page. When I turned to the 3rd page, there I read it: “Only Muslims can use ‘Allah.’ It is a Muslim word. It’s from the Arabic language.” (Johari Baharom The Sun 28th Dec 2007.)

    If the ruling of the word “Allah” is based on that sentence, what hope do the Christians have? The statement is completely unlearned (rude word: idiotic). Upon returning to my home, I saw Farish Noor had said it. How could a Deputy Home Minister, who is completely ignorant on a particular subject, be made a judge on the same?

    Incidentally while I was away, I watched an Arabic Movie – a special movie. To make to story short, Johari, it was a Arabic Christian movie. I heard distinctively the Arabs praising Allah. The whole content of the movie could be disturbing in our plural society but there were these Arab Christians praising Allah as Allah, and no other name!

    How would an Arab Christian call Allah? Answer this question Johari. There are at least 20 Arab Churches in the US. There are Arabic churches in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq. What word would you “allow” for these Arab to use as a substitute of ‘Allah’? Johari, I don’t know how old you are, but you are a real joke.

    Sometimes I wonder why Christian thinkers like Dr Ng Kum Weng, Daniel Ho etc are silent at the moment. Now I know why. How to pit them against Johari’s nonsensical point of argument?

  94. This is something interesting to share with Malaysians:

    TEXT OF ‘PHONE CALL’ Published regarding the assassination of Benazir Bhutto ….
    Saturday, 29 December, 2007

    ISLAMABAD: Here is a translation of the transcript of the alleged telephone conversation yesterday from senior Al Qaeda leader Baitullah Mehsud to another militant that the Pakistan interior ministry said had been intercepted after the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

    The ministry said it had been translated from Pashto to Urdu.

    This is a translation from the ministry’s Urdu to English.
    Maulvi Sahib (MS): Asalaam Aleikum (Peace be with you)
    Baitullah Mehsud (BM): Waleikum Asalam (And also with you)

    MS: Chief, how are you?
    BM: I am fine.
    MS: Congratulations, I just got back during the night.
    BM: Congratulations to you, were they our men?
    MS: Yes they were ours.
    BM: Who were they?
    MS: There was Saeed, there was Bilal from Badar and Ikramullah.
    BM: The three of them did it?
    MS: Ikramullah and Bilal did it.
    BM: Then congratulations.
    MS: Where are you? I want to meet you.
    BM: I am at Makeen (town in South Waziristan tribal region), come over, I am at Anwar Shah’s house.
    MS: OK, I’ll come.
    BM: Don’t inform their house for the time being.
    MS: OK.
    BM: It was a tremendous effort. They were really brave boys who killed her.
    MS: Mashallah (Thank God). When I come I will give you all the details.
    BM: I will wait for you. Congratulations, once again congratulations.
    MS: Congratulations to you.
    BM: Anything I can do for you?
    MS: Thank you very much.
    BM: Asalaam Aleikum.
    MS: Waaleikum Asalaam.
    = AFP =

    Remark:
    How do you feel after reading the above transcript being translated to English? When MS said “Mashallah (Thank God)” we don’t know which God he was referring to??

  95. I think the Government should send all of its ministers back to primary schools, because some of them are really imbercile., For God sake Allah is an arabic word and there are millions of Arabs in this world who are Christians., Is the Government not ashamed that they have morons of ministers running the country. May Allah bless Govrnment of Malaysia Morons with bliss and intellectual minds at the very least.

  96. Should not the Hindu Sangam, not the Samy Velu mob, copy right the word “Bumi Putra” and insist only Indians can use the word as it is an Indian word ….minas the n.

    Give these Malays the same treatment.

  97. On the other hand, the Church needs to do some serious thinking:

    In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, “South Arabia’s stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations.” Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god’s name “Sin” is a part of such Arabic words as “Sinai,” the “wilderness of Sin,” etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods.
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

  98. Just as David Beckham made the word ‘metatarsal’ become known to most football fans, and just as Mahathir gave most Malaysians an opportunity to learn the new word ‘recalcitrant’, now this Hisahammuddin has just taught many of us another word – ‘antediluvian’ – meaning old, outmoded, primitive, antiquated.

    Thanks to AAB, the ‘learn a word a day’ is “somnambulism” meaning “sleepwalking”

    Thanks to Johari Baharom, now the plain old exclamation ‘alamak’ is given a new twist by some posters above. And may we hope that ‘certain’ patrons in a restaurant upon looking at the word ‘ala carte’ in the menu do not interprete it to mean ‘Oh God, what prices!!’

  100. Morons for ministers? Geez most of them look like thugs, crooks and gangsters. They run the mafias through the police force and they control the ACA and AG and the Judiciary.

    No hope for malaysia! Even CJ was outvoted!

  101. I don’t know the real motif of banning Christians/Catholics to use Allah in Malaysia (is tantamount to West Malaysia in UMNO bigot’s mind!) by UMNO bigots.

    1. “Allah” was used by Christians in Sabah and Sarawak long before Malaysia was formed.

    2. “Allah” is word borrowed from Arabic language. Why Malay version Quran is not using Tuhan or Hyang instead of “Allah”. Some Malays think Allah is exclusively for Islam is merely a side effect of long-term brainwashing by UMNO ulamaks.

    3. If Allah is only God exclusively for Islam, meaning non-muslims shall have another God called Tuhan or Patung, may be a fake one as some Taliban-like Muslims believe.

    My guess is UMNO is trying to manipulate religion issue in uniting Malays under their banner before 12nd General Election.

  102. “What word would you “allow” for these Arab to use as a substitute of ‘Allah’? Johari, I don’t know how old you are, but you are a real joke.”

    Somebody please check his academic credentials, background etc.

    I put the entire blame on the ‘chief cleric’ Abdullah Badawi for not issuing any ‘fatwa’ for his boys to follow. He alone more than anybody else, is responsible for the mess the country is in.

    It is not a case of poor leadership or a failed leadership but no leadership at all. When is he going to realize that he is not chief secretary to the government?

  104. Dear Readers.

    I refer to remarks on the word “Allah”. Malaysiatoday claimed that Malays are confused due to brainwashing by UMNO ulamak. I am not so sure about the allegation on brainwashing. Confused, maybe yes on understanding of Islam but as far as I know, no ulamak in UMNO stood that low.

    Some segment of Malaysians are confused with race and religion. Malay, Chinese, Arabs , Indians are races. Islam, Christianity, etc are religions. As an example, several years ago, Malaysians often came across Arqam followers in flowing robe, green in colour.

    They claimed to dress like Prophet Muhammad. Muslims are reminded in the Kuran that Prophet Muhammad is the best example for human to follow. But what these Arqam failed to realize that Prophet Muhammad was also an Arab. What he wore was an Arab dress, typical of 6th century .

    If Prophet Muhammad dressed like an Arab , that was because he was an Arab. Cultural inclination is evident here. There is no such thing as a fixed Islamic dress. A Baju Melayu worn by Malay males during Hari Raya is as Islamic as a three piece suit by their Western counterparts in temperate climate. Islam allows cultural variety so long it complies with religious requirement.

    My point is that race can sometimes be confused with religion. The above incidents shows how shallow the understanding of Islam by Arqam followers. What Muslims are urged to follow is not the dressing of Prophet Muhammad, but rather his character such as honesty, humility, mercy, wisdom, care for his subjects and high regards for women.

    I myself would not take someone who dressed like that of Arqam followers as my employee.

    As for Johari’s remark, I do not think he or UMNO tries to manipulate religion to win the election. Without that remarks, UMNO’s supremacy in Malaysian politics is unchallenged, at least in these few years to come. What the remarks implies is that he, like other mere mortals, can also make mistake. But certainly not to manipulate religion.

    I am sure people of other communities also sometimes show how shallow the understanding on Malays by saying “Masuk Islam means masuk Melayu”. This is not a blame game situation. it just shows lack of understanding.

  106. Shamshul,

    How do you explain the banning of religious material imported by the church, and the refusal of a printing permit because the church refuses to stop its use of bahasa Malaysia?

    Article 11 (3) protects the rights of non-Muslims.

    Is there not an abuse of discretion under the Printing Presses and Publications Act?

  107. Frankly speaking, majority of Christians if not all will surely be voting for the opposition. If BN wants any hope in the next GE, they better pray that their religion play-acting will make them stand united and play to their tune and vote them back in for another 5 yrs of corruption. For I know, we dont condone corruption nor corrupted people. I dunno abt you?

  109. UMNO scare tactics are repetitive simple, internally they are creating religious threat against Islam (like the Allah wording incident) to warn Malay folks that Islam is in danger or insulted by non-Muslims.

    Many of us should still remembered Tengku Razaki’s cross in his headgear gifted by Pairin was manipulated by UMNO to incite hatred and fear against Christians.

    Externally they will threaten Chinese with another 513 bloodshed.

    This is a fail-proof formula to win elections in Malaysia used by UMNO for last 50 years.

  110. “UMNO scare tactics are repetitive simple, internally they are creating religious threat against Islam (like the Allah wording incident) to warn Malay folks that Islam is in danger or insulted by non-Muslims.”

    We call that beating the drums of a narrow form of Malay nationalism – and Islamo facism.

  112. Najib has the nerve to warn ‘trouble-makers’ of dire consequences for those out to create chaos and instability. He’s beginning to speak like his boss PM Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. He doesn’t realise that those “trouble-makers” are the gobloks and baboons within UMNO – Johari Baharum, KJ the protected SIL, Hishammuddin Hussein Onn, Nazri Aziz and Zainuddin Maidin.

    If Najib is able to control his bunch of gobloks and baboons, curb their nonsensical behavior, there’ll be peace in Malaysia but he and his boss don’t seem to do that rather, they condone their despicable actions.

    What has “Allah” and “God” to do with Malaysia or UMNO for that matter? Do they have the copyright of usage?

  113. Better still if they apply for international copyright on the use of the word “Allah”, then no other country in the world, including the nation of origin of Islam will be allowed to use this copyrighted word!

  114. ///Some segment of Malaysians are confused with race and religion. Malay, Chinese, Arabs , Indians are races.///— Shamsul Anuar.

    Yes, Malay is conditional on religion whereas the others can be seperated from religion.

  116. For some, it looks like it is such an astonishment being a Muslim. Empty vessels and new-comers to the religion make the most noise. Just how long have they been Muslims? Probably a couple of centuries in this archipelago. They are still jumping around. So, pardon them for doing so. In the first place, is Allah a Muslim? If he is a Muslim, then they have confined him for being only a Muslim and can God the almighty be confined within such walls of narrow ideologies?

    I don’t believe in such crap!!!

  117. Hey you all!!! Don’t forget the other issue.

    That ole Jo is “GOD”, that is HE controls everyone who needs a permit to broadcast, print and publish. What HE says go. HE is the chief censor and bully.

    So the mass media has to kowtow to him, worship him or else they close shop. They have to toe the line and be good obedient boys. Thats “Cemerlang, Terbilang and Gemilang” for you. “Freedom” is for him to decide.

  120. Dear Loh.

    Many thanks for your remarks. Perhaps you still miss my point. My point is actually quite simple. Many of us are confused with religion and race, cultures.

    Religion transcends political, cultural boundaries. Malay or any other races like Chinese, Arabs, Turkish tribe are not exclusive custodians of Islam just like Europeans are not the sole custodian of Christianity.

    Johari made the mistake here. But certainly he is not trying to manipulate religion here. It just shows that he, being a mortal man, also make mistake just like you. You( and everybody else) can criticize him for his remarks or his point but do spare the insult on Malays or Islam or UMNO.

    As Mr DJ said ” Empty vessel or newcomers to Islam…” Now there is no need for such remarks. Why ridicule a race for a mistake made by one man. Exactly this is the attitude that can be termed hostile. You expect people to have high regards on you but you are also hostile to them.

    As for Malaysiatoday, it is up to you to accept reality. The very main reason why BN continue to maintain supremacy in Malaysian politics is actually quite simple. No opposition parties are able to emulate its tried and tested formula of political sharing.

    BN continue to win due to vast majority( not necessarilry reflected here) of malaysians see it as the only coalition able to represent whole segments of Malaysia. To the Malays it is pointless to expect DAP to represent them when the party’s view often clashes with that of their interests. Hindraf was the latest proof. Instead of criticizing Hindraf for being extreme in its action, DAP seems to support a movement who has no qualm in depicting Malay, Islam in worst possible manner.

    As for Chinese, they are not comfortable with PAS. Ask DAP. Its dalliance with PAS proved to be a disaster.

    That does not mean I am denying existence of support for these 2 parties. What I am trying to say that overly simplistic view( aimed to discredit only) by remarks from people like Darkhorse shows denial of reality.

  121. DID ROBERT LAU DO ANYTHING?
    BN PUNISH YOU FIRST BY DOING NOTHING WRONG, AND THEN WE HAVE TO THANK THEM FOR NOT PUNISHING US?? WHAT KIND OF WORLD IS THIS?

    “We thank (Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department) Tan Sri Bernard Dompok for his assistance, as well as the various news agencies and other media groups for supporting us with their wide coverage,” Father Lawrence said in a statement.

    The paper has a circulation of 12,000 among the Catholic community.

    When contacted, Dompok said he had brought the matter to Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi a few days before Christmas and Abdullah had promised to look into it.

  123. shamshul anuar,

    I do not deny DAP and PAS cannot sleep on a same bed from day one.

    Under the current political reality with the majority of Chinese and Indian are unhappy with BN, UMNO’s best strategy is to play racial and religion sentiment to make sure at least 70% Malay voters are voting them.

    UMNO can play out Allah issue while MCA can play islamic state issue to negate the non-Malay support for opposition.

    BN can win 2/3 is due to voting system favours the winner and Malay/bumi constituencies. Let’s recall 1999 GE, BN only got 54% while opposition got 46% number of votes, but this proportion of vote did not show up in parliament seats.

    As long as 70% Malays are voting for UMNO, UMNO will win at least 50% parliament seats and stay as a dominant force.

    UMNO is clever enough to know that Indian and Chinese are no longer to vote BN like in 1999 GE. Sacrifiling MCA and MIC for UMNO own survival is only choice for UMNO, and the best weopan is to incite religious sentiment amongst Malays.

    You can go back to kampung surau and tell your Malay folks that chiristians are insulting islam by calling their God also as Allah. I am confident to say 99% of kampung malays in West Malaysia will buy-in your talk without a second thought.

  124. ///The very main reason why BN continue to maintain supremacy in Malaysian politics is actually quite simple. No opposition parties are able to emulate its tried and tested formula of political sharing. ///– Shamshul Anuar

    Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Let me advance my observations.

    The way parliamentary constituencies have been set up ensures that Malays with a slight majority in population was able to obtain proportionately more seats. So long as Malays are satisfied with government policies, the government of the day will continue to be in power.

    The ways the government ensured that Malays vote for them were actually quite simple. Firstly, the government overplayed Article 153, for example, only Malays were recruited as FELDA settlers, and over a million acres of land were developed using public funds into plantations for them, before May 13. Secondly, Malays were brainwashed to believe that UMNO is their savior, and without the party, it has no place under the Malaysian sun. To substantiate the warrior actions, the Malays are made to see that government actions are biased against non-Malays for their benefit. That created their entitlement mindset, and they rationalized it to be that the ‘privilege’ was bestowed because their forefathers came to Malaya earlier than the non-Malays, never mind that Orang Asli were the real indigenous people of this land. If that was not enough, it was then the religion which has given Malays the extra right, simply because the religion Islam is the official religion of the land. And now the powers-that-be even claims that this is an Islamic state though the founder prime minister clearly stated that Malaysia was secular.

    The May 13 had many reasons assigned to it, but what was not true is it was a spontaneous display of hatred by the Malays against n0n-Malays because of economic disparity. The government whitewashed the incidents and set the perpetrators free, rather than brought them to justice. Hence the government created NEP, and used of distorted statistics to justify its actions. This is confirmed by the fact that until a year after the PM and DPM promised to reveal the way the most important statistics, the so-called 30% target was compiled, nothing has come out of it. The most telling confirmation was the statement by the most quoted son-in-law that even if 30% had been achieved, they would just move the target, and NEP would still fall short of the target!

    Non-Malays were made to believe that May 13 had everything to do with the success at the GE in 1969 by the opposition parties. So they chose not to rock the boat in subsequent elections. That was the reason why even in the last UMNO GE, May 13 was used as a threat. In the process two million non-Malays satisfied Tun Razak foresight to be ‘good riddance’.

    So BN continues to rule. It’s so simple. Since it is so simple to remain in power, why can’t they do what they like, such as giving contracts to their friend and cronies, giving the positions in the judiciary to the people who would look after their interest, giving power to the person who would listen to the wishes of the boss to get inconvenient politicians out of the way.

    The non-Malays do not believe that the powers-that-be is interested to create a nation where the people have shared destiny, never mind what TDM cooked out his 9 challenges. Non-Malays are clear that BN is employing the boiling frog technique, and they will either be dead which they would not have any feeling after death, anyway, or they just leave when they are ready like the two million before them. The subsidiaries of UMNO who are sharing power with UMNOputras for wealth creation can also leave with fat bank accounts when the time comes. Yes, BN works on power sharing, but not for the community, but for themselves.

    The countries which were way behind us are catching up with us every fast. We have disabled all the institutions that ensure rule of law in this country and replaced them with a system that employs rule by law. Our comparative advantage in institutions competence until the 1960s has been lost, and do we have to wonder why our per capita income is only about 1/4 that of Singapore which had no natural resources at all?

    The BN government needs to be thrown out. Let PAS lead the next government. Let BNputras feel that politics is not the short cut to wealth and power, but to serve. Give BN a change to weed out the opportunists, and let them get elected based on track records rather than on the use of racial mix in electoral constituencies and racial politics.

  125. “It just shows that he, being a mortal man, also make mistake just like you.” Shamshul

    When a man makes mistakes, his flawed character comes at no cost to the nation but himself. But when a politician who is the people’s representative makes a mistake the entire nation has to pay for it. We’re paying for his mistake in more than one sense.

  126. Shamshul,

    Before the police corruption issue, before the hindraf issue and certainly before the “Allah” issue many of the pragmatists among us looked upon the opposition winning in more seats with guarded but raised optimism. Now talk of a visible swing to the opposition is punctuated by expressions of regret that things could be better.

    Once again issues of race and religion provide safe harbor for UMNO.

    Issues like corruption is forced to the back burner, to be looked again later and controlled as members of one family, of one ethnic group, the patriarch disciplining and exacting punishments upon the less favored, rather than members of one nation looking at issues like corruption as a national malaise the effects of which have long threatened to destroy the entire fabric our society.

    Like many here, I’d like to see the wheels of change set in motion. The same wheels are now stalled because Malays are fast losing their sense of security. Agents of change have been thrown into disarray and a formula has yet to be found on how best to regroup. I’m afraid it will never be found – certainly not in time to reset the nation’s pulse.

  127. “You can go back to kampung surau and tell your Malay folks that chiristians are insulting islam by calling their God also as Allah. I am confident to say 99% of kampung malays in West Malaysia will buy-in your talk without a second thought.” malaysiatoday.com

    So you’re resigned to the fact that UMNO’s communal politics will always win the day?

    The hope of the future generation is that one day Malaysians will be convinced that the good of the country requires that they cease to act as Malays, Chinese and Indians.

    The political opposition is not much better because although membership in the DAP is not limited to one race, it is seen as a Chinese party. The same applies to PKR. Is it not time for the two to merge instead of contesting the election as members of a coalition. What sets UMNO and BN apart from the opposition is that they play the politics of race openly and unashamedly; but with the opposition it says it is not. But isn’t the taste of the pudding is in the eating?

  128. Herald gets good news

    By ELIZABETH LOOI, The Star, 30 Dec 2007

    PETALING JAYA: The publisher of Herald – The Catholic Weekly newspaper, which reports on the Catholic community in English, Bahasa Malaysia, Tamil and Chinese, has had its permit renewed.

    The editor, Reverend Father Lawrence Andrew, said a representative from the Internal Security Ministry delivered the letter of approval, dated Dec 28, by hand at 10am Sunday.

    “We thank (Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department) Tan Sri Bernard Dompok for his assistance, as well as the various news agencies and other media groups for supporting us with their wide coverage,” Father Lawrence said in a statement.

    The paper has a circulation of 12,000 among the Catholic community.

    When contacted, Dompok said he had brought the matter to Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi a few days before Christmas and Abdullah had promised to look into it.

    “I think the permit is good news and the Government has given the Christian community a wonderful Christmas present.

    “The community will certainly be happy to know that the Government is looking into their welfare,” said Dompok.

    ===============================================

    This news never say Allah is allowed or not in the Malay section.

  129. Don’t worry. now UMNO can tell their kampung folks that UMNO made all Christians converted to Islam because Christians started calling their God as Allah. And this was at the instruction of UMNO and BN.

  133. ///..They always create problems then send a “saviour” and then the PM and govt will come out smelling like a bunch of roses!/// -smeagroo.

    “They” implies that people in power are a homogenous group out to heighten racial and religious issues and then soften their stance to come out smelling like a bunch of roses.

    Somehow, the more likely scenario is that only some within the power elite (bankrupt of other issues) are more likely playing racial and religious issues to garner either their constituency’s or other ultra rightist support within UMNO for the coming election.

    They proceed on the assumption and perception that their numero ono is weak and would not dare to overrule or thwart whatever their initiatives at flashing the racial or religious card to promote the “Malay Agenda” in fear of losing rightist support within UMNO – not unless at least he could justify doing so due to strong public outcry and resistance, by which occasion the trouble makers could again also use the PM’s intervention as an excuse to mobilize rightists’ support within party against him.

    I imagine it is a complex political power game to push their leader to the tight corner between either alienating rightists’ or rakyat (especially minority)’s support. If they don’t continually undermine him by throwing such challenges how would they hasten his exit to make way for others to ascend up the ladder?

    That members of government are not homogenous is also seen in the person of UPKO President Bernard Dompok. I think he is a person of religious principles who will maintain collective unity only up to that point that his conscience permits. That point was reached where:

    · he resigned as chairman from the Parliamentary Select Committee on Integrity when he was accused by Nazri of being influenced by LKS on the issue of NRD officials not appearing before the committee;

    · he was the only non muslim minister amongst the other 9 who did not withdraw the memorandum on article 12(1)A to the PM and who at the launch of ‘The Merdeka Statement’ by the Centre for Public Policy Studies in Kuala Lumpur, said the nation’s founders did not have in mind an Islamic state when the Federation of Malaysia was formed in 1963 and further “I think my colleagues in the government will forgive me for saying that I will not agree that we are an Islamic state.”

    · And now to get the PM to overrule Johari on the Herald issue on use of the word Allah in reference to God in Bahasa.

    There may well be other moderates within the BN but moderates are usually silent not wanting to rock the boat or incur the other rightists’ ill-will.

    It is understandable why some like to play extremists because it pays and help make advances.

    If they are resisted and stopped by moderates, they don’t lose anything in the status quo.

    However if they were not resisted and stopped, they would have made a marginal advance of their position by the extremist act.

    That being the case the risk of staying same or behind is minimal but the chances of going forward and advancing their position are always there by every initiative at extremism taken.

    On balance, extremism it appears is always worth the trying to advance and realise ambition, so to speak.

    One person labelled an ultra in 1970s was able to ascend to the helm position of the country.

  134. Dearest shamshul anuar,

    Shamshul says “Johari made the mistake here”

    By being able to see that “Johari made the mistake here” show you are not too stupid. IN FACT this is the smartest statement anybody here stated and summed out everything said. Bravo!!!

    Too bad, you are still way off … maybe blinded by that bright coloured “UMNO”.. if you could not see all these “thinking out loud” are all againsts that “mistake” and NOT againts RACE or RELIGION.

    Anyway.. we all like you to spell out LOUDER WHAT mistake did JOHARI made ? so JOHARI and the MALAY AND the malaysian MUSLIM and not forgetting the UMNO-BLINDED people like “yourself” could see it’s a serious racial/religious MISTAKE and hopefully learn to trust the non Malay and Non Muslim and to treat them like brother and sister.

    Any smart idea of what should be done to JOHARI

  135. Herald gets good news…….
    This news never say Allah is allowed or not in the Malay section.
    — ELIZABETH LOOI

    No news about allowing “Allah or not in the Malay section” is good news?
    If the approval letter did not say anything against the use of “Allah” to refer to Christian God in the Malay section of HERALD as a condition for the permit renewal, then silence implies consent.

    It must have dawned upon Deputy Johari that what is deemed practical (and convenient) by some sciolist in the Publication Dept. of the Internal Security Ministry may not not be the right thing to do.

    His earlier decision might have appeased a handful of Muslim extremists, but the change of mind would now have appeased the world, or least it promotes greater happiness for a greater number of people in the world.

    I will update you all on the actual situation when I receive the next issue of HERALD, whether the word “Allah” is deleted or the whole Bahasa Malaysia section of HERALD is removed.

  136. HERALD’s permit renewed without restriction — theSun 31.12.2007
    by Kimberley Lau

    HERALD’s editor Father Lawrence Andrew received a hand-delivered letter at about 10am yesterday from the Internal Security Ministry, which “places no restriction whatsoever and includes the permit for all languages, including the Bahasa Malaysia segment.

    It is as it was before.”

  138. The word ‘God’ can be expressed in any language and so can the word ‘Allah’- end of argument! Just who on God’s earth says so differently- show me the law? Only the dimwitted few, who by some freak of nature have been elevated to high positions in society, and then feel they need to show their “wisdom” to make moral proclamations for the benefit of their gallery!
    So, what I’d like to know is- how on earth D.I.S. Minister manage to make it as a Minister? Best he be sent for rehab, say, to Tanjong Rambutan, where he can go for another labotomy (the first one obviously failed)?

  139. Thank you God, u now have blessed them with some intellect, the Government has given Herald the go ahead and the permit to publish their weekly newpapers with no restrictions on the use of ALLAH., they must undergone an express course ia a local primary school., Well done.,pls continue putting more sense into these morons , AMEN.

  140. The laugh is on the people whom UMNO have taken on a ride. UMNO aren`t stoopid. They have tried out a tactic which has worked so well for more than 40 years, and once again suckered the rakyat.

  141. Readers, I want to remind you that the Herald could continue printing without restriction. BUT, the law that limits the use of Allah (and a few other words in fact) in Islam, is still intact.

    In another words, that issuance of printing license is not neccesarily a freedom on the rights to use certain words. This law could be re-enfornced at anytime. The government lifted that same law in 2003 (not abolished) and re-enforce it now.

  142. As politicians the Malays are not to be taken for granted.

    The political maneuvering that accompanies what appeared to be increasing religious intolerance this time has resulted in UMNO maintaining its traditional image as the only political party that has the best interests of the Malays and Muslims at heart, but at the same time showing to the rest that they can be accommodative to the demands of the non-Malays and non-Muslims.

  144. Seem UMNO bigots wanted to extend bumi special right to religion also.

    Religious supremacy mindset is as dangerous as racial supremacy, some muslims do believe their Allah is different from Christian God and more supreme than other Gods and “patung”.

    Racial supremacy yields apartheid and slavery system while religious supremacy creates religious conflict and extremism.

    I think I have first-hand experience to comprehend the mindset of Malaysia jihad movement when I was a student.

    I still remembered a lecturer in islamic study said Russian had beaten American in Vietnam war and Muslim had beaten Russian in Afghanistan, therefore Muslim has beatan both superpowers. I was speechless with this sort of logic!

    One of my lecturers eventually became the mastermind in Bali and Jakarta bombings. He was killed by Indonesian police two years ago.

  145. Dear Malaysiatoday,

    They say “Mannerism maketh a man”. Too bad that there are many people who are fond of criticizing others( due to hatred) who do not subscribe to such a beautiful concept.

    In the first place, there is no need to be personal. And I do not need to go back to kampung or surau to play racial card . Perhaps you are oblivious to the fact that Malay community also reside in urban areas. In some constituents in urban areas, they form the majority.

    They are also not comfortable after reading remarks here, among other ridiculing UMNO, Malays. I am afraid you do not really understand what Johari said. He did not say that Christians are insulting Islam by calling The Supreme Being they worship as Allah.

    Farish Noor may gave an example of terminology used in Egypt. What he overlooked is a simple fact. Ask anybody in Malaysia what Allah meant. Automatically they will tell you that Allah is what Muslims worship as their God.

    Therefore, Johari was acting only in good faith. To prevent any confusion. In no way that he acted in order to play religious card. As far as Muslims understand it, Christians believe Jesus as their God through the concept of trinity( Holy father, son and Ghost).

    Johari therefore see no reason why a Christian publication to mention the word “allah” . What he did not realized was that the terminoly “allah” was also common among Christians in East Malaysia. In fact, many of my friends( Muslims and Chrisatians alike) are surprised when I told them that Christians also use the word as reference to God.

    As for your accusation on UMNO trying to sacrifice MCA, MIC for its benefit, well I hope you can give a more credible argument. The truth that people like you hate to accept is that UMNO alone right now can form a Federal Govt on its own. If UMNO is what you think of, it can make the Federal Govt, state Govt fully occupied by Malays only.

    It is a matter of whether it really wants that to happen. I am not boasting. That is the reality. Without UMNO support, vast majority of MCA politicians will lose election.

    Again this may sound like overstating the importance of UMNO. But as goes the saying , reality hurts. As for Pulau Sibu, I fail to understand why there is the need to mocK UMNO, Malays. And do not underestimate the simple kampung people.

    Again your mentality just reveals what Malays think of people you. ‘Habislah negara ini kalau orang macam ini yang berkuasa”. That was what my Malay friends told me after reading your comments.

  146. Dear Sham sul,
    You obviously don’t have that kind of brain that could spot easily all these outcries come from the action of your beloved JOHARI trying to stop a popular Christian publication from using the word “Allah”
    You, your Muslim & Christian friends too obviously dont read the Herald, so could be excused for being ignorance but not for a man such as JOHARI. He should have been punished for “inciting racial and religious tension” He is not that “simple Kampong people”
    Again you fail to understand your statement such as this
    “If UMNO is what you think of, it can make the Federal Govt, state Govt fully occupied by Malays only.” is not beneficial to our society maybe even corrupt the minds of YOur simple kampung friends.
    I do hope you could be healed from your blindness to why all these outcries and help prevent it from happening again rather protecting and finding excuses for the people you obviously love who created it all. May Allah bless and make you see!

  147. Right..
    Shamshul Anuar,

    Quote:
    “Perhaps you are oblivious to the fact that Malay community also reside in urban areas. In some constituents in urban areas, they form the majority.”

    Let’s not start on how this rather hollow victory came about.
    You sounded quite learned.
    Quite a shame you find refuge in such a trivial fact.
    Disappointing.

    Quote:
    “Farish Noor may gave an example of terminology used in Egypt. What he overlooked is a simple fact. Ask anybody in Malaysia what Allah meant. Automatically they will tell you that Allah is what Muslims worship as their God.”

    Is this your rebuttal?
    Wow..

    Duh!~
    Again! With a skewed logic and obliviousness, one would of course think so.
    Isn’t it the same thing with crosses in the schools?
    The minister Edros said that “Times have changed and I think that we cannot allow Malays to look at the crosses and statues without explanation.”

    Then give them a damn explanation!
    Instead of pissing everyone off, why not have your ulamas give a proper teaching to inculcate a PROPER understanding?
    Wouldn’t that solve the problem without stepping on other toes?
    Is it really, that much harder?
    Unless…there IS an ulterior motive?Hmmmm..
    Tell me honestly, who would benefit more here?

    Does the banning of the word Allah from the Herald benefit the muslims in ANY WAY?

    ANY WAY??

    Besides being a tad more pompous(talking about the minister here)?

    Will they become, ever so slightly, wiser? smarter? more AWARE? of the REAL meaning of Allah..

    I’m sorry if you think that my logic is twisted as well, but, no. I don’t think so..

    I see this as a problem.
    A chronic problem actually.
    I think, Shamsul, that the problem here does NOT lie in the newspaper, but actually, in the MENTALITY of the society that Malaysia has given birth to.

    Please think about that.

    I think this paragraph below of yours reinforces my said statement.

    Quote:
    “In fact, many of my friends( Muslims and Chrisatians alike) are surprised when I told them that Christians also use the word as reference to God.”

    Fix the root.
    NOT the newspaper.
    Geez..

    Quote:
    “Again your mentality just reveals what Malays think of people you. ‘Habislah negara ini kalau orang macam ini yang berkuasa”. That was what my Malay friends told me after reading your comments.”

    HAHA!
    Your friends obviously haven’t been reading much of these huh..

    Or are even aware that we ARE RUN(Don’t make me explain it, this blog itself does a better job) by these kind of people.

    Might I suggest that you recommend some of these alternative media websites to them, BEFORE they start regurgitating remarks like so?

    : )

    Note: That wasn’t a personal hit, it’s just..actually funny, on all levels.

    I hope I get a little reply though.
    Really want to know what you think.

  148. Shamsul,

    I was stayed in Kampung Baru when Najib threated to kill orang Cina with his kris. But don’t mistaken all Malays are bigots who like to incite racial hatred as your UMNO leaders. My Malay friends cautioned me to be alerted on UMNO mob gathering in the stadium located behind my hostel.

    Johari is a Deputy Minister for ALL Malaysians, he shall be humble enough to learn and understand the reality in East Malaysia before he issued something on religion matters.

    I did not say Jahari is the one who suggested Islam is supreme than other religions. My islamic study learning experience in local university told me some Muslims are indeed believe that Islam is supreme than other religions.

    Malay muslims believe Allah is solely reserved for Islam is the fault of local education system.

    Supports from kampong malays in West Malaysia already good enough for UMNO alone to stay in power, but UMNO cannot control 2/3 seats without supports from bumipeteras in East Malaysia.

    Why UMNO still needs MCA, MIC and others? PAS can be a main challenger to UMNO and form new government if non-muslim bumiputeras in East Malaysia, Chinese and Indians are decidedly support PAS.

    UMNO knows this political reality better than you, this is main reason why UMNO dare not to form Federal government by themself.

    Of course, this scenario will change in next 20 years when Malay population reaches 80% and above.

    Tell your Malay friends, non-bumi will never got chance to form government in Malaysia under the existing election system.

    Anyway if I were PM, I will help all poor rakyat regardless of their race and abolish housing discounts for rich bumiputeras.

  149. Just saw thestar online today that cabinet have decided that herald cant use the word “ALLAH”, my questions is how about the Holy Bible in Bahasa Melayu? “ALLAH” is the word use in most Holy Bible in Bahasa Melayu.

    Will the cabinet later decide that we should destroy all other religion book that have the word “ALLAH” inside?

  150. Dear Malaysiatoday.

    Many thanks for your remarks. Perhaps this explanation will enlighten all of us. Muslims, just like believers of other faiths, of course believe Islam is the true religion. There is no denying on that.

    However, Islam reminded Muslims the virtue of justice and fairness. Kuran also reminds Muslims not to mock the believe of other faiths “the same way you do not wish your faith in Me(Allah) mocked”. That itself is reminder by Allah in Kuran.

    I fail to see the issue here. “Allah” is the word Muslim uses to identify the God according to their faith. In no way, such a ruling prohibits Christians from recognising Jesus as their God.

    The intention is good. To prevent any comfusion as it involves the very foundation of both religions. As for my defence on UMNO, it is done in response to insulting remark asking me to back to kampung to mislead kampung people and baseless argument that ridicule UMNO relationship with MCA, MIC.

    So, I just give the truth that is hard to accept. If UMNO is as accused, it had long time ago discarded these 2 parties. Even at independence, it controls 34 of 52 parliamentary seats. It is a matter of wanting to do it or not. But it respects the gentlemen agrrement with these 2 parties.

    I mean no disrespect to anybody. As for claim that Najib claimed to kill Chinese, please enlighten me with your imaginary theory. As for your remarks that “non-bumi will never…” , perhap[s you should look at what we call “demography”.

    Considering the fact that the Malays form the largest etnic group in Malaysia, naturally they have the most influence in politics. Similarly, In Singapore, the Chinese controls the politics.

    There is nothing embarassing about such a fact.

  151. Shamsul annuar, remove the blinkers and you will see light.
    As a non Muslim, I cant mention your God’s name. Fine with me. I have also prohibitted my young kids from doing so lest they be arrested for mentioning your God’s name. I teach my kids to switch off the tv when your religion’s programme is shown, lest my kids hear your God’s name.
    My friend who had wanted to convert to Islam, (to get married, and that is his truth)now has a dilemma. Unless and until my friend mentions your God’s name he cant be accepted as a Muslim. But until he is accepted as a Muslim he as a non Muslim cant mention your God’s name.

    The next issue is about this Independence of Malaysia. Cant you understand that Malaysia was created, was formed? Malaya is now history. But to confine Malaya to history would mean that UMNO and their co called struggle for iNdependence would be irrelevant. So UMNO persists by saying 50 years of INdependence. Now what struggle was there by UMNO for the Independence of

    MALAYSIA? Malaysia was formed, was created dont you understand? It is only the UMNO and yopu who say that Malays form the largest ethnic Minority. But this country had been diiiiivided into Malays and non Malays, Muslims and non Muslims, would you say it is 50:50?
    With a definition of Malay like in the constitution andbody can be a Malay, whites, blacks brown, yellow, all colours of the rainbow.
    No wonder Malays cannot disappear from the face of this earth.

  152. Dear Kaybeegee.

    I refer to your remarks. I fail to understand your point. What exactly you were trying to say. And with due respect to you, get the facts right. And be critical, not paranoid.

    Please enlighten me who forbids you to listen to the word “Allah”. And to convert into Islam is simple. Just say the “syahadaH” meaning accepting Allah as the God and Prophet Muhammad is His messenger.

    And what is it with you that you are unable to accept the truth that UMNO is instrumental is getting independence for Malaya.

  153. Shamsul, UMNO alone was not responsible for getting the Independance of Malaya. But that is not the point here. The question is that of Malaysia. Malaysia did not get her Independence. Malaysia was formed, was created. Where is UMNO’s struggle for the creation of Malaysia?
    To say the syahadah one must mention your God’s name which non Muslims are prohibted. UMNO must now make more rules as to the exception to when and how non Muslims can mention your God’s name.
    Strange Saudara Shamsul that you should say that the Kuran(sic) mentions “not to mock OTHER faiths(capital letters mine). Does this mean that the Koran recognises other faiths, which must means religions pre Islam? Christianity as preached by Jesus?
    “Give instruction to a wise man and he will yet be wiser”

  154. By the way Saudara Shamsul, we the non Malays are not confused about race and religion. We know the difference between the two. When we inter marry our children will follow the father’s race. religion can be the father’s if it differs from the mother’s or none at all’
    But not the Malays. because you are defined a malay if you fall within the definition of Malay in the sacred federal constitution.
    Your race and your religion go together. We have no problems with that.
    But the farce lies when say an Indian Man converts to Islam and instead of being classified Indian Muslim, his children by his Malay wife are Malays! But if this Indian convert to Islam marries Meenachi convert to Islam what race will their offspring be?
    So the confusion to race is UMNO, the Government’s making.
    Imagine children of white males convert to Islam are Malays? Yet at ttime of birth the baby can only cry, let alone speak the Malay language.
    Just in passing Saudara, a white Muslim, told me what is the problem with the Malay language? He speaks English resepelled.So he is speaking Bahasa Malaysia.
    Whatever is said here Saudara, we are friends.

  155. DEar Kaybeegee.

    Many thanks for your questions. Islam recognises the existence of other religions. Muslims are reminded to respect the belief and tradition of other religions.

    As for Jesus, he is recognised as a prophet , not as the God. Muslims accord him high regards. Even a chapter of Kuran is named after Lady Mary( Mariam). However, Muslims do not agree with the concept of trinity. Kuran clearly said that in one of the verses. The verse said that ” …And We do not give birth to someone…”. And Muslims are reminded that nobody knows Allah’s physical attributes.

    And I beg to differ. Nobody can stop non Muslims from uttering the word “Allah”. What is prohibited is using the name for purposes of religions other than Islam. Actually, it is quite simple.

  157. dear all n sundry,
    please i challenge u all to pray to your god sincerely n ask him whether he is happy with all your “protecting” and limiting the use of “GOD” in whatever names. Ask n wait for HIS answer, not listen to yr imaginary answer. Thw true GOD will deliver his reply to your confused minds to stop inciting quarrels on “monopolising” god in whatever format. GoD forbids.

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