Just left the Christmas High Tea Reception hosted by the Christian Federation of Malaysia at Bukit Nanas, Kuala Lumpur when I received an irate call from Penang.
The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi who attended the Christmas Reception with his wife and a retinue of MCA Ministers and Deputy Ministers (unlike last year, when he sent the Deputy Finance Minister, Ng Yen Yen instead – causing great annoyance all-round) had left and guests could leave.
I was in DAP MP for Seputeh, Teresa Kok’s car when I got the call. It was 5.06 pm.
At first I could not make head or tail why the caller was so indignant – something about what the new Gerakan No. 1 and Penang Chief Minister, Tan Sri Dr. Koh Tsu Koon had said in his Christmas message and which appeared in New Straits Times.
I had read the Christmas messages of the Prime Minister (and blogged about it) and those of Ong Ka Ting, Samy Vellu and Lim Keng Yaik but missed Tsu Koon’s message.
The caller, a leading Penang NGO activist, poured out his fury and asked how Tsu Koon could say in his Christmas message that Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.
He said he was calling from a Christmas party and all who attended were very angry with Tsu Koon’s Christmas message, as what has celebration of Christmas got to do with Islam as the official religion.
I tended to agree but I said I had not read Tsu Koon’s Christmas message and it would not be fair for me to comment until I have read his Christmas message in its entirety. He asked me to check with New Straits Times.
When I arrived back at the DAP headquarters in Petaling Jaya, I immediately looked for a copy of the New Straits Times. I went through the pages and could not find Tsu Koon’s message. I had to check the paper a second time to find that Tsu Koon’s Christmas message was tucked away in a half-page of Christmas messages in page 2, which was dominatede by three personalities with accompanying photographs, Samy Vellu, Keng Yaik and Musa Aman (Sabah Chief Minister) and others without pictures like Ong Ka Ting.
Tsu Koon’s message was tucked away inconspicuously and without any accompanying photograph, would have been missed by most readers.
And his Christmas message was just one paragraph: “Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.” There was no larger context.
I agree with the irate caller. Tsu Koon has put his foot in his mouth once again.
He must do some immediate Damage Control, otherwise the fearsome UMNO will give him a severe punishment.
“Blind me, I will bend down on my knees, but please spare me.
respect is earned.
that is all i can say.
Equivalent to saying
“Christians are celebrating with you, so please respect”
On Hari Raya.
Come on, small matter, dont bring it up.
I was reading the news on The Star Online when i saw this.
” Malaysia needs moderation, not extremism, says PM
By MANJIT KAUR and ELIZABETH LOOI
KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysians must give priority to moderation and not be dragged into extremism, as it would pull the people apart, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
………..
He also cited the similarities that Christian and Islam shared, adding that in the Quran, Jesus (Prophet Isa) was a servant of God. ”
Uncle Lim, what the heck is wrong with the last sentence? To Christians, Jesus is the son of GOD! How can he utter such remarks during Christmas celebration?
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/12/25/nation/20071225190638&sec=nation
That’s the link to the article, but i am sure it will be removed.
” what he is trying to say is not to say Allah, when prasing the God”
malaysians of all religion must be respected and and proud of own belief. I think its just Tsu Koon’s ‘slip of the tongue’
The Star Online > Nation
Tuesday December 25, 2007
MYT 7:36:01 PM
Malaysia needs moderation, not extremism, says PM
By MANJIT KAUR and ELIZABETH LOOI
PM attends Christmas tea party
KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysians must give priority to moderation and not be dragged into extremism, as it would pull the people apart, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
He said if the people did not emphasise on moderation, they would be easily pressured and influenced by extremism.
“If moderation does not take centre stage, extremism will take the place and we will all be dragged into it, it comes from the basis of religion, race or groups.
“This is what we should watch out for, this is what it give us problems,” said Abdullah in his speech at a Christmas tea party organised by the Christian Federation of Malaysia and hosted by KL Archbishop Datuk Murphy Pakiam.
He also called on the people to uphold the spirit of tolerance and mutual respect that they had been practising in a multi-racial community.
The Prime Minister said the country needed the strength of tolerance and friendship, which the people had for each other for the country to continue to grow and prosper.
He said Malaysi was a land of opportunity and a land where everyone knew how to respect one another and knew how to give and take.
Abdullah said everyone wanted a peaceful and harmonious country to live in, adding that this should the ultimate goal of every Malaysian.
“This is our responsibility that we have to carry out diligently, so that our country will become a peaceful country.
“I’m aware of religious issues that happen from time to time and we should solve these problems together with a very high level of understanding, tolerance and respect,” he said.
Abdullah said he was very happy to be invited to the party, as he could see people of different religion, namely Buddhists, Hindus and Christians, getting together at the event.
“If we sit together and eat the same food, it symbolises the friendship, degree of tolerance and mutual respect,” he added.
He also cited the similarities that Christian and Islam shared, adding that in the Quran, Jesus (Prophet Isa) was a servant of God.
© 1995-2005 Star Publications (Malaysia) Bhd (Co No 10894-D)
One can’t help but think that the Penang Chief Minister said that to appease UMNO after the Gerakan Youth scathing criticism debacle. And I suppose from his point of view, he wanted the message to sound reasonable.
But hang on a minute here… is he implying that Christians, when celebrating Christmas, are raising sensitive issues about the Islamisation of Malaysia? Or is he asking Christians not to raise this issue at all, period?
Surely, a statement like that cannot exist in a vacuum, especially coming from a state leader who has been in politics for many many years. Most Malaysians are trying not to be sensitive despite hurtful things being spoken repeatedly by UMNO leaders, youth leaders in particular, but coming from the Chief Minister of a non-Muslim majority state is quite a puzzle, and perhaps at worst, a slap on the face on Christians, since if it was his observation that the Christian community did something sensitive, he had better back it up with facts, otherwise he is no different than those half past six UMNO MPs and Ministers.
If it is directed at the “Allah” issue, that remains to be debated, so it would be a folly for him to try to pre-empt a proper discussion on that subject matter, again reflecting his panic reaction towards mere UMNO youth scolding.
I think this is not too big an issue as he is a Muslim. He could express his own view point, though I, as a Christian surely do not agree with him. This is freedom of speech. Moreover, this is also what their religion teaches. However, as a PM, it could have been better for him not to say on such a point knowing that this is the day the Christians are celebrating the birth of their Savior Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Merry Christmas!
The last memory that lingers in my mind is my baby girl putting her foot in her mouth and now KSK had done it. Oh Blimy! mr bennylok can you give a visual presentation, please!
wtf,who is extremist?the 2000 lawyers?the BERSIH,or the HINDRAF,i tell you the premier beast of the country,more ‘extremists’ are coming!wtf r u talking!
sorry for the error…it should say ‘bennylohstocks’
As I was about to write this message my wife remarked , “Why hell should these Christians invite this scums to speak at their Christmas celebrations!
This PM zzzzzzzz does not even understand his own religion. So how can he speak on another religion’s doctrine?
What Islam speaks about Jesus is of no concern to us. It is what Christianity tells us about Jesus that matters.
My analsysi is as follows;
a) erection is around the corner
b) BN is using religion to divide the BA from working together because of this religions impass
Solution: Not get distracted by their ploy. BA must work together, put religion aside this time round.
Friends out there, please be patient.
KSK will put up this message for Hari Raya next year:
“Muslim, while celebrating HR, must respect other religions although Islam is the official relion of Malaysia”.
Merry Christmas.
sorry, S/B ‘official religion’
it is sad to learn that PM failed to understand that he is not “ALLAH” but “HAMAS”
It is still 25th of Christmas and let’s go back into ancient history for a moment. It was the Roman Emperor who declared this day as Christmas Day but if you do a research into the Bible, Christmas Day was actually not on the 25th of December. The t.v. showed a Christmas tea reception hosted by a certain church and I can imagine the uneasy feeling present. But it was good to see that despite all odds, peace prevailed. Well if New Straits Times put Koh’s message as such, it gives an impression that we have not been respecting Islam. I agree to the fact that respect has to be earned or else it is just kopi o cemerlang acknowledgement. How should we non Islamic Malaysians prove to the Islamic Malaysians that we have been respecting Islam all these while since independence ? 10 points here to say that we non Muslim Malaysians have been respecting the Muslim Malaysians.
Number 1. We have to endure silently your official Islamic prayer at any official function
Number 2. We have to listen to Islamic preachings as if there are no other speakers of other religions
Number 3. Nobody complains about your very early morning prayers Number 4. Food eaten must be halal
Number 5. You must wear like the Muslims do
Number 6. Islamic banking
Number 7. Compulsory for Muslims to leave everything including what is secularly important to do Islamic activities
Number 8. Don’t eat and drink in front of the Muslims during Ramahdan
Number 9. Let Muslims be the first to achieve the first for Malaysia
Number 10. Promote the Muslims
I am sure that others out there have more points to add in. If we have been respecting Islam, how about Islamic followers respecting us in return since they hold the controlling power over the country ?
SIMPLYJUSTICE:
How PM related to HAMAS?
He seem to be FATAH suporter, when he only help palestinian through FATAH eventhough HAMAS have won election?
I am HAMAS supported anyway, please dont link PM to HAMAS.
“If moderation does not take centre stage, extremism will take the place and we will all be dragged into it, it comes from the basis of religion, race or groups.”Abdullah Badawi
‘Moderation’ has been dragged off the stage, kicking and screaming, for years now and he sits in the first row a witness to it all and he has the cheek to ask, “Tell me the truth” – what truth do you want to see and hear?
“Truth” has but one version.
May be Uncle Lim should highlight some of the work DAP or the opposition parties have carried out or being carried out to assist the flood victims irrespective of race. The Rakyat will appreciate this and this will show that DAP is not only for the non-malay.
If the term “Allah†can not be used by Christians to refer to God in Malaysia, then Malaysia may become an anomaly among the nations of the world, because of the following reasons:
1. The term “Allah†was in use long before there was Islam religion in the world.
2. The term “Allah†was used to refer to God by Arabic-speaking Christians before Arabic-speaking Muslims existed.
3. Malaysia is probably the only nation where the use of the term “Allah†by Christians to refer to their God is prohibited, whereas its use to refer to Christian God has never been prohibited in many countries in the Middle-East and the Americas.
The Prime Minister, Internal Security Deputy Minister, Datuk Johari Baharum and Dr. Koh Tsu Koon may need to read history before supporting yet another onslaught on Malaysians’ constitutional right, that of freedom of religion. The following information may enlighten them so that they reconsider their stand.
While the term “Allah†is used by Muslims as a reference to God, it is also used by arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews in reference to “God”.
The term “Allah†was even used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, before the rise of Islam in the 630s.
Arabic-speaking Christians predate Arabic-speaking Muslims, as there were many Arab tribes which adhered to Christianity since the first century.
Muslims believe that the verses of the Qur’an were revealed to Muhammad by God through the angel Gabriel on many occasions between 610 and his death on July 6, 632.
The first year in the Muslim calendar was 622 AD during which the Hijra occurred— Muhammad’s emigration from Mecca to Medina. Bearing in mind that the Muslim lunar year is 354.37 days, 11 days short of the solar year, which is 365.25 days, the current Islamic Year is 1428 AH, while we are now in the year 2008 AD.
The largest number of Arabic-speaking Christians, whether in real numbers or in proportion to a country’s population, are to be found in the following countries:
Lebanon
Egypt
Syria
Israel (as well as the Palestinian territories)
Jordan.
Emigrant Arab communities who are overwhelmingly Christian are found in:
Argentina
Brazil
Colombia
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
United States
Brazil
There are approximately 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world, after Christianity. How many Muslims and others objected to Malaysian Christians’ use of the term “Allah†to refer to their God? Using Nazri’s method of drawing inference, only 2+1? The rest who said nothing are deemed not to support them?
I can be objective because I am an agnostic.
ALAmak!
“Uncle Lim, what the heck is wrong with the last sentence? To Christians, Jesus is the son of GOD! How can he utter such remarks during Christmas celebration?” iweepformalaysia
Yes, who is the father of Jesus? It is not Joseph but God. Some look upon Jesus is God himself in human flesh.
Jesus or Yesus or Isa in the Koran (in which Mary is mentioned seven times and more times than she is mentioned in the Christian Bible) is a servant of God (unlike Mohammad who is the Messenger of God).
The Jews look upon Jesus (remember, Jesus was a Jew) as a very good rabbi and not The Messiah – whose coming is predicted in the Torah or in the first five chapters of the Old Testament. Today some 2,000 years later the Jews are still waiting for their messiah.
Jews, Christians and Muslims are People of the Book. Abdullah Badawi being a Muslim sees Jesus in the manner his faith teaches him to do. There is nothing wrong with that.
Here’s something that non-Muslims may not know. Both Christians and Muslims expect the return of Jesus. Sounds familiar? Mohammad died but Jesus or Isa to Muslims is not dead.
Islam may rank second after Christianity. But it is the fastest-growing religion in the world. In the United States, for example, some 85 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 14 years.
Interesting earnest. Where the hell you get all those data?
Now, if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were the same, ie Abrahamic, so what in the world they fight against each other? They shared everything, just that the later ones changed/improved on certain practices. It would then seem to exist a fundamental reason of the breakings and formations of sects as we know today – to be GOD.
So, moving back to the world today, isn’t our beloved Bodohwi the Imam Besar of Islam Hadhari, another sect (or should we call cult) under Islam? Obviously he wants to be worshipped as GOD!!
Jews, Christians and Muslims are People of the Book. Abdullah Badawi being a Muslim sees Jesus in the manner his faith teaches him to do. There is nothing wrong with that. – undergrad2
Well, if you look through his lenses, then there’s definitely nothing wrong. But he is so wrong to utter such insensitive remarks during the gathering of Christians. I bet he just don’t care and feel for others. Where the hell is the tolerance and understanding he preached? Imagine if we said something degrading to Islam during Hari Raya. What will happen?
To: U32
This is because Article 3 (1) of our Constitution has been given an ambit and a meaning that, I submit respectfully, not intended by the draftsman. A small window was left open as a result of the less than perfect drafting.
Similarly with Article 11(4). The objective of defending the special position of Islam [accorded to it under Article 3(1)] in our Constitution translates over the years into what could be characterized as unbridled ‘enthusiasm’ to check the growth of other religions.
It is about religious bigots among our politicians filling up the ‘gaps’ left in the Constitution.
“But he is so wrong to utter such insensitive remarks during the gathering of Christians. I bet he just don’t care and feel for others.”
He is guilty of insensitivity. You’re right.
But I don’t think he meant to be insensitive. I think he was trying to reach out to Christians, that there is a lot in common between the two faiths. But what do you expect from Abdullah Badawi? He needs a new speech writer.
“Now, if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were the same, ie Abrahamic, so what in the world they fight against each other?”
Why are Muslims fighting Muslims in Iraq? Why are Catholics fighting Protestants in Northern Ireland? Why are Jews fighting Jews over settlements in Palestine?
Bloggers,
Koh Tsu Koon wished the Christians in the following manner in NST:
“Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.â€.
I was curious about Koh’s educational background and found the following about Koh’s background in the Wikipedia:
“Prior to entering politics, Dr. Koh was a lecturer and the Deputy Dean of the School of Education in Universiti Sains Malaysia in Penang from 1975 to 1982. He graduated from Princeton University, USA, in 1970 with a degree in physics, and obtained his PhD from the University of Chicago in 1977 in economics and sociology of education. (Koh’s PhD thesis title is Education, Entrepreneurial Formation and Entrepreneurial Behavior in Japan). He was also a Fulbright Fellow at Stanford University and the East-West Centre in Hawaii in 1981.”
Quite credible since Princeton University is one of the 8 Ivy league universities in the states. But it’s sad that such an education did not do greater good for the society. I wonder what is Koh’s financial assets amounts. This is is another classis case of an individual who seemed to have been educated well but not wise. Another example of the failure of education today. Another example of the absence of soulful learning in education today. Another example of how education today only makes individuals to be cunning and selfish. Another example of the failure of education today not able to bring the best out from an individual ( The root meaning to educate is to bring out that which is latent in man ).
His Christmas wishes clearly indicates that he is a slave to UMNO leaders. No matter what University he may have studied, it doesn’t reflect his integrity, honesty and true spirit of what it means to serve people through politics.
Please throw him out in the next election.
God bless Malaysia.
Anba,
This is what politics does to some.
“But what do you expect from Abdullah Badawi? He needs a new speech writer.” – undergrad2
Well, rumours have it that Tun Mahathir wrote and prepared his own scripts. Wonder why Badawi couldn’t do that. Maybe his education level plays a big part.
“Why are Muslims fighting Muslims in Iraq? Why are Catholics fighting Protestants in Northern Ireland? Why are Jews fighting Jews over settlements in Palestine?” – undergrad2
Yeah, you got a point. But when you say Muslims (Shi’ites) vs Muslims (Sunnis) and Catholics vs Protestants, you disregarded something which could be crucial. Those are wars of sects (hiding under the umbrella of a larger institution, ie Islam and Christianity). What they get out the war? The winner will shape and form the mainstream (ie follow by everyone).
Man, it is cool talking to you.
Website Censorship on hindraf official website (www.policewatchmalaysia.com) by Malaysian government.
Dear Uncle Lim,
Can you highlight this website censorship issue? Above website can be acceseed from overseas only, but not from Malaysia.
Well, the Church in Sabah is still suing Badawi – whether he likes it or not. His sensitivity be damned. Until today he can`t solve the issue. What rubbish sensitivity is that?
His yacht? His jet? His condom selling son becoming a millionaire? The oil-for-food scandal involving his relatives? This is as lady macbeth said `An evil serpent beneath an innocent flower`.
Once again: His sensitivity be damned.
Btw apparently (www.policewatchmalaysia.com) can be accesed thru jaring connections.
iweepformalaysia,
Sources of information: The Internet, Personal communications, own computation.
Calculations as follows:
2007 AD – 622 AD = 1385 solar years
1385 *(365.25-354.27)=43 additional Muslim lunar years
Therefore current Muslim year is 1385+43=1428 AH.
Basing on personal communications, 1428 AH corresponds with 2007-2008 AD.
erratum:
“Bearing in mind that the Muslim lunar year is 354.37 days, 11 days short of the solar year, which is 365.25 days, the current Islamic Year is 1428 AH, while we are now in the year 2008 AD.”
should read ” …..2007 AD.”
Jews, Christians and Muslims are People of the Book. Abdullah Badawi being a Muslim sees Jesus in the manner his faith teaches him to do. There is nothing wrong with that. – undergrad2
There is plenty wrong with that if the propagator of islam hadhari does not know the difference between the Jesus of The Bible and the Jesus in Islam.
There is also no necessity to bring Jews into the picture when talking about Jesus.
Islam may rank second after Christianity. But it is the fastest-growing religion in the world. In the United States, for example, some 85 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 14 years. – undergrad2
Yes, most mosques built with Saudi Arabian money puring in, not by the american muslims themselves. A large %age of these `converts` leave within the first 6 months too.
The fastest growing religion is also said to be sikhism. So there`s debate on this `fastest`.
The reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world has been widely acknowledged by Christians – the reason being the fact that in Islam you cannot convert out once you’re born a Muslim or once you become a Muslim. You find religious persecution in many Muslim countries. Malaysia included.
So Pak Lah was at the Archbishop’s function. Did the Archbishop manage to talk with him about the Herald ban? Not appropriate? When then? PM going on holidays soon.
Tsu Koon is a big disappointment but what can you expect from a sycophant but to grovel and bumble along? I am amazed he has lasted so long in Penang and might switch to Federal soon. God help us if he moves to the center. Why do Penang people love this bungling fellow so much I can’t fathom.
“There is plenty wrong with that if the propagator of islam hadhari does not know the difference between the Jesus of The Bible and the Jesus in Islam.”
I’m sure he knows. You can give that to him. I’m a Christian and I’m not insulted because I can understand where he’s coming from with that statement and where he’s going. Would you come as an honored guest and insult your host? Not likely. His approach was not meant to be exclusive but inclusive.
Even among Christians, of which I’m one, there is a difference between the historical Jesus and the spiritual Jesus. Muslims regard Jesus as one in a long line of prophets and that Mohammad was the last of the prophets. That is a statement of faith and history. Why history? Because Jesus was believed to have been born some 2000 years ago and Mohammad some 600 years later(?).
“There is also no necessity to bring Jews into the picture when talking about Jesus.”
Why not?? Jesus was a Jew! Abraham was as much a prophet to Christians and Muslims!
Judaism which is 3,000 years old, Christianity 2,000 years old and Islam 1,400 years old share the same Old Testament prophets of the Christian Bible, the Torah if you’re a Jew. It is important that we give ourselves the perspective needed to understand why Abdullah Badawi being a Muslim said what he said and in the manner he said to a Christian audience celebrating the birth of Jesus to whom Jesus was God in human flesh, to the Jews a rabbi and to Muslims another prophet.
“Tsu Koon puts foot in his mouth once again”
Tsu Koon suffers from foot and mouth disease?
Kit says:
“And his( Tsu Koon’s) Christmas message was just one paragraph: “Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.†There was no larger context.”
1) The fact that Christian Federation of Malaysia invited the muslim PM and a host of Cabinet ministers to their Christmas function which is a religious celebration speaks volumes for the inter-religious respect and religious tolerance of Christians. Has any muslim invited any non-Muslim for their Aidil Adhha?
2) Without saying more, Tsu Koon is guilty of allowing nefarious implications to crash into his Christmas message with little sensitivity for the feelings of others. “Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas” can only refer to Christians. “…must respect Islam as the country’s official religion” begs the question: how and in what ways have Christians been disrespectful of Islam as the nation’s official religion? Innuendoes such as this are hurtful and may be misinterpreted especially by UMNO members who rarely think straight or independently as the gospel truth. UMNO and BN members have this silly habit of accepting literally what their leaders say without critical scrutiny – and that’s where the troubles always begin!
3) All said, this a a season of goodwill. So, let’s in a spirit of amity invite KSK to explain his intentions and the real message behind his veiled words. Hello, KSK, please be so kind…
Sorry…”Hello, KSK, please be so kind…”
KSK should read as KTK for Koh Tsu Koon.
Nanyang Siang Pau yesterday carried a more fulsome report of Tsu Koon’s “foot-in-the-mouth” Christmas message.
It reported that Tsu Koon reminded Malaysians, while celebrating festivities, should defend and honour the spirit of the Constitutional guarantee and Rukunegara principle on freedom of religion and at the same time, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.
Gerakan’s days in Penang are numbered because Tsu Koon has not learned after all these year. He is just not fit to be number one.
Khairy Jamaludin and Hishamudin must be laughing their pants off.
“…the reason being the fact that in Islam you cannot convert out once you’re born a Muslim or once you become a Muslim. You find religious persecution in many Muslim countries. Malaysia included.†Undergrad2
Very true, when there is no free will there is no true faith. You cannot differentiate between true faith and fake ritual.
Muslim has no free will to accept or reject their faith. Once you are born as a Muslim you are counted as one for life even though deep inside you are not. You continue to live a life as a religious actor.
A good illustration is when Saddam Hussein was in power all Iraqi worshiped him as a great leader, which of course was fake ritual because there was no free will.
I beg to differ, a foot-in-the-mouth is unintentional even subconsciously.
This is actually a Freudian slip – revealing the unconscious. At the very least he believes that Christmas and Islamization in this country is in conflict. Potentially he believes in the ‘clash of civilization’.
More important than that it also reveals that he think there is a master-slave relation of religion in this country logically also that of master-slave relation between races and political parties.
What KTK did is stupid. In all the fence sitting he does all the time, he just lost it, forgot the larger picture.
Oh..how our subconscious pricks the guilty mind…
If we look at the issue of Tsu Koon the foot sucker , isn’t it obvious that this is a plot? UMNO has been trying hard to remove Gerakan from its base – Penang for ages. UMNO has always wanted a Muslim Chief Minister there, because they see Penang as a big fat piece of meat. So how can they be left out?
They know Tsu Koon is weak, so they try to put pressure on him, tarnishing his reputation so that Gerakan and himself will lose popularity. In the end, who will come and save Gerakan? UMNO of course. Gerakan will be grateful and let UMNO take over Penang. Just like the case of MIC and MCA. UMNO always lend a helping hand at the front while at the same time stabing them at the back.
That’s how evil UMNO is. This country is hopeless.
When UMNO youth speaks,Koh Tsu Koon pee on his pants,that is why he wrote the nstp message to “bodek” these youth idiots.Very dissappointed with him,a leader with no guts and a coward.
He had lost his credibility let alone to displine his Indian youth leader whom he spoke out the truth about the UMNO youth idiots.
KTK have no choice at all. We all know that he have been the best polisher in BN dan PGRM.
So far, he will not care about how the world look at him as long as he can achieve his dream.
Let not be angry with him as it’s a real waste of our time here.
Focus on the roots of all these issue.
Make the right choice for the future of fellow Malaysian.
“Malaysians, while celebrating Christmas, must respect Islam as the country’s official religion.â€
Tsu Koon, since when did the ‘Malaysians Celebrating Christmas’ NOT RESPECT Islam?
That is an idiotic statement from an Idiot.
Merry Christmas & A Happy New Year to ALL Malaysians.
[deleted]
I’m sure he knows. You can give that to him. I’m a Christian and I’m not insulted because I can understand where he’s coming from with that statement and where he’s going. Would you come as an honored guest and insult your host? Not likely. His approach was not meant to be exclusive but inclusive. – undergrad2
It`s good you are not feeling insulted. But every christian (about 30 on X`mas day) that I have met feels insulted. So seems to me you are massively outvoted on that.
Why not?? Jesus was a Jew! Abraham was as much a prophet to Christians and Muslims! – undergrad2
The Jews do not consider Jesus as their prophet. They are still waiting for the messiah.
As for the Jesus of the Christians, and that of Islam, they are 2 totally different entities. You need to learn more about the Jesus of islam instead of making such a obfuscating statement.
It would be akin to saying that since the words `sembahyang` and `puasa` are sanskrit, the hindus are muslims. That is failed logic. Commonality of words does not make thought commonality.
[deleted]
Would you come as an honored guest and insult your host? Yes, look at what Al Gore did to Mahatir in KL by shouting ‘reformasi’
“Khairy Jamaludin and Hishamudin must be laughing their pants off.” – dawsheng
KJ and Kerishammuddin might be laughing but it’s small contribution to umno. Watch out for the BIG one. All it takes for Spore, Thailand or Indonesia to say something slightly out of line the watch opportunist UMNO jumping in to get itself all throttled-up and call for rakyat to stand by it.
Keep watching, it happens ever General Election. I am sure opposition political parties are all too familiar with it. Even my Singapore friends are having good laughs, waiting for it to happen as GE draws near.
The Jesus of Islam, Jews and Christian referred the same human being. However, what is different is how each accorded different attributes to this human being.
To Islam, he is one of the prophets.
To Chirstians, he is GOD.
To Jews, I really don’t know.
However, the subject of this topic is NOT about Jesus. It is about the Islamisation of Malaysia where it heading towards a choiceless choice in embracing this religion.
It seems to me that if you are not for Islam, you are against it!. This the ever exclusive nature of monoethist religion, even Christianity!
However, in Christianity today, you have a choice to reject or accept this teaching.
In the brand of Islam practiced today in Malaysia, the availability of choice of is not obvious, as contary to the ability to choose.
Whatever the phases of Islam is going thru, it is not very different from the main turmoils that the Chirstian Church went thru a long time ago.
Learn from the Church Histoty, it could guide us on predicting the future. Or I could wrong. This is just my view.
“Even my Singapore friends are having good laughs, waiting for it to happen as GE draws near.” Jong
Just to add, Malaysians in Singapore will cry!.
Koh Ah Koon is a Confucianist/Daoist/Buddhist/Ahmadi/Zoroastrian/Bahai/Sikh(from the turban he dons during Sikh festivities)/you-name-it, he-is-it/
He is CM in name only. So why ask him to officiate and give speeches during Christmas?
“1) …..Has any muslim invited any non-Muslim for their Aidil Adha? ENDANGERED HORNBILL”
Have u forgotten that the meat from sacrificed cows, buffaloes etc are only meant for poor muslims? It’s not meant to be given away for poor non muslims. So, how can any non muslims can be invited?
Tickler, perhaps you may want to read again what I said earlier in response to what you said which was:
“There is also no necessity to bring Jews into the picture when talking about Jesus.†Tickler
Why not?? Jesus was a Jew! Abraham was as much a prophet to Christians and Muslims!
I once asked a Jew on what he thought of Jesus and he said Jews look upon Jesus (a Jew) as “a very good rabbi” .
The coming of the Messiah spoken of in the Old Testament (a prophesy) or first five chapters of it (which make up the Torah) was Jesus of the New Testament to Christians. The Jews remaining true to their Torah, are still waiting for ‘their’ Messiah. The Jews do not acknowledge Jesus as that Messiah.
I know nothing about the Koran. But having grown up among Muslims, from what I am told, Jesus is a prophet in a long line of prophets down from Abraham and Mohammad was the last Messenger.
So when Abdullah Badawi referred to Jesus as a “servant of God” it is only because he’s a Muslim – not because he’s not a Christian. There is a difference. In his attempt to be inclusive in his approach he ended apparently offending some Christians. I never said no Christian should feel offended. I could only speak for myself when I say I’m not offended – and I go to church every Sunday.
Let’s hear what you have to say about ‘being inclusive’ in your approach as opposed to ‘being exclusive’. Which sends a better message?
Jesus, son of God or God in human flesh or Mohammad ,God’s last Messenger, Jesus who lives, has not died but will one day return to unite His people, or Jesus who died and rose to Heaven to take his seat on the right hand of God etc if we are to approach any issue one way and not the other, how could there be an inter-faith meeting of any kind since we would be insulting each other’s belief before we even start.
Close to a thousand if not more, Muslim religious leaders throughout the world have recently approached the Vatican asking to have an inter-faith meeting with the Pope. Why should they who regard Jesus as a ‘servant of God’ and not the Son of God want to have anything to do with the representative of God on earth? Should we regard as one big insult for both the groups to be sitting across the table from each other to understand each other and do what is good for the world?
“You need to learn more about the Jesus of islam instead of making such a obfuscating statement.” Tickler
Before you throw more insults, you may want to bear in mind that I am an Elder in the church in my neigborhood.
“The reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world has been widely acknowledged by Christians – the reason being the fact that in Islam you cannot convert out once you’re born a Muslim or once you become a Muslim. Undergrad2”
To some extent, there’s truth in that if you’re born or convert in an “islamic” country. In Malaysia, your race will dictate your religion if you’re a malay without you having any say in it.
But unlike our neighbouring country, Singapore, it’s interesting to find that there are also Malay Christians. Check out these blogs on Malay Christians in Singapore:-
http://1flock1shepherd.blogspot.com/ & http://evan.tedfox.com/
Before you throw more insults,..- undergrad2
There is something wrong with you. That is not an insult but a statement of fact. and I don`t really care whether you are an Elder or a Junior. I do think you should study more on the subject instead of shooting from the hip. I can only assist you with this link:
http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/jesus.html
You are purposely trying to pick a fight. That is not a nice thing to do. So, for this I leave you to your own.
And I stand by what I write.
Dear LKS,
I recall a time when the Selangor State Govt. wanted to ban the usage of the word Allah by non muslims, apparently you brought it up in Parliament that the Sikhs too have that word in their Granth Sahib. One particular reference thru a google search is:
“I observe neither Hindu fasting nor the ritual of the Muslim Ramadan month; Him I serve who at the last shall save. The Lord of universe of the Hindus, Gosain and Allah to me are one; From Hindus and Muslims have I broken free. I perform neither Kaaba pilgrimage nor at bathing spots worship; One sole Lord I serve, and no other. I perform neither the Hindu worship nor the Muslim prayer; To the Sole Formless Lord in my heart I bow. We neither are Hindus nor Muslims; Our body and life belong to the One Supreme Being who alone is both Ram and Allah for us.” (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib, Raga Bhairon pg. 1136)
http://www.sikhs.org/summary.htm
So with the latest developments, I think it would be interesting to ascertain if the Sikh Holy book is also banned? And if all those Gurdwaras should surrender their copies to the Home Ministry?
“…and I don`t really care whether you are an Elder or a Junior. I do think you should study more …” Tickler
For someone who wants to dictate to others who should feel offended and who should not, should it surprise anyone that you are here going on the record as to tell someone that you do not care if he is an Elder or a Junior”. You accuse someone of being insensitive, how sensitive is that statement?
“So with the latest developments, I think it would be interesting to ascertain if the Sikh Holy book is also banned? And if all those Gurdwaras should surrender their copies to the Home Ministry?”
It would not be a bad idea to some.
Let Kit answer that, I have absolute faith in him to be able to do that without `stand ins`.
As for sensitivity, that`s a laugh. The pastor yesterday said that was the problem with the church. I think I have greater respect for Father O.C.Lim. At least he says it as it is instead of `cowering` behind `sensitivity`, like some.
“..cowering behind sensitivity’ Tickler
I’m tickled pink.
..but like I said it would not be a bad idea to some i.e. banning the Sikh Holy Book. And I stand by that too.
Christians (except for Catholics) and Muslims frown on the use of stone idols and images of deities. The UMNO led government has more reason to limit the public display of such stone idols as not in keeping with the image of Malaysia as an Islamic state – going even into the banning of books.
..but like I said it would not be a bad idea to some i.e. banning the Sikh Holy Book. And I stand by that too.-undergrad2
_________________________________________________________
Yes you would. And like I said LKS should answer that. You can go to Parliament and voice your opinion there.
Don’t think undergrad2 ever said that he’s answering on behalf of Kit. He’s just responding to your learned comments.
Thank you
Maybe I should have put that in inverted commas.
in the Quran, Jesus (Prophet Isa) was a servant of God
Is Mullah Dullah implying the Christian God is a servant of his God?
KTK, suggest u leave politics, and go back to your academic life again, U will get more respect there, unless u are concerned about money coming in?? Politics is not for U lah!
Is Tsu Koon ‘Koh’ trying to give a caution statement to Christians?
Or is he trying to collydolly with the Umnoputras before he goes to Federal (for good).
This is very dangerous to imply that Christians should be ‘celebrate-sensitized’ to Islam for what? Christians don’t need a Bhuddist to teach them how to celebrate CHRISTmas in BolehLand.
Merry CHRISTmas to all Malaysians and foreigners.
We have to excuse KTK as he is not a Christian so what he uttered was purely a political statement to cover his own butts. The Catholics currently have to endure the apprehension of whether the Herald’s permit is going to be granted and yet he had the audacity to tell us Catholics (and all Malaysians alike) to respect Islam? We have been respecting Islam for as long as we have lived in this country but somehow I personally feel it is a one-way street. I sure would like to hear KTK saying this during a Hari Raya festival, “Malaysians, while celebrating Hari Raya, must respect other religions in view of the country’s multi-religious make-up”. And you know what is going to happen next? He is going to kena B-B-Q’d by none other than UMNO Youth.
Dear readers.
I refer to some statements on how upsets some Christians are with regards to PM’s speech during christmas day. I am not so sure why they are so upset. PM did not insult Christianity.
To Muslims, Jesus was a mere mortal . He was also a prophet. Muslims and Islam have high regards on him. One chapter of Kuran is named after her mother, Lady Mary. In Islam, she is accorded as “a chosen lady among all nations”.
I do not understand why there are some people in this forum is so upset. Did PM belittle Christianity. No. Did he mock the faith. No. K1980 asked “Did Mullah Dullah say that Christian God is a servant of his God”.
Rest assured, PM or Malays respect the faith although they may differ on status of Jesus. Muslims are reminded in Kuran “not to mock the belief of others the way they do not like their faith on Me(Allah) is ridiculed”.
As for Mr Diaperhead, he may not realize on the construction of 2 big statues in Batu caves recently. UMNO may not encourage building of statues. But it certainly never stops building of such statues. Please do not accuse UMNo of violating the freedom of practising other faiths than Islam in Malaysia.
As for the appeal of Islam, perhaps people are attracted to Islam due to its simplicity. There is no need for intermediary between mere mortal and Allah. In Islam, everybody is born as pure as a white cloth. Nobody in Islam can excommunicate anybody to hell or heaven. A sultan , Caliph, amir, PM are mere leaders. Their authority is temporal. They can not claim to receive divine blessing. It runs in harmony with law of human nature. Sex is allowed. No need to supress sexual desire in order to be close to God.