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Why AG appeared for charging 26 Hindraf supporters but did not appear for Altantunya murder trial?

The personal appearance of the Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Ghani Patail at the Shah Alam Sessions Court yesterday to lay charges against 26 Hindraf supporters for attempted murder of a cop has raised many question.

The first question is why Gani Patail thought it important to appear on an attempted murder charge when he never thought it important to personally handle the high-profile Mongolian Altantunya Shaariibuu murder trial on its 66th day of High Court trial in very same court building in Shah Alam, although the murder trial of the Mongolian woman has far-reaching national and international implications in view of ramifications reaching to the highest government level?

Yesterday, the Shah Alam High Court was told that plastic explosives were placed on three parts of Altantunya Shaariibuu’s body — her head, chest and lower abdomen — before she was blown up when the explosive were detonated simultaneously by using a single detonator connected to all three parts.

Secondly, questions arising from one of disbelief that as many people as 26 people are being charged for the attempted murder of a cop injured in the Batu Caves fracas in connection with the Kuala Lumpur Hindraf demonstration on November 25 , a charge which entailed a maximum 20 years’ jail with fine for the 26 persons.

If the Attorney-General succeeds in his prosecution and in securing maximum sentence, Malaysia will create world history in getting the most number of people sent for life sentence for the attempted murder of a cop — but what a world record!

These troubling thoughts raise the further question as to the real motives of the re-arrest and new charge of attempted murder for 26 people — and whether this is conducive to the larger national objective to de-escalate the tensions caused by the long-standing marginalization of the Malaysian Indians and highlighted by the 30,000-strong Hindraf demonstration on November 25.

Several policemen were hurt in the Hindraf demonstration — including Dadi Abdul Rani, the policeman named in the attempted murder charge of the 26 people, sub-inspector Chew Choon Peng, Sergeant-Major Harjigt Singh and Lance Corporal Razali Redzuan. Many more Hindraf supporters were injured.

Such injuries, whether suffered by policeman or by Hindraf supporters, could and should have been avoided if the police had handled the Hindraf demonstration with professionalism and greater respect for the constitutional rights of Malaysians to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression.

This is why there should be a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Hindraf demonstration, carrying out an objective and professional investigation into the police handling of the Hindraf gathering and the long-standing grievances of the Indian community on their marginalization as full and equal Malaysian citizens, whether in the political, economic, educational, social, cultural or religious sphere.

The Attorney-General should suspend all prosecutions until a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Hindraf demonstration has been set up and come out with its findings. Gani Patail should personally recommend that such a Royal Commission of Inquiry should be set up without any delay.

There is currently a very strange phenomenon in the Barisan Nasional. On Monday, the MIC MP for Cameron Highlands S.K. Devamany let down the Indian community and the Malaysian people when he tendered his regret and apology for saying in Parliament that the 50,000 people at the Hindraf demonstration on Nov. 25 showed the Government’s failure in distributing wealth equally and nation-building.

MIC President and Works Minister, Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu loudly denied that the Malaysian Indians had been marginalized.

But leaders of MCA and Gerakan apparently disagreed with the MIC leaders — as MCA National Vice President and Health Minister, Datuk Chua Soi Lok had gone on public record twice as calling on the government to be responsive to and address the sense of alienation, discrimination and deprivation of the marginalized Indians. A Penang Gerakan Assemblywoman had also expressed similar sentiments about the marginalization of the Malaysian Indians.

The question is why some MCA and Gerakan leaders are prepared to admit that there is serious marginalisation among the Malaysian Indians, which is strenuously denied by the MIC leadership, when h MCA and Gerakan Ministers and leaders are not prepared about the marginalization of the Malaysian Chinese — as they were the most ferocious in attacking Singapore Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew when he made the remark about the marginalization of the the Chinese in Malaysia not so long ago.

Is this solely because MCA and Gerakan leadership are more worried than MIC leaders about the electoral effects of the marginalization of the Malaysian Indians and their frustration when their “cry of desperation” is totally ignored — as there are at least 24 Parliamentary and 38 State Assembly seats in Peninsular Malaysia where Indian voters are more than 10% and can lead to the defeat of Barisan Nasional candidates?

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81 Replies to “Why AG appeared for charging 26 Hindraf supporters but did not appear for Altantunya murder trial?”

  2. You can charged them for attempted murder if you can proof they are the ones, but still are they being provoked to act in this way.

    Now I have being wondering since the Bersih Peaceful Rally, why no one make any charges against the police, fru and the gomen for attempted murder?

    The man with the broken leg, why don’t the lawyer advise him to charge the police, fru and the gomen for attempted murder?

    The thousands who were sprayed with chemical water can also charge the police, fru and the gomen for attempted murder.

    The thousands who are block and ask to return where they come from and not allow to enter KL can sue the gomen for lost and inconveniene.

    Why, why, why we allow the gomen to be above the law all the time?

    50 years is ENOUGH
    Vote For A Change
    Vote For Any Opposition
    Give Them A Chance To Change For A Better Malaysia
    Remember bn Is A Useless Grouping Of Self Serving, Corrupt, Dictator, Power Crazy, Racist, Kris waving, etc, etc type of parties.

  4. Eh Gani is ard town ah? Tot he fled abroad during Altantuya murder trial and hv a jolly good time.

    Maybe Gani will also show his face during those smaller crimes like snatch thieves or pets got kidnapped.

    That is why we hv a bunch of civil servants that gotten their priorities all wrong. 4000 policemen during a peaceful rally but u could hardly find one cop when u needed them the most. Oh ya I forgotten, I hvnt tried the mamak stalls.

  6. The Chinese MPs has also agreed that the Indians are being marginalized WHAT the ….. is WRONG with these damn MIC heads & bodies….gosh….why don’t these ……. walk into one of these poor Indian homes and live there with an Income of what let say RM500 p/m. And see if they can survive with that sort of cash in hand with their daily expenses (i.e. school stationeries, uniforms, groceries, provisions, bus fares, medical necessity & so on).
    And about the FOREIGNERS flooding in here that’s caz the so called EMPLOYERS prefer them. If the Government can impose on simple rules we wont be in this big dilemma would we???? Employers prefer to employ the Foreigners rather than the locals, simply caz of LESS PAY & LESS BENEFITS and MORE MONEY for the EMPLOYERS ONLY (mind you). Cause if you employ a local you atleast gotta pay above RM800.00 per month as their basic salary excluding the OTs. How the heck do they expect locals to work in a factory when you ONLY wanna pay RM400-600 p/m. how are they suppose to pay their bills. A decent room on rent is easily RM300 and please tell those donkeys in the Parliament are they gonna fork out the balance to cover their meals….& other necessity means. (Sorry I always wanted to voice out about the flooding of FOREIGNERS caz directly it is affecting every MALAYSIAN IN EVERY WAY)
    Seriously I am beginning to hate living here, no matter what I dunno why I feel that BN might not win with majority but with cheating here & there with of course the EC’s help they will rule again :) which I cant accept caz from what is going on and what has been going on for the past 15 years of late BN should have LOST long time ago  and this is not by coincident but by TACTICS…..

  7. smeargroo….for your information Gani Patail the AG is not a civil servant but a political post holder. Thus he may be removed by the government in power. An AG can be removed at any time if the powers to be do not like his face.

  10. The gomen should be sued by the 26 persons for wrongful use of force, for abuse of power, and denial of constitutional rights to practise ones religion as provided for and guaranteed in the constttion.

    They gathered at Batu Caves temple to attend the religious festival of Karthikai. Since when is it a crime to attend a religious festival and since when does one need a permit to attend a religious festival? Hindu Sangam has written a protest note on the actions taken on the devotees who were present there.

    So why were they herded into the temple, sprayed with chemicals and tear gassed? Who is doing a cover up here? Polica re the ones who should be in the dock! Not the Indians.

    Secondly, why were the civilians attacked at BAtu Caves temple? Police had a court order to prevent the crowds gathering in front of British High Comm. Did the police mistake Batu Caves for the High Comm?

    I think the police were extremely high handed and used excessive force in handling the devotees at Batu Caves. They should be in teh dock.

    Hence the thousands of Indians present there on 24th Night-25th Morning should be suing the Police, AG, and the Government for reckless endangerment. And violation of constitutional rights.

    Come on lawyers, work on this and counter sue the gomen! Dont be afraid!

  12. This is a clear case of racial and religious persecution in Malaysia, just like in the apartheid regime of SA. With UMNO’s top brass instructions to the police, innocent man, women and children are locked within the gates of the Hindu temple and shot at with tear gas and chemicals. This is an act of human cruelty. UMNO and the police force must be charged with attempted murder of innocent citizens.

  13. The message from The President of Hindu Sangam is pasted below:-

    PRESS RELEASE :Inquiry needed into why innocent devotees affected by police action at Batu Caves Murugan Temple on Sunday, 25th November 2007

    The Malaysia Hindu Sangam calls for an urgent and independent inquiry into the events at Batu Caves in the early hours of Sunday, 25th November 2007. Many people have complained to the Sangam that they were caught up in police action against the HINDRAF Rally when all they were doing was attending a religious ceremony in the Batu Caves temple.

    Saturday night, 24th November 2007 was a special celebration for many Tamil Hindus. It was the night of Karthikai Deepam, a festival of lights of special significance to Tamils. Many celebrate it as a commemoration to Lord Arumugam, also known as Murugan or Karthikeyan, whose 6 faces were united by his mother Goddess Shakthi on the Karthikai Deepam day. Hence, devotees flock to the temples devoted to Lord Muruga that night and one such temple is of course the world famous Batu Caves temple in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

    Many devotees, having celebrated the festival, were spending the night in the Temple grounds before leaving for home the next day. Imagine their shock when in the wee hours of the morning, they were greeted by tear gas and water cannon and by a massive police presence alleging they were involved in an illegal assembly.

    An urgent and independent inquiry must immediately be done to investigate how innocent devotees gathered within a place of worship were subjected to tear gas and chemical laced water cannon. The Hindu Sangam also calls on the Public Prosecutor to withdraw all charges against the devotees at the temple. Gathering at a temple for a religious ceremony cannot be deemed an illegal assembly under any circumstances.

    Yours in service

    Datuk A Vaithilingam PJN SSA AMN ASA PJK
    President
    Malaysian Hindu Sangam

  14. LKS YOU HAVE MY VOTE.

    The truth is minorities are prosecuted in every aspect of life in this country. I still remember not being admitted into the Boys Scouts in my primary school because of quota. hahaha what a joke!!!!!!!!!

  15. Its been a while everyone know the competence or rather the lack of it of this AG guy. Now he’s turning into a big joke. I ask him to look at the people’s faces that he meets daily. These people have many questions to ask but would rather not knowing his proclivity.

    I hope he can walk with his head held up after the decision on Pu Batu Putih. Or will it be god’s will again.

  16. There is no way the prosecution, with or without the AGs presence , can win the case. It’s an impossible dream and task to prove the charge.
    It is more of an attempt to intimidate and humiliate the Indians. That they better shut up and accept their status as an officially marginalized community.
    How on earth can 26 unarmed men attempt to murder ONE cop who is probably armed, wearing a bullet-proof vest and helmet.
    If he was not well protected, then it was negligence on his part.
    This a naked exhibition and abuse of POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. 26 unarmed men against hundreds of police, fru, rela etc! I guess it wont stand in any respectable courtroom, but in a country where the CJ’s position and titles can be negotiated for, stranger things can happen!

  20. 26 people attempt to murder one victim????
    Mind boggling! AG, I don’t know how to describe your intelligence !
    Hoi! If 26 people had the intention to kill only one person, the victim would disappear in thin air.
    They need not use any weapon. This is how it could be done. Each one just hold a portion of the victim body and pull, he would have died an instant death.
    [deleted]
    Hey!! Not attempted murder by 26 people!!!

  21. Hindu Sangam can and should initiate a class action or Representative Action against the Police Force and the Government. There are only three requirement to begin such an action. a) the plaintiff and those represented by him/her have a common interest (they do ..they were there by virtue of Kartigai festival) b) they have a common grievance ( they were fired by volleys of tear gas and chemically laces water cannons) c) the relief sought is beneficial to all ( all those gathered as well as those now charged)
    How about it ?

  22. When Khairy led a group of youths to demonstrate in KLCC when Condoleeza Rice visited KL,no complain on lost of business in KLCC,no damage of property complains,no report in TV/Radio,Umno Controlled newspapers on traffic problem around KLCC,no tear gas,no chemically treated water canon,road blocks & IMPORTANTLY NO NEED FOR POLICE PERMIT.hOWEVER THEY RECEIVED POLICE ESCORT.IGP GOT NO BALLS.

    Hishamuddin can show Kris & wow to bath with blood.that is a good example for students in malaysia but taking part in peaceful march is wrong for teachers & students.Action will be taken.

    This is not MAINKAN SENTIMEN PERKAUMAN BECAUSE DONE BY SONS OF SOIL.

    WHY NO ACTION FROM PM .SUCH HYPOCRATES.

  26. It’s all a total farce- no ways can you charge 26 people for attempting to murder a policemen, assaulting yes, b oleh lah, but for attempted murder, where’s the proof? So, mana boleh lah! The AG’s also a doughnuthead!

  27. “Several policemen were hurt in the Hindraf demonstration – including Dadi Abdul Rani, the policeman named in the attempted murder charge of the 26 people, sub-inspector Chew Choon Peng, Sergeant-Major Harjigt Singh and Lance Corporal Razali Redzuan. Many more Hindraf supporters were injured…” KIT

    It is not as absurd as it is made to sound.

    It all depends on how the charges have been framed. Charges have been badly framed because time is not on their side since the AG has other thoughts in his mind – and not just issues of law and order or public safety.

    If you throw bricks into a crowd reckless as to who gets hurt and how severe the injuries may be, there is a case for assault with intent to cause grievous bodily harm. All the Prosecution has to do is show the injuries caused by those bricks thrown into the crowd suffered by persons who were in the crowd and show photographs of the accused throwing the bricks at the crowed to make up a prima facie case against those accused.

    Don’t know what our Penal Code says but in common law countries those accused are prima facie liable for common law offences ranging from battery to assault – various degrees of assault ranging from simple assault to aggravated assault – and property crimes. As to the charge of attempted murder, the AG should be censored. The reason is clearly politically motivated. Sometimes the punishment is in the charging and not in the finding of guilt. Once set for trial there would be the usual pre-trial motions and discovery etc. and this takes time. Meanwhile there is the issue of incarceration while waiting for trial. Bail set at $10k appears excessive to some and far exceeding the gravity of the crime but when you include attempted murder among the charges then $10k does not appear that excessive. With a judge who is prosecution minded, chances are the charges are likely to stick. Whether they would be found guilty after a protracted trial is another matter.

  28. Jeffrey QC,

    Could the demonstrators file a civil suit for damages against the Police for injuries some of them suffered?

    Could a bystander injured while watching the demonstrations file a similar lawsuit?

    Could a housewife while carrying out her chores, overcome by gas or hit by a loose tear gas cannister file a law suit against the Police?

    Could an athma suffering traffic policeman overcome by the chemical laced tear gas sue his employer for negligence?

    Could you while watching events unfold on TV and then suffer a heart attack, file a lawsuit against the government for negligence?

  30. For your information Altantunya’s case is CLOSED and verdicts are passed on..just that the publics are not informed la…haiyo..this is M’sia..n M’sia Boleh wat ..so whats the point for AG to be there?
    All accused and found NOT GUILTY! Case dismissed! Dont talk abt it anymore or else u end up… ISA or charged for attempted to provoke! sec 212/16..taman bunga shah alam!

  32. A message to Umno supporters
    Leo Antony
    Dec 5, 07 3:32pm Adjust font size:

    What happened on Nov 25 was simply a plea by the marginalised Malaysian Indians, for whom no one else wants to speak up or fight for. Most of the 30,000-odd Indians who rallied have been voting for Barisan Nasional since independence.

    The present government needed only to listen to what they had to say. They were not under any opposition influence. Only desperados such as Anwar Ibrahim would want to capitalise on it, as was the case here.

    Why would poor folks take such pains and risk injuries to join a banned rally? People like Mohd Nazri Abdul Aziz, the minister in denial, knowingly misrepresenting the facts and used foul language on people who are crying for help. How can this guy be trusted to govern fairly? Who appointed him guardian of two million Indians in Malaysia? He is simply saying that the winner at the national elections takes all? Is that his definition of democracy?

    If Pak Lah had met up with the group of people who were rallying, it would have given the government and BN much credibility. The government would have been the hero of the day. But it has lost credibility now. The 30,000 counts for much more on election day, certainly with people like Nazri and Najib responding the way they did.

    Leaders should listen instead of telling poor, frustrated and marginalised folk to shut up or get out. Asking them to take their problems to the MIC is no solution. If MIC had listened and if the government had heard through them, this rally would not have happened. Indians know very well that nothing would happen if they went through MIC.

    Let us not keep on putting wool over Indians’ eyes. They have very little left. Even their places of worship are being demolished unceremoniously. Isn’t that an insensitive act by the government? Are rallies against such “insensitivities” on the part of a government they had elected considered insensitive?

    Umno is drunk with their brand of power and patronage politics. They are freely using the Malay masses with the ‘Ketuanan Melayu’, New Economic Policy and threats of a repeat of May 13 to appeal to their emotions. The keris act was one such case. No amount of subsequent explanations can undo that.

    In 2006, a couple of Umno delegates shouted from the floor, asking when the Umno Youth president was going to use the keris. But no leaders at the podium corrected them. The explanations only came after the assembly, after much public outcry.

    One gets the feeling that when Umno/Malays are alone and on public television, they are as insensitive as can be. One can imagine what they say in private. That is how powerful they feel. They have redrawn electoral boundaries to maintain Umno in power even with less than 50 percent popular electoral votes.

    Now they even want to extend the services of the Election Commission chief, who is due to retire at the end of the month, by amending the Constitution which will enable the executive to bypass the Agong. Why such acts for sake of one man? Is he so dispensable to Umno?

    Umno has the apparatus at the grassroots level to stir up trouble and conduct another coup, as was the case during May 13, but this time to dethrone Pak Lah and revert to the situation of the late 60s and early 70s where Umno’s young turks will have tighter control and get rid of any dissent.

    They have all the government machinery, which is dominated by a single ethnic community, to impose everything they want to do. The police, judiciary and executive have all been corrupted at the highest levels. These people will have no choice but to comply, failing which their past deeds will be used against them.

    Even in light of a video clip implicating a top judge in corrupt practices, the government ignores the potential of some element of truth in it and proceeds to extend his service – given the fact that VK Lingam’s brother had made a police report as early as March 2007, which the authorities if not the prime minister surely knew about.

    Indeed, all the country’s current ills – from education, unemployable graduates, corrupt civil service, judiciary and police – are a product of the Mahathir Mohamad era. The PM has not delivered on his 2004 election pledge. My only guess is that he is just a pawn of the hidden powers. He appears powerless. If he acts, he will potentially be dethroned.

    On Nov 25, the government had no intention to listen, as it is supposed to do. Mahatma Gandhi’s banners were displayed to show that this was a peaceful expression of their concerns. Where and to whom will these people go if rallying is not an option? They have real problems. Do you want them to become violent with their backs against the wall? It does not hurt anyone to listen.

    It is the government that should be afraid of the people, not the other way around as seems to be the case now. The government loses billions of ringgit on many failed projects and corruption. The culprits, including some in the government and at ministerial levels, are still free to do what they want.

    This curse of corruption occurring unabatedly at all levels of the executive, enforcement and judiciary can only mean that we have a government that is so strongly entrenched in power with the help of clever electoral boundaries that they have no fear to be voted out.

    Is this government “a government of the people” or is it “a government of the powers-that-be behind Umno?” It is just a matter of time before the Malay masses would find this out for themselves. We can only hope and pray that by that time, the state of the country’s development, economy, judiciary and enforcement has not been set back many decades.

    We appeal to Umno supporters, it is in your own interest to stop the moral rot in the party and in the government. It is in your interest to provide justice to all Malaysians especially the long-marginalised sectors

  39. RajaJohn

    “For your information Altantunya’s case is CLOSED and verdicts are passed ..”

    Are you serious? I expected a “not guilty” verdict for only one of the three accused. No report anywhere??

    I would like very much to find out the reasoning by the trial judge to see how he arrived at the “Not guilty” verdict, and whether there would be an appeal.

  40. “The suspects, detained by police in Batu Caves on Nov 25, claimed trial to various charges including taking part in an illegal assembly and causing damage to public property during the tense proceedings tinged with racial overtones. ” THE STAR

    There is no way those accused of taking part in an illegal assembly could escape – a non-issue. What does the Penal Code say as to sentence – fine or/and jail?

    We need the help of the blog’s legal analyst here!

  41. Firstly, how can it be an illegal assembly if they were gathered at a temple to attend a religious festival?

    Secondly, if the police first herds you into Batu caves area, then locks the gates, and then shoots tear gas at you, who is the provocator? And if they keep doing it what steps do you take to defend yourself? Where are pictures of the damage done? The gates are all still in order.

    Did the police ask the crowd to disperse? Is this documented? Was the message given in Malay, English and Tamil? The crowd is mainly Indian so some may need to be informed in Tamil.

    The fact that the victims used stones to throw at the police shows that they were totally unarmed and were a peaceful crowd. The police used excessive force and are guilty and should compensate the victims that were herded into Batu Caves.

    Was correct procedure used in deploying the tear gas. IS firing into the air an acceptable practise as some people could get injured.

    Is spraying chemical laced water cannons directly on a crowd the normal procedure or were sub-human methods employed? Is the police then guilty of brutality?

  42. Many were arrested and some released maybe becos they were the culprits planted by umno to instigate. Then after police sapu all the rowdy fellas they release them back after getting orders from the top. Can ah my theory? Otherwise in a chaotic situation, how can the police pinpoint as to who did what? Without proper evidence it will be ur word against mine. Can we trust what the police say now ah?

  45. “The fact that the victims used stones to throw at the police shows that they were totally unarmed and were a peaceful crowd. ” lakshy

    No. It shows that the stone throwers must have known that their stones would cause injuries to others, that they were reckless as to who among these others might get injured.

    So if Lance Corporal Ahmad or/and news reporter Miss Sharon suffered injuries, the stone throwers are liable for battery. But battery against whom, and who threw which stone are questions that are not easily answered without corroboration from eye witnesses.

  47. The AG is a real Chicken! He only wants to deal with this easy to handle case where he can put his max weight on this Hindraf case to push (bully) for the heaviest sentences. Also, he hope to put fears in the mind of those contemplating future assembly or protest.
    Who is he working for? The rakyat? Affirmative NO! This AG is FXYZ incompetent. A good example of the BN Gomen’s tool of political expediency.
    Life sentence for treatening the life of a Cop! Tiotally rubbish. What about those who died in jail? The Cops going to be charged for that? What about Anwar Ibrahim whose life was also threatened by the Chief Cop himself?
    This law of the land called Malaysia is absurd, bullying & ruthless.

  50. Still remember the AG’s ‘class act’ during the trial of the century indicting Anwar Ibrahim successfully? The AG will always at his ‘best’ whenever the Government needed his act but the AG will despatched a legions of underskilled prosecuters deisigned to lose a case-the Altantuya’s murder trial, apparently to date the accused, both the policemen charged for murder managed to jinked out of most evidences exhibited against them and the alleged abetter/ hirer, Abdul Razak Baginda, not even a snippets of allegations are hurled against him by the 2 accused which reflects his joviality inside and outside the courthouse. And to even suggest anyone would go for any higher-ups, they would be imagining it in ‘Alice Wonderland’.

  52. I have just read Raja Petra’s article: http://www.malaysia-today.net/nuc2006/index.php?itemid=833

    I would agree with him. There is more than meets the eye. We have to share this with a lot of our friends, muslims and non-muslims.

    What kind of psychology game play the government is doing on us. This is herd mentality. Social psychology at play.

    If we play to their game plan – all will be lost. All of us shall be ending up fighting each other and mistrust each other.

  53. “This is a clear case of racial and religious persecution in Malaysia, just like in the apartheid regime of SA” negarawan

    FYI, South Africa has abolished all apartheid legislation in 1991. Nelson Mandela became South Africa’s first black president on 10 May 1994.
    Malaysia is the only remaining country in the world that has an apartheid government. The NEP is a de facto apartheid policy under a veiled name.

  54. “There are such things as bad laws – this becomes obvious after a while when put to the test by unexpected events.”

    There is only poorly drafted legislation – rather than bad law.

    Legislation cannot take into consideration all contigencies which oftentimes cannot be predicted or predicted with precision. When the courts interpret the law and the result turns out convoluted and unintended by the legislators, the legislation goes back to the legislative body for amendment.

    When interpreting the law judges take into consideration ‘intent’ of Parliament when it passed the particular legislation but in cases when ‘intent’ of Parliament is not as obvious as one would have wished, or gives rise to conflicting interpetations, Parliament will have to amend it. Sometimes it is the language of the law that needs tuning.

    If a law is bad it has to be repealed. Bad law cannot be amended.

    I believe you are referring to poorly drafted legislation rather than the law itself.

    The problem facing the country is not the absence or lack of any particular law or laws, but the will to see the law enforced.

  55. It takes a good legislator to pass laws without which a civil society cannot exist. It takes the perfect draftsman to be able to draft laws taking into account all foreseeable circumstances. It takes a courageous judge to admit the law is flawed.

  57. Don’t know the facts of what happened on Sunday 25th Nov in Batu Caves except hearsay acount.

    However an unusually large crowd might have have assembled at Batu Caves Murugan Temple the night before. “Unusually large ” means (say) twice more than the usual numbers experienced in such religious celebrations.

    It leads to inference that:-

    (a) Some were there solely to celebrate religious festivities unassociated with Hindraf’s call to assemble;
    (b) Some probably for both reasons to celebrate religious festivities as well as participate in Hindraf’s assembly;
    (c) Maybe some mainly as a gathering point to participate in the assembly.

    The fact is you’d never know who was who mingled together and what were motives. However those under (a) were completely innocent of illegal assembly. I would say if one could read others minds whether they belonged to (a)(b) or (c ), then for so long as they were within temple precincts, it must be presumed all were innocent of intention to participate in Hindraf’s assembly.

    Situation changed once they assembled outside the temple and didn’t go their own way.

    According to account of RPK (MalaysiaToday) (I don’t know true or not)“at 4.00am, when the Indians tried to start their march, they were pushed back into the temple grounds and the gates locked”. When you people came out and assembled (rather than go different ways) in large numbers outside the temple at 4 am in the morning, I would say that it is reasonable inference of participation in Hindraf’s rally – which at that point of time and place would be an illegal asembly (in sense no permit) and defence under (a) becomes implausible….

    The police under these circumstances had the right to disperse such an assembly by use of reasonable force if their calls to disperse were not heeded. (What is reasonable force, and whether using chemical laced water canons and canisters of tear gas is such or not such is a matter of opinion which I don’t think it is necessary to express in context of the real issues in contention).

    Had the stones or rocks been thrown by persons in such an assembly at FRUs and police injuring them, these persons singly or in concert throwing such objects, will – I suppose – be guilty of committing offence of grievous hurt or even aggravated battery/assault on law enforecement personel.

    It is no defence to say that it was a response to the police were shooting water canons and tear gas when the latter acts were within “reasonable force” to stop and disperse an illegal assembly.

    To say that it was an attempt to murder, that I think is a trifle far fetched. Such a charge was formulated and the AG is personally prosecuting the case to deliver the signal that the government would tolerate no such behaviour (in the demonstrations to come) and intend to use the 26 as deterrent to prove the point.

    Now the situation and conclusions would radically change in another scenario : ie when massive show of police force had pushed all illegal assemblers back into the temple precincts and grounds and the gates were locked and people trapped inside.

    What should the FRUs/police do? I would say nothing. They had done their job. They had stopped an illegal assembly.

    Even if they had failed to disperse the crowd, they were contained with the assembly confined within the temple grounds.

    In such a case (here again if RPK’s account were to be believed) if the police (as alleged) shot into the temple grounds “with volley after volley of tear gas until they ran out of stock, with new supplies were brought in”, this would, I imagine, constitute unlawful police brutality.

    It was hardly a necesary act to contain a problem – tyhe illegal asembly was already prevented from proceeding – it was an act to punish people trapped within a confined area because they had intended to participate in Hindraf’s rally.

    That the area is a temple ground, made these acts (to devotees) sacrilegious, and to other faithfuls, tantamount descrecrating a place of worship.

    Had the fracas (rock and stone throwing) occurred within the temple precincts – or even if the rock throwers were within and law enforcement personel were outside (separated by gate), such offence of rock throwing might arguably be excused or mitigated substantially as a kind of self defence against unlawful assault and punishment of a group of people trapped within temple grounds.

    Never mind this group had originally intended to participate in an illegal asembly but they were no more now, the assembly had been stopped, they were confined in an area together with other innocent bystanders within the precincts whose presence within might entirely be for worship, having nothing to do with the assembly. Yes I think those locked in within the temple grounds, injured by police action, could try redress by civil suit under these circumstances.

    This would not extend to those ‘heroes’ who climbed the gates, scaled the walls to go outside to purposely battle the police with rocks and stones in retaliation for the police actions.

  58. Sorry typo error: –

    ….”I would say EVEN if one could read others minds whether they belonged to (a)(b) or (c )…”

    …”When people (NOT “you” people) came out and assembled (rather than go different ways) in large numbers outside the temple at 4 am in the morning”….

  59. The above proceeds on the assumption that it would be the role of law enforcement personel to use reasonable force to stop or disperse an illegal assembly – and that it is not the proper role of law enforcement personel to punish would-be assemblers (mixed with innocent people) confined within an area locked after the assembly had been stopped and otherwise prevented.

    Of course law enforcement’s excuse is that if they don’t punish this crowd by ‘softening’ them wityh chemical laced spray and tear gas, this crowd would unlock the gates and so come out to assemble again in defiance of police orders.

  60. Jeffrey QC,

    The question to ask is when did the devotees at the temple to celebrate a religious event stop being devotees there for the event, and when did they become active participants of an illegal assembly.

    This reminds me of what my lecturer said about the crime of rape. You do not need to withdraw (first penetration was with consent) and attempt a fresh penetration (without consent) before it could be called ‘rape’.

    There were people who gathered at the temple to attend a religious event. Many among them later became participants to an illegal assembly. The police does not need to know the exact time i.e. at the gates or outside the gates to deem them participants of an illegal assembly.

    It appears that they were pushed back into the temple ground because it was thought easier to control the crowd from the other side of the temple gates. However, the firing of tear gas into the compound didn’t seem necessary for that purpose.

    The FRU were doing their duty at crowd control the way they were trained to do.

    Those caught throwing stones at the police resulting in physcial injuries to them woud be prima facie liable for battery and assault with intent to cause grevious bodily harm. Attempted murder? Can you kill someone with a stone thrown from a distance? It goes to intent to kill (the mens rea element of the offence of murder) which has to be proved.

    Like I said earlier, the prosecutor frames these charges in the alternative as they are allowed to do. Finding them guilty of the offences they were charged with is something else. But with attempted murder included, the bail of $10k is not unreasonably high. The punishment is in the incarceration pending trial for being unable to put up bail.

  61. “This would not extend to those ‘heroes’ who climbed the gates, scaled the walls to go outside to purposely battle the police with rocks and stones in retaliation for the police actions.” Jeffery

    Wow!! Was that what happened?

  63. This AG joker was stripped naked at the ICJ over the Batu Putih by the Singaporeans.Looks like typical bolehland attitude ,never bother to do research and take short cut the easy way out.By the way what is his son doing in the Hague ?Free holiday?

  65. This is clearly a case of intimidation and selective prosecution. They can’t charge the hardcore protestors with illegal assembly or causing public mischief or failing to disperse in accordance with police instructions. These charges would probably result in a RM100 fine for each protestor, or a RM200 bail if any protestor wishes to contest the charge. No, they have to use a much more severe charge so that it becomes a non-bailable offence or an offence that requires really hefty bail amounts. That way, they keep the protestors behind bars even in the knowledge that the prosecution can never prove the charges against the protestors.

    The AG is taking a personal interest because this has shaken the entire foundation of UMNO. The Altantuya case is just a minor irritant that will eventually go away with shoddy prosecution.

  66. I agree with a writer here that the protestors should all file a suit against the government for whatever grounds that you can think of – failure to allow access to a place of worship, criminal intimidation, causing bodily harm, desecration of a place of worship, etc etc.

  67. Now it appears that the court has denied bail “due to the severity of the charges” involved. It is very clear that this is the objective of the government from the outset. It sends a simple message to you and I: You can protest all you want, but we can also charge you with some severe crimes which are enough to deny you bail. In a first world country, there will be huge public outcry if the courts can’t see through the frivolity of the government charges. In Bolehland, where the police, the courts, the prosecution and the mainstream media are all extensions of the government, we protest at our own risks. We protest and they trump up the charges and there is literally nothing that we can do.

    The only way now is for 500,000 of us to be prepared to go to jail for trumped-up charges and see if there are enough jails to hold us.

  68. the different is then again…the Mongalia case defender is Malay…while the Hindraf is Indian…so kena tunjuk Ketuanan Melayu for you folk out there la…Cabar Malays, give you 20 yrs sentences to jail…deal or no deal…?

  70. Hei, problem lah! 500,000 people, 20 years, food n accomaodation n jaga them properly, berapa lah, Ah.. 1 day 1 people, RM30, then RM30 X 365 X 20 X 500,000 = RM 109,500 million (kurang kurang lah), like that no money for ‘mega project lah’ !

  71. why is all this happening? I am ashamed to say that our court is so prejudiced. Instead of sending those innocent people who want justice peacefully, what about rapists and real crime committers?

  72. Just see, 26 persons (empty hand) pick up whatever stones inside the temple, throw at a polis man (well arm) standing among at least 200 FRU, Rela etc, may be 30 ft away. with intend to murder, (eh, why we use this way to murder lah! should have a better way to murder a person lah)
    1. size of stones,
    2. 26 persons, never trained to aim n throw stone before
    3. that one polis man, probably, well arm, n well protected by shield n his 200 well arm colleagues.
    Eh, I not clever enaf lah, confuse lah! why wan to murder a person this way lah ! maybe we cipta another feat for “Guiness Book of Record”. We all BOLEH mah!

  73. Long time ago when i was abroad was very proud with my country.But with todays scenario wondering where this country goin to end with this malay supremacy attitude.Charging 26 of them under attempted murder is blatant power abuse.Wht abt the FRU shooting tear gas and water canon to the crowd in the temple premises?This gov is really testing the patience of the indians,MY VOTE WILL BE FOR OPPOSITIONS THIS ELECTION.

  74. THE MAKING OF A “THEM AND US CULTRURE” IN MALAYSIA.

    The charge of attempted murder against the26 hindraf demonstrators is no or no more than the BN’s of government resources to harass them.

    Prolonging the day’s trial for 9 hours is so transparent a harassment

    The instructions to harass must have come from very high up. While they cannot destroy the spirit of Hindraf, they use these procedures to punish them. No allowing bail is just another instance. Just imagine, the international free press will have a hey day in reporting this.

    That the instructions to harass these Hindraf supporters must have come from the top. Having Attorney-General Abdul Gani Patail 5o prosecute is so blatantly using the weight of the Chambers to punish. And the punishment are meted out administratively without a single shred of evidence tendered in court. Clearly the instruction must be to use all and every mean to harass including\ filing for a judicial review of he discharge of he three lawyers in Klang.

    Do these people not know that this type of crude tactics only harden the resolve of the people. History has shown that the will of the people can be suppressed but not destroyed. More importantly, these developments lead to the polarisation of the people. They can only be damning to the BN’s chances in the next election. When the results are out, they will learn what they have done. ere is now a Them and Us Culture which is developing exponentially in Malaysia. Those who support hindraf belongs to the US camp and those who are speaking against free speech and the freedom of assembly.

    We Malaysians not that dumb those who are appointed to uphold justice in this country are now lackeys in the punishment of accused who are guilty before they are properly tried.

    In the past, the communists were blamed for all things wrong. Now this clutch blame device is no longer available, they blame it on the oppositions. If the oppositions can orchestrate this country-wide boiling discontent, they will have no problem winning the next general election.

    What’s next?? Teh FRU swooping on a chuerg gathering on the ground that they were practising apostasy contrary to the tenets of an ISLAMIC COUNTRY.

  75. “I agree with a writer here that the protestors should all file a suit against the government for whatever grounds that you can think of – failure to allow access to a place of worship, criminal intimidation, causing bodily harm, desecration of a place of worship, etc etc.” GODFATHER

    Before you file any lawsuit against the other party, there must first be a cause of action, then prima facie evidence of the the wrong committed e.g. breach of constitutional right or rights if it involves the Constitution, or unlawful use of force resulting in physical injuries.

    “These charges would probably result in a RM100 fine for each protestor, or a RM200 bail if any protestor wishes to contest the charge. No, they have to use a much more severe charge so that it becomes a non-bailable offence or an offence that requires really hefty bail amounts. That way, they keep the protestors behind bars…”

    The judge will need to rule as to the charges whether some of them are frivolous and vexatious and strike these out. Will the judge do so and strike the ‘attempted murder’ charge out? I don’t think so.

  76. INTINIMATION – CHARRGING HIDNRAF FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER: THE Making of a Them and Us Culture in Malaysia.

    Besides the question of the prosecution’s ability [which is doubted as nothing can come out of sheer fabrications] to prove beyond reasonable doubt that these 31 charged harboured the intention to murder, most non-dumb Malaysians would dismiss this wild and unsubstantiated step of a desperate BN who finds that the traditional methods are not sufficient to quell the boiling cauldron of discontent. The Bar Council demonstrations, BERSIH and Hindraf are not racial in nature . It is a vociferous cry of damnation by the public of injustices after 50 years of merdeka

    What would common law lawmakers around the world think of this ludicrous ‘Instant Charge’. The lawmakers from other common law jurisdictions would probably carefully assemble their situation, assemble the evidence and documents and after due consideration frame the charge. This charge of attempted murder demonstrate BN’s failing and desperate and sad stance of containing the boiling cauldron of discontent that is rocking the contrary. Does the AG not learn that the governrntal agencies will not be that pliant and echo the wishes of of the AG. The Klang court throwing out the sedition charges makes this abundantly clear. Yet this is not clear for the AG and yet again more of its resources are diverted to Hindraf in its process fo intimation bdy the filing of a judicial review. What aboutt the files concerning offences against the public outstanding in the AG chambers. They are put on hold while the AG goes on a holy crusade to silence Malaysians.

    The charge of attempted murder against the 31 Hindraf demonstrators is no more than the BN’s use of governmental resources [intended fro the general public to harass them. It is the crudest form of intimation. When the powers that be find that charging these demonstrators for unlawful assembly, does not work. They talk of the ISA – a perennial favorite instrument for repression of the Malaysians first practised by the British and now adopted gratefully by BN to intimate the public. Then there is talk of the Police investigating the possible sedition in blog postings [Sun 6 Dec]. There is then the laughable suggestion that international terrorist groups are supporting Hindraf..

    BUSH WRING HIS HAND WITH GLEE –D DDIARAQ WMP AND IRAN BOMB. SAME VEIN

    Prolonging the day’s trial for 9 hours is so transparent a harassment and revulse all Malaysians

    The instructions to harass must have come from very high up. While they cannot destroy the spirit of Hindraf, they use these procedures to punish them. No allowing bail is just another instance. Just imagine, the international free press will have a hey day in reporting this.

    That the instructions to harass these Hindraf supporters must have come from the top. Having Attorney-General Abdul Gani Patail 5o prosecute is so blatantly using the weight of the Chambers to punish. And the punishment are meted out administratively without a single shred of evidence tendered in court. Clearly the instruction must be to use all and every mean to harass including\ filing for a judicial review of he discharge of he three lawyers in Klang.

    Do these people not know that this type of crude tactics only harden the resolve of the people. History has shown that the will of the people can be suppressed but not destroyed. More importantly, these developments lead to the polarisation of the people. They can only be damning to the BN’s chances in the next election. When the results are out, they will learn what they have done. ere is now a Them and Us Culture which developing exponentially in Malaysia. Those who support hindraf belongs to the US camp and those who are speaking against free speech and the freedom of assembly in the THEM camp.

    We Malaysians not that dumb to see that those who are appointed to uphold justice in this country are exploited for a political reason and are mere pawn pieces in the punishment of accused who are guilty before they are properly tried.

    In the past, the communists were blamed for all things wrong. Now this clutch blame device is no longer available, they blame it on the oppositions. If the oppositions can orchestrate this country-wide boiling discontent, they will have no problem winning the next general election. We Malaysians are not THAT DUMB.

    Never in the history of Malaysia during election year has the ruling party thrown down the gauntlet and challenge the Malaysians public to take up the cudgels on behalf of the dispossessed and repressed section of society. Now there is the IGP’s suggestion a la Bush [ Star 6 dec] that the International terrorists support Hindraf. This will make Bush, that inventor of the phantom weapons of mass destruction [WMD]wring his hand in glee. Blame t on Al Qaeda and all your problems are resolved. Just point your finger and the situation magically resolve itself. Where is the hard fact that support the IGP’s preposterous suggestion. Did he get any tip off from the CIA or the Interpol. The police, notorious for their corruption dd[ endorsed by the BN] and inefficiency has suddenly come up with these suggestions to prepare public opinion when the authority use the ISA to support the legitimate voice of the people.

  77. “There is then the laughable suggestion that international terrorist groups are supporting Hindraf..”

    It is not so laughable when you have a HINDRAF leader telling audience overseas that he cannot rule out violence by HINDRAF supporters, and looks to monks in Myanmar as role models! I am not saying those monks are terrorists.

    But when you have an Indian professor and an influential Indian columnist with a leading newspaper in India quoted as saying that “The dirt-poor, seething Malaysian Tamils…. are ideal recruiting material for a local variant of the LTTE” (an organization labeled as “terrorist” by the U.S.) it ceases to be a laughing matter!

  78. Hi Boss

    Altantunyaâ case AG cannot attend because the local and the world knows the true story.

    2nd from my friend

    Denison Jayasooria talks big that the goverment has done alot for
    indians. Todate all these government have been only claiming
    that goverment has done alot for indians. Well if they have why dont
    you fools give us a breakdown on the following and stop talking
    through the wrong head

    1. how many indians have been given government scholarships
    2. how many indian students have been given places in universities
    3. how many hindu temples have been given goverment grant or land
    and amount of money to build
    4. how many estates have been upgraded
    5. how many extreme poor indians receive welfare and how much each
    family receives
    6. how many indians hold senior positions in goverment departments
    7. how many indians are employed by the goverment
    8. how many indian companies are given goverment contracts

    There are many more questions but lets start with those mentioned
    above are they are the most crucial in the uplifting of the status
    of indians.

    If you can provide the details, then we can see the truth, if you
    cant just keep your mouth shut and dont tell lies for your own
    selfish benefit. Shame on you.
    You are a disgrace to your own people. With you,
    the indian community does not need any enemies.

    The facts speaks for itself. It is not enough to claim things, proof
    it with facts and figures.

    My friend cannot scold him pocket sudah penoh atau remote control talk

  79. NOT DUMB M’SAN SAYS:

    “The Bar Council demonstrations, BERSIH and Hindraf are not racial in nature”

    But I thought the HINDRAF demonstrators are all Tamil Indians??? Is there a white Tamil?

  80. “There are such things as bad laws – this becomes obvious after a while when put to the test by unexpected events.”

    There is only poorly drafted legislation – rather than bad law.

    In Malaysia, we see laws drafted, enforced, manipulated and interpreted to the self interest of certain parties to achieve their devious goals. Then they become bad, bad laws.
    One doesn’t have to go to law schools to understand that.
    Even our lawyers in the know have to take that March to Putrajaya, what does that mean??

  81. I simply don’t understand why so many witnesses were required for the Altantunya case. Actually, we only need to examine two key witnesses, i.e. the policewoman who escorted the deceased and the guy in charge of the ammunition department.

    The policewoman had been with the deceased and was responsible for delivering her in court. She should very well know what was done to the deceased before her body was blown up. Get the truth from her!!!!

    The guy in charge of the ammunition department should keep proper records of all ammunition coming in and going out and by just giving the lame excuse of “I was careless” in court was simply an irresponsible answer. The explosive used to blow up the body was not common and seldom used. So get the records straight, how much was there before any purchase was made, how much has been taken out and by whom and how much is the balance. This is simple costing and the guy in charge of the ammunition department should be able to provide such information. That would have concluded the case but they have taken so much time and called so many witnesses just to set up a smoke screen.

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