Posted on by Kit

Turks do not want Turkey to be another Malaysia turning into an Islamic state

On Friday, two journalists from Turkey biggest-circulation newspaper Hurriyet interviewed me.

I was taken aback when they told me that their prime interest was how Turkey could learn from the mistakes of Malaysia as there is great concern among the Turks of Turkey becoming another Malaysia down the road of an Islamic state.

They wanted to know what were the major and significant events which marked Malaysia turning from its original commitment towards a secular state towards an Islamic state.

Later on the same day, I received an email from a Malaysian enclosing a Turkish media report of Turkish President Gul allaying Turkish fears of Turkey turning into another Malaysia and becoming an Islamic state.

Entitled “Turkey would never turn into another Malaysia”, President Gul answered the question of those who fear Turkey will become a country like Malaysia during his first official trip to Northern Cyprus by responding: “Turkey is negotiating with the EU for full membership. If there are people who still have worries on the scarf issue, then we should fear those people instead.” (SABAH Newspaper)

Malaysians should be aware that Malaysia is already regarded as an example which Turkey must avoid becoming — a nation which deviated from its secular origins and moving headlong towards an Islamic state.

It should be a wake-up call for all Malaysians who hold dear the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia is a multi-religious secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state.

Let the debate and disquiet among Turks that Turkey could become another Malaysia moving down the road of an Islamic state be a salutary reminder to Malaysians how the world outside is seeing our country and the urgent need for all Malaysians to stay true and strong to the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia is a multi-religious secular nation with Islam as official religion but not an Islamic state.

52 Replies to “Turks do not want Turkey to be another Malaysia turning into an Islamic state”

  1. Our P.M visited Turkey recently and what he saw about the country and its practice of secularism should be an eye opener for him.My visit to Turkeybegan on a cold quiet night on 28th Jan.2007 and whenI finished my tour of Turkey I must confessed I was totally fascinated with the country.
    From the start it was a journey of discoveryto find that the women were dressed like normal human beings bereft of any head scarves or tudong.This was not only a surprise but a shock when you are told by the interpreter and tour guide that Turkey has a population of 70 million and 99% of its people are muslims.What is even more shocking was that Islam is not an official religion of this country which has a 99% muslim population.Turkey has maintained its secularity despite its muslim majority.
    What further shocked me was when the guide told me that the govt does not interfere or control the religion. This is all left to the imams of their respective mosques.And the powers given to the imams are limited.They have no authority to detain, arrest muslims who dont fast during Ramadam or muslims who drink alcohol or even commit khalwat. And what about inter marriage between believers and nonbelievers?Without a blink he replied that it was up to the couple and their families.If they agree they can go ahead and no one has the right to stop them. When I questioned further why this was the practice his reply was short and swift.A man’s belief in his religion is between him and God and if he choose to sin then he has to answer to God not to man.The govt or the imams has no right to punish any muslims who choose to sin.
    The revealation how Islam is practiced here was unexpected and I was totally unaware that a muslim country like Turkey could be able to practice Islam so liberally and with such modernity.
    But is not our P.M espousing Islam Hadhari?If onlyour P.M had taken the trouble to study Turkey’s model of how Islam is pracice then perhaps it would be more appropriate to adopt Turkey’s model.
    As I returned from my brief sojourn fromTurkey I wondered aloud to myself, ‘if only we could be like…..Turkey’.Better still, if only all muslim Malaysians could visit Turkey just once.

    Posted by Tungsten at 11:09 AM 0 comments

    Sunday, February 18, 2007

    Posted by Tungsten at 8:14 AM 0 comments

    Labels: My Journey to Istanbul

    WISHING EVERYONE A HAPPY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR
    WISHING ALL MY READERS A HAPPY AND VERY PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR.

    Posted by Tungsten at 2:22 AM 0 comments

    Saturday, February 17, 2007
    Dr. M’s Nobel Prize nomination boggles the mind.
    During his 22 years tenure as prime Ministerof Malaysia,Mahathir’s legacy has been his propensity to spend lavishly on mega projects.It would have been a tribute to his legacy if only what he spent extravagantly was useful to the citizen of this country.But this was not to be.
    His Multi-media corridor project was a flop and the country’s investment in a state of the art information technology ended in a loss of a few hundred million dollars when the foreigner entrusted with the task channelled investment funds to his private account in America.
    Putrajaya is half completed and its future is in limbo.The Petronas Twin Tower is only sparsely tennanted.KLIA which cost nearly $9 billion is under utilised.The Maltrade building which was contracted out for $160 million ended up costing $230million.Mahathir’s forage in the foreign exchange in the 80’s according to Anwar Ibrahim ended in a $31billion loss.
    His Human rights record was abysmal.He used theISA to incarcerate his opposition whenever there was a threat to his position.He used the judiciary to act in accordance with his whims and fancy and when they refused to comply he set up a tribunal to remove them.Even his Deputy was not spared his conniving ways. He manufactured trump up charges of corruption and sodomy to imprison his deputy when he perceived there was a threat to dethrone him.
    As for his foreign policy, there was little difference from his predeccessor and his current successor.Malaysia’s foreign policy has always been predicated on religion.That is the primary reason why we have not recognised Israel, a country which has not offended us in any way.And Mahathir’s moral support for the muslim insurgents in Southern Thailand has caused considerable anger in Bangkok.
    Therefore when we see the war crimes tribunal being conceived by Mahahthir we begin to suspect that his agenda was to support the muslim insurgents inIraq and the muslim Palestinians in Palestine.As for the perpetuator of 9/11? In Mahathir’s book they dont deserved to feature in the war crimes tribunal.This alone negate any credibilty Mahathir may have in attempting to legitimise the war crimes Tribunal.What really boggles the mind is what did he do to deserve the nomination of the Nobel prize?

    Posted by Tungsten at 10:02 AM 0 comments

    Wednesday, February 07, 2007
    Hypocrisy in Davos
    How could our P.M speak with such hypocritical conviction when he spoke in Davos, Switzerland ‘thatMalaysia shares Switzerland concern that countries should not practise double standards .’?
    A supposedly religious man with pious leanings to utter such lies in front of a world wide audience is not only shamefully embarrassing but reveals the hypocrisy of his character.
    What is the point of professing to the world his religiousity, his complete belief in his faith when in the same breath he can cast aside all his beliefs and instead practice and administer a policy of brazen discrimination of its citizens.
    The P.M is not young anymore.Its only a matter of time when he will face his maker and he will have to explain why he was been unjust to his citizens of other faith.His religion forbids him to be unjust to the people he governs and yet he did it with impunity.
    The P.M can continue to lie to the world but he cannot lie to his own conscience.The footprints he leaves behind in this world will follow him to the hereafter and he will have to answer for his follies.

    Posted by Tungsten at 7:16 AM 0 comments

    Sunday, February 04, 2007
    Scandals, Corruption not so easy to hide now.
    The present looting, plundering and corruption by our politicians we are witnessing now did not begin in 2005 or 2006 when the present P.M Abdullah Badawi took over the leadership from Dr. Mahathir.In fact this frequent accepted practice by the ruling Barisan National party has been going on for the last 50 years,ever since the formation of the Alliance party to the present day dacing of the Barisan national.
    To a great extent technological advancement play a vital role in disemminating information to the general public and the availabilty of internet access even accelerated the free flow of information.The accessibilty of the internet enabled information of scandals and corruption to travel on the information super highway at such a rapid pace then in a shortperiod of time the news is common knowledge to the public.
    Previously, in the last 48 years information or news of any scandals were kept hidden and conveniently concealed from public view.As a result corruption and any scandals were not published by the main stream media which for the most part was owned by the ruling party.
    With the present day availabilty of internet access the main stream media no longer have virtual monopoly of everyday news.Good or bad news will be reported and published in the internet and censorship is virtually impossible.
    Just to illustrate the point that corruption has been ever present in the govt ministry of Defence some 20 years ago when the Defence Minister ordered a fleet of fighter aircraft form U.S.A.When the aircraft was handed to the govt the condition of the aircraft was so poor that it could not take to the air.
    The fleet of aircraft was eventually put to shelter in a rented hangar somewhere in the Nevada desert. Until this day no one knows the fate of the aircraft.Fast forward to today, the Defence Minister purchase submarines and Russian fighter aircrafts and commission is paid to an agent in Malaysia who ostensibly act on behalf of some defence Ministry officials.
    Yes the practice is still continuing except the method is more sophisticated and the money changing hands is in the millions.
    If the elements and principle used as a yardstick to convict former DPM in 1998 was used today, all the the current ministers including the P.M and DPM would be convicted and thrown in prison.The fact that corrupt practices and scandals did not surfaced prior to Badawi’s era does not preclude its non existence.
    The more probable reason was because it was cleverly concealed by the main stream media and information was not freely available to the public then.

  3. Turkey is the real economic powerhouse of the Muslims world, not with oil but with hard work, creativity and imagination.

    To many of them, working hard and creating employment for their people to improve their standard of living in a globalised and competitive world is a form of daily prayer.

  4. For decades religious extremism and fundamentalism were allowed to do harm to a multi religious country without proper check and control on these harmful and destructive activities.

    No wonder you see previous PM and current Muslim leaders coming out strongly to defend an Islamic state and to abolish the Common Law.

    How could the Muslim and Non Muslim politicians in BN accept this unhealthy situation doing enormous harm to the country and betrayed the ordinary people?

  5. Well, for one thing, they should make it clear either a country is theocratic or secular. There is no such thing as a non-theocratic Islamic state – its nonsense and intellectual masturbation by people who don’t know the real thing…

  10. In Turkey you can drink wine in any shops.No restriction.
    No problem if you give Bible to any Muslims. Church and Mosques are built side by side. Jews synagogues can be found in Istanbul . Jew with their skull caps could walk freely, no one bothers.
    Oh yes, the ladies are very charming and modern wearing miniskirts in summer.
    You should go to Turkey to really see the charm and beauty of the country. The Blue mosque is really beautiful and architecture beyond compare.
    Yet the people there are not fanatics.

  11. Our leaders always claim that “We are a moderate islamic country and an example to the muslim world. Other islamic countries could learn from us..” Now, Turks came to us and wanted to learn from us on the mistake of Malaysia being an islamic state. They do not want their country to become an islamic state. I am sure Turkey can learn something from Malaysia..

  12. Islamic State is a smokescreen to cover up corrupt practices of BN govt. There will be no changes in how Malaysia is run if tomorrow we became an Islamic State, this is because thoese muslim leaders in UMNO are corrupt as ever, in fact, it could be much worst as Islamic State status would probably means that God has justified corruption. A BN govt’s Islamic State is an insult to God at the highest degree.

  13. Malaysia would have become a natural blend of cultures, genuine, uninhibited and dynamic, if it had not instead become hijacked ‘screwed up’ along its path by shallow minded social (mis)management and, instead, had adopted the Turkish model as an uncomplicated bench mark. It could have cast away the dark shadow of creeping Islamisation and adopted a more cheery personality- cry the beloved country!

  14. Malaysian leaders and powers that be should use the Turkish model as a successful example of how modern the Islamic way can be achieved, and the only way for this is via Secularism, which results in the separation of State and Religion, and restriction of the religious authorities so that society as a whole can progress naturally instead of being intimidated and it’s personality stifled, as has been the case over the past 3 decades. It’s going to have take a very tough and enlightened leader to be able to overturn the errors of the past ways and guide the nation forward instead of into the Dark Ages!

  16. What about Muslims in China? Do you know that there are well over 150 million Chinese who profess the Islamic faith?
    Once figures are considered, the number of Malays who think they are know all about their Islamic faith pales in comparison with others who also regularly prays five times and visit Mecca!
    Basically BN has long hijacked the Islamic faith and perverted the rightful course of natural justice. You would think that YBs have no fear of their GOD, and personally I think they couldn’t care less.

  19. Yay for Turkey…just found out that there are Malay who are not Muslims in the midst of us….if anyone has read The Sun dd 21 Sept 2007, a piece written by Rafidah Abdullah (Speak Up!Free Space)…”Another friend recalls how a classmate of hers argued with the teacher that she is a Malay, even though she is not a Muslim.As a matter of fact,way back during the days of the Malacca Sultanate,her ancestors were one of the few Malays who chose to embrace Christianity instead of Islam.They could hardly imagined that their decision would one day rob their future descendants of their racial & cultural heritage”….now that’s something no one knew

  20. naked taliban Says:

    September 24th, 2007 at 18: 45.05
    Islamic state and laws are good if Malaysia adopts, then all the thiefs will be left without hands and adulterers stone to death. THIS IS TRUE ISLAM.

    The problem with this type of “solution” naked taliban, is that the population of Malaysia would become very drastically reduced, cemeteries would “burst over” due to lack of space, and,with so many handless people – how would people be able to tie their shoe laces and get about their daily chores?
    Try another way forward, how about not oppressing them so strictly from childhood to adulthood, creating a more intellectual society by better quality, balanced education, and adopt the attitudes of a Secular Islamic society instead of an Islamic State/Taliban style?

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  22. kit, why Turkey PM ask you as an opposition but not AAB ? isn’t AAB the last time bought a yacht in that country ? Isn’t Turkey and Malaysia are OIC member ? “Turkey would never turn into another Malaysia” a bit sounds like an insult actually….

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  24. Malaysia boleh, Only we can call us Muslim state ,But we still have gambling ,and the sale of liquor.Do the people in UMNO KNOW WHAT A MUSLIM STATE IS. or are they in a state of denial that Malaysia can never and will never be a muslim state.

  25. I think the Turks themselves are very much aware of all the rotten things going on in this so called Islamic state. In fact it would not be far fetched if many countries knew about the state of this country. It’s wise of these Turks to come here and learn first hand what they shouldn’t do back home. Very wise indeed.

  26. melurian its PRIME INTEREST and not PRIME MINISTER ,
    Anyway what we have is UMNO brand of MUSLIM,The day TUN Dr M announce that Malaysia is an Islamic Islamic State ,Malaysia lost what our fore fathers fouhgt for,A Country for all Malaysian

    I stop inviting my Malay friends to any of my funtion in my house, not because im a bigot. But more of what they want, Things has become so bad that they will not eat or drink if i use my own cutlery to serve them.Even the cooks must be malays.

    So what i have is another funtion for my malay friends.Now everything is haram or halal,Even in schools none malays are not allowed to bring cooked food from home because its not halal.Things are becoming worst and worst every day.

  27. The only reason why Malaysia which was born a secular state is descending into an islamic state is because the non Malays/non Muslims dont have the gumption to stand up and fight for their rights……….nothing in this world comes without sacrifices….and if you dont want to sacrifice….then accept your fate and learn how to read the Quran and wear the purdah…….

  29. The difference is that muslims in Turkey are confident people who respect humanity and cherish diversity. They also have a healthy respect for all religions and understand that religion is a matter between an individual and their maker/god.

    On the other hand, what can we say about muslims in Malaysia?

  30. “From the start it was a journey of discovery to find that the women were dressed like normal human beings bereft of any head scarves or tudong..” Richard Teo

    Your comment is certainly offensive to Muslims. You’re here saying in other words that women with head scarves or tudong are not “normal human beings”.

    Shocking!!

  33. Lets go further than give credit for the compromises and hope all the backwardness stops. The nations leaders, those thta have the required guts should adopt the model which is most suited to the multi-cultural aspect of the country, and the Turkish Secular way is better than the present confusion. All these “separate development” issues such as Malays bringing their own crockery and food to the houses of other races shows how petty, divisive, and down right unhealthy the situation has become- and, these are the so-called petty issues. What about the more significant matters that urgently need addressing- Lina Joy for example,and many other delicate matters that people just don’t seem to want to talk about, where a person’s human rights have been conveniently thrown out of the window for fear of emotions going out of control?

  34. When a country’s leaders starts to encourage it’s citizens to leave if they don’t like it here or subduing its minorities by threatening them with violence and kris waving coupled with state sanctioned corruption then we are seeing the classic signs of a failed state. Not only that we are unfortunate enough at the same time to have an inept leader who doesn’t seem to know what’s happening around him much less solve them.
    In view of the foregoing why would any sane leader of any country want to emulate us? At best they could learn how NOT to fall into the hole we have fallen into.

  35. Even after 50 years of independence we still see ministers playing racial politics as in the case of Zam. How on earth can this hypocrite accuse the opposition leader of playing racial politics in criticising the police when he himself is doing so is beyond me.
    Perhaps this could be a lesson to foreign leaders to NOT play racial politics in administrating their countries.

  36. “dawsheng Says:
    September 24th, 2007 at 17: 42.25

    Islamic State is a smokescreen to cover up corrupt practices of BN govt.”

    I agree with dawsheng’s analysis. The crux of the matter is greed and quest for power. The proponents of the islamic state are using this issue to consolidate their strengths and rouse the rabble. Mahathir was an adept at this strategy and used it well to stay in power. Badawi is apeing the path laid down by his master. This trend will continue because (please forgive my french) shit rolls downhill.

  37. The fact that the people of Turkey does not want their country to be an Islamic state does not mean the Turkish are unIslamic.

    Ditto with Dr M, Abdullah Badawi and Najib’s declaration that Malaysia is an Islamic state. It does not necessarily mean they or the country are Islamic.

    What all this means is no one, no religious dept, no political parties, no govt, no country has monopoly on religion, in this case Islam.

    To people who claim they are the guardians of religion, in this case Islam, in Malaysia, open your mind. None is as blind as one who refuse to see.

  40. Basically speaking therefore, the problem is something like this:

    “Ladies and Gentlemen! Welcome to tonight’s show! In the one corner you have a HALAL, and in the other corner you have a non-HALAL “.
    Then, we begin to see (over the decades) since what was once the wonderfully easy going era of P.J.Ramlee’s Malaysia, non-Halal becomes not quite good enough, and possibly even HARAM,thus the great divide begins to show, with a little help from the meddling of the ‘Great Puppeteers’, who end up doing the nation a great disservice at the end of the day? Alas, what sad reminiscence on what could have become of PJ Ramlee’s Malaysia!

  41. Your comment is certainly offensive to Muslims. You’re here saying in other words that women with head scarves or tudong are not “normal human beings”. – undergrad2

    Agreed. That statement is definitely uncalled-for.

  44. I wish people would not wear their religion on their sleeves- what’s the real point of it anyway? Everyone can survive well enough without having to display it to the extent they end up, in some cases, “shoving into the faces” of others. True, it can be argued that it’s within a person’s right to do so if they feel they must, but often this creates a separate identity, unnecesarily putting barriers between people and so why should religion be used in this way? We see it often in Malaysia- isn’t it rather odd with the Saudi’s walking around, cloaked in black with only a mere “slit’ for the eyes to look out from, whislt their husbands a few steps in front in their Armani jeans and sunglasses, free to displsy their buttocks to the public. Sorry, but it looks rather creepy and unnecessary in the same way we see people dressed like Osama bin Ladin, displaying a form of strictness or whatever message they are trying to convey to others (Al Arqam for example). The same goes for whatever Faith, imagine walking around Malaysia dressed like the Pope- I believe that would create a mild sensation or even an aggressive reaction? But, in the West the Osama “look-a-likes” might get a mere 2nd glance with little outward negative sentiment from the public. Sorry, but wearing one’s religion on the sleeve is unnecessary and should rather be a kept private matter.Thank you!

  45. In a totally different context, President Bush wears his religion on his sleeve. He starts each day in the White House with a prayer participated by his staff. He has been criticized by the liberals – but then who is to stop him? It is after all a First Amendment right protected by the U.S> Constitution.

    It is time God retakes the seat of power.

  47. “President Bush wears his religion on his sleeve. He starts each day in the White House with a prayer participated by his staff” – Undergrad2. It is slightly better than what Clinton did in the White House but then again it is the symbolism of what a head of state does, getting all his staff (even those not particularly religious) to start work with a prayer – does not this contradict the secular approach of American government of which Bush is head?

  48. Thanks for the correction undergrad2, I meant P.Ramlee !
    The Americans are generally known for overdoing it on their sleeves too, a bit on the phoney side with the putting on a good show for the audiences. I laugh my guts out when their politicians and tele-Evangelicists ( with huge influence ) get caught with their pants down, literally, at the brothel, for example the Jimmy Swaggart types, and then ask the Lord for forgiveness (for being caught I suppose?). The USA has indeed contradicted secularism and imposed a Christian State on it’s fairly gullible people.

  49. We cannot look to Christians to learn what Jesus taught, nor can we look to the Muslims to determine what Muhammad taught.Don’t look at the actions of the believers….but look directly at the teachings & actions of two of the most influential persons who ever lived, Jesus & Muhammad. There’s a big difference between looking at the sources yourself & relying on other people to tell you what those sources say.

  50. Second borring
    yea, relying on other people to spoon fed you about religion is like: monkey say, monkey do
    and why bother people who want to practice what they believe in, funny! when people find it irritating, if you feel that Muslims women wearing headscarf are abnormal, or a Christian startg their day with a prayer is weird, let them be. It is after all a private matter!

  52. I’m new.. just registered 2 minutes ago.. and i’m not very fluent in english.. As a Muslim I’m quite disturbed to read some of the comment said that Turkish Muslims women who are wearing skirt and other turkish muslim who are easily drink wine is good Muslims as they are not fanatic with their religion..

    I don’t know what are your perception and idea about what is religion mean. what is the purpose of one embracing a religion if he don’t want to obey the rules and regulation in that religion..

    It is not fanatic.. it is obedience.. please do not justify something base on your own opinions. Each religion have its own approaches and explanation of that approaches. So, refer to the right source of each religion to know and understand that religion. Even though we are free to voice our opinion, not in religious things.

    about Islam, do not judge Islam based on the Muslims because there is many Muslim is Muslim because they inherited it, not because they embrace it.. Especially in Malaysia.. Most Muslim think that Muslim in only for Malay.. When anyone became Muslim, they need to wear baju Melayu, sarong, baju kurung… speak Malay.. Wedding in Malay tradition (It is not Islamic way of wedding… It is created based on mixture of tradition).. and the most sensitive is, change name into Malay name… I repeat Malay name, not Muslim name.. That is why it is very difficult for other race to accept it.. Actually that is not what Islam thaught. Everyone are free to wear anything as long as it cover the aurat (part of body that is obligated to be cover), either it is cheongsam, sari or whatever.. you are free to use any name as long as it have good meaning.. for example Lim Jooi Soon (If I’m not mistaken) who have the same mean as arabic word, al Falah, or kejayaan in Malay. But there are many Malay so called Muslim name that have no meaning at all.. just Malay name.. some are having bad name like Watie which means female urinary tract (I do not the exact translation but in Malay, Lubang kencing wanita).. Is that a good name you think? so better mantain the chinese or Indian name that have good meaning.. that is what in Islam teaching.. give your children the good names… not Malay name…

    so the conclusion here, do not judge Islam, based on what you see in Muslim today.. Refer to the right source.. If you feel it is not comfortable to see the Malay ustaz2, see Mr. Lim Jooi Soon, or Mr Shah Kirit Kakulal Govindji.. Not to embrace Islam, but to have the clear picture on how tolleratnce, rational and open minded the true Muslim is

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