As I said at the DAP public forum “An Islamic State after 50 years?” at the KL/Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall on 25th July 2007, there are diverse non-Muslim responses to the “717 Declaration” by the Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak on July 17, 2007 that Malaysia is an Islamic state and not and had never been a secular state.
One is to deride the claim that Malaysia is an Islamic state, asking how anyone could entertain the notion that Malaysia is an Islamic state when gambling and alcohol are allowed in the country.
Another is to ask how Malaysia could be an Islamic state when there is no full implementation of the hudud and syariah laws.
I also quoted an Islamic scholar Asghar Ali Engineer as representing another school questioning the validity of the “Islamic state” claim, arguing that an Islamic state should have the following characteristics: (1) it should be absolutely non-discriminatory on the basis of race, colour, language and nationality; (2) it should guarantee gender equality; (3) it should guarantee equal rights to all religious groups and accept plurality of religion as legitimate; and (4) lastly it should be democratic in nature whose basic premise will be human dignity. Asghar Ali Engineer concluded his contention: “Only those states which fulfill these criteria can be construed to be Islamic in nature. Thus an Islamic state is the very epitome of modern democratic pluralistic state. (The Concept of Islamic State — Asghar Ali Engineer)
There is certain validity in these three and other arguments challenging the claim that Malaysia is an Islamic state, but they failed to capture the whole dynamics and implications of the Islamic state contention.
On the part of Muslims in Malaysia, there are also those who reject the claim of top Umno leaders that Malaysia is an Islamic state.
But there are also those like ABIM who defended the Islamic state claim, declaring that Malaysia has been an Islamic state in practice ever since Independence.
Dr. Chandra Muzaffar argues Malaysia is not a secular state within the conventional use of the term and neither is it an Islamic state in the classical sense. He said it is unwise to insist that Malaysia is a secular state or an Islamic state which will only widen the chasm between the communities and exacerbate ethnic tensions.
Are the contentions between “Secular state” and “Islamic State” just word-play and a problem with labels?
There is very pertinent article in the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, 37(2), pp 249-266 June 2006 by Joseph M. Fernando from the Department of History, University of Malaya who delved into recently-available primary constitutional documents between 1956 and 1957 to trace the origin of Article 3(1) of the Federal Constitution and to determine the intentions of the framers in inserting this provision in the constitution.
These primary constitutional documents include the minutes of the Working Party which reviewed the Reid Constitutional Commission report; the documents relating to the Constitutional talks in London in May 1957; the Constitutional papers of the Alliance Party; and Colonial Office documents relating to the Constitution-making process.
These are some of the excerpts from Joseph Fernando’s article:
“The Reid Constitutional Commission, which drafted the 1957 Malayan Federal Constitution between June 1956 and February 1957, did not provide for an article declaring Islam the religion of the Federation despite the Alliance Party’s request in its memorandum to the Commission that this be done. This was largely because the Commissioners felt that such a provision would contradict the secular nature of the state. Further, they took note of the strong objections of the Malay Rulers to the inclusion of such a provision. The Alliance memorandum urging the Commission to provide for Islam as the religion of the Federation had stated unequivocally that such a provision would not impose any disability on non-Muslims and did not imply that the state was not secular.” — (p. 253)
“While officially the Reid Commission cited the submissions of the Rulers in omitting a provision making Islam the religion of the state, in private the Commission expressed concern over the contradiction between the Alliance’s declaration that Malaya would be a secular state and its proposal for Islam to be the official religion of the Federation.” (p. 254)
“When the Working Party, comprising the Alliance and Rulers’ representatives and the High Commissioner, met for the first time on 22 February 1957 to review the Reid Commission’s draft, the Alliance and UMNO chief Tunku Abdul Rahman requested that an article declaring Islam the religion of the Federation be included in the new Constitution, as had been proposed in the Alliance memorandum. The Tunku assured the committee that the state would be secular… In the Working Party, UMNO leaders had argued that the provision for an official religion would have an important psychological impact on Malays… The MCA and MIC representatives in the Working Party did not raise any objection to the insertion of the new article, despite concerns expressed by many non-Muslim organizations, as they were assured by their UMNO colleagues that it was intended to have symbolic significance rather than practical effect, and that the civil and political rights of the non-Muslims would not be impaired.” (p.257-258)
“The possibility of Article 2A (later renumbered Article 3) on state religion being misinterpreted was also raised (in the 19th Working Party Meeting on 17th April 1957)… On the possibility of the provision on religion being misinterpreted, the Tunku assured the Working Party that ‘the whole Constitution was framed on the basis that the Federation would be a secular state’. The minutes of the 19th Meeting are perhaps the clearest indication of the real intentions of the Allinace leaders. The Tunku, in this instance, states unequivocally that the whole Constitution was framed on the basis that the Federation would be a secular state.” (p. 259-260).
“At the London Constitutional talks in May 1957, the Colonial Office, while apprehensive at first of Article 3 providing for an official religion, did not object after being assured by the Alliance leaders that they ‘had no intention of creating a Muslim theocracy and that Malaya would be a secular state’.” (p. 260)
“In Malaya, the Alliance government tabled a White Paper in Parliament in July 1957 to explain the changes made to the Reid Commission’s draft Constitution by the Working Party in Kuala Lumpur in March and the tripartite body at the constitutional talks in London in May. The White Paper (Legislative Council Paper No. 42 of 1957) explained that while a new provision, Article 3, declaring Islam the religion of the Federation was now included in the Constitution, this would not affect the position of the Federation as a secular state, or the powers and privileges of the Malay Rulers as Heads of Religion in their respective states.” (p. 262)
“In the ensuing debate in the Malaysian Parliament on 10 July 1957… .The Tunku did not attempt to go beyond the White Paper to explain the meaning of this provision. But his colleague (later Tun) Tan Siew Sin’s remarks on the provision while speaking in the House in support of the Constitutional bill, reinforces the intention of the Alliance leaders in inserting Article 3 in the Constitution. Tan told the Federal legislature that although it had been provided that Islam would be the official religion, it had also been expressly laid down that ‘this does not in any way derogate from the principle, which has always been accepted, that Malaya will be a secular state and that there will be complete freedom to practice any other religion. Tan’s remarks indicate clearly the consensus reached by the Alliance parties.’ (p.263).
In his conclusion on the “intentions of the framers of the Constitution”, Joseph Fernando wrote:
“The passage of time has blurred the real intentions of the Malaysian framers of the Constitution and some recent scholarly works and discussions have questioned the secular basis of the state. An inadequate examination of the primary documents has largely contributed to these varied interpretations. The problem is not limited to scholars alone. Barely a year after independence, the Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman had to clarify the meaning of this provision during a debate in the Legislative Council. Said the Tunku: ‘I would like to make it clear that this country is not an Islamic State as it is generally understood, we merely provide that Islam shall be the official religion of the State.’ The historical evidence presented in this article, based on primary documents, clearly affirms the secular basis of the state.”
I have no doubt that the first three Prime Ministers, Tunku Abdul Rahman, Tun Razak and Tun Hussein would have had no hesitation in any period of their lives to reaffirm that Malaysia is a secular state with Islam as the official religion and not an Islamic state.
On the nation’s 50th Merdeka anniversary, are there any leaders in the ruling coalition who is prepared to reaffirm the Merdeka social contract and Malaysia Agreement that Malaysia is a secular state with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state?
It is clear from Joseph Fernando’s research and article, the contention over the terms “secular state” and “Islamic state” are not just word play or a problem of labeling, but are very grave issues with the most far-reaching implications for the nation and the citizenry as the abandonment of the 50-year-old secular basis of nation-building represents a tectonic shift in jettisoning the core and essence of nation-building agreed by the forefathers of the major communities on the attainment of Independence and establishment of Malaysia which could only undermine Malaysia’s pluralist diversity and global competitiveness.
I am oppose to an Islamic state in Malaysia because I will never give up my right for my beer.
Najib delared that Malaysia is and was an Islamic state because he is desperate, it is realpolitik at its worst.
Why only beer?? What about pork ribs, pork sausages and pork barrel politics?
“Secular/Islamic state contention just word-play or argument over labels?”
I do not see the difference. It is old wine in a new bottle.
Those not happy, just pack up your bags and go. Many countriesa re welcoming skilled malaysians….including usa.
You will have more rights there in one generation than by stayinghere for another 50 years!
All this talk about religion… does it matter at the end? Corruption is still prevalent as ever… crime is ever rising… drug use is still rampant… so what if the country is Islamic or not? Is it just window-dressing? Putting a nice gloss over the misdemeanours beneath? Of playing to the gallery?
It has to start WITHIN. Can the leaders, politicians, administrators declare themselves clean and corrupt-free? If they can, then I have absolutely no qualms about whatever label they choose to pin on themselves and the country, because it is the SUBSTANCE, not the FORM, that matters at the end.
Revisionism is alive and well in this country. Aside from this issue, what has struck me all these months leading to 50th Merdeka celebration is how our mass media is rewriting history in all sorts of way in the name of Malay pride.
Its a defeaning silence to see how all these talks of colonialist and how bad they were, are repeatedly drummed through the media and how just unfortunate and brave Malays rulers and heros are with incredible absence of the contribution of non-Malays starkedly ommitted.
The ideals of this nation is now just a banal one – that of development and repressed peace. There is no longer high ideals as a country and the damage is long done. There will come a day when our resource, cheap finance economic model no longer works and what we will be left with is nothing left inside to keep us going.
Do you still remember, there is this one top think tank in ASLI (or some other organisation) that wrote about Malay’s economic share which exceeded the quota and he was asked to retract back his research, and the Chairman apologised to AMENO? This guy quit his post to remain true to his principles.
Bottom LIne is AMENO cannot take constructive criticism!!
The chinese in xian had embraced Islam years before the malays became muslim. This is a fact, so i am not being seditious.
In Islam, lest my fellow brothers and sisters ( muslims ) and friends (non muslims) do not understand, we are to show respect to others. May i be allowed to cite an incident here on the life of Baginda Nabi Mohamad pbuh, to show and reflect what being humble means.:-
The Prophet Baginda Mohamad pbuh was preaching on day with his followers, when a funeral procession of a jew was passing by. The Prophet stood up and paid respect. the followers asked why ? since the deceased is a jew!. Baginda Nabi Mohamad stated ” has not a jew a soul ?”
This clearly reflect the real ‘iman’ in Baginda Nabi Mohamad, that we are all created by God and we are all human and with souls, and we are merely but servant of God as in hamba Allah swt.
and for the benefit of the non muslims that blog in, Nabi Isa as in Jesus was mentioned in the Holy Koran and Mariam as in Mary was included too.
I pray and hope that many will see the truth and that Islam is not used as a tool for political agenda. You have your choice as i had chosen mine.
It is not the exterior or holier than thou look that matters, it is the jiwa and niat . anyway to each man his own grave, and he/she answers to Creator .
thank you
although najib declaring islamic state is just a mimic to win over the lost-confidence malay, it is also create an impact towards how the rakyat sees the current government? how they can simply change the the constittion (aka supreme law for malaysia) without any approval from the parliment and the rakyat?
is the current government is heading certain direction that not even the non-bumi political parties is not aware? (as they are alwiz)
Why let the Extremists have the chance to word play and screw
up All the UNITY of Bangsa Malaysia. We have more than 10 races
in Malaysia and ALL OTHER RACES MUST UNIT TO FIGHT AGAINST
THE FANATICS WHO DOOMS THE FUTURE OF MALAYSIA!!
MALAYSIA can be of MUCH BETTER PLACE than SINGAPORE to live
in IF NOT because of ALL THOSE EXTREMISTS!!! They are IDIOTS!!
“Those not happy, just pack up your bags and go. Many countriesa re welcoming skilled malaysians….including usa.
You will have more rights there in one generation than by stayinghere for another 50 years!” – lakshy
My friend,
Leaving the country is not the solution. You forgot about those ‘unskilled’ Malaysians.
Our system is not perfect, we know that. But tell me seriously, where is there a perfect system in the world today. A perfect country with a perfect system.
We are a country only 50 years young. When US got their independence back in 1776, do you know how the US was 50 years after their independence?? Even today, the US is not perfect. You dont see blacks, hispanics living in Hampton. I dont blame you because maybe you have not seen first hand how the situation is in Harlem, Queens, East LA.
Maybe we have not been really exposed first hand with the happenings around the world, we tend to take our situation in Msia here for granted.
Former PM Tun Dr Mahathir that started national debate in the first instance by calling us an Islamic state now confuses it further by saying Malaysia is an Islamic state even though it is not officially called that. So there is now such a thing as “official†and “unofficialâ€Â, and implies that Islam is an ‘official’ religion in the constitution to support Malaysia being unofficially an Islamic state.
This contradicts what present PM category stated that we were not an Islamic state. But Mahathir also said “I think it (this controversy) is not leading us anywhere except to create a lot of problems†haqrmful to our multiracial country and he may be substantially right. See: http://www.malaysiakini.com/link/eNrLKCkpsNLXLy8v18vMKNFLzs/VTywqyUzOSS3WTyzQNzIwMNc3sNAHkonFmYn6jsG67q5+ur6JOYmVQL6uZ3FOYm5msm5wSWJJql5BRgEAOqga0Q==
For what we’re engaged in presently is philosophical problems on language and its use and abuse and whether definition like “secular†or “Islamic†state could reflect knowable reality. (For pointing the problems of definitions out, Socrates was 2000 years ago sentenced to death by drinking hemlocjk for poisoning the minds of the youths). Such arguments can go round and round. What is our reader/poster Lee Wang Yen, a major in analytical philosophy, whose input on this subject is required?
Most people whose votes count are neither philosophers nor logicians like Ludwig Wittgenstein (of ‘Tracticus Logico-Philosophicus’ fame) or Oxford’s Professor Ayer (of ‘Language and Logic’ fame) specializing in semantics.
But many of us would have read children classics like Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland (1865) and Through the Looking Glass (1871) by another Oxford mathematician and logician Lewis Caroll pen name for Charles Lutwidge Dodgson.
As Alice wanders through Wonderland and engages with the creatures therein there is this classic exchange with Humpty Dumpty – (I quote) “When I use a word,†Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.†“The question is,†said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.†“The question is,†said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that’s all.â€Â
UMNOputras are Humpty Dumpties. To them, language convey effectively emotive associations like religious sentiments and attach ‘ketuanan’ symbols, that linguistic power is real power and those who have power like them have the power to decide on the meaning of words as it suits their political agendas and the way to redefine the nation is to get the new definition “Islamic State†repeated as often as possible so that if one repeats it often enough, it becomes accepted.
Of course, I would agree that we should resist any attempt by politicians to manipulate language to justify totally arbitrary results to meet political ends. As wise Confucius said, “When words lose their meaning, peoples lose their liberty.†The world will chaotic if there is no proper frame of reference. What will it be if a cad says “I love you†to our daughter when the word “love†to the speaker means getting under her pants rather than an intended emotional attachment for life even when she is wrinkled, with white hair of which no “maintenance†(in Samy Vellu’s context) could rectify? (Sorry no sexist pun is intended). What happens if someone who bombs our beach club frequented by westerners is not called a terriorist but a freedom fighter? (In philosophy and psycholgy, it is represented by the “half full glass or half empty glass analogy – which is the case?).
To avoid anarchy, reference is crucial. When concepts are defined in certain way (like secular or Islamic) the crucial question is : to what does the defination refer?
There is here on the table a reference to the social contract and the Reid Commission and deliberations in period imediately before Merdeka.
Good. The Constitution might at inception be intended secular in recognition of our multiracial population but the fact that UMNO in Alliance could insert Article 3 on the official religion being Islam (and if I may add 9th Schedule as well) without contest by MCA/MIC leaders means that there was no consensus that the Constitution would be 100% secular – because no secular constitution in its purest form will countenance these provisions as concessions in deference to Malay feudal and cultural imperatives.
At best we can say that the Constitution is predicated on secular premises but being so predicated does not legitimize the extrapolation that we’re entirely 100% secular – and if we do so (because it would meet our Non Malay/Muslims’ agenda of preventing a an alleged slide down the slippery slope of Islamic theocracy) without looking at realities of the land, its peoples (including majority peoples), predominant culture and its rulers, with all four indicia representing the cornerstones of a state – in short denying the unvarnished truth as things are – then we will be just as guilty of the same distortion of truth and no better as those who would seek to deny us our liberty and usher us quickly into an Islamic theocracy by language manipulation.
I think what present PM said that we’re neither secular or an Islamic state is Ok as it is unique to our circumstances and it is no point in trying to pin down exactly what we are that the world and even language offers no equivalent of precedent – which will only generate disunity and give free rein to political Humpty Dumpties to interpret as they wish in advancement of their political agendas.
Wah Real World,
I am impressed, you are actually making a contribution and giving a perspective in departure from the normal heckling of what others say. Good for you man. :)
Jeffrey,
Heckling of what others say? Obviously, your goggles prevent you from seeing the petty insults thrown my way.
Anyway, I hope you remove em’ goggles so that facts rather than the usual petty insults and baseless rants be put on the table for discussion.
50 years of stealing is not enough, let’s go for another 50 years, or maybe even for perpetuity. Such is the arrogance and insolence of UMNO, where they never do what they preach, where the other parties are marginalised to the point where MCA, Gerakan and MIC have had their tongues ripped out and have become mute.
Cemerlang, Gemilang dan Terbilang. Work with me, not for me. I am the nation’s No. 1 servant. All smokescreens to steal from the rakyat’s coffers. And to buy bones for the poodles who follow them blindly and who bark at all and sundry.
Lets not debate about the issue anymore. It is obvious UMNO is playing the race card yet again…typical of a bankrupt government. LKS, bring this to the villages, rural areas and tell them BN is up to no good and is willing to sacrifice the nation hood for their selfish personal gains.
THOSE WHO FIGHT CORRUPTION, INJUSTICES AND UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION IS MORE PATRIOTIC THAN THOSE IN POWER WHO ONLY SERVE THEMSELVES
To all Malaysians, irrespective of creed, culture and race, lets show our patriotism by bringing an end to this hopeless govt.
definately, leaving the country is not the solution for the ones left behind. But will be the solution for most who decide to go.
Skilled includes tradesmen, tailors, craftsmen, mechanics, fitters, welders, chargemen, cooks, nurses, and many other “skills”.
Oh yeah, by the way, leaving the “unskilled” behind to run this country to the ground may be a fast wake-up call for the masses!
We are 50 years young, but I guess that means Singapore is younger. And what have the same people achieved for a country that has no natural resources?
And we are to keep looking at the past and say other countries are worse than us? Thats the umno and bn way. Not the way forward.
No one in his right mind would ever be able to agree that the policies being impelemented are helping the malay masses nor helping the country.
Malaysians have to wake up.
Start a movement to make DYTM Raja Nazrin the Leader!
“Oh yeah, by the way, leaving the “unskilled†behind to run this country to the ground may be a fast wake-up call for the masses!”
Lakshy
We are already in that situation. From the nation’s No. 1 servant down to his minions, they are all unskilled.
Godfather…my point too!
So I sincerely suggest that the skilled ones look for work elsewhere and earn a decent living, and better economic opportunities, with less rape of the place they are living in. More environmental protection, etc.
And looks like whatever others may say, the INTENTION is for this country to be an Islamic state. That is the agenda of certain politicians, and it wont matter what the other races have to say.
As we have seen, meeting minutes and historical facts will be changed to suit this.
And I wonder whose hand is going to be chopped off first for theft? And who is going to be stoned for adultery?
Of course getting a Tunship may preempt being punished.
When you are in a sinking ship………..what do you do? Bail out the water and attempt to patch the leak or abandon ship?
I guess it depends on how big the hole is and how serious you “percieve” the problem to be.
With a weak captain and ineffrective crew, and no direction to head to (dont know how to read compass or the stars), and with a massive hole, and with limited fuel left…I suggest we all bail out!
“We are 50 years young, but I guess that means Singapore is younger. And what have the same people achieved for a country that has no natural resources?” – lakshy
Ok Singapore …. from Kuan Yew to Hsien Loong, father to son thingy. Aint that nepotism?? And what about Ho Ching being the boss of Temasek Holdings?? Aint that cronism??
Like I said, there is actually no perfect country in this world. As much as we desire it, there aint gonna be a perfect life. Life is never gonna be fair or else God will make us all filthy rich and super healthy.
If some of us think it is all doom and gloom in Msia, maybe they should look around and see that there are others worse off than us. I was in South Africa a couple of months ago and all I can say is that one should try walking in downtown Johannesburg!! Fyi, tourists are advised to not stay in Johannesburg but to stay in Cape Town.
The doom merchants can say that we have a weak captain and all, but I will say thank god we didnt get a Slobodan Milosevic as captain. And that will be a ‘very strong’ captain.
It’s not the religion!
It’s the misguided faithful with extremism, fundamentalism and damaging political agenda!
First Deputy Premier Datuk Najib Razak said it and PM Abdullah twisted it and DAP MP Karpal Singh in Malaysiakini
Now Dr Mahathir says it again in Langkawi â€ÂMalaysia is an Islamic State†– though not officially and neither secular but recognized by most.
What we are witnessing from politicians is the philosophy of pragmatism in our truths, what we believe, are based upon your experiences; and as they hold to be efficient we hold them to be truthful but this view of efficiency is distorted. For a further read, check it out at. There’s only relative truth. Relative truth is for us, absolute truth is for God. So, let’s not waste time to seek truth, because…”
More Details at:
http://powerpresent.blogspot.com/2007/08/more-pics-dr-mahathir-repeats-his.html
Islamic state?
But I hear of Corruption as an accepted culture, Nepotism in the PM family and his cabinet, Murder in High places, Discrimination on account of race, Ministers with kinky sexual leanings (lesbian???), a police force that doubles up as thieves, a lazy civil service and
a state living off the taxes paid by kafirs!!!!!!
Najib, you must be joking! Tell me it’s a joke.
Broken record lagi. No perfect country. Other countries also got nepotism and cronyism. Opposition may also steal like the current administration. Sleeping Beauty is not that bad if you compare him with Slobodan Milosevic. Our football team is not that bad if you compare with Timor Leste. Our crime rate is not so bad if you compare with J’burg. Our universities aren’t that bad if you compare with the bottom 300, not the top 200.
Go on brown-nosing your masters. We are not moved by your sub-standard comparisons.
“Dr. Chandra Muzaffar argues Malaysia is not a secular state within the conventional use of the term and neither is it an Islamic state in the classical sense. He said it is unwise to insist that Malaysia is a secular state or an Islamic state which will only widen the chasm between the communities and exacerbate ethnic tensions.”
On the 31st August 1957, you will be a laughing stocks of the world if you dare to suggest and even challenge the Constitution that Malaysia is NOT is Secular state or we are somewhere “in between Secular and Islamic State”. All Malaysians at that time would have AGREED WITHOUT DOUBT THAT MALAYSIA IS A SECULAR STATE WITH A UNIQUE ISLAM AS THE OFFICIAL RELIGION. Ask your forefathers.
But not anymore today, the year 2007. All because it has been abused by UMNO for their political survival and agenda. So what Dr. Chandra said could be true. Today, 9 August 2007, Malaysia may not be a Secular state in the purest form of the word and neither is Malaysia an Islamic State in the typical sense of the word. I believe today, Malaysia is in transition period of becoming an Islamic State in the strictest sense of the word in next few decades. So, in 2007, we can say we are somewhat “in-between”.
But mark my words, on the 31st August 2057, Malaysia will be celebrating 100th year of Merdeka with Islam no longer an official religion of the country but an Islamic State IN THE PUREST FORM, if we keep on voting for UMNO, MCA, MIC, PPP, Gerakan, SUPP, PBS and etc every single General Elections leading up to the year 2057.
So tell your friends, neighbours, colleages and family members that a vote for MCA, MIC, PPP, Gerakan, SUPP, PBS and etc is a vote for Islamic State leading up TO THE PUREST FORM in the next few decades to the year 2057, not only in the coming General Election, but years after that, if we still have a General Election.
“Go on brown-nosing your masters. We are not moved by your sub-standard comparisons.” – Godfather
Well, maybe you can enlighten me with some decent comparisons? And what has our football team gotta do with BN??? But since you are on the sporting page, our squash players are doing pretty good. Credit goes to BN then, eh? Same goes for badminton, bowling.
But back to football … at least we didnt import some foreign players like Singapore.
I take it that your prefer George Bush then?
“I’m a rottweiler.†– Godfather
Godfaher, actually RealWorld is not all that bad. He does endorse our views. But he has to do it subtly. Read his notes and points carefully.
While he tries to punch holes (diversionary tactics) one one issue he lets dozens of others slip past.
Anyway, why else would he be spending so much of his time here? Birds of a feather and all that?
But anyway, everyone is free to ignore his comments and anyone elses too!
Singapore vs Malaysia
……….Razak…..to now Najib waiting in line.
…………..Onn Jaffar….Hussein Onn……Hishamuddin (waiting in line)
Mahathir…….sons waiting
AAB…….Son in law waiting.
Wow! We got soooo many more than Singapore’s LKY to LSL.
So with so much more nepotism that Singapore we must be much better than Singapore! Way to go RealWorld! You area true eyeopener!
The fall of Shah of Iran gave rise to the present oppressive brand of Islam. Following the present clamour for an Islamic state, are we prepared to have Ulamas to be the heads of government as in Iran and the women reduced to second class citizens? Or do we prefer the Turkish type where you will find more girls wearing mini-skirts than tudung or girls in bikinis sunbathing in Egypt’s Red Sea resorts or Morroco’s Casablanca?
The Islam as proposed by the Prophet Mohamad (pbuh) is tolerant, forgiving and loving. Unfortunately, recent events worldwide have shown the ugly side of the religion. Sadly, the majority of the good Muslims worldwide has allowed the radical and extremist militants to call the shots.
Our present constitution provides for Sultans and Agong which with the benefit of hindsight has proven to be the wisest idea. YM Raja Nazrin has proven his pedigree and has exemplified the dignity and wise counsel of the Rulers. With the recent rejection of the Chief Judge nominee by the Council of Rulers, the rulers will now be more endeared to the raayat. Daulat Tuanku!
Historically, Penang, Melaka, Sabah and Sarawak are British colonies and Islamic laws do not apply. Therefore, those born in these 4 states before Merdeka, can they now opt out of Malaysia since there is a change of contract causing a force majeur?
Going further back in history Parameswara was a Hindu and the Langkasuka Kingdom in Kedah was a Hindu kingdom. Therefore, the argument that Malays practised Islam since time immorial is pure humbug.
Also, the British would not have agreed to give independence to Malaya to Muslim Malays only. Bear that in mind that the Communist Party of Malaya was very strong then. Imagine Malaya would then become a Sri Lanka, Lebanon or Northern Ireland if they have done so. Praise God the British gave Malaya to all races mainly Malays, Chinese and Indians. Later Malaysia was formed and that includes the Ibans, Dayaks, Kadazans etc.
The Merdeka social contract is very clear. Islam was made an official religion for the simple reason of expediency. You do not expect the a Muslim taking an oath of office swearing on a holy book other than a Quran – would you? Article 121(1A) was introduced after May 13 and long after Merdeka and therefore, it cannot be argued that it is part and parcel of the Merdeka social contract.
Time for us to have a regime change. 50 tahun- Cukup Lah.
God bless Malaysia inspite of our inequities.
And yes when we compare vs other countries, why go so far lah? Even Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Myanmar, Vietnam, etc are all worse than us.
What the heck China and India are also worse than us. Then there’s Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Timur-Leste, ….all worse than us.
And we should thank our lucky stars that we dont have a ruthless PM etc.
At least this UMNO stooge tries his best in the civilised sense to throw us off course without threats, without shouts, unlike the goons at UMNO Youth.
At least this poodle tries to justify the existence of UMNO by playing the “there’s no better alternative” tune. At least this poodle tries to tell everyone “other places are worse”.
At least he tries to be civilised in justifying their right to steal. I wonder if once we take away their right to steal, they will show their true colours and brandish their keris !
When comparing Malaysia vs other countries, bear in mind the vast natural resources that this country possesses. Don’t compare with resource poor Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Malaysia has been endowed with the 2nd largest natural resources in ASEAN, after the vast Indonesian archipelago. (Singapore has the least)
In fact, had the country been properly managed the past 50 years, it would rank among the top 10 wealthiest in the world. There would had been no personal income tax here, as in Brunei. But today, as things stand, we are so poor :sob: that we have to borrow money from China to build the 2nd Penang bridge. We are poor today because our leaders are not only inept but corrupt to the core
“DAP has brought to light a Finance Ministry circular that requires all government affiliated agencies to award direct purchases worth more than RM10,000 to bumiputera companies only.
– PM urged to act
– Mere chicken feed ” – Malaysiakini
More Affirnative actions, mopre handouts.
50 years is enough.
Tomorrow has got to be better than this government! there can be not more excuse from BN for a fair and just Malaysia.
Time to change, vote oppositions.
UEM World has been told that any subcontracts on the Penang Bridge cannot be given to non-bumiputras since the Mainland Chinese contractor already has 51 pct of the work. The instructions also carry a warning to the bumiputra sub-contractors: anyone caught further sub-contracting to the non-bumis risk losing their contracts.
This is Bolehland, and they have made stealing into a fine art.
The Proclamation Of Independence signed by Bapa Malaysia begins ‘In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful, praise be to god, the Lord of the Universe and may the blessings and peace of God be upon his messengers….” unquote exact wording from Tunku our Bapa. Merdeka.
Don’t the people on both sides of the politican divide get tired and sick of arguing on secular/Islamic state of the country? The stamina and tenacity to stay on course is really baffling compared to any determination of politicians to resolve more urgent issues of bread and butter of common people in the street.
I think Malaysia is a Hindu state.
Malaysia is a Sorry State.
Pak Ohlala is very undecided. HE has no mind of his own. ONe fella tells him Islamic and he will annc ISlamic. ANother fella tells him Secular, he will say secular. Then his grandchild come and tell him, anything state will do and he will tell the world so.
Flip-flop. We are wasting our time here.
Come next year the whole joke will surface again when some court jester will come out and shout something similar again.
I vote for “sorry state” and “estate” also not too bad. We are still in the doldrums compared to other countries that have advanced so far ahead of us.
RealWorld,
Who is comparing our national football squad to bn? What I gather from that statement is simply, you’ve gotta make apple-to-apple, and not sub-standard, comparisons. You’re reading things that are not there, great!
Next, what’s wrong with Lee Kuan Yew down to Lee Hsien Loong? If Mahathir / Badawi were half as capable as Lee Kuan Yew in developing Singapore, I’d have shown my staunch support for Mukhriz / Kamaluddin / Jamaluddin.
Lastly, your ability to maintain the air of calm and composure around your writings is truly commendable. Keep up the good work!
Our anthem goes…
Negaraku
Tanah tumpahnya darahku
Rakyat hidup
Bersatu dan maju
Rahmat bahgia
TUHAN kurniakan
…………….
It uses Tuhan…………..I wonder why?
UMNO-BN racist have a game plan on exploiting the Islamic/Secular thing issues for 50 years and counting…..
The question we need to ask is whether the opposition have a game Plan in response…
Why not this Merdeka Wear Black and Line the Streets ALL over Malaysia especially Dataran Merdeka where the Live telecast will be carried out…
Come on out wear black hat, shirt, anything…on 31 August…and let the Rulers, Leaders the world know something is Wrong!!….Send a Clear message…..come on Everybody…this is for Humanity!!
This is Freeodm of Religion
Freedom from Racism
Freedom of Press
and Freedom from intimidation…and the list increases
Our problem is that the character of a state is – whether secular or theocratic or something in between – is as much measured by and reflected in the land, its peoples (including majority peoples), predominant culture, its rulers, institutions and values infused in the administration as it is supposedly gauged from its earlier constitutional documents.
The question may be legitimately asked why when TDM and his deputy DSAI (Anwar Ibrahim) actively embarked on their Islamisation programme for more than twenty years changing the character of the nation to Islamic, which may be said to be inconsistent with the spirit if not letter of these constitutional documents, no malay/muslim organisation or any stakeholders of non malay/muslim interests and even opposition party including the DAP had explicitly objected against TDM/DSAI’s progamme (ie allocation of huge amounts of public funds to establishing Islamic place of worship, institutions of learning, banking, insurance etc and our leaders proclaiming that we’re a modern Islamic state to the whole world and regional organistions and bodies, taking the OIC chair etc, thereby acquiescing with Islamisation of the nation being achieved by fait accompli. So where is the so called “tectonic shift†from secular to Islamic? It has been going on for last 20 over years!
Also constitutional documents including the Reid Commission report may give insights and inspiration of secular intentions and premises of the “Social Contract†but like any other legal contracts may be revised by the parties over time as reflected by their conduct, and the stronger party normally have its way to reformulate it in accord with its wishes.
Take the case of Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim. It is widely assumed that if and when the Opposition evicts the BN and comes to power DSAI would be the natural choice of a credible Malay leader leading the government. What BN’s detractors should have no illusion about is that DSAI rose to political prominence on the back of ABIM, partook in TDM’s Islamisation programme and even today as he criticized Najib Tun Razak for “abysmal ignorance†in proclaiming Malaysia an Islamic state, DSAI (a likely future prime minister if Opposition wins) has carefully avoided declaring, as YB Kit appears to be doing, that Malaysia is a secular state based on the aspirations underlying the constitutional documents. What more those of you who believe that the hope for getting rid of the “den of thieves†lies in supporting the Opposition front should confront the reality that the Opposition front is still led by PAS (that PKR depends on carrying Malay/Muslim votes) and PAS is dedicated to an unequivocal and unvarnished Islamic state in its purest form. Now if one thinks that DSAI, who is vocal in criticizing Najib for his “abysmal ignorance†is himself privy to knowledge of the country’s secular destiny, think again why, if DSAI truly does not believe in an Islamic State, he is campaigning for a party like PAS which believes that the Sharia should be the supreme law of the land!
Unless YB LKS or non malay/non muslims become prime minsiter and/or form majority of government – or put in another way if non non malay/non muslims become majority of population (which surely canmnot happen because nearly ½ of the commenters here talk of migrating) – the reality is that this country can never be a secular state whatever the constitutional documents stipulate.
This is because no muslim leader today will ever concede that he is a leader of a secular state. There is no muslim leader world over who is like Mustafa Kemal Ataturk of Turkey but then again in his time (1881-1938) Ayatollah Khomeini was still a teacher not engaged in politics let alone led a revolution!
In the premises of Malaysia being neither a secular or an Islamic state (as PM said), the last word on what we actually are should rightly be attributed to smeagroo who has come out with the original – that Malaysia is a Sorry State – in his posting August 9th, 2007 at 23: 35.35
It is a sorry state that at 50 years old the country has midlife crisis still having no consensus as to what identiity it is.
“At least this UMNO stooge tries his best in the civilised sense to throw us off course without threats, without shouts, unlike the goons at UMNO Youth.” – Godfather
Stooge?? Talk about trying to be civilised. You may want to walk the talk rather than resorting to your usual petty insults.
… and the icing on the cake is that Jeffrey will not see this as heckling. But I guess such petty name calling is no heckling for the like minded.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Friday/National/20070810083405/Article/index_html
Malaysia sangat boleh! 9 year-old schoolboy stole bicycle and the teacher who caught the little thief was in turn assaulted and forced to apologize by his father and friend.
So in a couple more years, the 9 year-old will graduate to rape and robbery because he knew his victims would have to apologize to him
A rose by any name…….
Why not go all the way and rename the country Malaise-stan?
“Lastly, your ability to maintain the air of calm and composure around your writings is truly commendable. Keep up the good work!” – mateRealWorld
Likewise, likewise. I like your username. Has a familar ring, you know.
Wonder how many other usernames you have here? :)
an Islamic state should have the following characteristics: (1) it should be absolutely non-discriminatory on the basis of race, colour, language and nationality; (2) it should guarantee gender equality; (3) it should guarantee equal rights to all religious groups and accept plurality of religion as legitimate; and (4) lastly it should be democratic in nature whose basic premise will be human dignity
http://www.crosswalk.com/1110478/
…only 11 of the 47 nations (23 percent) with an Islamic majority have democratically elected governments. In the non-Islamic world, which comprises 145 states, 110 are electoral democracies (75 percent). Therefore, a non-Islamic state is over three times more likely to be democratic than an Islamic state. None of the 16 Arab states of the Middle East and North Africa is a democracy.
“I wonder if once we take away their right to steal, they will show their true colours and brandish their keris !” – Godfather
I have a different opinion and the likes of you resort to hurling insults, name calling and all. Who do you think is acting more like a thug?
“……….Razak…..to now Najib waiting in line.
…………..Onn Jaffar….Hussein Onn……Hishamuddin (waiting in line)
Mahathir…….sons waiting
AAB…….Son in law waiting.” – lakshy
Based on your argument, I can then also conclude the following ;
Hsien Loong …. his chidren in waiting …. err grandchildren in waiting
Ho Ching …. her family members in waiting
We be consistent la.
The research by Joseph M. Fernando from the Department of History, University of Malaya is very illuminating indeed. It is obvious that early PMs like Tunku Abdul Rahman, Tun Razak, Tun Hussein Onn were aware of the historical background and the rationale for this.
Surviving PMs like Tun M had chosen to ignore the legacy and heritage and veered off the proven track to curry the favour of one race and the bastion of their political support by playing on the religion issue. This is shortsighted, parochial and downright dangerous when playing with the fires of racial harmony. Since Tun M’s rise to power on the calculated cards of race and religion, subsequent leaders have tried to outdo each other and be more Malay and more Muslim than their UMNO colleague to win favour and support in the party.
It will now take great insight and statesmanship to steer the ship in the right direction. This cannot be achieved by UMNO which is now like an albatross around Malaysia’s neck. MAlaysia needs to dump this UMNO albatross and move ahead in the world. But this soaring can only be achieved without UMNO, without MCA, without Gerakan aand other BN poodles which have all become lap dogs that licks UMNO’s *****.
“Time to change, vote oppositions.” – ihavesomethingtosay
What does the Opposition has to offer??
In the first place, they are not even united. All they have is a marriage of convenience. The rakyat have rejected such a marriage before because it is not long term.
How are you going to govern and administer the country when you are not even united?
DAP & PAS are like chicken and duck
PKR when they are with DAP, they be silent on the islamic state issue. But when they are with PAS, they stand on islamic state. So, which is which?
DAP’s Msian Malaysia idealogy but the entire party and leadership is say 95% chinese (fair comment?).
The Opposition go to the elections under their various party banners and that alone is indicative enough that theirs is no united front.
Vote for the Opposition … on what basis?? Based on the petty insults and name calling thrown by the likes of Godfather, who see himself as a Rottweiler, a dog??
Hmmmm …. I dont know maybe the next GE, the rakyat should give it to the Opposition. Let this motley crew run the nation for 5 years and then we see how.
Over to you … the rakyat
THe mentality fostered amonst BN assemblymen is epitomized in Najib’s statement where he urged all assemblymen to adopt the “4J†principle in their approach beginning first with “jaga diri (take care of yourself)”, the “jaga rakyat (take care of the people), jaga kawasan (take care of your constituency) and jaga parti (take care of the party).” will come later.
In fact, I think their policy has always been ‘jaga sendiri’ first….the rest can share the crumbs; the Rakyat last!
“But this soaring can only be achieved without UMNO, without MCA, without Gerakan aand other BN poodles which have all become lap dogs that licks UMNO’s *****.” _ ENDANGERED HORNBILL
Dear ENDANGERED HORNBILL,
Why resort to name calling? BN poodles, lap dogs, licks UMNO’s ***** etc , no need to resort to such rough language if you are unhappy. As citizens, if we are unhappy there is the democratic process where we get to select the leaders of our choice.
Have you forgotten your “Malaysia needs leaders with a cosmopolitan mind, peaceable attributes that can foster harmony amongst its diverse populations” ? I believe having a cosmopolitan mind and peaceable attributes will NEVER resort to petty insults.
Malaysia is a Buddhist State!! There are so many temples in
Malaysia, so it is a Buddhist State. The Buddhist temples
include Races from Indians and Chinese…
We Must Not let Others to dictate and decide our FATEs,
instead We Ought to decide Our Own Fates BUT no one
else should do that for us except Our very own Selves!!!
We are against One Race Policy!!!
Wake up MORONs!!!
RealWorld:
Calling you a poodle is actually an endearing term. It refers to your habit of smelling your masters’ @sses and barking at everyone that complains about your masters.
We have decided on regime change, and you have agreed that the rakyat should decide. Let’s leave it at that. The rakyat will decide.
And you should tell your UMNO masters not to threaten us with foul language, name calling, and the keris. Tell your UMNO masters we also take exception to their threats to spill blood. Foul language and name-calling is not the exclusive right of UMNO.
“ANother fella tells him Secular, he will say secular…” smear guru
No, he thought they were saying ‘circular’ and so his argument since has been circular.
RealWorld Says:
August 10th, 2007 at 10: 36.32
“But this soaring can only be achieved without UMNO, without MCA, without Gerakan aand other BN poodles which have all become lap dogs that licks UMNO’s *****.†_ ENDANGERED HORNBILL
Calling UMNO an albatross and MCA, MIC, GERAKAN etc as poodles and lap dogs is not insulting. Calling Tony Blair an American poodle is also not insulting. It’s calling them by their REAL name, or almost.
Calling a lemon a plum doesn’t make it a plum. The lemon will taste just as sour. Similarly, calling UMNO an albatross doesn’t make it a vulture, though the latter name fits just as snugly. UMNO, as an albatross around the neck, simply means that having them around is like spinning giddily around the same old tracks of corruption, racism, religious extremism, nepotism, incompetence, brigandry, braggartism (‘world class’ – everything little thing is world-class to UMNO including taking a space taxi!) etc. etc. I can go on but I don’t want to humour a ‘nice’ guy who is probably overpaid by UMNO to write gibberish in serious webblogs. Oh, and to stick to the oint on the albatross – an UMNO albatross keeps causing the same problems and stops you from being successful, from being really world-class.
And, this next bit is for your education. Since you, like the majority of UMNO’s albatrosses have been described in RPK’s blog as reading and understanding little English, learn this. An albatross is a large white bird. In the poem “The Rime of the Ancient mariner” by Samuel Taylor Coleridge, a man on a ship kills an albatross which is then hung round his neck to show that he has brought bad luck! You see UMNO, MCA, MIC, GERAKAN, etc. brings bad luck, bad Feng Shui for the country. That’s the meaning of albatross in this context.
By the way, “The Rime of the Ancient mariner” by Samuel Taylor Coleridge is in the International ‘Ordinary’ Level syllabus for the Cambridge or Edexcel examinations, UK. I don’t mean to insult you but I guess Realworld, you’ve not progressed so far. Still with your PMR, I guess. Best of luck in yr coming PMR exams.
And for the meaning of a poodle, I don’t have to tell a poodle he is a poodle. They are blindly obedient and would die for their masters; such is the unthinking devotion of dogs; they only obey simple commands. Arf. Arf. Realworld, “Go and lick UMNO’s *****”.
Realworld, you will get yr dog biscuits and a bowl of milk tonight.
“Arf. Arf. Realworld, “Go and lick UMNO’s *****â€Â.” – ENDANGERED HORNBILL
World class, eh? :(
I guess reading Samuel Taylor Coleridge didnt do you much help.
I rest my case.
“Realworld, you will get yr dog biscuits and a bowl of milk tonight.” – ENDANGERED HORNBILL
Print and show this to your mummy and daddy. Am sure they be real proud of your accomplishments.
Godfather,
You calling yourself ‘I am a Rottweiler’, I guess is also an endearing term. You are merely refering to your habit of turning around each time you take a dump and sniffing your turd, eh?
As a dog, what other tricks do you know?
Commenters in this Blog have mastered the art of verbal warfare and turned it to state of art. :)
“Secular/Islamic state contention just word-play or argument over labels? ”
IT IS NOT JUST WORD-PLAY OR ARGUMENT OVER LABELS!!
LET ME GIVE AN EG. , IF OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT WE CAN KILL SOMEONE AND IF WITHIN 24HOURS, WE ARE NOT CAUGHT BY THE POLICE, WE ARE A FREE MAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS NATION WILL BE? WE MAY SAY THAT WE ARE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AND WE WONT KILL ANYONE EVEN THOUGH THE CONSTITUTION PROVIDES FOR SUCH A CLAUSE AND WE WILL NEVER USE IT. BUT THE TRUTH IS IF SOMEONE OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE USE THIS CLAUSE TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTION BY KILLING SOMEONE, THOSE WHO DONT AGREE WITH THEIR ACTION WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT OR TO GET THE CONSTITUTION CHANGED OR RESORT TO OTHER MEANS TO SHOW THEIR DISAPPROVAL!! E.G. REVOLUTION. NO ONE ELSE WILL COME TO OUR HELP IF OUR LAWS SAY SO!!
SO, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE MUST DECLARE WHETHER WE ARE AN ISLAMIC STATE OR A SECULAR STATE, UNLESS WE DONT ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION AT ALL!!!
godfather and realworld seems to have a love hate realtionship between them. hei, you are using this medium to call each other names. come on, be nice to each other.
how to be united. agreed to disagreed but stick to the main principle. ok.
yb lim,
you dont seem to comment on our comments.
i think you should.
rgds
Adam Yong:
At least we use endearing terms on each other, and the UMNO guy doesn’t wave his keris or tell me to leave the country. This is not exactly the relationship that exists between UMNO Youth and the rest of the component parties. In that sense, I am a lucky guy.
thanks godfather . violence begets violence. i respect you sir.
endearing terms. nice choice of words.
“And you should tell your UMNO masters not to threaten us with foul language, name calling, and the keris. Tell your UMNO masters we also take exception to their threats to spill blood.” – Godfather
Dude, really you need to stay on the subject matter. And the subject matter is whether you can hold a discussion without resorting to name calling or petty insults.
“Dude, really you need to stay on the subject matter. And the subject matter is whether you can hold a discussion without resorting to name calling or petty insults.” – RealWorld
__________________________________________
What’s wrong with name-calling & petty insults? You come into a DAP leader’s blog and you want to set your own rules of no name-calling & no petty insults?
If SIL Khairi could call bloggers as monkey, why Godfather cannot call you a dog? If Zainuddin Maidin could call others as goblok, why I cannot call you a dullard?
I think Malaysia is now a Pariah State.
You don’t think Malaysia is now a Pariah State??
Definition of pariah is that of being shunned, of being an outcast. Badawi will claim of success at the recent Langkawi summit of South-south cooperation.
Nah, I think we are a cuckoo state – and our neighbours know it, but won’t say it.
“What’s wrong with name-calling & petty insults? You come into a DAP leader’s blog and you want to set your own rules of no name-calling & no petty insults?
If SIL Khairi could call bloggers as monkey, why Godfather cannot call you a dog? If Zainuddin Maidin could call others as goblok, why I cannot call you a dullard?” – devilmaster
Are you saying name calling and petty insults the DAP way?
If that is the case, please, please go ahead and throw all those petty insults my way. Do your worst ok?
And by the way, your Godfather see himself as a Rottweiler. Well, do remember to take that doggy of yours out for a walk, ok?
“Are you saying name calling and petty insults the DAP way?
If that is the case, please, please go ahead and throw all those petty insults my way. Do your worst ok?
And by the way, your Godfather see himself as a Rottweiler. Well, do remember to take that doggy of yours out for a walk, ok?” – RealWorld
_________________________________________-
Did i mentioned it is DAP way? Are you assuming yourself or putting me in a bad limelight? I prefer to take a real dog out, like you; not a human being like Godfather.
“I think we are a cuckoo state” Godfather
Malaysia is neither an Islamic, nor secular nor cuckoo but a police state.
Yo devilmaster,
I like the way you wriggle. Your “You come into a DAP leader’s blog and you want to set your own rules of no name-calling & no petty insults?” pretty much gave it away, dude.
Not assuming, just highlighting to you your statement. :)
Alright. We shall move on to other newer topics.
Finally saw the light, eh?
Ok. :)
What “light” are you talking about? I am not aware of it. Just that you are too defensive in this topic, making me bored. Let’s move on to other topics.
Ok then , kindly explain what you meant by …”You come into a DAP leader’s blog and you want to set your own rules of no name-calling & no petty insults?”
It has been clearly explained in plain english. Just ask your elders if you are not clear.
Ohhh …. is this “If SIL Khairi could call bloggers as monkey, why Godfather cannot call you a dog? If Zainuddin Maidin could call others as goblok, why I cannot call you a dullard?†the explaination??
Notice the “WHY” there. Check the dictionary the meaning of “WHY”.
So it is perfectly ok to insult just because others do it?
Now I know your reason for saying I plundered the nation’s wealth!
Dude: Would have been much safer for you to say “saya tak tahu” instead of spinning till you are confused.
Dear RealWorld,
“Wonder how many other usernames you have here?”
For your information, that is my first post on this blog. I use the name, mateRealWorld, simply because it means “mate of RealWorld”, in case you don’t get what it means, mate means friend. I want to be your friend, hence the name.
I have to say that you’ve spurred me to contribute my opinions here. I’ve to be totally frank with you that the above question of yours insinuates a petty insult, and it hurts me badly. I hope that I’m not reading things that aren’t there. I truly hope that I’m wrong here.
Please discuss without hurling petty insults at one another, I implore you…
“Dude: Would have been much safer for you to say “saya tak tahu†instead of spinning till you are confused.” – Godfather
For someone who see himself as a dog, I wonder who is in a confused state.
A rottweiler. A dog, an animal.
Need I say more.
“…in case you don’t get what it means, mate means friend. I want to be your friend, hence the name.” – mateRealWorld
zzzzz
Try harder
Ever seen what a rottweiler does to a poodle ? No, this is not a threat, so don’t take it negatively. This is reality.
“So it is perfectly ok to insult just because others do it?” RealWorld
____________________________________-
Is is not Ok then? Let us discuss it.
RealWorld,
You have been assuming the moral high ground in your replies, but when someone else serves it back to you nicely on a platter, you can’t accept it gracefully. You’ve really made me drop my glasses, big time.
If I were to keep on harping on you on this issue, I’d be no different from you. I’d better stop now. Sigh…
What are the non-halal, uncircumcised IDIOTS doing in an Islamic government?