Posted on by Kit

Tolerance my ass!

I have received the following very angry email from MS, with a very ferocious heading which I am using – breaking a rule of this blog:

Couldnt help feeling this angry today. I know at my age, I am supposed to be mellowing out, looking forward to a nice chilled day and now what? I find myself with the same amount of righteous anger as I had when I was 16 – going through puberty and finding the world most unfair that my mum wouldnt allow me to have my first pair of cargo pants!

I was sitting in the banana leaf shop this morning having a roti and a coffee when a group of JAWI officers entered the premises. 10 officers to be exact, into this little shop. They spent a good 20 minutes going through the place (and it is a small place!) and finally one officer writes out a writ and gives it to the cashier. They then left. Curious, I asked the cashier what that was all about and he replied that they were not allowed to have their little altars and pictures of their deities in their shop “because otherwise, Muslims cannot come into their shops” . What utter nonsense! Are we still living in the Malaysia that is so “famed” for its “religious tolerance”?? The shop is not a mamak shop. It is an Indian Banana leaf shop. Why would it be surprising that they should have signs of their religious beliefs in their own space? I didnt think that sort of thing was illegal (please correct me if I am wrong). What is wrong with this picture? Will it come down to the point when my Muslim friends should not visit my home just because I have a cross or a chinese altar there? PLEASE!

Better yet, I discovered as I was leaving , that the JAWI personnel had targetted the other 3 banana leaf shops along that row of old shops (near the vets office – off Jalan Maarof). There were at least 4 nos of vans for the officers , ALL double parked on the main road and causing an inconvenience to the other road users. Is there a separate set of laws that govern these people? Notwithstanding the fact that they are trampling all over the definition of religious tolerance in this country , they also flaunt the general laws of the land. This makes me really angry and sad about the state of our country.

I now find it difficult to speak up for Malaysia when there are arguments comparing Malaysia to other countries. It is sad that we can have the once world tallest building and still think like we came out of the jungle yesterday.

My Personal Big Sad Day today

MS

181 Replies to “Tolerance my ass!”

  4. Oh yeah! this is outrageous! Please tell the cops that they should stop this nonsense and concentrate in solving crimes and not stirring up issues.

    High time we have an Army coup and put them to shame for not carrying out they work well!!!

    The streets are not safe, the homes are not safe and here they are creating more chaos.

    Why can’t a muslim eat in such shops? Well if it is not catered for them..don’t eat. Simple! It is the shopkeeper’s income not the police income…right?

    So silly!

  5. Kalau tak suka, KELUAR!

    No one forces them to eat there if they cant accept it. SO does it mean that every restaurant hv to cater to them? SO no more non-halal food in the future bcos they cant eat?

    I think these are those over-employed and hv nothing better to do.

  7. The sad thing is there will be more and more of this until we become more and more like Saudi Arabia where all must stop work on the call to prayer or get whacked. When it comes to religion the moderate and the liberal although in the majority have no voice as they are the sinners.

  9. The only cause of concern with altars could be health related – for example if they burn joss-sticks at a high level the soot could get into the food.

    Also food offerings may be left too long and start to decay.
    I wonder what authority JAWI officers have in a non-Muslim shop?

  10. These days, living in this country is like living in a nightmare that doesn’t seems to go away. It is no mere wonder that I have stopped inviting my Muslim friends to my house for Christmas or any auspicious occasions for fear of being apprehended for propagating Christianity to them.

  13. i do hope that YB LKS will bring this to the relevant authority and check the authenticity of this report. Maybe JAWI (must be in Wilayah) can repsonse to this. The complainant on the other must be gentlemen enough to go to the right authority …. letting YB LKS posting it in his blog lacked authenticity …. AS it is now, I doubt if the Govt. is taking this blog seriously. just another twick in the back.

  15. The best thing that the shop owners can do is to bring the matter up to the MIC and see what they can do to help.
    If the former choose to keep quiet, then there’s nothing that anybody can do.

  16. Uncle Kit, can you bring this up to the personal attention of aab – let’s see if he will dare do something about this. I do believe the jawi officers will find their match somewhere, sometime – they are accountable to their almighty god anyway.

  17. I would hope that the majority of Muslims in this country do not believe and feel that this is appropriate action. Isn’t it sad that the current government does not curtail, and possibly condones, such behaviour in order to cause division between the races and religions to fuel their selfish and corrupt agenda? I still believe that Malaysians do not bear inherent dislike and distrust between races and religions, unlike the many other countries where conflicts are centuries old with deep rooted dislike and distrust. Divisiveness along racial or religious lines enables exploitation to suit an agenda of political and economic control – but distracts the country from real nation building issues.

  18. According to MS, “the shop is not a mamak shop. It is an Indian Banana leaf shop” meaning the eatery establishment is not a muslim one (though muslims may patronize it where it is pork free).

    Now, the powers of JAWI officers too can only be exercised over Muslims as may be conferred under The Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act 1993 (“Islamic Act”).

    So what is the JAWI officer writing out a writ and giving it to the cashier for? Just throw it in the waste paper basket. What can they do? They can only prosecute the owner of the Indian Banana leaf shop in a Sharia court but if the owner is not a Muslim, the Sharia court has no jurisdiction to try him.

    To not allow the shop owner to “have their little altars and pictures of their deities in their shop because otherwise, Muslims cannot come into their shops” is to infringe the owner’s constitutional right under article 8 of the Constitution to freedom of religion.

    If anything like having “little altars and pictures of their deities” that may stop Muslims from coming into the eatery/shops were prohibited, what’s next – will owners of Chinese restaurants serving pork be issued a similar writ to stop serving pork for otherwise “Muslims cannot come into their shops”?

    The government should keep these overzealous officers in check. I don’t think the Islamic Act confers them such powers. I believe these JAWI officers are misguided and had exceeded their powers.

    Every legal power must have legal limits, otherwise there is dictatorship, in this case an Islamic dictatorship.

    YB, you should establish with the Indian Banana shops whether what MS said is true and if so raise this in Parliament. Ask Samy Vellu what he thinks.

  20. What it this? These JAWI ppl really lost their mind? What are they thinking? Try to show the public that they are doing something? Another group of “little Napolean”?

    Hello? Are these JAWI ppl living in M’sia or Saudi? U tak suka, u boleh keluar, jangan makan di sini. Easy.

  21. Nature always have its’ way to neutralize whatever effects which defer from its actual medium of existence. So, looking at our current situation, are going to continue ignoring our surrounding, waiting for the neutralization to occur which maybe a living hell or try playing a part in this defering circumstances?
    If playing a part is our desire, so, complaining and deminishing our collaboration is a wise choice? or focusing to compliment all differences, clearing the misunderstood teachings and compose all into One is a better choice? Its’ ours decision, everyones play a role for better or worst.

  22. Just cos the non muslims have no right to ask about muslims issues, the JAWI guys are being overzealous and think they can do whatever they want on the name of Islam and stepping on your freedom is nothing to them cos they do not belief in your rights nor the constitution.

    o MCA, MIC, Gerakan…where are you buggers who voted for various laws that took away the rights of the non muslims??

  23. This is what happens when there is no leadership from the top. Our PM has done this country a lot of injustice by not being more hands-on.

    Mahathir for all the wrong that he did viz. cronyism and corruption, would have acted to stop the rot. Instead this PM chooses to be the country’s Head of State instead of the country’s head of the executive branch, and acts only when he is prompted to do so by those below him, his advisers etc

    There is no leadership and this is what troubles everybody.

  24. “The government should keep these overzealous officers in check. I don’t think the Islamic Act confers them such powers. I believe these JAWI officers are misguided and had exceeded their powers.” Jeffrey

    Are you sure?? Have another look.

  26. There are constitutional issues here. I hope some constitutional lawyer would take on those issues pro bono. Malaysians would be interested to know how the highest court in the land would react to that. This is not a matter such as apostasy that lies squarely within the jurisdiction of the syariah court. In fact I think it does not lie at all in the jurisdiction of such courts.

    So no jurisdictional issue, only constitutional.

  28. Am I wrong, or are the other posters blind ?
    To me, this has nothing to do with Taliban or religion. To me, it has all to make with success in business. It is not the only issue and neither the first, where religion is used as a vehicle to slow down businesses not owned by those considered ‘deserving’. Where ‘deserve’ applies rather to an ethnicity than a religion; though both go in synchronism in this case.

    In short, this activity by JAWI officers is not genuinely based on religion, but on successful business activities of the ‘wrong’ people.

  30. Could it be that there is now a campaign to systematically demolish Hindu Banana Leaf restaurants too, because the number of Hindu temples (legal and/or illegal) not yet demolished are getting fewer and fewer due to the rounds of temple demolitions in recent times?

    On a seriouser note, JAWI is tasked not with inspecting eating establishments, whether for premises inspection, fire, safety and health compliance, licences inspections, even illegal immigrant workers, and whatever else.

    It will also be very interesting to look at and read the “writ”, summons, notice or infringement notice (whatever it is called) and read into it to see what authority issued it, under what section or sub-section etc of which civil legislation, by-law, or any other Bandaraya regulation had been infringed. Maybe, but let’s hope, it’s written in romanised BM, and not in the Jawi script.??

    If I, reasonably, deduce that the “writ” is headed under the authority of some Islamic enforcement agency (obviously, because it was written, presumably signed and served over by the JAWI officer, acording to MS), I would say without any hesitation that the supposed offence or infringement for which the “writ” was issued would be in the nature of an Islamic/Muslim infringement. Since the recipient can be safely assumed to be non-Muslim (otherwise the rsturant would’ve ben called a mamak restaurant), and hence not in any way coming under, let alone be punishable, under Islamic regulations, then the “writ” would be null and void.

    The only place for the “writ” then would be to use it to wipe where the sun don’t shine.

  33. Who is this person MS? How true is this person comment?
    GE is near, maybe someone try to play racial feeling. Someone try to make racial tension just to frighten Chinese and Indians so all Chinese and Indians will vote for BN again. All BN members know that majority of Chinese will surely vote against them because Chinese are not happy with whats going on now, like the keris issue, JB, NEP and etc. So hope that DAP will not fall in BN trap, maybe this person MS is BN agent assign by Samy to create racial tension!! Remember BN Samy, Nazri, Zakaria, Bung, Said, KJ and others, they are thick skin and can do anything just to win vote in next GE! Good luck YB Lim, DAP will always get my vote, no doubt!

  34. MS, i think it is a sad day for the rest of us too, having to read this. Malaysia used to be the ‘tanah tumpahnya darahku’, now it seems so many of us are literally crying tears of blood. I know i sound dramatic, but really, i feel so sad to think that my children will never enjoy the same interracial friendships that i had and still have with my childhood friends. We were always at each others house, eating food from each other’s tables…These morons go around implementing their skewed ideas and regulations, and the rest of us, the normal sitis, siew lings and mayas ( sorry for the feminist streak!) we are driven further apart. Malaysia truly Asia, when i see that advertisement here, it sickens me to the core. Make it Malaysia truly Malaysia first. God bless us Malaysians and protect us from these people who think they are Gods.

  35. I am a Malay and a Muslim and I DETEST this despicable act by JAWI. You are right YM Lim in questioning if any religious tolerance is practised in this country. Everyday they are coming up with outragious actions to justify their existence.

  36. “t will also be very interesting to look at and read the “writ”, summons, notice or infringement notice (whatever it is called) and read into it to see what authority issued it, under what section or sub-section etc of which civil legislation, by-law, or any other Bandaraya regulation had been infringed.” WFH

    Yes. Their legal adviser must have advised these enforcement officers from JAWI on the legality of their actions. Since a writ has been issued we must assume that the proper application has been made to the syariah court for its issuance.

    We wait with bated breath for Jeffrey QC who is now studying the Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act 1993 (“Islamic Act”) for his expert opinion.

    Jeffrey?? Are you there?

  37. Pingback: Can’t we all ever eat together? « Buffaroach

  38. yeah…saudara Kit, you better make sure MS is telling the truth. I doubt whether can anyone be so stupid to tellthat you cannot have altar where you earn a livelihood.

    Wonder, if they are going to to tell Hari Krishna restaurant to remove all the stuff from the restaurant.

    Verify first. I doubt it actually happened unless they were checking for fake halal logo.

  42. Kit,

    You would do well to check it out as hindsight shows this appears to be an over reaction to a summons to the restaurant owner for non-compliance with some by-laws.

    He mentions ‘writing out a writ’. You must have known that this could not have been a writ.

  43. What has MIC to say about thing? I guess nothing as Samy must be still reeling over his poetry copycat fiasco. I don’t expect MIC to say anything anyway, as they don’t really care about anything concerning their own community except for their own pockets

  44. These Jawi [deleted] don’t realise that they are paid with taxpayers money.
    May i remind them that not all taxpayers are muslims.
    that equates to you [deleted] being paid by non-muslim’s money.
    if you [deleted] cannot make sense out of this, stop collecting your salaries and live on fresh air and sunshine.

    ENDANGERED HORNBILL Says:

    June 27th, 2007 at 16: 54.52
    What’s this on S’pore STI online which has since been deleted!
    Asia | 4:14 PM
    M’sia stiffens penalties to stifle Muslim conversions?
    Anybody knows?

    Which day was it posted, i’ll help you check it out here.

  45. “They then left. Curious, I asked the cashier what that was all about and he replied that they were not allowed to have their little altars and pictures of their deities in their shop “because otherwise, Muslims cannot come into their shops.” MS

    “Muslims cannot come into their shops”??

    Of course that is an excuse but it is to make non-Muslim eating places popular with the public comply with Article 3 of the Constitution which provides for Islam as the “official religion of the federation.”

    It has nothing to do with the legitimate rights of non-Muslims and non-Malays to practice their religion!

  47. Watched an Australian TV channel interview by a Bristish reporter on one of the Bali Bombers who was caught recently. When asked if he would kill him (the reporter) because he was white, the bomber smiled and said since his British government was involved, the answer was YES.
    Islam, alas, can be so narrowly and easily interpreted that it borders on a cult. As if their god is so scared of mere ‘deities’ and ‘idols’ that muslims must see to it that these are not openly displayed!
    And they claimed that islam is a peaceful religion.
    Hate cannot be appeased by hate; hate can only be appeased by love. And this is a universal law beyond the realm of any almighty.

  50. If it is proven that these extremists elements has no legal jurisdiction, next time if they come around again, treat them like a bunch of trouble causers trespassing on your property and business. And you know what the law allows you to do to protect your property and business? Teach them a lesson they will never forget and make them curse the day they were ever born.

    Remember an incident years ago when those white robed Islamic fanatics went round burning Indian temples in Selangor?

  51. “As if their god is so scared of mere ‘deities’ and ‘idols’ that muslims must see to it that these are not openly displayed!” taikohtai

    What if I tell you that Moses a prophet to all three great religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam was so angry with the use of idols when he came down from Mt. Sanai that he broke the stone tablet containing the 10 commandments!?

    Stone idols (not American Idol) is a no-no to Jews and Muslims – both strong believers of the Old Testament. Even a photograph according to some is a no-no but this is controversial.

  52. As for Christianity, only the Catholic Church uses images of the Lord and Saviour and the saints. Other Christian denominations do not use stone images of the son of God – only the use of the Cross as a symbol of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus the son of God.

  53. gather your wealth! earn as much as you can… and then leave.. there are many better places out there… melbourne, auckland, switzerland, singapore, uk…or the states…or you can move to manchester!!!!!

  54. If those JAWI officers are correct, then the assessment, taxes(like sales tax, income taxes, road tax and etc), quit rent and etc paid by non muslim must not be used to pay their salary, built amenities as they are non halal.

  55. kit, i fear for the country. at least we have you to make all the noise, to provide some form or check and balance if you will, no matter how pale in comparison this compared to the amount of rubbish these people are dishing out each day. my only wish is dat you start grooming a protege, someone who will fight for a malaysian malaysia. if you can, pls groom a hundred. even with you around things are getting from bad to worse, drawing us back 40years. i dread to think what will happen in 10years time if the current situation continues. please, someone, save malaysia.

  56. I only have this to say. Actually Malays are very nice people if you know them. It is the politicians who are taking care of themselves financially and otherwise, and the religious leaders who are screwing up this lovely country with their own beliefs and actions.

  59. Well first of all I’m new here so if my response is a bit astray help me out will ya? OK, I honestly think that those JAWI ppl are a bunch of ignorant ppl cos they don’t even know their teachings. There’s no such impulsions like that in the Quran or even the Hadith so where in the hell did they learn it from? We’ve been dealing with too much religious discriminations don’t you think YB? Do something and help us believe in whatever faith that we want… TQ

  61. This time eateries are being targetted by JAWI. Next will come sundry shops, hardware shops and other non muslim businesses. Many of these have altars. Does it mean that muslims can’t patronise these shops? Wow, the country is afganistan the second.
    Sure malaysia boleh – boleh imitate the taliban.

  62. ///a group of JAWI officers entered the premises. 10 officers to be exact,///

    Whatever they did in a premise, did they need ten officers? They are government servants, and I wonder what services these officers have performed for the benefit of the country. Why do they need 10 persons to do the job of inspection which require not more than one person? Were the 9 other officers providing security in performing a ‘sensitive’ job? Maybe it is because there were actually no specific beneficial work for these officers to perform that they chose to abuse the authority to bother the restaurant, to kill the time during office hour.

    If that is an example of staff deployment in government service, we can safely conclude that the government service is bloated. That is why civil servants cannot be paid the right wages for them to do the job expected, and those in the lower rung had to take additional jobs to make ends meet.
    How Malaysia has turned into a Bolehland. Another anticipated result of NEP.

  64. “If those JAWI officers are correct, then the assessment, taxes(like sales tax, income taxes, road tax and etc), quit rent and etc paid by non muslim must not be used to pay their salary, built amenities as they are non halal.”

    This is no laughing matter. It is a real issue with them. They were debating on whether proceeds from illegal activities are ‘halal’ or ‘haram.’ For example, a hotel owned by them. They are in business and business means they must cater to the needs of their clientèle or lose the business to competitors. In the hotel business it is impossible to separate the proceeds from the sale of liquor sold to non-Muslims from the rest of the revenue.

    So some of them thought of ways to make legal what are illegal proceeds from activities which are not legal – much like money laundering!

  65. “These Jawi [deleted] don’t realise that they are paid with taxpayers money.”

    The tax payers don’t pay them. The government does. Where does the government get the funds to pay them? That is between the government and the tax payers.

    Kapish???

  66. See those idiots are spoilt! Baru naik gaji and they go on their rounds again.

    I am quite sure they would have with a promise to
    “help” the owner of the eatery. Boleh tolong punya, senang selesai, you tolong kami lah.

  68. “I honestly think that those JAWI ppl are a bunch of ignorant ppl cos they don’t even know their teachings.”

    They are not a bunch of ignorant people who do not know their own teachings. Ignorant they are not. Misguided maybe.

    Hey, these are enforcement officers and being officers who deal with enforcement for a living they will need to be seen doing their jobs. Or else the Department will be facing budget cuts!

    Would you not do the same to protect your job and provide sustenance to your family?

  69. “Why do they need 10 persons to do the job of inspection which require not more than one person?”

    There is strength in numbers? Perhaps it is only fair that all 10 get to enjoy the allowances that come with field work rather than two?

  70. Diaperhead wrote:

    “You can always place altars and other religious symbols away from public view. Nothing to do with religious tolerance or intolerance.”

    This was a private establishment run by non-Muslims. If you feel offended by Hindu idols and altars, kindly abstain from patronizing the restaurant then.

    You religious fanatics have a thing or two to learn about tolerance in a multi-cultural society.

  71. “If I, reasonably, deduce that the “writ” is headed under the authority of some Islamic enforcement agency (obviously, because it was written, presumably signed and served over by the JAWI officer, acording to MS)”

    I think only the court issues a writ. But a summons can be issued by law enforcement officers. They have what you refer to as delegated authority.

  72. “This was a private establishment run by non-Muslims. If you feel offended by Hindu idols and altars, kindly abstain from patronizing the restaurant then.” lchk

    True. It is not a question of taking offense from the presence of religious symbols placed in private property like your house. An eatery or restaurant or whatever has an standing invitation to all as visitors. Some of these visitors (and I am using the word ‘visitor’ in a legal sense as opposed to ‘trespassers’) may order their food and then notice the presence of for example Chinese altars used for praying or Vishnu or the Goddess of Money or Jesus staring at them. What then?? Of course it is their fault.

    But what of Article 3 of the Federal Constitution which states that Islam is the ‘religion of the federation’? Are these empty words??

  75. To DiaperHead

    Your name is APT. You are wearing a diaper at the right place, where your head should have been.

    The overzealous Jawi officials may concentrate on non-Muslim restaurants for now…but whose to say that next they wouldn’t go towards other businesses as well? And from business, towards personal clothings and accessories? After all…they already stooped low enough to kidnap dead bodies and babies.

    I bet you and your cronies made alot of noise when the purdah was remarked upon or banned in western countries like the UK, Netherlands or France…or closer to home like Singapore where…so with what grounds are you insisting the non-Muslims must adhere to your own set of rules like hiding our alters from public eye? Do you want our temples and churches also to be covered up so it wouldn’t pollute your “iman”??….oh wait…you burn and raze them instead…and make it so difficult to be built in the first place…

    As time passes, all these will lead to what you see in Afganistan…where ancient statues are blown up because it is deemed sinful to be living in a vicinity where other faiths are being practiced so openly! And school girls in Saudi are left to die in their burning building coz they were not wearing the “proper” clothing during the fire and firemen were stopped from helping them!

  76. YB Kit,

    This is the first time I post a comment in your blogsite and I’m sure it will not be the last.

    I’m what constitution of Malaysia describe as Malay and by default my religion is Islam. I’ve lived overseas half of my life and I couldn’t recall telling people out there I’m Malay, cause I feel more Malaysian than Malay.

    I didn’t check any race box in any of the forms that I need to fill because:
    1. They don’t need to know what race I am just to get streamyx.
    2. I don’t see a point to.
    3. I feel it’s a redundant question.

    I’ve gone to Church for one of my good friend’s wedding and that didn’t make me less of a Muslim. (Sure, if some Malay newspaper caught me in the act it’ll make a big headline the next day, but so what?)

    My best friends are mostly Chinese and I hang out mostly with non-Malays (be it Chinese, Indian, Eurasian etc) and only few Malays I consider them as friends. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not racists or anything, just comfortable being surrounded by people who accept me the way I am, that’s all.

    I went to Mandarin kindergarten and spent first 3 years of Primary education in Chinese school. I go to Raju in PJ to get my banana leaf fix.

    What we have today is the greatest violation of human rights.
    1. The right of the shop owner to do business peacefully.
    2. The right of shop owner to show respect to his/her beliefs.
    3. Abusing power given by the (corrupt) authority.
    and the list goes on and on.

    Since when JAWI is involved in business premises enforcement? I am sick and ashamed by these officers who doesn’t know any boundaries and respect to other fellow Malaysian.

    I have to agree with few comments in here. If they found the idols of other religion is offensive, then leave the place. No one is putting a gun to their head to eat there. What has become to this country?

    The Government are really playing with fire here. When someone is on the hot seat on 4th Flr (or anywhere else in BN for that matter), they are playing racial cards to divide Malaysian. If this report is authentic, it is bad for the country. This is sad. Pathetic is the perfect word to describe our state of nation.

  77. Dear Mr. Lim Kit Siang,

    Some have suggested that you meet and bring up this matter with our PM, but if what I read is right, you may have to come up with 50K before you might even get the chance to see him.

    and since most the time, our PM has not been attending Parliament sessions, whom would be addressing the matter with in the next Parliament session soon?

    One of His(Ministers or Office Boys) at the Prime Minister’s Department?

    Mmmm, that would even be a much tougher battle for you, because you would be accused of spreading rumours from the Internet without any proofs to begin with, and you or your comrades might again be barked at repeated, and abused by you know who, as “Bodoh! Itu semua bohong! Khabar Angin Dari Internet! Mana Itu Bukti! Bodoh! Bodoh! Bodoh!…”

  78. If anyone thinks that MS story is unbelievable, please think twice!! If you had studied in mission schools before, please go back there and take a look and you would be surprised by all the “good works” done by the Muslim Principles and Principles who followed the instructions from the MOE in islamising the schools, sorry to say that the church people are the ones who had tolerated all these islamisation in the mission schools by keeping quiet!!some of these schools principles had instructed that all the crosses be taken down from the roof tops even though the schools are still the properties of the churches but they longer have any say in running the schools!!!

  79. The meaning of religious tolerance in this country is that the minority faith has to tolerate the nonsense of the majority faith!!! e.g. They can make five calls a day using the loud speakers with mega amplifiers through out the day and expect every one to listen to that without complaining even though you have to work night shift or just want to rest peacefully without any noise!!! just imaging doing this with your faith and you will know what will be the consequences!!! mind you, they do this even in areas where they are the minority!!

  80. JAWI, MAWI, SAWI [deleted]…. all sounds the same. Religious and racial persecution. The future of our country is in OUR hands. We keep barking and whining and bitching about everyone and everything but come election day, we become spineless cowards who are reluctant to rock the boat and sell our principles and values for RM 100 duit kopi! IT IS IN OUR HANDS!!!

  81. What we need to find out is whether these summons issued by JAWI is valid or not valid. The head of JAWI must speak out so that everyone can understand what is the rational behind its officers’ action. The public deserves an explanation and whatever reasons it better be good. I hope Raja Nazrin can do something about it.

  82. Pingback: Jay’s Weblog » Blog Archive » Religious zealots in Malaysia

  83. “This was a private establishment run by non-Muslims. If you feel offended by Hindu idols and altars, kindly abstain from patronizing the restaurant then.”

    Except for the fact that Islam is the religion of the federation: Art. 3 Federal Constitution 1957.

    Go amend the Constitution to make it secular.

  84. this does not mean about religion only….this means our country going nowhere and the system collapsing.

    only desperate nation will end up this way, cant imagine what more these religious zealots will do when the government cannot pay their salaries.

    discrimination in our country has reduced jobs, thus jobs are forced to be given to certain groups for political reasons and worse still, creating more useless and unproductive positions like those ruthless religious disciplinary officers, to plug possible uprisings.

    unless our country realises the meaning of “white cat, black cat, the one catches the mice is a good cat” we simply on the way to the graveyards.

    many chinese youths now are whiling away their times in mamak stalls, day and night…. my friend, this is not a good sign… they may become……i don’t know, i really don’t know BUT definitely will not be good.

  85. http://howsy.blogspot.com/2007/06/bedolling-around-world-in-80-visits.html

    Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has made 80 official and working visits overseas since 2004, the Dewan Rakyat was told.

    And Malaysia’s Global Standing has been enhanced by these 80 visits:
    1. Tier 3 or one of the countries in the worst category in the US state department’s annual Trafficking In Persons 2007 report.
    2. Ranked 44 in TI Corruption Perception Index 2006.
    3. Third rudest city in Reader’s Digest 2006 survey.
    4. Ranked 4/7 as ‘Partly Free Country’, the same as Bangladesh, Burkina Faso and Kuwait.
    5. Listed in one of the countries using torture- 2004/2005, in the same league as Iran and Iraq.
    6. Ranked 156 in the May 2007 FIFA Football World Ranking, the same as Grenada and Myanmar.

  86. “……Except for the fact that Islam is the religion of the federation: Art. 3 Federal Constitution 1957…..Go amend the Constitution to make it secular….//….” – DiaperHead.

    The Constitution may not be entirely secular – actually it is like a hybrid – in the sense that it allows the official religion Islam to be promoted by the government but this has always been taken to apply in the context of promoting it amongst those Malaysians of Muslim faith without encroachments and impediments being imposed on other Malaysians of a different faiths by virtue of article 8 of the same Constitution. Otherwise why have article 8?

    If one compares the situation in 1957 until recently, notwithstanding article 3 of the Federal Constitution, one did not hear of altars and deities in Indian Banana Leaf have having been subject to such official harassment until this incident (if true). Are we saying that the incident reflects the true purport and meaning of Article 3 and that the tolerance of other faiths all this while is wrong or inconsistent with that article?

    This cannot be. Like what I earlier said, if the promulgators of the Constitution had intended article 3 to pave the way to this country to become an Islamic State, why have an article 8 (Freedom of Religion) that an Islamic State does not ordinarily have – and why does this government keep preaching tolerance (whether or not the words were matched by deeds)?

    It is article of faith and tenet upon which the multiracial harmony of this country is built that all should bear the responsibilities of sensitive and tolerant of each other faiths and no practice of faiths other than the Official religion may be otherwise suppressed or repressed even if the government utilises substantial resources to promote the Official faith amongst Muslims of this country.

    From these perspectives the alleged act of JAWI officers, if true, are regressive and reactionary, contrary to ethos of tolerance for nation building adopted and accepted by all communities since the birth of this nation, and the fact that certain sections of the Muslim Community think differently and would like the complete Islamisation of this Country does not make it right, correct or justified by a selective citation of Article 3 without regard to why Article 8 is there!

    As I have said earlier, JAWI can enforce laws and practices prescribed for Muslims but they have no jurisdiction or powers to do so in relation to non Muslims which is what this incident entails when a summon (described “writ” by MS) was issued.

    If one is talking of the Banana Leaf restaurant owner is doing things (like having deities and altars) offensive to the sensitivities of Muslims, the owner should be taken to task by either MPAJA (municipal/licensing authorities) or even the police under sedition provisions) but certainly not JAWI officers who can only prosecute and charge a Muslim in a Syariah Court, which has no jurisdiction over Non Muslims.

    Let us not use the authority of Article 3 to make an apologetic defense for the misguided acts of petty bureaucratic officials who deem fit to out their duties in an overzealous manner in excess of their powers and contrary to the very ethos upon which the fabric of multi-racial and inter-religious harmony is forged so far in the country.

  87. I do agree however with the observation that it is the perception of weak political leadership at the top, and the perception by people like JAWI officers that they could get away with doing anything in advancement of their authority and agenda with impunity without resistence is probably the explanation why Islamic authorities could expand their power and influence so quickly and easily with necessary encroachment into the sphere of the rights and freedom of moderate Muslims and non Muslims of late.

  89. This is precisely why Tunku Abdul Rahman was against Islamic state. He was worried about those who were weak and did not have true faith in the religion. He knew the dangers of these people no matter what the religion was and he loved his religion too much to subject it to abuse by the blasphemous.

    Tunku undestand that ultimately its the separation of power, the core differences between him and Dr. M that can stand the test of time -separation of religious and state power and the three branches of government.

    Islamic state has got nothing to with the afterlife but about the greed and other human weakness of the current life.

  90. LKS the opposition should really get their act together and present a united and confident party that the rakyat and vote and stand tall together. Now is the best time to go forth and defeated the BN. The internet has open up a whole new world of awareness never seen before, the public educated, the public saw, read and mourn. Nothing is hidden in darkness now. Mr Lim your battle has been a long and lonely struggle now is the time to capture the glory and perserve as ahead remains the last leg of the race. Mussle up the remaining ounce of energy and sprint forward dont give up!! BN leaders are laughing now and ridiculing us but in the end the righteous shall have the last laugh.

  91. Jawi has no jurisdiction in issuing the writ. We know it, but not all Indian banana leave shop owners know it. Some of them are hardworking people, without much education, trying very hard to come up in life.

    It’s time to teach Jawi [deleted] a lesson that they can’t simple mess around and make a example to the rest.

    Can a civil case be put up against the Jawi people, for harrassing the public? Sue them for millions for the unreasoanble mental torture.

    Talking in Parliment is not good enough. Let’s create mental torture to them.

  92. Can the Jawi bastards be sued in civil court? They have created undue mental torture to the shopowners. Sue them for millions.

    Talking in Parliment is not enough. Let’s give them the same pain.

  93. “……Except for the fact that Islam is the religion of the federation: Art. 3 Federal Constitution 1957…..Go amend the Constitution to make it secular….//….” – DiaperHead.

    Does this mean we cannot place altars in our own private premises ?

    Does this mean we need to place pictures of kaabah in our offices, eating places or business outlet even though we are not Muslim ?
    Or worse, the business is non-halal ?

    Totally illogical, Islam as the official religion DOES NOT imply that we cannot honour our own religions in premises that we own, be it that the altars or any other apparatus of worship is viewable publicly.

    WHAT KIND OF CRAP U TOKING ABT DIAPERHEAD ?

  94. Not everywhere is freedom taken away and religious fascism imposed as radically and drastically as the Iranian Revolution led by Ayatollah Khomeini ousting the Shah.

    More, often the enemies of freedom seeking to subvert Constitution and thwart and redefine its framers’ intentions according to their agenda will advance their agenda piecemeal, inch by inch, pausing at each juncture to evaluate whether they can get away with that initiative/step un-resisted so that each little step advanced and marginal progress is used as a new starting point to take further steps nearer towards their final goal.

    You see, the trick is a marginal advance in each instance is by definition too insignificant by itself and therefore has the advantage of the likelihood of being achieved quietly and impartibly un-resisted – so that over time, an aggregation of countless unremembered advancements would constitute major milestone attained, a reversal of which by those opposed to this ‘creeping’ agenda becomes difficult if not impossible short of subjecting the whole system to be on tethers and the brink of being torn asunder…..

    It therefore behooves all peoples cherishing freedom to be vigilant of their rights and to resist passionately each initiative and to try stopping each marginal advance and if possible rolling it back.

    Otherwise, the Constitution and the government will eventually be in the grasp and controls of religious extremist and fanatics to the detriment of all.

  95. If JAWI can storm into Indian restaurants and do this, my question is what is the difference when NAzis storm into Jewish restaurants and turn their tables?

    JAWI=NAZI???

    We just have to remove this Pak LAh and BN. It’s an unadulterated case of the blind leading the blind – whatever HADHARI may mean!

  96. How can we publicise this? Let everyone know, what’s happening. It seems that there is a media blackout on things like this…cause the newspapers are afraid.

    Somehow, I have this gut feeling that when this happens, these JAWI people will deny such incident ever happened.

    Malaysia… living in denial and full of pride, and outside people cannot comment.

  97. I like JeffOoi’s Merdeka 1234 wish list in today’s Screenshots:

    “With two months away from the 50th anniversary of Merdeka, I outlined my biggest wishlist for the next 50 years of nationhood.

    Let’s do away with Malaysians 1234. We have to abolish all forms of forms that demand you to fill in ( 1 ) for Malay; ( 2 ) for Chine; ( 3 ) for Indian; and ( 4 ) Lain-lain for the field of race.

    Forging a Bangsa Malaysia, the media and civil society should make sure that it’s not all form over substance.”

    For those unfamiliar with Shakespeare’s “Merchant of Venice”, here is one of Shakepeare’s timeless quotable quotes when Shylock, a victim of deep racial prejudice, eloquently demanded that a pound of flesh be cut from Antonio nearest to his heart:

    ‘To bait fish withal: if it will feed nothing else, it will feed my revenge. He hath disgraced me, and hindered me half a million; laughed at my losses; mocked at my gains, scorned my nation, thwarted my bargains, cooled my friends, heated my enemies: and what’s his reason? I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winters and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed, if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? if we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a Christian, what is his humility? Revenge: if a Christian wrong a Jew, what should his sufferance be by Christian example? why, revenge. The villainy you teach me, I will execute; and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.”

    Whether it be racial hatred and prejudice or religious intolerance and persecution, they will tear a nation at its seams!

    Now I will tell you a simple fact why Malayisa will descend and scrape the bottom of the barrel in the economy of nations: because race and religion have been used to divide the people and further politically bigoted aims. Countries like Vietnam will eventually rise because they don’t bicker and bludgeon each other and waste useful resources chasing hopeless racially-biased programs.

    Malaysia must reverse its doomed course through resolute political leadership or slip gradually into being a pariah nation…literally, through brain drain, weak and incompetent human capital, loss of FDI, wastage of national resources, corruption, divisive national policies, religious bigotry etc…

    Over 400 years ago, Shakespeare saw the cruelty and doom that accompanies racism.

    Malaysia, does it take us over 400 years to learn racial integration. The earliest Chinese like Admiral Cheng Ho had sailed to this peninsula in the 15th Century?

  98. Malaysians have been keeping pictures and idols in restaurants for a long time since Merdeka and the Constitution. There is no conflict between doing so and recognising that Islam is the religion of the Federation. The extremists among Muslims are trying to reinterpret the constitution to suit Islamic state agendas. These people must be challenged at every turn or they would take our silence as assent.

  99. I believe the “Social Contract” has been articulated thus:

    // It recognises “the special position of the Malays,” Malay as the national language, Islam as religion of the state, the Malay rulers as constitutional monarchs, and non-Malays rights of citizenship and freedom to practise their religion, language and culture. //

    Islam as religion of the state is just one leg of the bargain. It is not THE religion or the the ONLY religion allowed. There is also the guarantee of non-Malays rights of citizenship and FREEDOM to practise their RELIGION….

    face_value – if only there are more Malays like you…

  100. If what this man claimed is nothing but the truth, then a very serious Constitutional issue has just happened. As some commenters have put it, which article/law of the Federation of Malaysia give JAWI the authority to conduct such action? If there is none, then these officers had committed some ‘constitutional crime’ and as the Constitution is the highest law of the land, severe action/punishment must be meted out. If the action of JAWI is constitutionally wrong while the rights of those affected banana leaf restaurants’ owner are enshrined in the Constitution, then what JAWI did is definitely a ‘contempt of the Constitution’, challenging the social contract agreed upon by our forefathers, ‘raping’ these owners’ right to their freedom to practice the religion of their choice, stirring/ignoring the sensitivities of the fragile multi-religious society (reason why inter-faith dialogue are not allowed) etc. etc. Contempt of court is serious and we have seen heavy punishment for that, therefore, I don’t see why contempt of the Constitution should be allowed.

    I don’t remember any such incidents during the previous administrations (correct me if I’m wrong, maybe I was too young then), even during Mahathir’s administration (who has been accused of ‘corrupting’ the Constitution and branded as Pharoah by certain people). This surely would leave a black episode for AAB administration. Unless this problem is tackle properly before it become widespread (in the sense that before more such incidents happen), there is a possibility that the current administration would go down in history as a anti non-Muslim administration.

  101. // ENDANGERED HORNBILL Says:
    June 27th, 2007 at 16: 54.52
    What’s this on S’pore STI online which has since been deleted!
    Asia | 4:14 PM
    M’sia stiffens penalties to stifle Muslim conversions?
    Anybody knows? //

    Must be about this story …

    27/06: Tougher law for Malaysia converts
    Category: General Posted by: Raja Petra
    Al Jazeera

    The only opposition-ruled state in Malaysia has approved stiffer penalties to deter people from trying to convert Muslims to other faiths.

    Under the revised law passed by Kelantan state, anyone found guilty faces a maximum penalty of six lashes with a rattan cane, five years in prison and a fine of almost $3,000.

    Kelantan is the only Malaysian state led by the opposition Islamist party, PAS.

    Hassan Mohamood, who heads Kelantan’s Islamic affairs committee, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that the stiffer laws are useful “as a form of deterrence”.

    The previous maximum penalty was two years in prison and a fine of RM5,000 ($1,400).

    Proselytising of Muslims is forbidden under federal laws, but the recent case of Line Joy, a Malay-Muslim woman who sought legal recognition of her right to pick her religion of choice, raised fears among some in Malaysia over mass conversion.

    Attempts to convert Muslims to other faiths are rare, and people found guilty face prison terms in most states in the country where nearly 60 per cent of its 27 million people are ethnic Malay Muslims.

    Religious conflicts

    The amended penalties in Kelantan, where PAS has been in control since 1990, are believed to be the heaviest nationwide.

    In Malaysia, Islam comes under state-level jurisdiction and religious authorities often send Malay Muslims who try to convert out for counselling and rehabilitation.

    Some have also been imprisoned for apostasy.

    In the Lina Joy case, the woman who was born to Muslim parents failed to get the country’s highest civil court to recognise her right to choose her own faith.

    The Malaysian constitution guarantees freedom of worship for all citizens but the country’s parallel Islamic legal system often gives rise to religious conflicts.

    Malaysia has large ethnic Chinese and Indian minorities that mostly practice Buddhism, Christianity and Hinduism.

  103. Diaperhead wrote:

    “True. It is not a question of taking offense from the presence of religious symbols placed in private property like your house. An eatery or restaurant or whatever has an standing invitation to all as visitors. Some of these visitors (and I am using the word ‘visitor’ in a legal sense as opposed to ‘trespassers’) may order their food and then notice the presence of for example Chinese altars used for praying or Vishnu or the Goddess of Money or Jesus staring at them. What then?? Of course it is their fault.

    But what of Article 3 of the Federal Constitution which states that Islam is the ‘religion of the federation’? Are these empty words??”

    If you had any sense in you, Article 3 is NOT a big stick meant to be wielded by islamo-facists to supress those who practise other faiths.

    That is why Article 8 exists, as pointed out by some in this thread.

  105. Abuse of power and dereliction of duty propagates when the victims are ignorant of their rights. Paying a little to settle the hassles of having to make official complaints seems to be the norm for petty traders nowadays. Whose duty is it to propagate awareness of basic rights ? Bar Council ?

  106. megaman wrote:

    “Totally illogical, Islam as the official religion DOES NOT imply that we cannot honour our own religions in premises that we own, be it that the altars or any other apparatus of worship is viewable publicly.

    WHAT KIND OF CRAP U TOKING ABT DIAPERHEAD ?”

    Unfortunately, islamo-facists wannabes do not subscribe to logic and tolerance – in short, it is THEIR WAY or the HIGHWAY!

  107. Subsidiary legislation, for example, requiring that business premises (at least where the public has right of access as visitors) respect the dignity of Islam as the ‘religion of the federation’…is that an infringement on the rights of non-Muslims to practice their religion?

    Your thoughts.

  108. Jeffrey wrote:

    “but certainly not JAWI officers who can only prosecute and charge a Muslim in a Syariah Court, which has no jurisdiction over Non Muslims.

    Let us not use the authority of Article 3 to make an apologetic defense for the misguided acts of petty bureaucratic officials who deem fit to out their duties in an overzealous manner in excess of their powers and contrary to the very ethos upon which the fabric of multi-racial and inter-religious harmony is forged so far in the country.”

    I doubt these facts would make any impression on islamo-facists.

  110. Diaperhead wrote:

    “Subsidiary legislation, for example, requiring that business premises (at least where the public has right of access as visitors) respect the dignity of Islam as the ‘religion of the federation’…is that an infringement on the rights of non-Muslims to practice their religion?”

    Judging from your train of thoughts, all non-Muslim religious emblems, words and paraphernalia would have to be removed from business premises.

    That is your subscription to the dignity of Islam.

  111. Jeffrey QC’

    We are waiting with bated breath for your opinion on the “The Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act 1993 (“Islamic Act”) i.e. whether there is anything in the Act that legitimizes such actions by these JAWI enforcement officers.

  112. RealWorld:

    Typical UMNO response – no perfect country with a perfect system. However, UMNO seems to have perfected a system for stealing in broad daylight from the rakyat. This seems to be acceptable.

  113. “…all non-Muslim religious emblems, words and paraphernalia would have to be removed from business premises.” lchk

    I am not advocating that religious symbols offensive to the ‘religion of the federation’ referred to under Art. 3 of the Federal Constitution, be removed.

    I am, however, asking if such a view is not contrary to the said constitutional provision.

  114. Diaperhead wrote:

    “I am not advocating that religious symbols offensive to the ‘religion of the federation’ referred to under Art. 3 of the Federal Constitution, be removed.

    I am, however, asking if such a view is not contrary to the said constitutional provision.”

    But you are giving tacit approval to what the Jawi officers did, as per your written statements in this blog thread.

    The founding fathers were wise enough to also have Article 8 drafted into the Consitution to rebutt islamo-facists from taking action to oppress those of a different faith.

    Moreover, in this case, Jawi had NO legal rights to play games with non-Muslims.

  115. “Moreover, in this case, Jawi had NO legal rights to play games with non-Muslims.”

    Please don’t jump the gun! I thought reader Jeffrey is supposed to give us the benefit of his expert opinion.

  117. 2 months ago one of our key Japnese clients came to our plant to audit us on our quality system. The auditing team consists of a Japanese, a Malay lady and a Malay man.

    When my Japanese advisor tried to greet them and shake hands with them, guess what, the Malay lady refused to shake his hand!

    The Malay lady is quite a senior staff and I am sure she is well educated too. Till now I still cannot forget that arkward instance!

    A simple clean andshake is non-halal?

  119. Diaperhead wrote:

    “Please don’t jump the gun! I thought reader Jeffrey is supposed to give us the benefit of his expert opinion.”

    There is no expert opinion needed.

    Jawi is NOT authorised to interfere in non-Muslims’ affairs.

  122. Godfather:

    “Steal as much as you want..”? Lets talk facts here , not wild accusations. If what you claimed is true, then why the rakyat still vote BN in overwhelmingly?? Are you now saying the rakyat is dumb?

  123. Ichk,

    “Typical UMNO response – no perfect country with a perfect system. However, UMNO seems to have perfected a system for stealing in broad daylight from the rakyat. This seems to be acceptable.” – Godfather

    What has UMNO got to do with this discussion topic as well then???

    Can you now see your own double standards???

  127. Last Sunday morning I was having breakfast in a small mamak stall in Kundang near Rawang. While getting out of the stall I was caught by surprise. A 70+ year old Pakcik waiving to me. I was thinking must be blocking the tv. Others in the shop mainly Malays all looked up. Saying to myself I shouldnt have come here, in a mamak shop in a Malay kampung. But tell you the truth, I was totally wrong. Thing turned the other way round. The Pakcik actually telling me a Big Thank You for coming to the shop. Seems that there are not many Chineses or Indians visiting the place these days. I was equally thankful for the good roti canai and coffee served.

    Few weeks ago, I was back to my hometown in Taiping. Visited this famous halal cha kuey teow shop opened by a Malay by the name of Doli. It was quite pack in the evening. Food was great, waiters were friendly and motivated and place was clean. Based on these few indicators one can derived these were the good work of an efficient boss or management. Understand from a Malay friend that boss started his business from a humble beginning by the road side. Another thing that I noticed was all the customers were Malays. I was asking to myself where were the Chineses and Indians?

    Remember in the 70′ and 80′, relationship between the races were still very close. Most of the time particularly during the National Day you still have that kind of patriotic feeling and appreciation of one another. Everyone were opened, you can crack any jokes and nonsense without getting sensitive. Things have really change after 50 yrs into independence. Races are segregated by the system and religion. We have lost the intimacy that we have before. The government is trying hard trying to close the gap by playing national anthem and putting up advertisements on tv, national schools, national services … but all are meaningless and worthless. With all kind of religious rules and system (NEP) exploited by the political group for own selfish gains, relationship among races has been broken and deteriorating everyday. Kampung folks and orang asli are nice people, I still enjoyed their company every time I go to the country side. But things change when political and religious leaders come along stirring up emotions and manipulate the people.

    I for one as the citizen of this country have NO MOOD and NOT PROUD for celebrating 50 YEARS INTO INDEPENDENCE! Meaningless is the word described!

  128. Ichk,

    Get down from that high horse of yours.

    Then what has UMNO got to do with this discussion? You may want to ask Godfather that. But seeing that you two come with the same narrow vision, I am going to discount that.

  130. Realworld wrote:

    “Get down from that high horse of yours.

    Then what has UMNO got to do with this discussion? You may want to ask Godfather that. But seeing that you two come with the same narrow vision, I am going to discount that.”

    I will respond as I wish to.

    If you don’t like it, it’s just too bad.

  131. RealWorld:

    Most people on this blog are blaming the government of the day for allowing the sort of abuse of power by JAWI to occur as described in the story above. As an UMNO apologist, you have to write to say that there is no perfect world, no perfect system, and you provided a link to show that China also had its problems with Muslim minorities.

    This is like comparing apples with oranges. The Chinese leadership don’t steal like the way the UMNO leadership does. Of course this blog has asked plenty of questions on the way that project costs have been inflated unreasonably, but there have been no replies. This is a deviation from the thread, and I agree with Ichk. Let’s just stick to the thread, and not deviate into the stealing of rakyat money.

    Back to this thread – are you suggesting that we have to live with the abuse of power as decribed in the story above ? Are you suggesting that the government of the day has every right not to bother with it ?

  132. Undergrad2,

    The Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act 1993 (“the Act”) covers the establishment of the Majlis Agama Islam Wilayah Persekutuan (“Majlis”), appointment of Mufti and establishment of Syariah Courts and their respective powers, maters of conversion and religious education.

    The statutory duties of the Majlis are to “promote, stimulate, facilitate the economic and social well being of the Muslim community in the Federal Territories consistent with Islamic law” and for that purpose to promote the carrying on of such activities by such bodies or persons whether under the control or partial control of the Majlis or independently, and whether in association with other bodies or persons, including the departments or authorities of the Federal Government…and the Majlis has powers to appoint committees to assist his performance of duties and exercise of powers.

    As far as I am concerned, I don’t see anything.

  134. Just wait….and see.
    In matter of months (god knows, may be days) they WILL announce that each non-muslim family must have at least one muslim convert so that the family can enjoy the “benefits” of being Malaysian!

    I really don’t understand! Is Malaysia becoming Malaysial!!!

  136. Mr Lim,

    After reading this mail, I wasn’t surprised with the emotional outbursts. However, I’m of a different opinion.

    This is, in fact, the best thing to happen, and, I do hope there’re more incidents like this. This incident will serve to highlight the malay & muslim chauvinism against the non-muslims. More incidents like this, will show the minorities that M’sia is no longer worth it.

    One of your commentators had written reminding about the racial closeness in the 70’s & 80’s. I would like to say that the reverse is true. There was never any racial harmony, especially on the heels of May 13, 1969. If anything, racial divide worsened. I would like to bring to attention the Kerling incident, and, Bukit Cina incident. Please, lets dispense with the naivette, shall we?

    Here is my proposal, Mr Lim. Please organize the minorities en masse, put us on boats, and, let us leave M’sia. The Vietnamese did it, with great sucess albeit with great hardship too. Let us also emulate their struggle and success.

  137. Truly, Malaysia is going backwards. The country is run by a bunch of idiotic politicians who’s only reason to enter politics is to become billionaires, not to run the country. They lack the basic knowledge on politics, about human relationships, and frankly, just about anything except how to “steal” money from everybody else.

    United07 your “hypothesis” means sharing the cake with more people; certainly not what they want.

    Taikotai is right to some extent. The future of non-Bumi generations lie not in this country. Everyday, things are happening to non-Bumis to aggravat them further. The Govt. is closing both eyes in the hope of what? To chase non-Bumis out, to persecute them because they cannot bully their own kind for fear of losing political leadership? Why are they doing this? Are we not paying taxes to pay for the privileges of the Malays?

    Don’t “kill the goose that lays the golden egg” or you kill youself in the end.

  138. On the other hand all readers should take note that JAWI would be acting WITHIN ITS POWERS AND JURISDICTION if the Banana Leaf shop has, in the interest of commercial considerations, earlier applied for a “Halal” certification from JAWI for the shop and it is one of the conditions of such Halal certification (that the shop owner had prior accepted for benefits of this form of certification) that the decor and set up of the establishment should not be “un-islamic” including having deities and altars in it……

  139. Godfather:

    Again, I would like to urge you to bring facts and concrete evidence to the table. Your claims about the BN government ‘stealing’ from the people are baseless unless you can produce the facts or evidence.

    And you have not answered my question. If the BN government is ‘stealing’ from the rakyat as what you claimed, then how come BN is the rakyat’s choice in every GE???

    On your “The Chinese leadership don’t steal like the way the UMNO leadership does” , I find it real mature of you to come up with such a statement. Care to elaborate how the Chinese leadership ‘steal’ from the chinese people in China a little??? Comparing apples with oranges?? Give me a break here, I doubt you cant even tell the difference!

    If you agree with Ichk to not deviate, then in the first place leave UMNO and your wild claims of ‘stealing’ rakyat’s money out of it then. Dont say one thing but do another. I find it amusing to see you back tracking all over the place. :)

    If you would have cared to read my first posting carefully in this thread, I said lets not get too carried away. By that I meant, dont use the same one brush and paint the entire picture. I am sure what happened then was an isolated incident. I highligted then the world which we live in today is not perfect and used an example in China. You then in response went ballistic and went on a rant about UMNO and ‘stealing’ the rakyat’s money etc etc.

  140. “YB Lim,Do we need a civil war,to show them of our displeasure?” – aawilliam

    Oh deary me! Resorting to arms now is it??
    I wonder if Ichk will ride over in his “white horse” and give this guy an earful?

    Civil war????!! My goodness. Ini ka tindakan penyokong parti DAP???

  141. Hmmm, many Chinese shops have the laughing Buddha statue in it. Or Buddha or even Kwan Yin. I guess all of these shops will be on JAWI’s list next.

    May indian saree shops also have altars to various deities. These presumably have to come down too!

    Many factories have an altar in their premises? Should the altar come down, or should the factory close next?

    Investor friendly konon. And no flip flops.

    I think Taikothat has given good advice. just leave this country.

    many countries such as US/UK/Australia are calling for skilled immigrants. Wjile malaysia wants to encourage its skilled people to leave. Who knows that could end up being malaysia’s next major export!

  142. Aiyo, there’s enough that’s happened to tell us that we must all collectively vote for the opposition.

    If voicing out does not work, then voting maybe or IS the only way to show we do not & will not tolerate incompetent leadership anymore.

  143. One of Islam Hadhari’s principles as listed out in prime ministers office website:-

    PROTECTION OF THE RIGHTS OF MINORITY GROUPS AND WOMEN

    The educational approach of Islam Hadhari preserves the dignity of human beings without any discrimination and without differentiating between majority and minority groups. The rights of these are protected by the country’s law. This protection encompasses the protection of life, religion, property, dignity and intellect. These aspects exist in the objective of Islamic law (maqasid ash-shariah). Therefore, these rights cannot be denied with the excuse that it is a minority group or a different gender. Denying them their rights is wrong in the eyes of the law. This is consistent with what Allah, the Almighty, has said in the Quran in Surah al-Hujurat, verse 13:

    “O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that who has more piety. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware (of your condition and deeds).”

    These rights are protected by the Federal Constitution under Section II, which provides for Fundamental Liberties.

    As a result, minority groups and women are able to enjoy whatever is enjoyed by majority groups and men. They have the right to participate in the development of the country and enjoy everything that is enjoyed by other races. They can participate in administering the country, and in economic, social, educational, religious and political activities.

    Well we know whose eyes someone has been trying to blind with all the talk about hadhari.

    Didnt anyone ever teach him that actions speak louder than words? And all this leadership by example ….konon

  144. lakshy:

    Hold on to your horses a little. I think you are jumping the gun way ahead. And I truly believe that it was an isolated incident by some maybe untrained or over zealous officers.

    If you think leaving the country is the solution then it is your right to do so. By the way, I am curious, have you migrated? If yes, then why did bother about Malaysia??

    Malaysia is a country for all Malaysians regardless of race or religion. Sure we have our imperfections and problems but there is indeed tolerance.

    US/UK/Aust , yes they are looking for skilled workers but you forget about the rest. What about those who are say waiters, cashiers, clerks, typists, teachers, salespersons etc etc??? Save the ‘elite’ group and sacrifice the rest??

  145. So much has been written by some many commentors.

    If MS is reading this. it’d be good if he can just write a line here, to confirm he’d be ready and willing to name the banana leaf restaurant concerned, its location and the date of the incident, and he will provide it to YB LKS by private email direct to YB Kit.

    This way, it will answer some of those posters who questioned whether the incident did in fact happen. Or not.

    This will also avoid accusations of YB Kit acting on “internet rumour”, as someone above wrote. If named and some real active follow-up can be initiated, then we all can at least be satisfied the incicent is not a fabrication.

    All agree, fair?

  146. To validate the above, those of you staying nearby just take an evening stroll along that row of old shops off Jalan Maarof (near the vets office) and poke your heads and noses into the 3 or 4 little banana-leaf shops. I believe that the email is true because no one can concort up such an amazing tale

  147. We will no longer be living in a civilised, Muslim, secular or what-have-you state. We will be living in the Dark Ages where anarchy rules.

    These JAWI officers and so called enforcers of Islamist propaganda are no more islamist than you or I. They are the real terrorists much in the vein of all those terrorists who use Jihad and misquoted and/or distorted Islamist teacings as an excuse – yes, definitely an excuse with no clear cause except part gangsterism and part outlaw – to randomly and wantonly wield their self-assumed righteousness on the ordinary citizens. The main goal is to assuage their sense of uselessness and deficiencies caused by their inability to compete on level grounds to attain a meaningful life – in the eyes of man and God.

    The bully is always a coward in thoughts and actions. Lawful inaction only encourages him further. His understanding is simplistic and equates to strong-armed tactics as effectiveness or efficient application to get results. It’s the MEANS JUSTIFYING THE ENDS for him. Hence, the gangster tactics.

    HOWEVER, THIS IS TO BE EXPECTED WHEN A COUNTRY PRACTISES TWO JUDICIAL SYSTEMS IN WHICH THE RULE OF CIVIL LAW IS SUPERCEDED BY THE RULE OF THE SYARIAH SYSTEM. WHEN THE GOVERNMENT CHOOSES TO ALLOW SYARIAH RULE TO GO BEYOND ITS PRACTICE (despite the Constitution) ON THE MUSLIMS TO HAVE IT IMPOSED ON NON-MUSLIMS, ANARCHY IS CREATED. AND IT WILL GROW BIGGER AND MORE UNRESTRAINED IF IMMEDIATE SANCTION BY THE GOVERNMENT AND ITS RULE OF CIVIL LAW ARE NOT PUT IN PLACE. GOD HELP MALAYSIA AND ITS PEOPLE THEN.

    [deleted]

  148. The country is now ruled by Mullahs and Ayotollahs, what religious tolerance, religious freedom? Only protection of the special species as Mr. Thierry Rommel said it most aptly.

    Who would dare to to come to put their good money here? Your guess is as good as if not better than any one’s guess.

  149. ///If the BN government is ’stealing’ from the rakyat as what you claimed, then how come BN is the rakyat’s choice in every GE???///

    That is the “success story” of divide and rule. The BN’s ring leader is UMNO which is a gang. The gang members get the benefit, crumbs perhaps, and they vote for the gang leaders and the gang’s agents in every GE.

  150. YB Lim, it is time to setup a malay blog for the majority of the nation to know what is going on in Malaysia!! we cant wait for them to learn English before they start to blog!!

  151. i guess 80 % of malays are not living in Real World, they are advocating something the arabs themselves are trying hard to get rid of.

    those no-brainer religious officers, while doing they holy duties, forgotten they have entered the premises they advised other muslims not to enter…hantu!!!! brother.

    i don’t know if they are ignorant or down-right idiots; just like some who pray 5 times a day but going round making love with all kinds of women they can get their hands on…

    let me remind them, most non-muslim girls are full of pork oil inside their bodies….

    in case they get ichi next time, remember what i said….PORK oil, don’t even think of touching them! MUNAFIQ!!!!!!!

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  153. “On the other hand all readers should take note that JAWI would be acting WITHIN ITS POWERS AND JURISDICTION if the Banana Leaf shop has, in the interest of commercial considerations, earlier applied for a “Halal” certification from JAWI for the shop and it is one of the conditions of such Halal certification (that the shop owner had prior accepted for benefits of this form of certification) that the decor and set up of the establishment should not be “un-islamic” including having deities and altars in it……” Jeffery QC

    There you go!! Very perceptive. One does not have to understand syariah lawyer to know that!

  154. “Here is my proposal, Mr Lim. Please organize the minorities en masse, put us on boats, and, let us leave M’sia. The Vietnamese did it, with great sucess albeit with great hardship too. Let us also emulate their struggle and success.” buvan.govindasamy

    Enough of the cynicism. Why do you keep visiting a blog which you feel should be closed down?

  155. Realworld wrote:

    “Oh deary me! Resorting to arms now is it??
    I wonder if Ichk will ride over in his “white horse” and give this guy an earful?”

    As stated previously, I will only write what and when I please.

    You must have a fragile ego to assume that people are picking on you.

  157. To: Endangered Hornbill

    Food for thought:

    I am not a Jew. Hath not a non-Jew has eyes? Hath not a non-Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food though non-kosher food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winters and summer, as a non-Jew is? If you prick us, do we not bleed, if you tickle us, do we not laugh? [deleted] If we pass by a Jew, as a non-Jew are we to feel that we do not deserve to be passing you by, that we have polluted the air that you breathe? If a non-Jew offers his seat while in a bus to a Jew, is a non-Jew to understand that a Jew would never sit where minutes earlier a non-Jew has been sitting? If you poison us, do we not die? If you take our money do we not have less of it to support our families and provide for our sustenance? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest. We will resemble you in that. If a Jew wrong a non- Jew, what is his humility? Revenge: if a Jew wrong a non-Jew, what should his sufferance be by Jewish example? Why, revenge. The villainy you teach me, I will execute; and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction.

  159. Is this news going to be limited to this blog ….. withness and victims please stand up and those in overseas stop calling yourself Malaysian if you refuse to speak up and come back, dont hide yourself and just read this for fun. Show the government the power of its citizen. WHERE IS MIC AND SAMY VALLU… checking building hah?

  160. Face-value: “I have to agree with few comments in here. If they found the idols of other religion is offensive, then leave the place. No one is putting a gun to their head to eat there. What has become to this country?”

    “The Government are really playing with fire here.”

    Welcome to the kitchen. Where have you been the last 49 years!!!

    Are you that blind and ignorant?? Do you understand the meaning of “politicization of religion” in Malaysia. They don’t teach this in school.

  161. this is totally intolerance!

    If JAWI has the right to do this, they might as well close all Bak Kut Teh shops in Klang. They might as well close all pubs that serve alcohol in KL.

    Of course if the Indian shop has a sign saying Halal and the altar is there, it’s a bit grey.

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  163. “You must have a fragile ego to assume that people are picking on you.” – Ichk

    What has my ego gotta do with this thread?? Talk about digressing from the subject!

    Walk the talk dude.

  164. Hi,

    “Of course if the Indian shop has a sign saying Halal and the altar is there, it’s a bit grey.”

    maybe non malays should wear a sign to say we are kafir so the muslim won’t touch us…?

    my advise to these so holy idiots is, don’t shake hand with people until you ask whether they eat pork or not…by the way, a lot of muslims go around do unholy things, they should not be touched too.

    best is for all holy super-holy muslims to leave malaysia and go to afghanistan or somewhere, where the swords rule…and stop giving everyone a hard time here, we have better things to do.

    let’s move forward, cheers!

  165. RealWorld asks for evidence to my assertion that his party UMNO is nothing more than a bunch of thieves. Now this is a deviation from the topic at hand, but I cannot allow the issue to be unanswered.

    In every country, taxation is used to benefit the rakyat. You impose taxes – direct and indirect – and these go into the nation’s Treasury. In Bodohland, various forms of taxation are imposed on the rakyat but some go into the pockets of UMNOputras as though they have the right to the country’s treasury. The AP issue is one. Why does 70 pct of APs go to one person ? Why does the person who dishes out the APs give hundreds a year to her niece ? We suffer from high car prices year in year out – and this system still continues (although it will be discontinued in 2010, not due to pressure from the rakyat but through AFTA rules).

    Take liquor and medicine labelling. UMNO allows several cronies to have the right to stick labels on products and imposes a charge to those who buy them. One beneficiary is even the brother of a minister. Is this not daylight robbery ? Can I have a licence to certify bottled water as halal ?

    Another way of stealing from the rakyat is the wanton inflation of contract prices for public facilities. If a road can be built for RM 100 million and is “awarded” without tender for RM 200 million, that is theft. If a palace can be built for RM 300 million and the contract is awarded without tender for RM 1 billion, that is clearly theft and is criminal. How many such cases are there ? Isn’t this the reason why there are no open tenders for government contracts ?

    Some time ago, a bunch of UMNOputras “forced” the sale of a coal mine to TNB. TNB paid hundreds of millions for the coal mine and recently sold it back to the Indonesians for (I think) 15 million ringgit. Do you want the list of UMNO people involved ? Is this not theft ?

    RealWorld goes on to ask why if UMNO are thieves the rakyat continues to vote them into power. It’s precisely because with the money that they steal they can buy votes and control the media. We don’t have a free mainstream press. Cases of theft are not reported or pursued. We will get there, slowly but surely. Then we will expose these UMNOputras for what they are – just common criminals stealing from the country.

  166. Some very good posts, some over the top (understandably so given the emotional content of the whole issue). But reading RealWorld and Diaperhead’s comments illustrates very clearly how the Malay/Muslim perceives these incidents :

    1. Linking these actions to the fact that ‘protection of the dignity of Islam’ and the position of Islam as the official religion of this country as the Constitution is under threat. And usually it goes like this – action by religious authorities impinge on rights of the non Muslims, the non Muslims object, the Muslims view these objections as a ‘threat to the position of Islam’ and hence the need to protect and justify such actions. However irrational and twisted this ‘logic’ is, this unfortunately is how these Muslims view it. It again is the siege mentality, the propagation of fear that Islam is under attack everywhere around the world (hence link to Chinese oppression of minority Muslims), as well as in M’sia. And it is something that Umno excels in – whipping up fear, demonising the minorities, divide and rule (not unlike the fascists and to some extent the colonial Brits).

    2. Which brings me nicely to the second point – why is the rakyat continually voting for a govt that is supposedly so bad, in every elections since independence. This is because Umno has succeeded very very well in instilling fear and ignorance through decades of propaganda in the state controlled vernacular media. Read the letter by Eddie Wong in Malaysiakini which articulates this point very well . Another point which should not be overlooked is this, our country and the economy has come this far is in spite of, rather than because of Umno. Our country has been blessed with bountiful resources and pure luck (with rising oil prices) that has allowed us to survive and thrive this far despite of the destructive policies, rampant corruption, greed and hypocrisy.

    And the cheek to ask where is the evidence that Umno is stealing from the country! Heavens above…

  167. RealWorld:

    Look at the little red dot down south. They had nothing when they left the federation in 1965. We had everything – oil, tin, rubber, pepper, tea, timber. 40 years on, they have reserves in excess of US$200 billion, and we have reserves of US$72 billion. Their per capita income is 3 times that of Bodohland. And you know why ? BECAUSE THEY DON’T STEAL.

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  169. I think realworld is a misnomer. Someone is in denial, probably like most of the malays!

    Malaysia is on a planned route to further arabicization. Probably even talibanization. So I strongly suggest that we get out while we can.

    When I said skilled persons, I meant cooks, masons, carpenters, teachers, fitters, welders etc too!. To the clerks and waiters etc, I suggest you get a skill that they want or need. Check the Immigration Australia website to see the preferred skills.

    Malaysia is no longer a country for all malaysians. It would be for the good of the country if the majority race does wake up and realize that they need the minorities help to do well. But until they wake up from their deep coma, its best for the other races to leave with their MONEY and let this country go the same way like most other muslim nations in the world.

    Sell all shares held in companies and let the malays buy them up so they can have control of 70% of the equity and let them still claim they have less than 30%. At that point in time, nobody will really bother what they have to say. Then lets see where this beloved country of ours heads to.

  170. Isolated incident my a**! First you have the body snatchers. Then you have the breaking up of families, all in the name of one particular religion.

    Then you have subversion of the const*tut*on which is the supreme law of the nation to make it subservient to syariah law.

    My god all of this is isolated?

    And at the same time that we declare construction of hundreds of malay schools, how many chinese and indian schools are being built?

    and we have an absent pm going on a roadshow harping about hadhari!

  171. In some muslim countries polygamy is forbidden as they interpret the point about treating all the women equally as not possible to achieve for mortal man.

    Of course lah, if you are 55 with a 50 year old wife and you marry a 30 yeor old woman, can you honestly say that you will treat them equally? heyyyyy! Looks like Malaysia Boleh!

  172. Quotes in response to the raid on the Indian Muslim restaurant in Bangsar and on the Indian restaurant “at the corner”.

    “It has nothing to do with the legitimate rights of non-Muslims and non-Malays to practice their religion!”

    “You can always place altars and other religious symbols away
    from public view. Nothing to do with religious tolerance or intolerance.”

    “It would be different if it involves religious symbols in your house.”

    “What if I tell you that Moses a prophet to all three great religions Christianity, Judaism and Islam was so angry with the use of idols when he came down from Mt. Sanai that he broke the stone tablet containing the 10 commandments!?

    Stone idols (not American Idol) is a no-no to Jews and Muslims – both strong believers of the Old Testament. Even a photograph according to some is a no-no but this is controversial.”

    “I am not advocating that religious symbols offensive to the ‘religion of the federation’ referred to under Art. 3 of the Federal Constitution, be removed.

    I am, however, asking if such a view is not contrary to the said constitutional provision.”

    I don’t see how ‘ethnicmalaysian’ could come to the following conclusion:

    “Some very good posts, some over the top (understandably so given the emotional content of the whole issue). But reading RealWorld and Diaperhead’s comments illustrates very clearly how the Malay/Muslim perceives these incidents …”

  173. Sorry I missed this one from DiaperHead:

    “True. It is not a question of taking offense from the presence of religious symbols placed in private property like your house. An eatery or restaurant or whatever has an standing invitation to all as visitors. Some of these visitors (and I am using the word ‘visitor’ in a legal sense as opposed to ‘trespassers’) may order their food and then notice the presence of for example Chinese altars used for praying or Vishnu or the Goddess of Money or Jesus staring at them. What then?? Of course it is their fault.

    But what of Article 3 of the Federal Constitution which states that Islam is the ‘religion of the federation’? Are these empty words??”

  174. I think it’s time for ALL premises to put up ‘Non -Halal’ signs like ‘Tak Halal’ or ‘Bukan Islam’ to inform those of the Muslim faith to KEEP OUT – and be done with it. period. Just like the Magnum or 4-D or TOTO outlets.

  175. Real world, trust me on this one,when it comes to over zealous religious implementation when sometimes crosses boundaries to non- muslims, it is not an isolated one anymore. This is what worries the rest of us, the minorities.

  176. RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE? Why I guess it means that all non muslims must be tolerant of the cacophony that crackles out of mosques 5 times a day, some at ungodly hours!

    And to have tv programmes interrupted to hear quranic verses read out!

    Well I guess the non-malays who cant be tolernt to all this “noise” better just leave. Who is holding you back? This is not your nation. This is the Malay-nation!

  177. “This is not your nation. This is the Malay-nation!” – lakshy

    You have lost the battle even before it begins when you have such mindset that this is the Malay-nation and not yours!!

  178. malaysia is for all of us ,Indian Chinese n malay.when the merdeka time,the 3 nation leader not co-operated,until now we wont achive merdeka,,,,,if the malay peole know the merdeka mean they wont do like this,,very sad,,in malaysia everybody got right until they not over the right….our pm also said….why they do like tht….pls datuk lim kit siang do something ,,if not dunno want hapen ,,,,

  179. Dear Bro/Sis,

    This issue is not just an issue for LKS to voice it Parlimen. Did any of you voice this to the PARTIES that you voted the last time around. You probably know that this problem has exsisted for a long time.We all chose to ignor it , for convenience, hoping it will go away .Unfortunately the ‘authorities’ did not face any resistant, so they continued to extend their dominance. You want to make changes….make that VOTE of yours count. Spread the word amongst your immediate family members and friends. We can all over come a lot of other issues if the ‘OPPOSITION’ can be given a much stronger mandate to oppose those whom are in rule.

  181. My Fellow Malaysians,

    Appaling isnt it….
    For example in a flight, to watch muslims Drink alcohol to glory and then ask the flight attendent whether the food is “Halal” etc etc..

    Why cant they ask for their passport and refuse to give them alcohol? On the grounds that it is Haram?
    On a MAS flight…..scared they will lose the arab customers? No free alcohol! This particular group were arabs

    Hypocrisy from the word go!!!

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