Hearing for the habeas corpus application of rubber tapper Marimuthu Periasamy, 43, for the release of his wife Raimah Bibi a/p Noordin and six children, Yoogneswary 12, Paramila 11, Hariharan 8, Ravindran 5, Shamala 5 and Keberan 4 from detention by the Selangor Islamic Religious Department (JAIS) for the past 22 days has been set by the Shah Alam High Court for May 3, 2007 at 9 am.
DAP National Chairman and counsel for Marimuthu appeared before the Shah Alam High Court Judge, Justice Su Geok Yian at 2.30 pm after filing a certificate of urgency for the hearing of the application.
DPP Shoba Vengopal, who appeared for the Selangor Islamic Religious Department, asked for a month for JAIS to file affidavit but Karpal argued for earliest hearing as family unity and human rights are at stake, with Marimuthu seeking to be reunited with his wife and six children who were forcibly separated from him on 2nd April 2007 on the ground that they were Muslims.
I watched the AlJareeza documentary on apostacy and wonder what SUHAKOM is doing about the human rights issues.
http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/04/apostacy-and-human-rights.html
ask e JAIS [deleted] to be forcefully seperated from their families n c wat they hav to say… or maybe they will b much happier cuz then they will hav e freedom to go foya-foya.
1 month to file affidavit…. if only they were as incompetent in seperating families, Bodoh Land wont b as bodoh as it is right now.
Even animals have better sense when it comes to taking care of their young.
When Man becomes an animal through the wrongful practice of religion and this is condoned by the State, welll…..finito!
I think this is the only country in the world that a father has no right to their children or wife just because one is a Muslim.
Here in this case it is even more stupid. The wife is a self confessed Hindu and thereby no longer a Muslim in the eye of God.
And those bearded-turbaned ulamas are playing God.
I pray that Marimuthu will be united with his wife and children real soon. God(my God is always fair and merciful) will definitely be with you all the way! Take courage from those good people like Lim Kit Siang and Karpal!
If
JAIS = NAZI
Oh Yes, where are you Samy Vellu???? Shame on you !
Why doesn’t Parliament table new legislation on the matter making it clear to non-Muslims that once converted to Muslims, they can only do a reverse conversion only by meeting the statutory requirements of this new statute?
Of course this path towards Islamization (or call it what you may) is not accessible without first resolving what seems to be a ‘conflict’ between syariah and civil law and the Constitution on the issue of ‘religious freedom’.
Habeas corpus can then be suspended if one puts oneself or comes within the scope of the Act.
After all that is the role of statutes – to rid any inherent ambiguities in the law.
“Why doesn’t Parliament table new legislation on the matter making it clear to non-Muslims that once converted to Muslims, they can only do a reverse conversion only by meeting the statutory requirements of this new statute?” undergrad2
Why make another bad law?
The root of the problems is the article in the Constitution that says
Malays=Muslim
If the Malays in Malaysia had a referendum on this matter I wonder how many percent will decide that this rule should be amended and give Malays the freedom to chose their religion.
Amending the constitution is nothing new; it has already been amended many times and each time becoming more draconian.
It is time to give freedom back.
At present Malaysia is the only country to define a race based on adherence to a religion.
For example China has the world’s largest or second largest Muslim population in the world but they have not lost their racial identity.
It was mentioned in the alJareeza documentary that if religious freedom was allowed for the Malays, they would be finished as a race.
There is a fear that the Malay rulers will lose their influence but I think the last PM did that during his term.
Also Malaysians of all races respect and honour the rulers that have provided good leadership and moral courage.
If religion is a personal matter which concerns only his belief about his purpose of life on earth, and where he goes after death, then what others believe should not concern him. Then what make an increase or decrease in the number of persons prefessing a specfic religion sensitive? Even when one believes that one gains merit by for gaining a convert(?), this is no difference from making profit from a sale, and that should not be a sensitive matter.
When Anwar was charged for sodomy, he should have been tried under Syariah court, but the AG decided otherwise. So, the AG has the authority to decide on where any particular case should be placed, and it is up to the judges to decide whether to hear it or not.
“…it is up to the judges to decide whether to hear it or not.” Loh
Precisely my point. For once Loh and I can agree! I’ll drink to that!
We have civil court judges afraid to exercise their discretion and claim jurisdiction over the matter, and we have the syariah court judges refusing to hear applications. As a result those poor bastards find themselves in legal limbo.
“Why make another bad law?
The root of the problems is the article in the Constitution that says Malays=Muslim” HJ Angus
Why make another ‘bad’ law? A law is bad when there are inherent ambiguities which lend themselves to conflicting interpretations by our courts. These ambiguities are cleared by way of amendments to the law earlier passed by the country’s highest legislature i.e. Parliament.
If the law makers are reluctant to amend that law, maintaining their original view that there is nothing inherently wrong with the law, that the problem is with the civil courts which choose not to take over jurisdiction of the matter and the syariah courts which refuse to exercise their discretion in the matter, then the only other way would be to introduce a new statue which specifically deals with the issues – and the issue of habeas corpus.
The problem is with the politicians – not the law makers, not even with our judges both civil and syariah. Religion in Malaysia has been so politicized that judges are reluctant, almost afraid to be liberal in their interpretation of the law for fear that they will be seen as working against their political masters. There is no real separation of powers and the country is under the grip of executive tyranny.
As for the issue of Malays=Muslims, Article 160(2) of the Federal Constitution 1957 deals with definitions and, I respectfully submit, is not meant in the form it appears to restrict the religious freedom of any one race. If at all, it works the same way as a legal presumption that all Malays are Muslims until proven otherwise.
Years later, someone came along and chose to show his ingenuity in using the language of Article 160(2), unfortunate as it is, to prevent the spread of religious dogma among the Malays that is not Islamic – and for political reasons one might add.
“There is a fear that the Malay rulers will lose their influence but I think the last PM did that during his term.”
The Malay Rulers are symbols and even as constitutional symbols they are doing badly. They cannot lose what they do not have.
Limbo has now been declared a non-doctrine by the Pope.
I wonder if there will be a replacement for it as for legal matters.
How about judges reclusing themselves if they feel not comfortable about deciding on religious matters?
I think sodomy is also a crime under civil laws and maybe at the time the judge and justice department was more inclined towards the Executive.
The poll on my site lays the problem mainly on the conduct of the judges.
BN’s inaction and tolerance of racist and gangster behaviour has spawned a new generation of thugs…
…just take a look at the RELA goons, the Puchong UMNO thugs, the MIC & UMNO gangsters in the recent Machap & Ijok by-elections, and the JAIS j who raid foreigner’s holiday to peek at their wife and break-up people’s family
this is the ugliest brand of Islam i’ve ever seen, and the most disgusting bunch of racist UMNO and crony MCA/MIC to ever come out of Merdeka!
I thank GOD that firstly I am not a Malay and secondly not a Muslim. I can choose my religion freely and I can have my own opinions without fearing what others would think about me. Cos the Malays are not allowed to choose their religion freely, dare not condemned, right the wrongs etc etc. I noticed that this “special people ” are confined to their own way and dare not to be different and being tied down by the conservative Islam teachings. Politicians are so smart to use this weaknesses for their own gain and proposing whatever nonsense that now the whole country are being dragged backwarddd….
May I wish alhamdulila to them…But then don you guys realise that if the bumis would rather die than giving up their benefits?!?!
Wa happened to my reply to your post earlier??
“How about judges reclusing themselves if they feel not comfortable about deciding on religious matters?”
No. Judges cannot recuse from hearing cases whenever they feel ‘uncomfortable’ about the issues. They can only legally recuse if a party to the litigation is related to them in some way.
“The root of the problems is the article in the Constitution that says
Malays=Muslim”
Article 160(2) of the Federal Constitution is on ‘definitions’ and, I respectfully submit, that its exclusive nature has been used by politicians to prevent Muslims from converting.
This is a good example of vested interests working to protect themselves.
“There is a fear that the Malay rulers will lose their influence but I think the last PM did that during his term.
Also Malaysians of all races respect and honour the rulers that have provided good leadership and moral courage.” HJ Angus
You cannot be serious!
The Malay Rulers are mere symbols under our Constitution. If they now regret having signed the Federation of Malaya Agreement of 1948 then it is their problem.
Even as constitutional symbols they are doing badly – taking the law into their own hands, seeking immunity from both civil and criminal, giving away timber concessions for money etc including a lavish private lifestyle and all at the expense of the taxpayers!
There is no country like Malaysia where Rulers rotate to take over the throne of King, and where Rulers have no income of their own and depend wholly on the government to support their lifestyle – not just in the discharge of their official duties as Rulers.
“It was mentioned in the alJareeza documentary that if religious freedom was allowed for the Malays, they would be finished as a race.” HJ Angus
This is a logical extension of Article 160(2). Who can disagree?
Blame MCA, MIC and Gerakan for the mess we are in. They allowed all these to happen. They will even sell their daughters in exchange for perks of office.
They are selling their people.
Those who support these parties, shame on you. You have no right to complain here. Go seek help from your respective parties.
“Limbo has now been declared a non-doctrine by the Pope.”
Yeah. “Let’s limbo some more” goes the song by Chubby Checker. As for the Pope I am not a Catholic and he can limbo or not limbo as much as he wants. I got no problem with that. My problem is when somebody wants to limbo with me, and somebody else is stopping him or her.
“Human rights? What human rights? We are practicing what is right according to our religion.”
Can anybody argue with that?
Habeas corpus procedure is applicable in a High court by way of a writ requiring a person under custody to be brought before the court ,for the court to look into the legality of such custody. Omy gosh custody in civil or criminal court may involve another round of mulberry bush.
Lord Reid did not go wrong but some one else did it /tampered.
Under the not-so-recently passed U.S. Patriots Act, the writ of habeas corpus is suspended for a person classified as ‘enemy combatant’.
“It was mentioned in the alJareeza documentary that if religious freedom was allowed for the Malays, they would be finished as a race.†HJ Angus
I don’t think so. Then you will have malay muslims, malay buddhist, malay hindu and many more. Since there are non-malay who converted to Islam, I don’t see why not. And believe me Malaysia will be a much better place to love in. We will be the most peaceful nation on earth then. Maybe.
Yeah I wasn’t sure about the “l” in recuse and didn’t bother to check.
I agree with dawsheng’s last 2 sentences (without maybe).
As for the rulers, we do respect them when they display their better side – eg Raja Zarith in the recent floods and Raja Nazrin on Malaysia for all.
Maybe good leadership is such a rare commodity in Malaysia.
using force, instead of open discussion. who are this people! who gave them the authority to do such things. where the hell is PM, DPM, MPs! what’re they going to do about this?… are they to busy at IJOK talking cock again!
i feel so so sorry for that family.what this mca,mic ,gerakan,doing shame on u u cant do anything for the poor people. leave bn umno join DAP, PKR with u will make the different for the people of malaysia.than we will be strong and show this umno we are not weak.all malaysian please pass the words .our country are not good any more,we have to fight for our people.malaysia for all races.god bless all of us.
Goodbye, Pak Leh Hadheri, and good riddance Go enjoy your yacht and perth palace
http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/newsncom.php?itemid=4137
–THIS IS THE FUTURE WE WANT–
http://jelas.info/2007/04/21/ijok-nomination-pictures-debunk-the-spin/
everyone should take a peep on this website. This is what we want for ourselves and our future generation. After viewing this website I have 2 reactions:
1. I feel watery in my eyes because I finally see some chance and hope.
2. I laugh until I almost pee… why?? take a look by yourself.
Racial disputes!
Religious disputes!
This all part of UMNO marginalising the minority.
Those so called learned scholars still don’t get the simple fundamental of practicing religion. What is the point of being called a Muslim, if you don’t practice one’s faith with one whole heart and mind? Moreover what one do spiritually, he or she is only answerable to his/her God and not to human. Are they “the scholars ” so perfect and pure? Do they not sin?
“Then you will have malay muslims, malay buddhist, malay hindu and many more. ”
Malays like the Javanese and the Balinese were Hindus before Islam reached its shores and won converts. Many Javanese and Balinese are still Hindus. Indonesia should be admired for practicing religious freedom – although there have been religious persecution of Christians in parts of Indonesia but these mostly involve Chinese Indonesians. The mass killings in 1997/8 were more due to hatred for the Chinese – a racial issue rather than a religious one.
Aljazeera is right when it says Malays as a race would be finished if religious freedom were allowed in Malaysia.
The definition of a Malay can be found in Article 160(2) of our Constitution. But it appears in the section dealing with ‘definitions’ along with other terms. Unfortunately, its exclusive nature has been exploited by our politicians to justify their policies of discrimination – and needless to say, suppression and oppression.
Noticing about the incidents happening around the world, you certainly would come to the conclusion that these type of people are:
self-righteous (they are often right),
aggressive (like JAIS),
arrogant (like the previous UMNO general assembly),
inhumane(like suicice bombing),
violent (like Southern Thailand and Philippines)
outspoken rudely (like the one in Australia saying women are covered meat…).
During the 2 decades of ruling Malaysia, Mahathir was also not working well to reduce corruption. There was no big fish caught under his ruling.
His ruling had created generation like Mat Rempit as well as minister who held keris sword and Oxford graduate like Khairy.
Don’t forget Mahathir’s M Project in Sabah where blue ID cards were given out to hundred of thousands illegal immigrant from Southern Philippines (instantly increase the members of UMNO).
///During the 2 decades of ruling Malaysia, Mahathir was also not working well to reduce corruption.///
He was the person who used NEP to make his cronies billionaires. He started the new-era corruption, and to expect him to reduce corruption, we must be joking.
That’s not surprising because we are a nation of jokers!
Malaysia Boleh. Islam Hadhari Boleh
testing. sometimes i cant post
Loh: yes, Mahathir is the most corrupted leader as well as cunning and yes outspoken to point at others but not himself.
The KLIA alone had awarded his son’s Prime Granite Sdn. Bhd. in Sungai Petani more than RM20 million of granite stone supplies.
Using the mechanism of the judiciary to ‘Islamise’ people, or to prevent them from leaving the religion is unreasonable. See here:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/5/1/focus/17565700&sec=focus
What can I say? It is sad when one is forced or told that one’s religion is such and such. Where is the freedom of choice? If one is born of one religion and converts to another…is it wrong? Don’t we have the right to do so as a human? Or is it forced down our throats. Is that practice militant?
Where is the beauty of freedom of choice what to believe? Can parents give their children that freedom? Or are they bound by law not to do so? Is law a yoke that weighs down a person?
Aren’t laws and rules made for justice to reign? What is reigning now – pressure?
Is it wrong to voice out our concern over this issues? Why do we all have to see Islam as a religion that puts pressure on her followers? Where is mercy and kindness?
Can one convert from Islam to Christianity or any other religion? Why is it seen as apostasy? Why that does not happen to any other religion? Why are the converts punished or have their rights snatched?
Really can any Malay be a Malay and not a muslim? Why MUST a Malay be a muslim? Isn’t it forced down their throat? Is this just?
In Indonesia, a Indonesian can be either Malay or Christian or free, no problem. They marry freely and no problems. Many Malaysians look down on Indonesians but Indons have more kindness in this aspect. Mind you it is the highest population of Muslims.
So are we really a free country – you tell me!
Somehow I feel people are fighting for their God which only goes to show that perhaps their God must be weak and must be defended for and protected…do you get that feeling? Strange, isn’t it? Can God be allowed to fight for Himself? After all He is Almighty and I believe He is also all Loving unlike wicked human beings!