I have today sent an urgent fax to the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi asking for a meeting with DAP MPs and leaders on pressing sensitive issues of national unity, religion, family and human rights highlighted by recent heart-rending controversies like the Subashini, Revathi and Marimuthu cases.
There are great and increasing concerns in our plural society about inter-religious tolerance and harmony as illustrated by the recent week-long prayers by Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and Taoists to seek divine intervention to spread awareness of the importance of upholding the fundamental provisions of the Malaysian Constitution with regard to Article 11 on freedom of religion and Article 4 on the Constitution as the supreme law of Malaysia.
In a written reply to the DAP MP for Ipoh Barat, M. Kulasegaran on Wednesday, Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department, Datuk Nazri Aziz said that the Prime Minister had an open attitude and discussed matters of religion with religious-based non-governmental bodies. It is in this spirit that we are asking for this meeting with the Prime Minister.
Ever since the founding of the nation, Bapa Malaysia and the first Prime Minister of Malaysia, Tunku Abdul Rahman, set the example of an open, tolerant and accommodative attitude on religious rights and sensitivities which had spared the multi-religious country from religious conflict, discord and even misunderstanding in the best part of half-a-century of nationhood.
If Tunku Abdul Rahman is still alive, I am sure he will be the first to be very distressed by the spate of heart-rending cases affecting religion which split up families — in the Marimutu case, the couple had been married for 21 years with seven children – apart from causing inter-religious strain and national disunity as well as giving Malaysia a bad name internationally.
During the winding-up of the committee stage debate on the 2007 Supplementary Budget on Wednesday, Nazri said that the Attorney-General is working on a mechanism to discuss contentious issues relating to religion and conversion without affecting racial unity in the country.
He said such a mechanism was necessary because sensitive issues like religion could not be discussed “arbitrarily” as it involved religious sensitivity and the rights of ethnic groups. He said even Parliament was not the appropriate place to discuss sensitive issues.
He urged everyone to be patient and to wait for the mechanism that was being prepared by the AG’s Chambers.
If Nazri is serious about his call to everyone to be patient until the Attorney-General Chambers have come up with such a mechanism, he should take all necessary actions to ensure that families which had been split up by controversial actions of state religious departments could be re-united until such a mechanism is in place.
In Revathi’s case, her 100-day detention for Islamic rehabilitation at the Faith Rehabilitation Centre in Ulu Yam had been extended for another 80 days by the Malacca Syariah Court on the ground that “she did not co-operate during the 100-day detention”, prolonging her forced separation from her husband and 15-month baby daughter.
It is shocking that Malaysia has a new form of ISA-like powers of detention which could be extended indefinitely.
Nazri’s contention that Parliament is not the appropriate place to discuss these spate of issues impinging on religious rights and sensitivities cannot go unchallenged.
No one single Minister, even if he is assigned to be in charge of parliamentary affairs on behalf of the Prime Minister, should decide what Parliament can or cannot do. MPs and the country should be very wary about any proposal that a subject should be regarded as sensitive and be removed from the ambit of Parliamentary debate.
Any decision that Parliament should not debate sensitive religious issues should only be made by a proper consensus of Parliament, not just majority of the Barisan Nasional MPs but also with the agreement of Opposition MPs.
DAP MP for Bukit Mertajam Chong Eng has given notice to move an emergency motion to debate the Revathi case on Monday.
Parliament should set an example to Malaysians that it is capable of debating sensitive issues concerning national unity, religion, family unity and human rights in a sober, rational and responsible manner
DAP MPs give a public undertaking that they will be sober, rational, responsible and unemotional in the debate in Parliament to address very real issues affecting Malaysians on religious rights and sensitivities, family unity and values, human rights and national unity — and we urge Barisan Nasional MPs to make a serious commitment likewise to prove that Parliament is relevant to the people’s concerns and capable of rising to the occasion to have a responsible and mature debate on these sensitive issues.
hi YB Kit,
Hope you are successful in getting this debate into the parliament and ultimately reunite the families that were broken up because goons masquerading as religious authorities …
Let no crime be conducted in the name of the Almighty GOD …
Kit, may I take this opportunity to thank you and Karpal for handling this case affecting our Hindu friends. MIC have often boasted how well they represented the Indians but when it comes to the crunch, like the Chinese would say, even their shadows can’t be seen. Samy is a total disgrace to the Indian community.
And despite that the Indian community have “penalised” by the authorities any other day, I wonder, what in God’s name the Indians of Ijok still support the BN. This is a tacit approval to UMNO to say it is OK for them to demolish Hindu temples, snatch dead bodies, hide the truth of the Kg Medan incident and separating families because of the system screwup. It is no wonder UMNO is getting away with it.
Until there is a clear separation of State and religion, religion will continue to be explioted for political and personal gains.
If Tunku is still alive he would be dead within 10mins after getting to know how AAb and his konco2 are running the country and draining it dry.
Mr. Lim,
Could you furnish us with Samy Vellu’s email address? I ,on my part, would like to write a leter of appeal to him to help those poor folks detained.
Then coming to this rehabilitation of the poor mother.
Do you think that by forcing the mother to convert to Islam reasonable? The mother can just bullshit those stupid officials by saying that she repent just to get out.Once, out she will thank her gods in Hindu temples more than ever before for her fredom!
Now, who bear the sins for her bluff?
It is those ulamas who bear the sin. You forced her to bluff, she does la!
What is the purpose of seeing the PM. He will entertain you but want can he do? He is impotent and does not have any clout to impress his views upon the religious bigots in the country.
In fact he could have acted on all these cases on his own accord – without being told to do so. Why didn’t he?
I remember he called the Trengganu MB to stop moral policing.
Looks like if you want to get out of islam, the only way out is to leave the country. Otherwise you will be hounded and harassed and send for brainwashing.
Keep on fighting for us, DAP.
“If Tunku Abdul Rahman is still alive, I am sure he will be the first to be very distressed ….†LKS
Tunku would not only be distressed but turning in his grave over many of the issues.
About Veerapan’s wife being in detention, he would say, “Biaq lah dia balek ka anak anak dia, ka suami dia. Ini bukan soal ugama tapi soal saorang yang berugam Hindu. Dia seorang ibu yang berugama Hindu. Biar lah dia balek. Tak baik!â€Â
This reflects the simplicity of the man who in his life never sought to impose his personal views on others – never a religious bigot. His attitude is one of “live and let liveâ€Â. What’s more there is none of the hypocrisy you now get to see and read about UMNO leaders today. He lived his life the way he thought he should. He believed racial harmony should be practiced rather than just talked about. He went out, for example, to adopt Chinese children as his own and over the years built up his extended family based on principles of racial harmony.
He looked upon the country he led as his own extended family. So when the race riots broke out in 1969, he took it personally and was emotionally overcome by the events he thought he would never live to see. He saw his dreams disintegrated before him, his life’s work going up in smoke and stunned at the sheer waste in human lives. He broke down in tears, retiring into the security of his study, turning to prayers to help him understand the events. He took it very personally.
Can anyone today see that happening to any of the leaders in UMNO??
Would the Tunku be shocked at the way religious fundamentalism has gripped this nation to the point where religious officials would enter your houses, detain people and sending young boys and girls to detention centers, snatch bodies from their mortuaries and graves to be buried or reburied in places their own families had no control over, and splitting up husbands from the wives and wives from their children who needed their mother??
“Shock†would be an understatement. He would be turning in his grave.
“He told the Dewan Rakyat that the mechanism would enable sensitive issues, especially those concerning religion, to be discussed without affecting racial unity in the country.” NST
What ‘mechanism’ could that be?
We need to stop this politicization of not only education but also religion. It is that simple. There is no need to walk the fine line.
We need opposition like DAP to support our “reason” or the decency to live in Malaysia. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORKs GENTLEMEN.
100 readers took a poll on my site and most felt that the Muslim judges sitting in a secular court failed in their duties.
Maybe we should get Parliament to pass a motion of no confidence in these judges.
http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/04/only-7-feel-that-islam-is-fair-religion.html
Just look at the religious conflicts going on in Iraq now. If the foreign troops leave suddenly all hell will break lose. Of course the USA and their allies have in a way precipitated the chaos when they removed Sadaam Hussein who was keeping everyone under his control.
“Nazri said that the Attorney-General is working on a mechanism to discuss contentious issues relating to religion and conversion without affecting racial unity in the country.”
The AG was also tasked with the IPCMC implementation and more than a year later has yet to come out with anything.
Lina Joy’s case has been languishing for umpteenth months.
We will be lucky if this highly sensitive religious matter see the light of day from the AG’s office
the rights of ordinary msians are being trampled and our livelihood sucked dry by lop-sided concessions & privatisations, and this joke of a PM is already trying to talk about 2057…
he can’t even reel-in the extremists, ultras and zealots who are growing increasingly greedy
Uncle Kit
Does Pak Lah read your fax?
Cheers
To where did u fax the letter? Dont forget the other day he also didnt read ur letter and was so blur when questioned.
Make sure u fax to Perth and not Putrajaya.
Or can fax to the cabin crew of his private jet so they can show it to him. More effective.
If Tunku were alive today, he will probably commit suicide knowing how the Malays have degenerated into a race that believes that having special rights is a god given gift, getting into universities with higher priviledge but could only find a pasar malam job upon graduation.
He would have regretted flying to London to pursue the independance of Malaya
Goddamn it!
[deleted]
Dear all fellow Malaysian, we have had enough of these nonsense.
The time is right to remove the “umno control bn” out.
Tell everyone you know and start our own election campaign now. We must fight back to bring real democracy to our beloved country and let Tunku .A. R rest in peace.
50 years is ENOUGH
Vote For A Change
Vote For Any Opposition
Give Them A Chance To Change For A Better Malaysia
Remember bn Is A Useless Grouping Of Self Serving, Corrupt, Dictator, Power Crazy, Racist, Kris waving, etc, etc type of parties.
To all voters in IJOK,
VOTE FOR KEADILAN!
Show Pak Lah that we are really fed up with his style of administration.
To the Indians, wake up! Look at the number of scandals involving body, child snatching among Hindus!!!
I completely disagree with you, Mr. Lim.
The only non-racist in UMNO was the founder, Sir Datuk Onn Jaafar himself. He had sought to turn UMNO from communal politics to inclusive politics. He was thwarted, and, Tunku did belong to faction that advocated malay supremacy and the position of Islam.
I doubt that Tunku would’ve been distressed. I doubt he could’ve even cared. Remember that today’s leaders are nothing more than a resulting product of their predecessors.
Well, as they said – Ini bapak aku punya. It all belongs to ME, I, MYSELF. Left pocket into right pocket. It happens in broad daylight. From duit kerajaan (PEOPLE’s MONEY) – it goes into cronies pocket.
I would say.
REDUCE THE MAJORITY.
And it starts from Ijok.
YB Kit I am not so sure of what you said is true. Those bunch of foxes in the government will be able to bring Tunku to agree with them. They will do everything to achieve what they want. Look at some of the former Semangat46 guys. Once they are in UMNO, their character metamorphosised except Datuk Shahrir Samad who sticks to principles but was sacked as Backbenchers Club chairman.
In addition I have to agree to what “bhuvan.govindasamy” says: Tunku was the founder of the problem we inherited today. If only Datuk Onn had been successful in his party, chances are that we will be like Singapore as she will still be in Malaya. Instead we are not only far behind but the nons are blessed to be second or third class citizens. The Tunku might not have this intention but he is the inventor of this race divide.
Maybe we are destined to be in this position because at that time we do not have any capable Chinese leaders who is intelligent enough to forsee all these.
Dear voters of IJOK. The voters of Machap had ben lured by the handouts of the ugly BN. Do not let this happen to you. Show the world that you are not easily bribed and your head is more powerful than your heart. It is no point of putting up banners to thank PKR after the BN has won as these will only give them more bullets to be more corrupted and abuse of power. The “Zakaria Mansion” is only a tip of the iceberg of abuse of powers and corruption..
Never have I heard of such things after 50 yrs of independence. We are in a ‘time bomb’ unless qualified MPs , those with substance, far sighted, having a Malaysian mentality, the ‘better brains’, MPs with highest sense of integrity, the unblemished, the best are elected into the government.
I thought we have matured as a nation to understand sensitivities of others and the pain of separation of families (on the ground of religion). This is akin to the atrocities of brutal governments in the second world war and the cold war period.
The majority should not suppress the minority.
///in the Marimutu case, the couple had been married for 21 years with seven children -///
The action of the few officials from the Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor would at best increase the number of Muslim by eight persons. Was that the objective of the department to increase the number of practicisng muslims?
Article 11 of the Federal Constitution says that Every person in the Federation has the right to practice his religion. Article 11 did not specify whether the person, in this case, the wife of Marimutu and her seven children, need to have any qualification to practice the Hindu faith. To force the wife of Marimutu and her seven to practice muslim faith, the officials were acting against the Federal constitution. And as the activities of JAIS are against the constitution, then JAIS is unconstitutional.
Saudara
The constitution is very clear + precise. If judges whom are muslim + can’t judge on a clear cut case. Just resign. Let someone else who is decent enough to say 1 + 1 = 2, to take over.
2020? How on earth can we ever reach there?
The PM is busy to meet lah.
DAP has no big voice and many MPs to meet. DAP should join with other opposition parties to meet.
DAP should ask quietly MCA, MIC and Gerakan to meet PM.
“To force the wife of Marimutu and her seven to practice muslim faith, the officials were acting against the Federal constitution. And as the activities of JAIS are against the constitution, then JAIS is unconstitutional.” Loh
The issue is simply one of jurisdiction. Because she was once a Muslim or one of her parents was, she remains under the jurisdiction of the syariah court. She will need to appear before this court for its decision.
As for JAIS or bodies like it, the fact that their activities go against the letter or spirit of the written Constitution does make JAIS or bodies like it, unconstitutional.
omission ‘not’ – sorry
“The majority should not suppress the minority.” FirstMalaysian
‘Democracy’ is defined by some as the tyranny of the majority over the minority.
“Lina Joy’s case has been languishing for umpteenth months.” Cinapek
The Federal Court is perfecting their written judgment. The decision is aimed to preserve the status quo.
For those who feel that judges look at the facts, apply the law to the facts and then make their decision are being naive. It does not happen that way. What actually happens is judges make whatever decision they think is just and equitable, then search for the legal reasoning to arrive at the conclusion which they have made.
What this means is that Lina will be denied her joy – yet again.
“Maybe we should get Parliament to pass a motion of no confidence in these judges.” HJ Angus
If this were possible then we would have executive tyranny – besides making a mockery of the doctrine of separation of powers.
How muslim think? Are muslims not the same as non muslims? Are muslim more superior than others? In what way? Because Islam is the truth? But what about other people’s truths? Are they not true to muslim?
I see no truth in violating human rights. I see cruel muslims committing inhuman actions against non-muslims, tearing a family apart, which is a sin by any standard, is it not Islam sin?
The family must be release from torture and reunite as soon as possible.
I have a question regarding lina joy-type cases :- in the Pinochet case here in the UK, Lord Hoffmann’s link to Amnesty International led to a House of Lords decision being set aside, clearly based upon fears of possible (not necessarily real) biasness. Upon this argument, Federal Court judges who are Muslim may potentially be excluded from ruling. But clearly non-muslin judges would also be in position to be biased. What do you guys think? Is this a non-issue? Or is this matter non-justiciable, and thus be relagated to Parliament.
‘Upon this argument, Federal Court judges who are Muslim may potentially be excluded from ruling. But clearly non-muslin judges …”
It does not necessarily lead to bias.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Federal Court decision on an earlier case which involved the “Kelantanese Four” (reduced to three when one died in prison). If I remember correctly the justices were not of one mind. What happened was the justices avoid having to make their decision. According to them it was a matter for the high court and the syariah court.
Let’s see what they have to say this time round!
The justices will interpret the constitutional provisions one way, and if that does not conform with the interpretation intended by the parliamentary draftsman, Parliament can always have the articles amended.
BN has two-third control, remember?
///The issue is simply one of jurisdiction.///–undergrad2
If the jurisdiction lies with the Syariah court does it mean that it has to follow the teaching of Islam, and the provision of the constitution is not applicable. When it follows the teaching of Islam, then it there a universal islamic rule applicable to all, or would it be based on the rule of each state, since the rulers are the head of the Islamic religion in each state. It has been said that Muslims in Turkey are free to change their religious belief, and that it is not the case here.
///Because she was once a Muslim or one of her parents was, she remains under the jurisdiction of the syariah court.///–undergrad2
According to report she was adopted by the family where one of them was a muslim. Is the classification not based on biological parent?
“If the jurisdiction lies with the Syariah court does it mean that it has to follow the teaching of Islam, and the provision of the constitution is not applicable.” Loh
You’re here putting the cart before the horse! Like I said, the problem is one of jurisdiction until and unless our constitution says otherwise.
“Is the classification not based on biological parent?”
This is a matter that has to be resolved by the syariah court. Civil courts do not have jurisdiction.
All things said the problem is still over jurisdiction. Which court has jurisdiction? Like all things political, the solution must also be political – otherwise it ends in an impasse like what are seeing.
I personally feel that while this is clearly an issue of jurisdiction, the nature of these cases seems non-justiciable. Parliament is the only forum capable of resolving this issue.
If the Syariah court hears the case, does it have to follow the constitution, or just follow Islamic law? If Islamic laws, which one?
Again you are putting the cart before the horse!
It remains one of jurisdiction.
As to which is more supreme, this is one issue that concerns Parliament and the Constitution. Students of Malaysian politics have long debated the theory of the supremacy of the Constitution (which some say is only a legal fiction) and that of Parliament. Syariah courts, I submit, have never been part of that debate.
“..the nature of these cases seems non-justiciable. Parliament is the only forum capable of resolving this issue.” Slashed
Don’t know what you mean by ‘justiciable’ here but I can agree with you that the forum to discuss and debate and resolve this issue would be Parliament.
But having said that, the problem here is that Parliament thinks or would like us to think that the problem has nothing to do with the law or the constitution but only its interpretation – otherwise they would have suggested by their own volition to amend the Constitution.
The balance of power favours the BN run government. There will not be an amendment to the Constitution one way or the other so long as the government is run by BN. The lack of clarity or the presence of such inherent ambiguities in the law ordinarily would have prompted Parliament to ‘plug the holes’ so to speak through a re-drafting of the relevant law or laws. In this case with a judiciary heavily under its influence, they feel there is no need to start a national debate on ‘religious freedom’ or the jurisdiction of the syaiah courts – both sensitive issues closely connected to a host of other issues.
Let us wait to see the Federal Court decision in the case of Lina Joy.
The Sultans are the guardians of Islam. in the country. To whom can non-muslims turn to when their religious rights are being abused? Is there any avenue besides submitting to Syariah law, as urged by the Court?
Good question.
You have the correct interpretation of the law when you say, “Sultans are the guardian of Islam” – each in their own state, I might add.
To the extent there is a conflct between syariah law and civil law, such conflict will have to be resolved in favor of the constitutional rights of non-Musliims. The Constitution is supreme and any law that conflicts with constitutional law is null and void. That is clear.
Meanwhile, syariah courts have jurisdiction over matters pertaining to the religion of Islam. These courts still have jurisdiction over such matters and until they relinquish that jurisdiction, this problem will never be resolved.
It appears that these courts are reluctant to relinquish their jurisdiction for obvious reasons. They have a vested interest in seeing that Islam wins converts – not lose them.
So where do we go from there?? We look to the electoral process for change.
That is my 2-cents.
Undergrad2
A ‘non-justiciable’ issue is an issue which the court may have jurisdiction to rule upon (ie the issue in this case – whether or not it has jurisdiction), but due to the circumstances of the case (sensitive religious issues, or political etc), the court will not make a decision. The key point here is that the court recognizes that the issue, while legally they may rule upon it, they choose not to, for they realise that they may be not be the suitable place to resolve the issue.
That is how i remember it anyway – hehe, been awhile since I touched my public law book.
I agree with you that Parliament, or at least BN (or UMNO specifically) would like us to think of it as a problem of interpretation. And with BN majority, I won’t count on our rights being protected.
But the key point is that by ruling the matter non-justiciable, parliament has to take matters into their own hands whether they like it or not – less they leave a black hole in the judicial machine. Even if parliament ‘decides’ against Lina Joy (and other cases of the sort), the matter had fallen into their lap; they can’t say ‘well that’s what the court said’. In that case, BN necessarily will have to find a better justification for their argument and not hide behind the Federal court.The outcome may potentially be the same, but the source is different and politically significant.